FILE ON MARGIN IS 79 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 629 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ********************* REMOVED: 19 OCT 83 *************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 25 ########################################D.J.J. : 26 SO YOU THINK CONSERVATISM IS THE BUSINESS OF MAKING LARGER STICKS. IF THIS IS 27 TRUE THEN CONSIDER THE GARDENER WITH A ZUCCINI PLANT: HE CAN PICK THE FRUIT WHEN 28 IT IS RIPE AND EDIBLE OR HE CAN LEAVE IT ON THE VINE TILL IT IS SO LARGE THAT IT 29 CANNOT BE OF ANY USE TO ANYONE SAVE A MENTION AT THE LOCAL FAIR. I DON' FIND 30 THIS TO BE THE CASE HOWEVER. WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS IS THEY PICK THE FRUIT TOO 31 SOON AND CHARGE A TOTALLY RIDICULOUS PRICE FOR IT. THIS IS OF COURSE THE OTHER 32 EXTREME. CONSERVATIVES ARE FAMOUS FOR THEIR EXTREMES. LIBERALS ON THE OTHER HAND 33 ARE USUALLY INTERESTED IN THE WELFARE NOT ONLY OF THE MASSES BUT OF THE GARDENER 34 TOO. PICK YOUR FRUIT WHILE IT IS AT ITS PEAK, NOT TO SOON NOR TOO LATE, GET A 35 FAIR PRICE FOR YOUR LABORS. THIS ISN'T ALWAYS THE CASE BUT THEN WHEN IS SOME- 36 THING EVER TRUE TO ITS COURSE. AS TO THE MATTER OF LUCK. YOU SHOULD DO A LITTLE 37 REASEARCH INTO THE SUBJECT. LUCK IS DEFINATELY A VIABLE ITEM IN TODAYS WORLD. NO 38 ONE MAKES IT ON HIS OWN. I DON'T CARE HOW HARD YOU WORK, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE 39 OTHERS TO CREDIT FOR YOUR SUCCESS AND IF YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT THEN I PITTY 40 YOUR SELF-CENTERED LITTLE MIND, AND UN- 41 GRATEFUL ATTITUDE IN LIFE. 42 SORRY, I SHOULD NOT HAVE USED THE WORD PITY AS IT DOES NOT APPLY IN YOUR CASE. 43 CONTEMPT! YES THATS A BETTER DISCRIPTION OF MY FEELINGS TOWARD YOUR "CONSERV- 44 ITIVE VIEWS AND MENTAL ABILITY" 45 46 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/14 9:54AM############# 47 I hate to tell you this, but the attitudes of most "liberals" 48 seem to be closer to DJJ's appraisal than to yours. As for "conservatives" 49 don't assume that what he is calling a conservative is what you are 50 calling a conservative. (by the way, I was NOT attributing anything to 51 you, after replying to one of your comments I broke the text & 52 started a general comment. Sorry if the break wasn't clear enough) 53 I don't agree that all "conservatives" meet DJJ's description, but 54 anyone who does will probably wind up being labeled a "conservative". 55 Too many "liberals" are best described by the attitude "all men are 56 equal" with the unspoken corrolary "if they aren't then we'll MAKE them 'equal'" 57 One of the prime "liberal" "achievments" are the equal opportunity 58 laws. I'm all for equal opportunity, I've gotten rejected for jobs 59 for no "real" reason myself. But the "liberals" seem to think that 60 "equal opportunity" will mean "equal success", thus the various 61 quota systems (and the Bakshi decision etc). I'm sorry, we AREN'T 62 EQUAL!!! Everyone is better than other people at some things and 63 worse at others. The spirit of "all men are created equal" is best 64 served by recognizing that ABILITY is the only way to judge someone's 65 fitness for a job. Unfortunately, all we are going for is equal 66 numbers (sorry "proportionate"). I have heard of cases where a job 67 CANNOT be filled under the federal guidelines because NONE of the 68 qualified persons belonged to a minority & the company didn't 69 have "enough" minority workers. This has, on occasion, resulted in 70 hiring a "token" minority person to "front" for an assistant who 71 really does the work. 72 I'm not about to claim that the "typical conservative" is better, 73 but they aren't much worse. The "conservatives" have caused many 74 problems, but the "liberals" show a real talent(?) for coming up 75 with solutions that are worse than the original problem! Civil service regs 76 are an example. There was a problem- getting good workers for government 77 jobs - does anyone think that the "solution" is working better? 78 Or, if you think that taxing the rich at higher rates to provide 79 for the poor is a workable idea, I suggest you check into the situation 80 in Britain or Sweden (a few years ago there was a news item regarding 81 the "unintentional" effect of a new Swedish tax law, it made the 82 tax rate for people earning above a certain amount 105%!). People 83 are leaving both countries because success in business (or whatever) 84 is actively penalized by the tax structure. I can see reasons for 85 a Minumum income below which you don't have to pay taxes or even 86 a "negative income tax" that would encourage people below the 87 "minimum" to try to earn money. But why DIS-courage people from 88 making money, after all, even at a "flat-rate" tax the more they 89 make the more the government gets. 90 I could go on about other "liberal" idiocies, but why bother? one 91 of the traits of these self-proclaimed "liberals" is that they 92 seem to feel that anyone who can't see how "right" they are is 93 is stupid or else cynically trying to stop them for personal gain. 94 ("Obviously", I have something to gain from suppressing minorities 95 & exploiting tax loopholes, etc or I would be arguing against these 96 "good & beneficial" liberal policies) (by the way, does anyone 97 out there remember the story of the farmer who tried to save money 98 by feeding his donkey less?) 99 _______________________________Leonard__________________________ 100 101 DEAR SIR 102 103 AS TO YOUR ADDITUDE TOWARDS LIBERALS I BLEAVE YOU HAVE MADE A VERY 104 GOOD POINT. IN FACT THE PROCES OF MACKING ALL PEOPLE "EQUAL" THE PEOPLE ALOWYS L 105 LOUSE OUT IN THE END. IF A SCOITEY IS ALL EQUAL AND THE 106 SAME THEN IT RUNS THE RISK OF BECAOMING STAGINET AND 107 DIEING IN IT'S OWN FILTH. 108 109 SENCERLY 110 MA YUAN 111 P.S. PARDON THE SPELLING 112 113 YOU ASSHOLES REALLY GET INTO YOUR ARGUMENTS ABOUT LIBERALS AND CONSERV 114 VEAS WHY DONT YOU CYUT THE BULLSHIT AND ENTER NORMAL MESSAGES LIKE 115 EVERY ONE ELSE eg. FOR SALE or NEED HELP WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING IS PURE 116 UNEQUALED BULLSHIT. 117 THE SCRIBBLER LIVES ON!!!!! 118 119 120 }[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 121 WELL, THIS ARGUMENT IS GETTING A LITTLE VIOLENT, SO I THINK I WILL STAY 122 OUT OF IT FOR NOW. 123 MIKEY, I'M GLAD TO KNOW THAT I WAS MISSED! THE LAST 2 WEEKS HAVE 124 BEEN HARROWING TO SAY THE LEAST, AND I WAS NEARLY LOST IN MORE WAYS THAN 125 ONE. I PEEKED IN A FEW TIMES, BUT THE TOPIC WAS TAXES, AND I'VE SAID 126 ALL I WANTED TO ON THAT ONE, AND NOBODY WAS SAYING ANYTHING NEW, SO I 127 JUST KEPT QUIET. THIS CONVERSATION IS GETTING OUT OF HAND, WITH EACH 128 SIDE ATTEMPTING TO DEFINE THE OTHER IN A WAY THAT IS THE MOST INSULTING. 129 NOT MUCH IS GOING TO BE ACCOMPLISHED AT THIS RATE UNLESS SOME OF YOU ARE 130 WILLING TO GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT, AND GET AWAY FROM THE NAME-CALLING. 131 OH, YES, TO THE PERSON WANTING THIS BBS TO BE A "FOR SALE" TYPE BOARD, IF 132 YOU HAVE SOMETHING FOR SALE, TELL US! I DON'T, SO DON'T EXPECT ME TO PUT 133 THAT SORT OF MESSAGE ON. YOU MAY THINK THAT ALL OF THIS IS "BULLSHIT" 134 (TO USE YOUR EUPHEMISM), BUT I DON'T. I FIND THIS BOARD TO BE AN UNIQUE 135 METHOD TO EXCHANGE IDEAS, ONE THAT CAN'T BE FOUND ELSEWHERE. WHEN YOU 136 PLACE YOUR IDEAS HERE, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS YOUR ABILITY TO 137 EXPRESS THEM, AND WHAT THEY ARE. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. IF YOU DON'T WANT 138 ANYONE TO KNOW YOUR AGE, GENDER, RACE, RELIGION, HEIGHT, LOOKS, ETC., 139 YOU ARE SAFE. ALL THAT MATTERS IS YOUR IDEAS. SO, WAKE UP AND LET US 140 HEAR SOMETHING FROM YOU! WELL, OTHER THAN "BULLSHIT" THAT IS. 141 142 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][] 143 P.S. THANKS AGAIN, MIKEY, ITS NICE TO BE WANTED! 144 145 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 146 147 148 TO: THE SCRIBBLER 149 RE: SUBJECT MATTER 150 151 I THINK THIS BULLETIN BOARD HAS A WELL DEFINED PURPOSE, THE PROMOTION OF INTERACTION AND SHARING. I AM TRULY SORRY 152 THAT YOU FEEL THE NEED FOR ANOTHER 'FOR SALE' TYPE BULLETIN BOARD. I HOPE YOU CONTINUE TO AT LEAST READ, HOWEVER. 153 SINCERELY, 154 DJJ 155 156 157 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 158 TO: CYM 159 RE: CURRENT TOPIC 160 161 I DO NOT SAY THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN HELPED IN MY SUCCESS BY OTHERS, BUT RATHER THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN DEFEATED BY 'BAD BREAKS' 162 NOR MADE BY 'GOOD BREAKS'. MY MAIN POINT IS THAT LUCK IS HIGHLY OVERRATED. IN YOUR REPEATED REFERENCE TO SINGLE 163 EXAMPLES NOT BEING WORTHY OF MENTION, I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE. IT IS THE VERY FACT THAT SO MANY CAN SUCCEED AGAINST 164 SEEMINGLY IMPOSSIBLE ODDS THAT SHOW WITHOUT QUESTION WHAT AN AVERAGE PERSON CAN DO AGAINST NORMAL ODDS SUCH AS BIRTHRIGHT 165 OR LACK OF EDUCATION OR LACK OF CAPITAL OR ETC. I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW A PERSON FROM AN OPPRESSED COUNTRY MIGHT HAVE A CASE, 166 BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES, WHERE INDIVIDUAL INITIATIVE HAS NOT BEEN LEGISLATED AWAY. 167 I ACKNOWLEDGE THE HELP I HAVE RECEIVED FROM A MULTITUDE OF PEOPLE, YOURSELF INCLUDED. WITHOUT SUCH INPUT TO SPARK MY 168 MIND, IT WOULD BE A DULL PLACE INDEED. 169 170 LASTLY, AN APOLOGY. I HAVE HAD SOME MALICE EVIDENT IN MY COMMUNICATION. I ASSURE YOU IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL, AND 171 CERTAINLY NOT PERSONAL. I WILL WATCH MYSELF IN THE FUTURE. I AM VERY SORRY IF YOU FELT A PERSONAL ATTACK. 172 173 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] DJJ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 1324 13-OCT-84 174 175 everyone here seems to think there are only two kinds of people, liberals and conservatives. I consider myself to be 176 of the road. I have many conservative views but consider myself liberal in many ways. 177 It is disapointing that the political party system ibn this country has polarized itself. 178 There are very few politicians who are truly middle of the road. If they are they are penalized by their respective 179 party. John Glenn comes close to being in the middle but he will probably no get the nomination because the old time 180 democratic liberals will keep him from it 181 and elect mondale. This is evidenced by the recent mondale endoresment by the afl-cio. 182 ###################DSS################## 183 184 185 Hiya, d. Back again. 'Ja get settled? Dave 186 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 187 ********** 188 TALKING ABOUT LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES, WHAT 'ABOUT COMMIES? 189 ********** 190 How many commies does it take to screw in a light bulb? 191 192 None, commies prefer working in the dark. 193 194 ######################################## WELL HATE TO TELL ALL OF YOU THIS BUT YOUR BOTH RIGHT WE ARE ALL CREATED EQUIL 195 EXCEPT FOR THE DIFFERENCES WE CREATE OURSELVES. SOME OF US DEVELOPE MENTALY AND 196 197 INTELECTUALY AT DIFFERENT RATES SOME DON'T EVEN MAKE IT SOME ARE AGRESIVE SOME 198 seems to me that ya all aren't to generous to others yourownselves*****pww***** 199 200 MIGHT TRY THE SYSTEM FIRST BEFORE YOU SLANDER> SEEMS LIKE WHAT EVER YA WANT TO SAY YA CAN> GOOD IDEA!! 201 =A WATCHER= 202 203 204 nOTHING IS RIGHT OR WRONG BUT 205 THINKING MAKES IT SO. 206 207 sO WHY DON'T YOU GUYS STOP 208 THINKING AND USE THE BBS AS A 209 PLACE FOR ADVERTISEMENTS AND 210 SUCH? 211 212 213 //// THE WHIP 214 215 ================================ 216 did you know that mondale has se 217 selected his v.p. candidate? 218 dolly parton...... 219 the ticket will be called tits 220 and fritz and the slogan will be 221 "vote for the 3 boobs" 222 ################################ 223 224 225 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 226 Well said Leonard!!!!!!! I consider myself neither liberal or conservative, but I conclude that recently (within the last 227 20 or so years) liberals have been more damaging and dangerous than conservatives. This was a change from the past, when the 228 opposite seemed to be true. The problem, I believe, is that once liberals became powerful enough to pass laws, they couldn't 229 resist the temptation to 'get back' at all the un-nice people who were in power before. 230 There is a difference, I believe, in 'doing right' and 'being nice.' I can't believe, for example, that a shopkeeper 231 should be forced by the government to serve all people. "Blasphemy!," I hear the liberals cry! But why should I, having inv 232 ested by hard-earned money in a venture of my own choosing, not forcing anyone to do business with me, be forced to do 233 business with somebody else? And here is where the difference between 'right' and 'nice' comes in: Sure, I'm notbeing 234 'nice' to a person if I refuse to serve him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he actually has a RIGHT to my services. 235 Liberals tend to believe that if an act isn't NICE, laws should be passed to prohibit it, even if the un-nice person 236 in question has every right to do that. Another good example is in schools. Private schools are a voluntary association 237 of individuals for the purpose of education. There is no reason that such schools should be forced to accept any particular 238 student, even if such rejection would be un-nice. 239 To be sure, conservatives have similar problems. They tend to legislate morality, passing laws against drug use, 240 prostitution, gambling, and a host of others. In this way, liberals and conservatives appear nearly alike: Each has certain 241 likes and dislikes, BUT BOTH TEND TO FEEL THAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD PASS LAWS TO FORCE THE REST OF THE WORLD TO 'TOE THE LINE' 242 AND ACT THE WAY THEY WANT YOU TO ACT. 243 That's the big mistake. I have my likes and dislikes too, but I don't claim to have any right to pass laws forcing 244 my preferences on others. Most of the rest of the world (and most people in this country) consider government to be 245 mallet to bash one's enemies with when one is in power, and to be bashed with when one is out of power. Eventually they 246 will see that this game of attack and counter-attack, manipulation and counter-manipulation is foolish, stupid, wasteful, 247 deceptive, unfair, and particularly childish. They will know that government's only permissible function is the maintenance 248 of a society that we can all live in, free from force or fraud, in totally voluntary cooperation with each other. 249 250 At this time, as I said, I consider liberals to be more dangerous, because they are attempting to set up a system where it 251 is difficult or impossible to achieve more by working harder (the so-called progressive income tax.) They do this by forcing 252 the productive people to support the non-productive people. This (naturally) encourages non-production, and thus stagnation 253 and deterioration of the society as we know it. 254 255 My message to the liberals has always been this: 256 "Be as liberal as you want to be, as long as you aren't liberal with my money!" 257 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::::::: 258 DO YOU KNOW WHAT GAY STANDS FOR?.... Got Aids Yet. 259 ######################################### 260 Do you know how helen keller burned her hand?....reading the waffle iron 261 ########################################whats blue and squirms in the corner?.. 262 a baby with a bag over its head. 263 whats green and sits in the corner?.... 264 the same baby two weeks later. 265 Dear sirs 266 may I point out to you that a scoity that has no history 267 also has no future. case in point I think that both the 268 liberals and the conservits should look back at the 269 fall of the romen empire and then tack a close look 270 around them selfs. on a diffrent tract what are 271 your views on the innicent by reasons of insainty 272 cop out that is used or missused these days 273 274 still 275 MA YUAN 276 WELL, IT SEEMS WE HAVE SOME BORN AGAIN CONSERVATIVES ESPOUSING THEIR "NEW" VIEWS........... ANY BORN AGAIN REAGANITES ??? 277 AS A PRODUCT OF THE LIBERAL '60 S AND '70 S, I THINKBROADER, MORE MATURE APPROACH TO THE QUESTION AT HAND, IS WARRANTED. 278 THE FIRST CONSIDERATION TO COME TO MIND IS THE CONCEPT OF DYNAMIC SOCIAL CYCLICAL PHENOMENON...... WE HAVE SEEN IT 279 BEFORE AND WE SHALL SEE IT AGAIN...... AS FOR THE IDEA OF "I OWN THE BUSINESS--- I CAN SERVE ANYONE I PLEASE IS OUTRAGEOUS 280 AND IRRESPONSIBLE.... IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE STRUCTURE AND SUPPORT THAT THE GOV'T 281 PROVIDES TO BUSINESSES (I.E.... TRANSPORTATION, BANKING SYSTEMS, ELECTRICAL FACILITIES, 282 BUILDING CODES, AND SO ON), THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANY SMALL BUSINESSES..... THEY WOULD BE EATEN UP IN THE TURMOIL..... 283 AND THAT VERY GOV'T IS MADE UP OF ALL OF US.... THE U. S. IS SORT OF LIKE A BLUE CHIP STOCK... 284 285 286 287 THAT IS, A BLUE CHIP STOCK, THAT WE ALL OWN SHARES OF. ....THESE SHARES ENTITLE US TO CERTAIN PRIVILEDGES 288 ONE OF WHICH IS THAT BUSINESSES (PROFESSIONALS) MUST ADHERE TO ESTABLISHED STANDARDS AND PRACTICES.... BUT SOCIAL EXCLUSION 289 PREJUDICE, SERVES NO PURPOSE TO TO DIVIDE SOCIAL CLASSES FURHTER 290 AND EVENTUALLY LEAD TO FURTHER CORRUPTION ON A MASSIVE SCALE... 291 ALTHOUGH WE MAY BE SUFFERING FOR OUR L 292 THATS LIBERAL APPROACH TO SOLVING INTERNAL PROBLEMS.... IT IS BY FAR 293 IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF ALL INVOLVED...AND IT SHOULD PAY OFF FOR US 294 IN THE LONG RUN...... 295 REMEMBER---WE ARE A MELTING POT....AND IT IS FROM THIS MIX THAT 296 WE HAVE EXCELLED IN THE WORLD ARENA.... LET'S NOT SCREW IT UP NOW BY REVERTI 297 REVERTING TO THE PAST..... LET'S LOOK FORWARD AND NOT BACK..... 298 REALISTICALLY...THE GOOD OLD DAYS WERE NEVER --THAT-- GREAT..... 299 YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD HACKER, 300 ****************************** BIT BRAIN ************ 301 **************************************************************** 302 303 304 it seems we are down to the question of governments. if a government is to rule by majority, the n some people's 305 rights will be abridged, depending on what is the majority view. Perhaps we should consider the principle of anarchy. 306 In that case a lots of people will have their "rights" abridged by other people and not the system, but with anarchy 307 perhaps there are no rights since there is no society to define them. 308 ##############dss##################### 309 310 311 I think an important point should be pointed out. That is, We have exsisted as a nation and a country for 200 years 312 without a significant change in the governing system. I think this is because of the adversary nature of our system 313 no one viewpoint is allowed to dominate because of checks and balance, which depend on a free press, public opinion, 314 and the elective system. A bbs like this contributes to the free exchange of 315 opinion which affects public opinion. If one side does something dirty, it is virulently exposed by the other side or 316 the press and the society will swing back to the middle again. Although this is not perfect, nothing is. Society has conditione 317 itself to be combative, this part of the underlying anarchy of human nature. An example is news reporting, if a 318 reporter reports something favorable about something he is judged to be "on the take" in a way. However if he reports 319 in a negative way, he will be believed. 320 That is why there is a lot of negative reports about the government, which often hinders the business of governing. This 321 is a good example of the nature of our system. 322 323 ################dss#################### 324 325 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 326 327 MA YUAN: Do you speak English too? 328 329 Scribbler & Whip: Why would anyone want ANOTHER advertising BBS in 330 Portland. I think ten is enough, particularly when BWMS is not of 331 the appropriate format for this purpose. If advertisements excite 332 you, I suggest you try one of the following BBS numbers: 333 BEE.......................649-xxxx 334 Bit Bucket................761-xxxx 335 CBBS/NW.......284-xxxx or 646-xxxx 336 PMS.......................245-xxxx 337 PAC.......................245-xxxx 338 R/CPM (Portland)..........621-xxxx 339 R/CPM (Beaverton).........641-xxxx 340 Security..................626-xxxx 341 Sunday Trader.............653-xxxx 342 80+.......................771-xxxx 343 344 I must admit, my political inclinations, also, are limited to nonexist- 345 ant, but I am not terribly stimulated b advertisements either. If you are, 346 why don't you go have an orgasm on one of these other systems. Meanwhile I 347 will patiently watch and wait until the subject changes to philosophy/religion, culture, sex, etc. 348 349 CYM: I'm afraid I must disagree this time. I believe that "luck" and 350 "chance" are abstractions used where the causative agent is not clear, 351 or is not desired to be disclosed. Neither exist in reality; for every 352 phenomenon there is a cause, whether or not it is humanly concievable. 353 I am also of the opinion that there are extremely few who are incapable 354 of providing for themselves, but there are multitudes (particularly in this 355 country) who prefer not to. As to the 356 political implications of this I would not speculate. To the extent that my 357 limited political adeptness will allow me to form opinions, I am largely in 358 agreement. 359 360 To the person with the warped sense of humor: 361 What do you do for entertainment, behead kittens? Please leave your 362 address so those in your neighood with kids can check their halloween candy 363 for rasor blades. 364 365 Dirty Ol' Man 366 367 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 368 369 370 PS: Anyone know how to use IMSAI system at 760-7609??? 371 372 Dirty 373 374 PPS: Is the person with the warped sence of humor perchance Gary 375 Thomas? 376 377 Dirty 378 379 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~ 380 381 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 382 383 RE: Conservativism/liberalism... 384 The cost of nonconformity is inconveniece. 385 386 RE: Bill Boards for ads only... I wn't object to your use of the BWMS 387 for advertisements so... 388 RE: insults... may feel good when there's nothing else to say but it 389 isn't effective communication under most circumstances. 390 RE: 'Bullshit '... it's all relative. 391 RE: Sex... Best regards. 392 RE: Religon... worst regards. 393 RE: politics...not much better. 394 RE: reading a good book...see ya'll 395 later 396 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^cosmo^^^^^^^^^^^^ 397 ***************************************************************** 398 PAM: BUT OF COURSE YOU ARE MISSED! YOURS IS A VOICE OF CALM AMIDST THE 399 INSANITY THAT SEEMS TO HAVE OVER TAKEN BWMS OF LATE. 400 DOM: DO YOU HAVE A PASS WORD FOR THE IMSAI SYSTEM? (IT IS JUST ANOTHER 401 BBS/CPM [RCPM] SYSTEM FOR CERTAIN PRIVATE USERS WITH PASSWORDS.) 402 Leonard: YES, PROBABLY. 403 OTHERS: YAWN.. HOW ABOUT MOVING ON TO ANOTHER SUBJECT? AFTER HEARING THE 404 SAME ARGUMENT FOR THE 20TH TIME IT DOES GET TO BE A BIT BORING.... 405 ANYONE: I'M LOOKING FOR A SOMEONE WHO KNOWS TRS-80'S (2,3,4,12,ECT.) 406 PARTICULARLY THOSE RUNNING CPM. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS. 407 PLEASE LEAVE A NOTE HERE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TALKING. 408 ********** CISTOP MIKEY ********* 15 OCT 83 ******** 10:21AM ********* 409 HOW ABOUT A CHANGE OF SUBJECT? RUMOR HAS IT THAT MA BELL IS THINKING OF 410 CHARGING A SUR CHARGE IF YOU USE A MODEM. WHAT DO YOU THINK? I HAVE HEARD 411 AMOUNTS AS HIGH AS $50 A MONTH. IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ON THIS, YOU 412 MIGHT ALSO LEAVE A NOTE ON CBBS STATING YOUR VIEWS SINCE JIM IS VERY 413 INTERESTED IN THIS TO THE POINT OF DOING BATTLE WITH MA. 414 IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MY VIEW, IT IS SIMPLE: AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE, I 415 HAVE A LIMIT ON WHAT I WILL PAY FOR MY BASE PHONE CHARGES. THAT BEING 416 $50 A MONTH TOTAL. IF IT EXCEEDS THAT I WILL CUT BACK WHERE I CAN UNTIL 417 IT DROPS BELOW THE $50 MARK. SINCE I HAVE TWO LINES, THIS MEANS I HAVE 418 BEEN PAYING $37 A MONTH BASE CHARGE FOR MY PHONES. ($14 FOR BWMS) 419 THE FIRST THING I WILL DO IS CHANGE BWMS TO A METERED LINE. THE NEXT WILL 420 BE TO DROP THE CUSTOM CALLING PACKAGE ON MY VOICE LINE. AND FINALLY ALL 421 ELSE FAILING I WILL DROP BWMS. PERSONALLY I FEEL THERE IS NO REASON TO 422 BE CHARGING A SUR CHARGE FOR USE OF A MODEM. IN FACT, I THINK IT IS A 423 BIT FOOLISH ON MA'S PART TO DO SO SINCE IT WILL SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE 424 THE PRIVATE USE OF MODEMS ON THE PHONE SYSTEM WHICH WILL MEAN LOST INCOME 425 TO HER (PARTICULARLY IF SHE GOES TO AN ALL METERED SERVICE.). MORE 426 IMPORTANTLY THE MAJOR LOSS WILL COME FROM SECONDARD PRIVATE PHONE LINES 427 BEING DROPED BECAUSE OF THE EXCESSIVE COST, AND LOSS OF THE LOCAL LONG 428 DISTANCE REVENUE GENERATED BY THE USERS WHO ARE LONG DISTANCE FROM THE 429 BBS'S. THE REASON FOR THE SUR CHARGE THAT I HAVE BEEN GIVEN SO FAR IS 430 THAT IF YOU HAVE A MODEM, THEN YOU CAN AFORD THE EXTRA CHARGE ON YOUR 431 LINE TO HELP DEFRAY THE COST FOR EVERYONE ELSE USING THE PHONES. WHAT 432 SEEMS TO BE FORGOTTEN IS THAT THIS IS A HOBBY FOR ME AND I CAN NOT AFFORD 433 TO PAY OVER $50 A MONTH FOR A HOBBY! THAT IS MORE THEN I PAY FOR 434 ELECTRICITY! (AND I'M ALL ELECTRIC HERE.) I HAVE A FEELING THAT UNLESS 435 MA WAKES UP SOON AND FIGURES OUT HOW TO PROVIDE PHONE SERVICE AT A 436 REASONABLE COST SHE MAY FIND COMPITITION FOR LOCAL LINES AS WELL... 437 AT $50 A MONTH IT BECOMES A VERY LUCRATIVE BUSINESS, AND THERE WILL 438 BE MANY CLAMORING FOR A PIECE OF THE ACTION. WANT AN EXAMPLE? HOW 439 MUCH ARE YOU PAYING FOR CABLE? (BY THE WAY THAT SYSTEM IS ALREADY 440 LARGLY INSTALLED AND IT WOULD BE FAIRLY EASY TO ADD VOICE CAPABILITY 441 TO IT......) NUFF SAID 442 ********* CISTOP MIKEY ************ 15 OCT 83 ****** 10:48AM ********* 443 Mikey, 444 I know a lot about TRS-80 Model's 1,3 and 4. Any questions? 445 Go ahead and ask me. Call me at 695-xxxx anytime on the 446 weekends or from 4:00pm to 8:30pm on weekdays. 447 448 Chris Bradley 449 Alias, TRON 450 ######################################## 451 REPLACE 452 MIKEY: I UNDERSTAND THAT MA-BELL IS ALREADY CHARGING THE SUR-CHARGE IN THE 453 SOUTH WESTERN STATES LIKE TEXAS. SEEMS THE PHONE LINES THERE DON'T SUPPORT 454 GARBAGE FREE TRANSMISSION OF DATA SO IF YOU HAVE A MODEM AND WANT TO USE IT 455 YOU MUST PAY FOR AN UPGRADED LINE. THE PHONE SYSTEM THERE BEING RATHER DATED 456 NOT LIKE OUR RATHER NEW SYSTEM HERE IN THE N W. OF COURSE IF THIS CATCHES ON 457 AND THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, WATCH OUT! 458 459 ##################C.Y.M.################################10/15 11:29AM####### 460 about the modems..the phone company will never know that I have a modem 461 and I dont think there is anyway they can find out since I plug into the 462 hanset outlet. If I was using a audio or non direct connect modem, I think 463 there is a definite legal recourse sinceyou would not really be hooked into 464 the phone lines, but instead it would 465 be like talkng into the phone normally 466 except you are using a computer. The phone co. cannot stop you from using yo 467 your own equipment,(court decision) so it seems to me there is a legal 468 precedent here. The only problem is how data transmission is legally defined 469 ###############dss################### 470 DSS, you're misinformed if you think that plugging your modem into the hand 471 set plug the phone company won't know you 472 have a modem. The most obvious and direct way they'd know would be to scan calls for continuous noise (carrier tone) and 473 home in on these lines for further analysis. I agree that we shouldn't pay more for a 'data-grade' line, especially since 474 we didn't ask for it: Modems were DESIGNED to be able to use voice-grade lines and transmit correctly, and we paid good 475 money for this capability. Secondly, it is unlikely that the phone company even has the option of selecting between voice- 476 and data-grade lines for any given call or caller, so the extra money is a farce. 477 One way TPC (The Phone Company) may get around this is to eliminate the option of unlimited local calling and go to a 478 metered rate for all customers. This way, modem users would automatically pay more, simply because they tend to use the 479 phone for a longer period of time. Let's hope this doesn't happen. 480 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::::::::: 481 P.S.: What's the definition of a Born-Again-Conservative? 482 Answer: Anyone whose arguments confuse a liberal. 483 :::::::::::::: 484 Im not sure the phone co. can listen in on your phone conversation to check if there is a cont. tone unless they 485 have a court order. And like I said if you are using a non DC modem, as long as you are not hooked up to the lines, 486 the information you transmit over the lines, be it data or voice is your own 487 business, protected blaw. 488 #################dss################### 489 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 490 491 Hello, all......Back I am,......equipment seems OK, I guess BWMS 492 is the best place to check a terminal....something like "worst-case" 493 testing.....I must apologise for dissappearing on everybody, I have 494 had a rather harrowing rs-232 interfacing adventure with my system 495 for the past few weeks........seems functional, though.... 496 497 Many new people out here. New (?) ideas too. Certainly a new topic; 498 but why something as MUNDANE as GOVERNMENT? Let's get esoteric. I 499 suggest "Utopia: acheivable or Erehwon". All you behavorists speak 500 up. Anyone for Twin Oaks? Baby boxes? (air-cradles for the less 501 familiar (take note MIKEY, not familur......i know, i know....i have 502 a minimum of 20 spelling/gramatical errors in this text; but your 503 "familur" always drives me nuts......) with B.F. Skinner.... 504 505 A special hello to PAM; to whom I abandoned mid-thought....What's up? 506 507 And BAD; do I have some BSP's for you! 508 509 Dave: where is d??? 510 511 Aaron 512 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 513 514 No, I dont think utopia is achievable due to the underlying anarchy of human 515 nature. How do you define Utopia? 516 #################dss################### 517 518 Yes, we can and do listen in to conversations. The law prevents us from 519 using the information heard, but don't bet on listening being unlawful. 520 It isn't. We can listen to verify line quality, or to determine the type 521 of usage. different states laws vary. The SW Bell surcharge pertains to 522 what are called 'information providers', and was originally intended to 523 apply to data base and time share computers; it is about 5 years old, 524 they just started aplying it to everybody. It does not concern how 525 you get the data online and affect all data, whether direct, via the 526 other side of the phone, or acoustic, or whatever. 527 Full, required metered service was requested by P NW Bell, but was 528 denied by the PUC. You may soon expect to see a limited usage allowed, 529 both outgoing and incoming, with a surcharge for more use, or 'meter' 530 style rates for more usage. Also, now with divestiture, expect the 531 cost of flat rate to rise a lot, and when most low usage people are on 532 metered service, the high users will have a much higher rate for flat 533 rate. PNB officially denies plans for a special data rate, but is 534 probably waiting for the courts to decide on the SW Bell case. 535 536 As to the merits of liberal vs conservative: extremists are all 537 dangerous, both are extremists... I have never met a politically active 538 person who I would trust, with anything. 539 Luck is. If we can't predict it, it is pure luck. It may have a cause, 540 but unless you know or can control the cause, it is pure luck. You may be 541 able to define it differently, but it still is the same thing. It is 542 called 'unimportant' by those who have been favored by it, and the rest of 543 us know better. Without luck the poor black in South Africa has the same 544 chance at success as you do, and he doesn't because he wasn't lucky enough 545 to be born a white male in the USA. We all like to believe we ourselves are 546 in control of our destiny, it make us feel godd, strong, important, etc,.. 547 We don't. Whe I go out rock climbing I prefer to climb with someone who 548 is a little scared, he is careful. The climber who has never fallen and 549 believes he is too good will sonner or later kill someone, and I don't 550 plan to be that someone. I won't climb with him. Same is true of any 551 venture. Good looks, etc will help overcome bad luck, but still. 552 (By the way, how did you choose your parents who gave you your good genes?) 553 ////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 554 ::::::: 555 Typical Argument: Productive person: "I got where I am through hard work" (True) 556 Non-productive person: "But you were helped by others" (Also True, but wait!) 557 558 While it may be true that people depend to some extent on the efforts of others to get where they are, unless you 559 are prepared to quantify your arguments you'll get nowhere. Even though a Productive Person may have depended on others 560 to some degree, that degree may be so small as to be ignorable and pointless. If we consider the average productivity 561 of everyone in the world, we will find that about half (not necessarily exactly half) have a productivity greater than 562 the average, while the other half have a productivity less than average. But almost no-one is totally independant on 563 anyone else; This is not the point, though, I'm glad to say. 564 Here's the decisive counter-argument: In a canoe with two rowers, it doesn't matter who rows harder and who is 565 lazy. Both canoers get to the destination at essentially the same time. But that doesn't mean that each did the same 566 work during the journey, certainly. And while the lazy canoer may say that part of the hard-working canoer's success 567 (getting to the destination) was due to him, in fact more of the lazy canoer's success was due to the hard-worker. 568 Similarly, just because we depend on others in this world doesn't mean that we can claim no credit for our own hard 569 work. There are lots of 'lazy canoers' in this world, and they are quite fond of pointing out that they are in some 570 way necessary. 571 And while 'luck' (chance) may have some influence in our lives, it is often used as an excuse by the lazies. 572 I have never heard anyone claim that luck was TOTALLY responsible for our lives, so I'd like to hear the estimate of 573 it's effects by those who believe it to be significant. 50%? 75% 90%? Just how much of our success can be attributed 574 to that luck? And if it is so great, why would anyone WORK HARD when they KNOW their success (or lack of it) is 575 preordained by chance, and they can do little about it? 576 But that's just it! That's why the lazies tend to believe in luck! And that's why those that believe in luck tend to 577 be lazy! If you think your hard work accomplishes nothing, you won't do it, will you? Your success will come to you no 578 matter what, so why work? And you will believe that anyone who is successful got that way due to pure chance, not 579 hard work. And, therefore, you should be able to take 50% of that guy's luck in taxes and spread it among the 580 unlucky, right? The guy didn't deserve it anyway, did he? Nah! The guy didn't work hard (only a fool would believe 581 that working hard causes success) and even if he did, that was completely independant of his success, right? 582 583 I got where I am through my own hard work, and I resent anyone implying that my success is mostly/totally due 584 to chance. Or mostly/totally due to the work of others. Everyone is, to some degree, depedant on others, but to 585 distort this fact to justify theft is just that, a thief. 586 587 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::::::: 588 TO: ANON 589 WELL SAID SIR. 590 591 592 593 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 594 WELL NOW! 595 597 598 PAM, COME BACK! THESE PEOPLE ALL LOVE YOU! (I FEEL THE SAME WAY) 599 600 ANON, IF THE GENERAL TONE ON HERE LATELY WASN'T SO ACRIMONIOUS, I'D 601 DRIVE YOU INTO IGNOMINIOUS DEFEAT, YOU WITH YOUR PUTZY IDEAS. STILL, 602 I HAVE TO TRY TO CONTRIBUTE TO AN AURA OF PEACE HERE TO DRAW THE 603 MORE CREATIVE AND NICER PEOPLE BACK HERE WHO HAVE FLED THIS HURLY-BURLY 604 OF USED (AND MIS-USED) IDEAS. 605 606 TO ALL: I'M AFRAID FANNING THE FLAMES ANY MORE IN THIS LOWEST-COMMON- 607 DENOMINATOR DEBATE. SEEMS LIKE THE DUMBER THE SUBJECT THE MORE PARTICIPANTS 608 WE GET. LETS GET ONTO SOMETHING MORE WORTHWHILE THAN NEWS HEADLINES AND 609 POLITICAL RHETORIC. NO DOUBT THIS WILL BE LESS POPULAR, BUT I HAVE SEEN 610 THE LIGHT. I USED TO OPPOSE RULES OF ANY KIND HERE, BUT THE DEBATE HAS 611 JUST GOTTEN TOO LOW LEVEL. WE NEED TO TAKE STEPS TO DRIVE OUT THE YAHOOS. 612 SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW TO RAISE THE LEVEL HERE, ANYBODY?? PLEASE?! 613 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE DESPERATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 614 615 REMEMBER THE TERMINAL PROGRAM WHICH WAS PROMISED SEVERAL MONTHS AGO? 616 WELL... WE HAVE FINISHED THE TERMINAL AND MOST OF ITS FUNCTI_NS. 617 618 THE FOLLOWING FEATURES ARE COMPLETED: 619 STANDARD ASCII TERMINAL. 620 2. EXPANDABLE MEMORY BUFFER WITH CONSTANT AVAILABLE SPACE READOUT. 621 3. BAR METER TO INDICATE PER CENT OF MEMORY LEFT. 622 4. FULL DUPLEXING AND SCROLLING MEMORY WINDOW FOR VIRTUAL MEMORY SIMULATIN 623 5. REPEAT AND CONTROL MODES FOR EASY ONE KEY ENTRY. 624 6. RECEIVE AND TRANSMIT INDICATORS WITH RECEIVE FVEQUENCY LAMP. 625 7. REVIEW OF BUFFER ON SCREEN WITH HALT AND SPEED-UP KEYS. 626 8. OUTPUT OF BUFFER TO PRINTER WITH UPPER LOWER CASE. 627 9. OUTPUT OF BUFFER TO MODEM WITH PAUSE CHACTER (ASCII DOWNLOAD). 628 629 FEATURES SOON TO BE AVAILABLE: