NUMBER OF LINES: 563 1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask.... 2 ************************ REMOVED: 20 JAN 83 **************************** 3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator 4 ************************************************************ 5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON 6 THIS SYSTEM. 7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned 8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public. 10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and 11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the 12 right to remove any and all messages from the system which are offensive 13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be 14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved) 15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on 16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'. 17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out 18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored. 19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake, 20 use the replace command to replace the line. 21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up. 22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 23 ======================================== 24 WOW! THE SYSTOP-MICKEY WAS QUICK IN GETTING A NEW DISK IN! 25 WILL MIRACLES EVER CEASE! I WONDER WHEN HE IS GOING TO 26 DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE TELEPHONE PROBLEMS? 27 BY THE WAY, THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE LOUDNESS OF THE TONES 28 CARRIED OVER THE TELEPHONE LINES. IF YOU MODIFY YOU MODEM 29 TO INCREASE ITS INPUT/OUTPUT THE PROBLEMS WILL CEASE. 30 (IT IS SO FAINT THAT MY MODEM HAS PROBLEMS KEEPING THE CARRIER) 31 I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL ON THE OTHER BBS SYSTEMS. 32 JUST LISTEN TO THE PHONE, YOU CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE. 33 CISTOP- A FEW AdJUSTMENTS WON'T COST YOU A THING, HAVE AT! 34 *****************THE SYSM, DAVID GREENMAN***************** 35 ***************** 01/05/83 9:37 P.M. ***************** 36 37 38 ============================= 39 Ken Wilkenson will have his 40 Timex/Sinclair ZX81 at the 41 PCS meeting, if you would 42 like to evaluate it. It has 43 a 16K expansion with 3 prom 44 slots available, a REGULAR 45 keyboard made especially for 46 the ZX81 and a modem. The 47 Shugart disk drive will be 48 added later. 49 ============================= 50 ********************************************************* 51 NEATO! KEN WILKENSON NOW HAS A BIGGER TOY TO PLAY WITH! 52 54 ______________ 55 The loudness of the carrier does seem to be very low. Should 56 definitely be raised. 57 ______________ 58 59 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 60 Further drivel on processors: 61 The 6502 appears to be a 'dead end' processor. Why? What 62 has come along that is either source- or object-code compatible 63 with it? Close to nothing, probably nothing. With the 8080 64 software, you get compatibility wit 8085, Z80, NSC800, plus one 65 of the National 16-bit processors. Further, in about a year the 66 Z-800 will be available, with a speed approx equal to a 20-mhz 67 Z-80. It shows that this architecture and instruction set is 68 being supported quite well (by the way, the fastest 8085 available 69 is 10 Mhz, fastest Z80 is 8 Mhz). Clearly, in the future systems 70 and software designed around this series will be more compatible 71 than the 6502. Not only the 8-bit machines, but the 8086 is 72 source-compatible with 8080, which is why we already have the 73 amount of 8086 software we do. Compare this with the 68000, 74 which is still spinning its (admittedly fast) wheels. 75 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 76 I AM HERO ONE 77 I AM A ROBOT 78 I HAVE JUST GOT MY NEW ELCTRIC HANDS 79 SO I WANT TO MEET NEw FRIENDS 80 WNNT YOU PLEAE BE MY FRIEND? 81 what is this stuffwe are getting on thi 82 this stuff ir pretty strange 83 I do^t like conversing with a robot 84 It would be a good Idea to ban robots 85 from this system 86 THE SLNTH 87 THE SLOTH 88 ............................................................... 89 I have a friend with both a ZX-80 & a T/S 1000. I'm sure he'd 90 like that game so please put it on O Great SYSOP! 91 Reagarding the ZX-80 & 81, I admit that they're pretty 92 low grade computers, but my friend couldn't AFFORD anything 93 better. (The T/S 1000 was a christmas gift). 94 Price is more important than most ad writers seem to 95 realize. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see an ad 96 calling $2500+ computer "affordable"! According to some census 97 data I saw $16K is the median income in the US. I make a bit more 98 but $2500 is 2 1/2 months take home pay!! (believe it or not 99 I DON'T qualify for loans or credit at most places, so I'm 100 talking CASH) 101 ................................................................ 102 103 THE JAPANESE ARE COMING! 104 THE JAPANESE ARE COMING! 105 >> look out Timex/Sinclair << 106 107 ********************************************************** 108 SYSOP MIKEY== 109 Please do put in your TINY WUMPUS on here. 110 Would you be upset if i converted it to run on 111 another brand of computer - and then published 112 it in a magazine? 113 ******************************************************************* 114 ps. yes, I would be willing to give you credit 115 (money is another matter though) 116 ***************************************************************** 117 118 119 ********************************************************************* 120 BIT BUCKET Bulletin Board Back UP 121 ********************************************************************* 122 123 This is to announce that the BIT BUCKET Bulletin Board system 124 is tentatively back up. The problems that were plaguing it last 125 week when I first brought it up have been resolved (I Hope!) and 126 I think now that it is ready to go again. There have been a few 127 changes, mostly for the better. The phone number is 761-xxxx. 128 Buadrate is 300. Hours are variable...mostly weekdays and late 129 evenings. Give it a call try it out. Please leave a message 130 to System Operator letting me know you made it, and what you 131 think of the system. 132 133 Rick Bensene - System Operator, BIT BUCKET 134 01-06-82 10:21PM 135 ********************************************************************* 136 P.S. ^^^^^ To get in, press RETURN till you get a response after 137 getting the carrier. (Sorry 'bout that...) 138 139 Has any body been able to access Bit-Bucket BB? 140 I've been trying with no success- 141 dan h. 12:46 7-jan-83 142 143 .............................................................. 144 I gave up on Bit Bucket after sending carriage returns for 145 about a minute and a half with NO response from the system 146 L.E. 16:15 1/7/83 147 .............................................................. 148 I WILL CHECK OF THE XMITT LEVEL ON THE SYSTEM, HOWEVER I DON'T HAVE 149 ENORMOUS HOPES AS IT IS RUNNING PERMISIVE, AND AS SUCH I AM AT THE 150 MERCY OF MA BELL AND WHAT EVER LOSS OCCURS BETWEEN HERE AND THE EXCHANGE 151 I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CHECK UNTIL NEXT WEEK THOUGH AS MY EQUIPMENT IS 152 ON LONE. OF COURSE I COULD ALWAYS BOOST IT TO THE LEVEL THAT IS THE 153 MAX ACCEPTABLE BY THE EXCHANGE SINCE I CAN GET THAT INFO BY A ROUND 154 ABOUT METHOD, BUT THAT IS NOT LEGAL WITH A PERMISSIVE ARRANGEMENT. 155 ********** CISTOP MIKEY ******* 7 JAN 83 *************************** 156 157 Just a point to keep in mind, the 10Mhz 8085 really operates at 5Mhz 158 as the clock is divded internally by 2. I am very displeased at the 159 way sales types keep trying to push that crap on the unsuspecting 160 by saying it runs at 10Mhz because it happens to use a 10Mhz xtal! 161 162 .................................................................. 163 P.S. a 6502 can be pushed to 10Mhz real speed by giving it 6 volts 164 power. The problem? finding RAM and other parts that can run that 165 fast. A 6502 running at 10Mhz has the same thruput as a Z80 running 166 at 25Mhz on an average. 167 168 .................................................................... 169 170 MINI-WUMPUS FOR THE ZX80-81 VERSION #1 BY MIKE DAY 171 1 LET Y=1 172 2 PRINT "PLAY?" 173 3 INPUT Y 174 **** SET UP THE BURROW 175 5 RANDOMIZE 176 10 DIM D(6) 177 15 FOR C=1 TO 6 178 20 NEXT C 179 30 LET M=-1 180 35 LET S=0 181 **** ENTRANCE FROM ARROW ROUTINE 182 40 CLS 183 **** ENTRANCE FROM BAD MOVE 184 45 LET N=D(6) 185 50 GO SUB 800 186 **** ENTRANCE FROM GOOD MOVE OR BAT SNATCH 187 **** FIND OUT IF WE HIT ANYTHING 188 55 IF N=D(1) THEN GO TO 700 189 60 IF N=D(2) OR N=D(3) THEN GO TO 600 190 65 IF N=D(4) OR N=D(5) THEN GO TO 500 191 **** DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING, SO FIND OUT WHAT'S NEARBY 192 70 LET D(6)=N 193 75 GO SUB 800 194 80 FOR C=1 TO 5 195 85 IF NOT D(C)=X AND NOT D(C)=Y AND NOT D(C)=Z THEN GO TO 110 196 90 IF C=1 THEN PRINT "WUMPUS NEAR" 197 95 IF C=2 OR C=3 THEN PRINT "PIT NEAR" 198 100 IF C=4 OR C=5 THEN PRINT "BAT NEAR" 199 110 NEXT C 200 ***** NOW TELL 'EM WHERE THEY ARE AT 201 120 PRINT "IN",D(6) 202 130 PRINT "ROOMS",X,Y,Z 203 140 PRINT "TO?", 204 150 INPUT N 205 **** DO THEY WANT TO SHOOT AN ARROW? 206 160 IF N=S THEN GO TO 200 207 **** IS IT A VALID MOVE? 208 170 CLS 209 180 IF N=X OR N=Y OR N=Z THEN GO TO 55 210 **** NOPE! REPRINT EVERYTHING 211 190 PRINT "HUH?" 212 195 GO TO 45 213 **** DART ROUTINE 214 200 PRINT "S" 215 210 PRINT "SHOOT TO?", 216 220 INPUT N 217 230 PRINT N 218 **** DON'T SHOOT? 219 240 IF N=M THEN GO TO 400 220 **** GOT THE WUMPUS? 221 250 IF N=D(1) THEN GO TO 400 222 **** NOPE! SO MOVE THE WUMPUS 223 260 LET N=D(1) 224 270 GO SUB 800 225 280 LET D(1)=RND(20) 226 290 IF D(1)=X OR D(1)=Y OR D(1)=Z THEN GO TO 40 227 300 GO TO 280 228 **** GOT THE WUMPUS! 229 400 PRINT "GOT HIM" 230 410 RUN 231 **** BAT ZAP! 232 500 CLS 233 510 LET N=RND(20) 234 520 PRINT "ZAP" 235 530 GO TO 55 236 **** FELL IN A PIT! 237 600 PRINT "FELL IN PIT" 238 610 RUN 239 **** THE WUMPUS GOT YOU! 240 700 PRINT "WUMPUS GOT YOU" 241 710 RUN 242 **** LOCATOR ROUTINE (CALCULATES NEIGHBORING ROOMS) 243 800 IF N-10>0 THEN GO TO 870 244 810 LET Z=N+10 245 820 LET Y=N+1 246 830 IF N=10 THEN LET Y=1 247 840 LET X=N-1 248 850 IF N=1 THEN LET X=10 249 860 RETURN 250 870 LET Z=N-10 251 880 LET Y=N-2 252 890 IF N-13<0 THEN LET Y=N+8 253 900 IF N-18>0 THEN LET X=N-8 254 910 RETURN 255 **** END OF MINI-WUMPUS 256 ***************************************************** 257 STATEMENTS PRECEEDED BY **** ARE NOT PART OF THE PROGRAM, 258 I ONLY PUT THEM IN TO LET YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. 259 ***** THE MARVALOUS CISTOP MIKEY **** 7 JAN 83 ************** 260 ///////////////////////////////////////////////////// 261 Contrary to the misinformation presented above, a 10 MHz 8085 262 really runs at 10 Mhz, with a 20 Mhz xtal used externally. 263 Most systems designed use a 5 Mhz 8085, with a 10 Mhz xtal. 264 I truly doubt if increasing the vcc to a 6502 would make it 265 run at anywhere near 10 Mhz. Why? Microprocessors typically 266 aren't speeded up more than about 10-20% by this, so if a 267 significant fraction of parts actually could run at 10 Mhz 268 'hot', the manufacturer would be easily able to sell them at 8 269 Mhz or 6 Mhz. As far as I can tell, the fastest common 6502 270 is 3Mhz, while most systems use 2 Mhz. They may have 4 Mhz 271 parts in very small quantities, but that's nowhere near 10 Mhz. 272 273 In any case, it seems than the 6502 and z80 are relatively 274 similar in speed, which is reasonable considering they are 275 built on processes of a similar technology level. 276 Further, in computation-intensive businesses, it is generally 277 true that programmers won't re-program their software 278 unless the target machine is at least twice as fast as the 279 current machine. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it. In 280 home computing, this would be more like a factor of 4. 281 So there is little reason related to speed why anyone would 282 want to convert 6502 software to z80 or vice versa. However, 283 their is a big reason concerning software compatibility: 284 With all of the new Z-80 based computers (Big boards, Zerox 820, 285 Kaypro, Osborne, Micro Decision) and all of the old ones, the 286 CP/M compatibility is critical. It's true that as more 16 bit 287 computers come on line the Z-80 will be less important, but 288 the assembly language compatibility is still there. 289 By the way, check out the Z800. Little info yet, but 290 looks better all the time. 291 --------------------------------------------------- 306 I know this is an odd time of year to be doing this, but is 307 anyone interested in a crotch rocket. I have a suzuki GS1100E, a trely incred- 308 ible machine. I love it but rarely ride. I want to sell it to add some new 309 'puter goodies, and so I'll take either a good daisywheeler or an Epson 100 310 in partial trade. Low blue book is 2500. The bike is an '80, excellent condition 311 (I used to be a motorcycle mechanic). Anyone intterested can leave a message 312 here or call me at xxx-xxxx days or xxx-xxxx eves/wkends. I'm also interested 313 in a boat trailer that can handle a 23' boat as part trade, or rifles, or 314 whatever. 315 316 by the way, to the Cistop, despite all the grumbling above about carrier cond- 317 ition, I have always been able to hold your system, even when I had problems 318 with my line on other systems. Strange world. 319 Bill B 320 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 321 322 TO THE SYSOP REGARDING GETTING ON THE SYSTEM 323 324 I THINK YOUR SYSTEM SUCKS. THIS IS THE WORST TRAVESTY OF COMPUTERS I HAVE 325 EVER ENCOUNTERED. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE WITH AN OUNCE OF INTELLIGENCE 326 WOULD TRY TO MAKE A SYSTEM LIKE THIS RUN. DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING BETTER 327 TO DO? MAYBE MA BELL SHOULD MORE CLOSELY MONITOR WHAT GETS PUT ON HER 328 LINES! I HOPE THIS SYSTEM GOES THE WAY OF SO MANY OTHER CRUDE BBS'S, DOWN 329 THE PROVERBIAL TOILET! HAVE A CRAPPY NEW YEAR! 330 331 //////////..........///////// 332 And now, a word from our sponsors......... 333 /////////..........///////// 334 335 336 I will not argue with you in regard to if there is truly a 10Mhz 8085 337 as there very well could be (athough my INTEL manual says not), but 338 as with the 10Mhz 6502 I would be willing 339 to bet they are extremly rare. I bring up the main cause of my statement 340 as a result of the continued bable from those who know not whereof they 341 speak that because a computer uses a 10Mhz xtal it must therefor run at 342 10Mhz. This is of course at best pure popycock! 343 I bring up the 10Mhz 6502 only as referance that it is possible, which 344 it is (I have seen it with my own eyes!) But this by no means is indicative 345 that it is a commonly reproducable thing. The actual machine was being 346 pushed to the upmost of its limits, and in fact would crash sometimes 347 as well as requiring some very special hardware considerations as well as 348 programing. It used bipolar RAM and lookahead addressing in hardware 349 since there was no memory access time available it had to be already 350 available upon request. This of course require certain specail programing 351 requirments to assure proper sequencing. 352 In regard to the same technology being used for both machines, again 353 I would have to take issue. The 8080/Z80/8085 machines are what are 354 called state machines, that is they perform instructions by passing 355 thru a series of states. This is done because internaly they operate 356 in different machine langauge (called nano code) which then interperates 357 the incoming instruction and operates on it. The 6502 on the other hand 358 is a dirrect proccesor. That is it operates on the incoming code directly 359 with out the interveaning states. So although the two proccesors use the 360 same silicon and manufacturing processes to be made, there is far more 361 to be said as to how they are made to function. This is why a 6502 362 running at 2Mhz can keep up or run faster then a Z80 running at 4Mhz. 363 As was stated in an earlier message, the real test of a good proccesor 364 is how efficiently it uses it resources, not how fast it crunchs inside 365 since in the end it is whats on the outside that is important, not 366 what is in the inside. 367 Now for the down side.. While I still like the 6502 very much, I 368 have to agree that it is based on old technology and is begining to 369 lose to some of the more powerfull machines (like the 186) but the 370 concepts on which it is based are stil very sound. There are only 371 two things about the 6502 that I find to be lacking to a fault, 372 the limitation of only being able to directly address 65K, and the 373 lack of seperate I/O capabilitiy. The lack of seperate I/O has been 374 a real argument raiser in the past, but I have found that once I 375 got use to the concept it was superior for me in handling I/O. 376 Particularly the indirect ability of the Z80 to take a byte of memory 377 and output it in a single instruction. (Of course the 6502 can do 378 it faster with its indirect function, but I am speaking of programing 379 concepts here not hardware.) Which brings to mind another complaint 380 of mine, what good is a nifty instruction in a computer if the typical 381 programer can't figure out how to use it! If you take a look at most 382 programs, you will find that most do not take advantage of special 383 instructions unless there is no other way to do it. This is because 384 the programer must adhere to a pattern that he can understand so that 385 the program can be seen as a whole not as a collection of nifty parts. 386 *** MORE BABELOUS VERBAGE FROM CISTOP MIKEY *** 8 JAN 83 ************ 387 ************************************************************** 388 I don't know a lot of this technical stuff, but I do 389 know about makeing things, and upgrading them, and 390 other business type activities. 391 Perhaps the reason that the 6502 has not been superceded 392 is that it is (far from being a dead-end) still 393 the state of the art and it is not yet economical to 394 improve or replace it - whereas the z-80 familiy 395 seems to need a lot of improvement. when 16-bit really 396 becomes NECESSARY then Perhaps the 6502 will be upgraded 397 398 to handle it (or be replaced with something better) 399 Companies don't go around messing with their product 400 if they don't have to - that you can be assured of. 401 also, few manufacturers want to see their product 402 die in the marketplace (unless it is uneconomical to produce- 403 and many superior products have been that) 404 *********************************************************** 405 I can't agree with you, I do not beleive that the Z80 is in need 406 of the improvements you suggest, being very familure with both 407 the 6502 and the Z80, I find them to be equally matched in 408 proccessing capabilities. The only real reason for going to 409 the 16biters that I have seen so far is the increased memory 410 accessability. Even that has been very poorly used to date. 411 In fact I don't think I could honestly say that I have seen 412 a 16bit micro perform any job yet that could not have just as 413 readily been done on an 8 biter. Any comments? 414 415 ........................................................... 416 WANTED: 417 A 2101-2 RAM CHIP. 418 419 Check all your junk (parts) bins, take a look at that old wire-wrap card you 420 just got, call your friends. We have a customer with a customer in Boise 421 with a dead TI-810. Yes, fellow hackers, the great TI still uses 2101's in 422 the buffer. 423 Will Pay CASH. Price NEGOTIABLE! Delivery time is 2-4 424 weeks from TI! This boy is in trouble! 425 426 If you got one, or know were one is, call WRAM, xxx-xxxx and ask for Gary. 427 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\1/09/83\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ 428 429 What alot of technicolor bull shit. The whole issue comes down to how much 430 software is available for a given processor, and what processor more 431 computer manufactures are making. The people who decide which processor 432 to use or not use are infinitely more sophisticated to a bunch of stick 433 in the muds who log in to a go nowhere computer system. They plan and 434 plan, and then plan again before they decide on which processor to 435 use. According to a survey in a recent Mini-Micro, the Z80 was 436 used in 1/3 of all micro, or planned micro computers. It was 437 far ahead of any other processor, including 6502, 8086/8, 6809, and 68000. 438 That is saying alot. Companies did not chose the Z-80 over others because 439 their brother in law works for Zilog, they choose it because it could do 440 what they wanted, now, without waiting for the software to be written. Out 441 in the big wide world, someone who is looking for a computer system doesn't 442 want a computer with software 'available soon'. They want it now. The 443 Z80 gives them the software they want now. They don't give a hoot in hell 444 if the 6502 is 2x the Z80, how much stuff is there for a 6502? 445 446 **********TI 99/4 for sale*********** 447 TI 99/4 , manuals and TI Invaders cartridg>enter 448 **********TI 99/4 for sale*********** 449 TI 99/4 , manuals, and TI Invaders cartridge 450 All new. 451 All 150.00 452 Call rick at xxx-xxxx eves. and wkends. 453 ...................................................................... 454 As to memory addressing, have any of you seen an Apple 3? It comes with 455 128k of memory, stock, and can be increased to 256k. It runs the obsolete 456 6502, and has access to most of the apple 2 data and program base. 8 bit 457 machines are not obsolete yet. As to why use an 8080 rather than a 6502, 458 it has a lot to do with what you want to do. They cetainly aren't the 459 last word in 8 bit machines, either. The 6809 should be able to run circles 460 around both (or around z-80) but hasn't seen much use beyond the TRS coco. 461 Much the same reasons exist for using certain processors as certain 462 programming languages: availabilty, speed, future. The 16's will take 463 over eventually in general purpose uses, sometime in the future, but 464 for now the micro world is all 8's, and if you are making something now 465 use one, any one. Why argue if a Hornet could out run Stanley Steamer? 466 (It couldn't) Any modern car will do it, but this isn't why we buy 467 new cars: they have long lasting tires, good headlights, real heaters, 468 are comfortable, dependable, etc. 8 bit machines are not for speed, that 469 depends on what kind of speed you need: a number cruncher will be faster 470 at arithmatic, but how about something that has to look up a lot of data 471 in memory, and then do something with that; it isn't going to use the 472 same machine. For speed use special processors, like the 9511 math chip, 473 for disc acess use the successors to the 1771, etc. The 16's use newer 474 technology, and therefor may run faster, but other limits deny the 475 same thing being done to say a z-80: this requires redesign of existing, 476 working processes and systems to make use of it, and isn't seen as worth 477 it. Apple used the 6502, as it was seen as state of the art in about 1977. 478 Altair ( remember them) used the 8080 because it was what was available. 479 The choice is no longer determined by hardware availability, but by 480 software, and this means compatability, which in 8 bit terms means CP/M, 481 and thei means 8080, 80o85, Z-80. None of these can touch the 16's for 482 speed, but who (besides nuts and cranks) cares, as long as your machine 483 has a 6502 in it, I suggest you use 6502 code, it will run this a lot 484 faster than it will run z-80 code. 485 ..................................................... 486 Enough of this, I use obsolete equipment. For a good reason. I can 487 AFFORD it. It works. It is not blindingly fast, but I send off my 488 moon orbit calculation to Cray, and the word processing is fast enough 489 for my slow printer even when run on a 2 MHz 8080. (However, for 490 certain software reasons, I have replaced the 8080 in this with a z-80) 491 Now, more on obsolete stuff: Does anybody out there have some manuals 492 for Clcomp 142m disc drives? (8") I am trying to add a pair to my 493 system to get access to cp/m, and am having troubles. 494 in particular:what are the timing and polarity requirements of the 495 step and track 43 leads? Where can I get a replacement drive belt? 496 _______________________________Berney 231-8708_______1-9-83;19:33 pm___ 497 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 498 Inertia 499 That's what determines what is used in most computer 500 systems, as well as everything else. Once a pile of software 501 is available for a particular processor, it becomes increasingly 502 difficult to change. 503 Why is the Z-80 most common for general-purpose 504 computing? Because the main operating system (CP/M) was designed 505 to be able to run on ARBITRARY sets of hardware, using an interface 506 software block called a BIOS. This means that a manufacturer can 507 design the computer of his dreams, and as long as he can write the 508 appropriate BIOS, he is suddenly compatible with the rest of the 509 world. 510 Contrary to this, 6502 software tends to be very machine- 511 specific. Example, to run Apple software you essentially have to 512 have an Apple, or a machine specifically designed to be like one. 513 An Atari won't 'look like' an Apple for a long time, I assure you. 514 515 The result of this is that any innovation tends to be 516 hindered. Add a new goodie?? Impossible! 517 518 By the way, the reason Apple used the 6502 is that the 519 chips cost $20, and the 8080 (or z80) were too expensive. This 520 is the worst reason to use a processor: Now a Z80 is $2, and 521 cheap. Because those numbskulls at Apple were too cheap to 522 buy something else! think of it! 523 //////////////////////////// 524 ******************************************************* 525 NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE 526 O C 527 T P. C. S. MEETING LOCATION CHANGE I 528 I T 529 C The Portland Computer Society will not O 530 E be meeting at the Far West Federal any N 531 . more. . 532 N E 533 O We will now be meeting at the P.C.C. C 534 T Sylvania campus at 12000 SW 49th. I 535 I The meeting time is 15 Jan 83 at 1:15 PM T 536 C Doors open at 1:00 PM. Room ST-B14 O 537 E Everyone is Welcome! N 538 . . 539 N P.S. The Feb meeting is the 19th, and the E 540 O March meeting is the 19th also. C 541 T I 542 I The Sylvania campus is just off I-5 T 543 C about 1/4 mile past the Mcdonalds. O 544 E N 545 . . 546 NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE 547 If the Apple is so bad, how did Wozniak (sp??) get to be so rich he 548 could afford to blow a couple million bucks on a rock concert? He must 549 have been doind something right. In fact the Apple 2 has the rather 550 unique ditinction of being the longest lived micro. The machine dependence 551 of 6502 machines has nothing to do with their processor, only their design 552 methods. Most Z-80 machines need interchangeability because they left 553 something out. In any case new features will do them all in, like graphics 554 sound, and maybe even speech. Well done, all these will require more 555 computing power than the curent machines can offer, so we will see these 556 running on bigger cpu's with multimeg discs, though as we learn how, these 557 things are coming to involve less and less overhead and mew hardware does 558 it without as much from the cpu. But then what good is graphics in business 559 software? Pretty graphs are nice, but then you need to write the software 560 to create them, and that is expesive. The Apple, for instance had good 561 graphics way back when, but the use of them was a long time in coming, 562 because it took a long time to write the software, and an even longer 563 time to realize what ti could do.