Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - May 19 - 20, 1991

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 75296
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie/75280
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 05:08:25

 I consider a person as spiritually shallow when they ask about my beliefs,
not to learn of my beliefs, but to ridicule and hold in scorn that which I
and a lot of others hold very dear. It's not as ,uch the questions as it is
the motives.
 As to the seriousness of Apollo, while you are right in most instances,
when it comes to things Scriptural, I can remember several times when, after
an extended period of endless Bible discussions, several users criticized
the discussion as being too long and drawn out, and requested, even
demanded, that they be terminated. Since the present one is going noplace, I
fail to see any reason to bore those users who couldn't care less.

Message: 75297
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill B.
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 05:17:19

 I'm not sure just how long you have been hanging around BBSes here, Bill,
but I have seen these same "inquiries" and "truth-seeking" over and over
again, and have yet to see one soul converted through them. The same people
who held the Word of God up to ridicule several years ago are still doing
the same thing today.
 Personally, I am tired of round-robin arguments that resolve absolutely
nothing, and if that translates into lost opportunities, as you claim, then
so be it. I guess I'll have to answer to God when I stand before the throne
one of these days. One thing for sure. I don't have to stand before any man
for judgement.
 Since you are so mournful of my lost opportunities, why don't YOU engage
the "skeptics" (I prefer "Bible bashers) in an ongoing "discussion"? Maybe
you can even get a few jewels in your crown. Go for it!

Message: 75298
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cat on canoe
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:10:21

Re: "I'll bet one could build quite a canoe for $2 million. Just think of
all the accessories one could include."
 
Yeah .... a couple of paddles! -=*) PEACHES (*=-

Message: 75299
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on discussion
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:18:22

Re: your "Since the present one (religious discussion) is going
noplace"......! The PRESENT ONE???? Are you kidding with this 'present one'?
Lets face it - it is and has been a continuous one - at least since I've
been on Apollo!! From what I read of old posts, it has been going on since
the beginning of Mr. Slone. It was probably programmed into his Motherboard!
Ha ha. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75300
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: News Today
Subject: New law
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:32:48

Another rediculous law on the books thanks to Fifie baby! The article reads.
.. New signs will greet restaurant patrons in Phoenix this summer and will
appear at restaurants throughout Arizona by next year.
Gov. Fife symington has signed legislation that mandates the signs, which
urge pregnant women to abstain from drinking alcoholic beaverages.
"There is no know safe level of drinking for pregnant women" said Carol
Keene of Phoenix Fights Back, a substand-abuse program sponsored by the
city. "Drinking alcohol during pregnancy causes birth defects, and it's
easily preventable" The signs will read "Warning: Drinking distilled
spirits, beer, coolers, wine and other alcohol beaverages during pregnancy
can cause birth defects."
The signs will go up in Phoenix on July 1 to meet a city code, and the state
law takes effect Jan. 1
More than 9,000 restaurants and bars will be affected by the law!
 
When is this idiocy going to stop anyway? I have went to bars and
restaurants for years and I'll bet I never saw one pregnant women in a bar
and darned few even in a restaurant. But what is the signs going to prevent
- the women from drinking? What's next - a law against her drinking, period?
What is the matter with education trough the media (also magazines,
articles, etc.) and the woman's doctor? The article didn't state what the
fine would be if these bars and restaurants do not comply, but any amount
would be crazy. Next will be warnings about Cholesterol, eggs, milk, and
beans causing flatulence! They won't need wallpaper with all the signs.

Message: 75301
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: News Today
Subject: more on sub.
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:39:14

Makes me wonder about the statistics of Italy where the wine consumption is
like water here and they start out at an early age and I doubt very much if
pregnant women abstain. Also Germany, where beer is consumned with a
passion. I don't ever recall reading where there is a over abundance of
birth defected people running around in either of those countries or idiot
Savants or morons or babies born addicted to alcohol!!??!!
 
As far as I'm concerned, this new law belongs in the same catagory as the
one where they put a warning on the oven door not to stand on it!! Just as
crazy! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75302
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger's Too Rational
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:51:53

> Even those who are "questioning christian beliefs" are clearly
> thinking about those things. ... In fact, looking and reading
> the Bible with a questioning mind is good for the Christians as
> well.
 
        I have to disagree with you, Roger.
        Beliefs such as those professed by christians cannot be rationally
supported.  They are, by definition, irrational.  Rod's quote from Mencken
says it quite well:  "If you doubt the silliness of religious beliefs], then
ask any pious fellow of your acquaintance to put what he believes into the
form of an affidavit, and see how it reads...."
        To try and apply rational thought to religious convictions is pure
folly.  It only results in confusion and bitterness.  If one is going to
accept and profess religious beliefs -- of any type -- he or she is much
better off simply saying, "Look.  I know it doesn't make any sense, but it
works for me.  If you're interested in hearing how I feel about all this,
fine.  I'm more than happy to tell you.  But, I'll never be able to satisfy
you that it's reasonable.  It isn't.  It goes beyond reason somehow.  That's
why they call it 'faith.'"

Message: 75303
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: For sale
Subject: Dean Sells It
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:52:36

> I am selling out in order to atone for my past financial sins
> (debts).
 
Go and sin no more.  Good luck, Dean!

Message: 75304
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: For sale
Subject: Cool Jeep
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:53:00

> How's the air conditioning on that thing?  I wouldn't want to
> tool around the Phoenix deserts too much without it.
 
Actually, you might not want to tool around the desert WITH it.  At least
not on.  From what I've seen of others' experience, the relatively slow
speed of four-wheeling means limited air circulation around the radiator,
making the extra heat generated by having the a/c on often leads to
overheating.  Pull the doors and let the air flow!  Smells better, too.

Message: 75305
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Drug Talk
Subject: C U @ DQ, Rod
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:53:26

> If you were (and some of you are) a female then how would you
> like... Label: Dairy Cow.
 
Kinda makes me hope for a Dariy Queen GT.  Burgers, fries and a malt. 
Mmmmmmmm!

Message: 75306
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Religion
Subject: Paul Hogs the Truth!
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 08:53:55

> I have seen these same "inquiries" and "truth-seeking" over and
> over...  I'll have to answer to God when I stand before the
> throne one of these days. One thing for sure. I don't have to
> stand before any man for judgement.  
 
Interesting how you so piously reserve judgment of your actions for the
Great Beyond, yet are so willing to condemn others based on your own
judgment.
 
> Since you are so mournful of my lost opportunities, why don't
> YOU engage the "skeptics" (I prefer "Bible bashers) in an
> ongoing "discussion"?  
 
Because I think you're full of prunes.  My objection is to the inconsistency
in your positions; your willingness to discuss biblical matters only with
those you deem to be "serious."  It makes your belief appear to be designed
only for your own comfort and belies your professions of desire to share the
word with all.

Message: 75307
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: Rational Beliefs
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 13:18:12

But within a belief system such as Christianity, a tenet of that belief
system should be able to be rationally deduced. If the outsider or skeptic
points out an inconsistency within that system, then the believer should be
able to either eliminate the tenet from that system or be able to resolve
the inconsistency in a rational manner.
 
Therefore, the Christian, having his faith solidly based upon a rational
basis, given the axioms of that system, should not fear or despise the the
attack from without, but use it to clarify and purify his own faith.
 
For example, in the story of Noah, God and Jehovah seem to say inconsistent
things relative to how many animals to take on the ark. Biblical scholars
have discovered that the story of Noah consists of two separate accounts
inter-twined to make one story. There is substantial evidence to back this
claim, and the text, when read with this knowledge finally makes sense.
Thus, the Christian, able to resolve a nagging inconsistency has his faith
strengthened as it is no longer burdened with an indefensible position.
 
Of course, there are those who deny any rational basis for belief and
believe 10 impossible things before breakfast. These folks ARE hopeless.

Message: 75308
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Ann on God
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 17:06:44

      But if God DOES exist, then who are we to say what He can and cannot
do with what He created?

Message: 75309
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Rod on Elisha
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 17:12:02

     Rod, you are showing your ignorance to the original Hebrew languages,
and Biblical context.  I will elaborate when I am home and able to do so.

Message: 75310
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Question?
Subject: Guess The Author!
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 20:06:16

...
  "Those are absurd doctrines which will have you on the
dung heap in no time, my girl," said Dubois with a frown;
"believe me; forget God's justice, His future punishments 
and rewards, the lot of those platitudes lead us nowhere but
to death from starvation.  O Therese, the callousness of the
Rich legitimates the bad conduct of the Poor; let them open
their purse to our needs, let humaneness reign in their
hearts and virtues will take root in ours; but as long as 
our misfortune, our patient endurance of it, our good faith,
our abjection only serves to double the weight of our 
chains, our crimes will be their doing, and we will be fools
indeed to abstain from them when they can lessen the yoke 
wherewith their cruelty bears us down.  Nature has caused us
all to be equals born, Therese; if fate is pleased to upset 
that primary scheme of the general law, it is up to us to 
correct its caprices and through our skill to repair the
usurpations of the strongest.  I love to hear these rich 
ones, these titled ones, these magistrates and these 
priests, I love to see them preach virtue to us.  It is not
very difficult to forswear theft when one has three or four
times what one needs to live; it is not very necessary to
plot murder when one is surrounded by nothing but adulators
and thralls unto whom one's will is law; nor is it very hard

Message: 75311
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Question?
Subject: Guess The Author!
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 20:18:19

to be temperate and sober when one has the most succulent
dainties constantly within one's reach; they can well 
contrive to be sincere when there is never any apparent
advantage in falsehood....  But we, Therese, we whom the
barbaric Providence you are mad enough to idolize, has
condemned to slink in the dust of humiliation as doth the
serpent in grass, we who are beheld with disdain only 
because we are poor, who are tyrannized because we are weak;
we, who must quench our thirst with gall and who, wherever
we go, tread on the thistle always, you would have us shun
crime when its hand alone opens unto us the door to life,
maintains us in it, and is our only protection when our life
is threatened; you would have it that, degraded and in
perpetual abjection, while this class dominating us has to
itself all the blessings of fortune, we reserve for 
ourselves naught but pain, beatings, suffering, nothing but
want and tears, brandings and the gibbet.  No, no, Therese,
no; either this Providence you reverence is made only for 
our scorn, or the world we see about us is not at all what
Providence would have it.  Become better acquainted with
your Providence, my child, and be convinced that as soon as
it places us in a situation where evil becomes necessary,
and while at the same time it leaves us the possibility
of doing it, this evil harmonizes quite as well with its

Message: 75312
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Question?
Subject: Guess The Author!
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 20:21:28

decrees as does good, and Providence gains as much by the 
one as by the other; the state in which she has created us
is equality: he who disturbs is no more guilty than he who
seeks to re-establish the balance; both act in accordance
with received impulses, both have to obey those impulses and
enjoy them."
...

Message: 75313
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cryptography
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 20:31:06

Crypto seems to be becoming a hot topic.  On NPR this 
morning they had a story about the FBI attempting to make 
the transmission of encrypted data over telephone lines
a criminal offense.  They want the law to force the 
plaintext of any such transmissions to be required to be
available to law enforcement organizations.  The opposition
made a good case by pointing out how this would go against
every related precedent in U.S. history.  Banking, for
instance, would have to cease electronic funds transfer
because they would not be able to operate securely.
Any comments from the cryptologists?

You chose Religion
Message: 75314
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Letter
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 22:26:43

Dear Editor:

      What a wonderful April Fool's joke!

      The April 1st Phoenix Gazette ran Billy Graham's column with the
headline "Discoveries of science don't contradict Bible".  I had a big
laugh.  I remembered the verse where the bible calls the mustard seed the
smallest of seeds (Matt. 13;31-32), which the science of botany has
determined to be false.  The bible say that the earth has four corners
(Rev. 7:1) and that the earth is motionless (1 Chor. 16:30) which the
science of Astronomy has disproved.  It says that the hare chews its cud
(Deut. 14:7) which the science of zoology has refuted.  Also it claims that
some birds have four feet (Lev. 11;20-21) which the science of ornithology
has refuted.  This is just a small sample of such examples in the bible.

      Then I read the column itself.  Billy Graham says "Nothing in modern
science contradicts the Bible or makes it obsolete."  It was then I
realized that the April Fool's joke was Billy Graham.  Apparently this
atheist knows science and the bible better than Mr. Graham.
                                    Douglas D. McNeil

I received a copy of this letter and thought I'd pass it along.
Remember: Dairy Cows are in Hell.

Message: 75315
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 22:52:11

  The AC works fine, I just never put the full top on it so I don't turn it
on.
   See You Later,
      Dean H.

Message: 75316
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill B./sins
Date: 05/21/91  Time: 22:58:42

  I'll try, how about buying my Jeep to get me started on the path to
righteousness?
   See You Later,
      Dean H.

Message: 75317
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie/present
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 05:15:27

While religion has been one of the ongoing topics of debate since Apollo was
a pup, it does get a rest now and then, until somebody makes a remark
concerning religion, and then it gets picked up again. My reference to the
"present discussion" was in the context of the current round.
 While I doubt that the subject was programmed into Tom Slone's motherboard,
I'm sure that the opinions expressed on both sides of the debate were
expressions of belief (or unbelief) that had a source much older than even
computers themselves.

Message: 75318
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: Apro/author
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 07:55:27

I'll guess Voltaire.

Message: 75319
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Answer!
Subject: Guess The Author
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 07:58:16

Rod?

Message: 75320
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Answer!
Subject: Tithe, Dean! Tithe!
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 07:59:08

> ...how about buying my Jeep to get me started on the path to
> righteousness?
 
        Sorry.  I can barely afford the Escort with which I replaced MY
Jeep.    It's a decent little car, but sure high-centers easily.
        There is, however, Another Way.
        We have been told many times that "It is easier for a camel to pass
through the eye of a needle than for a Kennedy to enter the Kingdom."  I
would encourage you to make an offering of your Jeep.  To me, of course. 
With this small gesture you will be on the road to redemption.  (I know this
solution does little to relieve your indebtedness, but suffering is good for
the soul.  Especially yours.)

Message: 75321
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Religion
Subject: Stop Thinking, Roger
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 07:59:50

> But within a belief system such as Christianity, a tenet of
> that belief system should be able to be rationally deduced.
 
        So how can the basis of christianity -- that Christ was the son of
God and rose from the dead -- possibly be rationally deduced?
        You're talking rubbish here, Roger.  Religious belief is based on
pure, blind faith alone.  It is only through its inherent irrationality that
religion makes any sense at all.
        A wonderful paradox, no?

Message: 75322
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill #75302
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 08:14:47

Good post Bill. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75323
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod on  Daryl
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 08:22:22

Re: Daryl's .... "Rod, you are showing your ignorance to the original Hebrew
languages, and Biblical context."...
 
You bad boy you! How can you go through this life being ignorant of the
original Hebrew language? Tsh tsh! What's the world coming to anyway? Why,
I'll bet you haven't even taught it to you kids have you? 
You'd better straighten up fellow. I smell brimstone. 
                  *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75324
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Question?
Subject: What happened to ...
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 08:26:33

... Wild Barbarian anyway? Did it get to hot for him here?*>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75325
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Question?
Subject: Guess The Author!
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 18:31:34

...
  "What, pray tell, do you mean by this feeling of gratitude
with which you fancy you have captivated me?"  Roland 
inquired.  "Be more reasonable, wretched creature; what were
you doing when you came to my rescue?  Between the two
possibilities, of continuing on your way and of coming up to
me, did you not choose the latter as an impulse dictated by
your heart?  You therefore gave yourself up to a pleasure?
How in the devil's name can you maintain I am obliged to
recompense you for the joys in which you indulge yourself?
And how did you ever get it into your head that a man like
myself, who is swimming in gold and opulence, should
condescend to lower himself to oweing something to a wretch
of your species?  Even had you resurrected me, I should owe
you nothing immediately it were plain you had acted out of
selfishness only: to work, slave, to work; learn that enough
civilization may overthrow the principles of Nature, it
cannot however divest her of her rights; in the beginning 
she wrought strong beings and weak and intended that the
lowly should be forever subordinated to the great; human 
skill and intelligence made various the positions of
individuals, it was no longer physical force alone that 
determined rank, 'twas gold; the richest became the mightiest
man, the most penurious the weakest; if the causes which
establish power are not to be found in Nature's ordinations,
the priority of the mighty has always been inscribed 
therein, and to Nature it made no difference whether the
weak danced at the end of a leash held by the richest or the
most energetic, and little she cared whether the yoke 
crushed the poorest or the most enfeebled; but these 
grateful impulses out of which you would forge chains for 
me, why, Therese, Nature recognizes them not; it has never
been one of her laws that the pleasure whereunto someone
surrenders when he acts obligingly must become a cause for 
the recipiant of his gratuitous kindness to renounce his
rights over to the donor; do you detect these sentiments you
demand in the animals which serve us as examples?  When I
dominate you by my wealth or might is it natural for me to
abandon my rights to you, either because you have enjoyed
yourself while obliging me or because, being unhappy, you
fancied you had something to gain from your action?  Even
were service to be rendered by one equal to another, never
would a lofty spirit's pride allow him to stoop to
acknowledge it; is not he who receives always humiliated?
And is this humiliation not sufficient payment for the
benefactor who, by this means alone, finds himself superior
to the other?  Is it not pride's delight to be raised above
one's fellow?  Is any other necessary to the person who 
obliges?  And if the obligation, by causing humiliation to
him who receives, becomes a burden to him, by what right is
he to be forced to continue to shoulder it?  Why must I consent
to let myself be humiliated every time my eyes fall upon 
him who has obliged me?  Instead of being a vice, 
ingratitude is as certainly a virtue in proud spirits as
gratitude is one in humble; let them do what they will for 
me if doing it gives them pleasure, but let them expect
nothing from me simply because they have enjoyed 
themselves."
...

(Author tomorrow)

Message: 75328
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Answer!
Subject: WHAT HAPPENED TO...
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 20:00:25

Wild Barbarian?  My guess is a drug overdose.

Message: 75329
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 20:11:43

Re:  Why not Bob Cat?

Oh man why didn't I think of that?  That's a natural.

On second thought, I think I'll stick with Felix.  I mean, how many people
do you know who are named Felix?  If you yell out "Bob" in a crowd, a lot of
guys will turn and look.  But maybe if you yell out "Felix" in a crowd, a
lot of guys will still turn and look to see what poor dude got hung with a
name like "Felix."

Message: 75330
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/orig.stuff
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 21:48:51

Thanks, I needed that.

My children know forty-three languages thus far and we are working on our
forty-fourth, thank you.

We know pig-latin (original of course), duck-latin, cow-latin, horse -latin,
tater-latin and some more latins.  

Ann, I have a serious question for you.....if you were just a mass of free
energy, having the universe as your playground, and you met another mass of
pure energy but it was of different polarity.....and you decided, the both
of you, to intertwangle and become with child....giving birth to a beautiful
being of free, pure energy......then....then....would you send it to a place
such as this earth for any reason???

Any reason?  It seems rather cruel to me.  I know that our stay here is not
long in the least in comparison to eternity but sometimes it seems like it,
eh?

Even if this new entity that you and the other form of energy made, did
something terribly cruel to another then would it be sent to a place such as
this?
(more on this later)
                                    Thanks, Rod

Message: 75331
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Milk
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 21:53:37

I heard another one of them "milk" commercials today.  "Yes, Milk is a 
natural."  "Drink lots of milk."  "Stay healthy, drink a lot of milk."  Milk
helps build strong bodies 8 ways (or is that Wonder white Bread). 

Message: 75332
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill.B
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 21:56:39

Yeah, let's have a dairy farm gt.  We can all meet at one and watch feeding
and milking time.  We can count how many cow pies per acre.  We can have
load of fun boys and girls.

If you think Cows have it so good then visit an egg ranch.  I have this
theory that goes something like this:  If a person eats a lot of cow flesh
then they stand an excellent chance of being reincarnated as, yes, you
guessed it, a cow.  Dumb theory though.

A cow is just as important as a human.  Why can't we eat humans?

                                Rod

Message: 75333
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Religion
Subject: Ann on Me on Rod
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 22:39:23

   What I meant is that Rod should do some basic homework before he attempts
to speak on a topic that he knows too little about.

Message: 75334
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl...last
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 22:45:49

I was simply quoting H. L. Mencken, the author.  Why, how do you interpret
elisha?  And did you interpret it yourself or was it interpreted by another
for you, what?  There must be several thousand different interpretations of
each sentence in the book in question, no?
                                        Rod

Message: 75335
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Gods
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 22:48:03

There must be at least 50,000 different gods in this world and I'd bet that
not a single one of them would want to be worshipped or praised.  There
would be no need for such action in any event save for choosing a mad man
for your particular deity.            Rod

Message: 75336
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Apro/author
Date: 05/22/91  Time: 22:55:53

Guess the author......I'd say it was someone from quite a while ago.  I've
read Mark Twain, Richard Henry Dana and Kurt Vonnegut.  That's all the
authors I can remember.

I read a lot of poetry when I was growing up.  Haven't read anything
recently but I still have a number of poems flowing in my head.  I've read
"Face on the Bar Room Floor, Sally in my Alley, Omar Kayamm (sp), To the
Virgins to make much of Time, Yarn of the Nancy Belle and hundreds more.

I'd say that the author had some fairly deep feelings about their life.  He
was a realist, it would seem.
                                        Rod