Apollo BBS Archive - September 1990

Apollo BBS Archive - September 12, 1990

Mail from John Cummings
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 19:52:52

        It confuses me when you tell me "what Christians say" or "What
Christians think" when it is something not Christian at all. A meteor
striking the earth and destroying all life is still the work of nature. In
other words, nature is not limited to this earth, it encompasses all
material existence.
        Now, one good valid description of God is that since he is the
creator of all, and since the plan of evolution must therefore be his plan,
then everything that happens, including the fatal cataclysm finale, must be
part of the nature He made. Okay?

Mail from John Cummings
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:02:01

        I've read Dana's Two Years Before the Mast.  It has been several
years, I confess, and I don't really remember enough of it to relate it to
this discussion. (I keep confusing it with Moby Dick>)
        I have to admit, though, that when I go up in the mountains or out
to the beach and take a deep breath I sometimes choke on the fumes, the
smoke, or the salt air or the scent of dead fish, but I usually want to
express appreciation for the work of the creator; in general, I think He did
a good job.
        You have a good point in the attitude that "people are no damn good"
but that must pertain to the faults and flaws in people: in essence, they
are pretty neat, but their own free will allows them to screw up. I submit
that babies are great until they grow up.
        Do you really see no difference between the "free will", the
'choice", the intelligence of man, and that of animal? Are you arguing that
the development of hands and fingers caused the "intelligence" in the
so-called human?  Wow!                   --John C.--
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:I never said that hands and feet caused intelligence but they did allow us 
 2:the capability of building wheels and spears and clubs and one thing led to 
 3:another and we kept improving on them.
 4:
 5:Far as I can tell all species of animal communicate with their own kind 
 6:quite well.  Perhaps the other have seen what we have done and feel no 
 7:survival need to develop intricate hands.  I know that we'd be a lot better 
 8:off if we hadn't.
 9:
10:And in order for man to be able to communicate with his own kind then the 
11:man must know fluently many different languages.  I wonder if all Bob Whites
12:speak the same language all over the globe.
13:
14:If I am relaying to you that man is no good then I must also include myself 
15:in that list.  I am not separating anything.

Mail to John Cummings
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 23:10:28

So God makes earthquakes, floods, tornados, hurricanes and the like,
including world destruction from time to time as part of his 'everyday
plan.'

Everything, in other words is God's doing.  Even if The Great Deceiver
caused misery, pain and death then this too has to ultimately come through
or be approved by God before it can be done.  Then God is DIRECTLY
responsible for all facets of life rather it be good or terrible.  Hmmm.

This God character is some mightly busy dude.  But notice that I did not
say, 'intelligent' because only an idiot could create a jumble such as this.
A big one at that.

All life in the universe is equal AND related.  Everything is joined by
atomic structure whether it be a loose network or solid mass.  The
electrical impulses throughout this universe has evidentially found a
system, after who knows how many eons, of thought.  It is like building
blocks and ergo it learns and we, all life everywhere, is a part of it.

However in this stage of life, in this area of our universe, in these bodies
of bone and flesh we are none too smart.  Fact is were are still stupid. 
But I suspect that the energy that is in the surrounding area, around the
earth, planets and sun and among the Milky Way that life that may exist
without the body of bone and such just may be more intelligent and if there
is something that has feelings, such as electrical impulses with thought
then that would be what is trying to help us.  But I doubt if the lowly
human, with perhaps few exceptions, can tune in to the frequency while still
a captive of flesh.

I would call this connected universal energy, The Universal Mind.  However I
really do not know if it exists.  I am only making a theory.

But consider that nothing in the universe has ever died but only changed
into something else.  Our bodies are atomic structures that hopefully go
back into the ground to help nourish the next generation.  But the
electrical impulses that we each contain would most probably form in the
atmosphere and move around.  It would be a totally different kind of being
than the human animal and in fact if this happened to human then it would
also happen to cats, dogs, plants, etc.  It would happen to all that contain
some sort of electrical impulses.

Where does one come from at birth?

Look, I worked extremely hard today AND this evening.  This afternoon the
baking sun did some cooking on me and now I feel almost done.  I am not
going to edit what I have written because my mind is beyond Mars by this
time.  I am really tired.  Take care,   Rod

Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 69457
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod/Bayer
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 04:47:52

Sure they're being monopolistic.  You don't have to lower your prices to
drive competitors from the market in order to be monopolistic.  In fact, if
they lowered their price to match Western Family's price, they'd probably
lose some of their monopolistic market share.  Remember -- you get what you
pay for .

Message: 69459
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: a riddle
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 04:59:37

Which weighs more: a pound of gold or a pound of feathers?
 
Careful -- it's a trick-trick question.

Message: 69460
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: wrench
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 05:17:15

I once lost a wrench outside a spacecraft.  It took up an elliptical orbit
around the ship as an artificial satellite.  Later, I burnt a piece of
sirloin on an overheated atomic pile, so I threw it overboard, too.
Instead of leaving the rocket, it too became an artificial satellite, which
produced a brief eclipse of the sun every eleven minutes and four seconds
(the sun was pretty small at my distance from it).  I calculated until
"evening" the components of its trajectory, as well as the orbital
perturbation caused by the lost wrench.  I figured out that for the next six
million years the sirloin, rotating about the ship in a circular path, would
lead the wrench, then catch up to it from behind and pass it again.
Exhausted by these calculations, I went to bed.  During the night I had the
feeling someone was shaking me by the shoulder.  I opened my eyes and
someone was standing over the bed; his face was strangely familiar, or
rather, his eyebrows were.  He claimed to be a bible salesman, or a Senator;
depending on which timeline you accepted.  "I'm alone on this rocket," I
said, "and have been for two years, en route from Earth to the constellation
Aries.  Therefore you are a dream and nothing more."   "Hey man," he said,
"why aren't my whites whiter?  Why aren't my brights brighter?  I bought the
special soap in the small box with the handle, and now I'm frustrated."
"Fnord!" I replied, and I rolled over and went back to sleep.

Message: 69461
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cola Extract
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 05:51:23

Cola extract is not Coke syrup.  Cola extract is not coca extract, and
neither is Coke syrup.  Coke syrup uses both cola extract (extract from the
African kola nut) and coca extract (from spent coca leaves) in its syrup,
along with other stuff. The Cola extract was no doubt sweet because they
added a lot of sugar to it to make it palatable.  Cola extract is very
bitter.  Coke contains only trace amounts of cola and coca extracts; not
enough to add any flavor or stimulation.  The old syrup (pre-1903) contained
perhaps 2.6 milligrams of cocaine per ounce.  If a line of uncut cocaine
contains 50 milligrams, then you would have had to consume about 20 ounces
of pure syrup in those days to get the equivalent dose of cocaine.  These
days, if the syrup contains 2% of that amount of cocaine, one ounce of syrup
contains .052 milligrams of cocaine.  You would today, then, need to consume
961.5 ounces of pure syrup to get a dose of cocaine equivalent to a 50 mg
line of pure cocaine. Coca-Cola, however, is not pure syrup. I do not know
the proportion of syrup to water that you get in a can of Coke or a cup at
the fountain, but even if it was a 50-50 mixture, you would need to drink
1923 ounces of Coke, or about 43 fourty-four ounce Super-Big Gulps filled to
the lid with no ice, in order to get the equivalent dose of a 50 mg line of
pure cocaine. Actually, however, there is not nearly this much cocaine in
Coca-Cola.  The syrup does not contain 2% of the amount of cocaine that the
old syrup had, nor does it contain 2% cocaine (if an ounce of syrup was 2%
cocaine, it would contain 1/50th of an ounce of cocaine, which it certainly
does not.) No, the coca extract may contain 2% cocaine, but since only a
trace amount of extract is used, the amount of cocaine in the syrup is nil.

Message: 69462
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 06:38:53

Calm down fellow - I simply meant that our souls are God - not that we are
God per se. The souls also have free will! I am not the first person to
believe we are gods in that vain. 
I still think it's a sort of cop out to say "but although it is our goal to
live Christlike lives, we are never going to succeed in living a life
exactly like Christ's"! I think we can be just like Him in every way and
that was His purpose to show us that! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 69463
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl again
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 06:44:51

Your - "When Christ died, it was to take our sins away from us, something we
could not do on our own"! So this statement means that all people before
Christ died went to hell??? I also believe that we do take our sins away all
on our own if we so wish. The old addage - "God helps them that help
themselves" is a good one. 
Didn't Jesus speak of obeying the laws (10 commandments) and added one of
His own? I thought it was quite clear we are to obey them??!! The Jews are
still obeying them and do not believe in Jesus as a Savior - are they doomed
to hell? -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 69464
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger #69436
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 06:46:11

Good questions - statements there Roger. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 69465
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on voting
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 06:53:55

Your "Being a Libertarian is a WASTE of time as I found out"! 
You don't think you wasted your time voting for those dudes - any of them?
Just the same old stuff will be ruling us - nothing new and exciting. And
yes, I voted in case you think I didn't. But I only put a vote where I
wanted it - did not vote for the lessor of two evils!!!
The Repulsive really cut Mecham down for losing in this morning's paper and
I had to laugh because Mecham did get a big proportion of the votes - way
above the other's. He was at least second, but the paper was treating him
like the worse loser of all time! I know Whitey voted for him even though he
wasn't on the ticket - W. is a registered Democrat. He just voted for the
one that was sure to lose. Ah - what strange games we play!! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 69466
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/riddle
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 06:58:11

Well, if the pound of feathers is on an ostrich, then it would weigh more
than the gold. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 69467
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger / God
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:16:32

Roger: "In fact, my good fellow, where does it say in the Bible (although
the Bible is no authority in this matter) that God is infinitely greater
than we are?"
 
Simple. As I'm running out the door to make the bus, I can give you one off
the top of my head. Try Job chapters 38-40.2 and 40.6-14. And while we're at
it, how do you conclude that the Bible is no authority in this discussion?
If I'm not mistaken, we were discussing God of the Bible. How do you plot to
come to a conclusion if you're going to toss out the evidence?

Message: 69468
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger / Christlike
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:22:25

Roger: "What a copout. If you don't like one aspect of Christ's life..."
 
Roger, you're not even trying to read to understand, my words. Your
prejudice is blinding you. We can live a life like Christ, but we cannot BE
Christ. That is the aspect of Christ's life that we cannot duplicate. I
never said anywhere that we should pick and choose Christ's attributes, that
was your own conclusion based upon your own bias. Roger, if you wish to
delude yourself into expecting Christians to become the Son of God
themselves, then you're fooling yourself.

Message: 69469
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff / Revco & Coke
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:23:43

No, Jeff, I have actually seen the product on the shelf with my very own
eyes. Give Revco a call (it's been a while, is Revco still in business?) and
ask them yourself. If not Revco, then try Super X or any of the other drug
stores.

Message: 69470
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Joke
Subject: Jeff / Dr. P
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:25:29

Re: 23 ingredients to create the inimitable taste of Dr. Pepper.
 
They could have saved a lot of time and hassle and just used prunes for the
same taste-effect.

Message: 69471
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod / Bible
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:29:23

If I insinuated that 'everything we need to know [is] all in the [H]oly
[B]ible,' then forgive me. Everything that we need to know ABOUT GOD is in
the Bible. (Although if you were GOING to toss out your collection, the best
book you could retain would be the Bible.)

Message: 69472
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff / Riddle
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:31:01

Depends, what measure are you using to weigh the gold?

Message: 69473
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff / Coca-Cola
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:32:34

The bottle I saw was "coca-cola syrup" (lower case denoting that they were
not using the CC trademark).

Message: 69474
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:34:05

I decided to take the time to download your message and reply to it at
greater length. It follows. I'll reply to your last message later this
evening. As for my level of coolness - I'm cool as a cucumber.

Message: 69476
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:36:12

Ann: "I believe we are God also - as much as Christ was and that we can
      preform miracles including walking on water if we had the faith -
      perhaps the faith in God or faith in general."
 
Ann, what you are suggesting is nothing new. Satan Himself used the same
deception in causing Adam and Eve to sin [Ge 3.1-7, especially v. 5]. You
claim that we are all 'god.' So how can you, at the same time say we need to
have faith IN God? Faith comes from God. If, as you claim, we are 'god,'
And yet we do not have this faith, then we will never have it and are thus
pretty pathetic and useless 'gods.'
 
Ann: "I belive that what we call our soul is part of God. I BELIEVE
      what Jesus said in the Bible that we can do what He can do/has done!"
 
"The coming of this rebellious one is the work of Satan, who uses all
 types of misleading miracles, miraculous signs, and wonderful proofs,
 and every kind of wrongdoing which decieves those who are perishing,
 because they refused to love the truth and be saved." [2Th 2.9-10, NET]
Ann, we must be careful to discern by whose power we can do such things.
They can not be done of our own power, but only because of Yahweh God
working through us, and not because we decieve ourselves into thinking
that it is because we are 'god.'

Ann: "I beleive that He is our example and we are to pattern our life
      after Him and what he taught and if we do, then we will be sinless
      just like He was."
 
But Ann, the Law that Christ fulfilled [for us] has existed long before
Christ ever came along, and yet it never saved anyone. It is only due to
the merits of Christ that those who believe in Him are sinless and
acceptable
in God's sight. "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those
who are under the Law, so that every mouth may become silent and the whole
world may stand guilty before God. Therefore, not ONE PERSON will be
justified [declared righteous] before god by doing what the Law says,
because
the Law teaches us to recognize sin." [Ro 3.19-20, NET]
 
Ann: "There is no so called temptation that He went through and over came
      that we couldn't do the same."
 
Yes, but only through faith in Christ can we overcome. And even when we do
stumble in our walk, He is always there to help us when we fall. He tells
us as he told Paul, "My grace is enough for you. For My power is at its
best when you are weak." [2Co 12.9, NET]

Ann: "I always felt it a big fat cop out to say 'oh well, I'm only human,
      therefore I will sin, but through Christ I am saved' etc. etc."
 
Ann, you are misunderstanding the Christian life altogether. Freedom in
Christ is not a license to sin. "Therefore what shall we say? Shall we say,
'Let's go on sinning so that God may be more gracious to us?' Certainly not!
We died to sin. How can we [then] live in it any longer?" [Ro 6.1-2, NET]
 
Ann: "The Ten Commandments and the one that Jesus added are rules for us
      to follow. Whether one is a Christian, Agnostic or Athiest, if they
     are followed, the world is a better place."
 
How can an atheist follow the Ten Commandments? For the Ten Commandments
say,
"You shall have no other gods before me," "You shall not make for yourself
an idol in the form of anything... You shall not bow down to them or worship
to them," "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God..." How can
an atheist live by these Commandments? Or an agnostic for that matter?

Ann: "In fact, the one Jesus added is the only one we need because all the
      others will fall into place if that one is followed."
 
Christ did not add a Commandment, He merely summed up the Commandments in
three sentences [Mk 12.29-31]. The first sentence was "Listen, Israel, the
Lord our God, the Lord is One." By this we can see that only God is God,
and since there can be only one God, then we are not 'god.' Again, the
atheist or agnostic is not going to agree to this, which Christ describes as
"most important" [v. 29]. Neither will he follow the next one, which is
"Then
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all
your
mind, and with all your strength" [v.30]. And if these two are disregarded,
then the third one, "Love your neighbor as yourself," simply won't happen.
 
Ann: "I also believe that it is important we do see the human side of Him.
      Religions seem to dwell only on the God part and ignore the other
side."
 
Christ was not always human. But He has always been God.

Ann: "You will have to admit that if He didn't have that human side, then
      His reason for being here would be worthless. He lived on this earth
      approx. 33 years and He must have had human thoughts and feelings
      along the way."
 
Of course He did. 
 
Ann: "They don't have to be categorized as sinful you know - maybe He was
      able to over come them on the spot before they turned to a so called
      sin?!"
 
It's not a matter of "maybe..." - it's a fact. "He never sinned nor was
found
to be deceitful when He spoke" [1Pe 2.22]. "For we do not have a High Priest
who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. He was tempted in every way
just as we are - [yet He remained] without sin" [Hb 4.15].

Ann: "I don't profes to know but I have thought about it often as I think
      the writer of T.L.T.O.C. did. It is easy to read the Bible and see
      the God Jesus - but not the human Jesus. We must fill in the best we
can." 
 
It is easy to read the Bible and see the man Jesus as well as the Son of God
[Mk 14.34-36, Jn 11.33-39, 12.27, 19.30 are but just a few]. As for filling
in, I'm sorry, Ann, but "filling in" what you feel is missing from Scripture
is only going to draw you further away from the Living God of the Bible.
If you wish to follow Jesus, you need to rely on what God has revealed to us
in Scripture, for there is no other means for which we can come to know Him.
You have to either believe Christ or reject Him. Riding the fence offends
God,
and He would rather you reject Him completely than accept Him 'lukewarmly'
[Rv 3.15-16 (the Greek word translated as 'spit' in most English versions of
the Bible is literally 'vomit,' which shows the severity of being "neither
cold nor hot" [v. 15])].
 
Sorry about the one-word lines. Apparently I misjudged the word wrap in
composing those files. Will reply to the others later.

Message: 69482
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: jeff/abstraction
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:48:06

I had a wonderful thought yesterday, but I forgot it after attending a
class in abstract syntax notation. There are levels of abstraction also. I
remember the thought now. In order to talk about anything, we need a
meta-language to discuss it. The pile of bricks we call a set, is still a
pile of bricks whether or not we are able to abstract the meaning of a pile
of bricks. However, it is a human activity to talk about the pile of bricks.
So, we invent abstractions to be able to talk about the pile of bricks (how
many, how large, etc.) Then we engage in another discussion about the
abstractions we are inventing to talk about a pile of bricks, etc.

Message: 69483
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Politics
Subject: Steiger
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:50:46

I was really disappointed in Steiger in this primary. His television ad was
extremely poor as it showed him to be a buffoon near the end of the ad. I
think the people of Arizona want a serious governor, not a clown. And
although I admire Steiger for his independence and libertarian tendencies,
he is just not serious enough for a governorship. Koory did better than I
thought he would. Mecham is dead.

Message: 69484
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: daryl/authority
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 07:59:04

My knowledge of Bible history, esp. from my readings of Tillich indicate
that the NT is not even close to be a first-hand representation of JC. The
most authoritative religious books are those written by Paul. The rest is
history written to support one point of view or another. 

Message: 69485
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: daryl/christlike
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 08:00:38

that is not what i understood you to say. My understanding was that you
could not life your life as Christ lived his. I didn't say anything about
being Christ. That's Mike Middleton's point, not mine.

Message: 69486
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: cliff/noisy lines
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 12:26:13

Sometimes when I call I get a noisy line. I usually hang up and try again.
The weird thing is that I always get a non-noisy line the second time. Do
you have any idea why this should be, or am I just extraordinarily lucky ?

Message: 69487
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Noisy Lines
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 13:28:43

        Don't feel alone Roger....  I also get a noisy line at times and it
always seems better the second time around.  All calls seem to go though a
switching station, and if you get a noisy switch..... Bzzzzzzz, try again.
        There are other users who over the years have had (or have) this
problem.   After we have rain, I generally get the most feedback on this for
about two weeks after.   Noise sometimes can generate an  for abort or
even worse, a  for goodbye.....   All we can do is hope they will someday
fix the lines.  
        They are doing a lot of digging on Bell Road... sometimes we even
LOSE the line for a bit.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 69488
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeff
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 15:06:02

Gee, I thought a pound was a pound.
I must be stUPid.

Message: 69489
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: Noisy Lines!
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 15:09:39

Yes, it seems that way. I was wondering if your line had special
conditioning. In other words, do you pay more for your computer line than
for your regular phone line ?

Message: 69490
Author: $ Ralph Blehm
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: God
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 17:00:54

I must be God because when I would go to Cliff's store he would say 
God are you here again.

Message: 69491
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: NEA
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 19:45:16

        I haven't been around for a couple of days, so maybe this has
already been hashed around enough, but I'll ask anyway: does anyone have a
good supporting argument for the money spent by the National Endowment for
the Arts to buy the chocolate for the nude dancer who smears it on her bod
to "express her art"?  Question 2: when is she going on tour so we can see
some of our national artists here in Phoenix?
        Also, did anyone ever argue the environmentalist point on not
killing dolphins?
        And now that we're spending a billion per month to keep the troops
in Saudi Arabia, do you think maybe we should build a few more nuclear
plants? France gets 70% of its energy from nuclear. What say? --John C--

Message: 69492
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger / Tillich
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:15:19

    And what extra-Biblical data are you using as a yardstick to determine
what is or what is an accurate representation of Jesus?
    You can have Tillich. I'll stick with Luther. "The Holy Scripture is
God's Word, written and, so to speak, lettered and put into the form of
letters (gebuchstabet und in Buchstaben gebildet), just as Christ, the
eternal Word of God, is clothed in humanity. And men regard and treat the
written Word of God in this world just as they do Christ. It is a worm and
no book compared with other books; for the honor people accord other
writings of men by studying, reading, pondering, keeping and using them they
do not accord Scripture. If it is treated well, it lies there in neglect.
Others tear it to pieces, scourge and crucify it, ad subject it to all
manner of torture until they stretch it sufficiently to apply to their
heresy, meaning, and whim... It is a good sign, therefore, if a man has the
precious gift of loving and liking Scripture, of gladly reading it, of
highly esteeming and treasuring it,. Such a man God, in turn, will surely
honor, because he possesses the true seal of the called and chosen saints,
and he belongs among the apostles and the other saints."

Message: 69493
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger / Christlike
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:18:36

    Well, let's look at it this way: Christ lived a perfectly sinless life
and fulfilled the Law to the letter. That is how Christ lived His life on
earth every day of His life. Can we match that?
    Or can we TRY to live our lives as Christ did, while at the same time
recognizing our own human condition when we stumble and fail to miss the
mark, and trusting in God to see our penitent heart and forgive us so that
we can move on?

Message: 69494
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ralph / 69490
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:20:06

And I must have been the Lord as a child, because whenever I did something
wrong, my dad would always say, "Jesus Christ, what have you done now?"

Message: 69495
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Speaking of Luther
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:23:03

I'm currently delving into "The Bondage of the Will." Has anyone here read
it?

Message: 69497
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Question?
Subject: Daryl/syrup
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:54:12

I think you are mistaken.  How could they sell Coca-Cola syrup as coca-cola
syrup, if it was the same substance, without violating Coke's legal rights? 
You can't get around trademark laws by selling Coca-Cola as "coca-cola." 
And if it was the same substance, why bother using lower case?

Message: 69498
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/meta-language
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 20:59:55

"The pile of bricks is still a pile of bricks whether or not we are able to
abstract the meaning of a pile of bricks."
 
Doesn't that beg the question?  The words "pile" and "bricks" are themselves
definitions of abstract concepts.  If we didn't have the words, we would
still sensibly perceive various objects, but the objects themselves are not
"piles" or "bricks" until we define the concepts.  This is a problem which
transcends the words and deals with the meanings of the words.  That is, the
problem remains whether we use the word English word "pile" or any foreign
equivalent.

Message: 69499
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: riddle answer
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:08:44

When gold and feathers are measured using pounds rather than metric units,
gold is measured by troy pounds (12 ounces) and feathers by avoirdupois
pounds (16 ounces).
 
Here's another riddle: If I were in Alaska at a longitude above Prince of
Wales island (midway between the lower U.S. and Alaska off the west coast
of Canada), to which compass direction would my compass point?

Message: 69500
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: understanding nature
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:09:57

It is enough for me that Einstein's or Newton's equations represent,
classify and order observable phenomena and as a consequence we are prepared
to make predictive generalizations which can be tested empirically.  It is
enough for me that Euclidean or Riemannian geometry can be adapted usefully
to certain circumstances.  All of this metaphysical squabbling over the
nature of gravity and space seems as useless and counterproductive as
the arguments of medieval theologians as to how many angels could fit on
the head of a pin.  It is a waste of time and energy to burden physical
theories with the onus of *explanation*.  The duty of physical hypotheses
is to predict consequences conforming to experimental evidence.  The history
of physics shows that the descriptive part of physical theories develops
by the proper and autonomous Fnord! methods of observation, induction, and
experiment; the explanatory part has come along and attached itself to
this like a parasite.  What will be lasting and fruitful in the work of
these men is not their interpretations of their descriptive work, but that
descriptive work itself.  In a thousand years the assumptions attached to
them concerning the realities hiding underneath sensible appearances will
be as quaint and outmoded as Fnord! the ancient's concepts of the celestial 
spheres and the entities which propelled them are today.  The irony lies in 
the arrogance of the successive generations; they willingly accept the 
empirical work of their predecessors while simultaneously pooh-poohing their
explanations, but see their own explanations as ontologically correct, or at
least somewhat closer to the truth.

Message: 69501
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: JB
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:26:49

North

Message: 69502
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: War!
Subject: CLIFF!
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:28:18

Ok.  Why is it that my Spanish dictionary disapeared around the same time as
I was allowed on the Twilight Zone Sig?  Bring it back on so that I can do
my homework!

Message: 69503
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger on BBS line
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:38:57

        I pay a LOT more for the BBS line then I do for the house line.
The reason mainly is the BBS line is a Zone 'A' number so people all over
the Valley can call it free.   However....no matter how clean my line tests
from the station, if you call that station from a noisy line or via a bad
switching station... all is lost!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 69504
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Question?
Subject: Dee on Spanish dic
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:44:01

        I have not the foggiest idea as to what happened to you Spanish
dictionary?   What Twilight Zone Sig?  Do you mean the Phantom Zone?

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 69505
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Vote
Subject: Governor?
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 21:52:33

        Shortly I think I will hold a ote on the Democrat verses the
Republican candidate for Governor of Arizona.  It's hard to get excited (at
least for me) over the choice we have.  I KNOW I dislike Goddard, and I am
not too keen on that Republican (Symington sp?) fellow.   This is his first
time for public office.. he either will be real good...or real bad.  If
anyone has any solid info on this person... PLEASE post it as I am
interested.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 69506
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/Bayer
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 23:34:33

Then perhaps they should raise their prices even higher in order to get rid
of more competition.

Say, doesn't Bayer own those other companies also?

What corporation owns Bayer?  Who are we owned by these days?

Message: 69507
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/bible
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 23:42:24

I did it the other way, I kept the library and tossed the bible.  Well
that's not quite true, I did add some of my own drawings and passages here
and there.  Now it's a fun bible but I even changed the name.  Now it's:

                THE WHOLLY BABEL

It even looks better now.

Sorry, but I can't reveal the other specific changes because this post would
be zapped and for good reason.
                                        Rod

Message: 69508
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/Kola
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 23:43:52

Thanks for the interesting and informative posts.  I could only handle 12
Big Gulps and now I feel quite sick.  Perhaps if I injected it, hmmmm.

Message: 69509
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Satan/God
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 23:47:19

Satan thought He was God, eh?  What did God do, spank his little fanny or
put Him in His room for the afternoon?

Just curious but I guess the bible doesn't explain that because it must be
one of the things that we don't need to know.  It's good that the bible is a
"need to know" book.  I have one entitled, "How Things Work".  Perhaps we
could get together and combine the two and come out with one hell of a book.

Message: 69510
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/Compass
Date: 09/12/90  Time: 23:53:51

I figured out the first riddle but Daryl asked the question first.

Wouldn't the compass be pointing north although magnetic north would be
south of you?

Message: 69511
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John/Dolphins
Date: 09/13/90  Time: 00:01:18

We should use Bob's Dolphin Spray in all of the oceans of the world. 
That'll get rid of those little pests.  And while we're at it I think that
we should take all of the remaining big game and charge a buck a shot.  You
know, like a shooting gallery.  

But, you know, we could eliminate all of the above but we'll never get rid
of the cockroach.  At least not as long as there is a purpose of sorts that
they seems good at.

We have some lovely devices that will get rid of humans.  I would think that
keeping the nuclear devices out of the hands of third world countries would
be next to impossible in the coming 20-30 years.  Perhaps then.