Apollo BBS Archive - September 1989

Apollo BBS Archive - September 12, 1989

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 5886
Author: $ Ralph Blehm
Category: Believe it or not!
Subject: All the above
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 05:40:26

Go for it!!!!!!!!!!

Message: 5887
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:10:56

I'm not sure.

Message: 5888
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: QMI/Slick-50
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:37:29

Are these the same thing?  The syndicated car show on KFYI (by some guy
out of Florida) pushes this stuff (or maybe the gas treatment) all of the
time.  This guy does a lot of racing, I understand.

Message: 5889
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:37:40

oops

Message: 5890
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Last
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 20:09:58

I really don't know if they are the same thing or not.  In the ad it says
that it uses PTFE resins to provide a one or two micron coating over the
surfaces of the piston and other parts of the engine.  Therefore reducing
friction, heat, etc.  These PTFE resins are supposed to be the 'slipperiest
substance known to man'.  Who knows.

Message: 5891
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Question?
Subject: last/slippery
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:37:37

Even slippier than snot on a doorknob?

Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 2468
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Cliff/bowing
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 09:07:48

I will not be U.L.ing many more. Just got to stop all this art stuff and get
busy with the housework. That will take all the ego out of my trip! Ha.
BTW - I do think it will bring in other members that have VGA setups - I
just joined JCCS BBS and U.L.ed the ocelot and got several responses.
They ask where there could see more of my drawings and I of course said
Apollo and they planned to come on over and see for themselves. As I said -
VGA pix are hard to come by. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 2469
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann on strike?
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 11:05:28

        Well, there is always the PHAntom ZONE for striking artists.

I really do not expect you to U.L. every day.....  Not even every week....

The ones you have U.L.ed are just fantastic...  And thanks!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 2470
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann...
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:41:32

You're cruel... those people will probably get upset because they'll have to
pay for $tatus in order to D/L your other drawings.

Message: 2471
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last...
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:52:39

        Thanks Beauregard....  Talk about being cruel... sniff, sob,
whimper.   Just maybe we could get a nice VGA club going over here at
Apollo.  We sure could use a few more users to bolster the board a bit.  
I have lots of room for lots of SIGs and users.  I have pleanty of room for
GOOD VGA art... not the crap stuff.  Ann's falls in the VERY good category
from what I have seen.  If I was that interested in fine art, the Apollo fee
would not stop me in the least.

Gee, nice to know who your friends are... Are it not?  

Brokenhearted sysopie

Apollo Underground Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 401
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: SYSOP Speaks
Subject: The Plaque
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 14:51:25

        Is done and mounted...  It looks very nice...  So nice I want to
keep it.. ha ha ha... No, I will give it when the time comes.  I gather the
users involved wish to give it at his wedding time in November...????
        
        There are a FEW users who have not signed the card... PLEASE make a
point to get this done soon....  If you don't wish to sign the card...let me
know that too.

        Yes, we checked the spelling Guys!  "We" means Sandy and I.

Whats next?

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 402
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Next
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:12:25

Well, I could get married just so I would get a plaque (or some drugs)

Message: 403
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 18:14:19

        I didn't even get a Plaque...and I am the "Mighty" SysOp!

                        Stop laughing.... now!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 404
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Plagues
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:42:28

We didn't give anything to Traci... the bubonic one is quite nice this year.

Message: 405
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: SYSOP Speaks
Subject: Traci
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 20:01:02

        But I did give something to dear Traci.....  It will be from APollo
as well, since I am Mr Apollo *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

        The Gift to Chris was also...for ALL his wonderful help in the
development of Apollo.  Without Chris, Apollo would not be what it is. 
The friends we have made might not have been made.  I think the small gift
to Chris is well worth the friends we have made over the years...do you not
agree?   Speaking for myself... Friends are more importaint than dollars.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*  <--- That's me!

Message: 406
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Friends
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:40:15

Give me dollars every time.  With dollars one can buy friends but with
friends one cannot buy dollars.

Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 60926
Author: Jack Splat
Category: Question?
Subject: Bob Thornburg
Date: 09/11/89  Time: 23:05:38

RE: "There are a lot of wicked women who claim to be blonds..."
 
Where?

Message: 60927
Author: Jack Splat
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff's pets
Date: 09/11/89  Time: 23:17:28

You don't see humor in your fish or birds?  That is because you are not a
fish or a bird.  Their humor is quite different from ours.  Well, actually,
it is similar, but you just can't tell when birds and fish are telling
jokes, since they don't roll around grabbing their little fins and feathers,
making "ho ho ho" sounds.
 
Most fish jokes revolve around the way humans look when they are gawking at
fish in a tank.  Apparently, there is just something about our eyes that
cracks them up.  Pond and stream fish, on the other hand, have a sort of
gallows humor, most of it involving double entendre about fish lures and
fish in heat.
 
Birds, on the other hand, tend to be scatalogical.  There's this one joke
about a guy who has driven his shiny new car down to the park, to feed the
pigeons.  He happens to park under the power lines.  So, after he sits down
and starts to feed the pigeons, some tough looking birds fly over and sit on
the power lines above the guy's car.  After watching the guy for a few
minutes, one of the birds saunters over to the guy.  "Hey man," he squawks
in a menacing tone, looking over his wing in a meaningful way at his posse
on the line, "have you got five bucks?"
 
What, you've heard that one?  

Message: 60928
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Question?
Subject: TRACI MARRIED ??!?!?
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 02:07:59

SAY WHAT?!?!?

Message: 60929
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Last 100
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 02:10:48

 
Only God has the patience. I don't.
 
Speaking of patience...have you signed the recall ballot for
the recall of $enator McCain yet?
I don't know about you, but I don't like a politician who can be
bought by a land developer and brush it off as heresay.
 
Not to mention raping constitutional rights to keep and bear arms.

Message: 60930
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Slick-50
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 04:54:08

As you know, Slick-50 is supposed to deposit a layer of Teflon on the inner
surfaces of your engine, thereby reducing friction. I have read some
independent tests of the product, and the labs were able to confirm its
effects. It may be that the effect is not permanent, however.

Manufacturers may soon begin using a dry coating applied to internal engine
parts. The benefits in reducing friction and wear are well documented, but
the process is expensive at this time. Lorn Technical Coatings in Phoenix
specializes in such coatings.

Message: 60931
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 05:20:56

"ALL our politicians are Christian" Ann Oudin 9/11/89
I'm sure that Bert Kruglik would be interested to know that.

Message: 60932
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Cliff
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 05:23:43

Does God understand humor?
 I think that God has a marvellous sense of humor. Look at the long necked
giraffe, the duck billed platypus, the hippo, you, me, Ann, Rod and a few
others if you don't think so! (smile)

Message: 60933
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 07:57:16

Congratulations!  Your Salt River Project electric rates will go up next
month (and then again in May), partly due to Arizona Public Service's
inability to keep Palo Verde on line.  See?  You're not immune to Pinnacle
West after all!

Message: 60934
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Religion
Subject: Bob/the Bible
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 08:42:43

I have read the teaching of Christ in the Bible - they are clear and easy to
understand. What I don't understand is 'stretching them' and then saying one
is forgiven! Isn't a Christian supposed to do all they can to obey those
teachings? Seems to me that forgiveness isn't the only thing they were
written for. Getting along in this world is part of it too. Treating your
fellow man as you want to be treated etc. What's the matter with trying to
be 'perfect'? Of course one would fail - but the trying is what's important.
                           -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 60935
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/riches
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 08:51:23

Simple Clarification: I believe churches should pay taxes - they should not
buy apartment houses or costly retreats in the mountains for their own use -
that is unless they pay taxes. I also believe that the churches should not
provide ministers with their own houses free and clear. Perhaps a modest
rectory on the primises is all. 
The 'evil' person that lived like a king that I talked about is a minister
of a church and he is not evil! Just lives high off the donations.
Clarification: I am a 'fake' evil blond! My hairdresser, my husband & family
and my friends know this! Ha. Always have been - always will. I also have
three 'fake' teeth too. However - other things are real! Heh heh heh.
                           -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 60936
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/60921
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 08:56:20

You said a mouthful there and so true. I am also not lumping all Christians
together - but I certainly do not understand this. The Baptist don't like
the Lutherans - the Catholics don't like the Methodists - no one likes the
Mormons etc. I could be wrong, but don't they worship the same God?
                       -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 60937
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on Bert
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 08:59:20

Pardon me - but who the heck is Bert Kruglik? I assume he is an athiest eh?
                            -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 60938
Author: Alan Faber
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Slick-50
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 09:35:32

This is purely an intuitive judgement, but for some reason, the
manufacturer's explaination of Slick-50's workings reminds me of the
double-bladed razor ads.  Anyone who is sappy enough to believe that one
razor sharp blade pulls while the other one cuts, deserves to pay for that
extra blade (that is, the excessive cost of this "superior" product.)
Furthermore, if Teflon is such a fine lubricant, how is it that it can be
"deposited" (i.e. stick to selective engine parts without any special
process of application).

Message: 60939
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Answer!
Subject: The TRUTH
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 10:29:10

        I think you Christians just aren't getting this.  You say that if
people disagree about what the Bible says, go look in the Bible and see what
it "really" says.  That be fine, if two people could look at the same verse
and agree with each other on what it means.  Fact is, that doesn't happen.
        For example, the KKK will tell you that black skin was the mark
placed on Cain, so all those with black skin are cursed.  If you press them
on the matter, they will ferverently insist that that's what the Bible
really says.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 60940
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: M.James on Paul
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 11:17:41

        I was going to tell Paul, But I did not feel like popping his bubble
at the time.  Salt River Project customers are going to see a MUCH larger
jump than APS customers are going to see.  Why, because they are not a stock
holding type business and the only people to absorb the TAX cost by Mofford
is the customer.  Pauls attitude that it did not effect him, so he couldn't
care less made me break into a big laugh...as the report I read said
something like SRP customers will get it 1 to 2 times as hard as APS.
        I on the other hand did care and wrote a letter to the authorities,
while Paul whistled a merry tune and went on his merry way...

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 60941
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thornburg
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:02:06

You idiot, Nazism is an abbreviation for National Socialism.

Message: 60942
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Oudin
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:05:32

You dolt, there are many non-Christian politicians.  What about Senators Joe
Lieberman, Carl Levin, Rudy Boschwitz, Max Baucus, Warren Rudman, Frank
Lautenberg, Howard Metzenbaum, Arlen Specter, John Chaffee, and Herb Kohl?

Message: 60943
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:44:38

Re:  "Yes, I too have noticed that a Christian can and will do absolutely
anything and then justify the act with their Bible."

I too have noticed that a non-christian can and will do absolutely anything
and then justify the act with their non-bible.

Message: 60944
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:45:58

Re:  "You do read logic, don't you?"

Logic?  Is that some kind of computer language?

Message: 60945
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jack Splash
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:47:38

RE: "There are a lot of wicked women who claim to be blonds..."
 
Where?

Ha!  Ha!  There might be one on this board!

Message: 60946
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:51:01

Re:  "have you signed the recall ballot for the recall of $enator McCain
yet?"

I didn't know one existed!  Are you sure you're not talking about Dennis.
He's the one who is into land development.  Made quite a bundle I hear at
tax payers expense.

Message: 60947
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:55:47

Re:  "Isn't a Christian supposed to do all they can to obey those
teachings? Seems to me that forgiveness isn't the only thing they were
written for."

It seems to me that the problem you're talking about is not with God or the
Bible.  The problem is with sinful man.  Like I said before, people will
never make the level of perfection with or without God's help.
For examples I will present Rod and Me.  Rod without God's help and me with
God's help.  Why of course, we both try to be perfect, don't we Rod?
Uh, Rod, don't we Rod?  Rod?

Message: 60948
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 16:57:35

Re:  "I am a 'fake' evil blond!"

I promise to tell NO one Ann!  Even if they torture me!

Message: 60949
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:01:18

Re:  "I certainly do not understand this. The Baptist don't like
the Lutherans - the Catholics don't like the Methodists - no one likes the
Mormons"

Hey, I'm a Christian and I like everyone.  I even like Rod!
I probably couldn't really say I like Hitler.  Ok, I don't like Hitler. 
There are probably a few other I don't like too.  
Actually I probably dislike most of the same people you dislike Ann.

Message: 60950
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Alan
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:03:15

Re:  "Anyone who is sappy enough to believe that one
razor sharp blade pulls while the other one cuts, deserves to pay for that
extra blade "

All I know is that it shaves me a lot better than the single blade.  Whether
one pulls and the other cuts, I do not know.

Message: 60951
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:06:00

Re:  "You idiot"

I wish you would not call me names.  You make me feel bad.  I don't call you
names.  I might punch you out though!  How tall are you?

Message: 60952
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Slick 50
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:16:11

I don't use it.  But I do have a carport in the shape of a pyramid.

Message: 60953
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/Pinto
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:17:06

I read your posts with interest.  From that information, the Pinto is no
more dangerous than any other compact auto and perhaps safer than many.

Good work.

Message: 60954
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:17:30

Yeah!

Message: 60955
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Alan/Bible
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:18:39

You said it VERY well.  Good post.

Message: 60956
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:22:51

Do you suppose I feel crummy and am not doing well in life because I am not
asking for the support of the Lord?  Huh?

Message: 60957
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Question?
Subject: Bob
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 17:24:21

Dear Bob,

In your humble opinion would you say that God loves Satan.  I really need an
answer to this.  

Patiently awaiting your reply, I remain,

                                So sincerely,
                                Rod Williams

Message: 60958
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT on Bob
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 18:27:46

Re:  "You idiot"

        Well, that is JT...  It means he likes Bob!     Seriously JT, are
you trying to lose credibility as an open minded journalist and an educator
of the people.  The pen and free press are your tools...  Use them well or
not at all.
        And use then in good health...  Punched in the nose by Bob won't
help.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 60959
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Poor Mike C...
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:36:04

Congratulations and Good Luck, Traci and Ron!

Message: 60960
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Question?
Subject: QMI/Slick-50
Date: 09/12/89  Time: 19:38:38

Are these the same thing?  The syndicated car show on KFYI (by some guy
out of Florida) pushes this stuff (or maybe the gas treatment) all of the
time.  I understand that he is also involved in racing (and restoring).

Message: 60961
Author: Steven Bishop
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 60953
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 00:37:45

Yeah, the Pinto is widely recognised as a safe design.  If I buy you one,
will you promise to drive it?

Message: 60962
Author: Steven Bishop
Category: Question?
Subject: economics
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 00:40:53

What would happen if private lotteries and raffles were legalised?

Message: 60963
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Steven/Pinto
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:43:04

Sure, buy me one and I will drive it to the nearest "Cash for Cars"
establishment.  Give me a Vega everytime, dude!

Message: 60964
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Private Lotteries
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:44:24

If private lotteries were legalized then idiots would be poorer than they
are now.  

Message: 60965
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bob/JT tall
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:48:02

I would say that JT was around 6'3 or 4' and weighs in the neighborhood of
245-260 pounds, depending on how recently he's been to the bathroom.

He smokes big black cigars, usually has a drink in his hand, and burps a
lot.

His physical appearance is nice except for the full length scar on his face
going from his right ear to the nape of his neck on the left side.  He is
not at all fat and looks much like a line backer for Green Bay.  No hanging
fat there.

Hope this helps in all your future decisions.

The same,  -Rod

To send mail to operator use 
First name:DEAN
Last name:HATHAWAY
Send mail to Dean Hathaway:Yes

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:Well, as you can see I mentioned your message on 'morals' to Bob and he 
 2:completely ignored it.  Logic is like light.  Plant a piece of logic in 
 3:someone's gulliver and it acts like a screw.  Screws itself right into the 
 4:brain and one day explodes.  -Rod

Message: 60966
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Steve / Lotteries
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:56:19

...then there would be privately held lotteries and raffles.

Message: 60967
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: OOOOOPPPPSS!
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 01:59:09

PUBLIC APOLOGY: 
 
Senator McCain isn't the object of a recall....
 
It's Dennis DeConcini...
 
 
Just goes to show you I should stop staying up so late.

Message: 60968
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann on Religion
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 02:19:55

Well said.
I personally don't think the message in the statement;
"Christians aren't perfect..just forgiven"
is beneficial at all.
WHat you said about trying to follow Christs examples is 100% true.
Jesus died to pay for mankinds sin. To sin and think it's already forgiven
anyway is to tarnish his gift and spit in his face.
Christians are people like you and Rod. The only possible difference
is physical appearances, psyche, behaviour and one important and often
misunderstood item: They have accepted Christs gift and by so he lives
within them. No other differences.
With Christs message and his spirit, people are armed against sin
and blessed with his love and protection. 
Wether or not the Christian uses these "armanents" to avoid sin
is still a choice he/she makes daily. They're not better, not perfect
and certainly not idols to be worshipped on T.V. 
Free will is never taken away. This means Christians can,will and do
commit crimes, sin and anything else you want to add.
BUt to be judgemental of anyone, using race, religion or creed against
them in words intended to inflict and label their (religion race whatever)
as wrong, stupid, bad, dangerous (add your own adjectives here)...
is the epitome of mankinds folly and ignorance.
Poor families call rich families pigs, Rich families call poor families
pigs. The Anti-religious are just as feverent as the Pro-Religious.

Message: 60969
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod W.
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 02:38:34

In my humble opinion I think God does love Satan. HE also no doubt
hates the things he does and despises his efforts.
God loves all of his creation. This doesn't mean we can attach
humanistic values to what God does or doesn't do.
As a Christian I can barely begin to fathom a grain of his creation,
let alone try to second guess his "opinions" on what we as humans
would see as a conflict or misconception.
Satan was created by God. Satan was Gods "favorite" angel. God didn't
create the sin, Satan went against Gods will and disobeyed or whatever.
Gods creations were given free will. The only way you can GIVE
something is not by force..but by your own free will. When love is
given this way it is pure. 
So, ask yourself..."Why did God allow free will?"
Think about it.
That free will also allows us to go AGAINST him. It allows us to
HATE him, despise him or whatever else you're into.
To blame God for SIN is to ignore this fact. 
Free will. The ability to choose between right and wrong and do
either. The ability to change our lives. It's more than a page of
text..it's more than any man can write because it encompasses everything
we do and don't do. 
With that free will also comes accountability and responsibility.
Two words out of many that you wish to pin on other people who choose
to love the God that is their Holy Father.

Message: 60970
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Question?
Subject: Mike
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 02:42:49

Do you believe that God loves Satan more than He loves the human animal?

Message: 60971
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Debates
Date: 09/13/89  Time: 02:43:32

The difference between a person of religion and an atheist in an
emergency is that the religious will spend their time praying while the
atheist will use theirs finding a quick solution.

The religious think that their deity is on their side and is helping
them.  The atheist knows they have to depend on their own abilities to
help themselves.

Just like in a good debate.

If the professed religious think they are receiving help from their
deities in these debates then why do the atheists come across better? 

Who is helping the atheist, Satan?  If that is true then Satan is
smarter than God.

Actually the atheist can come up with better logic and more striking
messages because their minds are devoid of all the gobbledegook that
goes along with religious dogma.

Dean's messages, along with others, are a fine example of atheist
minds in action.  Christians usually look to an outdated and untrue
book for their answers and consequently do not fare very well.   -Rod