Home ->
Apollo BBS ->
Apollo Archive Index ->
November 1989 -> November 1 - 2
Apollo BBS Archive - November 1 - 2, 1989
Message: 61795 This is me.*********
Author: Robert Adams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Various
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 13:10:23
Kim Sue Lia Perkes is the best Religion Editor the Arizona Republic ever
had.
Jeff Beck and James Hawley should have a good laugh together and erase all
the bullcrap from their memory banks. In the long term it would be better
for everyone who is concerned, mental health included.
Whoever said that true freedom of speech is allowed on this particular
system should wash their mouth out with soap. It simply does not exist.
Although it did long ago.
Rod (sour grapes) Williams
Message: 61797
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Vote
Subject: Cliff on MLK
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 14:18:16
Cliff, I think you're wrong.
First of all, please tell me, who are the blacks that you think are more
deserving of a holiday than Martin Luther King Jr.? Name some names.
Secondly, please substantiate the claim that Martin Luther King Jr. was a
rapist. If you can't back yourself up on this statement, please correct
yourself.
Third, what makes you think the holiday is a way for whites to feel less
guilty? That's a possible explanation (and a very simple-minded one), but
how can you ignore the other possibilities? For example, what if instead of
the holiday being used as a conscience-clearer, it is used as a reminder and
commemoration of blacks' struggle for freedom? How can you easily jump to
the conclusion that there are such shallow motivations as "to make (whites)
feel less guilty." That's pretty illogical. You could also say that
Christmas is a way to make atheists feel left out, that Labor Day is a way
to make the unemployed feel guilty, that Arbor Day is a way to make us feel
less guilty for cutting down thousands of trees, that Mother's and Father's
Day are ways to make us feel less guilty for neglecting our parents, that
Easter is a way for us to feel less guilty for abusing rabbits, and that
Halloween is a way to remind us of our inherently Satanic nature.
Message: 61798
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: holidays
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 14:35:39
On the other hand, I think Columbus Day is a stupid holiday. If Martin
Luther King Jr. was a man with personal faults, then Christopher Columbus
was Lucifer.
(1) Columbus was not the first to discover America. Other explorers, such
as Amerigo Vespucci, beat him to it.
(2) Columbus never set a foot on North America. He did land on Southern
American soil. Certainly not someone for the U.S.A. to commemorate.
(3) Columbus didn't know he'd found a new land, and probably would not have
cared. He was mostly concerned with making money. He didn't know he'd
discovered anything special.
(4) Columbus collected the "Indians" he found as slaves and abused them.
He took their gold, and took many of them back with him. If they didn't
give him gold or do what he ordered, in many cases he killed or abused them
(in some instances cutting off hands or arms as punishment).
--- So why should we have a Columbus holiday? Because we're too stubborn to
change a misguided tradition? Because we're afraid other states won't go
along with it, and will dislike us? Hmmm?
How about a ote on this? (If one hasn't already been done.)
Message: 61799
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Adkins and Hawley
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 14:44:27
Nothing like a rush of ANGER and HOSTILITY to get the blood moving.
I agree with Cliff and Ann that their posts should be allowed to remain.
People can always [S]kip, and it's more interesting than much of the other
discussion going on. Granted, it may be poor judgment (spelled without an
"e") for them to go public, but it's their right.
Message: 61800
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Posts
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 17:03:27
This whole thing has gone on for so long, that it is better to have
everything in the open. 50% of the board knows the basics of the story, so
why only have it in E-mail?
If this offends anyone, I am truly sorry.
I may have harmed Mark, but his response was so vehement as for me label him
insane.
Message: 61801
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Adkins
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 17:13:09
I never said I destroyed the tapes. You told me, "You will destroy those
tapes, or suffer the consequences". I have every piece of E-mail and U.S.
mail that you ever sent me. I can post them if you wish.
Of course (as with the tapes) you will just say, "Oh you doctored them, so
why should we believe you"?
If only you had a shred of common sense. You sent multiple copies of most
of the letters, so doctoring is kind of hard.
I fell sorry that you are so insecure that you can't even log on under your
real name. Of course it is only because 'you don't want to be
pidgeonholed'. Almost everyone knows who you are, so why bother?
Your assumption that I insulted you mother on purpose is ludicrous. I was
in incredible pain, and you actually believe that I would insult her.
I've been told that the more you call an insane person insane the angrier
they become. It seems to be true. You can not have a rational discussion
with an insane mind. Mark only has time to stew at home and build up his
self imposed hatred for me. It's self destroying and futile. I feel very
bad for you.
Message: 61802
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hawley
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 18:37:43
First of all, you did tell me you destroyed these tapes. Second, I never
accused you of doctoring any mail I sent you; I said that there were
explicit sexual invitations on the tapes, and if they are no longer there,
it is because you removed them.
I logged on using an alias long before this argument, and long before anyone
knew I was using the bbs. There are a couple of reasons. First, due to the
fact that I am not a status user, anyone can log on under my name and leave
messages. This was done shortly after I left Apollo and resigned my status.
The only way to get around this, short of buying status, is to have my name
on the blacklist, so to speak. Thus, no one can use it.
Second, I wanted my posts to be judged purely on their own merit, not on the
basis of past associations, or innacurate mental models. True, at this
point, that is no longer possible.
Third, I was not interested in bringing up the subject. The reason that I
left Apollo (and stopped using BBSs altogether for a long while) was to
escape any reminders of your little joke. This was as much for your benifit
as for mine. When I finally decided to start using the board again, it was
a sure bet that logging on under my own name would start vexatious arguments
like this one. Finally, as I explained before, people instinctively look
for pattern and tend to ignore or misinterpret that which doesn't fit. This
was the reason that for a while I used a different alias each visit. People
are willing to except different forms of expression from different people,
but attempt to make uniform different forms from the same person.
Message: 61803
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hawley
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 18:47:41
It may be true that calling an insane person "insane" will enrage them. I'm
not an expert in this regard, and I don't think you are either. It is also
true, however, that unjust, malicious, and injurious labels will make an
ordinary person angry.
As for stewing and building up "self-imposed" hatred for you, keep in mind
that you started this argument with an insulting (and rather silly) shot at
me. I was just using the BBS, ignoring you for the most part. The person
you insist sits at home rubbing his hands together with malicious glee and
cackling with insane laughter exists only in your imagination (and even
there, it is merely a convenient caricature).
If you were genuine, you would not be attempting to stir up trouble. Ever
hear the old saying about letting sleeping dogs lie?
Message: 61804
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: sysop
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 18:49:55
It stands to reason, that if I found these tapes offensive and a source of
grief, I wouldn't want them posted, now doesn't it? This is a very bad
idea.
Message: 61805
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 20:56:16
Re: "I have heard the argument that the RIGHT to own and carry arms be
limited to 'SOME' arms..."
I think congress should pass a law mandating that everyone has to carry a
side arm in public. We wouldn't have to worry about overcrowded prisons or
feeble corrupt judges. Law biding citizens could just administer justice on
the spot as the need arises.
Message: 61806
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Adams
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 20:57:49
Re: "Kim Sue Lia Perkes is the best Religious Editor the Arizona Republic
ever had."
That's not saying much. All of them have been wanting.
Message: 61807
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 20:59:30
Re: "who are the blacks that you think are more
deserving of a holiday than Martin Luther King Jr."
George Washington Carver.
Message: 61808
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/28/89 Time: 21:02:15
Re: "So why should we have a Columbus holiday? Because we're too stubborn
to change a misguided tradition? Because we're afraid other states won't go
along with it, and will dislike us? Hmmm?"
So why should we have a MLK holiday? Because we're too stubborn to change a
misguided tradition? Because we're afraid other states won't go along with
it, and will dislike us? Hmmm?
Message: 61809
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Apollo Watergate
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 00:15:48
Isn't this special?
We have our own version of watergate, complete with the sleaze factor
and the politics of mud slinging.
Amusing.
Message: 61810
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/freedoms
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 06:28:29
You made a point I had not considered, concerning the ongoing discussions
between Hawley and Adkins. THey are exercizing a right none of us can afford
to lose. I withdraw my request to Cliff, and simply ask Mark and James to
bury the past, shake hands and live as though today was the first day of the
rest of your lives. It's painful to all to see two old friends so hostile
toward each other, whatever the reason. Hatred and bitterness are
self-destructive, and you are both too valuable for that. Peace?
Message: 61811
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff!
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 06:38:46
How soon have you forgotten the many, many posts I have put on this and
other BBSes concerning the MLK day. I have kissed up to no-one, never in the
past, and surely not now! I have stated, time and time again, that I felt
that whoever designated King as the hero of the civil rights movement cold
have picked someone a lot more acceptable.
The bigot and racist in this case is the Mormon jerk (I forget his name or
I would use it instead of his religion to identify him) who is ramrodding
the repeal of the holiday only to satisfy his own racist leanings. All I
said was that I refused to sign the Columbus day restoration petition, not
because I do not sympathize with the Italian community's cause, but because
they have aligned themselves with that idiot, and have thus painted
themselves with the same racist, bigot brush.
As far as the DeConcini recall, I personally do not support it, since I
have had occasion to use the Senator's office a couple of times, and have
always been treated with the utmost courtesy and have always gotten results.
That, to me, is what the man is there for. If you have a cause he has not
supported, then take him to task for it and find out why. If enough people
feel the way you do about him, he will not survive the next election. Why go
to the expense of yet another expensive recall election to do it a little
quicker?
Message: 61812
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 06:40:10
Please accept a carbon copy of my post to Ann on the subject of the
Hawley/Adkins dispute.
Message: 61813
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thornburg
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 06:53:50
RE 61807: Care to elucidate?
RE 61808: What a lame reply.
Message: 61814
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hawley & Adkins
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 07:20:32
All I can say is, I have such a boring life, I'm glad I can live vicariously
through you guys.
Message: 61815
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Taranto/last
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 08:10:02
Here again, I doubt you have such a boring life! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61816
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Religion Editors
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 10:49:28
Well, the ones before Ms. Perkes may have been wanting, but I find her work
to be excellent. I noticed a marked change during the few weeks she was out
during the summer - and since there was no comment about her absence, I was
worried that she'd gone to another paper.
Message: 61817
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/James's life
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 10:50:53
I suggest you fly to DC to find out just how boring James's life is. The
high point of his week is to use his key to the Foundation's video room and
watch silly tapes on the Federal Tax system that were made (with our tax
money) for showing to high school students.
Message: 61818
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 14:25:37
Re: "RE 61808: What a lame reply."
If it is a lame reply when I say it, what do you call it when you say it?
Message: 61819
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Adkins
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 19:33:14
You have accused me of all sorts of attrocities. If I posted a transcript
of the tapes as requested, it would indeed clear me of all your imagined
harms.
Again I NEVER said I destroyed the tape. You *ordered* me to, but I never
responded. And yes, it is best to let mad dogs lie, but you responded to my
truthful response to your question, and I felt obligated to tell the truth.
I will think about posting a transcript of the tapes in the next few days.
I will make them available to the people that have requested them, if I do
decide to make them available. I have nothing to hide in this regard.
Message: 61820
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hawley/Adkins
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 19:59:09
My deepest apologies, gentlemen. I forgot that private lives are public
fodder. Carry on.
As for you, Mr. Burkett: an excellent suggestion.
HB
Message: 61821
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 19:59:52
Sorry I offended your sensibilities by allowing my sensibilities to be
offended. Who the hell are YOU to post your opinion about my post? What,
do you run this board?
HB
Message: 61822
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 21:47:51
MLK slept with half the women he ever met... Common knowlege back then
before he died. Suddenly he is now some sort of hero to the world. In my
book he was a trouble maker and got what he deserved!
There have been many great black people in history. They did not
instigate riots and preach morals that they could not live by themselves.
WE have a MLK day here for political reasons only. And the MLK day has been
passed in most states so they can say... "Look what we politicians did for
you black people".... Political hog wash to get black votes!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61823
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeff Beck
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 22:13:50
If you feel these tapes are offensive and a source of grief...
I feel then they should NOT be posted and hope James will not do so.
I have NEVER heard the tapes... so I did not know. James made it a point to
not let me hear them or even to discuss them with me. A wise choice on his
part. I know these have not been played at GT's or are they even talked
about. I know from a SysOp's view point...James has tried to halt the
spread of this info from the start.... You could not see this (Jeff), but
I know for the most part...James was sincere and did tell the truth.
I also wish to tell the users, the name of Mark Adkins was locked
out of use, because some people were logging in under it entering misleading
posts. Not because Mark Adkins was a bad user.... On the contrary, I miss
this intelligent person as a $tatus user.... and even still to this day,
wish he would reconsider and become a member.
James has admitted to me the 'JOKE' was in bad taste...and that he
has learned by it. Everyone makes a mistake now and then... (And if you ask
me, James has had more than his share)... but he meant no harm and just for
a fleeting moment, thought it was funny!
Peace! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61824
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul...
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 22:32:07
So, you suggest we let DeConcini go though with his house bill to
unarm us? We have tried to confront him...he will not talk to us, as he
had said his mind was made up. However...because of the recall, he is now
considering that his bill may not be acceptable. I see Paul, you have put a
$$$ price $$$ on a recall election. What about the price we paid for our
rights with BLOOD? Does that mean anything to you? Save the dollars and
spill the blood instead in another 30 years when we finally wake up and go
get our rights back by force.
Excuse me, but Mr Mecham has many Black and Hispanic friends... I
might even guess.... more then you do! My brother Bob was seated right
behind Mr. Mecham during the trial. (by the way, he was proven innocent of
all charges... a FACT you seem to not want to hear or see). Anyway,
Brother Bob and his wife told us what was heard at the trial...was not the
same thing they would read in the paper the next day. They would not have
believed it if they were not there. Mr Mecham was black balled by powers
you do not understand Paul, but you see Mr Mecham in the light they want you
to see him.
I would like to say... I have many Mormon friends...and would never
label a person by his religion, even if I forgot his name.
Tisk tisk..... Pauly!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61825
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on carbon
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 22:35:01
I am pleased to accept a 'Copy' of the post you sent to Ann on the
freedom to post... Thank you....
Message: 61826
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Last/ Ladies?
Date: 10/29/89 Time: 22:41:14
Excuse me ladies.... 'I' run this board.... Hmmmmm Better make
that 'Sandy and I' run this board.... And EVERYONE is entitled to their
views.... Understood!?
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61827
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on Mecham
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 01:36:54
Regardless of perceived truths or plastic veneer, the soil will
come out in the almighty wash.
Falsehood, fortunately, is finite.
Message: 61828
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob 61818
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 03:05:04
Bob, that was an even lamer reply than your first. Why don't you try
responding to the content of my messages instead of parroting my words back
at me. Also, tell me about George Washinton Carver. I admit I don't know
what he did.
Message: 61829
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 03:13:05
Oh, I see, Cliff. Because Martin Luther King slept with a lot of women,
that makes him a rapist. Good one.
Nobody ever said he led a spotless, perfect life. Learn to separate one
part of his life (what he did for the black rights movement) from another
part (his sexual promiscuity). Lots of great politicians and artists had
questionable lifestyles -- does that mean that what they did is any less
of an achievement?
You're dead wrong when you say that MLK instigated riots. If you'd
listen to what he said in most of his speeches, you'd realize that what he
preached was *passive resistance* -- a non-violent objection to racism. You
may be confusing Martin Luther King Jr. with Malcolm X. Don't.
Again, you tell me that there are many other blacks who are more
deserving of a holiday. Again, I ask: Who?
One last comment. You say that you feel Martin Luther King "got what
he deserved" when he was shot. That's really cool, dude. Did John
Kennedy (who was not morally perfect) deserve to have half his head blown
off in Dallas, as well?
Message: 61830
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Adkins
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 04:08:14
My only wish is that you had threatened to kill me as well.
Message: 61831
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 06:06:44
In the first place, you are condemning DeConcini as a senator because of his
position on one issue, and one alone. Since this is an issue that is close
to your heart, I can understand your thinking, but if you could look at your
statements objectively, you wold see that they are rather one-sided. As to
the issue itself, the NRA has one of the strongest lobbies in Washington,
and if DeConcini's bill is as restrictive as you say it is, it is highly
doubtful that it will go anywhere. It is certainly not cause for a recall
election. The man has still done a lot of good for the people of Arizona in
the years he has represented us in congress.
As to Mecham, we obviously disagree as to his worthlessness, and neither of
us is going to change the other's mind. At any rate, he is a dead issue
politically in Arizona, even if he doesn't want to lie down yet, and not
worth the arguing. My purpose in identifying the idiot who instigated the
MLK petitions as a Mormon had less to do with his religious beliefs than it
did with the fact that he was so identified by reason of his letter to the
head of the Mormon church. My comment was for the purpose of identifying the
individual, and not a condemnation of Mormons in general. I, too, have
Mormon friends Cliff. So what? That fact neither justiffies the errors in
Mormonism, nor does their belief lessen our friendship. Now please don't
make the error of saying that I have condemned Mormons on this BBS in the
past, when that is simply a lie and you know it. I have indeed criticized
what I consider to be errors in the Mormon belief system, but have not
condemned and individuals because of their adherence to that system. Kindly
stop putting words in my mouth or thoughts in my mind that aren't there.
Message: 61832
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak/Kennedy
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 06:12:41
I think it was John F. Kennedy, the president, who got his in Dallas.
RObert got his backstage somewhere else. (Washington?) Actually, none of the
Kennedy clan was morally spotless, but it didn't seem to affect their job
performance much, although it seems that Ted's little night of fun at
Chappaquidick sort of did him in politically, at least on the national
scene.
Message: 61833
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ms. Brown
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 08:08:19
You did not simply suggest that they take their argument elsewhere, you
demanded it! Paul said about the same thing, but in an entirely different
manor. You came on like gang buster's, he did not!
Who in the hell am I to post my opinion about your post? I am a paying
member that has been on this board for over two years without missing a day.
I have the same right as you have to express my opinions and comment on
other's. Cliff & Sandy run this board! No one else!
Message: 61834
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 12:52:06
The idiot you speak of is Julian Sanders, a person of some prominence in the
Mormon religion. Many Mormons believe that black people are cursed by God
because they are "descendants of Cain."
Message: 61835
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Answer!
Subject: Zak
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 12:53:37
George Washington Carver invented peanut butter.
Message: 61837
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James Hawley
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 13:26:29
You CAN have it your way, James. I've made it clear that I don't want this
done, so you make your choice.
Message: 61839
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak on Kennedy
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 15:09:53
I did not like the Kennedys , so I did not get upset when he was
blown away. Besides, it was JOHN Kennedy who got it in Dallas, not Robert.
I should tell you what other blacks would have been better suited,
and you don't even know who George Washington Carver was? What do they
teach you in school now days? Carver was an American educator, scientist,
and author.... Geesh.. my boys knew that!
MLK was said to have raped several women in his day... not during
the last few years of his life however when he was on his moral trip. I did
not confuse King with Malcom X. You are the one confused....
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61840
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul?
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 15:41:09
I did not say you condemned Mormons in the past? Where did you read
that CRAP? YOU are the one who is bringing up the issue on Mormons??? So
do not point your biggoted finger at me and say I am putting words into your
mouth. You even went so far as to say it is a "LIE" and I know it as if I
had said it already???? Talk about putting words in someones mouth.....
I don't give a darn if you do not like Mecahm... the man was PROVEN
innocent of ALL charges and deserves to be called by his correct name even
if you don't like his politics!
As for DeConcini... you wrongly have accused me of being upset over
a single issue! Years ago I was upset with him over his role in the give
away of the Panama Canal. And...his unforgivable assault on Judge Bork,
where by innuendo and half truth he slandered an honorable man. His Land
Dealings (Questionable) Re: the C.A.P. and others...that have been
discussed on APOLLO. His introduction of legislation to WEAKEN THE CRIMINAL
CODES OF THE RACKETEERING ACT to prevent the prosecution of criminals, and
the release of those previously convicted and in jail now. The Lincoln
Thrift affair and his assault on the SECOND AMENDMENT are only a new page in
the DeConcini recall effort! Get with it Paul.... you are not up on
politics beyond what the Repulsive tells you!
Yes...I know he bought you with a favor, so he is a WONDERFUL man in
your eyes!
Now take a 'GRIN' pill and call me in the morning! Cliffer!!!!!!
Message: 61841
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:15:37
Re: "Suddenly he is now some sort of hero to the world."
It is because he was martyred. If he were still alive, no one would have
even considered him for a holiday.
Message: 61842
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:17:12
Re: "If you feel these tapes are offensive and a source of grief..."
The tapes sound like good "soap" material. Put them on a sig for "soap"
fans.
Message: 61843
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:23:08
Re: "that was an even lamer reply than your first."
I'm sorry; I don't do to well against name calling.
Re: "Why don't you try responding to the content of my messages"
Ok. I'll try harder not to give you lame replys.
Re: "tell me about George Washinton Carver"
Rather then type out a lot of info about GWC, please consult an
encyclopedia.
Message: 61844
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:36:06
Re: "Because Martin Luther King slept with a lot of women"
I think what Cliff and I object to is the lack of moral integrity on the
part of MLK. If a man cheats on his wife, he will probably cheat in other
areas as well. If a man is going to hold some kind of political clout or
any position of authority or leadership, I would like to think he will not
cheat when given an opportunity. Therefore in my opinion, MLK doesn't
qualify for any holiday.
What is it our country was looking for? Was it a "Black" holiday, or was it
a "Civil Rights" holiday? Personally I think the politicians were looking
for a "Black" holiday to show how unbiased and up to date, and fair, and so
into equal rights. They in effect were saying, "See how righteous we are?
We made a Black holiday! And so fast too!"
Give me a break. Arizona did it a little different. They passed the MLK
holiday only after they were continually threatened with convention
boycotts. It was motivated by greed (love of money). I would venture to
say if the MLK holiday was put to popular vote, it would not exist.
Message: 61845
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:41:04
Re: "The man has still done a lot of good for the people of Arizona in
the years he has represented us in congress."
In times passed, yes. But now he seems more interested in lining his
pockets and the pockets of friends. He has lost his good judgement. I did
not vote for him in the past election, and I will not vote for him in the
future. The story is so common. A man gets elected with all the good
intentions in the world. After a few terms he gets greedy. The old story
continues to ring true. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts
absolutely.
Message: 61846
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:43:43
Re: "Many Mormons believe that black people are cursed by God
because they are "descendants of Cain.""
But haven't you heard? They changed their minds! They got a "special"
revelation straight from the Almighty!
Message: 61847
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:45:58
Re: "George Washington Carver invented peanut butter."
I think that is a very significant invention! Do you realize how much
peanut butter is consumed today? We run through a pound jar a week just in
my family. I got three growing boys.
Message: 61848
Author: James Allison
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: EMPLOYMENT
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 16:55:03
Earn up to 339.84 per week
assembling our products at
home. An amazing recorded
message reveals details!
Call today! 493-5527
Message: 61849
Author: $ Todd Reese
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 17:35:12
Shucks! I need $339.85 per week.
Message: 61850
Author: $ Todd Reese
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Michael James 61834
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 17:50:43
You speak of Julian Sanders as "a person of some prominence in the Mormon
religion." This is true to the extent that many of us Mormons are shocked
by what Mr. Sanders presents as "Mormon Doctrine," when in fact it is
nothing more than his strange interpretation of scripture. Personally, I
think Mr. Sanders is a fruitcake.
As to your phrase, "Many Mormons believe that black people are cursed by God
because they are 'descendants of Cain.'" I don't know if "many" would
qualify here. Some Mormons may believe that. Many LDS believe that black
skin is the "sign" of the curse on the descendants of Cain. However, this
is all what I like to call "Mormon member speculation." There is no
"Mormon Doctrine" on the origin of black skin, and the LDS Church DOES NOT
teach that black people are cursed by God.
Message: 61851
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 18:27:37
I think the death penalty is a bit excessive for adultery, and even if it
were to be imposed, King was denied due process of the law.
Message: 61852
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 18:28:01
Do not insult Heather Brown, or I shall be forced to kill you.
Message: 61853
Author: Jack Smith
Category: Question?
Subject: James H.
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 19:10:00
All questions of your penitence aside, I question the act of provoking
someone whom you assert to be dangerously deranged. Either you don't
believe your own statement, or you do and your own rationality is called
into question.
Message: 61854
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Robert Kennedy
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 20:28:04
... was shot in Los Angeles. Come on, Paul? Where were you? I was *young*
then!
Message: 61855
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/Kennedy's
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 20:31:56
Wait just a minute, Cliff! You didn't feel bad that somebody blew away the
PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES? You didn't feel bad that somebody took the
election system into their own hands and blew away a CANDIDATE for the
presidency? Just because he wasn't "your man" ???
You know, the flag is a symbol on the level of the President in this
country. Yet, I'll bet you get upset if somebody burns a FLAG that they
bought with their own money. Why should you care? IT ISN'T YOUR FLAG!
Message: 61856
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: MLK Holidayu
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 20:35:38
Bob, if he were still alive, we'd wait until he was dead of old age before
we'd put his name on a holiday. Think about it.
Message: 61857
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dog
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 21:37:24
Re: "if he were still alive, we'd wait until he was dead"
You're right in that I stated it incorrectly. Let me say it again but this
correctly.
If MLK would have died of natural causes, he would not be honored with a
holiday. Of course, this is just my humble opinion.
Message: 61858
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: News Today
Subject: Ms. Brown
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 21:46:44
Well I see that Ms. Brown has lock me out of the Void SIG. I feel bad about
that. It seems that she explained one had to be a member for 5 years in
order to be qualified to be a member. I still don't get that. If I had
been a bad boy on her SIG, I would understand why I would be thrown off, but
such is not the case. My Mom told me life wasn't fair. May God rest her
soul. You win Ms. Brown! I hope you are happy. I bear you no malice. I'm
looking forward to meeting you in person at a future GT. You got me
curious.
Message: 61859
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Entertainment/Movies
Subject: The Abyss
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 21:52:59
I took the wife to see "The Abyss" tonight. It is a high adventure, cliff
hanger type movie. My recommendation, go see it if you like that kind of
movie. There was some profanity. That's probably why it got the PG-13
rating. No drugs; no sex.
Message: 61860
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Cliff/MLK
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 22:02:34
I don't see how you can say that MLK "got what he deserved"? What a cruel
thing to say. Even if the man had his faults, and slept with women other
than his wife, why death? I believe that he was fighting for what he
thought was right, not trying to incite riots.
Message: 61861
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: B-Dog on the Pres...
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 22:48:15
Okay, I was a little harsh on the Kennedys and even MLK...
They did not deserve death just because I was not a fan of theirs. I was
shocked that someone would assassinate the President... and I felt anger
about it. I was even sorry to hear MLK got it...but did not get upset over
the fact since I saw him as a phony and a trouble maker. (My opinion)
I do respect the office of the President, however to me the FLAG means more
than any one person. It is not the material value of the flag, but for
what it stands for.... no matter who purchased it.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61862
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: STATE FAIR
Date: 10/30/89 Time: 23:58:52
A 29 year old woman was found strangled to death in a 55 gallon drum on
the last day of the fair.
Either she was sexually promiscuous or had heard the Adkins/Hawley
tapes. Obviously.
Now, of course, I want to know all the dirt on this dead woman. Can
someone fill me in? If I read the details in the paper, however, it will
only prove my point that the media is a collective pack of bloodthirsty
hounds who get a thrill out of human misery all the while disguising it in
the flimsy dressing of "free speech".
I'm glad us regular folks aren't like that. Whew.
So, how many women DID the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sleep with? I
want names, dammit. And a list of all positions used. Too bad he spent so
much time fighting for equal rights and all. Maybe if he were poking some
lady that day he wouldn't have gotten shot, and he could have stuck around
to give the media more lurid tales to throw in the mill. Not that I'd
believe what the no-good media said anyway. Not that it would stop me from
posting it as heresay years later.
Jes' the facts, mam. Amen & Good night.
Message: 61863
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul 61832
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 00:54:18
You're absolutely right. John F. Kennedy. Dumb mistake.
Message: 61864
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff 61839
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 01:03:34
I know that it was John Kennedy. I was thinking the right man, but not
the right name.
Please spare yourself the superiority trip in thinking that because I
do not know who G.W. Carver is, I was not properly educated. Why are you so
eager to put an element of insult into your messages? Don't you have any
emotional control? Can you separate what I am saying from who I am?
It is bewildering that you claim to have been so indifferent to JFK's
murder. Whether or not you liked the man, it was a sad event. The way you
describe it, one would think you enjoyed it.
Why do you lapse into comments such as "You are the one who is
confused," when up until now, we could have been having a completely
decent, mud-less debate? There was no malicious intent in my comment that
perhaps you had confused MLK with Malcolm X.
Your allegations that MLK may have raped some women are pure B.S.
What makes all of this worse is your position on flag-burning. You
strongly imply that you feel a burned flag is worse than a murdered man.
Spooky. You rave over "what [the flag] stands for," but it seems that you
don't know. It symbolizes a lot of ideas, yes -- including the right to
object to one's own government (which is how our country started, right?)
Get it straight, Cliff: The flag symbolizes freedom. To burn an
American flag is a freedom. Therefore, the act of burning a flag is
a stronger expression of freedom than, say, just to wave it. Understand?
Message: 61865
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 61844
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 01:07:06
Bob, if you look very closely, you will find that there is no name-
calling in my messages to you.
I'm sorry you aren't willing to make the effort to write anything about
George Washington Carver. I will consult an encyclopedia.
(Though it would've been nice to think that you have something to offer
in terms of sharing your knowledge. I guess an atmosphere of learning is
too much to ask from a BBS.)
I disagree on your point about moral integrity. I won't defend MLK for
being an adulterer, but I think it's a completely separate issue. His
private life is not my concern. His influence, and the power of his
speeches, are.
You may be right in saying that politicians are using the holiday to get
votes. I don't care. That's not what I'm arguing. My initial argument is
that MLK is more deserving of a holiday than Christopher Columbus.
Part of the argument is based on a
lesser-of-two-evils philosophy: MLK was imperfect, but a lot less
imperfect than C.C. I also argue that MLK's influence is a lot stronger
than C.C.'s, and the ideas he represented are worthy of rememberance,
possibly through a holiday.
But hey, I'm no MLK freak. Find me a morally ideal man who had a stronger
social impact than MLK, then I'll argue to give him a holiday. I don't
know if George Washington Carver would be this man -- his name seems to
provoke more images of peanut butter than of racial equality. But hey,
that's fine. Skippy Day. It's perfect. Racial equality and high protein.
Message: 61866
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: War!
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 02:43:06
A person who waves an American flag is, in essence, saying, "Look at
me! I'm so free that I can wave my flag! Look at me wave it! Oh boy!"
A person who BURNS an American flag is, in essence, saying, "Look at
me! I'm so free that I can BURN my flag! And it's LEGAL! Oh boy! Heh
heh!"
Which of the above patriots is TRULY freer? Please answer honestly.
Message: 61868
Author: Ralph Moffin
Category: Joke
Subject: TO ALL DUMB PATRIOTS
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 03:08:31
"I plead alignment
to the flakes
of the untitled
snakes of
a merry
cow --
...and to the
republicans
for which
they scam...
-- one nacho,
underpants,
with licorice
and jugs of
wine for
owls."
Message: 61869
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Michael James
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 05:17:02
Thank you for reminding me of the idiot's name, as well as one o the tenets
of the Mormon faith with which I disagree, since it has no scriptural
foundation. In the future I shall call Sanders by name should the occasion
arise, which I hope it doesn't, since his actions hardly deserve the
attention they seem to get.
Message: 61870
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 05:21:40
Your head is made up on some things. It is useless to try to confuse you
with facts, so I won't try. Havagooday.
Message: 61871
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/DeConcici
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 05:31:03
How very true, and how very sad that we cannot elect and maintain an
"honest" politician. Power does indeed corrupt, and there doesn't seem to be
any exeptions. What, then, do we do? Go with the experience and it's
accompanying influence, or keep electing neophyytes who have no clout in the
hallowed halls until they, too, have been corrupted? It seems that Sen.
McCain, a freshman Senator, has already had his hands in the cookie jar on
the Keating affair, and perhaps even more so than DeConcini. At least
DeConcini has returned the Keating money. McCain has not.
Basically, what I said at the beginning of this discussion was that the
only way to look at a politician is with the supposition that they are ALL
dishonest and disreputable, and put those issues aside to concentrate on the
overall good they have done or can do for the people they represent. It's a
bag of worms no matter what we do, and the choice is narrow. We either keep
the corrupted ones we know, or elect new ones to be corrupted. Either way
the system wins and we lose. Great process, huh?
Message: 61872
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: B. Dog/Kennedy
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 05:36:23
THanks for the correction. L.A. is correct, of course. You have to remember
that I get on this BBS very early in the morning, before I have even
finished my first cupa coffee. The brain isn't quite fully awake. (I still
remembered that it wasn't Robert who was blown away in Dallas though. Give
me credit for that?)
Message: 61873
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: On Taranto
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 07:28:44
I want everyone to noticed message #61852 where JT has threatened me. If I
end up dead, he will be the one that did it!
BTW JT - who is Heather Brown that she can't be insulted? I insult you all
the time. Are you less of a person? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61874
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob on the Void
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 07:40:09
As I've mentioned, I've been a member here for the last two years and still
do not understand 'The Void'! I was on it last year when James H. was
running it - we had a story going that was lots of fun. When it was over,
Cliff shut it down. I guess what I don't understand is how someone, that has
been away for at least two years that I know of, can breeze back in and tell
who can and who can't be in one of the sigs. and she doesn't do it very
nicely either. I admit that my nose is a little bent out of shape, but I too
bear no malace towards anyone nor hold any resentments. It's just the way it
is and I except that. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61875
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Zak
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 10:22:33
Where did I say "A burned Flag is worse than a murdered man"?
Talk about mud slinging...
And where did I say "I enjoyed Mr Kennedy's assassination"?
Talk about more mud slinging...
What the FLAG represents is more important than any one man!
Many men lost their lives defending the symbol (the Flag)... Are you trying
to tell us they wasted their lives, Zak?
Again, you are confused Zakky! Re-Read my posts... and tell me the
message numbers where I said what you say I said. Facts Zak..I want facts!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61876
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Zak on freer?
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 10:46:12
A person who waves an American flag is, in essence, saying, "Look at
me! I'm so free that I can wave my flag! Look at me wave it! Oh boy!"
A person who kills an American citizen is, in essence, saying, "Look
at me! I'm so free that I can kill! Look at me kill! Oh boy!"
Which of the above is TRULY freer? Please answer honestly.
Your question makes about as much sense as the above. It is not legal to
burn a flag as of this post.... Just as it is not legal to murder. I will
say I would rather have someone burn their flag and break the law then to
take a shot at someone, killing that person. But both are illegal, even
though flag burning does not physically hurt anyone. However what you fail
to understand is "Respect" one gives to the flag because so many lost their
lives defending it. After being in the military myself, I have a high
respect for the flag.... more so now, then I did before my military service.
The flag is made of cloth.... No real value in the cloth... The flag is a
symbol, and that has value. The burning of what America stands for offends
me!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61877
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 11:04:41
You have never posted a fact.... You don't have any knowlege of
facts.. just your own self righteous hate of others for no reason at all.
You attacked me on the recall of a senator, saying it was all for only one
issue... I posted several issues... then you have the gal to tell me I am
confused?
You accuse me of saying I said "You hate Mormons" when all I said
was it is not nice to address one by their religion.
I gave you a fact that Mecham was found NOT GUILTY on all charges
and you refuse to read it or answer it.... because you HATE the man with a
burning HATE from within yourself!
Then you tell me you have facts..... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha that is
the most ridicules thing you have ever said!
I will foward your FACTs if you dare post them to Mr Mecham himself
along with all your other posts.
Oh yes...you once did post your FACTs on why guns should be taken
away from American citizens. After seeing your level of facts.... ha ha ha
I am off to take a laugh control pill as I am rolling on the floor!
P.S. When is the next PIE GT?
Message: 61878
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: McCain/DeConcini
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 11:12:05
Yes, DeConcini has said he returned the Keating money. DeConcini is
a multi millionaire with all that C.A.P. land deal money he collected.
And poor McCain now has to figure out how to return his use of the Keating
Corporate Jet..... not as easy as returning money... How do you undo a jet
flight?
DeConcini is deeper into Mr Keating than McCain. Just to make this
clear... I am NOT for Mr McCain either.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61879
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: The SYSOP Speaks
Subject: Arguments are FUN!
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 11:23:44
Yes, Arguments are FUN, or at least it seems so. More users log in
when we are having them. ?? But let us not get carried away by getting ones
"Nose a little bent out of shape" as Ann puts it. I fully expect that if
Heather Brown was to show up at a GT, Ann would get along with her as I do
with say, Paul Savage. Paul and I have never gotten to FISTs (yet) ha ha
For you new users...we have never had a fist fight at an Apollo GT, so
please, when you hear about a GT....do NOT be afraid of coming! We are more
mild mannered in person. Words on a BBS are to get ATTENTION!
Understood? I hope so! (I hate getting beat up by my users)
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61880
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/last
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 11:41:32
Yes, I might get along with Ms. Brown if I met her at a GT - but she'd have
to be more friendly for me to do so. Paul is/was! I can't see where she has
been friendly to anyone here. Does she save the nice side of her persona for
the void? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61881
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: The SYSOP Speaks
Subject: $tatus Sale..
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 11:51:42
This is the LAST day for those who might like to take advantage of
the $tatus Membership 1/2 price SALE! That is a full year for $6.00 over
the regular cost of $12.00. That is only 50 cents per month... But the
application will have to be post marked by Midnight tonight (10/31/89).
Anything after that will be rejected!
See the <$>cmd in the ain menu for other info.
This is for anyone who dose not have current $tatus!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61882
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peter
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 13:45:42
Re: "So, how many women DID the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sleep with? I
want names, dammit."
You are going to have to wait about 50 years. A federal judge sealed all
the FBI records on MLK for 50 years. At the time it was feared the FBI
records would cause a big stir on the then recently inacted MLK holiday.
Message: 61883
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 13:47:29
Re: "I do not know who G.W. Carver is, I was not properly educated."
Hmmmmm.
Message: 61884
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 13:58:43
Please forgive me for not writing a short biography on GWC. I just don't
have the time. I'm sure you will find adequate coverage in any number of
encyclopedias. On the matter of "moral integrity", you're saying that a man
who will cheat in his private life, will have no more inclination to cheat
in his public life then a man who does not cheat in his private life?
Re: "MLK is more deserving of a holiday than Christopher Columbus."
Well, I disagree. I am willing to agree for you to disagree.
Re:"MLK's influence is a lot stronger than C.C.
There is quite a time span between the two. In another 500 years who is to
say that MLK will have any influence at all?
Message: 61885
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 14:01:08
It will be interesting to see your reaction when a Democrat Mormon runs for
office. Something like sweet and sour?
Message: 61886
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 14:06:59
Re: "What, then, do we do?"
I think a step in the right direction would be to have limited terms of
office for all political positions instead of just president. We will never
eliminate corruption in government, but limited terms would help. The
biggest problem is the people. The people are the ones responsible for
voting. I remember a while back a congressmen named Clayton Powell (that
might not be just right). He was thrown out of office by congress for a
variety of offences. But the people of his state voted him right back in
again. It makes you wonder.
Message: 61887
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 14:10:40
Re: "who is Heather Brown that she can't be insulted?"
She is the same who threw me off of the Void sig. I'm not going to say
anything more until I get a chance to make her acquaintance. Maybe she is
not as bad as her bark.
Message: 61888
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 14:13:39
Re: "P.S. When is the next PIE GT?"
Shhhhhh! Don't say that on the public board! It will cause a riot!
Message: 61889
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 14:15:33
Re: "For you new users...we have never had a fist fight at an Apollo GT"
Are you saying that our bark is worse than our bite?
Message: 61890
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: All/Spaz
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 14:35:26
The Void was Spaz Brown's SIG 4 or 5 years ago. When she was logging on it
was hers. When she could no longer log on, she passed SIGopship to me. I
let people who weren't on originally to try to liven the board up.
The SIG did die down and was made invisible until she came back. A lot of
the newcomers really don't know Spaz. She really hasn't gotten on regularly
since October of 1984. You will find her a very interesting
conversationalist, and an amiable person.
But it always was her SIG. She considers it her demesnes. And only people
she knows are allowed in. She may let people in at a later date, but the
choice is all hers.
Message: 61891
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Oudin
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 18:06:53
Hawley is lying. The truth about Heather Brown is known only to those of us
in the Inner Circle. Yours is not to question why.
Message: 61892
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 18:07:10
Are you saying we aren't free to wave an American flag?
Message: 61893
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Halloween
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 18:46:12
Have a fun safe night... Watch out for the goblins and other
ghouls....... ha ha ha ha and wicked SysOps!
And most of all... watch out for Annie the ASSp on her broom!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61894
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: returning money
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 20:46:44
I agree that politicians should get rid of tainted money, but why should
they return it to the crook? I mean, the{last thing that I want is for
Keating, et al, to get there hands back on hundreds of thousands of dollars.
How about we get them to give it to the US govt to retire the debt? Or
give it to one of my favorite charities???
Message: 61895
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/Abyss
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 20:47:00
Let's hear it for Cliff-hangers ...
Message: 61896
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Heather Brown
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 20:53:03
Has anyone else noticed that Sandy is gone now that Heather is back?
Does *this* explain what kind of hold Ms. Brown has over SYSOP Cliff?
As I recall, there was a phone call to Heather and she told you to let some
new people in, "except for Peter"
Message: 61897
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Bulletins
Subject: SHOP CMD
Date: 10/31/89 Time: 22:31:13
People should check out the SHOP cmd in the ain menu now and
then. We have added some *new* services.
For people who like pet fish.. we have added a very friendly place
called 'Aquatic Professionals'... We shop there!
Need a "Clown"? for a party? Try 'Freddie Freckles'....
Need a Machine Shop? Milling machine work...Lathe work... Just
give Gemini a call...
The above shops along with many others can be found in the SHOP cmd.
You can search though them all with an '*' or you can search out a string,
such as CLOWN, FISH, DENTIST, MACHINE, GUN, LAW, VCR and other key words.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61898
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thornburg 61883
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 01:38:52
Don't take my words out of context.
What is the big deal that I don't know much about G. W. Carver? I had the
honesty to admit that I didn't know about ONE historical person, and I got
jumped on.
I didn't ask for a biography on him, but I did ask that you at least tell me
something of what you know. You ought to at least have some imformation
that can enlighten me. Or are you content to sit back and go "hmmm,"
taking cheap shots? As I said before, if you go back and read my messages
to you, it should become obvious that I did not engage in any name-calling,
implicit or otherwise. I hate people who put others down for a small
admission of ignorance on one topic, but then have absolutely nothing to
share of their knowledge. YOU obviously must know a lot more than I do
about G.W. Carver, since you're so happily smug about the whole thing. Why
can't you tell me anything about him? I have to assume, if you don't, you
are ignorant yourself.
Why is Columbus more deserving of a holiday? You saw the message I wrote
about what he did; it was factual (and if you don't believe me, consult an
encyclopedia...) Obviously he was more apt to cheat than MLK. So what is
your rationale?
Message: 61899
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 01:50:09
Oooh, WOW, Cliff, you really caught me on your last message. What a sharp
thinker! Please note that in previous messages, I have not engaged in any
mud-slinging towards you. However, I'm going to throw caution to the wind,
because you're such a dork.
First of all, you incorrectly quote me. Cliff, you must learn that if you
quote somebody, you're supposed to do it verbatim. Do you know what
verbatim means, Cliff? It means word-for-word, you doddering fool. The
phrases you put in quotes and called "mine" were nothing more than poor
excuses for paraphrases.
For example: I never said, "You enjoyed Mr. Kennedy's assasination." I
said, "The way you describe it, one would think you enjoyed it." There is a
world of difference there, you senile bag of lard. I wasn't making a
factual judgment as to whether or not you enjoyed it, I was describing my
impression of you. In message 61839, you specifically said, and I quote:
"I did not like the Kennedys , so I did not get upset when he was blown
away." FACT 1: Cliff didn't like JFK. FACT 2: Cliff wasn't upset when he
died. FACT 3: Cliff describes his tragic death in casual terms, such as
"blown away" -- this description of a gunshot to the head denotes no
sympathy or sorrow. Therefore, Cliff, there is nothing wrong with my
feeling that you got some sort of satisfaction over the event. Of course,
it is only a feeling, and as such it cannot be judged right or wrong. So I
am completely in-line in this regard.
Message: 61900
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Moron Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 02:01:11
In regards to your question, "Where did I say 'A burned flag is worse than a
murdered man'?," I did not quote you as saying that. Pay attention for once
in your whimsical life. I didn't say those were your WORDS. I did say that
that IDEA CAME ACROSS in your message. If you will look at your message
61861, I will explain it for you, OK? The subject in this message was the
deaths of MLK and JFK. Then you went on to say, "I do respect the office of
the President [meaning, in this case, JFK], however to me the FLAG means
more than any one person [JFK]." In other words, the protection of the
flag, to you, is more important than the death of, say, President Kennedy.
My impression follows logically from your message. I worded it this way:
"You strongly imply that you feel a burned flag is worse than a murdered
man." Again, this statement follows. I did not quote you. I suggested an
implication. Cliff, don't you understand how quotes work in the English
language? Geesh, my boys know that! (And I don't even have boys!)
So, to conclude: I was not mud-slinging in my previous messages to you.
You would love to think I was, but it was merely the result of your own
inability to properly interpret my messages. It should have been easy to
do, but I guess not for you, Cliff. You're a very foolish man, if I do say
so myself. I may not know who G. W. Carver is, but AT LEAST I CAN GRASP
SOME OF THE SIMPLEST CONCEPTS OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!
Message: 61901
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 02:09:32
Here's a quote. Cliff said it. It's verbatim. It's in context.
"Many men lost their lives defending the symbol (the Flag)... Are you
trying to tell us they wasted their lives, Zak?"
Good question, Cliff. But first, who were these men who sacrificed
themselves for a piece of cloth? I could easily understand it if they were
fighting to protect their country, or something like that, but to die to
save a FLAG? Who were these idiots? Yes, I'd say they wasted their lives.
Here's another quote.
"Again, you are confused Zakky. Facts Zak...I want facts!"
I'm not sure what your point was with that, but you're scaring me.
Another quote: "The burning of what America stands for offends me!"
That's absurd. To burn a symbol (the flag) is not equal to burning
what the symbol is supposed to mean. The meaning is what counts. Whatever
object symbolizes that meaning is trivial. AGAIN, YOU ARE CONFUSED. The
freedom itself is more important than the symbol of freedom. Get it through
your head, okay? AGAIN, YOU ARE CONFUSED. The flag is a nice symbol, but
people like you have turned it into a symbol of blind patriotism and Morton
Downy Jr.-esque hysteria. AGAIN, YOU ARE CONFUSED.
Message: 61902
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 02:20:42
Cliff, the saddest thing about your messages is that their factual
information to emotions-run-amok ratio is so God-awful. I ask a few simple
questions, and I'll be lucky if you even reply to one of them.
For example, in message 61822 you claim that "There have been many great
black people in history." I do not dispute this statement, but I did ask,
"Who?" You did not submit a single name. The only black man who has been
mentioned is G. W. Carver, and that was by Bob Thornburger.
Also, I asked you to substantiate the claim that MLK was a rapist. You
couldn't. But instead of admitting you might be wrong, you just weaken your
claim a little bit, as in message #61822: "MLK slept with half the women he
ever met..." THAT's your reasoning behind saying he was a rapist? What are
you, some kind of moron? What did they teach you in school back then?
Cliff, you talk yourself into corners and then you mud-sling your way out by
confusing the issues, making straw-man cases, misquoting, and taking cheap,
insulting shots.
Message: 61903
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 02:30:53
RE: "Facts Zak...I want facts!" Okay, I'll give you even more facts --
facts that show how inane your written behavior has been. And on your own
BBS, no less.
Message 61822: "[Martin Luther King Jr.] was a trouble maker and got what
he deserved [when he was assassinated]!"
Message 61839: "I did not like the Kennedys, so I did not get upset when he
was blown away."
Message 61861: "I was shocked that someone would assassinate the
President... and I felt anger about it. I was even sorry to hear MLK got
it...but did not get upset over the fact..."
So which was it, Cliff? Were you upset when JFK was shot, or not? Which
message sounds more sincere? You get all emotional and the truth starts to
come out about your feelings, but when you start to realize that you may be
making yourself look like the reactionary gut-sucker you really are, you
start scurrying like a rat to cover yourself up. You ought to be ashamed of
yourself. You shimmering pile of hippopotamus feces.
But anyway. ARGUING IS FUN! I hope you don't take all this too seriously,
Cliff. It's all in good fun! Friends?
Lovingly,
Your little Zakky Muffin
Message: 61904
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Taranto
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 02:34:52
No, I wasn't saying that we aren't free to wave an American flag. I should
have made that more clear. I was just saying that the person who can burn a
flag has more freedom than a person who can't.
Message: 61905
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 02:46:25
Do you dislike blacks?
Message: 61906
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Cliff/Mecham
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 06:22:51
Mecham was found not guilty on ONE charge, and ONE ONLY, that being the one
the Senate refused to convict on in the impeachment trial. He was still
found guilty of high crimes, misdemeanors and malfeasance of office, more
than enough to remove him.
Now who's confused?
As to DeConcini, I will grant you every one of the points you made against
him. All of them put together form your opinion of his actions, and are not
enough to warrant a recall. As I said previously, if enough people feel as
you do concerning him, it should not be that difficult to replace him at the
next election, a much less expensive procedure.
Message: 61907
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: "Poor" McCain?
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 06:28:08
I only wish I could be that "poor"! I wouldn't mind having the ability to
buy that "shack" he purchased just prior to his election, just so wifey
could tear it apart and rebuild it to suit herself.
You don't necessarily "undo" a jet flight. You could pay for it, however,
much like the rest of us do if we choose to fly. Poor McCain could probably
scrape up a few bucks for transportation. He could always fudge on his
expense account, so that we magnanimous taxpayers could help the poor boy
out of his dilemma. (I wonder how I could steal a trip to the Bahamas. After
the hurricane season, of corse.)
Message: 61908
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 06:33:30
Interestingly enough, and probably unbelievable to you and Cliff, I do not
vote for candidates based on their political party affiliation OR their
religion. I vote as intelligently as possible, based on performance and
aparrent ability, as much as I can, and have voted for both Republicans and
Mormons in the past. No sweet and sour there. Just a non-sequiter.
Message: 61909
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 06:35:05
I have always supported a limited term for all offices, and still do. If
nothing else, it would at least reduce the potential for corruption.
Message: 61910
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau Dog
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 07:14:07
Sandy's gone? Hmmm ... then I wonder who that was over at my house the other
day? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61911
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/#61908
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 07:22:16
Re: your quote - "And have voted for both Republicans and Mormons in the
past" .... Hmmm .. I didn't know Mormons were now a political party! (grin)
BTW - I did not see the word Democrate in that message. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61912
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/void
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 07:24:04
Would you care to elaborate on why you were thrown out of the void? How were
you there in the first place when it's been shut down? Just curious.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61913
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Halloween
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 07:43:50
It was another fun filled Halloween night around my house. Yes, Cliff, I was
indeed a witch and a terrible looking one at that - my daughter was one
also, my grand daughter a 'couch potato' and grand son was a werewolf. We
take Halloween seriously! I managed to really scare about 4 little kids when
they came to the door. (made my night!) I have this horriable sounding tape
I play of grave yard sounds - I hide it in the front courtyard. This scared
a few too. Of course I had the usual jack-O-lanterns and black widow
spiders, etc. At about 8 o'clock we then went trick or treating ourselves. I
got about 5 lbs. of goodies before I got so tired that I had to turn back.
Bob ... I REALLY wanted to go to your house - had my spiel all ready - was
going to say after you dropped one piece of candy in my bag.. "Hey! Is this
all I get? One lousy piece of candy? Arn't you at least gonna offer me a
piece of pie?" But I just got so tired and it got late. You would absolutely
NOT have recognized me! One of my neighbors did not either - after excepting
the candy from one of their kids, I blatantly pushed past him and went into
the house raving "where in the heck is the booze? I don't want this stupid
candy"! The shocked face of this neighbor was worth a million when he saw
this big old ugly witch storming into his house. For a minute it looked like
he was going to get his gun! But I gave it away when I smiled and he
recognized my teeth. Ha ha. We did have a great time. We turn into kids
again once a year. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61914
Author: $ Gary Jones
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sleaze
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 09:29:40
I think we need another SIG, it could be called (CLI)FF-HANGERS SIG.
Also, After reading all this garbage between Hawley and Adkins/Beck, neither
of whom I have met, I feel that the 50% of Apollo users who don't know the
facts (sic) should get to read a transcription of the tapes and then we
could all have one of our famous Apollo votes and decide who was right! Not
that it would change anything.
But we'd need a category of "Who gives a $#!t"
**** Gary ****
Message: 61915
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Nick
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 09:50:54
I could kill you if you like. I realize that it doesn't have the same
romance, but it's an offer.
HB
Message: 61916
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:00:44
Darling, I have just as much a right to log on and "demand" (as you put it)
that Hawley and Adkins take their private brawl elsewhere instead of making
fools of themselves publicly as you have to declare your feelings about my
posting such a message.
Secondly, I imagine I am quite a bit nicer in person. It's always harder to
be nasty when you can see the person you're talking to.
Third, the Void is alive and (mostly) well. . . which is why Bob could get
kicked off. He was booted because he was let on illegally in the first
place. Qualifications for membership are that you were logging on at the
time that I was on regularly, with one exception: Sandy. (My alter ego.
You should see us -- we've got this act down. I can drink a glass of water
while she talks.) James pointed out that this might be a tad
self-destructive (continually shrinking membership), which is valid and I'm
considering doing things otherwise. However, I'm also enjoying Bob's
annoyment at the moment, so I may postpone "doing the reasonable thing." As
if I ever do it anyway. There are a couple of people who are NOT on the
Void; however, they know why they're not and it's more of an inside joke.
The only other people (at this point) who aren't on that technically should
be are people who don't have $tatus membership. (Mike! Listen up! This is
you!)
Perhaps I should make the qualification for entrance that you describe to me
where the name "the Void" came from in the first place. . . Although I
suppose that may be even more limiting, since a few of the "old-timers"
(cough cough) may not even know that.
As for myself, I think JT said it beautifully. (He has been looking a
little paler after your insults, though.)
Finally, ask Mike Carter -- I love a fight.
HB
Message: 61918
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Speaking of which
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:04:33
Cliff, re arguments:
Much better.
HB
Message: 61919
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Kevin Mahoney
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:05:10
To Zak and all else who know him: he says hello.
HB
Message: 61920
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:06:11
Oh, so YOU'RE the person that supposedly runs this board?
(Who is this weirdo anyway?)
HB
Message: 61921
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dog
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:26:06
Re: "Has anyone else noticed that Sandy is gone now that Heather is back?"
Could it be that one is the other in disguise? You know, like batwoman.
Message: 61922
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:36:17
Good grief Zak! I didn't know I was jumping on you. I didn't know I was
taking your words out of context. I didn't know I was taking cheap shots at
you. I'm sorry you hate me. I didn't mean to be so happily smug. I'm
sorry you think I'm ignorant.
To preserve peace, I apologize for all the accusations you made in post
61898. I don't need the hassle. So long!
Message: 61923
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:46:02
Re: "Would you care to elaborate on why you were thrown out of the void?
How were you there in the first place when it's been shut down?"
Well, somewhere along the line I seem to remember talking to Cliff about the
various SIGs. As a result of that conversation I was allowed on the Void
sig and started posting. Later on Ms. Brown logged on and asked what I was
doing there. I thought at first she was just joking around and responded in
a similar manner. After a few exchanges I was locked out. As I understand
it, since I wasn't a member 5 years ago, I wasn't qualified to be there.
I'm not sure I understand. Just a few weeks back Rod Williams reposted some
old messages. One was by me, and I believe the date was 1984. So I have
been around for at least 5 years. Maybe it was because I wasn't a $tatus
member. I've only been a $tatus member for a little over a year.
Message: 61924
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:51:26
Re: "Bob ... I REALLY wanted to go to your house"
It sounds like you had a really great time last night Ann! I was out with
my 2 youngest making the rounds. We were out about 2 1/2 hours. I wish I
would have thought to come to your house. The kids had a great time. Some
jerks in a jeep came by a egged me while I was standing on the curb waiting
for the kids at a house. It really ticked me off. I glad I didn't have
anything in my hand to throw, or I probably would have ended up in trouble.
Maybe next year I'll carry a couple of eggs in self defense. Ha!
Message: 61925
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ms. Brown
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 10:55:58
Re: "I imagine I am quite a bit nicer in person."
Hey Ms. Brown! I'm glad to hear that. I'm still looking forward to meeting
you "in person". Since you live in Tucson, do you get up to the GTs?
Message: 61926
Author: $ Spaz Brown
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: GTs
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 11:07:30
Nope. Sorry.
HB
Message: 61927
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 12:40:12
DeConcini Re: Lincoln: 100 million in loans..... Yes a few thousand for
Mecham gets him a recall? How blind your bigotry makes you is amazzing!
Why did you not wait till the next election to get rid of Mecham?
I am voting for Mecham this upcoming election...as are many, many others!
Not because I think he is great... but he is a far sight better then that
brain dead Mofford. Mofford by the way had not listed some income
correctly, but it got overlooked because she listens to the Pheonix 40.
Now, before I go...I want your facts where McCain got more money
from Lincoln than DeConcini?
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
P.S. Tuesday, April 4th 1988 the State Senators voted to convict Mecham of
"High crimes, misdemeanors or malfeasance in office." He was later found
innocent of all charges in a civilian court. Many lawyers who do not even
like Mecham, said he was removed from office UNJUSTLY....
Message: 61928
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 13:24:16
Don't take my words out of context... A quote by ZAK! But he must
have a licence that lets him take my posts out of context.
RE: Zak calling me... "DORK", "Doddering fool", "Moron", "Senile Bag
of Lard", and that's VERBATIM ! It sorta sounds like me.... sometimes!
However, I feel like Bob... So long Zak! When you can discuss an issue with
out the English lessons... I will resume talking to you on this media. I
lost the argument between the insults...somewhere?
But to clear it up... I am not a Kennedy fan... I was shocked that
the President was shot....even though I wanted him out of office.
I don't have the Fall River Herald in my hand that called MLK a
rapist and a liar and a con-artist. But then again, it could have just been
the Media that hated him in that part of the nation. I have a habit of
tossing news print after a few years! Sorry!
Again...The Flag as a piece of cloth means nothing... But as a
symbol of this nation as a whole... It means a lot for me. When in the
military, they tell you to defend the FLAG... That means defend the Nation.
(some people have to have it spelled out) I JOINed the military, and did my
part with pride.
Sorry I don't have a 100% command of the English language....
But that is not my forte...
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61929
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Entertainment/Movies
Subject: Fab. Baker Boys
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 15:15:35
It was fabulous.
Message: 61930
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Zak
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 17:36:13
I dispute the validity of the 'encyclopedia' you used.
One of your facts that stands out in my mind at the moment is your statement
that Amerigo Vespucci discovered America before Columbus.
As you should know Columbus landed on the New World October 12, 1492.
Amerigo Vespucci did not do any exploring of the New World until 1497.
Vespucci was the first to realize that this was a new land. He was the one
who first called this new land the New World. A German mapmaker, Mercator,
gave the New World the name America in honor of Vespucci.
Because information was slow to get around many people did not realize that
Columbus and Vespucci were sailing in the same area. The map maker did not
know about Columbus. The reason Vespucci was getting the fame instead of
Columbus was Vespucci has some sort of traveling agency going. He wrote
about the new world trying to entice Europeans to come over. His traveling
pamphlets were vigorously distributed. Europeans, then, associated the New
World with Vespucci.
The only other people I know of that came to the New World prior to Columbus
are the Native Indians many, many years ago the the Vikings in 1100 A.D.
The reason the Vikins are not given any credit for the discovery of the New
World is they jealously hid this find from the rest of the World.
Message: 61931
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bob/Void
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 17:52:12
If you want access to the Void, do what I did ........
Marry Cliff.
Message: 61932
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Woodruff
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 18:11:47
Grow up.
Message: 61933
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Mr King RIP 1968
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 18:28:10
I was around when Martin Luther King, Jr. was doing his thing. I have
always been interested in politics, so I have never missed a vote, and I
listened to speeches by all sorts of people. Today they really seem to
white wash this Mr. King as some sort of folk hero. They show you clips
from some of his speeches.. Always the nice stuff like "I wanna live...."
Gets you right down in the heart... You never hear 'Burn, baby burn!' and
other riot inciting language he used... I was there.... I am not fooled by
text books full of lies and half truths. Zak can believe what he wants, but
I know the facts as they unfolded before me. MLK was a bigot himself....
Now he is a politicians best friend to get the black vote.
I have my rights too... and I know what I know, and God be my
witness, I am not lying!
I am sure some of you elders could back me up on this if you
were politicaly aware back in the 60's.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61934
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Cliff/MLK
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 19:23:02
Can you point me to any possible reference to MLK saying 'Burn, Baby,
Burn!' in a speech. I think it was someone else.
See You Later
Dean H.
Message: 61935
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: NRA
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 19:32:40
The latest issue of The American Rifleman has a column by NRA Executive
Vice President J. Warren Cassidy in which he addresses the NRA's political
endorsements and how they are given out. The gist of it seems to be that
they give no support to Libertarians only because they don't expect them to
win any races, yet.
He did not address the point which was brought up in some earlier letters
from members, to the effect that the NRA would have nothing to lose and
everything to gain by supporting Libertarian candidates in races where no
other candidate supports the second ammendment.
The overall feel of the piece is that the NRA identifies very strongly
with Libertarian candidates and would be giving them ALL of their support if
they were closer to winning. I wonder if the NRA leadership is aware that
there is a Libertarian candidate who has an excellent chance of winning a
seat on the Tucson City Council at the next election?
See You Later
Dean H.
Message: 61937
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 19:59:30
Bye bye Bob. Sorry you felt the only thing you could do was to give up.
Message: 61938
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 20:03:41
OK.
Message: 61939
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT
Date: 11/01/89 Time: 20:13:09
JT, grow up yourself. I've never seen anything written by you that would
lead me to believe you are anything more than a very literate 9-year old.
We learn first by example, so where is yours? I may or may not need
to grow up, but it's not your place to say.
Assuming you are "grown up," take a more realistic approach to those who are
not. For starters, don't say; show. If you really want me to change my
behavior, try offering some positive suggestions as to how it can be done.
If you really give a damn about my maturity, why don't you make a real
effort to help me achieve it? If you don't give a damn, keep your sarcastic
mouth shut.
Message: 61940
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Zak/Harold & Maude
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 01:54:12
Thanks for the fun GT tonight.... The movie 'Harold & Maude' was
interesting to say the least.
Now let's get back to fighting.....
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61941
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: From "Innumeracy"
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 02:58:55
"Assume that there is a test for cancer which is 98% accurate; i.e., if
someone has cancer, the test will be positive 98% of the time, and if one
doesn't have cancer, the test will be negative 98% of the time. Assume
further that .5 percent -- one out of every 200 people -- actually have
cancer. Now imagine that you've taken the test and that your doctor
somberly informs you that you've tested positive. The question is, how
depressed should you be? The surprising answer is that you should be
cautiously optimistic. To find out why, let's take a look at the
conditional probability of your having cancer, given that you've tested
positive.
Imagine that 10,000 tests for cancer are administered. On the average, 50
of these 10,000 people (.5 percent of 10,000) will have cancer, and so,
since 98% of them will test positive, we will have 49 positive tests. Of
the 9,950 cancerless people, 2% of them will test positive, for a total of
199 positive tests (.02 times 9,950 = 199). Thus, of the total 248 positive
tests (199 plus 49 = 248), most (199) are false positives, and so the
conditional probability of having cancer given that one tests positive is
only 49/248, or about 20 percent! (This relatively low percentage is to be
contrasted with the conditional probability that one will test positive,
given that one has cancer, which by assumption is 98 percent).
"This unexpected figure for a test that we assumed to be 98 percent accurate
should give legislators pause when they contemplate instituting mandatory
or widespread testing for drugs or AIDS or whatever. Many tests are less
reliable: a recent article in The Wall Street Journal, for example, suggests
that the well known Pap test for cervical cancer is only 75 percent
accurate. Lie detection tests are notoriously innacurate, and calculations
similar to the above demonstrate why truthful people who flunk polygraph
tests usually outnumber liars. To subject people who test positive to
stigmas, especially when most of them may be false positives, is
counterproductive and wrong."
From "Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy And Its Consequences", by John
Allen Paulos.
Message: 61943
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 03:18:24
RE: "The movie 'Harold & Maude' was interesting to say the least."
Why to say the least, Cliff? Why don't you try to say the most? What kind
of a man says the least when he could be saying the most? Geesh...my boys
knew that!
Really, though, it was a refreshing mini-GT. I humbly withdraw my assertion
that you are a "doddering old fool."
By the way, Sandy, the Robert Redford movie we were trying to figure out the
name of is called Three Days of the Condor.
--< Zak Woodruff >--
Message: 61944
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Abraham Lincoln
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 03:55:21
[from the first speech in the Lincoln-Douglas Debates]
"I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between
the white and black races. There is a physical difference between the two,
which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid living together upon the
footing of perfect equality; and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that
there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the
race to which I belong having the superior position."
"I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the
social and political equality of the white and black races -- I am not, nor
ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, --nor of
qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people."
And that, my friends, is why Abraham Lincoln is on the penny instead of the
silver-dollar.
Message: 61945
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/#61911
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 06:05:27
You didn't see the word Democrate in that message because, to the best of
my knowledge there is no such word. (smile) You didn't see Democrat either,
since everyone here is aware of my political affiliation, and I just
presumed that all would have expected me to vote for at least some of them
too. The point I was trying to make was that I tend to look at the
individual and his or her abilities to perform in the post, rather than
party affiliation. I seem to recall even voting for a Libertarian once, a
number of years ago. Can't for the life of me remember who (or why), but it
certainly wasn't because of party! Probably because the individual
represented the least of three evils.
Message: 61946
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Question?
Subject: Ann?
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 06:08:43
You have a male neighbor who you know so intimately that he recognized you
by your teeth?
Hmmmm. I'll bet you have an interesting little neighborhood there! Peyton
Place west?
Just how close are you to your neighbors, anyway?
Message: 61947
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Question?
Subject: Heather (Spaz)
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 06:12:21
I'm really an old timer, and I'm not in the Void. How come? I think that I
was a regular user of Apollo well before you were old enough to use a
computer. Well, maybe not THAT long.
Message: 61948
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 06:23:37
Your constant referral to me as a bigot really makes you the bigot, not me,
since you have no real justification for the name calling, a low I have not
resorted to in our "discussion".
I'm sure that Ev (the REAL bigot) will appreciate your vote, since he will
get so few of them. Sorry that you like to vote for sure losers. As
seemingly inactive as Rose has been, I would rather have 100 of her in
office than one MEcham. Isn't it wonderful how we are all entitled to our
opinion? All, apparently, except me of course. As soon as I express one, you
are all over me like peanut butter and jelly on bread. Oh well, I guess you
have to have somebody to vent your unfounded hate on. It may as well be me.
As to dollar figures, I don't have them readily available, but the point I
was making was that DeConcini has returned themoney that he got from
Keating, and McCain hasn't even paid for his plane rides yet, let alone his
political contributions from Keating. All I have heard from him was that if
somebody can show him where his acceptance of those funds is illegal, he
will return them. Big hairy deal! Never mind illegal! What about unethical?
Apparently, "poor" John couldn't care less about ethical!
Message: 61949
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 06:26:35
"If you want access to the void, do what I did....Marry Cliff."
Now THAT'S what I call THE supreme sacrifice!
Message: 61950
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob on Halloween
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 08:44:17
Re: those egg throwers ... I always expect there to be some problems like
that - you know, tricks, the other part of treats? Ha. But I will admit,
except for some toilet papering around the neighborhood, there hasn't been
too much of that stuff to which I'm highly grateful. I couldn't say that as
a kid though. We 'tricked' if someone didn't give us a treat. In fact, a lot
of the time we'd trick anyway! Lord help someone if they wern't home! My
favorite was to collect doggy do a couple of weeks before Halloween - in a
hole in the ground, keeping it moist and 'paint like consistancy'. I then
would put it in a bucket and take a paint brush with me. The trick was to
paint the door and front porch with it! One awful time I was painting a
screen door when a woman opened it and it splatter all over her! Gads, did I
get in trouble! My husband's favorite trick back in a Wyoming rural area was
to get on horse back, throw a rope around a outhouse and move it off it's
hole by wrapping the rope around the saddle horn. One time that backfired
when one of his teachers fell in! Guess she was very fat and got stuck. This
was all terrible to be sure and I'm glad those days are over with. At least
I think they are! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61951
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/MLK
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 08:52:36
If King did indeed say "Burn Baby Burn" - it was certainly no worse than
what the whites were saying - had been saying - always did say! We are still
a prejudiced nation - better, but still that way. We have a long way to go.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61952
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 09:26:23
CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! Loved your post on JT and him being a literate 9-year old!
Personally, I'd make that 7-year old! He's existing on his past post merits.
In the last year, he sends noting but sarcastic one liners. Bore! Bore!
Boring! I never heard of a person going down hill literate wise, but he sure
appears so. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61953
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 09:52:00
You have never voted for a Democrate? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61954
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on my teeth
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 09:54:16
No, I do not know the neighbor intimately. My teeth are individual like
everyone elses. If you smiled no matter what your make-up was, I'd know who
it was. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61955
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dandy Sandy
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 09:56:21
It's not that I wouldn't marry Cliff - but I'll pass on that one for now!
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61956
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on make up
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 09:59:05
You clown you! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 61957
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Answer!
Subject: Sandy
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 12:29:39
Re: "Marry Cliff."
Thanks anyway Sandy. I think I'll pass.
Message: 61958
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 12:42:59
Re: "My favorite was to collect doggy do a couple of weeks before Halloween
- in a hole in the ground, keeping it moist and 'paint like consistancy"
You sound like a real sweetheart back then Ann. I must admit, I did push
over a few outhouses. I remember once a guy was just waiting for us, and
before we could get a good push in he came tearing out the door with a
stick. He almost caught one of us, but I was running in the opposite
direction. But that's about the worst I did.
Message: 61959
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 12:45:00
Re: "CLAP! Loved your post on JT and him being a literate 9-year old!"
Sorry Ann, that wasn't me. I'll have to give credit to my friend Zak.
Message: 61960
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak!
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 13:36:41
Thanks for the movie... It was very interesting to say the MOST!
So, I am now just a 'doddering young fool'..... Thanks again!
We need more mini-GTs like that!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61961
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 13:57:20
I keep calling you a 'Bigot' because you keep calling Mr Mecham one
and he is not here to defend himself. I also posted the definition of the
word 'bigot' and the way you attack Mr Mecahm CLEARLY clarifies you are a
hateful bigot of the worst kind. You hug the Bible but won't open your eyes
and try to understand anyone elses viewpoint. Even when they have been
cleared of said crimes, making you are a hypocrite as well.
Here is the meaning again: READ IT!
Bigot, a person (Paul Savage) who holds blindly and intolerantly to
a particular creed, opinion, (Mr Mecham's) etc.
Speaking of voting for losers...you have not voted for a winning
president since you have belonged to Apollo... you ALWAYS VOTE for losers!
This CLEARLY points out you are not in main stream America!
I do not JUMP on you for every issue... I agree with you on many things
like the abortion issue... then I fight with Ann... At least she can take
it with out calling friends of ours 'Bigots' and spreading other half
truths. Though I will admit, Sandy knows Mr Mecham better than I.
While I got your ear..is the Clown Info in the cmd correct ?
(found in the Ain menu)
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Grin... I don't hate you Paulie!
Message: 61962
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Ann on Burn
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 14:05:56
Ann... In my book.. TWO WRONGS do not make a RIGHT! I am fed up,
paying for what uneducated idiots did generations ago. So 'Burn, Baby,
Burn' does not set well with me. Want your house burnt down because
someone else did not treat a minority with respect 100 years ago? You under
the belief that violence today will erase the hurt of years ago? I think it
will create MORE hate. It would if they burned down my house!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 61963
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 15:49:45
Please do not say bad things about Martin Luther King Jr. He is not here to
defend himself.
Message: 61964
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Union bashing
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 19:14:40
Was that our favorite former letter-carrier who was engaging in a bit of
union-bashing with Brian Donnelly on KFYI this morning?
Message: 61965
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Harold & Maude
Date: 11/02/89 Time: 19:16:09
Phew. Good thing I didn't accept the invitation to the GT, I would have had
to sue for false advertising. I've seen H&M many times, but driving to
Cliff's in the middle of the night to see it instead of the advertised film
would not have been fun.
Content of this site is ©
Mark Firestone or whomever wrote it. All rights reserved.