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News/Talk Forum BBS - May 2, 1988
Msg # 730 Dated 04-28-88 22:59:30
From: ANNA LAPLACE
To: GENE KEEFOVER
Re: (R)FRIENDS OF TOM LEYKIS
Does this mean that you have to appear in court for the hearing??? Or
does a restraining order just mean that you can't picket, send out
letters, etc.???
Msg # 732 Dated 04-28-88 23:22:11
From: JAMES TRIGUERO
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)FRIENDS OF TOM LEYKIS
Good points Jim. This doesn't sound legal to me either. Any lawyers
out there?
Msg # 734 Dated 04-29-88 09:07:34
From: ANNA LAPLACE
To: ALL
Re: HELP!!!
Just out of curiosity, does anyone here know how I can find someone
who's expertise is in fluid dynamics??? I need to find certain
information on the subject!
Msg # 735 Dated 04-29-88 13:50:50
From: JIM DELTON
To: SYSOP
Re: (R)TOM'S BACK
No..
No..
Is Barry Young really as right wing as he sounds on the air?
Loved the interview with the Guy from the Institute for Death (or
whatever). A Rational Crackpot; a refreshing change from all the
irrational ones that come and go.
Msg # 736 Dated 04-29-88 13:53:31
From: JIM DELTON
To: ALAN HAMILTON
Re: (R)NEW WEEKEND HOST
Re: Lee Tate
Space Cadet would be a good description also.....
Msg # 737 Dated 04-29-88 13:58:18
From: JIM DELTON
To: ANNA LAPLACE
Re: (R)HELP!!!
Depends on what you need to know. I had courses in it years ago and
probably still have the books around.
Msg # 738 Dated 04-29-88 14:05:23
From: ALAN HAMILTON
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)FRIENDS OF TOM LEYKIS
It's simply a matter of intimidation. The average person cannot win
a case against a large corporation without outside help, such as the
ACLU. The legal costs are just too high. Sure, they're wrong with this
order. That doesn't help you if you're in jail for contempt of court
because a public defender spent 5 minutes on your case.
/
/ * / Alan
* *
Msg # 739 Dated 04-29-88 14:06:45
From: ALAN HAMILTON
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)FRIENDS OF TOM LEYKIS
You should check out the article on page B9 of Friday morning's
*Republic*. It gives some details about what's going on. I hope Bud
Wilkinson does a column on it, too.
/
/ * / Alan
* *
Msg # 740 Dated 04-29-88 15:39:02
From: PAUL BENJAMIN
To: TIM GINSBACH
Re: (R)IS THIS OUT OF HAND?
Did I get that right? You were served with a summon for nothing more
than participating in this BBS? Did you mention that you were going to
take part in the picketing? Or in contacting sponsors? Anything?
Msg # 741 Dated 04-29-88 16:23:10
From: JAMES TRIGUERO
To: PAUL BENJAMIN
Re: (R)IS THIS OUT OF HAND?
Let me tell you about what happened to me. I just got home to found out
there was a detective here who wanted to question me about my threat to
blow up Fred Weber's transformer. Threat!!!?????? It was a statementt
that I made in fun, (with a disclaimer even). Obviously Weber has a
"mole" who is buffering and printing up what is going on this BBS. My
message to you all: Be careful; Big Brother is watching you.
Msg # 743 Dated 04-29-88 18:13:33
From: TERRY GREEN
To: ALL
Re: IS THIS OUT OF HAND?
I DON'T BELIEVE THIS!
Okay... I just wanted to blow this up your skirts and see if anyone
sneaks a peek: Whataya say we stage a coup, overthrow Weber and replace
him with someone with at least half a brain, then rape and pillage the
news room and finish with a bonfire in the parking lot, complete with
a Weber effigy at the top...
Msg # 744 Dated 04-29-88 19:51:50
From: JOHN SCHUCH
To: PAUL BENJAMIN
Re: (R)IS THIS OUT OF HAND?
Add me to that list to. I did ABSOLUTLY nothing but read this bbs and
send one message to Tom. I also was served. So much for my tax refund,
my atty. is going to get it.
later,
John Schuch
Msg # 749 Dated 04-29-88 21:02:43
From: GENE KEEFOVER
To: MARK SHANDER
Re: (R)BROADCASTER'S BBS
I try that and advise. I think that I tried it before and it didn't
work, but we'll see. Thanks.
Msg # 752 Dated 04-29-88 21:17:55
From: GENE KEEFOVER
To: ALL
Re: PRIVACY
ANY MESSAGES TO BE SENT TO ME, PLEASE ENTER AS R)ECEIVER (personal
mail). This way only the sender, the SYSOPS and receiver can read it.
Just a suggestion. Thanks,
Msg # 753 Dated 04-29-88 21:54:21
From: ANNA LAPLACE
To: GENE KEEFOVER
Re: (R)FRIENDS OF TOM LEYKIS
What is meant by making the TRO permanent???
Msg # 755 Dated 04-29-88 23:06:15
From: JIM LIPPARD
To: ALL
Re: JUDGE CECIL PATTERSON
I think we all know how to vote next time we're asked whether or not we
think this guy should be retained as a Maricopa County Superior Court
Judge. Perhaps a recall is in order (since that seems to be the thing
to do these days).
Msg # 756 Dated 04-30-88 02:25:55
From: JAMES TRIGUERO
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)JUDGE CECIL PATTERSON
What would make a judge issue an order that violated our civil rights?
I bet the order will be made permanent if this is the type of judge he
is. Do you suppose Fred Weber slipped him some cash to see things his
way? We know he would probably resort to underhanded politics because
the potential money he would lose by us boycotting the advertisers. Am
I calling Patterson a crooked judge--no. I'm just saying he issued an
order that most justices wouldn't. We haven't harassed or threatened
anyone. What reason could he give to prevent us from contacting
advertisers or picketing the station. (I haven't received an order yet,
so I'll be candid with you all). I say we raise funds through sponsers
and take the issue to court. If not for pride--for the principle of the
matter.
Msg # 757 Dated 04-30-88 02:36:50
From: JAMES TRIGUERO
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)JUDGE CECIL PATTERSON
Read the following carefully: "Congress shall make no law respecting
an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, of the right of the
people peacebly to assemble, and to petition the Government for a
redress of grievances."<------- That is the first amendment of the
Constitution verbatim. It doesn't take a legal scholar to realize
Weber and Patterson to deprive us of our most basic right. I say we
fight this thing. The only precedent for the limitation of our free
expression is if their is a clear and present danger. What is this
danger? THERE IS NONE!!!! The most patriotic thing we could do would
be to take this to court. Who is willing to seek sponsers to test this?
Msg # 758 Dated 04-30-88 02:55:09
From: JAMES TRIGUERO
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)JUDGE CECIL PATTERSON
I can't understand why a judge would violate our civil rights. I know
some of you think that Weber, fearing lost revenue from the advertisers
slipped Patterson a wad of bills---Keep it to yourselves!! If you don't
you can bet Weber would have you in court for libel, and you wouldn't
have any proof. I would sign a recall petition. Too bad you can't
recall general managers. (I am NOT Insinuating that Weber greased
Patterson's palm--just warning others!) By the way--- I don't see whyu
advertisers couldn't get anonymous letters from the Underground Friends
of Tom Leykis. Hint, Hint. and Fred can stuff this message up his
nose--I haven't received a restraining order yet. We shouldn't let then
trample our first amendment rights!!!
Msg # 759 Dated 04-30-88 07:14:54
From: MIKE STACKPOLE
To: ALL
Re: RESTRAINT?
I feel left out. No one came to give me a restraining order. Maybe I
wasn't home when they came.
Now, as I see it, a bunch of you have been restrained, right? But
there are others of us who have not been restrained. It's got to cost
Fred to have folks serve these restraining orders, right? It looks to
me like civil disobedience time on a small scale. If we leave messages
on other BBSs telling all the anti-social folks on the networks to send
out letters just to tweak Weber's nose, I'm certain we can turn up the
heat.
Of course, I'm not suggesting this because that would violate the
restraining order, but then I've not gotten one...
Let me put this in terms even Fred can understand: If you want to
destroy the enemy, you'd best spike ALL the cannons...
Later, I have work to do...
Msg # 761 Dated 04-30-88 19:57:29
From: GENE KEEFOVER
To: JIM LIPPARD
Re: (R)JUDGE CECIL PATTERSON
I'm not sure that I can comment. I think that you have a good idea, but
I'm afraid to say that for sure. I'm just not sure what I can and
cannot say anymore!!!!!
Msg # 762 Dated 04-30-88 19:59:14
From: GENE KEEFOVER
To: JAMES TRIGUERO
Re: (R)JUDGE CECIL PATTERSON
The question is not who is willing, but who has the funds. I'm sure
that you have heard of the "Golden Rule"; Them that has the Gold makes
the Rules.....
Msg # 768 Dated 05-01-88 02:09:44
From: STEVE GRESSER
To: TERRY GREEN
Re: (R)IS THIS OUT OF HAND?
You'd better be careful - if there IS a mole on this BBS, he's gonna
bite and take you out to pasture with that statement. Just look at it
- intent on violence, destruction of private property, and rape. You
may end up in prison for making a joke!
Msg # 772 Dated 05-01-88 07:35:29
From: MIKE STACKPOLE
To: ALL
Re: LAST LAUGH...
I thought you all might appreciate this (especially Fred's techno-spy).
It is a letter I got yesterday...
Dear Radio Listener,
Ann Clark of Arbitron Ratings will call your home in the next few days.
She will invite you to tell us what you listen to on radio.
Won't you please talk to Mrs. Clark when she calls? We think you'll
enjoy being in the radio survey.
Enjoy? ENJOY?
I'll love the living hell out of it!
Mike
Msg # 773 Dated 05-01-88 11:24:46
From: JOHN SCHUCH
To: ALL
Re: MURPHY
Normally, I'd just as well tell Mr. Pat Murphy of the Republic just
which short dock to walk off of.....
but his collum on page C3 of todays Sunday Republic is must reading
for anyone mired in this nonsence.
later,
John Schuch
Msg # 774 Dated 05-01-88 14:43:42
From: JAMES TARANTO
To: ALL
Re: CAN ANYONE READ THIS?
I am a new user. (Don't worry, I left a VALID VOICE PHONE NUMBER, two
in fact, and Jim Lippard will vouch for me.) I anyone able to read this?
I am not. New users are allowed to enter messages, but they aren't
allowed to read them. (They can scan the headers, however.) Also, new
users can page the sysop (though he isn't in), but they can't change
into expert mode. I would like to get a copy of the program that
determined which commands new users may use; it seems to be an excellent
random number generator.
On another topic, what's the deal with this restraining order? (Not
that I will be able to read anything about it until I've been
validated.)
Msg # 775 Dated 05-01-88 16:53:19
From: SYSOP
To: ALL
Re: MY ABSENCE
Let me apologize for the messages to which I have not been able to
respond. Being back to work and spending prep time has diminished the
time I've been able to devote to this BBS.
I have read Pat Murphy's column in the Sunday Republic's Perspective
section, and while I cannot comment here, I will have a comment tomorrow
in the form of a motion before Maricopa County Superior Court at, I
believe, 10 AM. It is public record, so let me say that on Friday
afternoon at 2:30 as I left for work, my employer, The Broadcast Group,
Inc., the owner of KFYI and KKFR, subpoenaed all documents and records
relating to this BBS, including your home telephone numbers, addresses,
and passwords. While I cannot comment on this specific case here, let me
say that in my personal life, I am consistent with my on-air stated
principles of freedom of speech and assembly, as well as a right of
privacy for ALL, no matter who they are, or how uncomfortable the cause.
I will always stand up for these rights for ALL. Are you getting my
drift? If not, keep an eye on Superior Court tomorrow.
also want to publicly apologize to all who have been inconvenienced
(an understatement?) by the actions of a BBS user who fraudulently
obtained access to this board. I believe that this kind of activity is
the most offensive kind of trickery to computer users.
Msg # 776 Dated 05-01-88 17:08:43
From: SYSOP
To: ALL
Re: MY ABSENCE
I have deleted one particular user who used a phony telephone number to
get validated. This user never left any public messages...just used the
BBS at odd times like 3:45 AM (right before work, perhaps?) and logged
on sometimes for very long periods. He also left personal comments which
were designed to trap me into public comments on things I shouldn't be
talking about ("What is your situation with management, anyway?")
Also, a word to the wise, absolutely public and above board. I have
repeatedly been encouraging users to make the majority of their messages
PUBLIC so all can read them. My recommendation, simply, is to not leave
ANY message, public OR private, that you wouldn't want to own up to in
court or anywhere else. Obviously, with a temporary restraining order
pending, your messages could end up in court. We have never, and will
never, endorse illegal activities on this BBS. However, we also will not
censor messages unless there is an overt illegal act advocated within.
In other words, you are free to express any opinion, publicly or
privately, however, as they said on "Dragnet", "Anything you say can and
WILL be used against you in a court of law." Welcome to the Soviet
Union, friends. I hate this.
Again, my apologies for the invasions of your privacy. Mine's been
invaded too. I'm doing something about it. ***********Tom Leykis
Msg # 777 Dated 05-01-88 17:21:24
From: SYSOP
To: ALL
Re: THANK YOU
I want to say that many folks have gone above and beyond anything I have
ever seen in their support of me and my talk show. I mean, it's just a
TALK SHOW, for Christ's sake.
I want to thank everyone who has written, both electronically and to
my post office box, and ESPECIALLY those who have been harassed for no
good reason by the First Amendment Police. I hope I haven't let you
down.
Pat Murphy chastised KFYI's talk show hosts for tacitly approving such
harassment by saying nothing. He is right. But in the next few days, it
will become clear that I, at least, am NOT saying nothing. KFYI's hosts
have said nothing to me, or on my behalf, throughout this whole ordeal.
Why should they start now? I have an opinion. It will be expressed in
court. I won't let my listeners down. Keep an eye out here for further
developments.
Thank you so much.
Tom Leykis
The News/Talk Radio Forum
USSR
Msg # 778 Dated 05-01-88 17:32:34
From: CHRIS MITCHELL
To: JIM HANSON
Re: (R)COMPUSERVE JFORUM
Aha! Affording 2400 bps CompuBucks is not a problem, if you use TAPCIS.
This program automates all your CIS functions. First pass, you pick up
your mail and message headers on pre-selected forums. Then you decide
which msgs. you want to read, which you pick up on your second pass.
Then, offline of course, you read and reply to any messages you choose.
Also, you can do a database search, download, whatever at any time. (I
haven't figured out uploading yet... oops.) Anyway, third pass the
program posts your messages and/or replies, searches the databases and
downloads for you, and then you're done. When you exit the program, it
gives you your time & charges, and an estimate of what you're going to
spend this month if you stick to the same calling pattern. What used to
take me 45 minutes at 1200 now takes 8 min. at 2400. I used to limit
myself to one - or occasionally two - logons a week. Now I can get on
twice a week, usually Sat. and Sun. a.m., and I've cut my bill by two
thirds. If you haven't seen this gem, grab it from the WORD PERFECT
USERS GROUP on CompuMoney. It's big, and they'd love a donation "if you
like and use the program," but it's worth it in any case. Even CIS likes
it. They figure, it does cut down on time spent, but the frequency of
logons goes up. So what the hell. Plus, it's fun!
Msg # 779 Dated 05-01-88 22:10:33
From: JOHN SCHUCH
To: ALL
Re: LOTS
I'll bet a whole lot of passwords on a whole lot of systems change in
the next few days.
later,
John Schuch
Msg # 781 Dated 05-01-88 23:45:33
From: TERRY GREEN
To: SYSOP
Re: USSR
Comrade Leykis:
To you, I say: Da, da. I look forward to this week's listening.
-------Comrade Green
Msg # 782 Dated 05-02-88 01:34:32
From: JAMES TRIGUERO
To: SYSOP
Re: (R)MY ABSENCE
Tom, thank you so much for giving me a better idea about what is going
on. While a can of worms has been opened, I hope you are flattered by
the extent that your listeners have gone to to get you back on the air.
Their efforts reflect tremendous loyalty to your show, which reflects
the caliber of your broadcasting ability. Please keep us informed.
Msg # 783 Dated 05-02-88 06:22:27
From: MIKE STACKPOLE
To: SYSOP
Re: (R)THANK YOU
Tom,
Thanks for your efforts to keep Phoenix part of the United States of
America. I could have sworn we had a constitution around here
somewhere. I'm hearing Contempt of Court here... If so, we'll bake you
a cake with a file in it, or say 'hi' from adjoining cells.
Damn, I'll never get this third book done on schedule...
Word to the wise -- don't hire Leonard or Craft. Maybe Bill French is
available. And don'tuse the 'Willard did it' defense...
Mike
Msg # 784 Dated 05-02-88 06:36:35
From: CONCERNED CITIZEN
To: ALL
Re: EDITORIAL #1
The following is reprinted from the Sunday, May
1st, 1988, Arizona Republic. It's an editorial
by Mr. Pat Murphy and is copyrighted.
"BOYCOTT OFFERS FIRST-AMENDMENT LESSON TO KFYI OWNER"
Economic boycotts are one of the purest and, sometimes, one
of the most effective forms of public influence on corporate
decisions.
Homemakers have turned the wrath of boycotts on meat,
coffee and sugar prices, and brought them down when companies
found sales hurting.
A few years ago, several corporations withdrew advertising
from controversial network TV shows when consumers threatened
to boycott their products.
Groups have promoted convention boycotts on states for not
ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment or for not creating a
holiday honoring the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: CONCERNED CITIZEN
To: ALL
Re: EDITORIAL #2
United Farm Workers union leader Cesar Chavez championed a
consumer boycott of grapes and lettuce. The 7-Eleven
convenience store chain faced a boycott by religious groups
because of girlie magazines on store shelves.
Three choices are open to those threatened by a boycott.
First, companies can ignore them and go about their
business, suffering whatever consequences, if any, develop.
Second, they can respond to the pressure and bow to boycott
demands.
Or, third, they can whine and react by trying to silence
the boycotters.
In supreme acts of petulance and childishness, the states
of Missouri and Nevada asked federal courts in 1979 to
prohibit the Nation Organization for Women (NOW) from
encouraging convention boycotts of states that failed to
ratify ERA. One could almost hear the judges guffaw as they
dismissed the suits.
My guess is the same awaits Fred Weber, a Detroit beer
distributor having a heady media fling as owner of radio
station KFYI (910 AM.)
Msg # 786 Dated 05-02-88 06:54:07
From: CONCERNED CITIZEN
To: ALL
Re: EDITORIAL #3
KFYI listeners are loyal. Tom Leykis, an afternoon host,
has a rabid following. Some fans are outraged by Weber's
unexplained demotion of Leykis.
(One must take it on faith that the Weber-Leykis feud is
real, not a concocted fuss to hype KFYI's poor ratings.)
Weber has asked a court to silence KFYI listeners. They are
protesting his policies and asking other listeners to boycott
KFYI advertisers.
What is so striking about Weber's suit is that a radio
station that deals in free speech often downright tasteless
is so eager to muzzle free speech of others.
Weber may understand beer, but he has a way to go with the
First Amendment.
What is also so striking is that KFYI's talk-show hosts who
enjoy freedom to speak would tacitly endorse this hostility
to free speech and such obvious hypocrisy with their silence.
I know a little of Weber's grumpiness.
Msg # 787 Dated 05-02-88 06:55:01
From: CONCERNED CITIZEN
To: ALL
Re: EDITORIAL #4
Last week, Weber telephoned to protest 'Arizona Republic'
columnist Bud Wilkinson writing, in part, that listeners can
get the attention of any radio station "by failing to put
down a station's call letters when participating in a rating
survey."
Wilkinson did not mention KFYI or any station.
Weber was furious, and to hear him tell it, Wilkinson's
column would bring Weber ruin. It would cost him "millions."
That's what he said. "Millions."
He wanted a retraction.
He demanded an apology.
He insisted on a correction.
It was a breathless exposition.
Nope, I said. Wilkinson is entitled to his opinion.
Besides, I told Weber, cool down. No column would cost him
millions.
The last I heard as Weber hung up was that his attorney
would call our attorney.
Msg # 788 Dated 05-02-88 06:55:57
From: CONCERNED CITIZEN
To: ALL
Re: EDITORIAL #5
My, my.
Weber obviously is a babe in the woods.
He should have been over here while then-Gov. Evan Mecham's
attack dogs were trying - unsuccessfully, I might add - to
shut down our newspapers with advertising and circulation
boycotts, and smears of our staff so ugly they would make you
wince.
One Mecham loyalist wrote form letters to national
advertisers on a first-name basis, as if he knew them, such
as to "Dear Carl" when writing to Carl Icahn, chairman of
Trans World Airlines. Many recipients returned the letters to
me, asking, "What sort of Looney Tunes do you have in
Arizona?"
Incidentally, our national advertising revenues grew by 9.2
percent in 1987.
Still other Mecham strategists tried to trigger a wave of
circulation cancellations. However, for 1987, we can document
only 637 home-delivery subscriptions permanently canceled in
protest because of Mecham coverage.
Msg # 789 Dated 05-02-88 06:56:44
From: CONCERNED CITIZEN
To: ALL
Re: EDITORIAL #6
Meanwhile, 'Republic' daily circulation increased, thank
you, by 4.4 percent, 'Phoenix Gazette' increased 4.6 percent
and the Sunday 'Republic' increased 5.5 percent.
There's a lesson here for Weber.
If Weber believes his KFYI policies are sound, then let his
listeners decide with their support or their protest in the
free marketplace where ideas are tested rigorously.
If he's right, business will flourish.
If he's wrong, well, as I say, there is a world of
difference between distributing beer and understanding the
First Amendment.
-30-
Msg # 790 Dated 05-02-88 08:45:15
From: BILL BOROSKI
To: ALL
Re: NON-STOP
Once you select (NS) non-stop, how do you pause and/or return to reading
messages one at a time?
Msg # 792 Dated 05-02-88 18:48:32
From: JIM SPEISER
To: GENE KEEFOVER
Re: (R)FRIENDS OF TOM LEYKIS
Does this restraining order apply to use of the News/Talk Forum, as
well? And how can a court order apply to private correspondence? What
are they going to do, prosecute you for sending a letter? What's going
on, anyway? I wasn't served, but I understand that one of my messages is
included in the legal brief.
MAIN command [?,B,C,E,H,I,J,K,O,P,Q,R,S,T,U,X]? c
Leave a comment for TOM (Y/[N])? y
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[----------------------------------------------------------------------]
1: I spoke with Walt and Pat Wilkinson of the American Atheists the other
2: day. They are going ahead with their planned picket and they will be
3: notifying me and I in turn will keep you posted.
4: All last week, KFYI's Barry Young has been soliciting for people to
5: picket at the State Capitol concerning a right to life issue. Hmmmmmm.
6: James Taranto recently applied for status, he is living in
7: California and he is a writer for Reason Magazine, he is a friend of
8: Lippard and I. Get him on, he can help. He is changing positions in
9: the near future, he will be with The Heritage Foundation, a Washington,
10: D.C. based think tank that has wide influences, including the Reagan
11: administration.
12: Take care, and good luck. It sure sounds like your rights are being
13: violated as well as some of your users.
14: Have you or anyone from the group been able to get in touch with
15: Louis Rhodes, ACLU?
16: Rod
17: end
18: s
19:
A)bort, C)ontinue, D)elete, E)dit, I)nsert, L)ist, M)argin, S)ave
Edit Sub-function ? s
ROD, Thanks for comments!