Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - May 16 - 18, 1991

Mail from Apro Poet
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 19:21:06

Hey, ramble on.  It's the classic mind-body duality problem.
Maybe one of the reasons we're here is to wrestle with that
problem.  Assuming, of course, there's any reason to the
cosmos at all.  Whether or not, it can't hurt to have fun in
the mean time.

Speaking of clever buttons, have you ever heard of a company
called  Northern Sun Merchandising?  They stock very clever
posters, T-shirts, buttons, etc. with slogans like "Eat the
rich," "Please don't eat the animals."  They cover peace,
ecology, rights (indian, gay, women, worker, etc.), 
vegetarian, poverty, drug and political topics.  They have
music, videos, books, rubber stamps (my favorite), games,
radical postcards, and other stuff that can't be categorized.
They have a lenin and a hammer & sickle pin, a do-it-yourself
flag, all sorts of bizarre stuff:

Northern Sun Merchandising
2916 E. Lake Street
Minneapolis, MN  55406-2065

(612) 729-2001

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:Thanks for the name and address of Northern Sun.  I will write them for a 
 2:catalog.  We, Peter Petrisko, Mike Brito and myself have a 4 color silk 
 3:screen press along with all the other equipment.  I have the button making 
 4:devices.  All we need now is the 'time' to get something going.
 5:
 6:I think a lot about mind and body separation, perhaps too much but there is 
 7:not one thing I want from this earth.   Riches do not impress me as I know 
 8:they are only temporary.
 9:
10:I would like to see the human animal wise up and decide to have fun instead 
11:of all this gloom and doom shit that keeps happening because of our current 
12:thinking traditions.
13:
14:Oh well.
15:
16:If I could cut a fart so big and so powerful that this earth would split in 
17:pieces then I'd eat an extra can of beans just to be sure.  I mean, in 
18:reality we are already dead.  At least our time will come and be long, long,
19:gone in short order.  What's the difference, now or later?  If life is not 
20:quality then why have it at all?  There is much suffering in this world but 
21:it seems that animals love to keep their bodies at almost all costs.  I can 
22:envision eternity, dude (well almost).
24:Let's live.  My problems seem to be economical but they are the norm. Rod

Mail from Steve Albany
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 22:57:07

        Well, we're over at Dean's right now.. Perhaps we'll see you in a
few minutes, maybe not.. You should call me reguardless.. My number is
277-7376 (as I think I've already left it to you)
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:We should all get together at a 'happening Christian place' come Saturday 
 2:night.  That should be interesting for a few hours.  I enjoyed our visit but
 3:some evening you and I should go one on one and I would imagine that both of
 4:us would come away with more valid information than when we started.  I like
 5:to learn because knowledge helps me grow and stagnation is depressing.
 6:
 7:Sometimes I get so depressed that I go looking for a 'mind' to communicate 
 8:with.  I should have said 'a challenging mind.'
 9:
10:Last night I learned more about computers than I already knew and after you 
11:guys went home, Randy sighed and said something to the effect that he had 
12:learned quite a lot.  You set him straight.  Maybe you guys should work 
13:together.
14:
15:I have your number.  I also have 8 million projects to do and I usually take
16:my break in the evenings.           Rod

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 7384
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Michael/cheeks
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 06:12:49

The Biblical admonition to turn the other cheek may at times be a good way
to avoid an aggressor. However, if he slaps the second cheek also, the good
book gives no further details, so we can assume the right to kick the snot
out of the jerk.

Message: 7385
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:44:35

I think the time has come to buy a hand gun.  I remember you and Sandy
kindly offered to help me buy the right one when the time came.  I want a
used pistol for protection and target practice.  What do you recommend?

Felix

Message: 7386
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: cheekiness
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 17:37:03

Turning the other cheek, so to speak, only serves to make victims even more
victimized and encourages criminal behavior. If criminals had any reason to
fear their potential victims, you could bet that there would be a lot less
crime.
Also, self defense is an inherent right, so far as I'm concerned.

Message: 7387
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: Felix
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 20:14:57

  I realize you weren't asking me, but I'm here so I'll answer anyway. I
think either a 357 revolver or a 9mm semi-auto would be a good choice. Which
of those you would prefer will depend on you and what you want it for. Other
options are available of course, but these are about the minimum guns for
car to car shootouts (which is on everybody's mind these days). If I decided
to go back to carrying a gun in my car it would probably be the semi-auto,
as it at least has a safety on it in case somebody (like a kid) finds it in
your car and pulls the trigger.
   See You Later,
      Dean H.

Message: 7388
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: semi-auto?
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 21:38:07

        I do NOT recommend a 'semi-auto' for a beginner.  A 357 revolver
loaded with 38+P ammo would be your best choice for reasons of 'Ease of use'
'reliability'.   Shooting a 357 loaded with 357 ammo from within a car or
home would be a BIG mistake!  You do not need that type of penetration
unless you wish to shoot though your neighbors house.  The noise alone would
deafen you possibly causing permanent damage to YOUR hearing. THEN WE WOULD
HAVE TO TYPE IN UPPER CASE ALL THE TIME SO YOU WOULD HEAR US!

        If you plan to SHOOT a lot... and I mean 'A LOT', then you may think
about a semi-auto.  If you do not have the time to really learn your weapon,
then stay with a wheel gun, but you still will need to learn it, but it will
be easier.

        Bob, why don't you call Sandy and talk to her.....  843-3346
She can tell you a lot more then I can... she is the pro....

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 7389
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: Good news!
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 05:32:10

 At least somebody in law enforcement is on the ball! I heard on the news
yesterday that they have nailed the person(s) responsible for the murder of
the 19 year old girl and her unborn child. THey were fleeing to sunny
California. Nice going, folks! Now, gas 'em! Quick!

Message: 7390
Author: $ Sandy SysOp
Category: Rebuttal
Subject: Better Late Than ...
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:20:08

        On the subject of "force and the baseball bat" ......

To know when you can 'legally' defend yourself, you need three elements
present in the confrontation:
                Ability
                Intent
                Means
That point in time, when the person threatening you has ALL three of these
elements, you can 'legally' defend yourself with the use of force.

And make sure your force to defend yourself is appropriate to the force
being threatened or applied to you ..... in other words, you do not shoot
a person who threatens to punch your lights out (providing the people
involved in this confrontation are of equal physical condition).

Message: 7391
Author: $ Sandy SysOp
Category: Question?
Subject: shooting
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:20:56

        Wasn't that Vo guy who was caught crossing into California an
Illegal Alien on probation?

Message: 7392
Author: $ Sandy SysOp
Category: Believe it or not!
Subject: Massachusetts
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:27:36

        I hear Massachusetts is having a 'Gun Amnesty Week' where all the
fine citizens of Massachusetts can turn in their illegal (a word not
defined) guns. One of the places these undefined illegal weapons can be
turned into is the churches.

        Barf! What is happening to this country? And why does it have to
happen to one of the original colonies? And why do the churches participate
in the subversion of our 'rights'? Don't the churches know they are next? Or
have the churches already been 'had' and I just do not know about it?

        Don't I sound like a well rounded, all together type of person?

Message: 7393
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:34:44

Thanks for the input.  What do you think a fair market price would be for a
used 357 revolver or 9mm semi-auto in good working order?

Anyone here have one for sale?

What does ammo cost for the two different hand guns?

Message: 7394
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:36:34

Thanks for the input Cliff.  I'll call Sandy.

P.S.  How come you haven't changed my name yet?

Message: 7395
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Fire'arms
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:39:38

Re:  I heard on the news
yesterday that they have nailed the person(s) responsible for the murder of
the 19 year old girl and her unborn child.

I heard he was an illegal alien out on parole.  Why was he running around
loose?  What's the normal procedure when an illegal alien is arrested?

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:Felix

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:I can get you a good deal on a used firearm.  It was only used once in a 
 2:bank holdup.  Cheap!
 3:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 7396

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 75226
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie/Leviticus
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 05:57:39

 There's nothing in any book of the Bible that I won't discuss, honestly,
Ann. It's just that there are those people with whom a discussion on
Biblical things is not only fruitless, it is totally pointless. Discussion
is one thing. Endless circular arguments with no resolution are not only a
waste of time, they are very frustrating, and who needs frustration?

Message: 75227
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Beau
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 06:03:45

 Primary elections ARE restricted to registered voters of the particular
parties. I think that the arguments for open primaries are totally
ridiculous. Why should a Democrat, for example, help to choose the
Republican candidate for any office?
 As to the # of signatures required on a petition, I have always been under
the impression that the requirements are the same for any petition, and that
is a certain percentage of the number of voters who voted in the last
general election. Why should there be stricter requirements for one petition
than there are for another?

Message: 75228
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandi/animals
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 06:08:49

The Bible, as do laws pertaining to human nature, deal with people, not
animals. Welcome back.

Message: 75229
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on Lev.
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 08:54:03

Look at it this way - at least you have Beau and I reading the Bible!
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
 
Yes, I did get it out yesterday and turned to Leviticus just to see what
Beau was talking about. I had forgotten some of the chapters of the Bible
are like this - all this blood letting, sacrifices, God said this - God said
that etc. etc. Makes me confirm why I don't believe in a God like that
anymore! I think a chapter like that one is SOOOOO intermingled with the
rituals of the times, that if there is any of God's words or instructions to
mankind, it is lost among the killing! Sounds to me like it's a way to
believe in God just in case He is there and keeping 'Voodoo stuff' too!
How anyone can believe in them is beyond me - the same people that
wouldn't believe in anything as crazy as the daily horoscopes!! 
This chapter could give people nightmares it's so gorey.
                        *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75230
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley/last
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 08:58:51

Re: your ... "The bible, as do laws pertaining to human nature, deal with
people, not animals". 
 
Oh - I wonder what all those animals thought about that that were sacrificed
in Leviticus??!!!
 
I don't think God would kill animals nor instruct people to do so either -
even way back then! Do you? It is SOOOO easy to say "God said to....."!!!
                            *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75231
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: For sale
Subject: B&W TV set...
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 10:43:24

        12 inch black and white TV (do they still make these things?)
portable of course....  $20.00    It can also run off 12 volt....

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 75232
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dog
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:14:56

RE:  Rape in the OT

Rape is not right under any circustance.  God never approves of rape.  I'm
not sure why you think he does.

Message: 75233
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:19:04

Re: Paul & Long Hair

Yea, Paul must have really been an unrighteous dude.  Can you imagine anyone
being so low as to say, "It is unbecoming for a man to wear his hair long."

I'm surprised God didn't have him crucified for saying such a terrible
thing.

Strickly TIC

Message: 75234
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rog
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:21:07

Re:  the "whole list of ... stupidity"

Let me find the article (I saved it somewhere).  I'll type it off line and
upload it.

Message: 75235
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rog
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:21:57

Re:  you probably feel guilty about it

Huh?

Message: 75236
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peaches
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:24:08

OK.  Peaches it is.  I used to have a crush on a girl named Peaches in high
school.

Felix Cat

Message: 75237
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Religion
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 11:32:36

Re:  It's just that there are those people with whom a discussion on
Biblical things is not only fruitless, it is totally pointless.

Amen.

Message: 75238
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy/Animals
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 13:54:06

You can be sure that those animals who participate in such abominable
behavior will not go to heaven when they die.

Message: 75239
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/Discussion
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 13:56:32

It is only fruitless when you refuse to answer Beau's point. How do you pick
and choose which laws to follow ?

Message: 75242
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob/75235
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:03:40

I'll explain once. Your reply indicates you recognize your own intolerance
and bigotry. Your defensiveness about your intolerance suggests you may feel
guilt about it. If you do not recognize this, then I suggest you talk to a
competent psychologist or clergyman.

Message: 75243
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:04:36

When you quote me, at least be kind enough to give the reference
transaction.

Message: 75244
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rog
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:32:58

Re:  Your reply indicates you recognize your own intolerance and bigotry.
Your defensiveness about your intolerance suggests you may feel guilt about
it.

I disagree.  I think you are projecting your own shortcomings. 

Message: 75245
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Religion
Subject: Rog
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:34:08

Re:  When you quote me, at least be kind enough to give the reference
transaction.

Sorry; I'll try harder to please you in the future.

Message: 75246
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Politics
Subject: Tax Dollars 1 of 3
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:35:04

$49 million for a rock-and-roll museum.
$1.9 million for an "all-Ireland genealogy project."
$5 million to help support Ted Turner's "Goodwill Games."
$2 million to construct and sail an ancient-style canoe to depict the
migration of native Hawaiians.
$15 million to Dartmouth College as part of a jobs creation scheme.  A total
of 39 jobs were created at a cost of $324,685 each!
$1.36 million for preliminary work on an $18.6 million project to turn a
Miami boulevard into an "exotic garden for people."
$500,000 to restore the birthplace of bandleader Lawrence Welk, which was
not requested by the Welk family!  (This item came under severe public
criticism and has been withdrawn.)
$566 million (rising to $900 million later this year) to send American cows
to Europe to participate in an "Export Enhancement Program."
$500,000 to study the effects of cigarette smoking on dogs.

Message: 75247
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Politics
Subject: Tax Dollars
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:35:32

$107,000 to study the mating habits of Japanese quail.
$19 million to study whether flatulence emitted by cows and other livestock
harms the ozone layer.
$84,000 to study why people fall in love.
$1 million to study bicycling and walking safety.
$160,000 to study food gathering habits of the Ache Tribe in Paraguay.
$50,000 to prove that sheepdogs do, in fact, protect sheep.
$46,000 to determine how long it takes to cook breakfast eggs.
$170,000 to fund a Dunkin Donuts store in Lawton, Okla.
$6.1 million in the search for extraterrestrial life.
$90,000 to study the social and behavioral aspects of vegetarianism.
$219,592 to teach college students how to watch television.
$2,500 to investigate the causes of rudeness, lying and cheating on tennis
courts.
$25,000 to find the best location for a new House gymnasium.

Message: 75248
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Politics
Subject: Tax Dollars 3 of 3
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:36:01

$40,000 for new trash receptacles.
$2 million to renovate one of the House restaurants.
$350,000 to renovate the House beauty parlor.
$340,000 for international travel.
$100 million for franking privileges (free mail).
$6 million to upgrade the Senate subway system.
Prior to the general election of 1992, congressman can resign and legally
take all their remaining campaign funds with them for private use.  For
some, this will amount to more than a million dollars.
Congressional salaries were increased by 25 percent last year, while talk of
the deficit was in progress.  Then they cut an inside deal, agreeing not to
speak of the matter during election campaigns.
More than 300 congressmen are eligible for retirement benefits in excess of
$1 million.  How big is your retirement fund?

Message: 75249
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Politics
Subject: Summary
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 14:38:52

I thought the one about $19 million to study whether flatulence emitted by
cows was the best.  If everyone on this BBS took all the taxes they will pay
for their entire life, it would only pay a small portion of this study{ 
Doesn't that make you feel real good about paying your taxes?

Message: 75250
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Answer!
Subject: me/cops
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 17:29:50

It's rather difficult for me to say, as I suspect that if I was black, I
would have grown up viewing such matters on a completely different
perspective. As I personally don't fear cops as enemies/white establishment
figures or whatever, I would likely approach the police in a setting like
Phoenix in a situation like that if I thought I had no other alternatives
(i.e. fleeing, winning a confrontation, etc.).

Message: 75251
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: paul on animals
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 17:32:11

So what, other than the standard biblical response that I can picture you
already formulating as you read this, makes us different from animals? So
far as I can tell, the only difference is that humans have a sense of
personal self and of time(past/future sense) and have the ability to talk
about it, and for all we know, those might not be such exclusive abilities.

Message: 75252
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: roger on animals
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 17:33:35

Cows in hell?

Message: 75253
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Politics
Subject: Petition signatures
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 18:01:10

Arizona has different requirements for petitions regarding initiatives
versus those regarding referenda.  In initiative petition is which calls for
modifications to or additions to the law.  A referendum petition is one
which calls for the repeal of a just-passed law (so that it can get referred
to the people). The legislature can also create a referendum without waiting
for the petition process.  They do this when they can't make a decision, or
on things which require voter approval (taxes, constitutional amendments, ?)
 
So, anyway, somebody apparently decided that the voters could just barely be
trusted to gainsay the legislature/government, but they were going to have
to be much more numerous in order to create legislation.  

Message: 75254
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Drug Talk
Subject: Holland
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 18:03:42

Well, I don't know about the crime rate, but many probably remember that Jim
Lippard got mugged in Amsterdam (just after getting cash) by someone who
claimed to have a knife in his jacket.

Message: 75255
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: My retirement fund
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 18:12:12

Well, it is doing better than Head Quasar's ...
 
(Mike:  the retirement committee here at Bull HN took out an insurance
policy on the principal which was invested with Executive Life (or whatever
that company's name is).  The policy is, of course, with a different
company.  So, nobody in the protected fund is going to lose much more than
most of the interest that company was going to pay this year.  Neat, eh?)

Message: 75256
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Drug Talk
Subject: The Netherlands
Date: 05/18/91  Time: 19:43:17

Dealing openly on streets

  In 1987 1.7 percent of adult Amsterdamers said that they
had taken cocaine in the previous year: 6 percent of New
Yorkers said they had taken it in the past six months.  
Heroin may be slightly more common in Dutch cities than in
Holland's neighbors'.  It is far more noticeable.  Dealers
openly sell it on the nastiest street corners of Amsterdam
and Rotterdam.  The trade is strictly illegal, but in the
big cities the police (who in such matters must consult the
elected local mayors) do not interfere.
  Most heroin is bought by regular takers.  Some live
discreetly with their habit, a few are self-destructive
junkie rebels who make a noise, steal from cars, harass
tourists.  The police try to reduce the nuisance.  But their
main concern is to guide sick addicts toward welfare
workers who, in turn, co-operate with local associations of
heroin takers (known as *junkiebonden*) and of takers'
parents.  The hope is to keep junkies alive and healthy 
until they seek their own cure.
  The policy of controlled toleration can turn official
morality upside down.
  The most intractable difficulty is that young people may
come from neighboring countries to buy tolerated drugs.  Of
Amsterdam's 6,000-odd heroin addicts, about 2,000 are 
foreign.  The peculiarly Dutch welfare system cannot cope 
with foreigners, who are sent home when they turn sick or
criminal, and often drift back again when they find no help
at home.
  The Dutch are realists.  They have no intention of
withdrawing from the international conventions that outlaw
the sale and use of drugs.  They simply ignore them, while
collaberating with their less tolerant neighbors to catch
consignments that seem destined for export.  The senior
policeman of a rough district insists: "The Americans offer
us big money to fight the war on drugs their way.  We do not
say that our way is right for them, but we are sure it is
right for us.  We don't want their help."
  Dutch policy aims "to lessen the problems attendant upon
drug use, instead of decreasing the use itself."  In fact it
may do both.  Cigarettes are reckoned to have killed 18,000
people in 1987, and alcohol 2,000.  The next most fatal drug
was heroin, which killed 64.  Most important, the death toll
was declining, and the average age of the dead was rising.
Toleration meant that addicts were living longer, and fewer
young addicts were being recruited.  They can get clean
needles free -- so, of the 605 Dutch who have AIDS, 8 
percent are junkies, while the proportion in the United
States is 26 percent.
  Cocaine takers are sometimes psychotic.  But Holland has
no cocaine-related crime, and no cocaine-related death.
  As for cannabis, the official figures for 1988 show that
33 percent of Americans aged over 12 had at some time tried
it.  A comparable study in Amsterdam showed that 24 percent
had tried it.  The American figures cover an entire country
whose people are told to say no, and are often arrested for
saying yes.  In a tight-packed city with cheap marijuana
available everywhere, the Dutch used the stuff less.
  Dutch brewers, meanwhile, were reporting a drop in sales
of ordinary lager beer, and a sharp rise in those of strong
special brews.  In open and free competition with cannabis
and all the rest, beer was winning.

This article was accompanied by a photo of two Amsterdam
policemen on the street, both smiling, one of whom was
gratiously accepting the offer of a marijuana cigarette.
The photo was taken during a demonstration calling for the
preservation of Holland's permissive drug policy.

Radio Netherlands can be heard in Phoenix from 8:30 to 9:25
PM on 9590 kHz.

Message: 75259
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie/sacrifice
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 05:11:41

 Your responses are great examples of what I meant when I mentioned the
futility of trying to discuss such things on a media such as this, with
people who only have the most superficial understanding of God's Word, the
Bible.
 It would take far more time and space than anyone has to explain the need
for God's laws (on which, by the way, all basic human laws are based), the
need for the stated punishments at the time they were given, and the fact
that the blood sacrifices were all fullfilled at Calvary. THere are some
things that spiritually shallow people will never learn in a few moments on
a BBS, and that was not meant as an insult, either to you, to Beau, to
anyone else or to the BBS. This is a fine, fun system, but was never meant
as a means to serious in depth discussions. At least not to me.

Message: 75260
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Bob/tax dollars
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 05:18:05

Sounds like about time for a general tax revolt. I wonder what Uncle Sam
would do if about half of the people flatly refused to pay taxes, either
directly or by witholding. Put us all in prison? I think we need a watchdog
in both houses of congress!

Message: 75261
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandi
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 05:24:34

 Other than the standard (and very valid) Biblical response, humans have the
ability to reason, a quality not foun in animals, as well as the capacity to
plan for the future, communicate effectively (most of the time), as well as
other qualities. Add to these the above mentioned Biblical response that we
were created in God's image and likeness, and given the responsibility of
rule over the earth and the animals, and you have quite a difference.

Message: 75262
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Beau/petitions
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 05:27:13

Okay, you were aware of a difference that I was not aware of. Which still
brings us back to the problem of creating enough interest among the people
to generate the needed signatures, a troublesome chore in this case if even
the lesser amount were required, don't you agree?

Message: 75263
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Politics
Subject: petitions
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 10:11:11

Yes, it can often be a lot of trouble to gather petition signatures and
raise public interest.  However, I see this as less of a problem than the
problems of gathering sufficient signatures to get a person or a party on
the election ballot.  When petitions are proposed, there is no room for
change, for amendment, for compromise.  Some set of people (or maybe just
one person) went into a room, closed the door, and later came out with the
initiative.  Once they start collecting signatures, there is no way to "fix"
it to make it better.  Even if one is for the idea, and even if the authors
agree that your changes would make it better, there is nothing that can be
done.  The campaign reform initiative that is being proposed is a good case
in point.  We all agree that some sort of campaign reform is necessary, but
I feel that they're going about it in the wrong way.  Should I therefore
support their brand of campaign reform?  Should I fight it, thereby creating
the illusion that I don't believe it is necessary?  In the setting of the
legislature, the discussion can be a bit more fruitful.
 
However, since most of the legislators in AZ these days are afraid of their
own shadow, they never get around to working on meaty issues... hence the
need for easier access to initiatives.

Message: 75264
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cows In Hell
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:44:52

> Cows in hell?
 
Well, let's hope they get their flatulence under control!  With all those
flames it could be dangerous!  Not to mention the smell; brimstone AND cow
farts.  Ugh.

Message: 75265
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Religion
Subject: Paul Sez Sorry, Lord
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 13:46:03

I'm gonna regret this, but...
 
> Your responses are great examples of what I meant when I
> mentioned the futility of trying to discuss such things on a
> media such as this, with people who only have the most
> superficial understanding of God's Word, the Bible.
 
So, in other words, we're not worth saving, eh, Paul?  Apparently another
biblical directive meant to be taken seriously only when convenient. 
Interesting.
 
"Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.  Uh, and I
PROMISE I'll find some time to spread the word tomorrow.  Honest.  Unless
something comes up.  Or I don't feel like bothering with it."

Message: 75266
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: News Today
Subject: Name Change
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 14:38:12

Notice the official name change.  You can call me Felix Cat, or you can call
me Felix, or you can call me Cat.  I suppose my friends will call me Felix. 
I prefer Felix.

Message: 75267
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 16:23:31

        You're still 'ThornBob' to me....  as labled by Zak Woodruff.

        I suppose I will get use to having a Cat on Apollo..  I got use to a
Dog.   I just hope we don't have Cat & Dog fights now...  sigh!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 75268
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Felix/75232
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 18:02:13

Haven't you been following the discussion?

Message: 75269
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Biowarfare
Date: 05/19/91  Time: 18:15:21

  A Nebraska physician wrote in a recent medical journal
that a former truck driver, 49, probably aquired the AIDS
virus from one of his "hundreds" of violent gay-bashing
episodes during the 1980's in New York City.  The man had
many lacerations on his hands, which he said came from times
he had beaten gay men so severely that their blood probably 
mixed with his own.