LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 80 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 616 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ************************************************************* 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION 6 PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is 10 privatly owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which 11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be 12 periodically purged of er messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 13 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the 14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the 15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace 16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 18 ************************************************************ 19 20 [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[ 21 Hi there!!! this is a newcommer to 22 23 I just spent 40 minutes or so read 24 (<-- thats 'reading') the messages 25 on disk B. This System is getting 26 More and more interesting as the days 27 go by. (years go by?). My name is 28 The Jedi and I just baught my very 29 own modem. So I'll be around to bother 30 everyone regularly. (MYUA HAHAHA...) 31 Thie by the way is the first time I 32 have every gotten this srewy system 33 to behave properly for me. It is a 34 pleasure. 35 REMEBER: people who eat fish, hate 36 TRS-80's. 37 ]]]]]]]]]] The Jedi ]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 38 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 39 Jedi: did you learn that from the farce? 40 Bo 41 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 42 ----------------------------------------------- 43 I'S AN OSSIFER OF THE POLICE FARCE. GIVE UP NOW, 44 AND WE'LL TRY TO TAKE YOU ALIVE. 45 46 SPIKE 47 ------------------------------------------------ 48 PS. I DON'T GET DA FISH ONE.-------------------- 49 50 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 51 OK, gang. Last Reminder. Inncounter tonight at 6:30 for those 52 hitting the tubes, 8:30 or so for those who just want to party. 53 address is 21845 SW York, about four streets off TV Hwy at 219th 54 in ALOHA (642-7837). Succulents and Gustabilities abounding. 55 all ages and alter-egos welcome. Even Yngvi, the nut. Distimming 56 between consenting adults only. 57 58 MCKANE...I AM BEING HAUNTED BY THE GHOST OF PHILLIPE. CAN PRIMAL 59 BELCH THERAPY HELP? WILL YO BE THERE? 60 61 62 CONTREMON VALERIUS 63 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 64 Contremon Valerius: 65 Thanks for halping me clear up about who killed me. I wished he wasn't dead. 66 It's so boring around here. How would you like it if you were left as a baby 67 for the Ninja to train? You'd probably like it even less if you were Chinese to 68 boot, not to mention the fact that you specialized in '57 Chevy sticks. And to 69 top all that off, I got killed by someone I didn't even see. It's just depressing 70 All these dead people want to do is sit here and count stars and things like that. The only person who I can talk to is the 71 warlord and all he wants to play is Go. Oh well, maybe I'll go look for Phillipe. He might want to leave some stick shifts 72 around and terrorize the living. 73 The Ninja 74 ******************************************************************************** 75 LEROY ............. I'M WATCHING YOU....... 76 77 78 79 Sorry, can't make it to the party. I'm sitting up with a sick freind, the 80 lost hebrew. 'Sallright, just a head cold. 81 Yngvi 82 p.s. i am not a nut, just a little crazy. 83 >+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+< 84 ******************************************************************** 85 NINJA: AW, ALRIGHT. I'M SORRY I PUCHED YOUR TICKET. PHILLIPE STILL 86 HAS ONE GET OUT OF HEAVEN FREE CARD, IF YOU CAN GET IT FROM HIM YOU 87 CAN USE IT. 88 89 CONTREMON 90 *************************************************************************** 91 Phillipe...Phillipe...Where are you 92 Phillipe?(Who set this thing to 40 columns?) I want to borrow your card 93 Phillipe. Phillipe, I'm getting bored here Phillipe. Where's the card 94 Phillipe? 95 The Ninja 96 ******************************************************************************** 97 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 98 EVOLUTION AND PASSION! 99 BRITISH COLUMNIST CHRISTOPHER BOOKER TAKES A NUETRAL POSITION IN THE 100 CREATIPON-EVOLUTION CONTROVERSY. RECENTLY HE COMMENTED ON THE "PASSION" 101 HE HAS OBSERVED ON BOTH SIDES. "THE CREATIONISTS PASSIONATELY DENY THAT 102 THERE WAS ANY SUCH THING AS EVOLUTION," HE WROTE IN HIS "SATURDAY COLUMN" 103 FOR LONDONS DAILY TELEGRAPH. SO HE REASONED THAT A THINKING PERSON MIGHT 104 "TURN TO THE SCIENTIFIC WORLD FOR A MORE PLAUSIBLE , RATIONALLY ARGUED 105 EX[PLANATION--ONLY TO FIND AN EQUAL DISPLAY OF PASION BEHINDS EVERY KIND 106 OF 'EVOLUTIONIST' POSITION, MANY OF THEM QUITE INCOMPATIBLE WITH ONE 107 ANOTHER." "THE TROUBLE IS THAT, FOR ALL THE SOPHISTICATION IT HAS 108 GATHERED FROM RESEARCH INTO MOLECULAR BIOLOGY, DARWINIAN 'NATURAL SELEC- 109 TION' IS JUST A THEORY," BOOKER OBSERVED, "AND FURTHERMORE, IT IS A THEORY 110 RIDDLED WITH THE MOST ENORMOUS HOLES AND QUESTION MARKS." BOOKER ILLUSTRATED 111 WITH THE PROBLEM OF "'JUMPS' IN THE EVOLUTIONARY LADDER...SUCH AS THE EMER- 112 GENCE OF THE EYE, OR OF ALL THE FACTORS WHICH DISTINGUISH BIRDS FROM EVERY 113 OTHER KIND OF CREATURE." HE NOTED THAT EVEN THE LATEST THEORY, WHICH SUG- 114 GESTS RELATIVELY LARGE EVOLUTIONARY JUMPS AMOUNG ISOLATED GROUPINGS, MUST 115 ADMIT TO "*SOME* INTERMEDIATE STAGE, OF A CREATURE LUMBERED WITH A MEMBRANE 116 AS YET INSUFFICIENTLY DEVELOPED TO ENABLE IT TO FLY, WHILE SO RETARDING THE 117 FORMER AGILITY...THAT IT WOULD HAVE HINDERED RATHER THAN AIDED SURVIVAL." 118 THE COLUMNIST THEN CHARGED: "THE MORE ORTHODOX DARWINIANS NOT ONLY MANAAGE 119 NOT TO 'SEE' THE IMPORTANTCE OF SUCH QUESTIONS. REVEALINGLY THE SIMPLY 120 FALL BACK WITH REDOUBLED FERVOUR ON MERE DOGMATIC ASSERTIONS, AND TAKE 121 REFUGE YET AGAIN IN THOSE ONE OR TWO FAVOURITE CASE-HISTORIES...WHICH SEEM 122 TO CONFIRM THEM IN THEIR COMFORTABLE FAITH, WHILE LEAVING ALL THE REALLY 123 INTERESTING QUESTION TOTALLY UNANSWERED. "THE KEY WORD IS 'FAITH.' TO THE 124 REASONABLY DETACHED OBSERVER THERE IS NOTHING MORE OBVIOUS ABOUT DARWINIANS, 125 IN ALL THEIR VARIETIES AND SECTS, THAN THAT ULTIMATELY THEY ARE JSUT AS 126 MUCH RESTING THEIR ACCOUNT OF THE ORIGINS AND EVOLUTION OF LIFE ON SHEER 127 FAITH AND UNSUBSTANTIATED BELIEF AS THE 'CREATIONISTS' THEY SO HOTLY DERIDE. 128 "THEIR 'MYTH' IS ONE WHICH ENABLES THEM TO SEE THE WHOLE MYSTERY OF LIFE 129 AS THE PRODUCT OF BLIND, MECHANISTIC FORCES WITHOUT ANY GUIDING 'MIND' OR 130 'PURPOSE'--AND THAT THEREFORE WE CAN ENJOY OUR PLACE AS THE TRIUMPHANT END- 131 PRODUCT OF THIS PROCESS WITHOUT FEELING THAT WE 'OWE IT TO ANYONE.' 132 COMFORTING THIS MAY BE--BUT THERE IS NOTHING IN THE STRICTEST SENSE 133 'SCIENTIFIC' ABOUT THIS SET OF BELIEFS" 134 ANY BITES? I'M WAITING......... 135 !?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?? 138 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 139 Aiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggghhhhh (screeech) 140 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% A "Detached" (read nauseous) observer %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 141 P.S. The only truley detached observer is a disembodied head 142 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Mr. Tim %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% 143 ***AND HE USUALLY ISN'T LOOKING************************************CV 144 145 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6 146 OK, deborah, I'll bite. The problem is evidence. I'm willing to look 147 at anything. Even physics is lies, but they're the best lies we can 148 come up with at the moment, and the seem to do the job. This is the 149 underlying premis behind the "Scientific Method". Faith has nothing 150 to do with it. Sure there may be gaps. I don't know how black holes 151 (if they exist) should work. But there is a greater "Fit" of theory 152 to observed fact in the evolutionary MODEL than there is in the 153 creationist. Whenever the balance of the switches, so will scientists. 154 This holds true for every theory from speed of light limits to 155 nuclear particles. We go with the best lie we can find, until someont 156 comes up with a better one. 157 158 GENERAL MACAIBO 159 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6 160 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 161 THE MAIN POINT IS THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU BELIEVE, YOU BELIEVE SOMETHING. 162 EVEN IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO BELIEVE THE RELIGIOUS VIEW, YOU STILL HAVE 163 "FAITH IN SOMETHING" . DO YOU HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF? 164 BO 165 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 166 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 167 deborha,you say that the key word is "FAITH" faith in what? a supreme being 168 that controls everything? or something that at least s SEEMS posible like 169 the evolutionary theorys? what do YOU believe in? 170 90% of my friensds follow some religion,mostly christian,one b'hai (hello a!) 171 and a few rajneesh.aALL insist that there religion is the correct one. 172 as for my position on the issue,the # for american athiests is 771-xxxx,give 174 it a call sometime.if you want to argue theology i am, 177 The Man in Gray 179 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 180 ************************************************* 181 GENERAL: IF YOU WERE TO READ WHAT YOU WROTE FROM A DETACHED POINT OF VIEW, 182 YOU WOULD FIND THAT IT EXIBITED ALL OF THE QUALITIES OF 'FAITH' THAT HAS 183 BEEN DISCUSED, YOUR 'FAITH' IS NOT IN THE DETAILED ACOUNTING OF FACTS 184 THAT ARE USED TO SUPPORT THE THEORIES YOU BELIEVE, BUT RATHER THE VERY 185 BASE OF CONCEPTS THAT YOU START FROM, THAT SOMEHOW THE CHAOS THAT THIS 186 UNIVERSE STARTED FROM HAS BY PURE RANDOM CHANCE ORDERED ITSELF INTO THIS 187 THING WE CALL LIFE. I AM SOMEWHAT SCEPTICAL OF THIS VIEW POINT JUST AS 188 I AM SCEPTICAL THAT SOME SUPREME BEING WAVED HIS (HER?) MAGIC WAND AND 189 IT ALL APPEARED READY MADE ONE DAY. I FEEL THE ANSWER IS SOMEWHERE IN 190 THE MIDDLE OF THESE TWO EXTREMES. I MIGHT POINT OUT THAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE 191 BASED ON SOME BASIC THINGS THAT YOU HAVE 'FAITH' IN AND YOU BUILD YOUR 192 VEIW OF THE WORLD BASED ON THESE BELIEFS, THEY ARE USUALLY NOT 'PROVABLE' 193 IN A SPECIFIC SENSE OTHER THEN BY REFERING TO THEMSELVES FOR PROOF. 194 THE MOST COMMON 'PROOF' SITED IS OBSERVATION, OR COMMON SENSE. YET YOU 195 WILL FIND THESE VERY SAME 'PROOFS' USED IN RELIGON AS WELL, YOU DO NOT ACCEPT 196 THIER 'PROOFS' BECAUSE YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THIER CONCEPTUAL BASED, AND THEY 197 DO NOT ACCEPT YOUR 'PROOFS' FOR THE VERY SAME REASON. THIS IS WHY SUCH 198 DISCUSSIONS NEVER GET ANYWHERE. HOWEVER DO NOT FOOL YOURSELF IN TO THINKING 199 THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE FAITH IN SOMETHING, YOU DO, IT IS YOUR SCEINTIFIC 200 METHODE. EVERY MUCH OF A FAITH AS IS RELIGON. DO NOT MISTAKENLY IDENTIFY 201 FANATISISM OR BELIEF IN A SUPREME BEING AS THE ONLY DEFINITION OF FAITH. 202 FAITH IS BELIEVING THAT THE WORLD IS AND WILL CONTINUE TO OPERATE IN 203 THE WAY THAT YOU SEE IT THRU YOUR OWN EYES NOTHING MORE. 204 **************** SNOT NOSE ******************************************* 205 P.S. TRUE THAT THE PRIMAL FART IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO CONTROL THE 206 TONE OF, BUT THEN WHAT FUN IS A GOOD CULT IF EVERYBODY CAN DO YOUR 207 THING? AFTERALL WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT WE ARE BETTER THEN 208 THOSE SNIVELING HEATHENS SOMEHOW! 209 ********************************************************************* 210 ???????????????????????????????????????? 211 s.n. leave the !"#$%&'() line length at 212 80 chars,o.k.? and scarf some scopalimin 213 dirivitives and wipe that stuff off of 214 your nose!! 215 i beg to differ on the issue of tonal 216 quality,not many people can snort a 217 couple of letres of pepsi and live 218 sence a primal belch can takee a long 219 time to happen this leaves more judgeing 220 time for the tone/duration/# of people 221 affected/etc.. also to consider is the 222 cost/noise ratio,2 leters of coke can be 223 had for .50 + .20 dep.2 cans of hormell 224 extra strenth cchile costs up to 4* that 225 much. the cost of initing new mambers of 226 your cult would be cut 75% 227 also consider the fermentation time, 228 primal belch vs. primal fart. 229 230 primal belches take less then 5 miniuts 231 to manufacture(personal experimentation) 232 233 the primal fart must wait for the action 234 of varius enzymes/microbes/acids/etc.. 235 to fully mature.therefor the time spent 236 in initing new cult members. 237 75% better in every way,the doctor leroy 238 primal belch wins!!(and it is'nt even 239 habit forming/cancer causing) 240 241 242 The Man in Gray 243 ???????????????????????????????????????? 244 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 245 As darkness began to close down of the forbiding forest, 246 Tarn and Emer paused by a friendly looking tree to rest a bit. 247 Clasping her hand between his own, he tells her, "I just want to 248 thank you for coming to rescue me, but are you sure you can find 249 the way back out again?" Sighing Tarn sits back against the tree 250 and relaxes as he can. In only a moment the days adventures 251 takes its toll, and Tarn nods off. Sometime later he awakes to 252 find Emer gone. Panic stricken Tarn peers about but Emer is 253 nowhere to be found. Falling back against the tree he wraps his 254 cloak about him and hugs his knees to his breast trembling in 255 fear that she has abandoned him. 256 * Tarn * 257 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 258 ************************************************ 259 DEAR GRAY PERSON: SURE IT IS HABIT FORMING, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY 260 PUT THE CAFFINE IN THAT STUFF! AS FOR CANCER CAUSING, YOU SHOULD 261 SEE THE LAB REPORTS ON SOFTDRINK! AFTER FORCE FEEDING RATS 20 GAL 262 OF THE STUFF A DAY FOR 4 YEARS, THE RATS DIED. OF COURSE THERE 263 HAS BEEN SOME ARGUMENT THAT THEY DIED BY DROWNING, BUT THAT IS 264 JUST TALK BY THE TECHNICIANS WHO PERFORMED THE TESTS, AND THEY 265 DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. 266 BESIDES, I RUN A CLASS OUTFIT. NONE OF THAT CHEAP STUFF HERE WE 267 PAY UPTO $1.50 FOR A CAN OF REAL GOOD BURNING HOT CCHILI. SURE 268 IT TAKES LONGER FOR THE URGE TO DEVELOPE, BUT THE RESULTING 269 COMFORT IS MORE THEN WORTH THE WAIT. AND YOU CAN'T DESTROY AS 270 MANY WITH THE SIMPLE PRIMAL BELCH AS YOU CAN WITH THE PRIMAL FART! 271 WHY IT'S AMAZING, IN SOME STATES THEY REQUIRE US TO WEAR MUFFLERS. 272 ***************** SNOT NOSE ******************************************* 273 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 274 snot nose,living causes cancer,and as for addiction,well,i've been drinking 275 coke/pepsi for 10 years now and i'me not addicted yet! 276 offical flatulance rating guide. 277 tonal quality-tonal quality shall be on a 0-10 pt. scale 278 279 durration-duration shall be awarded on a 0-10 pt scale with 2 pt. deductions for 280 a start/stop(consistancy is a must!!) 281 volume-audio volume is a prime consideration 0-15 pts.a special 10 pts. is 282 awarded for exceding the decible level of an avarage heavy metal concert. 283 volume-gas volume ,xard to measure w/o sophisticated devices or uncomfortable 284 devices attached to the pf'er(mufflers)therefor this catagory is only used in 285 final round competition. 286 # of people affected-1 point for each member of the general public that must 287 288 show signs of reaction. 289 290 if any p.f. raises blisters on unprotected skin or corrrodes metal,20 pts. 291 292 if any solid or semi-solid matter is expeled during a p.f. no pts. are awarded. 293 294 do you stay up late at night or what,last mess.i typed was at 1:30 a.m. then 295 you replyed by 2:30. if you answer this then i may have to become good 296 friends with you! 297 298 ????? The Man in Gray 299 300 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 301 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 303 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< *.* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 304 ... ALAS!!! the dragon lady seems to have gone between again 305 perhaps to another time and/or place 306 ... just a glimpse of flashing wings in sunlight & a whispering of sound 307 308 309 Nila knew exactly what place it was where East began. In 310 fact, every morning of her life she had seen the red sun 311 rise over the enchanted hills and she knew that where the 312 sun rose was the east. Though she had never before traveled 313 away from the palace, she knew from reports that the 314 enchanted hills were less than a day's journey on foot. 315 She would go to the place where East began, find Truth, 316 spend the night, and return to her accustomed life the 317 next day. Now you should know that there is nothing at all 318 hazardous in Nila's kingdom. It never occurred to her that 319 she might become cold or hungry or threatened in any way. 320 It was a very nice kingdom indeed! 321 322 She set out on her journey the very next morning, even 323 before dawn. The streets of the city were freshly dewed 324 and the fruit and flower markets were just setting out 325 their days wares. It was a happy and cheerful time and 326 Nila's spirits were high as she watched the spires of the 327 city dwindle behind her. She marked her direction by the 328 rising sun in front and her shadow behind. At noon when 329 there was neither rising sun nor shadow for direction, she 330 stopped to refresh herself at the river bank. She sat on a 331 warm boulder and watched the flashing golden shapes of fish 332 beneath the surface. For her lunch she picked a luscious 333 mango from a nearby tree and drank the cool water of the 334 river itself. Then she curled up for a nap in the shade. 335 wrapping herself in her beautiful cloak of iridescent 336 bird's feathers. For a few moment she watched the sunlight 337 darting through the leaves in the little glade. It's 338 looking for the shade she thought dreamily and giggled. 339 How silly, because where the sunshine is the shade is not. 340 She giggled again but this time it was in her sleep. 341 342 She did not sleep long. "Just a proper little nap", her 343 father used to say. When she awoke she found that there 344 was a little skiff moored to the bank right in front of 345 her. How lovely she thought. Someone has left this boat 346 for me to ferry myself across the river. How kind the 347 people are in my kingdom. As she pulled the little skiff 348 across the gently flowing water, she noticed a roughly 349 written note pinned to a seat. It said: 350 "When you have crossed the river, leave the boat behind." 351 "Well now!", she said aloud, "How foolish do they think 352 I am? I certainly wouldn't try to carry it with me." 353 She laughed at the thought of it and just then she reached 354 the other shore. Nila moored the little skiff securely for 355 the next traveller and went on her way in the pleasant 356 afternoon. She watched her shadow lengthen ahead of her, 357 pointing to the place where east began. She found it both 358 amusing and exciting to know that just by following her own 359 shadow she would eventually arrive at Truth. When the sun 360 was in front of her, it was just the opposite of course. 361 362 363 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 364 365 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 366 MAN IN GREY: WHEN I SAY FAITH I MEAN "ALLEGIANCE TO DUTY OR A PERSON, 367 LOYALTY, CONFIDENCE, A SYSTEM OF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS." NO MORE NO LESS. 368 369 I'M JUST THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT LIKES A GOOD STIMULATING DISCUSSION, 370 AND THEREFORE ON OCCASION I TRY TO START ONE. I AM A PEOPLE LOVER, AND 371 ENJOY ALL OPINIONS. 372 P.S. I LIKE YOUR STYLE 373 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 374 !(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)+!)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+(*)!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*) 375 WHEW! FOR THE MOST PART.... THANK GOD (OR WHOEVER)... BACKWATER IS ALMOST 376 BACK TO NORMAL. I SURE MISS THOSE DEBATES! AND ALL OF THE SR. MEMEBERS ARE 377 GREAT TO HEAR. BUT.. WHERE ARE THEY? I HAVEN'T SEEN HROTHGAR OR AARON OR 378 ANYONE ON HERE LATELY. WHERE DID EVERYONE GO??? AND DID DOM EVER RETURN? I 379 AM BACK TO STAY, AS LONG AS THE FOREM REMAINS INTERESTING. 380 381 382 !(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+:JODY:+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+!(*)!+! 383 ######################################## 384 Deborah: Well at long last you have returned to the Inn in a form that is 385 sorely missed. I too, miss the debates, but the current one is just a rehash 386 of past encounters. The question is not ''FAITH' as that is just a word that 387 has many meanings. I for one resent the 'church' usurping the use of the 388 word for their own exclusive use. 389 All people have faith. I have it when I go to start my car in the morning 390 but it doesn't depend on some ridiculous supreme being, it depends on how 391 well I did the work on my car, or anything else. In other words I have 392 faith in the only thing that counts and that is myself. All that I do in 393 this mortality I, and nothing else is accountable for. Your brand of faith 394 is just a cop-out to life and the inability to manage for yourself, like 395 a child that has to ask it's parents for permission to do anything. That 396 is the way I see the religion question, no mater what the denomination. From 397 Christian to Shinto, Buddhist to Rajneeshi they are all the same. Just 398 out there to controll your actions through Brain-washing you into submission 399 As I have said before, if we were to do away with ALL!!! religions and 400 started living our own lives we could probably cut the incidedence of war 401 in half or better. Might even do away with it alltogether. 402 403 404 #################C.Y.M.##############################1/29/84 10:43am######## 405 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 406 General: 407 If you look at the evolutionary and the creationary theories you will 408 see that it is impossible to "prove" either one of them. However, there is 409 not a scrap of evidence that supports the theory of evolution. In fact, 410 I think that some pther scientific theories are somewhat hazy and seem to 411 be made in order to halp explain evolution. Creation, on the other hand, 412 will predict the facts and explains the facts whether you believe in it or 413 not. It is similar to belief in objects being made up of atoms. You don't 414 have to believe in it, but if you are a chemist it sure helps. (I do believe 415 in atoms) Another thing, evolution takes so much time. For some reason, 416 our society seems to believe that this planet is billons of years old. In 417 fact, there is no evidence to support this, and there is evidence to refute 418 this. 419 Dr. Buck 420 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 421 OK, SO LET'S HEAR SOME OF THAT EVIDENCE. BY THE WAY, THERE IS INDEED MUCH 422 EVIDENCE SUPPORTING EVOLUTIONARY THEORY. DARWIN HIMSELF PRESENTED NUMBEROUS 423 POINTS SUPPORTING IT. INDEED IT WAS ONLY AFTER MUCH WORK IN THE AREA THAT 424 HE CAME TO THE CONCLUSIONS HE DID AS THE ONLY EXPLAINATION TO WHAT HE 425 OBSERVED. AS FAR AS EVOLUTION TAKING TIME, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO. ADMITTEDLY 426 SOME SCIENTISTS FEVERENTLY BELEIVE THAT IT IS ALL THROUGH THE SLOW PAINFULL 427 PROCESS OF TIME, EVEN AS THEY TALK ABOUT SUCH THINGS AS THE ALMOST OVERNIGHT 428 DISAPPEARANCE OF CERTAIN SPECIES. EVOLUTION CAN TAKE GREAT STRIDES IN SHORT 429 PERIODS OF TIME WHEN THE ENVIORMENT CHANGES RADICALY. THIS WAS ONE 430 OBSERVATION THAT DARWIN HAD AND INDEED WAS ONE OF THE PRIME OBSERVATIONS 431 WHICH CAUSED HIM TO FORMULATE HIS THEORY. AS FAR AS HOW OLD THE UNIVERSE 432 IS, THAT IS ENTIRLY IRRELIVENT. YOU WILL NOT FIND A SPECIFIC REFFERENCE 433 TO AGE ANYPLACE IN THE BIBLE OR MOST OTHER RELIGOUS BOOKS. TRUE THAT 434 SOME HIGH MUCKETY MUCKS HAVE MADE SOME STATMENTS IN THAT REGARD ON SOME 435 RATHER FLIMSY EVIDENCE, BUT THAT HARDLY IS PROOF ENOUGH TO COUNTER THE 436 SCIENTIFIC PROOFS TO THE CONTRARY. ALSO YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT TO GOD 437 TIME IS OF NO CONSEQUENCE. THOUGH THE BIBLE SAYS HE CREATED THE EARTH 438 IN 6 DAYS, WHO IS TO SAY WHAT A DAY IS TO GOD. INDEED IT EVEN STATES 439 ELSE WHERE THAT TO GOD A DAYS WORK HAS NO RELATION TO OUR DEFINED DAY. 440 AND WHILE I'M ON THE SUBJECT, WHY DOES GOD HAVE TO STICK TO SUCH NARROW 441 LITTLE RULES? THERE IS NOTHING THAT COUNTERS THAT HE (SHE?) COULD NOT 442 HAVE CREATED THE UNIVERSE BY THE VERY MEANS THAT SCIENTISTS CURRENTLY 443 TALK. IN FACT IF YOU WERE TO READ GENISIS CLOSLY AND WITH AN OPEN MIND 444 THE DESCRIPTION (ASSUMING YOU CAN DISCARD YOUR NAROW CONCEPT OF TIME) 445 WOULD SHOW A REMARKABLE SIMULARITY. I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BIG- 446 BANG THEORY AS RELATED TO ENLIGHTENED RELIGOUS BELIEFS, ASSUMING YOU 447 CAN ACCEPT NEW WAYS OF VIEWING THINGS. THE ONLY REAL QUESTION IS NOT 448 HOW LONG IT TOOK TO GET WHERE WE ARE, OR WETHER SOME HAIRY THUNDERER 449 DID IT WITH HIS OWN MIGHTY HANDS, BUT RATHER HOW DID IT COME INTO 450 EXISTANCE TO BEGIN WITH. WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE THE UNIVERSE EXISTED? 451 AND HOW DID THOSE RULES THAT IT SEEMS TO OPERATE UNDER COME INTO BEING? 452 THIS STUFF YOU SPEAK OF IS PENNY-ANNY IN COMPARISION. YOU WANT TO 453 TALK ABOUT COP-OUTS, TO JUST SAY THAT SOME BIG COSMIC MUFFIN DID IT 454 ALL ONE WEEK CAUSE IT WAS BORED TO DEATH AND THERE IS NO FURTHER 455 NEED TO DISCUSS IT, IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST COP-OUTS I HAVE EVER SEEN. 456 ********************* SNOT NOSE ********************************** 457 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 458 That's a very good point to consider. I'm not sure if I like your reference 459 of "religious enlightenment", though. Just because you choose to believe 460 in creation instead of evolution dosen't make you better than anyone 461 else. And I also feel that both sides should take a breather and at 462 least consider the others point of view. If you take a good look at 463 the way genesis decribes creation, as Snot Nose pointed out, it is a 464 good description of the way the scientists belive it happened, just 465 on a different time scale as we understand. 466 Also remember, if there is a God (and I believe there is), then he 467 was the one who made the rules in the first place, and he could 468 probably change them just as easily at any time he wishes. Who's to 469 say both sides aren't right? 470 Bo 471 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 472 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 473 I would like to see just one example of a spieces becoming another spieces 474 . Just one. Does any one out there have but one example? As for time, I 475 think that that is probably a different ball game all together, but I do 476 have some evidence and if you want to see it I'll show it but I'm am getting 477 tire of hunting and pecking so I am going to go. 478 Dr. Buck 479 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 480 P.S. I vote for the fart. The methane can be recycled. 481 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 482 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 483 jody,aaron is still around on other boards.i don't think that he was into 484 multi-author stories,i'll send him a message stateing that a small argument 485 is once again going on.i have no idea who 486 hrothgar is so i can not say,maby aaron can. 487 488 if we could tap jerry falwell and his immoral minority we would have all the 489 ch4(methane) we needed,therefor no need for the primal fart. 490 dr.buck,find somboebody with an apple II and boot "typing tutor" if you need 491 a copy i can send you one,it's fast easy and painless. 492 gotta go,lunch is calling(read burning). 493 The Man in Gray 494 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 495 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?! 496 WELL IT SEEMS LIKE WE TOUCHED ON THIS ONE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, BUT NEVER 497 GOT DOWN TO BRASS TACKS. HERE'S A COUPLE. SOMEONE STATED THAT YOU CANNOT 498 FIND A SPECIFIC REFERENCE IN THE BIBLE AS TO THE AGE OF EARTH. IF YOU'RE 499 LOOKING FOR A SPECIFIC NUMBER LIKE 1,234,567,541 YEARS, YOU'RE RIGHT, 500 THERE'S NOT ONE. BUT THE BIBLE ISN'T ABOUT THE BEGINNING OF THE PLANET, 501 OR THE UNIVERSE FOR THAT MATTER. THE BIG BANG THEORY OR ANY OTHER FOR 502 THAT MATTER COULD BE TRUE. BUT WE CAN FIND OUT THE LENGTH OF EACH 503 CREATIVE DAY. AS WAS ALSO PREVIOUSLY STATED THE CREATION ACCOUNT AGREES 504 WITH PROVED SCIENCE, IN THE ORDER OF CREATION. MORE ON THIS LATER, BUT 505 AS TO THE LENGTH OF THE CREATIVE DAYS, CONSIDER: IN THE BIBLE, AND EVEN 506 TODAY IN EVERYDAY SPEECH, "DAY" CAN MEAN SIMPLY A PERIOD OF TIME. FOR 507 INSTANCE IN THE GENESIS ACCOUNT, AFTER LISTING AND DESCRIBING EACH INDI- 508 VIDUAL CREATIVE DAY, IT SAYS IN GENESIS 2:4, "THESE ARE THE GENERATIONS 509 OF THE HEAVENS AND OF THE EARTH WHEN THEY WERE CREATED, IN THE DAY THAT 510 THE LORD GOD MADE THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS, ". THIS SHOWS THAT THE PRE- 511 VIOUS DAYS DESCRIBED COVERED GENERATIONS, AND YET THE WHOLE THING IS 512 LUMPED TOGETHER AS ONE. JUST AS WE WOULD SAY MY FATHERS DAY, OR IN MY 513 DAY, ETC. 514 FURTHER A DAY WITH GOD CAN BE A LONG TIME. SURELY A SUPREME BEING 515 WOULD BE BOUNDED BY SOMETHING HE CREATED. THEREFORE IN PSALMS 90:4, 516 IT SAYS," FOR ATHOUSAND YEARS ARE TO YOUR EYES LIKE A YESTERDAY WHEN 517 IT IS GOING BY 518 OR A WATCH IN THE NIGHT." SO IT COULD BE 1,000 YEARS OR 4 HOURS, WHICH 519 IS ABOUT THE LENGTH OF A WATCH. ALSO 2 PETER 3:8 SAYS, "BUT DO NOT YOU 520 IGNORE THIS, DEAR FRIENDS, THAT WITH THE LORD ONE DAY IS LIKE A THOUSAND, 521 YEARS, AND A THOUSAND YEARS LIKE ONE DAY." 522 NOW, IF YOU EXAMINE THE FIRST CHAPTER OF GENESIS, YOU WILL FIND THAT AT 523 THE CONCLUSION OF EACH CREATIVE DAY THE PHRASE ".....AND THERE CAME TO 524 BE EVENING AND THERE CAME TO BE MORNING, THE FIRST DAY." THAT'S FROM 525 VERSE 5. VERSE 8 IS THE SECOND DAY, VERSE 13 IS THE THIRD DAY, VERSE 19 526 THE FOURTH, VERSE 23 THE FIFTH, AND VERSE 31 THE SIXTH. BUT NOWHERE IN 527 THE GENESIS ACCOUNT IS THE SEVENTH, WHICH IS THE REST DAY, ENDED. IN 528 FACT SEVERAL THOUSAND YEARS LATER IN THE BOOK OF HEBREWS CHAPTER 4:3-11 529 WE FIND THAT IT WAS STILL CONTINUEING. AND IF WE CARRY THAT A LITTLE BIT 530 FARTHER IN THE FINAL BOOK, REVELATION, WE FIND THAT THE REST DAY INCLUDES 531 THE TIME PERIOD REFERED TO IN THE BIBLE AS THE THOUSAND YEAR REIGN OF 532 CHRIST. 533 ANYHEY, THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT THE BIBLE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE MIS- 534 TAKEN POPULAR IDEA OF 24 HOUR CREATIVE DAYS, THEY WERE THOUSANDS OF YEARS 535 LONG. 536 ALSO SOMEONE MENTIONED THAT DARWIN HAD GOOD ARGUMENTS FOR EVOLUTION. BUT 537 DID Y'ALL KNOW THAT HE TOO, ACKNOWLEDGED THAT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE 538 SOMEONE OR SOMETHING GOT THE BALL ROLLING. IN HIS BOOK, "THE ORIGIN OF 539 SPECIES", DARWIN SAID, "HAVING BEEN ORIGINALLY BREATHED BY THE CREATOR 540 INTO A FEW FORM OR INTO ONE." PAGE 450, MENTOR EDITION. 541 HE REALIZED THAT DESIGN REQUIRES A DESIGNER. WHEW, I"M BUSHED AFTER ALL 542 THAT. HOPE IT MAKES SOME SENSE. TSK, TSK, CYM, THIS RESORTING TO NAME 543 CALLING. WE'RE ALL ALLOWED OUR OWN CHOICE OF OPINIONS YOU KNOW. 544 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 545 =================================================================== 546 547 DEBORAH: 548 AS FOR THE LENGTH OF A CREATIVE DAY IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MILLIONS OF 549 OYEARS LONG, NOT THOUSANDS. AND AS FOR EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION THERE IS 550 PLENTY: I HAVE BEEN COLLECTING FOSSILS FOR YEARS, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE AGE 551 OF FORMATIONS AND THE FOSSILS IN THEM, YOU FIND THE SECESSION OF SPECIES 552 IS VERY CLEAR. I'M NOT SAYING THAT A SUPREME BEING DIDN'T HAVE A HAND IN 553 THIS, BUT I'M NOT SAYING ONE DID EITHER. (NOTE: 'SUPREME BEING' NOT 'GOD' 554 OR 'ALLAH' OR SOMTHING LIKE THAT, I DON'T BELIVE IN A GOD AS MOST 555 ORGANIZED RELIGIONS SAY THERE IS, THE DESCRIPTIONS TEND TO BE TO 556 COVEINIENT, AND I HAVE READ MOST OF THE BIBLE.) 557 558 RESPECTFULLY, 559 EVAN 560 ==================================================================== 561 I NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET MY LOWER CASE WORKING OVER 562 THIS CRAZY MODEM. 563 ==================================================================== 564 565 IT'S NOT THE QUALITY OF TYPING THAT COUNTS, BUT WHAT IS BEING SAID. 566 ======================================================================== 567 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 568 evan,i was not commenting on the style of type only that ones typing speed 569 can be improved so as to be able to type more and not tire as fast. 570 as to the discussion at hand i am becoming hopelessly outclassed in that 571 i have not read much in the bible/koran/whatever.i do however enjoy the 572 discusion.in a previous mess. i used the word argument,a friend stated that 573 "arguments are tradeing of ignorance,discussions tradeing of knowledge" 574 i agree,so lets keep the name calling to a bare minimum. 575 i wish to thank deborah for the "style" complement also. 576 577 The Man in Gray 578 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 579 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! 580 EVAN: MILLIONS OF YEARS. I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN WHAT PROOF YOU 581 RELY ON FOR THAT FIGURE. DO YOU IN FACT BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE CREATIVE 582 DAYS? 583 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 584 ==================================================================== 585 GRAY: 586 IT DOSN'T MATTER IF HAVE OR HAVE NOT READ THE BIBLE OR WHATEVER, JUST 587 USE YOUR HEAD AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIVE (OR DON'T BELIVE). 588 589 DEBORAH: 590 NO I DO NOT BELIVE IN CREATIVE DAYS, I WAS JUST CONTINUING THE DISCUSSION. 591 THE EVIDENCE FOR THE AGE OF FOSSILS IS BASED ON RADIOMETRIC DATING, USING 592 THE DECAY TIME OF VARIOUS ISOTOPES IT IS POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE THE AGE 593 OF VARIOS ROCK FORMATIONS, AND THEREFORE THE FOSSILS IN THEM. OFCOURSE 594 THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE METHOD AND ERRORS CAN BE ON THE ORDER OF 595 MILLIONS OF YEARS, BUT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THOUSANDS OF MILLIONS 596 THIS IS ONLY A FEW PERCENT. (THE ESTIMATED AGE OF THE EARTH IS SOMEWHERE 597 AROUND 5 BILLION YEARS, THE OLDEST FOSSILS, 3.5 BILLION.) 598 599 WELL THER ARE A FEW FACTS (WELL THAT DEPENDS) TO ADD TO THE DISCUSSION, 600 601 EVAN 602 603 ================================================================= 604 1234567890!@#$%^&*()_+][":?><,./;'{}=-<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+<>+abcdefghikkkkkk 605 606 I belive that every thing in the Bible is true because the Bible 607 is God's word. 608 The Bible is God's word. What he says goes!!!!!!!!!! 609 $$$$$$$$$$$###@@@!!!!@@@##$$%%%%^^^^^^^&&&&&*******((((((((((((()))__++++_______ 612 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 613 PRAISE THE LORD 614 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 615 And pass the potato chips! 616 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' >