LIST FILE ON MARGIN IS 76 STATUS: ALL ALLOWED NUMBER OF LINES: 623 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ********************** REMOVED: 23 JUL 83 ************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 25 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 26 made it to the top again........ 27 Aaron at 20:22 28 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 29 An interesting point was made on the last disk. Why are we continually forced t 30 o tolerate the 40-column drivel of those Apple-types and Atari-types? It's 31 bad enough that there is a limited number of lines that can be stored; The 32 use of 40 columns wastes half of the storage available! And don't tell me that 33 you can't send 80 columns: any modem program should be able to wrap around 34 properly. If yours can't, either buy another computer or get another modem 35 program. Or else learn to say in 40 columns what the rest of us can say in 36 80. 37 38 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 39 WELL, FOR YOUR INFORMATION, SOME OF US 40 WHO ONLY HAVE A 40 COLUMN DISPLAY, 41 EITHER BECAUSE WE ARE TO CHEAP TO BUY 42 OR CAN'T AFFORD AN 80 COLUMN DISPLAY 43 WOULD LIKE OUR MESSAGES TO BE EASILY 44 READ BY OTHER 40 COLUMN GO'ERS. ALSO 45 IT MAKES IT MUCH EASIER TO EDIT A 46 FAULTY MESSAGE IF YOU ONLY HAVE A 40 47 COLUMN DISPLAY. 48 I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN, TALKING 49 IN 80 COLUMN TERMS, BUT NOT EVERYONE 50 HAS THAT LUXURY. PERSONALLY, I THINK 51 80 COLUMNS ARE GREAT, BUT SINCE I ONLY 52 HAVE 40 TO WORK WITH, I WOULD LIKE TO 53 MAKE THE MOST OF IT. (EASIEST TO READ) 54 ===ERIK=== 55 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 56 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< 57 this mess is only 4 lines long,see how you like 128 on 80,and you will get an idea of what 80 is like on 40..... 58 Aaron at 22:15 59 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< 60 TO ABOVE: 61 YOU FORGOT THE VICS AND SINCLAIRS! 62 IF YOUR GONNA GRIP AT LEAST BE 63 FAIR AND CATCH THEM ALL! 64 ................................... 65 =============================================================================================================================== 66 That looks real nice on my VT-100,Aaron,I say that any messages obviously using less than 128 col should be purged.Any static? 67 a real terminal user 68 =============================================================================================================================== 69 -------------------------------------- 70 Graphic arts, as exemplified in poster 71 and magazine illustration, were import- 72 ant elements of German propaganda machi 73 nes in the mid-twentieth. Public 74 opinion, molded by these machines, was 75 a principle force in the eventual 76 murder of several million (an early 77 representation of Megadeaths) members 78 of an ethnic minority. 79 ++++ Dragonblinder ++++ 80 Those aren't white canes, they're 81 riding whips.....and it's an ugly crop 82 of dragons this year. 83 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 84 85 86 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 87 im not sure i get your point, 88 are you saying: We cant limit 89 scientic liberties because artisitic 90 ones are just as devastating,and 91 limiting such of the arts would 92 93 be censuring our freedom,therfore it 94 must'n be done,therfore editing the 95 scientific community shouldn't be 96 allowed.... 97 OR 98 if you are going to limit the 99 use of science on the grounds of 100 "affecting the environment" you 101 should do the same with the literature 102 and other esthetic media because it can be just as devastating... 103 104 just trying to clarify 105 Aaron at 01:30 106 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 107 riding whips? 108 Aaron at 01:38 109 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 110 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 111 112 What I'm suggesting is that if a criterian for judgement of some cause-effec 113 chain is not mappable onto other equivalent chains then we should consider te 114 applicability of the criterion for judgement. 115 116 >> Dragonblinder << 117 118 A dragon admiring a sunset may still toast your tush... 119 Anon 120 + 121 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 122 123 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 124 I would suggest that the inability 125 to apply equivilent criterion for 126 judgement is simply a function of 127 the dissimilarity between the two 128 cause/e(a?)ffect chains.Mappability 129 dosn't map well from topology 130 to socio-determinism... 131 Aaron at 03:37 132 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 133 134 few blind dragons are known to 135 admire sunsets,yet do they 136 still engage in recreational 137 tush-toasting? 138 139 .....nonA 140 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 141 TO: All Re: 40/64/80/128 column displays 142 I normally access this system with a TRS-80 Mod 3 (64 col), I have accessed 143 it with my Model 100 (40 col). When I used the M100 I left 80 column msgs! 144 It isn't all that difficult to edit a msg where each line of the 145 msg occupies 2 lines of display. Just pretend you are editing a long program line! Actually I consider us to be lucky! We 146 haven't had any HX-20 users leaving 20 column msgs here. 147 Mind you, I'm not saying that you HAVE to use 80 (or 128) columns, but you might give it a try folks. These disks DO fill up 148 rather quickly you know! 149 Something more annoying than narrow msgs is someone who has a 40 col screen & doesn't realize that just becuase he is on the 150 next line doesn't mean he is on the next line HERE. I hate msgs that aren't consistent in width. If you ARE going to continue t 151 use your narrow display, PLEASE set the margin before going into mode. (yes, I know my margins are all over the place i 152 this msg. Guess why?) 153 ____________________________Leonard____________________________________________________________________________________________ 154 I'M USING A VIC WITH TERM-40 (0 COLUMN)AND HAVE NO TROUBLE ENTERING FULL LINES.I JUST TYPE TILL MIKES EQUIPMENT WON'T ACCEPT AN 155 MORE INPUT THEN HIT RETURN. FILLS THE SCREEN REAL NICE. IT ALSO WORKS WITHE THE STANDARD VIC-TERM (22 COL) WHICH HAS A FORMAT 156 FUNCTION SO THAT ONE DOESN'T GIVE BROKEN WORDS AT THE SCREEN EDGE. CAN'T UNDERSTAND ALL THIS FLACK ABOUT LINE SIZE. JUST TAKES 157 A LITTLE EDUCATION, OR IF ALL ELSE FAILS READ YOUR MANUALS AND THE SYSTEM INSTRUCTIONS!! 158 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 159 that stupid???? 160 Are you guys ready for a new Bulletin Board system? If someone can lend me an Auto-Answer Modem, I'll have the system up in no 161 time. 162 163 Aaron, When you sed "YELLOW KITTY", I wasn't sure. Ambush was the one I was talking about to you. 164 165 |||||| 166 || TRON|| 167 ||||| 169 170 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 171 TO LET EVERYONE KNOW, I REALLY DON'T 172 MIND USING OR READING 80 COLUMNS ON A 173 40 COLUMN DISPLAY, BUT WHAT GETS ME IS 174 WHEN SOMEONE COMES OUT AND TELLS ME NOT 175 TO TYPE IN 40 COLUMNS JUST BECAUSE THEY 176 DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT LOOKS ON THEIR 177 MONITOR. 178 YOUR NOT THE ONLY ONES IN THIS WORLD 179 YOU KNOW. (I'LL BET THEIR ARE MORE 40 180 COLUMN USERS THAN THEIR ARE 80 OR 128!) 181 ===ERIK=== 182 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 183 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 184 ditto... 185 Aaron at 14:31 186 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 187 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 188 Hope you don't mind me asking..but how old are you guys? 189 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 190 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 191 Actually the problem is not the individual terminals, it is Backwater's disk space - each line (even if it only 192 contains a carriage return) occupies a whole sector on his disk drive -- kind of a waste: 1 sector for a C/R!! 193 To the guy above who doesn't know anything about Atari's: the Atari may have a forty col. display but it wraps around a 194 automatically - I don't care if the lines are 40 col or 4000 col - it shows up the same on my screen!! 195 ------------Atari User------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 196 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 197 Mappability is not a concept limited to topology. It's meaning derives from abstract algebra; but its useabilty 198 in other forms of argumentation need not be denied simply because of the class in which it was born. 199 Let us not confuse our maps with our territories. 200 201 Dragonblinder 202 203 I'll never see forty again... 204 205 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 206 ********** 207 GRAFITTI SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR BATHROOM WALLS. 208 ******************************************************************************** 209 210 What a funny bird a frog are. 211 When him walks, him hops. 212 When him don't hop, 213 Him sits on his tail, 214 What him don't got at all, almost, hardly. 215 216 217 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 218 ********** 219 GRAFITTI SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR BATHROOM WALLS. 220 ******************************************************************************** 221 222 What a funny bird a frog are. 223 When him walks, him hops. 224 When him don't hop, 225 Him sits on his tail, 226 What him don't got at all, almost, hardly. 227 228 ///////////////////////??????????????????????/////////////// 229 It seems the problem with 40 or 80 or 128 columns is not the equipment, but 230 the users. 231 Please note that BWMS provides the ability to set any column width desired, 232 up to 128, or down to maybe 2. As the last few messages proves, it is 233 actually a bonus that these discs fill up and are replaced, the blather 234 about width goes away faster. In case you haven't discovered it yet, or 235 perhaps can't comprehend, the use of BWMS is not for the convenience of 236 the machine, but for the users, people who may have 22, 40,64, or even 128 237 char wide screens. If you don't like it, go stuff it and cry on some one 238 elses shoulder. (Or go play on the freeway with the other children your 239 own mental age<< sorry, I can't count that low>>). 240 /////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 241 sorry, 242 it only 243 goes 244 down to 245 seven!! 246 ....... 247 ....... 248 ....... 249 ..7.... 250 **************************** 251 Comment on this: It is clear that storing messages in a sector-per-line format 252 is very inefficient, especially for the narrow-width formats. I believe that 253 this is the result of sloppy design, where a designer takes the path of least 254 resistance and makes something that just barely works. Sure, it does what it is 255 designed to do, but does it in a far-from-optimum manner. 256 This is a sign of a very new technology, but there are many other 257 examples of such terrible design: The current state of affairs with regards 258 to the minifloppy formats (dozens of standards) , RS232, software in general, 259 and Basic in particular, etc. Eventually the man on the street will develop 260 a sense for poor design and it will become impossible to 'sell' him on a 261 flawed idea. Until then, watch out! 262 I agree: it seems that the 40-column users' lack of familiarity with 263 their computers is responsible for the problem. They COULD edit 80 columns 264 if they tried, and perhaps some of them do. It's the rest that cause the 265 trouble. 266 ****************************** 267 268 270 271 272 I HAVE A VIC AND I AM ALSO RUNNING TERMINAL-40...(A MODIFIED VERSION THAT 273 ALLOWS SAVING AND RETRIEVING TEXT FILES, AND IS ALSO WHITE CHARS ON BLACK WITH 274 STANDARD SCROLLING) 275 276 I FIND LITTLE PROBLEM READING MESSAGES ON BWMS IN FORTY COLUMNS. HOWEVER, 277 22 COLUMNS IN THE BASIC TERMINAL PROGRAM I WROTE IS A BIT DIFFICULT. 278 279 280 TO THE PERSON ABOVE (TRON): HAVING THE COMPUTER AUTOMATICALLY ANSWER 281 THE PHONE IS VERY EASY... 282 MA BELL PUTS ABOUT 24VAC ON THE LINE WHEN THE PHONE RINGS. ALL VOLTAGES ON 283 THE LINE ARE NORMALLY DC (HUNG UP THE VOLTAGE IS 50 VDC, AND OFF THE HOOK 284 THE VOLTAGE IS ABOUT 6 VDC). SO, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT A DIODE ON THE LINE 285 (CHANGING THE 24VAC TO +12VDC) AND HOOK THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DIODE AND THE 286 OTHER LINE TO A +12VDC RELAY... 287 IF YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF PORT AVAILABLE, THE PORT COULD READ THE POSITION 288 OF THE RELAY SWITCH (WHICH IN A PROGRAM COULD CONTROL A RELAY TO ANSWER THE 289 PHONE.) 290 291 IT'S EASIER THAN IT SOUNDS, AND IS EVEN EASIER IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE A 292 VIC OR CBM-64 (BECAUSE OF THE USER PORT, wHICH IS EXTREMELY EASY TO USE) 293 294 IT ALL CAN BE DONE WITH JUST A HANDFULL OF PARTS...GOOD LUCK! 295 296 AND LAST, TO THE GUY WHO WANTS TO KNOW EVERYONES AGE, I AM 15...AND THE 297 PRESIDENT OF MY OWN COMPANY, PROTRON DATA SYSTEMS........ 298 299 300 THE SYSM, DAVID GREENMAN. 301 302 P.S. MIKE! I JUST TURNED MY ACOUSTICLY COUPLED MODEM INTO A DIRECT-CONNECT. 303 YOU WERE RIGHT! IT DOES WORK ALMOST ERROR FREE...ONLY TWO CHARS WERE MESSED 304 UP DURING THIS WHOLE SESSION... 305 306 ******************************************************************************** 307 BY THE WAY TRON, LEAVE A MESSAGE ON PMS FOR ME (DAVID GREENMAN) SO I CAN 308 GET USE TO THE SYSTEM (I.E. RETRIEVING MESSAGES, CHECKING FOR ONE WAITING 309 ETC...) 310 311 I MIGHT LEAVE MY PHONE NUMBER ON IT AT A LATTER TIME FOR YOU... 312 313 THE SYSM. 314 315 *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ 316 ---------------------------------------- 317 JUST TESTING; THE GUY ABOVE WAS RIGHT IT 318 HELPS TO READ THE INSTRUCTIONS 319 you might consider checking with ma 320 before you go hooking up any devices 321 such as Mr.Greenman suggested,ma dosn't 322 take kindly to devices with ringer 323 equivalences of 16 on their lines..... 324 note that i am not on my plush 325 homegrown c64 modem operating 326 system v6.7,thus the lack of the 327 classical "<><><>" and "Aaron at.." 328 Aaron 329 ............................................... 330 DESIGN TO SPEC IS NOT A DESIGN FLAW. OVERDESIGN IS. 331 IT COSTS MORE, TAKES LONGER, AND OFTEN DOESN'T WORK AS WELL. 332 THE REASON THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT 5" FLOPPY DESIGNS 333 AROUND IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO REAL DIFFERENCE INPERFORMANCE, 334 AND THEREFORE NO REASON FOR ANY ONE DESIGN. AS HERRE IS NO 335 SINGLE STANDARD TO FOLLW, THERE ISN'T ANY REASON TO USE 336 ONE OVER ANOTHER. ALSO, WHEN WAS EACH ONE DESIGNED? 337 IF YOU CAN DO BETTER, DO IT, BUT DON'T CALL A WORKING 338 SYSTEM BAD, UNLESS YOU NEED SOMETHING ELSE, AND THEN IT ISN'T 339 POOR DESIGN, JUST INAPPROPRIATE. SURE IT COULD BE MORE 340 "EFFICIENT", BUT COULD YOU AFFORD IT? COMPARE WHAT BETTER 341 COSTS WITH WHAT BWMS REALLY COSTS, AND SEE IF "BETTER" 342 IS BETTER. 343 .............................BAD.......................... 344 ---------- 345 I HAVE ALREADY MESSED WITH THE PHONE LINE AND THE RINGER VOLTAG 346 IT 70 VOLTS. MY MODEM IS A CHEAPO ONE THAT ONLY XMITS AND RECIE 347 VES. I HAVE SEVERAL CIRCUTS THAT HAVE O DO WITH AUTO-ANSWER 348 DEVICES. I'M JUST SCARED ABOUT MA BELL COMING DOWN ON ME WITH 349 A JACKHAMMER. 350 351 ------ 352 == TRON == 353 ------ 354 ---------- 355 MIKE, WHO DELETED MY MESSAGE THAT WAS RIGHT HERE????? I DON'T APPRECIAT IT AT 356 ALL. DID YOU OR DID SOME EGOTISTICAL SYSTEM CRASHING MORON DO IT? 357 358 THE SYSM...A VERY UNHAPPY AND DISAPPOINTED USER. 359 360 -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* 361 **************************************************************************** 362 SOMEBODY'S MESSING UP MY TRANSMISSION! 363 HEY, YOU GUYS! ANYBODY HAVE AN APPLE 2+ AND A DISK DRIVE THAT I CAN BUY 364 OR RENT PLEASE LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT! 365 MY ADDRESS IS...............JIM KELLY 366 367 >PORLAND, ORE. 97214 368 PHONE: (503) 231-xxxx 369 THANKS! 370 371 372 373 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 374 HEY, I HAVE NO TROUBLE USING 80 COLUMNS ON MY 40 COLUMN SCREEN. BUT TO THE 375 PEOPLE ABOVE WHO SEEM TO BE TAKING THE MATTER SO SERIOUSLY, CALM DOWM, IF YOU 376 WANT 80 COLUMNS... JUST ASK!!!!!! 377 378 BY THE WAY, IS MIKE STRADLEY STILL OUT THERE SOMEWHERE. IF YOU ARE MIKE, 379 THIS IS ERIK, LEAVE ME A MESSAGE AS TO WHAT IS GOING ON. HAVEN'T SEEN YOU AT 380 WORK FOR OVER A WEEK! I HEARD ABOUT THE ADDITION TO YOUR FAMILY. I'M ANXIOUS 381 TO FIND OUT WHAT Y_OU NAMED HIM/HER. 382 TALK TO YOU LATER AT(WHENEVER THAT MAY BE!). 383 384 BRUCE? ARE YOU THERE? THIS IS ERIK. THAVE ANY LUCK WITH THE PROGRAM SINCE 385 THE LAST TIME I TALKED TO YOU? (BY THE WAY, I WILL RBRING A NEW COPY OF THE 386 SOURCE LISTING TO YOU NEXT TIME I COME 387 OUT. BYE..... 388 389 ===ERIK=== 390 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- 391 Tron, what kind of circuits have you got for answering the 392 phone? I added an autodialer to my modem, and wouldn't mind 393 an autoanswerer. I've called you a few times, but I don't even 394 get the answering machine. I'll try again, I guess... 395 Andy 396 . 397 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 398 To give you an idea as to the cost of BWMS (Real cost, not my often 399 touted no cost to me standard) When the system was new, it had a 400 list of $999.95 This was in 1977. (The original designed unit was in 1976) 401 In very high volume it got to as low as $400.00 around 1979/1980. 402 It is very difficult to find a disk system around for that price 403 even today. The reason for this is that BWMS is a dedicated system 404 that is it can't run basic or anything else, it can only run BWMS. 405 For this you get cost savings as noted above. Part of this comes 406 from not running expensive operating systems since there is no need 407 to as we decided that it will only run one program always, we just 408 put it in prom and not worry about it. The next thing we consider 409 is that since we don't have all that much program space (8K prom 410 and 1K ram for EVERYTHING!) a lot of things have to be changed in 411 the way normal thought is nowadays as to what is normal for a disk. 412 thus the sector per line concept which makes programing in that 413 small an area possible. By the way, things do change with time, 414 even the computer that BWMS is running on has evolved at the 415 manufacturer, although BWMS is still the granddady, the lastest 416 system being sold runs CPM has a Z80 processor (BWMS uses a 8080) 417 has 256K of ram, 16K of prom, and sells for a list price of... 418 would you believe the original price of $999.95?..... 419 So you see, what changes with time is the performance per price, 420 not the cost. By the way, I built a computer a long time ago 421 (around 1967 or 1968 I think for about $1.00 it worked quit well 422 thank you. and was made from paper clips and things like that 423 the memory was a toilet paper roll with aluminum foil for contacting 424 A computer can be built any way you want, it is just a matter 425 of determining what you want. AND THAT IS THE THING THAT CHANGES! 426 *** CISTOP MIKEY WITH THE LESSON FOR THE DAY *** 19 JULY 83 ****** 427 ::::::::::::::::::::: 428 To connect to the phone line is relatively easy, even if you want to do 429 it 'right.' Here's my way: First, have no DC connection between the 430 phone line. To carry the signal, use a 600:600 ohm transformer. To 431 bring the line off-hook, use a reed-relay. To detect the ring, use 432 an opto-isolator that is driven by the full-wave rectification of the 433 capacitively coupled signal on the line. This way, no DC or AC problems, 434 and the ringer equivalence is essentially 0 (almost no load on line.) 435 :::::::::::::::::::::Jim, Son of Ma Bell::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 436 HOOKING THE COMPUTER UP TO THE PHONE IN THE WAY I DESCRIBED EARLIER DOES 437 NOT PUT THAT MUCH OF A LOAD ON THE LINE. IT PUTS ABOUT THE EQUIVILENCE OF 438 ABOUT 1 1/2 PHONES. I HAVE A RELAY (HOOKED UP AS DESCRIBED EARLIER) 439 HOOKED UP TO THE LINE. AND, WHILE I WAS AT IT, DISCONNECTED THE BELL AND 440 INSTALLED A PIEZO BUZZER FOR THE RINGER...SOUNDS A LOT BETTER THAN THE CLANG 441 OF THE BELL!!! I ALSO CONVERTED MY ACOUSTIC MODEM TO DIRECT CONNECT BY USING 442 TWO $1.29 AUDIO OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS. I HAVE HAD EXCELENT SUCCESS WITH THIS 443 AND I SUGGEST EVERYONE DO IT. THE TRANSFORMERS HOOK INTO THE MIC AND SPEAKER 444 OF THE PHONE HANDSET...SIMILAR TO THE WAY COMMODORE DOES IT WITH THERE DIRECT- 445 CONNECT. ONCE AGAIN, IT ALL WORKS GREAT! I HAVE HAD ONLY ONE PROBLEM...WHEN 446 I CONNECTED MY MODEM TO THE TRANFORMER AND CONNECTED THE TRANSFORMER TO THE 447 PHONE, I DIDN'T USE SHIELDED CABLE. NEEDLESS TO SAY, YOU COULD HEAR KwJJ ON 448 THE TELEPHONE! I FIXED THIS PROBLEM 449 THOUGH, AND HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS SINCE. I ALSO BUILT AN ELECTRONIC HOLD BUTTON 450 FOR THE TELEPHONE, AND INSTALLED IT TOO... THE CIRCUIT CAN BE FOUND IN A 451 BACK ISSUE OF RADIO-ELECTRONICS (CALLED "MUSIC ON HOLD"). AS THE ARTICAL NAME 452 IMPLIES, WHILE ON HOLD YOU CAN ALSO PLAY MUSIC INTO THE PHONE FOR THE PERSON 453 ON THE OTHER END. 454 455 AND THE LAST OF MY TELEPHONE PROJECTS WAS AN AUTODIALER. THIS CONSISTS OF A  456 RELAY, RESISTOR, AND TRANSISTOR...AND A NICE BIG PROGRAM! I USE THIS TO ANSWER 457 THE PHONE ALSO... 458 459 THE SYSM...A TELEPHONE FREAK. 460 461 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- 462 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 463 right on jim,another excellent 464 technique is a neon lamp,1mohm resistor 465 and a photo-transistor,(you can probably 466 guess how they are hooked up),and 467 a com-controlled relay to answer 468 when comp sees the p-t signal.If you want 469 to get tricky,replace the photo-t with 470 a LASCR a put a com-controled nc relay 471 in the line between the power supply 472 and the relay/scr,and the unit will 473 answer auto,the computer will send 474 a disconnect signal to drop.... 475 Aaron at 21:01 476 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> 477 IF YOU GUYS LIKE TO SEE MY METHODE IN OPERATION...I PLAN TO HOOK IT UP TO 478 THE PHONE LINE...FOR YOU ALL TO TRY OUT, WHEN I AM READY I WILL POST MY PHONE 479 NUMBER ON A BBS. 480 481 IT DOES WORK...WITHOUT FOOLING AROUND WITH OPTOCOUPLING DEVICES. 482 483 THE SYSM, TRYING TO KEEP THINGS SIMPLE (AND CHEAP!). 484 485 *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ 486 BEWARE the method proposed by the SYSM!! It might work, sometimes, but... 487 The ring current put out by Ma is 105 volts AC, 20 hertz, with a biasing 488 DC voltage that depends on, among other things what office you home into, 489 which "party" it thinks you are, and how far you are from the office. It 490 will get to you at a lower voltage, which depends on what you have hung on 491 the line, and how far away you are. A simple capacitor to isolate the DC, 492 with some simple detector for about 50 volts will usually work if you don't 493 try to draw too much current (stay below about 10 milliamps to be safe). 494 The phone contains about 1 or 2 microfarads in series with the bell, but 495 use something closer to .1 for your detector. Directly connecting to the 496 phone line, besides being illegal (you can't afford the certification), is 497 rather dangerous unless done right. If it goes astray you WILL pay the 498 cost to Ma of finding out that it was your problem (estimated at $50 plus). 499 There are also other things on the line than the 52 volts DC that run the 500 talk circuit and the 105 VAC that rings your bell, like plus or minus 120 501 volts DC used for line testing. Note that what you see on your line may 502 not be the same as what someone else has; it depends on what kind of office 503 you have, and who owns it, Ma Bell, or GTE, or... Going in through the 504 handset connector is a very good way to direct connect, as what goes to 505 the receiver is isolated from the dc, and is safe. (however, don't bet on 506 it, some phones can be different.) 507 Something to check for, relative to phones: measure the dc voltage 508 with no phone attatched to the line, with the phone off hook (dial tone), 509 and after you call someone in the same exchange, and when someone calls 510 you. You might notice that the talk battery is reversed when the person 511 you called answers, or when you answer an incoming call. Most simple 512 "hold" circuits depend on this reversal so they can tell when the caller 513 hangs up, rather than holding up the line forever; unfortunately the newer 514 systems used by Ma don't do this. I don't know about GTE, etc. 515 If you are on a rural line, or in St. Johns you may find a lot more than 516 52 volts, too. (It depends on what you have on the line as it may look at 517 your set to see how much it needs.) 518 And, make sure your circuit leaves NOTHING connected DC-wise to the line 519 when you are calling out. 520 Good luck, it may even work 521 //////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 522 If you must, I don't recomend you do, as BAD says ma will climb all over you 523 if anything goes wrong! but if you must, the proper circuit to use for ring 524 detection is an optocoupler (a 4N26 will do nicely) a capacitor, and a resistor. 525 take the resistor put it in series with the capactior which is then put in 526 series with the optocouplers photo diode (pins 1 and 2) the resistor should 527 be about 10,000 ohms 1/2 watt this limits the current so the opto coupler 528 won't get blown out because of misc line voltages running around on the lines. 529 the capactitor should be 0.33mfd rated at 250VDC minimum. preferably a 530 polycarbonate type as these will selfheal if the voltage on the line 531 exceeds its rating. finally, a diode (1N914) should be installed across 532 the 4N26's photo diode pins to protect it against reverse voltages. 533 This diode should be installed so that it is backwards to the photo diode. 534 I.E. anode to cathode, cathode to anode. now tie the emitter of the 535 optocoulpers transistor to you i/o ground the collector goes to and 536 input port, and a 10,000 ohm pull up resistor should be tied from the 537 collector to plus 5 volts to finnish it off. you will see the ring 538 signal as a series of pulses that match the ringing you hear. This 539 circuit just described is an aproved circuit, and has a ringer 540 equivalence of 0.8B If you intend to send data thru the line, I 541 also strongly urge you to use a standard telephone line transformer 542 to do this with. There is a reason for this, the phone line is 543 expecting a 600 ohm load for proper operation, it is very important to 544 match this load with the transformer, or you will have a lot poorer 545 data reception. (lots of garbage) The reason for this is that data 546 is being sent both ways on the same set of wires, in order to 547 seperate this data at each end we need as close a match to the 548 600 ohms as we can get to properly balance the line for every little 549 bit that we are out of balance, that much of our transmitted data 550 will get thru and try to garbage our received data. to connect the 551 transformer to the line use a relay with normally open contacts, 552 that way if you loose power the relay will turn off and not hog the 553 line. the relay goes in series with the transformers primary which 554 is tied to the phone line. the wires you want to use are the red and 555 green ones. which are the center two wires of the modular cable. ignore 556 the yellow and black wires (don't hook anything to them) (these are the 557 outer two wires of the modular cord.). 558 another reason to use a standard telephoe transformer is that there is 559 a DC bias current on the telephone line that is there to make the 560 carbon mic in your handset work. This causes havock in a normal audio 561 transformer because they aren't expecting a lot of DC current to be flowing 562 thru them. the telephone transformers were designed with this in mind 563 however. This current is typically around 20 milliamps, but can be any 564 where from as little as 5 milliamp to as much as 120 milliamp (it can even 565 go momentarily into several amps when a line hit occurs.) In some cases 566 such as a private line there is no line current at all which is why 567 the telephone won't work on it, it was intended for equipment only. 568 **** CISTOP MIKEY ABSOLVING ALL KNOWLEDGE OF THE ABOVE **** 20 JULY 83 **** 569 P.S. Be sure to hook your ring detector ahead of the relay contacts (or 570 possibly across them if you are only using a single set of contacts.) 571 so that you can see the phone line ringing. 572 ************************************************************************** 573 I GREATLY APPRECIATE ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS, HOWEVER MOST OF THE PROBLEMS 574 THAT WERE OUTLINED I HAVE ALLREADY DISCOVERED ON TUESDAY...I HAD SOME WEIRD 575 REMEDIES. THIS BEGINS THE TALE... 576 577 FIRST I WANTED DIRECT CONNECT...SO I THOUGHT THAT I WOULD BUY SOME AUDIO 578 OUTPUT TRANSFORMERS AND SEE HOW THESE WOULD WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH MY 579 MODEM. WELL...I HAD A FEW PROBLEMS. FIRST, AS WAS ALREADY MENTIONED, THE 580 RESISTANCE OF THE TRANSFORMERS WASN'T QUITE RIGHT (TO SAY THE LEAST). I SOLVED 581 THIS PROBLEM BY PUTTING TWO 1N914 SINGNAL DIODES HOOKED BACK TO BACK (ANODE TO 582 CATHODE, CATHODE TO ANODE) IN ONE WIRE OF THE LINE COMING FROM THE MIC OF THE 583 PHONE (I HAD MY MODEM ONLY HALF DIRECT CONNECT TO START MY ADVENTURE) GOING TO 584 THE SPEAKER OF THE MODEM. I HAD THE 8OHM SIDE OF THE TRANSFORMER (THE SECONDARY) 585 CONNECTED TO THE SPEAKER AND THE PRIMARY CONNECTED TO THE MIC OF THE PHONE. 586 BUT I FOUND THAT THE VOLUME LEVEL WAS WAY TOO LOW. SO I TURNED THE TRANSFORMER 587 AROUND AND HOOKED IT UP BACKWORDS... 588 IT WORKED! WELL...IT KIND OF WORKED. THE RESISTANCE WAS TOO LOW ON THE PHONE END 589 AND I HAD PROBLEMS DIALING OUT. SO AFTER ADDING THE DIODES, THIS PROBLEM WAS 590 GONE. THEN I HAD PROBLEMS WITH KWJJ RADIO (BECAUSE I AM CLOSE TO THE TOWER). 591 I SOLVED THIS PROBLEM WITH SOME SHIELDED CABLE (WHICH WAS GROUNDED TO THE MODEM 592 GROUND). AS OF NOW, I HAVEN'T CONNECTED THE MIC OF THE MODEM TO THE SPEAKER OF 593 THE PHONE, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT END. THEN I 594 GOT OUT MY DVM AND STARTED FOOLING WITH THE PHONE. I TRIED JUST ABOUT EVERY 595 IMAGINABLE CONFIGURATION (ON/OFF HOOK, RINGING, WHILE CALLING SOMEONE, ETC...) 596 AND THEN TRIED USING A DIODE ON ONE SIDE OF THE LINE, AND ON THE OTHER END OF 597 THE DIODE, I ATTACHED THE RELAY (12VDC 598 RELAY FROM RADIO SHACK, 12 MA, 1200 OHM COIL). THIS WORKED FINE WHEN THE PHONE 599 RANG. I THOUGHT ABOUT THE LOAD ON THE LINE FROM THE RELAY AND DECIDED ON 600 DISCONNECTING THE BELL AND REPLACING IT WITH A PIEZO BUZZER (RADIO SHACK 601 273-065), WHICH I HOOKED TO THE COIL OF THE RELAY. WHEN EVER THE PHONE RANG, 602 ABOUT 10VDC WENT TO THE RELAY/BUZZER, WHICH IS JUST ABOUT RIGHT. NO VOLTAGE IS 603 ON THE RELAY COIL DURING ANY OTHER OPPERATION (ON/OFF HOOK, DIALING, ETC...), 604 ONLY WHEN THE PHONE IS RINGING. IT ALL WORKS FINE RIGHT NOW (HOW DO YOU THINK 605 THIS MESSAGE GOT HERE?) AND ALL THAT I HAVEN'T DONE IS HOOK THE OTHER SIDE OF 606 THE PHONE UP (WHICH I AM GOING TO DO TONIGHT). SO WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO DO, 607 IT IS A MATTER OF TIME, MONEY (I HAD MOST OF THE PARTS ALREADY), AND WILLINGNESS 608 609 610 HAVE FUN, WHATEVER YOU DECIDE... 611 612 A MESSAGE TO EVERYONE CONCERNED...THE SYSM. 00:51:30 21 JULY 83 *** 613 614 *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+ 615 P.S. I JUST GOT DONE HOOKING MY MODEM UP TO TOTALLY WORK DIRECT-CONNECT, BOTH 616 TX AND RECEIVE. IT WORKS JUST GREAT...I THINK I AM GOING TO ADD A FEW RESISTORS 617 TO THE CIRCUIT TO CUT DOWN ON THE LOAD. THIS WILL PROBABLY TAKE THE STRAIN OFF 618 OF MY MODEM AND I WILL OUTPUT A SLIGHTLY HIGHER VOLUME...ALL THE BETTER...I 619 AM DOING IT TO FEEL MORE SECURE AND TO PLEASE ALL YOU DOUBTING-THOMASES. 620 621 TRYING TO IMPROVE EVERYTHING...THE SYSM 622 623 +*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*