1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask... 2 ************************* INSTALLED: 6 DEC 86 ************************ 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION 6 PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privately owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is 10 privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which 11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be 12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 13 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the 14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the 15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace 16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 18 ************************************************************ 19 20 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 21 Ah, but Russia doesn't care about the oil itself, what they care about 22 is gaining control over the gulf, and thus control over a major portion 23 of the worlds oil supply. The midEast countries on the other hand are 24 interested in the oil as a way to support their economies, as well as 25 a means to support their bickering amongst themselves, and if the US 26 doesn't provide them the means to support the bickering, then they will 27 turn elsewhere. Russia would be more than happy to help out, and they 28 have different strings attached then the US does. One of those is greater 29 and greater control over the way they run their countries. Then comes a 30 point when they dump the old leaders, and install their own puppets, 31 and another Soviet sattelite is born (what they used to call a colony 32 in the old days). Sure Russia doesn't need the oil (they export the stuff) 33 but who ever said that was what they were after? Heck, they would LOVE to 34 gain control of the mideast oil, it would be great for them. They would 35 have an added source of income by selling the mideast oil which they 36 could very much use to boost their lagging economy. And they would have 37 the added enjoyment of selling it to the western countries while they 38 use the profits to boost arms production, and support to countries 39 that they haven't taken over yet. That as well as gaining a very strategic 40 position in Europe. Oil itself is just a side issue in the mideast thing, 41 it gives the countries reason to do what they want. I would be willing to 42 bet that Russia is working very strongly to get into South Africa. There 43 they could gain control over a major portion of the worlds chromium supply 44 as well as a few other precious metals that South Africa happens to be 45 the home of because of a pecular geological distortion of the land. 46 Again Russia doesn't need the chromium, they are the other exporter of 47 the stuff. But they would love to gain control of it for their own uses. 48 Starting out a fresh disk with more ranting...at the top as they say... 49 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 50 ======================================================================== 51 The Russians aren't interested in oil? That's got to be the dumbest 52 thing I've ever heard. It's the same as saying saying they're not 53 interested in treasure and wealth, because that's what oil is. How 54 could you possibly believe that? It makes no sense at all. 55 Boris 56 ======================================================================== 57 WHO CARES? 58 ################################################################### 59 Up until the Iran story broke Reagan was everybodys hero. He was the 60 most popular president off all time and you fools couldn't say 61 enough good stuff about him. Now that he has his first major set 62 back you turn on him with out mercy. You are all a bunch of vultures. 63 The herd mentality rules. You are a bunch of hippocritical fools. 64 You should be ashamed. 65 66 Harvey 67 ################################################################### 68 69 70 the skin heads will rule the earth 71 -samoan 72 done 73 God I hope so. 74 who says "punks not dead"? kill killKILLmy old mans a fatso but you know he owns this house!troy is a nazi punk! 75 the SAMOAN_ 76 done 77 78 79 will someone list some new bouletin 80 board #'s? 81 82 83 **************************************** 84 samoanizm is the key to our survival 85 *wemust join the skinheads in their 86 revolution. here's what you must do: 87 -by an ax 88 -buy a studded leather jacket 89 -call derek and tell him that your a brther skin head. 90 -and most of all, slam to the 91 ANGRY SAMOANS 92 93 *the SAMOAN_ 94 95 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 96 Oh God Yes. Yes, Yes, Yes. I've already 97 got my ax. My mommy is making me a studded 98 leather jacket. Oh yes. Oh God. How I want 99 to kill. Help me. Help me. Show me the way. 100 I'll do anything you ask. 101 102 Nervil Slambucket 103 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 104 This is so inspirational I just can't believe it. It makes me feel so, well, just so intellectual. Where else could you read 105 such good stuff. 106 107 WHO CARES? 108 ____12/06/86__________________JD 2446771.5205_________16:29:36_PST_________ 109 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 110 111 FOR THE DUDE WHO WANTED BBS NUMBERS THE BEST BBS IN THE WORLD(SOMETIMES) 112 IS I.B.B.S. - 503-292-xxxx 113 THE "FARM BBS" IS COOL TOO IF YOU LIVE CLOSE ENOUGH TO IT TO NOT PAY LONG 114 DISTANCE. FARM BBS 206-264-xxxx. 115 BOTH BBS'S LET YOU DOWNLOAD KILLER SYUFF THE FIRST TIME YOU LOG-ON DUDE 116 AND IT DONT COST A CENT. I THINK THEIR 117 PRETTY RAD AND IF YOU CALL THEM THEN 118 YOULL THINK SO TOO. 119 120 CAN ANYBODY OUT THERE DO A JUDO-AIR 121 OR EVEN A STREET PLANT OR ANY OTHER 122 TRICKS . IF SO LET ME KNOW! 123 (YOULL ONLY UNDERSTAND THAT LAST PART IF YOU SKATE) 124 125 WELL, HAPPY TRAILS 126 127 ()()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()() 128 129 130 `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 131 First, let's get something straight. Russia, in case you haven't heard, is now 132 a net importer of oil. NOT AN EXPORTER. 133 Second, what would happen if Russia got control of the world's oil? Simple, 134 they would get a lot of money. What would they do with it? Spend it? If the 135 y spent it in the U.S. then you have what is commonly known as world trade. 136 This would mean that soon they would become as dependent on foreign 137 manufacturing as we are. Then, it would become even harder for them to blow 138 us up than it is now. Any attempt by them to control our economy would result 139 in the destruction of the economy that is supplying them with products. 140 Some people wonder why we sell grain to the Russians if we are supposed to 141 be enemies. The reason is that since we produce so much grain and other food 142 we are held captive by our own production. We could no more stop selling grain 143 to Russia than we could drop atom bombs on our farms. The same thing would 144 happen to them if they ugained control of the world's oil. Since oil is only 145 vaulable when it is bringing in money they MUST make it available to the largest 146 consumers, namely the U.S. Any attempt to make it less available,i.e. blackmail 147 or raising prices, destroys it's economic efectiveness. If Russia grabbed oil, 148 then told the U.S. that they would no longer allow us to have it, if a world 149 war did not result, within ten years an oil substitute would render all that 150 oil vauleless. 151 152 One other thing, just what vaulable countries has Russia seized within the 153 last twenty years? None. Of course, they got quite a few useful ones right 154 after WWII, but after consolidating those holdings, they haven't picked up 155 any others worth real money. Neither, as a matter of fact, has the U.S.. 156 I would say that with the exception of a small amount of minor posturing 157 that will continue indefinitly, the World Powers are pretty much set. Over a 158 great strech of years, or generations, there will in time come new World Powers, 159 but I think that the era of gigantic changes in World Power is over, killed by 160 the atomic bomb. Historically, economic control of a country usually does not 161 result in direct control of a country. The army still has to move in. 162 ```````````````````````Mr. Interceptor``````````````````````````````````` 163 Is there anything inspirational on this bulletin board? I am new to this 164 form of computing. 165 166 Are there any phone numbers available for information libraries or other 167 information services? 168 allen 169 *************************************************************************** 170 exit 171 O\=<([V2V])>=/O 172 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 173 What countries have Russia taken under its wings? Well, how about Afganistan 174 for starters. Tanks in the streets is usually a pretty good indication that 175 they've decided to do that. Now you may not think that it is a significant 176 country, and from a standpoint of assests there isn't much there, but for 177 Russia it is an important step in gaining control of the area. But to be more 178 direct in a country that maybe even you would consider important, there is 179 of course Cuba. The take over of that country by Castro was a great coup for 180 Russia since it gave them access to a base on our doorstep which they didn't 181 have before. Russia does not have significant imports of oil from western 182 countries. If you consider the transport of oil from their satelite countries 183 as import, then yes, they import oil, I personally don't consider that 184 importing, I consider it more along the lines of moving oil from alaska 185 to the lower 48. As for what they would do with the money, they would do the 186 same thing they have always done, send it on weapons production. Russia has 187 always put greater importance on military strength than we have, diverting a 188 larger portion of their economy to that end than we usually have. As for 189 being dependant on us economically, it's doubtful, if you remember, during 190 the wheat embargo they didn't have any problem at all, they just went elsewhere 191 to buy it. We aren't the only country in the world you know. 192 Also keep in mind the Russia attitude which is to self-reliance, they are 193 very proud of their country and have no intention of letting it ever be 194 compromised. 195 Oh yes, as for oil production, some usful information. It was figured out during 196 the last oil embargo what price oil had to get to to trip transfer to another 197 source. At $1.50 a gallon it becomes cost effective to mix alcohol and gas. 198 At $2.50 it becomes cost effective to switch to an entirely new source. 199 While the mideast oil is an important source for the western countries, 200 even if it was cut off totally, there are enough other sources to keep it 201 in the range of alcohol mix pricing, and not a complete substitution. 202 That will change in time, in the not too distant future even the prodigous 203 wells in the mid east will go dry, along with most of the other wells in 204 the world, and that is what will drive the price high enough to trip a 205 conversion to something else. Biggest probablilities are Methane, Alcohol, 206 or Hydrogen. 207 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 208 listen youolitical bozos, do you actually thing that peoople call this board tosee that babbling about russia?! 209 *SAMOAN_ 210 211 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 212 YEA ,, SAMOAN(WHOEVER HE IS) IS RIGHT 213 MAN. NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR DAT STUFF. 214 215 TERMANIL GRAPHICS(RAD)! 216 217 \__________ 218 O O 219 220 SKATEBOARD DUDE! HERES A TOP VIEW! 221 222 |\__/-----\ 223 | | 224 |/--\_____/ 225 WOW MAN THATS HARD TO DO! 226 HERES A RAMP DUDE! 227 228 _____ _____ 229 | \ / | 230 | \ / | 231 | \ / | 232 | \ / | 233 | \ / | 234 | \ / | 235 |__________\_______/__________| 236 237 NOW THATS RAD!(SORTA) 238 239 ........LATER........ 240 ()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 241 *************************************** 242 Ok, you wise guys, why is the mideast so important to anyone? 243 Why not let them alone and kill them- 244 selves off if that's what they want? 245 Good riddence I s ay. What do we care 246 happens to them anyway. What would we 247 want with a stupid desert. I think 248 this whole thing is stupid. 249 *************************************** 250 WHO CARES? 251 252 {I entered about twenty lines of biochemical acid infighting within my mind, 253 and this computer locked up. It lost it, I didn't. I am used to losing control 254 over what I am trying to say, but I had done a good job- And this computer 255 froze. It just sent those words, osmosis, Oil, and it just got real tricky.} 256 257 /\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\ 258 Yaaaj! 259 /\/\/\/\/\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\//\//\\//\\// - Gajarel 260 261 I, the great SAMOAN, need help to get this stupid political crap off the board. 262 I'm looking for loyal punk folowers to 263 revolt with me. 264 *SAMOAN_ 265 266 ################################################################################ NO 267 NO MESSAGES OVER 15 LINES! 268 269 ######################################## 270 to skater dude: 271 272 I think that you would make a good 273 follower. Jump on your board and skate on over! Are you a skate punk or just another skater geek? 274 *SAMOAN_ 275   276 277 278 279 EXPLOITED! 280 punks not dead! 281 --- 282 283 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 284 .-.Skating.away.on.the.thin.ice.of.a.new.day.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.Emu 285 ++++++Trying+to+cope+with+"dead week"++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Milch 286 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 287 288 I AINT A SKATE GEEK(WHAT EVER THAT IS)AND I AINT A SKATE PUNK. 289 I'M A SKATER... PERIOD. AND A GOOD ONEAT THAT... DUDE. 290 SKATING JUST ISN'T A SPORT OR ACTIVITY ITS A WAY OF LIFE. WELL... TO SOME 291 DUDES ITS JUST A SPORT BUT NOT ME. 292 AND IM SORTA ALREADY IN GANG, AND WE ALL SKATE. 293 JUST WHAT IS IT YOU AND YOUR DUDES DO.. KILL INICENT PEOPLE AND KITTENS 294 AND WHATS THE ASTERICK IN FRONT OF 295 YOUR NAME FOR SAMOAN. AND ARE YOU REALLY A TOUGH GANG LEADER OR ARE 296 YOU SOME WUSS WITH THICK RIMMED 297 GLASSES TRYING TO BE ONE. 298 299 300 WELL SKATER DUDE SKATING OFF... 301 302 ()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()(()()()()()()()() 303 If the USSR gets the mideast, we wil be short of oil. $2.50/gallon may be a 304 trigger point, but it'll take years to get decent yields from those alter- 305 native sources. Plus we use oil for a *lot* more than fuel & lubrication. 306 Plastics & fertilizer are important uses. 307 Also with control of the mideast, the USSR would have a *warm-water* port. 308 This is beacoup bad news from a strategic point of view! 309 Finally, if you consider their history, they've got every reason to be the 310 kind of paranoid SOB's they are. (lessee now, Napoleon invades & gets out with 311 heavy losses on both sides. Then I believe they were involved in the Crimean 312 War. Then WW I & the revolution. Please note that the *allies* invaded Russia 313 to try and reverse the revolution! Then the major losses during WW II.) 314 ____12/07/86__________Leonard_JD 2446772.7139_________21:08:10_PST_________ 315 WHO CARES? 316 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzippy 317 Harvey, 318 I am deeply insulted. I have never had a pro-Reagan attitude, and feel the 319 man is not competent to run a country such as this one. 320 321 There, now that that's out, the subject at hand. 322 (seems any world debate topic ends up with the Soviets) 323 The point about the Soviet attitude is absolutely correct. Constant 324 hammering, invasions, and back-stabbing are responsible for the attitude. 325 As for as control of the Middle East, it is indeed a huge strategic 326 advantage to anyone who can claim such control. It would also be cause for 327 World War III. Effective control of such a regoin would criple the US oil 328 supply, alternative sources or not, and would toss such an economic wrench into 329 the machine that the US would be all but forced to take military action. 330 To back this up, most projected scenarios for WWIII assume nasy werkings 331 in the Middle East... Of course, there's also South America... 332 Peace, 333 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzippy 334 O\=<([V2V])>=/O 335 Zzzzzzzzzziipppp: THAT EXPLAINED IT. YOU`RE A REAGAN HATER. YOU'RE THEREFORE 336 A CARTER "LOVER". 337 NMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNM 338 well, people it seems to me that we have 2 different conversations going on 339 here, why don't we join the two 340 together, and converse about mutated 341 samoan potatoes that skate in the middle east. 342 343 344 I skate Natas 345 and I aint no 346 punk, and I aint no 347 geek. what I is, 348 is a BEATLES freak! 349 350 NMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNMNM hippie MNMNMNMNMN 351 SKATE DUDE: WHY DON'T YA JUST PUT ROLLERS TO YOUR COMMODE AND SKATE ON 352 IT ON I-84, I-5, 205, OR 405!!!! TAKE YOUR PICK. 353 `N 354 WHO CARES? 355 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 356 HEY MAN WHOS THE BEATLES FREAK?! 357 358 WELL I BEEN DOIN SOME NEW TRICKS AND TRYIN TO PERFECT'M ALL WEEK AND I 359 THINK I GOT'M PRETTY WELL DOWN. 360 361 THE DUDES I KNOW WHO SKATE WITH ME ARE TRYIN'M TOO MAN. DUDES!! ANYBODY 362 GOIN TO THE DAVID LEE ROTH CONCERT AT THE COLLISEUM TONIGHT! I HEAR ITS 363 GONNA BE RAD! I MIGHT GO THERE AND TAKE MY BOARD AND SKATE AROUND THERE. 364 365 ANYBODY OUT THERE LIKE SLIME BALL WHEELS? WELL I GOT'M. I ALSO HAVE INDY 366 169 TRUCKS AND BONES BEARINGS. TO TOP IT OFF IV'E GOT A RAD Z BLANK PAINTED 367 BLACK COVERED WITH STICKERS. I GOT GORILLA RIBS ON IT TOO DUDE. 368 369 WELL JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET TO KNOW MY BOARD BETTER. 370 371 ........SEE.YA.DUDES......... 372 I DONT SKATE FOR SATAN I SKATE FOR MYSELF. 373 ()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 374 ____12/08/86__________________JD 2446773.5948_________18:16:29_PST_________ 375 WELL, I TELL YOU KIDDIES WHAT. MR. TRIPPLE FIVE IS BACK IN FULL FORCE 376 WITH HIS NEW DUMP BASE, SO WE BE STEPPIN ON OUT HERE. 377 YOU KIDDIES AINT NEVER GOING TO LEARN. 378 WE DON'T FORGIVE. 379 WE DON'T FORGET. 380 WE ARE THE MAFIA. 381  382 [ 383  384 TELL YOU WHAT 385 386 YA[ 387 THATS RIGHT.... 388 WHO CARES? 389 O\=<([V2V])>=/O 390 ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 391 Of course I don't consider Afganistan a stratigic country. However, one 392 function iit is serving is to keep the Russian generals busy. It looks like 393 Russia is going to be stuck in Afganistan until the last Afgan is dead. 394 Another nice thing that this does is make them a nice crop of enemies in the 395 Mideast, since it is hard for them to cosy up to the oil sheiks while their 396 busy killing people in Afganistan. I see also that you could not come up 397 with any important gains in the last 20 years, thus proving my point. 398 As for Cuba being an important stratigic gain for them, that is not true. 399 Yes, it is located close by, but we have not allowed them to station missiles 400 on Cuba, which they don't need to do anyway, since their missile carrying subs 401 can easily lick anything we have positiioned in silos. They cannot mass a large 402 army on Cuba without us knowing about it, after all troop movements of any 403 serious magnitude won't be able to be completly hidden. Even as a spy and 404 radio intercepting point Cuba is not worth much, since they do the majority 405 of that out of their embassy and U.N. mission in New York. 406 About the only real use Cuba is to them is as a propaganda gain, but after all, 407 fair is fair, our biggest propaganda gain is a divided Germany, one that 408 they cannot equal. 409 A few years ago we did indeed place an embargo on wheat. What good did 410 this do? Nothing. All that happened was that they went elsewhere, and bought 411 AMERICAN wheat from foreign middlemen. We may have not allowed wheat to be 412 sold directly to Russia, but we were still producing it full blast, and it had 413 to go somewhere. Mostly, it ended up in the same place that it had gone before 414 the embargo. 415 As far as Russia spending a tremendous gain of money on arms, this is a 416 statement that has no meaning in the Russian economy. In the U.S., if the 417 pentagon gains 10 million from the government it then goes to 'private' 418 industry and spends it. If the pentagon, and the U.S. government does not 419 have the money, then the arms are not bought. 420 In Russia, if the army wants a new weapon, it gets it. It does not buy it 421 from a company in the country, the Russian bureau of Industry dictates that 422 a factory be built and the weapon be produced. The Russian army does not 423 operate with money, it just decides what it needs and the government directs 424 the country to give it to them. 425 What I am trying to say is that if Russia gained control of the Mideast oil 426 , then sold it to the U.S. then those dollars would be useless unless they 427 were spent OUTSIDE the country. Russia's exported good, oil, would only have 428 value to them if they recieved an import of some kind in return. 429 `````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor```````````````````````````````````` 430 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 431 WELL IM BACK! 432 433 YES ITS THE ONE AND ONLY....SKATER DUDE 434 WELL DONT GOT MUCH TO SAY EXCEPT I DONT 435 KNOW WHAT ALL THIS RUSSIA STUFF IS 436 SUPOSED TO ACCOPLISH. 437 438 / 439 /O 440 / 441 / 442 /O 443 _/ 444 OLLIE! 445 LATER! 446 ()()()()()()()()()()()()()SKATER DUDE()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() 447 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 448 Zippy - Hell, Reagan isn't competent enough to run his own life, let alone 449 a country - of any size. 450 As for anyone gaining control over the mid east (if that would ever really 451 possible - look at Afganistan -) I doubt that it would be cause for WW-III. 452 When the oil embargo of a few years ago hit it caused a lot of people to 453 reevaluate their dependance on one suppier. As such the dependance has been 454 reduced to some extent. It has resulted in the current glut in oil. Also, 455 many of the heavy users have setup alternatives to oil if it comes to that 456 most power companies can now switch to coal if they need to. And also keep 457 in mind that only 30% of the worlds oil supply comes from the mid east. 458 while that is a significant amount, its loss isn't irreplacable. 459 Any way on to the other person. While *you* may not consider Russia invading 460 Afganistan significant, I do. And Cuba very much *IS* an important stratigic 461 gain for Russia. It gives them access to a base in the Western hemisphere 462 that they didn't have before. And once Russia gets a country, it doesn't 463 let it go like America and other western countries have. Poland tries to 464 break away... tanks in the streets. Hungery tires to break away... tanks in 465 the streets. Czechoslovakia...tanks in the streets. And they call *us* 466 imperialistic war mongers.... 467 Cuba serves them as a base for many operations in the western hemisphere, 468 including the continued stiring up of trouble in Central America. This 469 would be VERY much more difficult for them without someone in the area 470 that knows the ropes. 471 And while we are speaking of Germany... Least we forget the near accomplished 472 feat of the takeover of West Berlin by the Russians. Stratigically Berlin 473 has no real value, but politically it is very hot. Tus the end result of 474 a near war with Russia and the walling up of Berlin. 475 To the other guy who made a comment about it being years to tool up for 476 another form of fuel, that's not true. We already know what can be done 477 when you have to. Germany did quite well during WWII with almost no oil 478 imports and still damn near won the war. America too survived on much less 479 domestic oil use than it was used to. A complete shutdown of all oil would 480 be disastorous yet, but that isn't realistic since we still produce a little 481 over 50%-60% of our own oil. That mixed with Alcohol and propane/methane 482 which are easy conversions to make, costing less then $200 in small production 483 quantities per conversion, would serve until a more stable energy form 484 (my bet would be hydrogen) would come up to speed. 485 An odd side effect of all that other countries would be hurt by the loss 486 of food exports by the US, since land use would be diverted from food 487 crops to fuel crops, thus reducing or possibly eliminating the excess 488 food production and thus export. 489 One final sarcastic note to the previous person, While it is true that 490 America works normally on money, when the government wants weapons, it 491 just takes more money out of our pockets to pay us with so they can get 492 their weapons. I don't consider that to be all that much different than 493 the Russian methode where they move people from making cars to making 494 tanks. And they do pay them money in Russia to by the way.... It's just 495 that their economy works a little different than ours does. 496 Of course in America the people can always refuse to pay anymore money 497 towards weapons, so what does the government do? It goes ahead and makes 498 them anyway anad pays for it by printing up more money. That's how the 499 Veitnam war got financed. Our economies may be differently based, but 500 the real end result is the same. 501 To the person who wanted to know where all this leads and why we do it - 502 We do it because it helps us to present our opinions to other people 503 who don't think like us and to see other opinions thus being able to 504 see the world in a way that is different then our own little reality 505 we like to wrap ourselves up in. It is a way to expand the conciousness 506 beyond the limiting bariers of our own eyes and ears. To see the world 507 as others see it. Sure we may not agree with the other person on everything, 508 and maybe we do agree on other things (though what we believe and what 509 we debate may be two different items, I myself like to argue a point 510 simply to see how it feels. Maybe I'll switch over to a different belief 511 after exploring it, or maybe it will reenforce my current belief on the 512 subject, or maybe I'll be left undecided in which case I'll shelve the 513 idea for later evaluation or just forget it if it isn't important.) 514 As to where it all leads... world wise, nowhere. anything I rant and 515 rave about here won't change the world as a whole at all. What it will 516 do though is change how I see the world. My reality is made up of how 517 I see the world. The world as a whole is made up of how everyone in the 518 world see's their own realities. All of that is combined into one world 519 reality of the human race. Which has nothing to do with the world reality 520 of any other inhabitant of this planet say like the ant, which has it's 521 own seperate individual and world realities. 522 So what I am trying to do is to see outside myself, to see how others see 523 the world, by so doing I can expand my own world to include a veiwpoint 524 of others I share this world with and thereby (hopefully) be able to better 525 understand this crazy world we live in. And then maybe I can have an impact 526 on the world, at least my reality of it. 527 A more crude way to look at it is that debate is exercise for the mind. 528 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ fred ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 529 Mr. Interceptor: Sorry, but submarine launched missiles don't have the accuracy 530 to be used against anything much smaller than a city. Thus they are useless 531 against silos. 532 By the way, the problem is that the *sub* doesn't know where it is, not that the 533 missile guidance system is inaccurate. In fact one of the uncertainties 534 in current strategic planning is that while we know very precisely where 535 any given point in north & south America is with respect to any other 536 (down to inches!) and the same goes for Africa/Europe/Asia, we don't know 537 at all accurately where Europe etc are with respect to the Americas! The 538 error is several orders of magnitude greater. This is all due to the fact 539 that the only practical way to tie the two sets of survey grids together 540 would be across the Bering Strait.... and both the US & USSR would rather 541 live with the uncertainty in *their* calculations than remove it from the 542 other side's. 543 Also don't bet on there being no missiles in Cuba. The launch sites were 544 finished. We stopped the missiles from being shipped... then. In the 23 545 years since then any number of missiles could have been moved in. I find 546 it unlikely that they would have done so, but they *could* have. 547 ____12/09/86__________Leonard_JD 2446774.7114_________21:04:28_PST_________ 548 WHO CARES? 549 Such a God-damned nerd! Screw off! No one wants to listen any more! 550 No one cares! 551 ???? how did you all know??? it seems to me that I dialed a know-it-all 552 bored??? Since, you are all seemed to know everything in this world, 553 how would you like to work in the NSC?? and probably make proposals 554 on solving world problems, since some of you even insulted our own 555 highest elected official, dismissing him as "couldn't even manage 556 his own life" how did you know??? have you walk a mile in his shoes?? 557 TELL YOU WHAT.... unless we live united like "ants" as one of you 558 mentioned (by the way, did you know how ants live?) we might as 559 well ........ ... perish!!!! 560 ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 561 I do work in the NSC. 562 ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 563 Interesting, about the uncertainity factor, have you ever heard of 564 Heisenberg? 565 As far as secretly hiding missiles in Cuba, there are only two possible 566 alternatives. First, there are no missiles in Cuba. Second, there are, 567 and we are keeping quite about it because we don't want to stir up 568 trouble. I don't accept the propisition that Cuba has hidden missiles on 569 the island, our military spy system is far too good for that. At any rate 570 , since most of that information is classified, it is stupid to debate 571 detail work since any information we have access to is undoubtedly going to 572 be ten years out of date. After all, do you realize that the Air Force 573 still does not officially admit to using spy sattelites, if that commonly 574 known information is still 'classified' imagine what is still secret. 575 I would prefer to rip up Reagan, it is easier to do and provokes more 576 outraged responses from the punks and conservative rag tag on this board. 577 ````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor```````````````````````````````````` 578 What God-damned nerds! None of you listen to the others. None of you ev 579 care about the others opinions. Its a pathetic & pretentious way to feel 580 smart. Case in point: "I *AM* IN THE NSC" None of you are. Don't fake it. 581 Dont rant and rave here about your poser dreams of importanse. Spare me 582 your idle fantasies, make the world a better place. 583 Stupid nerds... 584 need something to do. instead of ranting tirades towar 585 ds the punks and conservatives on this board. Why don't we all rag 586 tag leftist and commie pinkos organized and support other leftist like 587 Daniel Ellsberg, Abbie Hoffman, Jane Fonda, Amy Carter, Benedict 588 Arnold,etc. etc. What have we got to lose except Golda Meier's panty 589 hose|||||||||..... 590 `MR INTERCEPTOR: "OFFICIALLY ADMIT" ? TO WHOM???? IT'S ALLRIGHT FOR 591 YOU TO RIP UP YOUR PRESIDENT??? AND ADORE THE GREAT PEACEMAKER" MIKAIL 592 JUST LIKE WHAT JONATHAN NICHOLAS DID??? BY THE WAY, NICHOLAS IS ALSO 593 KNOWN AS THE PLAGIARIST OF THE OREGONIAN FISHWRAPPER..... 594 ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` 595 I love it! just a scant 4 hours and already the religious rot is just 596 getting started! 597 To the Unsigned above, I guess you lost your sense of humor at an early 598 age, of course I am not in the NSC. I also guess you don't care much about 599 your own opinions, since you won't leave a handle to which we can refer. 600 Also, it is alright for me to rip up president Reagan. I never voted 601 for him in '80(and I also did not vote for Carter, either) or in '84. 602 I have been totally opposed to 99% of the decisions he has made since he 603 was in office, and knocking him now about this Iran thing is perfectly 604 consistent whith my opinion. If I were in his shoes, I would not expect 605 my opponents to turn hypocrite just because I was caught in the cookie 606 jar. Further, just because I dislike Reagan, does not mean I dislike the 607 American system. Reagan, just because he is president, does not 608 necessairly represent the American people, or the American system of 609 government. Espically now, with the revalations that are coming to light, 610 Reagan has lost any claim he had to representing me. I thought being an 611 American meant being honest, not lying to your friends. Yet this is just 612 what Reagan has done to us, and to George Schultz, for example. 613 Piss on him, and his incompetent administration, I pray that he is rendered 614 helpless before he destroys everything of value 615 ````````````````````````Mr. Interceptor```````````````````````````````````` 616 Zippy- don't be so depressing, at least congress feels SOME money pressure. TOTAL NUMBER OF LINES = 616