LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 79 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask...... 2 ******************* REMOVED: 27 OCT 83 ****************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 25 HROTHGAR: WHAT ABOUT THE THOUSANDS IN INDIA WHO WILL ALSO DIE BECAUSE 26 OF THE EXCESSIVE OVERCROWDING AND VERY POOR LIVING CONDITIONS CAUSED 27 BY THEIR RELIGOUS BELIEFS? 28 AS FOR THE RAJ'S I EXPECT THE WHOLE THING TO DIE DOWN ONCE IT HAS FREACHED 29 SATURATION. THIS HAPPENED WITH THE MOONIES AND MOST OTHERS IN THE PAST. 30 SOME MANAGE TO RID US OF THEMSELVES (REMEMBER JOHNESTOWN?). OTHERS MELD 31 INTO THE EBB AND FLOW OF SOCIETY. I SEE NO ONE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE QUACKERS, 32 YET THEY HAVE SOME VERY EXTREME VIEWS WHEN COMPARED TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC 33 VIEW. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT THEY DON'T GO AROUND T RYING TO BEAT THEIR 34 BELEIF INTO EVERYONE ELSE. FOR THIS I RESPECT THEM FAR MORE THEN SOME 35 OF THE MORE 'RESPECTED' RELIGIONS. 36 JUST SAW MONTY PYTHONS 'MEANING OF LIFE', I FIND IT A MUCH BETTER STATEMENT 37 ON THESE THINGS THEN I COULD POSSIBLY MAKE. "EVERY SPERM IS SACRED" 38 ************* MONTY II *********************************************** 39 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 40 41 " They came to a huge tent fashioned of dragonet. Inside 42 the net was the Dragon Lady---a scintillatingly regal Queen 43 of her species. She reclined, half supine, in her huge nest 44 of glittering diamonds; whenever she twitched, the precious 45 stones turned up new facets, like the eyes of the Lord of 46 the Flies, reflecting spots of light dazzlingly. She switched 47 her barbed, blue tail about restlessly, growling, and arched 48 her bright red neck. It was really quite impressive. She had 49 been reading a book of Monster Comics, and seemed not too 50 pleased to be interrupted. " 51 Aaron 52 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 53 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 54 55 Pam: I believe you have presented a valid point in your PTRH (Pam's 56 Theory of Relativity of Happiness). It raises the question (although I'm 57 not sure if that was your intention), "Is a redistribution of 'happiness' 58 really necessary for the Improvement of the human condition?" Viscerally, 59 my answer is "yes", but logically, I must reconcider. 60 In my younger (high-school & early college) days, I did considerable 61 research on a number of religions and philosophies, ranging from that of 62 the classical Greeks to Scientology. I recall that Taoism was one of these 63 but due to the breadth of my studies, I'm afraid the depth was somewhat 64 limited, so I cannot say that I am familiar with any, with the exception 65 of Christianity. I seem to recall though that it is somewhat of a 66 Buddhafied Confucianism. Since Zen Buddhism is one of the two most pre- 67 valent religions in Japan and Confucianism has also played a significant 68 part in its historical development (Japan's, that is), I wouldn't be 69 surprised if the Japanese lifestyle does resemble those of the Taoist 70 persuasion. 71 Thanks for your support of my statement regarding criticism of 72 homeland. I think this is a manifestaton of pride which extends not only 73 to nationalism but also to religious closed-mindedness, racism and etc. 74 Or perhaps it is false-pride based on insecurity which causes one to deny 75 the existence of other ways of life. Only by doing so can he regard his 76 own as the best way. 77 78 In Sane Scientist: I am curious in what way you find the Japanese way 79 of life "regemented". Please elaborate. 80 Also, Is there some significance to the space between "In" and "Sane"? 81 82 BAD: Although my opinions are based in part on published crime statistics, 83 they are also based on observation. I wonder if you have made any such ob- 84 servations from which to formulate your viewpoint or if you simply believe 85 what you are told to believe. I don't doubt that there are countries in 86 which the police/press corruption/ineffectiveness is greater than that 87 of the US, but I have no reason to believe that this applies to the world 88 in general. I recognize that my observations are limited to a particular 89 country, and do not necessarily apply to all others, but they do seem to 90 indicate a vast difference in crime rates between that country and the 91 US, and suggest the possibility of at least a significant difference between 92 that of other countries and the US. 93 Anyway, here are a few of those observations. 94 Repeatedly, I have met Japanese persons (women included) who exhibit 95 not the slightest of fears about walking alone at night in Portland, 96 Seattle, SF or whatever. In Tokyo, or any Japanese city, there is extremely 97 little danger in doing so, and although most Japanese have heard that 98 the same is not true of American cities, it is difficult for them to con- 99 ceptualize the extent of this difference until they see two or three local 100 news broadcasts or are themselves victimized. 101 The streets of many areas of Tokyo are lined with vending machines, 102 and many other areas at least have them at the street corners. Why is 103 this not the case in New York or LA? The reason is obvious; they would be 104 vandalized on a daily basis making it rather unprofitable for the owners. 105 Mass transit is the major mode of transportation in Japan, but for 106 short-distance transportation to and from train/subway stations, bicycles 107 are popular. The result is hundreds of bicycles parked at the station. 108 It amazed me to find that none of them were locked. Would you ever con- 109 sider leaving an unlocked bicycle in downtown Portland? 110 The same is true of houses; very few lock them at night. In fact, 111 some don't even have locks. Businesses usually are locked after hours, 112 but often, the locks are sufficient only to prevent someone from inad- 113 vertantly walking in after closing time, and are by no means burglar-proof. 114 Additionally many businesses have no burglar alarms whatsoever. There 115 is no need. 116 As for the effectiveness of the police, I have never seen them in 117 action therfore I cannot attest to it. The general populace seems to 118 have a rather high opinion of them, but I suspect they may be a little 119 rusty due to the Maytag Repairman Syndrome (lack of on-the-job experience). 120 Your comment/question regarding divorce is not quite legible; please 121 repeat. 122 I surmise from your "MA 7" comment, that accidental it was not. 123 I, therefore, retract previous apology. As I said before, it is not 124 necessary for everyone to reset their own margins; I can use anything 125 greater than 75, which I suspect is true of any 40 or 80 columners. So 126 the only time I have to reset margins, is after you set them at 7. It is 127 not too difficult to reset them; but it is an unnecessary inconvenience. 128 Also there are a number of new users who have enough trouble figuring out 129 how to enter a message. Why make it more difficult for them? What sat- 130 isfaction do you derive from annoying others? 131 132 Deborah: You are correct in discriminating between Christians and 133 Pseudo-christians. Of the large number of "Christians" I have known, 134 however, none of them have fit into the former category. I thought it 135 extinct. So when I speak of "Christians" I am actually referring to 136 Pseudo-christians. Real christians, should they still exist, probably 137 would not pose such a threat to society; but I still feel that they 138 could contribute more if they were to incorporate reality into their 139 beliefs. 140 141 Aaron, Alex, '.....', Leonard, Hrothgar, Monty II: Response coming later. 142 Right now I must continue my pursuit of that elusive substance known as 143 "sleep". 144 145 Dirty Ol' Ol' Ol' Man 3:43am 146 147 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 148 WELL NOW! 149 THINGS DO LOOK DIFFERENT IN THE MORNING, DON'T THEY! 150 151 DOM: I RAN INTO LINE 629 LAST NIGHT AND DESPITE MY BEST EFFORTS AT CON- 152 DENSING MY MESSAGE I THINK I WAS UNCLEAR. WHAT I MEANT TO SAY IS THIS. I 153 REALIZE THAT RELIGION IS AN ENDURING EVIL IN THIS WORLD IN MOST OF IT'S 154 FORMS. 200 FRENCH AND AMERICAN SOLDIERS DIED THIS WEEKEND BECAUSE OF THE 155 RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OF SOME ISLAMICS. A THOUSAND MUSLIM REFUGEES FROM JEWISH 156 PERSECUTION WERE MURDERED AT SABRA AND SHATILA BY CHRISTIANS BECAUSE OF 157 THEIR BELIEFS. 158 HOWEVER, THIS MADNESS USUALLY MANIFESTS ITSELF WITHIN A FRAMEWORK OF 159 TRIBALISM AND/OR NATIONALISM, AS WELL AS OTHER STRUCTURES. WE AS HUMAN 160 BEINGS SEEM TO NATURALLY FIT OURSELVES INTO OVERLAPPING GROUPS THAT ARE 161 EACH ORGANIZED INTO HIERARCHIES WITH ONE OR A FEW PEOPLE AT THE TOP. EACH 162 OF THESE HIERARCHIES WILL REQUIRE IT'S MEMBERS TO SUBSCRIBE TO SOME PAR- 163 TICULAR SET OF BELIEFS AND GOALS. SOMETIMES THESE GOALS AND BELIEFS ARE 164 QUITE INSANE, AND THE METHODS TAKEN TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS INNOCUOUS. SOME- 165 AN EXAMPLE OF THIS WOULD BE THE QUAKERS. SOMETIMES THE GOALS ARE LAUDABLE 166 (LOWER TAXES, MORE FREEDOM, MORE PROFITS FOR ROCKEFELLER AND ARMAND HAMMER) 167 AND THE METHODS TURN OUT TO BE INSANE(APPOINTING ANN BURFORD). 168 THESE HIERARCHIES EACH BRINGS WITH IT IT'S OWN SET OF PROBLEMS. EACH 169 PERSON USUALLY BELONGS TO DOZENS OF THE GROUPS, EVEN WITHOUT BEING AWARE 170 OF IT. 171 THESE GROUPS REPRESENT POWER. WHEN ONE OF THEM IS DEFEATED, ANOTHER WILL 172 FILL THE POWER VACUUM. SO THE DEFEAT OF ONE OF THESE, EVEN WHEN FAIRLY 173 NASTY, SUCH AS ONE OF THE PROSELITIZING RELIGIONS LIKE MANY CHRISTIAN SECTS. 174 WILL ONLY LEAD TO THE EMERGENCE OF ANOTHER. I BELIEVE THAT ORGANIZING 175 OURSELVES IN THIS WAY IS AN INESCAPABLE FACET OF HUMAN NATURE. 176 NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE JOINERS OR TRUE BELIEVERS TO AN EXTREME EXTENT. BUT 177 I BELIEVE ALL BUT A FEW LONE HERMITS SHARE IN THESE CHARACTERISTICS. 178 AND HIGHER INTELLIGENCE IS SOME PROTECTION AGAINST THESE BELIEFS, BUT 179 EXAMPLES OF BRILLIANCE ARE EASY TO FIND AMONG RELIGIOUS PEOPLE AS WELL 180 AS ATHEISTS. NOTE THAT THE POPE SPEAKS OVER A DOZEN LANGUAGES. SO JUST 181 RAISING I.Q., E.G. BY GENETIC ENGINEERING, WILL NOT BE SUFFICIENT, UNLES THE 182 RESULTS GO FAR BEYOND INTELLIGENCE AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. 183 SO WHAT CAN ONE DO? 184 185 SEVERAL APPROACHES LEND THEMSELVES. FIRST WE SEE THAT THE MOST DAMAGE 186 OCURRS WHEN SEVERAL GROUPS ALIGN TO SUPPRESS A HEALTHY DIVERSITY (DIVISON 187 OF POWER). AN EXAMPLE OF THIS COULD BE THE CURRENT ALIGNMENT OF SO-CALLED 188 CONSERVATIVES. THIS ALLIANCE HAS GROUPS IN IT INTERESTED IN RADICAL 189 CHRISTIANITY, SEXUAL SUPPRESSION, A MILITARY FOREIGN POLICY, AND THE 190 PROMOTION OF RACISM AS WELL AS THE SMALL BUSINESS ENTREPRENURIAL ETHIC. 191 THIS GROUP WAS COHERENT ENOUGH FOR A FEW YEARS, BUT IS NOW LOSING POWER. 192 WHY? NOBODY DEFEATED ANY OF THE INDIVIDUAL GROUPS HOLDS ON THEIR MEMBERS. 193 BUT WEDGES HAVE BEEN DRIVEN BETWEEN THE GROUPS. FOR INSTANCE, NICPAC, 194 THE NATIONAL CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE, WAS DEALT A BLOW 195 WHEN GAY ACTIVISTS REVEALED THAT NICPACS LEADERS WERE HOMOSEXUAL. THIS 196 MOVE WAS CRUEL ON A PERSONAL LEVEL NO DOUBT, BUT IT SERVED TO EXPOSE THE 197 LEADERS AS HIPOCRITS. AND DROVE A WEDGE BETWEEN NICPAC AND THE RADICAL 198 CHURCH LEADERS. RONALD REAGAN HAS BEEN FORCED TO SIGN THE KING HOLIDAY 199 BILL, AND IN SO DOING HAS LOST THE SUPPORT OF THE EXTREME RACISTS IN THE 200 CONSERVATIVE CAMP. 201 IT IS THESE SMALL BLOWS THAT MAY DIVIDE A TOO-POWERFUL COALITION. THESE 202 SAME SMALL BLOWS FRAGMENTED THE LEFT IN THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES. REVAL- 203 ATIONS ABOUT THE MAFIA CONNECTIONS OF LABOR ORGNIZATIONS. THE WILLINGNESS 204 OF DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS TO GET INTO MAJOR WARS. THE ECONOMIC POLICIES 205 OF PRO-LABOR,PRO BIG BUSINESS THAT DROVE SMALL BUSINESMEN LIKE MYSELF 206 INTO THE HANDS OF THE WRETCHES ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE (ONLY TO BE 207 BETRAYED BY REAGONOMICS). 208 SO WHEN AN EVIL COALITION ARISES, ONE MAY DRIVE THOSE LITTLE WEDGES. 209 210 THERE ARE OTHER POLITICAL METHODS. BUT THOSE THINGS ARE PERHAPS TOO FAR 211 REMOVED FOR ME FROM THE LEVEL WHERE PEOPLE REALLY NEED HELP. I MENTIONED 212 THE 100,000,000 EXPECTED TO DIE IN AFRICA DURING THE NEXT TWO YEARS 213 BECAUSE OF THE WORLD WIDE RECESSION. THESE ARE REAL PEOPLE. IF YOU OR I 214 COULD SAVE JUST ONE LIFE, OR KEEP ONE CHILD FROM BECOMING MENTALLY 215 RETARDED FROM LACK OF PROTEIN, WOULDN'T THAT BE MORE SATISFYING THAN 216 GIVING TALKS FOR THE AMERICAN ATHEISTS. ALL THOSE TALKS DO IS CONVINCE 217 THE AUDIENCE THAT ATHEISTS ARE BORING. I'VE HEARD THEM. SOMEONE 218 MENTIONED INDIA. THERE ARE MASSIVE PROBLEMS THERE AS WELL (SAYING THAT 219 THEY ARE ALL CAUSED BY RELIGION IS A GROSS OVERSIMPLIFICATION!) 220 221 I'M TALKING ABOUT DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS HERE MORE THAN FIGHTING THE 222 CAUSES. 223 224 THE FIRST THING YOU WILL NEED TO BE EFFECTIVE WILL BE AN ORGANIZATION, 225 OF COURSE! AT LEAST SO IT SEEMS. EVEN IF YOU WANT TO GET PERSONALLY INVOLVED 226 227 MORE LATER.(GROANS..........) 228 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE RENEWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 229 P.S. DO NOT CONFUSE THE TAO WITH BUDDHISM. THEY ARE DEFINITELY TWO SEPARATE 230 THINGS. MANY BRANCHES OF BUDDHISM QUALIFY AS TRUE RELIGIONS, WHEREAS 231 TAOISM IS A PRACTICE IN DAILY LIFE OF A PHILOSOPHY. I AM A TAOIST AS WELL 232 AS AN ATHIEST. SEE "THE TAO OF PHYSICS" BY FRITJOF CAPRA. 233 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 234 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 1318 24-OCT-1983 [][][][][] 235 236 I may have misunderstood something, but are we not somewhat responsible for the 237 problems in Africa already ? By indiscriminately decreasing the infant mortality 238 rate with modern medicine and teaching, we have opened the door to child and 239 teenager starvation. I don't have the answer, but where do we stop the cycle. 240 241 The death of over 200 marines in Lebanon leaves me very sad. As a conservative, 242 I feel that Reagan's economic policies are OK. His foreign policies make me glad 243 I did not vote for him. I am truly sorry that I in some small way was responsible 244 for the deaths through my inaction or lack of proper understanding. 245 246 CYM: Re airwaves. At last we agree on something. 247 248 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] djj [][][][][][][][][][][][][] 249 250 <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> 251 252 someone talk to me! maybe this flashy border will help............ 253 254 255 well, Dragon Lady, is there any chance that I have stumbled 256 across the source of magic? Or just lucky coincidence??????? 257 258 Aaron 259 <<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>> 260 djj: ACTUALLY, THERE'S DAMN LITTLE MEDICINE AND TEACHING IN MOST PARTS OF 261 AFRICA. IN ANY CASE, LETTING THEM DIE AS TOTS SO THEY WOULDN'T DIE LATER 262 IS THE DING-AN-SICH OF DRACONIAN MEASURES. 263 BUT SPEAKING OF REACTIONS, HOW COME YOU SEEM SO HEARTLESS WHEN DISCUSS- 264 ING THE FATE OF MILLIONS OF BLACKS (SHOUILDN'T HAVE SAVED THEM IN THE FIRST 265 PLACE) AND SO SAD WHEN TALKING ABOUT EUROPEAN DEAD? SOLDIERS AT THAT? 266 267 Aaron: WAS THAT BORDER A CARTIER? 268 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE THERAPUTIC FAILURE!!!!!!!! 269 270 EXIT 271 272 273 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 274 I think the Marines should flood the enemy areas with sleeping gas and captre 275 all of the remaining enemies. That way they wouldn't be violating (at least 276 violently) their peace keeping mission and peace *would* come about. Of course, 277 the Soviets would complain about it, the enemies would complain about it, 278 and everyone who likes Marines to get killed or the U.S. to get killed would 279 complain about it, but wouldn't it show at least some people that the U.S. 280 meant business? Maybe it'd show me to keep my big mouth shut before some of 281 you out there close it for me... 282 - - - - - - - - Mad Quark - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 283 =========================================== 284 I like the idea of taking what you want... 285 I'm big...really though you miss the 286 point of the whole thing i was trying to 287 point out...If the money is responsible for the disease,pest.,famines,etc.. 288 then those with the money are the ones responsible...not me 289 so why not concern myself with my own little 290 world and how I can create in it what I want and not 291 worry about anyone else...Christianity...drugs... 292 Is it not everyones right to the pursuit of happiness? 293 At least until you start infringing on others? 294 Damn right!! How can we condemn anything that makes 295 a person happy as long as he keeps it to himself? 296 It is when it starts running over into my life 297 that I find it repulsive...like I can see that crap on Cable... 298 ie. Oral Roberts:Jimmy Swaggert etc. I think Jerry Falwell summed it up 299 real good: 300 "send me your $200 gift and I'll send you these four books" 301 ========================== a pathy ======================= 302 303 .......................................... 304 Anon, I call you a parasite because you use the benfits of society 305 and claim no payment is needed. This is theft. 306 Don't accuse religion for the wars in the Middle East. All factions there 307 have good claim to the land they are fighting for, as their ancestors were 308 thrown off it by force of arms. Unfortunately they also got it that way. 309 Among the many differences between the factions are their religions, or 310 their sects; these become handy handles to call them by. The religions all 311 preach peace and brotherhood, but the society teaches grab what you can, 312 and pay no heed to the cost to others. Note well that the guns come from 313 outside: the US, Russia, France, etc sell to all comers. If you nuke all 314 the arms suppliers the world would be a lot more peaceful, but very quiet 315 because there would be no people here, or anything else living. 316 DOM, I can't speak for Japan, I've never been there. But I can speak for 317 Korea, where they will steal you blind and then take your shirt when you 318 are not looking, or of Mexico where even the Federales are after you, 319 since a rich US touristas are good targets. On the other hand, there 320 is little crime in the traditional areas of Saudia Arabia. I don't want 321 to live there, though. In old Arabia crime doesn't pay. It is a small, 322 closed world where it is hard to get away with something, and hard to sell 323 what you stole, there is little to steal. In such a fixed society you 324 cannot rise above your birth. Punishment when caught is severe and swift: 325 cut off the hand for theft, caught twice you starve as no one will feed 326 someone without hands. There is strong public acceptance of the system, and 327 the criminal is absolutely rejected. Both their religion and there society 328 stress honesty highly. All this is changing as the outside world enters 329 and breaks down there culture. 330 Aaron: what did you do to put a line at the middle of a clear screen? 331 Fortunately I missed what ever it was. I get tabs, but not form feeds. 332 Stay away from escape sequences, please. 333 Dom, again, you asked for a repeat on the comment about divorce. It is 334 available in the USA. Although you seem to beleive it evil, I see it as 335 only admitting the failure of two people to live together, and finding 336 a better life separately. Parting is grief, but living together and hating 337 it is worse. It si often not possible elsewhere. 338 As to the excising of drones, etc: the world's population can not keep 339 increasing forever. Do we want to kill a few million now, or wait until 340 billions die in the next big crash? Not a pretty choice, but ignoring it 341 is choosing the latter. 342 ///////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 343 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 344 345 no escape sequences, BAD, just mirrors (or LF's, since I can guess that 346 whoever gets the tabs is probably working on a 25 line machine....quite 347 harmless.......if anyone had the real dedication to, they could make 348 my equipment here light up like a christmas tree....all '232 controlled) 349 350 if tabs are OK, I will continue using them. But how about LF's?? 351 TEST 1 (what does your machine do?) a "Form Feed" 352 353 end test 1 354 TEST 2 (30 line feeds) 355 356 end test 2 357 the effect of the FF will vary with the PX setting...so I would guess 358 that it isn't teribly reliable....yet LF's may be a good way to conserve 359 space on the system.....you can put up to 127 LF's on a single line.... 360 361 any opinions/comments???? 362 Aaron 363 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 364 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 365 366 Ok, where was I......... 367 368 Aaron: When you were incapacitated with modemitis, I related my views 369 regarding the relationship between the doctrines of Christianity (which also 370 applies to the majority of organized religions I have studied) and morality. 371 Since your last message (on last disk, that is) addresses that subject, I 372 will recapitulate. 373 It has been my experience that most Christians I have known, parti- 374 cularly the emphatic and vocal ones, have reported having been "living in 375 sin" prior to their conversion. The details of these reports include 376 everything from shoplifting and peeping to rape and murder. I have main- 377 tained that the reason for this pattern is that a weakness of character 378 that prevented them from developing a sense of morality from within, allows 379 them to accept out of desperation the guidance they lack from any author- 380 itative body willing to give it. If they should choose a psychologist, 381 psychiatrist, psychoanalist, etc., they may well benefit to the extent 382 of developing morals and resuming normal life. Unfortunately, christians 383 are much more abundant and availing than the above professionals. So 384 they are likely to find guidance in 385 Christian doctrine (or whatever religion they happen to stumble 386 into first). Therefore, that doctrine does not provide morality, it re- 387 places it. Admittedly, these doctrines often parallel many of the con- 388 cepts of morality shared by the society affected. (Example: Christian 389 doctrine and American society) So it would seem that whether the guidance 390 is from moral or religious origin is of little consequence. For some re- 391 ligions this may be true, but Christianity (as it exists today) 392 comes complete with the following 393 general disclaimer: 394 This religion offers no warranty whatsoever, either impicit or explicit, 395 that its "sheep" are free from "sin", because the forgiving nature 396 of its deity precludes the necessity of such discipline. 397 This little added attraction for the confused and bemuddled, accounts for 398 the prevalance of hypocrisy among Christians. 399 So, my proposal is that organized atheism may well provide a logical 400 alternative for those who are in need of guidance. It would be the func- 401 tion of this organization to provide only enough guidance that they might 402 realize morality comes not from books (bible, book of mormon, etc.), but 403 from within; and that reality must be discerned by the individual, not by 404 religious dogma. 405 Lest anyone be terribly offended, I would like to make clear that 406 I have no personal animousity toward Christians. I have not only friends, 407 but also relative that fit into that category. The above mentioned weak- 408 ness is not the fault of the individual, but results from the pressures 409 of society, which may be alleviated only by increased moral conciousness. 410 A victim of society is no more to blame for his weakness than a victim 411 of influenza for puking. 412 413 Alex: I will be interested in the results of your inquiry. 414 415 '.....': I must confess a certain distaste for the Iranians I have 416 encountered thusfar, but the attitude that has aroused such distaste is 417 the one you have just expressed. 418 419 Leonard: Do you recall that in your childhood (I hope you appreciate my 420 passing up of a wonderful opportunity for a nasty interjection), that you 421 believed there was a space between the Earth and sky, and colored your 422 Crayola landscapes accordingly. This seemed to be a natural consequence 423 of the sky being up and the Earth being down. Do you still believe that? 424 Hopefully not, because someone cared enough about your generation and 425 those to follow, to stand in front of a class, day after day, with minimal 426 compensation and teach you the concepts of reality. Do you resent that 427 person for interfering with your beliefs? I have not suggested extermin- 428 ation, internment or forced deprogramming; only education for those who 429 seek it. How, may I ask, is that a detriment to society? 430 431 Hrothgar: Thank you for your response. I agree that the efforts of an 432 individual would be futile in such a large endeavor; this is why I thought 433 that organization might be beneficial. I too regret that there are those 434 who find survival difficult to impossible, but what saddens me more is 435 that by treating the symptoms we are only alleviating the pain while we 436 are able to maintain treatment; but if we kill the virus, we have cured the 437 disease. I will have to rely on your expertise regarding political wedges, 438 as my political inclinations are severely lacking. 439 440 Monty II: I forgot what you said (and I think it has been archived) 441 but whatever it was I liked it. 442 443 DJJ: I am in total agreement with your assessment of the "endless cycle" 444 dilema. 445 446 BAD: (again) 447 With regard to Mexico, I couldn't agree with you more, and with 448 regard to Korea and Saudi Arabia, I know not, so I will take your word 449 for it. But anyway, my point was that for you to say that the US is the 450 best country is as much a fallacy as if I said it was the worst. Since 451 neither of us are familiar with all countries and since there is no uni- 452 versal set of values, all we can say for sure is that with respect to 453 your values, the US is better than Korea, Mexico and Saudi Arabia; and 454 with respect to mine Japan is better than US, Canada and Mexico. 455 I consider it immoral (which I guess is the same thing as evil) to 456 make commitments without the intention of upholding them. Why do you equate 457 marriage and living together; the latter requires no commitments. If all 458 that a person requires from a relationship is cohabitation, then why not 459 simply cohabitate. I see no reason to utter the vows "for better or for 460 worse, 'til death do us part" if what you really mean is "'til I get bored 461 or find a better bed partner" unless someone is trying to deceive themselves 462 or somebody else. Hypocrisy manifests itself not only in the church, but 463 in the society which it devised. 464 465 d: Are you perchance the same person as Deborah? 466 467 Dirty Ol' Man 468 469 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 470 471 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 472 473 Thanks for the re-iteration, DOM, (can I call you "Dirty" ?); modemitis 474 having been eradicated from my system (I plug the '232 connector in my 475 belly-button and whistle the proper tones into the telephone), I should be 476 able to keep on top of things before they get immortalized in Mike's Magical 477 Mystery Disks.....I would assume that he suitibly filters his data before 478 translating it to 8" format, and wonder if it would be possible to get a 479 copy of the contents of the current archive if I supplied the necessary 480 media. (yes, Mike?) 481 482 Perchance organized atheism is also precisely what I suggested; maybe 483 some smart aethistic type realized that morals really DO come from divine 484 sources, yet realized that some wouldn't believe this, so he set up organ- 485 ized atheism to convinces those people that the morals existed WITHIN them, 486 thus achieving the same effect. 487 488 why am I so mentally splattered tonight? must have been the combination 489 the late hour and the 2 oz. of refined sugar I just consumed....Anyone 490 out there have any data correlating blood-sugar levels with telecomunication 491 incompitence??? 492 493 **************** ALL BACKWATER USERS ****************** 494 495 I DESPARATLY NEED SOME SMART PEOPLE TO TALK WITH IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS... 496 497 498 1. 10k/100k ECL system design.... 499 2. wide-word bit-slice implementations...... 500 3. Accoustic signal processing 501 4. Computer/person music synthesis.... 502 5. Multi-dimensional FFT and digital convolution..... 503 504 I am not without means in these areas, and I am not trying to leave 505 the impression that I am looking for a techno-baby sitter..just someone 506 who Knows Of Which They Speak, and wouldn't mind chatting with someone 507 who (with any luck, will soon) Know Somewhat Of Which They Speak.. 508 509 i think my blood glucose level is stabilizing....(but not my spelling..) 510 511 Yes..Ahem...Much better....Oh yes, my request.. 512 513 Specificly, I am formulating the tools necessary to begin construction 514 on my dream-project: The general-purpose, handy-dandy, chrome-plated 515 audio signal processing peripheral. You name it, it does it. Quickly. 516 517 I hope to come up with at least ONE thing innovative in my project; 518 and I have already succeeded (maybe..). I seem to have run across a 519 way to eliminate Gibbs phenomena with sufficent processing power. Really. 520 No windows. Just lots of whetstones. 521 522 Please leave any leads or contact data right here, on this very system. 523 I figure that my chances on the BW are higher than on the other systems; 524 mainly beacause i'm flying on some iced tea i conentrated by an order 525 of magnitude (you know that pre-sugare/lemoned Lipton stuff..num-num), 526 and will undoubtedly get around to posting my request on CBBS, yet until 527 my metabolism stabilizes (and my spelling) BW will do. 528 529 recipe: 530 Aaron's pancreatic panacea 531 532 ingredients: 533 1 well-rounded tablespoon pre-sweetened Lipton's 534 1 cup microwaved water (just below steaming) 535 536 instructions: 537 mix well. sip expresso-style. vomit judiciously. 538 539 Aaron 540 <><><><><><><><><><>and to all a good night..<><><><><><><><><><><><>0427<> 541 Sugar?!! Who are you kidding, Aaron? 542 543 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 544 Atheists: Why do you choose to deny the existence of a God? Why is an 545 organization of atheists any less oppressive than an organization of 546 ,say, pantheistic deists? 547 Why not endorse part of the agnostic approach--do not deny the existence of 548 a God, but merely accept that knowing the Deity may be manifested in many 549 different ways? Couldn't that be more peaceful, polite, and humane? 550 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave the Humbug ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 551 Aaron: 552 First, you start on the common stuff: sucrose. Then, you graduate to the 553 heavy stuff: Glucose, fructose, levulose, lactose, mannose, and all the other illicit sugars. I know. I was a sugar 554 addict too. Then I got religion! Saw a movie called "Sucrose Madness," where some poor schmuck kills his girlfriend 555 after she runs off with his bag of C+H. Finally, he's cured. 556 557 BAD: 558 I never even brought up the subject of the Middle East. I try to stay away from there (and so far, I have succeeded). 559 Try to label your responses so we know to whom you are responding...... 560 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::: 561 Why are we in Lebanon anyway ????? 562 563 -------- 564 think about HBO suing everyone with pirate antennas??? Do the 565 pirateers have the right to do what they are doing??? 566 567 speak up people....it might be channel 2,6,8,10,12,22, or 49 568 that are next!! 569 ---------- 570 }~ 571 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 572 WOW!!! I FINALLY GOT ON! EITHER WE HAVE PICKED UP A NUMBER OF WATCHERS 573 RECENTLY, OR THE SYSTEM IS SITTING THERE USING ITSELF. I EVEN TRIED AT 574 3:30 AM, AND IT WAS BUSY. MIKEY, YOU ARE GETTING VERY POPULAR. 575 576 BAD & ANON, THE SUBJECT OF THE RULES OF ARGUMENT, REASON, AND LOGIC IS A 577 DEAD DOG I'VE BEATEN ALL TOO OFTEN, SO I HESITATE TO SET FOOT UPON THAT 578 ROAD AGAIN. BUT ANON'S PLEA SHOULDN'T GO UNANSWERED, AND IF EVERYONE CAN 579 KEEP THEIR STOMACHS QUIET, I CAN PONTIFICATE ONCE MORE. 580 581 "I can only judge by your statements, which are those of a self-centered 582 parasite." BAD, IF YOU CAN ONLY JUDGE BY HIS (I ASSUME "HIS") STATEMENTS, 583 THEN IT IS ONLY HIS STATEMENTS YOU CAN JUDGE. ANYTHING ELSE IS AD HOMINEM. 584 I'M NOT COMMENTING ON YOUR OR ANON'S STATEMENTS, MERELY UPON YOUR RHETORIC. 585 ALSO, THOUGH I AGREE THAT SUCH ABUSIVENESS IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, I MUST 586 ALSO SAY THAT YOU HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF SIMILAR TACTICS, ANON. ANY ALL- 587 INCLUSIVE STATEMENTS USED AS AN ATTACK ("YOU LIBERALS", "YOUR KIND OF 588 PEOPLE", ETC.) MUST ALSO QUALIFY. JUST REMEMBER: ATTACK THE STATEMENTS OF 589 THOSE WITH WHOM YOU DISAGREE, BUT NOT THE INDIVIDUAL. 590 591 AARON, YES THAT'S THE FLICK! THOUGH YOUR TONE SHOWS SOME DEGREE OF 592 SARCASM, I FEEL THE MOVIE SHOWED DARING ON THE PART OF ALL INVOLVED IN ITS 593 ATTEMPT TO SHOW EASTERN THOUGHT AND PHILOSOPHY IN A POSITIVE LIGHT DURING 594 A TIME WHEN "YELLOW PERIL" AND OTHER TERMS LESS POLITE DESCRIBED WESTERN 595 ATTITUDES. 596 HROTHGAR, THE AMOUNT OF PHILOSOPHY THE MOVIE CONTAINED WAS TYPICAL OF 597 MOVIES, MEANING VERY LITTLE COMPARED TO THE BOOK. THEN AS NOW, PRODUCERS 598 OF TV AND MOVIES HAD TO AVOID PHILOSOPHY TO VERY GREAT DEGREES WHEN THE 599 HEAD OF THE STUDIO WANTS SOMETHING LABELED ACTION/ADVENTURE. BUT THEY WERE 600 ABLE TO SNEAK SOME OF IT PAST, AND IT IS WHAT THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THROUGH 601 THAT MADE THE MOVIE MEMORABLE. 602 AARON (AGAIN), ON THE "99%" STATEMENTS, IF SUCH A SYSTEM EXISTED, I 603 DON'T THINK IT COULD INCLUDE THE CONCEPT OF HOSTILITY TOWARD ALL CONTRACEPTION 604 THAT MOST FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIONS SEEM TO HAVE, AS OVER-POPULATION IS A 605 MAJOR CONTRIBUTOR TO THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD. NOR DO I THINK THAT BASING 606 A WORLD'S SOCIAL STRUCTURE UPON A FOUNDATION OF LIES IS A VIABLE CONCEPT IF 607 THE ELIMINATION OF 90% OF THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS IS THE OBJECTIVE. THOSE THAT 608 BELIEVE THE LIE BUT LATER DISCOVER THE TRUTH WILL FEEL SUCH RESENTMENT THAT 609 THEY WOULD BEGIN TO CONTRIBUTE TO A BREAKDOWN OF THE STRUCTURE OF SOCIETY. 610 THEY WOULD BEGIN TO PROSELYTIZE, TO PREY UPON THE DISSATISFACTION THAT SOME 611 FEEL NO MATTER HOW GOOD THINGS ARE, AND VERY SOON THE 90% AND 99% FIGURES 612 WOULD NOT EXIST. THIS SYSTEM CALLS FOR A BELIEF IN THE BASIC GOODNESS OF 613 HUMANITY THAT I JUST DON'T POSSESS, SINCE FOR IT TO WORK, THOSE THAT KNOW 614 THE TRUTH MUST REMAIN SILENT AND NOT USE THE INFORMATION FOR THEIR OWN 615 BENEFIT. ALSO, THE LINEFEEDS AND TABS DEPEND UPON WHAT TERMINAL PROGRAM I 616 USE. THE FREE, PUBLIC DOMAIN PROGRAMS I HAVE IGNORE THE TABS AND LINEFEEDS 617 (ALSO FORM FEEDS). BUT WHEN I USE MY PROGRAM THAT EMULATES AN ADM-3A, THEY 618 COME THROUGH. 619 620 ON THE QUESTION OF HBO, I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THAT, AS THE AIRWAVES ARE 621 MEANT TO BE PUBLIC, ANYTHING BROADCAST UPON THEM SHOULD BE IN THE PUBLIC 622 DOMAIN. THESE COMPANIES ARE SQUATTERS, ESTABLISHING A POSITION UPON THEIR 623 FREQUENCIES, AND THEN CLAIMING THEY OWN THEM. IF THIS MODULATED EMF IS 624 PRIVATE PROPERTY, THEN I DEMAND THEY REMOVE THEIR PROPERTY FROM MY HOME AND 625 KEEP IT OUT. I WANT THEM TO STOP THEIR PROPERTY FROM BOMBARDING MY BODY. 626 PERHAPS I SHOULD SUE FOR TRESSPASS, MALICIOUS MISCHIEF, AND VANDALISM (SHE SAYS, TONGUE IN CHEEK). IF EVERYONE STARTS 627 TAKING THEIR "PRODUCT" FOR FREE, IT LEAVES THEM WHERE THEY BELONG, ON CABLE. I'M OUT OF SPACE!! TILL NEXT TIME... 628 629 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]