Note: I seemed to have screwed up and deleted the whole disk on this one, not leaving the usual opening message. ******************* REMOVED: 11 AUG 84 ******************************** LI FILE ON MARGIN IS 80 STATUS: ENTER ONLY NUMBER OF LINES: 588 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 3 Whaddya know, now I'M at the top..... 4 Mikey, this is the sysop of CBBS/Aloha. I'd like to feature 'back-issues' of BWMS on the modem section of CBBS/Aloha, 5 available for downloading at 1200 baud. This would help prevent the problem of people missing disks if they don't 6 manage to get on every day or so. CBBS/Aloha could easily spare around 250K or so. What do you think? 7 8 ------------------------------------- 9 10 POSSIBLY, SUGGEST YOU CONTACT THE ARCHIVE GROUP FOR ARANGMENTS IF YOUR 11 INTERESTED IN THE OLD BACKUPS. OF COURSE YOUR FREE TO DISEMINATE WHAT 12 EVER BACKUPS YOU GENERATE YOURSELF VIA DOWNLOADS. 13 ****************** CISTOP MIKEY ************************************ 14 ///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\ 15 To the person who stated that you can win over all by smoking 16 joint, you are a total moron ( being nice here ). What has become 17 of BWMS? All this talk, why don't you all talk about your income taxes? 18 That would be better than crime and prostitutes (only you guys could talk 19 about) and other stuff. consider this, "life is unfair!!!" and that ihow 20 it is no atter what you do. still have any complaints? write you local 21 congressmen! 22 ///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\///~\\\/// 23 24 25 -HELLO 26 TO: ERIC O'BRIEN 27 HI ERIC, THOUGHT I WOULD TRY THIS BBS 28 29 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 30 LAISSE-FAIRE, MY FEELINGS ON KILLING ARE BEST SHOWN IN THE BOOK'S OF HARRY HARRI 31 SON(WE'LL SEE IF THAT STIRS UP SOMETHING ) REALLY, TRUE SELF DEFENSE(MURDER IN 32 HOT BLOOD)IN WHICH YOUR LIFE IS OBVIOUSLY IN DANGER, IS A FAR CRY FROM THE 33 MURDER THAT I MENTIONED. ASK THIS, WHAT ARE THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF ARMIES? 34 DEFENSE? COME ON, IN A PEACEFUL WORLD?(ONE NOT IN A WORLD WAR)NO, ACTUALLY THE 35 REAL REASON IS TO MAINTAIN THE ILLUSION OF 'STRENGTH'(REAL OR OTHERWISE). AND 36 HOW IS THIS DONE? BY PUTTING A DIRECT THREAT OF DEATH ON SOMEONE OR SOME COUNTRY 37 NOW, TO ESTABLISH THIS THREAT, ONE NEEDS THE MECHANISIMS OF DEATH, GUNS, TANKS, 38 ETC. SO IT FOLLOWS THAT THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE ARMY IS TO KILL PEOPLE(WHEN O 39 RDERED) ANYONE WHO GETS INVOLVED WITH AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THAT HAS MADE THE 40 DECISION THAT POSSIBLE MURDER BY ORDER IS THE PRICE TO PAY. SO, A SOLDIER HAS 41 (IN MY OPINION)MADE THE DECISION TO MURDER. THIS DECISION IS NOT THE SAME THAT 42 IS MADE WHEN A PERSON IS, SAY, ATTACKED BY A MUGGER. THEN, REFLEX TAKES OVER AND 43 THE INSTINCT TO SURVIVE TAKES PRECIDENCE. DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE? PERSONALLY, 44 IF MY COUNTRY WERE INVADED(THE LOWER 48, NOT ALASKA OR HAWAII) I WOULD CHEERFULL 45 Y JOIN THE RESISTANCE AND BE KILLED. HOWEVER, THAT IS A DECISION OF SELF-DEFENSE 46 I FAVOR WASHINGTONS BRAND OF FOREIGN POLICY, KEEP TO YOURSELF. EVEN IF CANADA 47 AND MEXICO TURNED COMMUNIST, I WON'T FIGHT UNTIL THEY STEP OVER THE BORDER. 48 ALTHOUGH PEOPLE MAY ARGUE ABOUT U.S.'S INTERESTS, IN THE LONG RUN WE DONT NEED 49 ANYTHING THAT WE CANNOT GET FROM EITHER U.S. SOIL OR OUTER SPACE. FURTHER, IN 50 REGARDS TO THE BUDGET DEFICIT, BY FAR THE BULK OF U.S. TAX MONEY GOES OUT IN 51 TRANSFER PAYMENTS. I HAVE A COPY OF THE U.S. '82 BUDGET THAT I WILL POST ON THE 52 BOARD IF ANY CARE(ITS A BREAKDOWN BY SUBJECT)THAT WILL TAKE UP ABOUT 20-30 LINES 53 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++000000001TED++++++++++++++++++++++++ 54 1TED: THE PURPOSE OF THE MILITARY FORCES OF THIS COUNTRY 55 IS TO ENFORCE FOREIGN POLICY. THE DUTY OF ANY MEMBER OF THE 56 MILITARY (REGARDLESS OF RANK) IS OBEDIENCE. THE EFFECTIVE RESULT 57 OF THIS IS TO PROTECT THIS COUNTRY AND IT'S CONCOMMITANT 58 IDEOLOGY, THE FREEDOMS WE HAVE THAT DO NOT EXIST IN SOME OTHER 59 COUNTRIES, IE THE BILL OF RIGHTS FREEDOM OF SPEECH, ASSEMBLY, 60 REDRESS, ETC,ETC, AS OUTLINED IN THE CONSTITUTION. WITHOUT AN EN- 61 FORCED FOREIGN POLICY, WE AMERICANS WOULD BE LEFT WITH TWO 62 ALTERNATIVES: LEARN TO SPEAK CHINESE, OR LEARN TO SPEAK RUSSIAN. 63 THE USSR INTENDS TO CONQUER THE WORLD. THEIR CHANCES OF DOING SO 64 INCREASE PROPORTIONALLY WITH THE PACIFIST QUOTIENT AMPLIFIED BY 65 THE GENERAL PUBLIC DISCONTENT WITH 66 THE BOTTOM LINE ORIENTED ABUSE OF THIS IDEOLOGY, PER PATRICK HENRY 67 :IS LIFE SO DEAR, OR PEACE SO SWEET AS TO BE PURCHASED AT THE 68 PRICE OF CHAINS AND SLAVERY---. 69 THE PROBLEM, THE REASON FOR THE PACIFISM SO INCREASINGLY EXTANT 70 IN AMERICA IS A COMBINATION OF THE "ME GENERATON", AND A LOSS 71 OF FAITH, TRUST IN OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.AT THE ONSET OF OUR DIRECT INVOLVEMENT 72 IN WWII, THE PEOPLE "RALLIED ROUND THE FLAGPOLE", AND "WON" THAT WAR. 73 THIS PATRIOTISM FADED SOMEWHAT IN 1950, IN THE "POLICE ACTION" 74 IN KOREA, AND IT FAIRLY WELL FIZZELED DURING THE VIETNAM "CONFLICT" 75 PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF WAR. I IMAGINE THE TYPICAL RUSSIAN CITIZEN IS LIKEWISE TIRED 76 OF WAR. BUT THE POLITBURO AND THE 77 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE (AND ALL THAT IS BEHIND THEM) APPARENTLY ARE NOT. 78 WAR IS THE NATURE OF MAN.(SUN TZU) AND WE SHALL ALWAYS HAVE THEM. 79 AND SO IT GOES-----. 80 COMMENT ON PIPERS ENTRY ABOUT VICTIMLESS CRIMES: YOU ARE (IN MY 81 OPINION) COMPLETELY RIGHT. EG PROSTITUTION, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN 82 AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE. THE PROBLEM, AS HAS ALREADY BEEN STATED 83 IS THAT NOT ALL PROSTITUTES ARE "WILLING". THERE ARE TOO MANY 84 'HOOKERS' THAT HAVE BEEN FORCED INTO THEIR 'TRADE'. VICTIMS OF GREEDY PIMPS. 85 IF PROSTITUTION WERE TO BE LEGALIZED, AND REGULATED TO SOME EXTENT, AND BY ALL 86 MEANS TAXED! THE ECONOMY WOULD HAVE ONE HELLUVA NEW SOURCE OF 87 REVENUE, LAW ENFORCEMENT COULD 88 MORE EFFECTIVELY DEAL WITH OTHER CRIME, ETC, ETC. ONELAST 89 THOUGHT-SUICIDE. AND ON THIS, I CAN SPEAK FROM (ALMOST) EXPERIENCE. 90 I THINK ANYONE WHO HAS THE OPPOR- 91 TUNITY TO PREVENT SOMEONE FROM KILLING THEMSELVES SHOULD DO SO. 92 (INCLUDING SPECIFICALLY COPS.) 93 I TRIED IT ONCE. FOR REAL. SOMEONE 'SAVED' ME. SHE HAS MY ETERNAL GRATITUDE. 94 YOU SEE, SUICIDE IS LIKE THE DEATH PENALTY (TO WHICH I AM 95 UNALTERABLY OPPOSED). BOTH ARE TERRIBLY FINAL. THERE ARE NO 96 SECOND THOUGHTS, NO 'LATER'.THINK ABOUT ALL THIS. 97 I GUESS I SHOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN UP 98 SO MUCH SPACE, BUT I GET CARRIED AWAY. THE PHANTOM PHILOSOPHER 99 100 101 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 102 >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 103 >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> 104 >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> 105 >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> 106 >>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 107 >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 108 LESS AT A TIME,I BELEIVE 109 AS IT WERE IN THE FLIGHT 110 YOU ASKED FOR MORE,NOW 111 LET'S DECIPHER SHALL WE 112 SINCERLY,OMEGA,OMEGA SIX 113 114 > 115 >> > 116 >>>> > 117 >>>>>>> <<<<< 118 <<<<< >>>>> 119 <<<<< >>>>> 120 <<<<<>>>>> 121 <<<<>>>> 122 <..> 123 PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP 124 Just a quick note ... suicide attempts should be thwarted, yes indeed. 125 126 However, the attempt should not place the person who attempted the act open 127 to criminal prosecution. Unless I am mistaken, in many states a failed 128 suicide attempt can land you in prison. Could that be interpreted as an 129 incentive to succeed? Please correct me if I am not up to date on the law. 130 Frank -- I assume that your entry was the last on the last disk. I agree 131 with much of what you say, however I disagree that man is a herd animal. 132 Man is by nature an omnivore, and does indeed have some herding instincts, 133 however it is not unusual for rouge members of the species to prefer a 134 solitary existence. We have invented many means of social control to 135 reinforce the weak instincts that still drive us. It is difficult to tell where 136 these vague instincts end and social conditioning begins. An example of how 137 normal social conditioning can be erased is military basic training. Here, 138 young males are penned up together, conditioned to total obedience in a 139 bland and colorless environment, subjected to continuous regimentation that 140 elicits a belief that their individual worth is measured by others. 141 Unfortunately, any military man will tell you that a troop of green recruits 142 is nearly useless as a fighting force. To be a useful tool, they must be 143 blooded -- placed in the field under hostile fire -- kill and be killed. 144 This final breaking of the social taboos changes a raw recuit into a valuable 145 soldier. Once changed into a blindly obedient killer, the young male is now 146 controlled by a system set up to keep him rigidly controlled even after leaving 147 the service. 148 pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp 149 PIPER: TRUE. BUT THEN TOTAL OBIDIENCE IS NECESSARY IF ANY 150 MILITARY UNIT IS TO FUNCTION AS A TEAM, 'WORK' TOGETHER, DEPEND 151 UPON EACHOTHER, ETC. ANALOGOUS TO A FOOTBALL TEAM---. AS I UNDER- 152 STAND IT, A PERSON WHO ATTEMPTS SUICIDE MIGHT BE HELD FOR PSY- 153 CHIATRIC OBSERVATION, AND UNDER 154 SOME CONDITIONS, KEPT AT SOME 155 FACILITY FOR THE MENTALLY ILL, IF IT IS BELIEVED THEY WILL CON- 156 TINUE TO BE DANGEROUS TO THEMSELVES, MAYBE. MORE LIKELY 157 THEY WILL SIMPLY BE RELEASED, AND REFERRED TO SOME MENTAL HEALTH ORGANIZATION 158 ON AN OUTPATIENT BASIS. ALMOST NEVER WOULD SUCH A PERSON BE SENT 159 TO PRISON. DO YOU REALLY PLAY THE PIPES? THE PHANTOM PHILOSOPHER 160 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^ 161 PIPER: Would not a suicide attempt be attempted murder ? Just 162 a passing thought, not really relevant. 163 I think legalizing prostitution and marijuana fall in 164 the same category. Both are going to happen anyway, 165 so why not at least make them safe and taxable ? 166 167 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$ Laissez-faire $^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^ 168 169 ;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;- 170 Suicide? Prostitution? Murder? Hmmmmm sounds the local, national and 171 international news being discussed here. While my usual blitherings may not 172 interest you here's a thought or two on said subjects: 173 1. Suicide is a crime, this is true. But the true Utopian would tell you it 174 is a noble gesture on the part of the individual to the whole of society. 175 Considering the world today, it's understandable that some folks feel lost 176 and have no where to turn to. I once quite seriously considered this "option" 177 and was fortunate enough to have had a friend who talked me down. It is a 178 thing that is not easily contemplated, there's so much you don't realise. 179 I recommend that anyone thinking about it call a friend, and if you can't 180 do that then wait for the sunrise and realise that you CAN make it through 181 another. I did. 182 2. I ALSO PREFER TO CLASS MURDER INTO TWO AREAS: ACTIVE AND PASSIVE. 183 MY BASIC PHILOSOPHY HAS ALWAYS BEEN: YOUR FREEDOM ENDS AT THE TIP OF MY 184 nose. Should a person murder wantonly, we should do our utmost to bring 185 him/her to justice. To me this means a death sentence. To kill because the 186 life of someone you love is endangered or your own self is put under duress 187 isn't a sin. You shouldn't be punished for surviving. Mankind has been doing 188 it for few centuries and as whole I say that wev'e not gone down the tubes 189 yet. 190 3. As for national defense and ARMIES being there for the expressed purpose 191 of murder. Obviously you haven't read the newspaper lately. I usualy adhere 192 to the rule of "Believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear" 193 WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS AND SUCH, BUT I CAN'T HELP NOTING THAT, WHILE THE 194 "ENEMY" has amassed great quanities of arms, ammunition and militia he has 195 made no attempt to usurp our borders. This is due in a large part to the 196 armed forces of our nation. The key to defense is that it's ready, willing 197 and waitng.(at least, I hope it is) Without our trained"killers" you and 198 i might not exist now. Or if we did it would either be goose step city or 199 A SLAVE LABOR CAMP. I'M NOT ONE TO RATTLE SABERS, BUT I DO FEEL IT'S OUR 200 best bet for now. 201 ;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;- 202 jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 203 BW is looking great. I don't know how to reply. Anyway, as people are 204 talking about contempleting suicide, I think I'll add a statistic. 60% 205 of all persons surveyed at least contempleted suicide in the last month. 206 We all have our down times when we feel as if we would like to no longer 207 continue to live. A suicidal person might be enjoying life a week later. 208 Suicidal people should be given emotional help to overcome depression. How 209 do you people feel on euthenasia [SIC?]? 210 The Ninja 211 jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 212 TO "TED"; 213 I REALY DO EPRICIATE ALL THE TIME YOU WASTED ON PRINTING ALL THAT 214 JUNK, BUT THAT HAS GOT TO BE THE LONGEST "20-30" LINES I HAVE EVER SEEN!!! 215 I HIT "DOWN 30" AT LEAST 5 TIMES, AND WAS STILL IN YOUR MESSAGE, I THINK 216 POLLITICKS (?) HAVE A PLACE; IN THE TRASH, OOOPPPSSS, I MEAN IN WASHINGTON 217 OH WELL, SAME DIFFRENCE I GUESS. NOW I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT CAUSED ALL 218 THAT MUMBO-JUMBO IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!? 219 THANK YOU, 220 THE MARTIAN MAN 221 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/ 222 223 Jello all,I feel I must add my .000002 cents worth. 224 WAR:What is preventing Russia from taking over things like Sweden? The U.S. 225 of course, there must be a deterant force, be it trained killers or missiles. 226 My first wife went into the army thinking that she would be back in a year 227 or two. They turned her into a trained killer and now that she is back, 228 she is so alien to me that it hurts to be around her. I am in favor of the 229 mechanical deterants rather then the foot solder. 230 On prostitution and dope:in Nevada, it is legal 231 and nobody can complane about it, her it is illeagal and thats all they can do. 232 Dope has been around sence the earliest civilizations, it was made illeagal 233 by the FDA when heroin and morphine were made prescription. When states figure 234 out that they can make BUCKS on dope, it will be legal.Also understand that I 235 use the stuff so I am biased. 236 suicide:I have worked in a hospital and seen people after they have been saved. 237 most are happy and joyous and a few keep at it untill they get it right. 238 One case that sticks in my mind was of this 17 year old male who was brought in 239 about once every week or 2 with ether his wrists slashed or with 50 or so 240 pills in him. Each time after we save him, he would be happy again. 241 one day he came close enough that he was clinicly dead for 2 miniuts. when we 242 told him this, he started crying and said that all he had wanted was the 243 feeling of somebody loving him. Kind of makes me wonder about this society. 244 Man as a pack animal:Yes, go to your avarage high school and see for yourself. 245 Piper: the above 17 year old lived alone, perhaps if he had given in to the herd 246 instinct he would not have had all that trouble. 247 Ninja(I think) I never saw the 82 budget, am I going blind? 248 All Nerders:Michael is holed up in Troutdale not far from my house with the 249 Epson, his sterio and a french exchange student. Each is getting the same amout 250 of time and I think we will see a new nerd in a few weeks. This time writen 251 in KAMAS where the user has near total control. 252 Aaron:I my be able to get my hands on a PDP 11/04. what is a PDP 11/04 in compar 253 ison to the rest. 254 8/8/84 12:57 P.M. 255 MiG 256 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/ 257 The problem with "mechanical" detterents is that they tend to be overkill 258 (we did not use nukes when Afghanistan was invaded, when KAL 007 was shot down, 259 etc). We have, in fact, relied on our nuclear arsenal so heavily that we CANNOT 260 win if we don't use it! If the Soviets & Eastern Bloc countries were to invade 261 Germany we could either try to delay them (a week at MOST!) or we could 262 "go nuclear". If we took the latter course, THEY WOULD LAUNCH A FULL SCALE 263 NUCLEAR ATTACK ON THE U.S. 264 The nuclear arsenal is ONLY useful for: 265 A. Launching a MASSIVE FIRST STRIKE, or 266 B. Discouraging them from launching a first strike on us. 267 Unfortunately, no one seems to see it that way. It is NOT a defense! 268 As I mentioned above, we CANNOT win a convential war. We can't even 269 FIGHT one for more than a couple of weeks! (lack of supplies) We can't try to 270 train people and produce supplies AFTER the war starts because training a 271 "dumb footslogger" takes longer than the war would last. (note: the only reason 272 we didn't run into this kind of thing in WWII was that Roosevelt had pushed the 273 "peacetime army" up to a high level of readiness & we were producing war 274 materials for Lend-Lease). 275 While I am not entirely sure I'd like it, I begin to think that 276 the Swiss have the right idea- EVERYONE goes through basic traing & "serves a 277 hitch". 278 ____________________________________Leonard_____________________________________ 279 280 281 FROM HAWTHORNE :THE DESIGNED 282 WAIT FOR A MOMENT I MISSED THE 1982 BUDGET AND IT BEING 20- 30 LINES I DONT THINK I BLINKED TO LONG AND MISSED IT. 283 L'HOMME I DID NOT MEAN THAT TO BE AN EFFORT IN BRAGGING. AN,ER ENTICEMENT IF YOU WILL. MAYHAPS A PLEA? 284 I HAVE PLAYED MERELY SIX OR SO GAMES AND HAVE NOT LOST YET. I AM RATHER PROUD OF THIS. 285 NUCLEAR RISK? DOES THIS NOT ER GET A LITTLE MESSY WITHOUT EVEN MENTIONING COSTAT ROUNDABOUT TWELVE DOLLARS A COPY? 286 SUICIDE; I BELEIVE ATTEMPTS AT SUICIDE SHOULD BE FOILED. IF AT ALL POSSIBLE THOUGH I WOULD NOT LEAVE SOMEONE WHO HAD TRIED 287 TO THE MERCY OF A MENTAL/ PENAL INSTITUTE. I DOUBT THE REASONING OF THIS BEING PROCEDURE. 288 MENTAL OR PENAL INSTITUTES ARE NOT WHAT EVERY SUICIDAL PERSON WANTS OR NEEDS AND IT SHOULD NOT BE ASSUMED THAT THEY ARE. 289 290 HERDING INSTICT; NO, PACK TYPE INSTINCTS; YES. MAN IS PREDATOR AND PREDATORIALS DO NOT HERD. 291 EVER HEARD OF LONE WOLVES? 292 ARCHIVISTS; 80 DOUBLE DENSITY EIGHT INCH DISKS AS MY PART AND PARCEL OF THE ARCHIVES. ACCEPT? 293 AARON; NICE TALKING ACCROSS OH SO MANY PLANES WITH YOU YESTER. 294 295 POLICE DETRACTIONISMS; WE MUST WATCH MOST CLOSELY THOSE WHOM WE APPOINT TO WATCH OURSELVES. 296 PROMETHEUS HAWTHORNE SD8408.08 297 298 Leonard ? Welcome back. 299 300 $%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$ 301 Piper - The young male you speak of was rigidly controlled long 302 before he entered the service. 303 Penning people up, conditioning them to obedience in a 304 bland and colorless environment, and subjecting them to 305 continuous regimentation is a graphic description of our 306 educational system. Team sports, lining up to go to the bath- 307 room, rewards for good (acceptable) behavior, punishment for 308 violation of arbitrary rules, emphasis on learning facts rather 309 than thinking processes, are all manipulative techniques to 310 condition us for "the real world". 311 After all, the primary purpose of education is to 312 prepare us for the blind obedience required of American 313 corporate culture or the military. It has nothing to do with 314 teaching people to think, to create, or to function 315 teaching people to think, to create, or to function 316 independently. It is purely a process of socialization and 317 acculturation. 318 It is the awesome power of the herd instinct that forces 319 us to bow to the whims of society. If you seriously doubt the 320 power of this primal instinct test it, try isolating yourself 321 from society for a year. I'm not talking about going off by 322 yourself for awhile, I'm talking total isolation. No books, no 323 magazines, no television, no radio, no telephone, no human 324 contact of any kind. You'll discover just how powerful social 325 needs are to the herd animal. 326 If that seems too drastic try going without sexual 327 satisfaction for a year. I imagine those "vague instincts" 328 won't seem so vague anymore. After all, it's not nice to fool 329 mother nature. 330 331 Frank 332 $%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$ 333 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&YOU CAN ALWAYS BEAT OFF&&&&&&SEXUAL INSTINCTS&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& 334 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 335 WELL, MY LITTLE WRITING ON THE ARMY SEEMS TO HAVE STIRRED UP A BEE'S NEST. I DID PROMISE THE BUDGET HOWEVER, SO HERE IT IS: 336 FEDERAL BUDGET EXPENDITURES(IN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS) FOR 1982 337 1.INCOME SECURITY (A.)SOCIAL SECURITY 154.1 (B.)GENERAL RETIREMENT 7.7 (C.)FEDERAL RETIREMENT 19.4 338 (D.)UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION 23.8 (E.)HOUSING ASSISTANCE 8.0 (F.)FOOD AND NUTRITION 15.6 (G.)OTHER 19.8 339 2. HEALTH CARE (A.)MEDICARE 46.6 (B.)MEDICAID 17.4 (C.)OTHER 10.0 3.DEFENSE (A.)PERSONNEL SALARIES 42.3 340 (B.)RETIREMENT PAY 14.9 (C.)OPERATIONS 59.7 (D.)PROCUREMENT 43.3 (E.)OTHER 27.2 4.INTEREST 84.7 341 5.VETERANS BENEFITS 24.0 6.TRANSPORTATION 20.6 7.EDUCATION 14.3 8.AGRICULTURE 14.9 9.ENVIRONMENT 12.9 342 10.INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS 10.0 11.SCIENCE AND SPACE 7.1 12.ENERGY 4.7 13.HOUSING COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT 7.2 343 14.LABOR AND TRAINING 6.0 15.SOCIAL SERVICES 6.0 16.JUSTICE DEPARTMENT 4.7 17.ADMINISTRATION 4.7 344 18. FISCIAL ASSISTANCE 6.4 TOTAL BUDGET 728.4 345 **************************************** NOW, BEFORE SHOOTING IN YOUR TWO CENTS, THIS IS REQUIRED READING!!!!!!! ****** 346 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++0000000001TED+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 347 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 348 WHEN ASKED IF I WOULD SAVE A MAN TRYING TO KILL HIM 349 SELF, I REPLIED, YES, EXCEPT FOR ONE MAN. THAT MAN 350 IS YOU FRANK. YOU ARE A DISGUSTING PERSON WHO HAS 351 SHOWN THOUGH YOUR WORDS YOU CARE NOTHING FOR YOUR 352 FELLOW MAN BEYOND THE IMMEDIATE PLEASURES YOUNG 353 BOYS GIVE YOU. YOU LOOK APON THE WORLD THOUGH BLACK 354 COLORED GLASSES. YOU SEE NOTHING GOOD. ALL IS BAD 355 YOU THINK, AND THEREFORE, WHY SHOULD YOU CARE ABOUT 356 ANYTHING. YOU FAULT SOCIETY, BUT THE FAULT LIES 357 WITH YOU AND YOUR KIND. THE UNCARING. THE ONE'S 358 WHO ARE NEVER GUILTY. YOU THINK YOU ARE ON THE SIDE 359 OF RIGHT, AND ALL OTHERS ARE WRONG. TO READ YOUR 360 ENTRIES, WHICH EVERYONE THOUGHT WOULD NEVER APPEAR 361 AGAIN, ARE TO READ DESPAIR AND DEPRESSION. YOU 362 ARE THE ONE I BLAME FOR THE PROBLEMS OF SOCIETY. AND 363 IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO SPUR THE CAUSE OF 364 RETRO ACTIVE BIRTH CONTROL. IF IT COULD ONLY BE SO, 365 OUR LIVES WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER. MAYBE SIMPLE 366 CORRECTIVE SURGERY, BOTCHED ACCIDENTLY OF COURSE, 367 COULD BE USED INSTEAD. I SHUDDER TO THINK THAT 368 A SOULESS PERSON LIKE YOU EVEN HAS ACCESS TO A 369 MODEM AND COMPUTER. THERE IS NO FILTER IS THERE? 370 THERE IS NO WAY TO MUFFLE YOUR VOICE AND SILENCE 371 YOUR SICK CALLS FOR ATTENTION. IN THAT RESPECT, 372 WE HAVE REALLY FAILED. FOR THAT I AM SORRY 373 374 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 375 THE CITIZEN OF THE WORLD, THE ONE WHO DOES CARE 376 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 377 TO: JACK 378 FROM: GARY WEBER 379 380 > YOU ARE RIGHT! THIS SYSTEM DOES HAVE A LOT OF INTERESTING INFORMATION. I REALLY LIKE READING ABOUT THE NATIONS 381 PROBLEMS, PROSTITUTION, SUICIDE, AND DRUGS. WHY DON'T YOU WRITE A FEW THINGS 382 ON THIS SYSTEM. I'M SURE YOU HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THESE ISSUES. 383 WELL, CATCH YOU LATER ON KGON,CBBS,PAC. 384 385 --------------------------------------- 386 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp 387 Frank- I believe you are confusing you social conditioning with your 388 instincts. MiG - likewise with the H.S. crew. Speaking from personal 389 experience, living for years without other human contact is not difficult 390 if you are comfortable with yourself and your own belief set. The first 391 month is diffucult, the second month much more pleasant, and should a 392 hapless traveller come through several months later, it can be quite 393 difficult to be pleasant -- the urge is to shout and throw stones. 394 The sexual urge is also largely planted by social conditioning. It 395 drops to a quite acceptable level if not exited by advertising, display, 396 or availability. (Someone once remarked to me that sex is the most 397 overrated sensation in the world -- the most underrated is a good BM.) 398 I would agree that mankind tends to be a pack rather than a herd 399 animal. Although man is an omnivore, rather than a pure carnivore or 400 herbivore, the tendency to band together and attack is quite strong. 401 About conditioning young males and schools -- there is merit in what 402 you say. Schools are not designed to teach students how to think, except 403 incidentally. They exist as social balance wheels, giving all members 404 of a society a common experience and instilling many of the socially 405 "acceptable" habits. Example. In the 9th grade (4 yr high school) I 406 had my hair rumpled before coming to English class. The teacher presented 407 me with a comb in front of the class. (My reaction? I kept the comb 408 for the full 3 1/2 remaining years and did not comb my hair again until 409 I had been out for nearly three years.) I consider myself somewhat 410 abnormal in that I have replaced much social conditioning with my own 411 intentionally instilled conditioning. However, I have left much of 412 the underlaying social conditioning intact, as it has great survival value 413 in our present society. 414 To the one who inquired -- Yes, I do indeed play (or at least play at) 415 the pipes. After several hours it induces a feeling of great philosophical 416 calm that I have been unable to achieve in any other way. The bass drone 417 seems to create a primal OM that does strange things while sustained. 418 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp 419 420 ;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-; 421 Pack animal? What is man? A truly perplexing question in light of our so 422 called world situation. I propose that man was nothing more than a step 423 in natures quest for a more "flexible" species. While I'm not saying that 424 humanity is the end product, I will say that we have managed to change 425 ourselves and those factors which affect our SURVIVAL (shelter, food and 426 so forth) as race. For all this hoopla though, I still can't see why we 427 aren't under a more centralized world government, make that really big 428 leap (sorry Ed) and take over our section of the solar system. Space is 429 where it's at, and that's where we should be. Imagine the possibilties: 430 new medicines, metals, unlimited living space, and the list could go on 431 forever. It's time to quit fighting over this little dustball and go for 432 the big one. Galactic pioneering, anyone? 433 ;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-;-; 434 [*=*] PIPER: MOST INTERESTING ENTRY. HAVE YOU READ THOREAU, ON 435 OF MY "HEROS"? MAN IS INDEED A SOCIAL CREATURE, FEW OF WHOM CAN 436 SEEM TO FUNCTION WITHOUT OTHERS AROUND THEM. EG, IF YOU HAVE EVER 437 FLOWN OVER A HIGHWAY IN A SMALL AIRCRAFT, YOU MIGHT HAVE OBSERVED 438 HOW CARS, TRUCKS, ETC ALWAYS SEEM TO END UP IN 'STRINGS' RATHER 439 THAN ALONE. INTERESTING. WHAT IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND IS A TOTAL 440 WITHDRAWL FROM SOCIETY. MYSELF, I AM SOMEWHAT THAT WAY, MAINLY 441 BECAUSE I PREFER MY OWN COMPANY BUT I STILL NEED AND WANT TO BE 442 WITH PEOPLE SOMETIMES. COULD/WOULD YOU TEACH SOMEONE TO 443 PLAY THE PIPES? I HAVE WANTED TO 444 LEARN FOR A LONG TIME, BUT THE COST OF A GOOD SET OF PIPES IS 445 CONSIDERABLE---. 446 YOU MIGHT ALSO, FIND TWAINS LETTERS FROM THE EARTH INTERESTING. 447 [*=*] 448 $%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$ 449 Piper - I don't believe I'm confusing social conditioning with 450 instinct. Freud established that there were essentially two 451 fundemental instincts. Eros, the love or life instinct, and 452 Thanatos, the death or destruction instinct. This would seem 453 to imply that sexuality and violence (war) are written into our 454 biological life plan and are inevitable and eternal. 455 Instinct, as defined through the Freudian position, is 456 "Any set of responses, shown by a great majority of the members 457 of a species, that are associated together in time under 458 specified environmental conditions". I think this pretty well 459 establishes sexuality as an instinct. After all, if you can't 460 believe Freud who can you believe? 461 As to man being an omnivor, this is inconsistant with your 462 position that we are pack rather than herd animals. Pigs do not 463 run in packs. 464 As to your ability to run independently of the pack, 465 you have demonstrated that ability admirably. By the values of 466 the Backwater herd (perhaps in this instance pack would be more 467 appropriate) I am the sleeziest scum on the earth. Yet you 468 treat me with a certain respect. Considering that you socialize 469 with these folks I think you're demonstrating considerable 470 personal courage. 471 I couldn't help but notice that your recent entries have 472 been the most well conceived, intelligent, thoughtful responses 473 I've seen on Backwater. I think it's also commendable that you 474 seem to be the first person to see through what I'm doing. I'm 475 impressed. 476 Frank 477 478 P.S. - MIG: Thanks for your earlier acknowledgement of the 479 quality of my writing. It didn't go unnoticed. 480 $%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$%$ 481 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^ 482 Frank- Pigs do run in packs, when in the wild. The segregation 483 that man has placed on them has perhaps overcome their inherent 484 instincts in this environment. 485 I did not enter into the discussions about your sexual prefer- 486 ences as I thought it was probably a hoax. I do not agree with 487 you in that area, but that does not mean that you are 'the 488 sleeziest scum on Backwater'. I was under the impression that 489 we had once again banished personal attacks in favor of reasoned 490 arguments, but I see from Citizen of the World's entry that we 491 have not. I apologize for him, and extend my welcome to your 492 thoughtful replies. 493 I think that man is basically a loner, clinging to one or two 494 others naturally, and only becoming social of necessity. It 495 seems that the more crowded and close society comes, the worse 496 the situation becomes. In this century, radio, TV and the 497 communications sattelite have so narrowed the borders of the 498 world that an individual has no time to be alone anymore, not 499 even in his sleep. That is what I feel is driving us towards 500 mass insanity, and perhaps mass suicide. Unfortunate, but 501 apparently true from my perspective. I expect the Nuclear War 502 to occur, and probably within 20 years. 503 504 Sorry to all for the rambling. I am still in favor of a position 505 of defense to bargain from. (I know that is not wholly consistent, 506 but no one has shown me a better way that would still maintain 507 our freedom.) 508 509 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$ Laissez-faire $^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^ 510 511 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 512 513 WELL, AT LEAST THERE ARENT AS MANY INSULTS AS 514 THERE WAS A WHILE BACK.ANYWAY I ALSO BELIEVE 515 THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE NUCULEAR WAR IN THE 516 NEXT TWENTY YEARS. 517 518 GREETINGS E.C. 519 IF YOUR OUT THERE 520 ::::::::::::::::::HALDRIC:::::::::::::::::::::::::: 521 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 522 ug, who set the damn columns so low? 523 Much better now. Frank, I have a short lived remembery, what was it I said? 524 525 Ted:could you mellow out a sec and notice that Frank said in one of his messages "portraid" a child 526 molester the whole thing was probably a small experiment in hate conditioning. 527 528 My, my syntax sucks today, I think I shall stop here and return when more sober 529 MiG 530 ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?`? ? ? ? ? ? ~ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/ 531 (FNORD**************FNORD) 532 H'LLO,LOGAN HERE. NEW IN TOWN,ANYBODY HERE 533 COLECT COMICS, ALSO TRYIN' TO SELL SOME OLD 534 STAR WARS OR TRADE FOR SOME OLD DEFENDERS OR X-MEN 535 536 CON TACT LOGAN...................FNORD 537 (*****************LOGAN********************) 538 *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*DREAMTOUCHER*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* 539 WELL I SEE MUCH LIVELY SOCIO-'PHILO'... STUFF GOING ON. AS TO SUISIDE; I THINK IT WOULD BE 540 OK IF THE DECEASED CLEANED UP AFTER HIM SELF! 541 AS TO THE VARIOS PERMUTATIONS OF 'RAPE'; THIS IS LARGLY A MATER OF 542 SOCIAL CONTEXT. IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SOCIAL AMBIENT WITH WICH MOST OF US 543 ARE (SEMI) FAMIALIAR AND A FEW EVEN SEEM (SEMI(?)) COMPFORTABLE WITH, ANY 544 FORM OF PHYSICAL VIOLATION IS LOOKED UPON AS A VIOLATION OF SELFNESS. 545 THIS IS BAD NEWS. ADD TO THIS THAT IT IS A NORM FOR PEOPLE TO EXPECT EACH 546 OTHER TO REACT NEGATIVELY TO THIS. IN THE CONTEXT OF SOME ALIEN SOCIAL 547 AMBIENT ON THE OTHER HAND... AFTER ALL OUR WAY ISN'T THE ONLY WAY; OR EVEN NECESSARILY 548 A PARTICULARY GOOD WAY IN MANY CONTEXTS. 549 AS TO FREUD'S SUPPOSITION OF EROS BEING THE ULTIMATE MOTIVATION: FREUD WAS A DIRTY OLD MAN. 550 ON THE OTHER HAND; PSRINKOLOGY HAD TO START SOMEWARE. ON THE THIRD HAND; OR DID IT?... 551 *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* 552 IN AN FTL SHIP OF CYBERNETIC LIFT, EFFORTLESSLY GLIDING THROUGH THE 553 LIMITLESS VOID, I HOLD IN MY HAND A SMALL PEICE OF DRIFTWOOD. IT'S SHAPE 554 THE DELICATE ARTISTRY OF THE SUBTLE FORCES OF NATURE. 555 556 IN THE CRYSTAL STARBLAZE OF MIDNIGHT, POINTED EARED COMPANIONS 557 UNDER MOON'S FULL LIGHT. SOMETIMES THEY SING TO REMEMBER THE HONORED DEAD, 558 SOMETIMES TO SPREAD THE ALARM, SOMETIMES TO SEEK ONE ANOTHER, TONIGHT THEY 559 SING FOR THE SHEAR JOY OF SINGING. 560 *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* 561 562 THIS IS AN ITR<<