Apollo BBS Archive - May 1990
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Apollo BBS Archive - May 5 - 7, 1990
ATDT2461432
A/ RINGING
CONNECT 1200
Type
Apollo 7.2 300/1200/2400
What is your first name:ROD
What is your last name:WILLIAMS
Hello, Rod Williams
Is your name correct:Yes
Password:
Password:$$$$$$$
Caller # 147841 (13 today)
It is now 05/07/90 16:29:24
Last on @ 05/05/90 03:35:21
Last message read was (65339)
Message range is (65149-65399)
You have logged in 1422 times
*=* Main Menu entered *=*
Main Menu command:U
$ Rod Williams 16:29:23 (1200)
$ Bob Thornburg 13:48:12 (2400)
$ Dean Hathaway 12:24:18 (2400)
$ Ann Oudin 09:59:23 (1200)
$ Roger Mann 09:43:36 (2400)
$ Daryl Westfall 06:58:14 (1200)
$ Bill Burkett 06:34:22 (2400)
$ Mike McNeill 06:22:17 (2400)
$ Paul Savage 05:45:40 (1200)
$ Melissa Dee 05:04:25 (2400)
$ Nick Ianuzzi 02:16:58 (2400)
$ James Hawley 00:46:30 (2400)
$ Gordon Little 00:21:22 (2400)
Main Menu command:JN
*=* Journey to a SIG *=*
*=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*
$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C
Press to abort
Message: 6431
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Bob on Jim
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 09:30:20
Pay attention! Roger said that Jim was one of "those for whom Baptist
brainwashing had failed"
Message: 6432
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Jim Lippard
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 13:24:36
Jim is a failed fundamentalist, as I am. He has chosen to be an atheist.
I am more comfortable with Jim than I am with James White. Please note
the agnostic quality of my belief. One of the things I do take by faith
is the dictum "Use faith sparingly, evidence may arise to show that
faith is misplaced". I freely acknowledge the possibility that God does
not exist --- that the idea of God is a human response to a human need.
However, I "believe" that God does exists. Of course what I believe will
have no effect on whether God does or does not exist.
Since I claim the right of access to God through Jesus Christ (who may
or may not be part of God (I tend to disbelieve that he is) I am an
agnostic Christian.
Message: 6433
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 21:49:34
Somewhere at one time or another I heared a story about a guy in
Vietnam who was in a infantry group. This Christian dude had just
joined in the troop a few months back and was going around the
countryside of vietnam getting shot at with the best of them..
This Christian guy asked this one fellow who had a whole pile of
crosses, stars, ropes, beads, all kinds of religious paraphenalia...
from different religions, strewn about his neck and body;
"What's with all this..?"
To which the guy replied.." I..I-I BELEIVE!"
"Beleive what" asked the Christian dude..
"Everyone...you name it...out here I'm in NO POSITION to PI$$ anybody
off.."
Message: 6434
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann/Bible
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 07:01:27
Well, the writing of the Bible did not start at the beginning of Creation,
so in a sense you are right.
Message: 6435
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Dean/New Gods
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 07:05:05
I would disagree with you there, creating new "gods" is quite in fashion at
the moment. Look at the New Age movement, with all of these people claiming
to be the "channel" for some "higher being." In fact, there is one lady in
town who is supposed to be the channel for a god named Mena. You ought to
see the money she charges to let people talk with "him."
Message: 6436
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Dean H./Reason
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 07:21:49
I will agree with you on that one. When Scripture and logic come into
conflict concerning God's revelations concerning Himself, a believer must
allow Scripture to take precedence. Making reason the yardstick for judging
Scripture makes the creation the judge of the Creator. Reason also has a way
of trying to cast God in a light that we can fully understand (i.e.
re-making or fashioning God in an image of our reason's choosing.) Reason
has caused many Christians to deny that miracles recorded in Scripture never
really happened and the account of Jesus' birth is a myth. Reason must be
used with caution concerning Biblical matters. If left to run rampant, it
has a tendency to secularize(?) Christianity.
Since (IMHO) one cannot come to a belief in God of his/her own choosing, but
is given faith through the Holy Spirit by the reading of God's word, all of
the rationalizations given today to try and convince a non-believer that the
Bible is true, is for naught. If one does not believe God's word, all of the
head-beating and rationalizations that a decision-theologist offers won't
make a hair of difference. Even if Christ Himself came down and performed a
miracle in front of the eyes of the likes of Rod, he would not believe. That
is why I do not expect to "win anyone over" to my side in this discussion.
To those who have hardened their hearts, and convinced themselves that the
Bible is UNTRUE, the Spirit cannot make inroads.
PS: I apologize for taking your quote out of context. Meant to say that in
previous message.
Message: 6437
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike/6413
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 07:23:55
Isn't SOCIETY to bear the cross for the actions of "misguided" individuals?
Personal responsibility. What a RADICAL concept!
Message: 6438
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/Jesus
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 07:35:24
Re: Godhood of Jesus
The Jews of Jesus' time believed that Christ was blaspheming when he said,
"Before Abraham was, I AM." They even carried out what Leviticial law
prescribed for blasphemy (stoning to death). But they were not successful.
The Bible does not even say that a single stone cast even came into contact
with him. But they understood that Christ was claiming the same Name that
God revealed to Moses (I AM). The Jews realized that Christ was making
himself out to be equal with God. The only thing they didn't understand was
that he WAS. Even Thomas didn't believe until Christ showed himself to him
after the resurrection. "Doubting" Thomas' reply?: "My Lord and my God!"
Why do you not believe in the Virgin Birth, even though OT Scripture says it
was to happen? The OT prophecy was fulfilled in the birth of Christ, as the
Messiah had to be born of a virgin. Where do you make the decision of what
in the Bible is true and what isn't?
Message: 6439
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: bible truth
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 09:55:36
I made the same decision about what is true in the Bible the same way
you made the decision the Bible is true.
Message: 6440
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Daryl/New Gods
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 12:28:39
I stand corrected I guess, since I don't know much about what goes on
among New Age folk.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 6441
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Daryl/Reason
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 12:32:10
I think we agree on what is involved here, even though we are on opposite
sides. The misquote was no big deal, but thanks anyway.
See You Later,
Dean H.
$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:JN
*=* Journey to a SIG *=*
*=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*
X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C
Press to abort
Message: 3812
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Up Yours
Subject: HEY
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 20:22:28
FUCK!!
There. That should get things going around here...
Message: 3813
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer !
Subject: last
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 21:50:54
YOU
Message: 3814
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer !
Subject: continued
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 22:26:58
BITCH!
Message: 3815
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Last 3
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 22:40:45
You can even read them backwards using the and still make as
much sense.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 3816
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer !
Subject: Last
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:47:01
Might even be more interesting, that way.
Message: 3817
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Question ?
Subject: Next
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 05:08:20
ASS!
Message: 3818
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Melissa/last
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:32:16
HOLE is a very small orifice that ........
Message: 3819
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Last
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:32:47
Hmmmm .... do I smell a story starting? Pardon the pun!
X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:JN
*=* Journey to a SIG *=*
*=* Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board entered *=*
Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:$C
Press to abort
Message: 651
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Filmography
Subject: Melissa
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 17:25:13
The scene in SL&V when the girl masturbates for the camera. Slightly
similar to your 'female manipulation' while driving. It was a joke.
Message: 652
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: SCANDAL!!
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 04:40:23
Headline from this weeks Star: "Bart Simpson is really a woman!"
Slow week at the celebrity gossip mill when they start picking on cartoon
characters.
Message: 653
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Filmography
Subject: James on sl&v
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 14:52:37
Oh. I thought you meant emotional manipulation and I didn't get it.
Dopey me!
Message: 654
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Trivia
Subject: Where the hell is
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 20:23:27
Zak?! Maybe he and Jeff are both lost in the phantom zone?
Message: 655
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Zak
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 22:27:37
He called me a couple of days ago. I think he still doesn't have a
modem.
Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:JN
*=* Journey to a SIG *=*
*=* Public & Free Bulletin Board entered *=*
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C
Press to abort
Message: 65340
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Question?
Subject: Cliff on healthy
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 07:52:12
Re: When your man stops loking at other women ... then you had better start
worrying. That's the nature of a healthy man!.......
What is healthy about it? I'm not being sarcastic ... just want to know what
that means?-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65341
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger P.B. club
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:00:09
Oh yes. I remember the old Playboy club in L.A. - we use to go to it on
occasion and your right .... it was the thing to do - a real status symble.
In those days, it also was the thing for a waitress to be half attired when
serving in the better places - some, even topless. At first, it was kind of
exciting and new - but it didn't take long when we became weary of having
this distraction with our meals. My comment became "I'm tired of having sex
with meals!" This also applied to the clubs where hunks served the meals in
bikinis too! Soon, after the newness wore off, we never went to those
places. We'd prefer a quiet place where we could relax, talk and not have
someone bent over our table with their T.. in our plate. My husband was the
one that liked this the least and I think he's healthy! (this comment is in
regard to Cliff's comment) -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65342
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger on hiding
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:13:57
Re: "Why would my husband feel that he had to hide Playboy?" .... I wish I
knew that answer. My husband doesn't like stuff like that, so it's not
entered my life as a problem ... but as for other men that do, I haven't a
clue. It doesn't make any sense to me ... why would they have to hide it
from their wife if the relationship was good? But then again, if it was
good, why is he looking at such things on a regular basis? Why is this man
involved in fantasy at the risk of losing his marriage - home - family?
Seems like a big risk for so little. His wife has gotta wonder that if he
looks as these - then he might cheat on her - wonder if he pictures one of
those Playboy babes as he's making love to her, etc. etc. As a woman, I know
what's in my heart so to speak re. such things. I have had two huge posters
of ARnold in my laundry room for ages (just took them down) - they are not
suggestive, but non the less another man - my carboard sunscreen for the car
is a pix of a hunk in the briefest bikini - I have rented movies such as
'Pumping Iron' - all about body builders. But I do not lust after these nor
do I think of them when I'm with hubby - I know it and he knows it. But I do
not profess to know what's in a man's heart re. these things. See? I would
never hide anything like this - ever! Even if these bothered my husband,
they'd be gone in a flash because he certainly is more important and so is
our relationship. Perhaps you could make some sort of comment regarding this
and I hope other men here will to. This is just one woman's opinion.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65343
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on hiding
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:18:08
Then you are not one of the men that we are speaking of. Just don't be
defensive about it - why are you feeling sorry for us? We arn't talking
about 'US' here.
I admit that both men and women 'look' - but we are talking about extremes.
Re: buying cars --- men are noted for changing their cars quite often! Ha.
You say both you and SAndy look at Playboy. Why? What is one merit of that
magazine? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65344
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dandy Sandy
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:19:15
Your reply to the sitting or standing situation was halarious.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65345
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on sitting
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:24:44
Women are jealous???? Harrump! Not true. When I wear my shorts/jumpsuit - I
do not take it off. (hope you get the picture cause I ain't gonna explain
further or I'll end up in the Zone for sure.) I see no real merit in it
except I don't have to disrobe!
BTW - I am not into the 'equal rights' thing - I believe in them, but I'm no
feminist and I do not believe Melissa is either from what I've gotten from
her posts. I simply live a life of equality whether men like it or not. They
only shape my life as much as I let them. That's always been the case even
before the woman's movement started. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65346
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Our list
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:27:45
Re: the subject matter on the board ...
Christianity vs Athiestism
Playboy magazine
Toilet sitting or standing
A few computer subjects.
I'd say good ole Apollo was versified. Ya don't find that anywhere else.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65347
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: News Today
Subject: In the paper
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 08:37:08
I can't belive that this country has the gaul to call itself civilized! In
the paper was an article about a guy they electrocuted the other day - not
only did he spend 14 years in prison for his crime - when they went to
electrocute him, it took three tries. Here is some of what the article
said.....
"Ordininarily, state executioners turn on the current to the chair just once
to immobilize and kill the condemned who is strapped in with leather bands
and wires to the head and one leg. But Tafero withstood two jolts - still
visibly breathing and moving his head - before a third try, at 7:10 A.M.,
rendered him motionless."
"Flames and smoke rose from his head as the headset conducting the current
to his body caught fire!"
How can we call ourselves civilized when we let a person stay in prison for
14 years and then execute him and execute him with such a medival
contraption out of the dark ages??? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65348
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann on Healthy
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 12:50:04
Ann, if you started looking at other women, would you consider that
healthy? I should hope not... It is better if you look at Arnold S. or
that pool man you once had. Right?
Message: 65349
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: The SYSOP Speaks
Subject: New user
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 12:53:19
Please welcome Apollo's newest $tatus user... Robert Durham!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65350
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: cummings/logic
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 13:16:56
Unfortunately B is a fallacy.
Message: 65351
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: The SYSOP Speaks
Subject: Backed up
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 18:59:42
Apollo was backed up in full today... It also got a newer 3.5 720K
floppy drive. (from my AT that got an even newer 3.5 TEAC 1.44 MEG floppy)
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65352
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Logic
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 20:51:57
Yeah, but the very "outrageous, far-out" answer you propose requires that
element of "forever". (The crystals you suggest which are floating thru the
universe.) By whatever name, you describe an eternal, life-creating being. I
simply submit, with Acquinas, that what we have now is a world which is
demonstrably, if not obviously, more complex than that which history
demonstrates to us was extant 4000 years ago, in spite of the motion,
action, involved since then. Is there any other explanation for motion
becoming more complex rather than into chaos?
John.
Message: 65353
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann Oudin/sex
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 20:56:53
Oh, Ann, I knew you'd be a marvelous woman! What a great outlook! Your
husband is a lucky man! And you're a lucky wife! Wow!
John
Message: 65354
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: electrocution
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 21:03:01
Ann--we are civilized, and we tried to give that guy the easiest way out we
have devised. The fact that our mechanics are not as good as we'd like is
simply a comment on the people we now graduate from our high schools. This
guy had all those years to try to prove his innocence, or even to prove that
he deserved a more painful, slow death. Neither was proved, so he was
executed according to the laws of his state. It didn't work as well as we'd
like, but I'm glad he can't attack my daughter, or any other kid. I think
justice was served.
John.
Message: 65355
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/logic
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 21:07:28
No, B is not a fallacy! It is simply a statement--you may argue that it is
right or wrong, but not a fallacy! If our world is a development of
evolution from squirming one-celled beings to people named Roger, or John or
Clif, then, no, we are observing a development into more complex from less
complex. And that won't take place with out a Plan. and Planner.
John
Message: 65356
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Question?
Subject: Annie #65273
Date: 05/05/90 Time: 21:27:34
"Men and women aren't really all that different."?????
Perhaps you haven't checked lately? How long has WHitey been gone, anyway?
Message: 65357
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Sex & Love
Subject: Steve Mac
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 01:57:39
You don't believe he said it? You obviously are not well read.It was all
through the printed media last year.
You say one man does not speak for a whole religion, barring JC, what of all
the monks that copied the bible. You don't believe they changed it, put it
in their own words?
Message: 65358
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ANN
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 04:37:36
Have you heard about those donut shops where the waitresses are
topless? Almost makes me want to be a cop.... IF you know what I mean. And
I think you do!
Something to think about..... sometimes.....
Message: 65359
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on looking
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 08:10:32
But I do look at other women - I told you, I'm a people watcher. But I also
see their beauty, clothes, mannerisms, etc. I also do not look at men just
for some sexual purpose either.
Are you saying that you look at women for purely a sexual reason and no
other? Why can't both male and female admire the opposite sex without sex
being involved at all? Just curious. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65360
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Welcome Robert
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 08:12:09
Tell us all about yourself. Are you willing to jump right in on the debates
here? We always like new blood. New ideas. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65361
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John on electrocutio
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 08:25:54
I can't agree that we gave that guy the easiest way out we have devised! The
electric chair is not that. Beheadment would be better in a public square!
Of course, now we have lethal injection, but why didn't they use it on him?
An over dose of heroin would be better and better yet, leave it in the cell
and let him do it to himself. In my opinion, using the electric chair,
hanging, guns to preform executions brings us to the low if not lower of the
murderer himself!
Also - why 14 years before they pulled the switch? If a person is tried and
accused of such a crime, then let him be executed within a reasonable length
of time after, lets say a repeal trial and that's it! No more than a month
after the repeal trial. For one thing, why should the tax payers have to
room and board him for 14 year if he's legally been accused of murder? Why
not do it swiftly and humanely. We treat Rottweiller vicious dogs with more
humane treatment.
I admt to you that I do not believe in a death penality, period, but life in
prison without parole. Just my opinion. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65362
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on men & ...
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 08:37:21
OK Pauley, except for the obvious, where are men and women so different?
Please answer that is clear and precise terms.
AND ..... lets elaborate on the difference of the sexual organs! Except for
the obvious 'shapes' - how much real difference is there? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65363
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peter/last
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 08:40:47
Topless doughnut shops??? Now I know how they make those little holes!
-=*) ANN (*=-
P.S. Of course, it would be better to have male bottomless doughnut shops.
The holes would be rounder. *Heh
Message: 65364
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Electric Chairs
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 15:01:51
I agree. Death by gas or lethal injection sure seems more "humane" and the
cost is much less. I also agree that if someone is supposed to be put to
death, DO IT! This 14 years stuff is absurd!
Message: 65365
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: "Hunane"
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 16:17:04
Now if only we could get the "bad guys" to be HUMANE to their
victims. I swear, you bleeding hearts worry more about criminals then you
do of the victims. Over in a land not so far away, there is this ruler who
puts his enemies to death by castrating them with a pair of shears, then he
has their heads bashed in with a sledge hammer. I would like to adopt this
method over here in some cases.
If people were not afraid of the death penalty, crimes would be more
hideous. If you are going to kill one and get life, might as well as kill
100 or more.... and still get life. ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bleeding hearts have RUINED the justice system.... as there is no
more true justice, it's a joke!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65366
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 17:18:13
Re: "How can we call ourselves civilized when we let a person stay in
prison for
14 years and then execute him and execute him with such a medival
contraption out of the dark ages???"
Well, what in the world did he do? Surely it wasn't just a parking ticket?
If he was guilty of rape and murder etc. he deserved what he got.
Message: 65367
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/Death penalty
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 20:46:23
I agree that 14 years on death row is ridiculous--but the teary eyed knee
jerk liberals have pushed us to this extreme. He could have been executed
much faster, but is allowed appeal afterr appeal to other courts, before hsi
time runs out, then is finally executed. I think beheading in the public
square might be of beneficial effect on the populace, but kinda cruel on the
beheadee. Of course, under Henry VIII they had a system called drawing and
quartering while alive. That was REALLY uncomfortable.
John
Message: 65368
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 21:26:10
Yeah, the bleeding heart liberals always get teary eyed when any sort
of semi-violent death is imposed on these murderers.
Maybe that image of the burning helmet might stick in a few minds.
Some jacka$$ killer out there just might, just might think twice about
killing in orde4r to get away with theft.
WHat makes me laugh on this one, is Ann wants me to beleive that
electrocution is something out of the dark ages. Well, Ann, they didn't
know how to manage electricity in the "Dark Ages"...and instead, they
used your preferred method...death by beahedding.
That was the dark ages. What a contradiction.
Well, if the image is too violent for you..why did you read it in the
first place?
Me, I'd rather see these axe murderers have justice served in an equally
violent fashion as they dished it out..serrated kitchen knives,
pitch forks and camping appliances and all. If the victim was shot 7 times
at point blank range in the stomach and chest with a .45 auto, then the
death sentence, if so awarded, should be carried out in the same fashion..
7 rounds into the stomach and chest with the murder weapon if at all
possible.
That's the ticket.
Message: 65369
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: Sentence terms
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 21:41:43
Consider this much....if (as it has happened) a truly innocent man is
sentenced to death wrongly (i.e. he did not perpetrate
the crime) and we go with this INSTANT JUSTICE everyone so eagerly
wants,...what happens to our rights then?
You guys are so blindly in favor of this that you haven't for a minute
figured out what the possible rammifications are.
Certainly, a vast majority of convicts are there because they belong there..
but removing the appeals process is somewhat ignorant of our rights.
There is a price to freedom and such..we have found that in order to reach
a method of justice, that it must hold true equally for everyone...and not
just for the not so guilty...but for the beyond a reasonable doubt guilty
as well. You can't arbitrate who is and who isn't worthy of 14 years of
appeals. It is a frustration we must keep in order to serve the tennets
of truth and equal justice. Destroy that process, in any quantity, and,
like everything else (gun laws and the rest), the politicians will take
that inch given and run 10 miles. We'll see the absolute and total
corruption and destruction of a once great system. It's bad enough
now....wait till you see what happens when rights get stripped!
Oh, it'll look real nice to start with...quick executions and all...
just wait till something happens to you and you go before an unforgiving
court system...and are quickly silenced before you have a chance to refute
the "EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU"....read 1984 again.....it looks like you all
desperately need to.
-Mike
Message: 65370
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: News Today
Subject: Speaking of
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 21:57:00
Today, 1700 people died world wide....960 of them were in one fashion
murdered....of the 260 suspects rounded up in the first two months
here on... 7 innocent men out of 24 correctly identified will be
either harassed for months on end or unjustly served punishment for
a crime they did not commit.
Message: 65371
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Religion
Subject: Hans/Monks
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 22:14:45
No, I don't believe the copiests all changed the Bible, putting it in
their own words. If they had, then why would all of the thousands of
manuscripts be as nearly as identical as they are?
=(O,O)= Hoot!
Message: 65372
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Apollo
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 23:49:18
The problem I referred to earlier about some messages not showing up was
all my own fault. Years ago I had set my profile to ignore messages on
RELIGION, and did not remember it. Now that I found myself sending and
expecting to read messages under that heading, they were not showing up.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65373
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Shooting
Date: 05/06/90 Time: 23:51:30
That shootout GT really got me interested in shooting again. I went out
Saturday and Sunday, and have had to crank up my reloading press again. I
also made a slightly different version of the Shootout GT video tonight,
which I will try to bring tomorrow night. That GT at Cliff's is still on,
right?
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65374
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:02:56
In any explanation of the origin of life you either have to say that
something existed forever (God, or my crystals) or you have to say that it
was created. In that case something had to create it (if you are going to
continue following the logic which got you to this point) so you haven't
gained on the real explanation at all.
My facetious explanation could be made to account for increasing
complexity just as easily as any other could, or has. Without the necessary
knowledge to develop and test real theories on these matters, we can choose
to accept someone else's theory on faith, or settle for not having any
explanation.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65375
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Talking of Hustler..
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:27:24
In Friday's paper I see that Dwaine Tinsley, the creator of Hustler's
"Chester the Molester", was sentenced to six years' imprisonment for having
sex with a girl from the time she was 11. Isn't it nice to see a magazine
staffed with thoroughgoing professionals who know their own specialties from
the inside out?
(Now, how do you do a "satiric sneer" in ASCII characters?)
Message: 65376
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/1 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:28:51
It took two jolts of electricity to kill John Spenkelink in the same chair
in 1979. His face too was covered by a mask, but the skin on his leg
crackled and burst open. This however was not a malfunction, simply the
normal result of placing a human body between electrodes with a potential
difference of two thousand volts. The mask of course is there so that we
can pretend the man's face showed calm fortitude and dignity throughout,
except for a proper expression of remorse for his sins.
In the old days, much the same crackling effect was produced with bundles of
burning sticks, except that death took much longer and was more painful, and
there was no mask so that the crowd could enjoy watching as well as
listening to the man scream. There was a generally festive air in the town
square, and vendors did a brisk trade in the medieval equivalent of hot dogs
and Coca-Cola.
A similar spirit pervaded the crowd gathered outside the prison when
Theodore Robert Bundy was exterminated in the same chair in January 1989.
There were choruses of "Burn, Bundy, burn!", and a Jacksonville radio DJ
urged the public to turn off their home appliances to make sure there was
plenty of juice available.
Message: 65377
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/2 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:30:11
Probably Jessie Tafero didn't feel much after the first jolt of electricity,
since the passage of a heavy electric current through the brain has a
knockout effect that is used in electroconvulsive "therapy". Not being an
expert, though, I wouldn't guarantee it. I would certainly dispute the
statement that breathing and nods of the head were caused by a postmortem
"nervous system reaction" similar to that of a chicken running around the
barnyard after its head has been chopped off. Breathing is controlled by
centers within the brain, so part at least of the brain stem was not yet
dead.
We can be grateful that we live in a country where First Amendment freedoms
make it possible for the press to give us accurate and detailed reports on
many subjects, including executions. When murderers were hanged in England,
the entire proceedings were shrouded in secrecy. Prison governors were
given official guidelines on how to report an execution, e.g., "it was
carried out expeditiously and without a hitch". They were explicitly
forbidden to say whether any time elapsed between the opening of the trap
and the prisoner being certified dead. Disclosure of such information was
contrary to the Official Secrets Act of 1911, punishable by up to two years'
imprisonment.
Message: 65378
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/3 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:31:40
Nevertheless, we do know that when hanging is done properly, the neck
vertebrae are torn apart instantly, the prisoner involuntarily defecates,
and then it is all over. An open casket funeral would be unwise, because
the body is left with the neck elongated. If the drop is too short or the
rope improperly placed, slow strangulation may result, which happened to one
Mrs. Thompson in 1923. If the drop is too long, the head may be pulled off,
which has also happened.
Authorities bungled three attempts to hang a man named John Lee in 1889
before giving up; whether out of mercy or frustration is not recorded. His
sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. I suppose he was lucky.
It takes an unusual kind of fortitude to be an executioner. I see that the
state of Washington is keeping the identity of its hangman secret, so we
cannot judge what kind of man he is. The executioner of Mrs. Thompson
obviously lacked this fortitude. He committed suicide shortly afterward.
A macabre sense of humor helps to ward off the reality of death. Albert
Pierrepoint, a British hangman, used to run a pub called "Help the Poor
Struggler". His assistant, Allenby, ran another pub called "The Rope and
Anchor".
Message: 65379
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/4 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:33:26
Many executions, of course, are far less revolting than the murders for
which some people are executed. And more often than not the murder victim
had done nothing to deserve his death; neither did his death serve any
purpose in protecting the public. It is hardly surprising that people are
angry enough at murderers to feel like pulling the switch themselves. A
loved one of a murder victim has a special right to feel angry, and if he
were to go out and personally put a bullet through the head of the murderer,
I would label it at least a natural and human act, if not necessarily a
humane one. Nevertheless, the rest of us are not involved in quite such an
intensely personal way, and due process of law gives us time to think about
not only venting our feelings, but doing what is best for the future.
In olden times the revenge motive was king. Flogging, burning, boiling in
oil and disemboweling were popular punishments, all done in public. Today
we have progressed to the understanding that barbarism begets barbarism, so
executions are much quicker and less painful and are done in private. There
is still credence given to the idea that execution deters murder; also we
can breathe easier when certain dangerous animals are permanently
neutralized. Since we argue that execution needs to be carried out, we take
advantage of this need by doing it with traditional methods that give us the
best of both worlds: they are relatively humane (when not bungled), but
still gruesome enough to satisfy that revenge motive. It's as if a man were
already being punished by locking him in the pillory and we use that as an
excuse to pelt him with rotten tomatoes as well.
Message: 65380
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/5 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:38:43
Our attitude toward execution is betrayed by the fact that we call it
capital "punishment". The aim of punishment is ostensibly to motivate the
wrongdoer toward better choices in the future. Clearly this definition does
not apply to capital punishment, since the wrongdoer will not be making any
choices in the future. We must therefore fall back on the other reason for
punishment, which is the gratification people get out of inflicting it.
I submit that this is not quite good enough. Of course we all *feel* like
personally strangling some murderers with our own hands. Feelings are
separate from behavior, however, and certain behavior, while instinctive,
should not be encouraged. Self-defense is a different matter, but at other
times when one person is angry at another the cause of peaceful coexistence
is not often served by bopping him on the nose. That way of handling
conflict can escalate into full-scale war. There are better, more
constructive, and more grown-up methods. Revenge may be sweet, but we
should not reinforce the notion that when somebody has done something to
hurt us, the best thing to do is to hurt them as much as possible in return.
The most important reason of all, therefore, for humane treatment of
criminals is not a bleeding-heart liberal sympathy with a killer, but to
avoid fostering the killer attitude among the rest of us. There is more
than enough killer instinct in the world already. We do not need more.
Message: 65381
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/6 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 00:39:52
We must take responsibility for what we choose to do with criminals. It is
evading responsibility to say that criminals must pay the penalty according
to law, because the law is not God. People made that law, and if it is
wrong, then it is the responsibility of people to change it.
If after due deliberation we conclude that the world would be safer or
better off without some particular killer in it, then a more fitting
attitude to take is one of sadness. Sadness that it could not have worked
out better. In keeping with that emotion, the least gruesome method of
extermination is the most suitable. We have perfectly adequate lethal
injections. Why don't we use them?
Message: 65382
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Chester
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 05:12:05
I saw a program on channel 8 with an interview of him. I always thought
something like this might turn up someday.
Message: 65383
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie on difference
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 05:54:05
Well, to begin with dear, women are more emotional than men. By that, I
mean that their emotions are more finely tuned, not that they are a bunch of
airheads, so don't get me wrong, OK? Women, generally speaking, tend to
think with their hearts, and that usually results in less logical reasoning.
Also generally speaking, women tend to be less muscularly structured. With
the obvious exception of those women (?) who are into "body building"
(yuck!), the feminine gender is softer, with less musculare definition than
men. Thank God for the difference!
As to the difference in sexual organs, maybe you need to get to a grade
school sex education class! (If you really don't know, that is.) I have
never heard of a man having a baby! If there ever was, I'm sure glad it
wasn't me! Vive' la difference!
Message: 65384
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: GT tonight
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 09:29:48
The Shoot-Out Movie is still on for tonight. Yes sir!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65385
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: gordon/execution
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 09:53:01
We join the barbarous murderer in a macbre dance of death, inextricably
linked to the act of killing. We drag ourselves into the slime with the
devil himself, while the victim remains still as mute testimony to our
inability to live civilized and peaceful lives.
Message: 65386
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: jeff beck
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 09:57:06
I talked to Jeff the other day. He asked me to let you all know he isn't
mad or anything, just busy with some other stuff.
Message: 65387
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on bleeding
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:04:05
Why do you label us 'Bleeding hearts'? That simply is not so. Any human
being deserves better than the electric chair and 14 years in prison waiting
to die! Why should the state (us) be more terrible than the murderer
himself? More cruel?
How can you say I'm a bleeding heart when I do not believe in the death
penality, but in life in prison without parole? What could be much worse for
a murderer?
I will agree that the bleeding hearts have ruined the system for the most
part. They've ruined a lot of things. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65388
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on death
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:07:34
I believe that if we are to have the death penality, that beheadment is one
of the better ways - probably just after lethal injection.
I still say the electric chair is madaeval. It might not be ancient, but it
goes along with the Rack and hot irons to the eyes! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65389
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on appeals
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:10:16
You have a point there and I would not want to do away with the appeals
thing - BUT - 14 years in prison and then they put him to death? Isn't this
a tad over board? How many appeals do you think a person should get? Two or
more? I feel that if a murderer is convicted twice, that ought to be enough
and then he is executed within the month after the second conviction. What's
the matter with that? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65390
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Gordon/6 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:15:46
Powerful posts! I agree 100%. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65391
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on sexes
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:29:23
Wrong Pauley! Women are not more emotional than men! They have been program
to be so as men have been programed to not be so! In fact, I have read where
it hurts men to not let their emotions out! Sets them up for heart attacks,
etc.
Re: women thinking with their hearts ... true, but so do most men and won't
admit it! I've seen my husband get every bit as emotional as I can get and
it doesn't make him less of a man. In fact, where it comes to emotions and
emotional situations in our life, I am the stronger one for the most part!
Now don't go saying we are unique because we arn't.
Re: the difference in sexual organs - of course I know the difference and I
also say 'VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!' - but really Pauley, what difference is there
except for outward appearences? Our society has brain washed us into
thinking one way - but how true is it? I think we proved here that women can
be turned on with pix of nudity also - something most men don't want to
believe. It has also been proved we like to look too! Men believe that women
make love to be loved and men make love for the sex part. Not true also! A
woman enjoys sex as well as men - have lust - have fantasy's - and it's not
just for the cuddling or love at all. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But are
men so different? Don't they also want to be cuddled, loved, hear sweet
nothings in their ear as women do? Are men just sexual creatures that lust
after a women's body? I think not. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65392
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: News Today
Subject: Pool fences
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 10:37:13
The law went into effect today. It states you must have a self latching
gate/fence around any new pools. 5 foot high or a self closing, self
latching doors leading from the home to the pool!
Hmmmm .... makes me wonder if these same people that would turn their back
on the kids and let them drown in an un-fenced - un self latching gate -
would be more vigilant and see that the gate is closed or the pool cover is
on the pool????? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65393
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 12:42:12
I have a 300 baud modem for a Commodore 64 that I am not using. I wonder
if Zak would be interested in borrowing it?
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65394
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff Beck/Roger
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 13:23:10
Thanks for that bit of Info....
clif-
Message: 65395
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann on B.H.
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 13:41:17
Ann, I consider you a 'bleeding heart' because not once have I heard
you talk about the criminals victim, only of the poor criminal.
Life in prison for murder, with no parole.... So if I kill John Doe
I will get life in prison with no parole..... So I might as well kill John
Doe and all the people I can... and maybe even a dozen cops while I am at it
because some 'bleeding heart' made it law that no matter what I did, the
max would be 'life in prison with no parole'.
And people wonder why we have 'prison over-crowding'.
Ann, do you remember Greenwalt (sp)? A convicted murderer...that
excaped. He went on a murder spree, killing almost everyone he came in
contact with. If they are in prison, there is always the chance they may
excape! Humans make mistakes..there is ALWAYS a chance. However, once a
criminal is put to death, he can not hurt or kill anyone. There is more
room in the prison with his absence. We the public no longer have to feed
him with tax money.
clif-
Message: 65396
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 13:54:34
Re: "a Jacksonville radio DJ urged the public to turn off their home
appliances to make sure there was plenty of juice available."
I like a man with a sense of humor!
Message: 65397
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Execution/6 of 6
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 14:01:10
A very interesting series Gordon. Thanks for taking the time.
Message: 65398
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 14:05:04
Re: "beheadment is one of the better ways - probably just after lethal
injection."
Why, you blood thirsty lady! Why wouldn't just the lethal injection be
enough?
Message: 65399
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 14:11:19
Re: "Women are not more emotional than men!"
Yes they are. And it starts at a very young age. Most little girls get mad
and cry; most little boys get mad and fight. There is a definite difference
in the physical, mental, and psychological patterns between male and female.
It is so obvious how can you not see it? Are you saying the differences
are all environmental?
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:G
Goodbye, Rod Williams
You were on 12:53
Please hang up now
yZE?3lKvI(N5LVI5:
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