Apollo BBS Archive - October 1989

Apollo BBS Archive - October 26 - 28, 1989

Message: 61719
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bufeo
Date: 10/24/89  Time: 20:26:15

I have always felt that I am a female porpoise trapped in the body of a male
human.  However, I am attracted to female porpoises.  Does that make me a
lesbian?

Message: 61720
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 10/24/89  Time: 21:26:07

No, this means that you are insane.

Message: 61721
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ann??
Date: 10/24/89  Time: 21:57:17

What was that about playing with the dog
????????????????????????????????????????

Message: 61722
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Last
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 02:39:52

I think that you got him excited, Ann.

Message: 61723
Author: $ Ralph Blehm
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 05:50:41

I did not know that you kept your dog in the refer.

Message: 61724
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 06:18:06

Re: "You made my day!"
Gee, Bob, I thought you knew that I liked you all along!

Message: 61725
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bob T.
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 06:21:55

 Re: all the Ann,Ann,Ann; Paul, Paul, Paul stuff.....
 I think we agreed at the pie GT that the BBS needed some more controversy
to get things stirred up, and since we are usually at odds about something,
I guess this is just our way of showing exasperation with each other's
views.
 Actually, if I saw Annie, I would give her a big hug. (If I could get by
the smell of her nicotine addiction, that is.)

Message: 61726
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff Beck
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 06:24:01

 I guess I would call a boxing match entertainment (if blood sports is your
thing) until the event reaches into the multi-million dollar range. Then I
suppose it would qualify as news of sorts. At least for the sports section.

Message: 61727
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Politics
Subject: Bakker
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 08:49:03

I was really disappointed with the Bakker sentence.  It was too severe.  One
could murder, rape, rob, etc. and not get sentenced to 45 years.  In fact
you could attempt to assassinate the president of the USA and not get 45
years.  You could sell top secret info to the Russians and not get 45 years.

I think the reason Bakker got such a stiff sentence was because he claimed
to be a Christian and had an organization that claimed to be Christian.  I
use the word "claimed" because I don't want anyone jumping on me about
whether he was a Christian or not.  If Bakker had been the chairman of a
mega buck Realtor organization, he would not have gotten 45 years for sure!

Message: 61728
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob on Paul
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 09:28:02

Paul did give me a big hug at the GT and my 'smell' did not seem to affect
him that badly. BTW - I enjoyed it! 
Re: 'Paul, Paul, Ann, Ann, etc. --- we're just trying to pound our points
into each other's heads is all. Ha. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61729
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob on Bakker
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 09:33:18

I thought for once that a crook got what he deserved. But you're right in
the point that murderers and rapists get off with less. There ought to be
standard sentences for each offence and they inforce it to the hilt for all
crimes. As it is - two people can rob a bank identically - one will get ten
years and the other 2 years. Same for murder. Bakker will no doubt get his
parole in 10 years. Bah, humbug! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61730
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Vote
Subject: Current [V]ote
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 17:13:17

        The recent earthquake in California has brought out some criticism
of the news media.  Let's see how the users of Apollo feel about this media
blitz.  Please pick the "CLOSEST" answer to your feelings.

[A] The Media has done a fine job, (Great Journalism)
[B] The Media reported it well, but then overdid it.
[C] The Media sensationalized, giving the illusion there was more damage
    and death then there really was.  (Poor Journalism)
[D] ? What earthquake??

Poll results to date:
[A] 5    [B] 8    [C] 5    [D] 2

==========================================================================
        Look at [B] & [C].... over [A] Why?
[D] was a joke...what 2 dorks answered that one?

If you are a $tatus user, PLEASE [V]ote.  If you are NOT a $tatus user,
Why not?  $tatus is on SALE till the end of this month at only 1/2 price.
That is only $6.00 for a full 12 months of Apollo $tatus!  50 cents per
month.........  

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61731
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 18:45:19

What does nicotine addiction taste like?

Message: 61732
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/61726
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 19:37:09

Sure, announcing the winner of a big fight is news, just as announcing the
damage and casualty toll of a quake is news.  But broadcasts of the fight,
in whole or in part, are entertainment, just as broadcasts depicting trauma
are intended as morbid entertainment, or at least an attractor of attention.

Message: 61733
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: James Hawley
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 19:42:42

That's just the sort of response I'd expect from a bourgeois mind.  When are
you going to get past your parochialism, your prejudice of people who are
different from yourself, whose preferences you may not understand?  We are
all creatures of the Earth, men and porpoises, and you should not stand in
judgement.  
 
Come on, people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try and
love one another right now.

Message: 61735
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Bob/Sentencing
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 21:36:09

  Squeaky Fromm got a life sentence for her attempted assassination of
President Ford, which she is still serving after 14 years and one recent
escape.
   See You Later
      Dean H.

Message: 61736
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Entertainment/Movies
Subject: Trying Times
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 22:55:54

I recommend that everybody try to catch these shows on PBS (Channel 8 here
in Phoenix).  Tonight's (repeated on Saturday night) is called "The Hit
List" and stars Geena Davis (and one of the guys from Animal House) in a
strange little story about conspiracies.

Message: 61737
Author: Steve Evans
Category: Bulletins
Subject: BBSWEST BBS LIST
Date: 10/25/89  Time: 23:21:13

The BBSWEST Online Systems Phone Directory
   
The BBSWEST directory is more than just
another BBS list.  It is a complete, current,
and comprehensive database of information on
the local Phoenix online community.
   
Plus BBSWEST provides utilities to create your
own personal directories from the listing.
You can extract certain types of systems and
then have the selected systems converted right
to the communications program you use.
  
So try BBSWEST today.  The Online World is
only a phone call away.

Message: 61738
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Beck
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 00:16:41

If you think you are indeed a dolphin of some sort, perhaps you should be
dumped in the middle of the ocean and see how well your survive.  I do
indeed understand that most people are different.  A comment was asked for
and one was given.  

If you don't like the answer you shouldn't ask questions.

Message: 61739
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: heh heh/Hawley
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 01:33:38

You're such a flake, James.  
 

Message: 61740
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Trying Times
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 01:35:00

I saw one about a maid who changed clothes in each room she cleaned.  Quite
strange, but also amusing.  Buck Henry directed.

Message: 61741
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Bob/Bakker
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 06:15:45

 I agree. In fact, I don't believe that any useful purpose can be served by
putting the man in prison at all. If, in fact, all those people were
defrauded by PTL, a more appropriate sentence would be supervied probation,
with complete restitution being made to the "victims".
 Bakker sitting in a cell, with a $500,000 fine going into the government's
coffers, does absolutely nothing for thhe benefit of those who were relieved
of their money. 
 Again, as I have advocated in the past, prison space should be reserved for
those who are a danger to society. Jim Bakker, a relatively harmless little
man, at least physically, rots in a cell while this monster who raped a girl
and then cut her arms off runs loose in society. This is justice?

Message: 61742
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject:  J.T.
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 06:21:44

 "What does nicotine addiction taste like?"
 That sonds like a loaded question James, but as I remember it, (and
thank God that some memories fade!), it does carry a taste. Something like
waking up in the middle of the night, coughing and hacking until it's
gagging time, and then recognizing that distinct taste in your mouth that
says you have just licked a dirty ash tray clean. Blahch!
 Since the poisons in tobacco also tend to kill the taste buds, wht it
doesn't taste like is the pure pleasure of actually tasting what good food
ought to taste like, but that's not responsive to your question, is it?

Message: 61743
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on Bakker
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 11:47:11

You know, you have a good point there and believe it or not, you changed my
mind! (gads, can this be me talking?) The prisons are full of people that
don't belong there and the criminals get off with light sentences so they
can make room for more. Bakker was fined a huge amount - his life as a
preacher - on TV or other wise, is over. He's shamed. Probation for a long
period would be good enough - like 10 years or so. It's not like he murdered
or raped someone or even wielded a gun to get the people to contribute. So,
like I said, I see your point and it's a good one. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61744
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bakker in Jail!
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 12:36:36

        I have to agree, Paul's post made good sense and I would much rather
see a murderer or rapist in jail occupying Jim Bakkers cell.  What he did
was not good, but the so called victims GAVE Bakker their money under their
own free will.  You can't protect people from their own stupidity.... 
right?  He should have been sentenced to do community work and to do
restitution where ever he could.
        Justice is not always true moral justice...  A rapist who hurts
people will walk, and a con artist will do time... ???

        Good Posts Paul, Ann and Bob...

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61745
Author: $ Gary Jones
Category: In search of
Subject: MIDI
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 16:33:32

Does the MUSIC SIG have anything on it concerning Computer generated music,
ie: Musical Instrument Digital Interface topics?

Message: 61746
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:16:20

Re:  "Squeaky Fromm got a life sentence for her attempted assassination"

Yea.  I had forgot about that.  I was thinking of "what's his name" that
tried to shoot Reagan.

Message: 61747
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:18:46

Re:  "$500,000 fine going into the government's
coffers"

Is that who gets it?  I was wondering.  It should go back to the people who
gave it in the first place.  But that would be a tough job to figure out.

Message: 61748
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:22:04

Re:  "It's not like he murdered or raped someone"

You forgot about poor Jessica!  And look what it did to her.  It turned her
into a real pitiful person.  In fact, did you notice that she is putting
on makeup in the same style that Tammy does?

Message: 61749
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/Sqeaky
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:33:24

  You see, it makes a lot of difference whether you are doing Charles
Manson's bidding or Jodie Foster's.
   See You Later
      Dean H.

Message: 61750
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bob/Jessica Hahn
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:54:28

She didn't look too bad on CNN a couple of nights ago.  Actually I think Jim
was happy to go to jail.  If I were married to Tammy, I might like prison
better.

Message: 61751
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Adkins
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:55:25

Flake, eh?  My we're one to talk, aren't we?

Message: 61752
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hawley
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 20:40:49

Well, it's all relative, after all.  I do know, however, that I don't
respond to obviously humorous messages in an irrational, hostile manner.  I
also don't arrange for people to call a "friend" of mine, record the
conversation without his knowledge, attempt to entrap him with illegal
suggestions, attempt to elicit information of a highly personal nature, and
then play this recording to others, for entertainment.  Twice.
 
Despite the fact that I responded to your Judas like behavior with a good
deal of rage, I don't think you have any basis for judging yourself
ethically superior to me.  So get off your high horse.
 
I still get angry thinking about what you did, and given the fact that my
response was limited to threats, I consider myself supremely forbearant.
Evidently, you thought nothing of treating me like shit, and hopefully, you
now understand the gravity of your acts.
 
I have said nothing to you since using this BBS again, and personally, I
would just as soon go on that way.  I will not just ignore idiotic, hostile
remarks directed at me by YOU, however.  I resent your hostility, since you
have no legitimate reason to be hostile to me (quite the reverse), and I
find your self-righteousness galling, and not a little ironic.

Message: 61753
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: The SYSOP Speaks
Subject: Last few?
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 21:24:11

        Now boys...or is that men?   I like the both of you guys...so let's
just keep this to low roar.  There are problems between you two, this I can
not help, but I will suggest you avoid commenting on each others posts.

        Please!?

        None of us are perfect... we all make mistakes (SysOps less than
others), so let it go.  (Grin)

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61754
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Trust, etc.
Date: 10/26/89  Time: 23:15:35

OK, Apollo Users, I am the promoter for a new sideline of Apollo BBS.  We're
going to sell 10% interests in a new business to the first 20 comers.  We
expect the investment (yours for 10% of the business/profits) to cost around
$50,000.
 
We're going to make machine-lathed microchips.  The Japanese haven't even
started on this work, yet!  We'll make a mint!
 
(Now, for those who decided *not* to invest because I said I was selling 20
different people/groups each a 10% interest, think about this: Jim Bakker
didn't tell the fleeced that what he was selling he couldn't provide.  He
was hoping like HELL that the 'time-sharers' were too old/infirm/poor from
donating money to him that they wouldn't be able to visit Heritage USA)

Message: 61755
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Answer!
Subject: MIDI
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 04:52:32

There has been no discussion of MIDI on the Music Sig. You might try
Madisound at (608) 836-9473. They have a selection of MIDI related files.

Message: 61756
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/fines
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 06:15:36

 Assessed fines invariably go to the agency that levies them. They do
nothing for those who have been wronged, and serve only tto increase and
perpetuate what passes for a justice system. And again I say, real justice
would be far better served if white collar criminals were required to make
full restitution to their victims. Supervising such a program could be
accomplished at far less cost than incarceration, as well, thus saving the
already overburdened taxpaying public an appreciable amount of money.

Message: 61757
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/poor Jessica?
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 06:16:48

 I hope you didn't bite the tongue you most assuredly had in your cheek when
you wrote that!

Message: 61758
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob on the $500.000
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 09:21:38

My husband told me it cost millions for the state to prosicute Bakker and
that money will go towards paying it back. Guess everybody lost a lot with
him in the long run.  -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61759
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/Jessica
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 09:28:08

In my opinion, she's worse than Bakker and that includes in morals too. 
NO ONE forced her to do a thing and through that episode, she has made lots
of moolah - including her Playboy spread. She is now in the category of a
non-star - didn't do a thing to deserve it, but is always spread all over
the news. Guess sex and crime do pay to a certain extent eh? Zsa Zsa is also
in this same category. You can't call her a star, but she's always in the 
headlines and as phoney as Jessica. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61760
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James/Tammy vs Jessi
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 09:29:41

You've got a point there. Prison would be better. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61761
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Adkins
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 15:37:07

You entire assumptions were incorrect in the first place.  You are paranoid,
and can't understand reality.  You ask a stupid question and you expect
everyone to chuckle at your massive wit.

You don't seem to understand humor.  I fully admitted that my joke was in
bad taste.  It was not planned as a joke, but got turned into one.  You
*have* played practical jokes on me, but don't understand them when they are
played on you.

Your stupid conspiracy theories, are just that...  Stupid.  You had someone
call me when I was at your house and say they were a police officer.  But I
can take a joke.  You and I even planted the original THANG on Ann's lawn. 
You found it very humorous, so I know that you at least understand some of
the concepts of humor.

I was indeed your friend and felt very bad that you were hurt.  When someone
told JT about the tapes and he started putting his little stupid messages
up, I felt it has gone way too far.  I called you up and wanted you to come
over so I could tell you that I was sorry.  But you had had your wisdom
teeth out and you weren't feeling well.  Instead of waiting, I just told you
on the phone.  

You answered by coming over with a baseball bat and threathening me.  Real
understanding guy.

You threatened people who were not even involved with the joke.  You sent
vehement E-mail, threatening to KILL everyone who even knew about it.  Real
manly, eh?

Then 6 months after the incident you sent letters to Christian, Rod and me
saying, that "I haven't forgotten", and promising harm.  Of course these
were just little mind games trying to scare us.  

If you really thought that I was trying to blackmail you (Blackmail you for
what?  I don't think you have anything I would want...), you should have
contacted the police and filed charges.  

Again, I fully admit my guilt in the matter.  It was a dumb thing to do.  It
wasn't planned, and it was done on the spur of the moment.  Admittedly the
next day was a little more planned, but it was just following up on a joke. 
And it certainly wasn't funny.  

As for practical jokes....  Yes, I do think a little more when I think of
one.  I think, "Is this person rational"?  

To CLIFF:  Do not zap these messages.  Obviously it's not something that you
want to be brought out, but it's here, and it might as well stay here.

Message: 61763
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: James Hawley
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:22:54

Let's examine the facts:
 
You arranged to have two underage girls call me, and make sexual overtures. 
You arranged for them to ask questions which required intimate, and
in some cases, potentially compromising answers.
You recorded these conversations (to which you were not a party) without my
knowledge or consent.
When I voiced suspicions in this regard, they were continually denied.  In
fact, I was accused of paranoia (this seems to be a favorite game of yours),
and a continuous attempt was made to convince me of how cruel I was by
making such accusations and refusing to take part in suggested activities.
I repeatedly made it clear that I found these requests and questions
painful.
This happened on two separate occasions.
You played these tapes for entertainment purposes among yourselves, and to
others who knew me incidentally but were not involved directly in your
"joke".
You waited to tell me about this until quite some time later, after J.T.
left teasing messages in Spanish, and you were afraid that I would get wind
of what had gone on.
 
Yes, I fail to understand the humor in any of this.  Whether or not you
intended to blackmail me, (for money or anything else) is irrelevant. 
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a camera of microphone set up
for even less wholesome purposes than blackmail.  No matter whether or not
this was so.  There is no parallel between the jokes you allude to and your
actions. 
One of the statements in your last message was libelous.  I never
"threatened to kill everyone who even knew about it."  That is utterly
preposterous, since I would have had to threaten half the users of Apollo,
and not a few of my own friends and acquaintances that I have told about the
experience.  I threatened the people who were directly involved, admittedly,
with a good deal of vigour.  I also castigated those who had listened to
these tapes and yet had not informed me, making them accomplices.  I never
made specific threats against these incidental players, but sure, I thought
they deserved something, and made that clear.
If I were you, I would consider myself lucky.  I have never, directly or
indirectly, damaged or stolen your property, or caused you physical harm. 
After what you did to me (the gravity of which you still refuse to
acknowledge), I think you got off easy.
 
As for asking a stupid question and expecting people to chuckle at my
"massive wit", I think it is clear that you took the message seriously from
the start, and now that you are embarassed for having done so, rather than
admit what a boob you were, you accuse me of lacking a sense of humor.

Message: 61765
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dog
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:48:42

Re:  "We're going to sell 10% interests in a new business to the first 20
comers."

How much can I get for $1.98?

Message: 61766
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: State Fair
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:53:08

I went to the state fair yesterday and saw that they had petitions to sign
for recalling Dennis, restoring Columbus Day, Stopping an increase on
property tax, and limited terms of office for politicians.  I signed them
all.  I love democracy! 

Message: 61767
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:55:00

Re:  "My husband told me it cost millions for the state to prosicute
Bakker"

The same went for North.  And who gets stuck paying the bill?  Why the tax
payers of course.

Message: 61768
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:57:22

Re:  "You and I even planted the original THANG on Ann's lawn."

Hey Ann!  The truth is finally out!

Message: 61769
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: James Hawley
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 18:48:36

Let's get a few other things straight, shall we:
 
You claim, "it was not planned as a joke, but got turned into one."  What
was it planned as, then, if not a "joke" (read vicious trick) ?  It was
outrageous lies from the very start, and they were well scripted lies. 
Christian calls me up and the first thing she says, essentially, is "Hi,
Mark, me and Eve are over at James Hawley's apartment drinking.  James has
passed out.  Why don't you come over and have sex?"  Except that this is
paraphrased.  Her exact words were in such an obviously contrived,
unnatural, Hawleyesque style, it was clear that you had planned the whole
thing out front.
Not that this excuses either of them.  Christian sweetly denied all of my
accusations, even when she was asking me highly personal questions with full
knowledge that the answers would be played for others, for entertainment. 
Spill your guts to me, honey, so I can share the guffaws.
 
You were never my friend.  I was simply someone to provide diversion when
you became bored.  You always had a petty, jealous streak in you, and this
was manifested on many occasions.  I remember the time we were out biking,
and your front wheel fell off.  Well, my mom was nice enough to drive out
and pick you up.  Instead of responding with gratitude, you made snippy
comments about the fact that she drives a Cadillac, after she asked us to
please be careful not to scratch the paint as we loaded your damaged bike in
the car trunk.

Even more outrageous is this martyred picture you paint of yourself.  You
have yet to take responsibility for the seriousness of your actions and the
serious consequences they engendered.  You claim to have called me on the
phone because I wasn't feeling well, and you didn't want me to have to see
you in person.  Well, this is pure crap, and you know it.  You had ample
opportunity in the months that followed the incident to inform me in person.
 In fact, you and Christian, according to your own admission, came over one
night ostensibly to invite me to go biking, but really to break the news. 
Well, we went biking, but you didn't tell me anything.  You know that the
only reason you ever mentioned it to me was the fact that someone else was
about to.
 
Again, if this wasn't planned, and it wasn't funny, then why did you call
back a second time a day later to do the same thing, and why do you call it
a joke?  If it was clear after the first conversation that I was being
injured (and I made it clear that I was, even though I had no idea that this
injury would be compounded by taping these conversations and making them
public), why did you call back a second time, if not to play more cruel
tricks?  I think you are trying to mask your malice by calling it a
practical joke.  A fairly common rationale, I believe.
 
I have no sympathy for you, and in fact I despise you utterly.  You are a
petty, backstabbing traitor, and what bothers you more than anything else is
not your conscience, but the fact that I punished you for your transgression

Eve, and particularly Christian, are no better.  It still galls me to think
of the way Christian tried to make me feel guilty and tried to play on my
sympathies in order to get me to answer her probing questions and make some
sort of commitment :  "Oh, Mark, I couldn't sleep last night.  Why are you
being so mean to me", &c., &c.
 
It was my original conviction that Rod Williams was directly involved,
because the second call was made from his shop, and because I heard his
voice in the background, and because he never did like me, and shared some
of the same, petty traits that you have , Hawley.  It is theoretically
possible that I heard someone that sounded like Rod, and that he had no
knowledge.  If I could know that for a fact, I would personally apologise to
Rod, profusely.  At this point, I no longer care, even if he was involved.
 
As for the rest of those involved, the people who heard these tapes and who
knew what was going on but didn't tell me about it, you have my lifelong
comtempt.  Particularly Nick Ianuzzi, the arrogant S.O.B., who refused to
acknowledge his omission as even being negligent.  You're an
asshole, buddy, and don't forget it!

Message: 61772
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Last few
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 19:54:59

My, aren't we brave.  

This is all nonsense.  How did I script what Christian had to say?  She was
indeed over here with Eve.  And it was not my idea to have her call you. 
She was BORED and wanted to talk with you.  I didn't even have your number.

What in the hell would I gain from blackmailing you?  I am more than willing
to have a GT and let everyone listen to the tapes.  If you can find anything
more than a drunken girl flirting with a guy who she knew liked her, then
you are correct.  Let me ammend that...  Christian didn't even know the
initial tape was being made.  She did know the second one was.  

You stated on the tape that, "I know this is a practical joke of Hawley's". 
Are you a fool, then?  Don't you even believe your own comments?  As for
whose voice was on the tape at the shop, it was either mine or Nicks.  Nick
came in in the middle of the conversation, and we were talking in the back
room.

You say that I have no remorse for what I did.  You are blind.  I am indeed
sorry for a bad practical joke.  But certainly not for your imagined harm to
your ego.  Your warped mind will believe whatever it likes.  

Nick was at the shop when we played the second tape.  We all agreed that it
had gone too far, and felt bad that your feelings were hurt.

If ten people came out and said the same thing about the tape, you would
just say that it was a conspiracy.  That no one can ever understand you. 
You're just too much above the normal person.  You have indeed threatened
all of the people who heard the tape with bodily harm.  It is such a shame
that person who so much potential can be so foolish.

You also suggested that Christian strip me and dump by out by the pool. 
If you believed the conversation was genuine, that would have been a very
cruel thing to do.  

Christian and I came by no more than a week after the initial phone call
came.  We were worried that Christian had hurt your feelings.  And I told
you on the phone because you wouldn't go to a movie (because of your dental
work).  I *tried* to tell you in person, but you wouldn't go.

You have also made phone calls late at night, and I not being home, you left
messages irrationally accusing me of electronic surveilance of your house.  
I am beating a dead horse.  Your mind is indeed different from most.  But
every assest has a liability.  Your liability happens to be paranoia.

And again it was started as a joke.  I had just bought my answering machine
and thought I would see if the record conversation feature would work.

Christian never said she would have sex with you.  I guess you've never been
in a social situtation where women flirt with you.  Liquor has certain
effects on people.

I was certainly your friend.  And I certainly enjoyed our bike ride and
other activities.  I suppose that the only thing that I could have said
about your moms car was that it was a 'boat'.  IE, very large.  I was in a
great deal of pain, a chip of bone having broken off in my left shoulder. 
It would be pretty hard to intentionally insult someone who was helping me
at a time of great need.

And to clarify, the first tape WAS funny.  Hilarious, as a matter of fact. 
Not really you, but Christian flirting with you.  You certainly ACTED like
you understood it was a joke.  The second one became a little too personal
on your side, and I knew that you had been hurt.

That certainly was not my idea of a good joke.  That is why I didn't tell
you the day after.  I knew your feelings were hurt, and didn't want to make
it worse.  Nick or David told JT and he started his jibes, and I felt it
better to tell you myself.

It's as simple as that.  Christian has tried to explain it to you, but you
wouldn't listen.  I would be glad to send you a copy of the tapes and let
you judge them for yourselves.  No more.  

Message: 61776
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mark/James
Date: 10/27/89  Time: 23:01:55

        I know there was no script... I know Rod Williams knew nothing about
it.... AND... I have known James Hawley for more years than you and I KNOW
he has felt very bad about this...and is sorry.....  Mark, you are so
upset...you refuse to see the truth.  You have convinced yourself there was
this plot that never was.   The joke was in bad taste...but that is all it
was.  
        I as a third party...am very depressed to see two friends go at it.
Speaking of 'friends'... James did consider you one, because he spoke highly
of you and the bike rides.

        Sigh....  this is going nowhere...  I would gladly sit in on a
meeting between you two!  Not to take sides, but to untie this twisted knot
of confusion.

P.S.  James humor at times is hard to understand....  I KNOW!

Message: 61777
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mark/James
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 02:56:33

Mark, I don't know you, (are you Jeff?  Why the hell are you logging on as
Jeff Beck?  Never mind) but I would like to say this to you and James:

GET THIS THING THE HELL OFF THE MAIN BOARD!

James, I'd like to think that you're still the same caring person I knew
(what seems like eons ago), and it is becoming increasingly difficult with
Mark's posts.  Mark, you're beginning to sound like a vengeful maniac.  You
both are sounding very petty and very, very stupid.  Please save my stupid
misconceptions about what a nice person James is (and what a decent person
you are, Mark) by getting this thing into private mail where it belongs. 
This board is beginning to read like a tabloid.

Cliff, I think your judgement on leaving this on the main board and not
moving the messages to private mail was a bad one.  There are some things
that are better discussed elsewhere.

Do the two of you (James and Mark) really want this to be the public
spectacle it has become?  Your evident initial friendship is trashed now by
the "publicity" if it wasn't by the intial argument.  It's a lot harder to
kiss and make up in front of tens of people.

HB

Message: 61778
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: James Hawley
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 03:43:45

Look you idiot, how gullible to you think I am?  Or are you simply trying to
save your reputation in front of your friends?
It was perfectly obvious, contrasting Christian's normal speech patterns and
idioms with those she used during these conversations, that she was both
insincere and affectatious, and it's no coincedence that it sounded just
like you.  First you claim that you have destroyed these tapes, now you not
only demonstrate you were lying, you want to have a GT and play them some
more?  Haven't you learned anything?  I am not possessed of inexhaustible
patience.  
Sure, I'm a fool.  I'm a fool for not sticking with my initial suspicions. 
I'm a fool for yielding to the manipulations of a young attractive girl.
I have never said that no one can understand me.  I have never said that I
am "too much above the normal person".  These projections are part of your
basic insecurity around me, and they say a lot about your motivations.
Conspiracy is such an emotion laden word.  A negative word.  I have never
said there was any conspiracy; I have said that the basic nature of the act
was malicious, not humorous, and it was.
I never suggested that Christian strip you and dump you by the pool.  I
made the statement that you should be stripped and dumped in the hall; a
rhetorical statement prompted by the suspicion (well founded) that you were
listening.
Now you say that it started as a joke.  In a previous message, you claimed
that it did not start as a joke, but became one.  Now you have the audacity
to suggest that the whole thing was a test of your answering machine.

You seem to jump from excuse to excuse, from rationalisation to
rationalisation.  I interpret these gross inconsistencies and rediculous
stories as evidence of the tenuousness of your position.
Christian most certainly asked for sex.  If you have edited these tapes to
remove any suggestion of this, it is irrelevant.  I most certainly know the
difference between flirtation and explicit sexual invitation.  You are a
liar, and we both know it.
Yes, it would be pretty hard to intentionally insult someone who was helping
you, but you managed just the same.  I recall your behavior not as ordinary
if strained, but as taciturn,  and actively ingrateful.  I had to
prompt you to offer thanks, and even then it was done with reluctance and
surliness.
I am not paranoid, despite your fervent desire to paint me in this light.  I
see no evidence of remorse; your attitude, even when confronted with a
baseball bat, was one of cavalier indifference.  I do not accept "Geez,
can't you take a joke?" as a sincere apology or evidence of remorse.  You
are a deeply disturbed and malicious individual, and your half-hearted
attempts at reconciliation are only an attempt to make your actions seem
less dastardly in the eyes of your friends and peers.

Message: 61781
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 04:10:07

Thanks for your concern.  But I'm afraid friendship has blinded you to
certain unpleasant truths concerning James Hawley and his pathological
attitudes and motivations.
 
I appreciate a wide range of humor, from the obvious and gentle, to the
subtle and sardonic, to the eccentric and off the wall.  Primitive humor and
sophisticated humor.  I appreciate humor at my own expense, as well as humor
at the expense of others, (if deserving), and humor that injures no one to
any degree.  Yet I do not see humor in this incident involving, primarily,
James Hawley and Christian Williams (and her sister).  Isn't that strange?

Message: 61782
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ms. Brown
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 04:16:08

Sorry you have been offended.  I have no apologies for destroying any
illusions you might entertain regarding James Hawley's nature.  It's good to
pull your head out of the sand and get a breath of fresh air every once in a
while, anyway.
You must admit that it was not I who stirred up the pot.  Nevertheless, I
have no regrets that I dumped the pot over, the better to examine its
contents.  Tune in tomorrow for another episode.  Who needs General
Hospital?

Message: 61783
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/petitions
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 05:29:46

 Yes, but how did you enjoy the fair? (smile)
 I went for two of the petitions, dealing with the tax increase and terms of
office, but not the other two. The advocates of Columbus day, which is fine
with me, have associated themselves with that bigoted crazy man who only
wants to kill the MLK day because his misguided prejudice fires the flames
of his hate for blacks. As for DeConcini, his personal involvements with
Keating and his wife's investments aside, I think that he has done a
reasonably good job for the people of Arizona. If the majority of the people
disagree, the time to get rid of him is at the next election, not through a
lengthy and costly recall procedure.

Message: 61784
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 05:38:16

 I have to agree with Heather Cliff. This personal problem between James and
Mark would be better held in private mail. Couldn't the rest of us be spared
the gory and boring details?

Message: 61785
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob on THANG
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 06:34:20

Yes, the truth is finally out. I knew James was one of them, but I didn't
know or have any idea it was Mark too. 
It is sad to see two old friends fighting so harshly. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61786
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on Mark/James
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 06:56:44

I disagree with Ms. Brown and Paul. I feel James is a long standing member
of this BBS and has a right to put his posts where ever he wants. He has not
broken any rules. Their fight might be a pretty heated one, but if you make
them go to another place, then I feel the rest of us can't be free to have a
heated arguments either. You, me and Paul have had some pretty heated one's
too, yet you did not censor us. Personally, I resent Ms. Brown's
attitute in acting like she owns the place and I ask 'who the hell is she'
to dictate? There has be a lot said on the BB that I didn't like or agreed
with - but I can always press the 'S' key for skip anytime! So, as long as
James and Mark do not disobey the basic rules, I say let them stay! If they
lose this freedom, then we all do. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61787
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul on MLK
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 09:30:30

        You can kiss up to that jerk MLK all you want..  But I do not think
he deserves a holiday in his name.  There are other blacks much more
deserving than he.  The holiday was done the first time illegally so Babbit
would look good for political reasons.  It is unfair how you call Mr Mecham
such dirty names and he is not here to defend himself. You plainly make me
ashamed of the name calling and the superior judgmental attitude you
display. Another name for it would be 'bigot'.  Re: a person that who
holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, OPINION, etc.  A
narrow-minded, intolerant person.  by Webster unabridged!
        
        Have you noticed the greedy reason the MLK day was past?  You
bleeding heart WHITES are so determined to give the Blacks a holiday to
cover up your guilt, that you have painted that bigoted, rapist idiot as
a saint. 
        I as an American citizen, am offended that such a political sham was
used to perpetrate such a phony holiday.....  I stand with Mecham on this
issue!
        Funny how the questionable money involved with DeConcini was a much
larger sum than that of Mr Mecham.  Funny that Mr Mecham told the truth and
DeConcini has openly LIED..... And people like Paul keep eating out of his
hand.   DeConcini told me that he believed in the right to own and carry
arms....  Now he is turning that right into "the right to own and carry
sporting goods"...and not arms to defend ones self from tyranny

Message: 61788
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Paul/Heather
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 09:45:11

        The two of you want me to ZAP their posts from the PUBlic board
where THEY choose to put them?  You want me to squelch their right to
freedom of speech?....  Look Paul/Heather....  this SYSOP does not infringe
on that right to please you two!
        That problem happens to involve others on Apollo...and just not two
people....  Private mail could not accommodate that very well in MY opinion.
Thank GOD, Paul does not run Apollo... or nothing could be said freely or
openly without unjust censorship.
        I am not pleased they are arguing, but it has been festering in them
for well OVER a year and just maybe they will get it out of their system if
they air it publicly. I think they are both over blowing it out of
proportion, as neither one is as bad as the other describes.   If hostility
is kept within, it is more damaging than if released.  Who knows, they may
even become good friends again....  
        
        Let them have their say!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=**=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61789
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann Oudin..
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 09:53:30

        Why THANK you Dear.....   I posted my post on freedom of speech
before I got to your wonderful post saying pretty much how I feel about this
subject.  This is the one thing that shines on Apollo...  The RIGHT to POST!
And you have the RIGHT to [S]kip!  (Get your cake and eat it too!)
        
        Thank you Annie!   You made me feel good that someone appreciates
that freedom.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61790
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/last
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 10:38:34

Way to go Cliffy. Viva Apollo! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 61791
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Vote
Subject: Hawley/Adkins
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 10:47:06

        How about posting a transcript of the tape then having a
[V]ote on which of you guys is a psycho?  Winner gets a free trip
to 24th Street and Van Buren.
        Whaddya say, Cliff?

Message: 61792
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill Burkett
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 10:56:07

        I am getting curious as to what that "TAPE" held that has made these
two users so upset.  Maybe a transcript is in order.... but that is up to
them at this point.  Privacy has to be considered......

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61793
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Compromise a Right?
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 11:07:13

                   Compromise Rights?

        I have heard the argument that the RIGHT to own and carry arms be 
limited to 'SOME' arms...  maybe for sporting purposes?   Hunting rabbits
only, or maybe Quail! (not the Vice President)
        Okay, I can live with that...IF.....
The right to Religion is adjusted to be the right to attend 'SOME' churches
that are okayed by the Government.  Maybe to worship the Congress God!
        And....
The right to freedom of the press to only print 'SOME' news...such as the 
Sunday funnies if they do not make a political or racial statement.
        
        How does the above sound... Fair?  yes, since that is what a lot of
you Anti-Weapon/Gun/Assault implement people want.  Let's compromise all our

RIGHTs!  We ARE heading that way folks..... just keep making stupid laws.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 61794
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jim Bakker
Date: 10/28/89  Time: 12:46:21

I doubt that a murderer or rapist would be a better occupant of Jim Bakker's
MEDIUM-LOW security prison cell.

Bulletin Board command ([H] for help):EC

You chose Chit Chat

Subject:Various

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Kim Sue Lia Perkes is the best Religious Editor the Arizona Republic ever 
 2:had.
 3:
 4:Jeff Beck and James Hawley should have a good laugh together and erase all 
 5:the bullcrap from their memory banks.  In the long term it would be better 
 6:for everyone who is concerned, mental health included.
 7:
 8:Whoever said that true freedom of speech is allowed on this particular 
 9:system should wash their mouth out with soap.  It simply does not exist.  
10:Although it did long ago.