Apollo BBS Archive - September 1990

Apollo BBS Archive - September 2, 1990

Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 69126
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger/obtuse
Date: 09/01/90  Time: 22:29:41

I don't think you understand.  Points are geometric entities, not physical
entities.  The coordinates given in your hypothetical accident example
define a geometric entity with zero dimension, called a point.  They do not
describe anything real.  They can only be interpreted in terms of physical
reality by finding physical entities which *roughly* satisfy them.
Let's leave time out of this altogether, because it is just one more thing
to confuse you.  Look: there is no point defined by any coordinates X,Y,Z at
McDowell and Central.  Points are purely imaginary, Roger.  You cannot say
that such and such atom is the point X,Y,Z, because atoms are three
dimensional and points are zero dimensional.  The most you can do is
associate the "center" of the intersection with a point X,Y,Z in your
mathematical schematic.

Message: 69127
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 09/01/90  Time: 22:39:55

I made a perfectly valid point with regard to any Bush/Hussein debate.
The point is, the affair is not between America and Iraq, much less Bush and
Hussein.  The affair is between those countries which belong to the United
Nations with which the United States is but one player (albeit an important
one) sharing a common viewpoint, and Iraq as well as those countries (very
few in the world community) which support Iraq.  To arrange a debate between
Bush and Hussein is to present the affair in a skewed perspective, one in
which the battle is between the U.S. and Iraq.  That is exactly what Hussein
has in mind.  He obviously has nothing else to gain other than a public
relations benifit among anti-American forces; not by making any rational
points, but by emotional rhetoric.  The matter is, and should continue to be
mediated by the U.N. Secretary General. I have yet to see you raise any
logical objections to this point; so far, it's just been a lot of rhetoric
and name calling.

Message: 69129
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Max
Date: 09/01/90  Time: 22:42:48

I'm interested. 

Message: 69130
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: rapture time
Date: 09/01/90  Time: 23:10:32

Anybody have a date set for the Rapture ? I figure it will be when 
Bush nukes the chemical weapons factories (or sends many, many planes
to wipe out Hussein's military and industrial capabilities. I think that
Bush will use a trumped up excuse, much like the Gulf of Tonkin fraud,
to launch a devastating and lethal attack on Iraq. I heard Sen. McCain
in what sounded like a very sad voice say that he thought that Bush would
act very soon. Fellow Americans, when did we lose control ?

Message: 69131
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod/Iraq
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 02:09:47

Yes, the innocents always suffer. However, think about it before you villify
the US...who started this conflict? Who walked in and took over a
neighboring country to wipe out a few bills incurred from another stupid
pointless war? Do you really think that Hussein is such a terrific guy to
his own people?
I mean, am I missing out on something? Is it perfectly ok to take over
defenseless small neighboring countries? Anything to avoid a war right this
minute, huh?
Never mind about the bigger, nastier war that could be next...we'll Neville
Chamberlain our way out of that one, too...

Message: 69132
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: War!
Subject: nukes/iraq
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 02:15:37

Why does everyone always instantly equate our nuclear weapons with Iraq's
chemical weapons? I seriously disbelieve that anyone other than an
unpredictable, hazardous flake such as Hussein would break out nuclear
weapons for anything other than the most dire, last ditch effort...the
chemical weapon business has been highly overstated and overrated...sure,
it's pretty easy to kill a bunch of defenseless little old ladies and men in
peasant villages, but those who could run away survived the Kurdish attacks.
I certainly hope we can be better prepared.
Going afterIraq with nuclear weapons in answer to chemical ones would be
something akin to levelling someone with an Uzi for shooting at you with a
spring-loaded BB gun...

Message: 69133
Author: Jack Snidely
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mann/microcephalic
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 02:19:56

Beck was wrong.  Apparently there ARE points in real space-time...as your
haberdasher will readily attest.

Message: 69134
Author: Jack Snidely
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: food
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 02:22:22

No one is starving in Iraq at this point.  The first thing people will be
deprived of is their luxury food-stuffs.  The idea is to make Hussein very
unpopular among his own people so that, before the point of actual famine is
ever reached, he will have been deposed. 

Message: 69135
Author: Woger Mann
Category: War!
Subject: Grrrr!
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 03:09:59

Ooooh, I HATE dat wascally wabbit!!!

Message: 69136
Author: Red Dwarf
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Michael Kielsky/Econ
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 07:08:30

  I agree, you are confused. Since when has capitalism been concerned with
anything except the accumulation of power(capital) for its own purposes? As
long as you are suggesting reading material, try reading 'Death of a System'
by Leonard Nadolski. Of course you're atrophied in your ways, but maybe
someone else can have an open mind.

Message: 69137
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Max
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 08:21:27

Thank you for the most interesting history lesson on Germany and Hitler.
                             -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 69138
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: snidely/bugout
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 11:27:31

      

Message: 69139
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: food/Iraq
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 11:52:51

I was reading that they have up to six months of food with rationing, two or
three months of supplies under normal circumstances.

Message: 69140
Author: John Galt
Category: Politics
Subject: CHILD ABUSE
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 12:58:13

IF YOU WERE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, HOW WOULD YOU REACT TO THE FOLLOWING
REPORT...?
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SOME ARIZONA TEENAGERS ARE INVOLVED IN "ABUSE RINGS",
SCHEMES OF ADULT INTIMIDATION WHICH SEEK RELAXED DISCIPLINE IN EXCHANGE FOR
SILENCE. ANY CHILD CAN CALL THE STATE'S CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES OFFICES TO
REPORT THAT HE/SHE, OR A FRIEND, IS THE VICTIM OF BEATING, SEXUAL
MOLESTATION OR "PUT-DOWNS". THE ACCUSATIONS CAN BE ANONYMOUS. THEY DO NOT
HAVE TO BE TRUE. THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF ACCUSED ADULTS MAY BE ABRIDGED
AT THE DISCRETION OF CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES.

Message: 69141
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: News Today
Subject: U.S.S.R.
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 16:03:06

Well, has everyone heard about the new 500 day plan for political and
economic reforms in the U.S.S.R.?  According to today's Republic, Gorbachev
and Yeltsin have agreed on a plan to "dismantle central economic controls
and move to free markets in 500 days...cede nearly total economic autonomy
to the 15 constituent republics, freeing them from the dictates of central
planning and state ownership.  In return the republics would participate in
a coordinated emergency program to stabilize the economy.  In the first 100
days the plan calls for the preparation of laws expanding the rights of
private ownership, creating a banking system and stock markets, and
establishing a social safety net for those with low incomes.  The republics
and central government would begin to bring inflation under control by
selected wage and price controls and an infusion of imported consumer goods
to absorb loose cash."
 
Apparently, there are massive cigarette shortages.  The state allowance is
something like five packs a month, and street vendors are selling jars of
butts for $16.  One wonders how important the nicotine habit was in
hastening such reforms.  Apparently, there have been massive "tobacco
riots."   Afghanistan is airlifting the critical weed into Mother Russia,
and the Soviets are even lifting a 29 year ban on trade with Albania in
order to get the stuff.  Of course, there are also massive shortages of
food, gas, and pharmaceuticals, but as one Soviet man said, "We've never
been without tobacco before.  You can do without vegatables, various foods
and things like that, but if you're a smoker cigarettes are your #1 need."

Message: 69142
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/name calling
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 17:17:04

WHAT?  When?  Where?

Message: 69143
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/Hussein
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 17:26:16

Saddam Hussein is an attorney and a very intelligent person I might add. 
There are some really beautiful treasures among the Arab nations.  I would
like to see a two hour long Saddam Hussein Program so that I can be closer
to understanding what really is happening.

As a locksmith in Phoenix, Arizona I am not among the privledged few that
decides what to 'leak' to or in some cases allow the press and news media to
say.  

Therefore I want to either see the debate or at least hear the Iraqi
viewpoint from the lips of Hussein.  No other will do.

I don't want to listen to Bush tell everyone what an evil empire Iraq is or
that Saddam Hussein is like Hitler or that Neil Bush was taken in by some
clever con men in the S & L business.  I want to hear the Iraqi view from an
Iraqi.

I've noticed something over the years and that is whenever situations start
heating up and the threat of war looms close then it is the people who have
muscles instead of brains that want us to fight.   It is the beer swigging,
sports nut who wants war.  Of course there are those exceptions.

When I have called you a name?  (One that you could hear.)   -Rod

Message: 69144
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy/blame
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 17:32:34

You asked who started this conflict, who REALLY or what REALLY started it. 
From my information (National Geographic, 1980 issue) it was started about
423 BC.

From what I gather the U.S. is in there because we want to control the oil
(in the form of a puppet) just as we want to control the Panama Canal (same
idea but a Spanish speaking puppet) just as when we installed a government
in So. Vietnam and had them invite our military intervention.

Can't we just purchase the stuff.  Hell, it's on the market and everyone
will have a chance to buy it.  It does no one any good sitting in storage
tanks.  You can't eat it or even drink it.  Don't we have oil on our lands. 
Buy American!

I don't know, what was the question again?
                                Rod

Message: 69145
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Red Dwarf
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 17:35:11

I'm totally hetrosexual but I think I love you anyway.  Good posts, dude.

Message: 69146
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Arab Nations
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 17:48:42

I have dug out 6 National Geographics from 1972 to 1980.  In these chosen
issues are stories on Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Iran and Saudi Arabia.  I
glanced over them last evening, mostly scanning the pictures as I had
company but from what I saw there are some really beautiful wonders of the
world in those nations.  Some real treasures as far as their buildings and
people are evident.

These people are not greasy terrorists but I'm sure they exist there just as
they do here but it is within a very small minority.  But of course they
make the news because they rock the boats.

There are pictures of the 'regular' folks who most anyone on this board
would be proud to call friend.  Their culture is quite advanced.

I'm going to set aside some time to read up on those particular magazines
and I will tell you what I have learned.

Don't make judgements of an important nature just because you saw a news
release on tv.  You may have a long time to regret your decision.

If the U.S. was so prissy innocent then perhaps I'd believe more of what I
heard instead of questioning and being devil's advocate.  -Rod


Message: 69147
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Saddam
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 21:09:20

So, he's a lawyer.  How far do you trust lawyers?
 
If you don't believe the US media's (or Bush's) slant on Iraq, why would you
believe Iraq's side of the story?

Message: 69148
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John Galt
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 22:15:22

Who is John Galt ? --- I've always wanted to say that --- 

Message: 69149
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: rod/nat'l geographic
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 22:20:14

no, no, no. Don't you realize that we must de-humanize the enemy first.
Getting to know the enemy will result in peace, not war.

Message: 69150
Author: $ Mad Max
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Germany
Date: 09/02/90  Time: 23:55:44

Well I've got some more historical notes, Hitler implemented the so called
final solution of the jewish problem in 1940, because his SS men could not
shot them fasyt enough. But the rest of the world did nothing about it, like
the US, when the port authorities in new york turned back a ship full of
exiled jews from germany.As I understand every one of those jews was later
gased in aushwitz after every country in the world turned the ship away, and
they had no choice but to go back to germany. I personally think that hitler
and his hench men were testing to world with that move at that time to see
what would happen, and the obvious message to them at that time was that
noone cared about the jews or what hitler did to them. Now on an other note
just think if the rest of the world and especially the US would have ignored
husseins agression? By ingnoring him we could have had potentionaly the same
situation, but maybe we have learned a lesson from history.
Well later on
                       THE

Message: 69151
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Numusmatics
Date: 09/03/90  Time: 00:12:29

  Were you aware that 64 Kennedy half-dollars are worth $32?

             ____nhnnn________  We all live in a yellow subroutine

Message: 69152
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Question?
Subject: Jeff Beck
Date: 09/03/90  Time: 00:14:15

  So what's your point?  That since coordinate system and mathematics are
all in our heads and are not actual physical phenomena, then the models we
have of the universe to not behave *at* *all* like the physical universe?
 
       =(O,O)=   Hoot!

Message: 69153
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau/trust
Date: 09/03/90  Time: 02:10:06

I have a hard time believing what I read or hear on the news.  This is
only because I know that human error exists and that sensationalism sells
newspapers.  

There are various reasons I am this way and one of them is that I resided
in Los Angeles from 1960-62 and saw that everyday the Hurst newspaper had a
very large headline with some sensational headline.  As I recall it seemed
to take up the top third of the front page.  

Also I've had first hand information on stories that were put into print
or spoken on the news that were either incorrect, slanted or both.

Again, I've watched a show on PBS, twice now, that dealt with CIA
activities in Iran and South America.  It was very shocking and although I
know it was only a story I've developed a certain respect for PBS.  The
story gave names and dates and even told which U.S. Presidents and their
associates were involved.

I think it would be the proper thing that President Bush and President
Saddam Hussein met, shook hands and then both agreed to have a U.N. hearing
to determine the fairest solution to all parties.  I thought it was better
to handle bad situations in a court of law, so to speak.  I don't believe
that people should take weapons into court either and it seems that all
sides are armed to the teeth.           Rod

Message: 69154
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mad Max/Germany
Date: 09/03/90  Time: 02:18:45

The U.S. Military was shocked and surprised at seeing the death camps. 
They were kept a close guarded secret.  Everyone, jew, gypsy, homosexual,
artist and what not who found out about them were gassed.  The people who
had first hand information weren't on the list of those to be eliminated and
they did not want to be either.

I don't know how anyone outside of Germany could have stopped the
destruction any earlier because to do so would simply mean that we would
have had to liberate Germany sooner but as it were the U.S., French,
English and the Russians were giving it their all.

The people to blame have changed forms and therefore all we can do is
learn from that knowledge and not allow it to ever happen.

Message: 69155
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Numismatics
Date: 09/03/90  Time: 02:22:01

Did you know that in 1964 fifty cents would buy what it takes $32 to buy
now?

                                All aboard captain.