Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - May 3, 1990


*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

Press  to abort

Message: 6413
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Last AHA!
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 19:42:43

So (This I find realy amazing)...Rod Williams actually beleives that
people *should* take responsibility for their own actions.
A-simply-Mazing!
This is a complete turn around from the Rod Williams I know..
I'm stunned...

Message: 6414
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 19:54:34

You should perhaps think about this statement I'm going to make if you
are indeed interested in a thoughtful discussion.
I don't beleive that this world has enough Christians to save it from
itself. The Christian of us don't have these secular humanistic values
that are getting us all into so much trouble. 
You are very quick to accuse without thought on here, Rod.
I'm just saying stop a minute and take a good look about you.
The people shooting each other aren't Christians...the people running
drugs, doing them and killing for the sake of them aren't Christians.
They're not Catholic, Jews, Buhddist or Pentecostals either. 
They're P-E-O-P-L-E.
And until this band of teflon'd nostrils running around unctiously
pointing fingers at their favorite nemisis stops....nothing will
ever prevent its continuance.
I've seen you blame every possible evil on Christians. You lump all
the blame onto one group..to which you don't belong..obviously.
In doing so, you relieve yourself and everyone who isn't a Christian
of any blame, fault or otherwise.
At least that's what you attempt. Guess what? It hasn't done a damned bit
of good has it?
You know why? Because it's a lie. Lies wont solve problems. Never do,
never will.
When you come down off your high and white pedestal, when you can take
responsibility seriously...you'll stop blaming and start acting!

Message: 6415
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: CHRISTIANS
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 02:36:34

You've convinced me.  There is a God.

Message: 6416
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: ATHEISTS
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 02:36:59

You've convinced me.  There is no god.

Message: 6417
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: petrisko/agnostics
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 08:24:07

And you've convinced me. There
is no way to tell if there is a God or not.

Message: 6418
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 17:22:04

Re:  "And you've convinced me. There is no way to tell if there is a God or
not."

Roger, you've got me puzzled.  Somewhere along the line I got the impression
you were a Christian.  It seems though that everything you say sounds like
you are not.  Do you consider yourself a Christian?

Message: 6419
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Is Roger Xtian?
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 18:07:09

He's unsure whether he can tell if he is Christian.

Message: 6420
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last few
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 19:34:58

Mixed up youth of today.

Message: 6421
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 20:01:28

It appears you are incapable of understanding simple logic as evidenced by
not only your discussion with Dean but by the wording of your messages.

It doesn't seem worthwhile to debate with you because whereas the input is
logical thought, your output is so much mishmash.

Sorry guy, perhaps later.
                                Rod

Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 65260
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: membership
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 21:55:30

Thanks you, all--it is good to have status here. I like this BBS.
        John

Message: 65261
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Video GT
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 22:32:39

Sorry Mike, I didn't see your post before I put mine up last night.  If you
don't do weekdays and I don't do weekends that makes us look mutually
exclusive.  Maybe we can work something out.

     - Gordon

Message: 65262
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Sex & Love
Subject: Ann/Hustler
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 22:33:32

Don't know how they get that effect; must use internal forceps or something.
I personally never found Hustler all that appealing; it's almost too coldly
clinical.  A real butcher's-slab approach.  Also, much of the material in
Hustler falls into the category I called "nasty" in my last post, especially
some of the jokes.  That's unless it's changed since Larry Flynt allegedly
got himself saved.  I haven't looked at a copy for several years.

Message: 65263
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Sex & Love
Subject: Daryl
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 22:34:48

I wouldn't argue for one minute against most of what you said, especially
with respect to "style versus substance" and what I might summarize as the
shallowness of values in personal relations.  Also I do see sex as an
extension of some kind of genuinely intimate relationship between two
people, rather than a mutual masturbation procedure.  I think there ought at
least to be a measure of reciprocal trust and honest goodwill between the
two people involved, not just exploitation.  Certainly such a requirement
falls far short of a lifelong bond such as marriage, but to the extent that
it represents genuine friendship toward one another -- even if the
relationship is only short -- it is a kind of commitment.  I think sex
between two people does "mean" something.

Obviously we feel differently about the "rightness" of sex before marriage,
but I guess that's a matter of belief and therefore axiomatic, so there
isn't any point in arguing about it.  Like Ann, I'd probably be unhappy with
the idea of marrying someone without having a sexual relationship first.  I
don't think it's the requirement to "try one another out" that's important
there, so much as the problem I would have with somebody refusing me sex if
we were both headed for a long-term commitment.  I'd be asking myself
questions like "why? is there some problem she hasn't told me about?" and
"what level of trust is there here, really?", and/or bothered by the fact
that her values clashed with mine.  This type of values clash doesn't make
for compatibility.  Perhaps you, with different values, would be unhappy to
marry someone who WOULD have sex beforehand!

Certainly I would expect the quality of a couple's sex life to reflect the
relationship that they have in other ways.  Power struggles in everyday
life, for example, tend to turn into bedroom power struggles.  Still, the
problem with sexuality is that it's often so irrational it can produce nasty
surprises.  You mentioned medical dysfunctions, and these are probably the
easiest to treat.  You didn't say anything about unexpected (and unwanted)
sexual "kinks" of various flavors, which can prove recalcitrant or
impossible to treat.  As regards the effects of sexual abuse, yes, one can
and ought to see a counselor, but success isn't guaranteed by any means.
One woman I knew personally (not the only one!) had this problem, and her
marriage was a disaster from the first night.  In fact, she had what is
popularly called a "nervous breakdown" and they ended up getting a divorce,
or more likely an annulment.  The couple were committed Christians.

I would have thought that a supportive religious faith, if present, would be
of real value in helping to overcome the results of sexual abuse, since the
major effect on the victim is a loss of trust (="faith").  The trouble is
that sexual abuse takes place in all types of families, and unfortunately,
one place there is a rather higher than average incidence of it is in
certain types of fundamentalist "Christian" families.  (I put the word
"Christian" in quotes here for the obvious reason that no one will convince
me these offenders are practicing the spirit of the Christianity they
profess.)  I suspect the reason for this higher incidence is that
intrafamily abuse takes place within a coherent family system of oppression,
and certain very authoritarian forms of religion (not limited to
Christianity) can be used as a tool of such oppression instead of being a
source of support and joy as they ought to be.  Possibly the existence of
this kind of hypocrisy is one of the things that make the atheists on this
board so angry.

Unfortunately, for victims of these family systems their religious faith is
so inextricably tangled up in their minds with the fact of their being
abused that instead of being a help, it can be an insuperable obstacle to
their sorting themselves out.

In the case of the couple I mentioned earlier, I have no doubt that there
was some evidence of a sexual problem before they got married.  What the guy
perceived beforehand, or what he thought about it, I don't know.  If people
were honest with one another then at least they could see what sort of
commitment they were taking on.  The trouble is that people with sexual
problems are so often DIShonest about them -- even to themselves.

Message: 65266
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Sex & Love
Subject: Melissa
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 23:00:46

Jealousy, interesting idea.  Maybe the real problem then is that women are
more discreet about their idealized fantasies, whereas men indulge theirs
more openly without being sensitive to the effect on the women around them.

I think people would be far better off if they could resist all these
artificial images they were bombarded with about how they are "meant" to be.
Faced with all these idealized portraits of muscular men, I just pat my (not
very prominent) tummy and say "oh well, I'm me, so what!"  Actually I find
idealized bodies very boring (since it is physical image we're talking about
here).  I don't see why a woman has to be as skinny as a broomstick, and I'm
not big on pure, smooth, alabaster skin either.  I always think that the
kind of imperfect skin that *real* women have is more real, more
interesting, warmer and more human somehow.  A thought: have you ever seen
the cover of Frida's album "Something's Going On?"  (Oh, it was Ann who was
talking most about perfection though.  Sorry if my posts seem a little out
of sync.  The ones that seem objective and coherent are the ones I've
prepared offline, and are also 24 hours behind in terms of response.  This
one I'm doing online.)

I also agree that you can't make blanket statements about people of either
sex.  There are, however, statistical tendencies for something to apply more
to one sex than the other.  Then simple-minded people stereotype them and
turn them into sexism.  Remember my slogan: "Don't edit reality for the sake
of simplicity"!

Message: 65267
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy
Date: 05/02/90  Time: 23:02:51

Sorry Sandy, that was stupid of me to omit you from the count of women who
use the board regularly.  Don't know how I did it.  That means I've only had
responses from 66.667% of the regular women contributors.  It's still a lot
better than the men's record though...

Message: 65268
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: LAST 100
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 03:24:57

Style IS substance.

Message: 65269
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Sex & Love
Subject: Ann
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 05:55:51

 As to why men (at least this one) don't seem to want to understand women,
perhaps the reason is that women, bless 'em, are so diversified that we
couldn't possibly begin to wade through the sea of emotions, thoughts,
mental patterns, etc. that make up the female population. I know that I have
all I can handle just trying to keep the one I've got happy, without
worrying about womanhood in general! (smile there. She says I'm doing just
fine!)
 As to your comments concerning some men's fetish with girlie mags, I agree
with you. To look at those pics as some kind of reality, and to read the
letters and articles and accept them as a norm,or average condition, is to
set up images that I doubt that any real woman could match. The ultimate end
is disappointment, dissillusionment and misery. If men expect their women to
compare favorably with the Playboy of Penthouse image, it is small wonder
that so many relationships fail. We need first to find satisfaction with
ourselves, and then with the relationships we have formed with each other.
When we can do this, we don't need someone else's warped image of what they
would like the opposite sex to be. That goes for both sides of a marriage.

Message: 65270
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann/65251
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 05:57:31

 I'm sorry that you missed the entire spirit of my post. Try it again, and
read the whole thing this time!

Message: 65271
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa on toilets
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 10:02:28

I remember years ago my husband had such a conversation and it got heated. I
simply ask him why he didn't sit down - what was the big deal. All I do
remember is - he really couldn't give me a good reason and he didn't change!
It seems it is an issue of convenience and or machoism. Why can't men
explain these simple things? -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 65272
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger darling
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 10:16:22

You are a man after my own heart. In this woman's eyes you are not less of a
man for not being that interested in those kind of pix - maybe even more of
a man for NOT wanting or needing to! 
What I don't understand about men - isn't it the women of this world they
need to please - should please? For the most part, they don't, but seem to
be bent on pleasing and doing what other men think they should be doing. Now
I don't know of one woman that would like their man looking at such pix - it
is at the very least, offensive and a put down to the woman. (In her eyes
anyway) Yet men persist - feel almost as if it's expected - their right!
This sort of thing has caused problems between two people - yet the men
won't stop! It would seem to me, that if a man is comitted either in
marriage or a girlfriend and she doesn't like it, he'd stop for the reason
of getting along. Simple? 
Having lived in many different areas and seeing different types of males,
each seem to have their own offences to woman - when we lived in Prescott
and the Wt. Mountains, the men there wern't into girly magazines, but they
chewed tobacco! I don't know of one woman that likes that habit - especially
when they persist in wanting to kiss you with that gunk in their mouths and
spitting constantly. What would a man think of a woman that had such a
habit? She'd be branded a 'tough babe' at best. Oh well - I'm just rambling.
You get my point. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 65273
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley #65269
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 10:22:45

Good post there Pauley - but I don't think men and women are really all that
different - more how they are raised in our society. We are all just humans
and that's it. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 65274
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley #65251
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 10:23:45

Oh? Have you then cleaned a toilet lately or 'sat down'? *Heh
                            -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 65275
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: For sale
Subject: Sanyo 550
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 12:58:48

        Sanyo 550 computer with 256 K RAM, one 360 K disk drive.  Printer
port with cable, Green screen (mono) monitor, WordStar, CalcStar and 
Easy Writer.   This is an MS-DOS computer, though not fully compatible with
IBM, it will run some IBM software.   However, the price on this system is
only $200.00 and I have it at my place for anyone who wishes to see it.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 65276
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Basic hand gun & law
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 13:12:17

        There is a BASIC HAnd gun and Law class/lecture comming up at the
beginning of next month (June 2nd, Sat).  I would like to get some BBS users
to attend.  The first part is the lecture.... then in the afternoon students
who opt to shoot, they have a very basic shoot. 
        I believe the lecture part of the class is only $25.00 and if you
stay for the shoot, it is a total of $40.00.  I only recommend the shoot if
you have never shot before.  If you want to shoot and don't have a weapon,
see me and maybe I can arrange for you to use one of my weapons.
        
        Anyway, I would like to make a GT of it, there is alread one user of
Apollo that has said they will be there...  and I will be there too.

        leave a post if interested or give me a call...

        If you know someone who is interested who is not a BBS user, please
tell them to give Sandy or I a call (843-3346).

       This class is a requirement to go onto more advanced shooting/defense
classes.

                        *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*  Cliff

Message: 65277
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ann/on men
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 13:24:40

Let me ask you a question. When you see a good looking guy with cute 
whatevers, do you give him the once-over ? Would you give him the once-over
in the presence of your husband ? Would you give him the once-over when your
husband isn't around. Now, let's consider the male point of view. Looking
at nude pictures of females is similar to giving a guy the once-over. If
your husband looked at Playboy or Hustler when you weren't around, would
you mind ? How would that be different than looking at some good-looking 
guy ? 

Message: 65278
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Religion
Subject: Cliff/theism
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 13:55:56

  I just now found your reply of two days ago to my overeating message. Did
you do a UIP on that message? It didn't seem to show up in my $ scan and I
only ran accross it when I happened to do a Find on my name.
  A person becomes a theist by suspending reason enough to make a leap of
faith and accept the unknowable. A person becomes overweight by taking in
more calories than they burn. The overweight person can then be indentified
as having this trait of taking in more calories than they burn, just as the
theist can be identified as a person who has suspended logic in at least one
important (large) part of life. Neither one likes to be reminded of this
obviously, but that doesn't make it any less true.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 65279
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Religion
Subject: Mike C.
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 13:59:41

  I just found out that I had missed a couple of messages from Cliff because
they didn't seem to show up on my $ scan. I suspect that he may have UIPed
them because I entered two messages to you which do not show up on my scan
either. They are messages I did a UIP on to correct spelling errors. They
are messages 65252 and 65253, in case you did not see them either. I assume
you did not, since you didn't reply.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 65280
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Religion
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 15:16:08

        No, I did NOT UIP in my reply to you...  You just [S]kipped it the
first time around.  
        But, I have always believed I used reason to become a Christian. My
reasoning being there were just to darn many miracles in life for it to be
an ACCIDENT.  Just to open my eyes and look about has always given me so
much proof.... The feeling is within me.  I am unable to put it into words,
and I am sure you, Roger and Rod will laugh at my post, but so what.  I am
happy and that upsets.... Rod!

        Before I drift off the subject... What I resent, is people like you
who don't believe, stand there and tell me (being a Christian and all) that
I must not reason out my thoughs on life.  It's like you are patting
yourself on the back because you would be offended if you had reasoned
wrongly, and you think that is impossible.  And, just in case you are
wrong...  You want LOTS of company, so you try hard to sway people to your
side of reasoning, sorta like a security blanket.

        Christians have no such fear... right Mike, Paul?

                        clif-

Message: 65281
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Missed post/Dean
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 15:24:53

        Okay, here is what I think happened....  You replied to Mike
Carter's post, and in doing so you almost ran out of time.  So after you
saved the your reply, instead of continuing your scan, you aborted and
logged off.  Now, since you had replied to a post before finnishing a scan,
the system put your saved post number in your profile as the last message
read.
        Most users scan though all the post once real fast...then they
go back and do a second scan, this time replying to the posts they are
interested in replying to.   This way they know what has been said by other
users after the post they are replying to...  

        But...I did NOT use the  cmd to post a new message or change
wording in any old messages.  I use it for spelling corrections as like most
users.

                        *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 65282
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: The SYSOP Speaks
Subject: Fan repair
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 15:31:41

        The power supply fan went out on Apollo, making all sorts of noise.
At first I was in a panic because I thought the Hard Drive was at fault.
Anyway, I picked up a new fan at Radio Shack ($14.95) and everything is fine
now.... and quiet.  The system was down for about 30 min. and got a good
cleaning while I was at it.   The air compressor really comes in handy
cleaning out power supplies.

        The fan was a 12 V DC 0.16A brushless...  Radio Shack had one
exactly like it.  amazing!

                                *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 65283
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: For sale
Subject: Digital PDP 1134
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 15:51:51

        Digital PDP 1134 with 13 data cartridges (RL01K-DC) and 8 manuals

Price...CHEAP!    anyone interested, give me a call.. 843-3346 and I will
place you in contect with the person selling it.

                        *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 65284
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Apollo Tips & Tricks
Subject: Macro
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 15:56:13

This is what my Apollo macro key is ->  *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

I get that everytime I hit the CTRL A keys.  All $tatus users have a macro
key by using CTRL A, if you told the onfig cmd in the ain menu what
you wanted.  (up to a full line)   The onfig will save your selection to
your $TATUS profile, and it can be changed at any time.

        *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=**=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
        *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=**=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

                                                clif-

Message: 65285
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 16:08:19

Re:  "I have been told"

Hey!  Don't listen to them guys.  They're a bunch of "know-nothings".
You're all right in my book.

Message: 65286
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 16:12:32

Re:  "Well Roger,  I want to talk to you about your deodorant.......
You need to use some!"

And all this time I thought it was his mouth wash?

Message: 65287
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 16:13:27

Re:  "Week day nights are best for me too..."

Any night is ok but Saturday night.

Message: 65288
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: the movie
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 16:35:55

        Apollo Shoot-Out II, the Movie will be shown Monday night at
about 7 pm.   

                clif-

Message: 65289
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 17:17:07

I'll be there Cliff!

Message: 65290
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last two
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 19:28:46

sniff.

Message: 65291
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dean H.
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 19:33:59

There is a specific reason why I chose *not* to answer you.
It is because you refuse to listen or acknowledge anything I write.
It's like watching a one sided conversation..you keep repeating yourself
over and over. 
For the record: (1) I do not agree that Christians MUST place reason
aside to meet their descision to love God or accept him..I told you
several times this didn't apply to me.
                (2) To maintain the faith and life a productive life
such as I have so far, reason plays a very major role. It is your
lack of understanding on your behalf that leads you to thinking
otherwise...your misinterpretations are yours alone so please refrain
from labeling me with anymore of your self serving stickers.
 
Since you have not answered the content of my posts, you can carry on
yourself. I will not be participating...not new since I realy never
did.
        
        

Message: 65292
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 19:47:29

It is my faith and knowledge of the truth that allows me to walk without
the nuturing or support from a group consent in life.
The same jackals in these groups who attack anyone who is capable of
holding their own need their group support to survive.
The attacks are on subjects which threaten their own sense of self worth
or belief systems..regardless if the opposing view is outward or
keeping to itself.
What's particularily amusing is to watch them while they attack..
instead of the normal consolations you normally would observe in
a debate, the attacker and the group never make any consolations.
They're always right, no matter what. Dogma and Dogmatic reasoning at
its finest. It's like watching someone make reasonable argument for
an addiction or bad habit. You can listen to it all the time on the
radio...wether it be child pornography or cigarettes...people who
fall into these traps will make every excuse and reason to remain there.
SOmeone once pointed the same phenonema out in car buyers. They called
it the lemon factor. No matter how much a person despises or wishes they
hadn't purchased the car (due to it being a mjor lemon), they'll swear
by it up and down..in some form of perverse self gratification and
loathing from showing they made a bad purchase / decision.
I see this in the posts by those who attack theism. I call it
blind faith...a trait which they despise in theists (heh!)...in that
they blindly accept written guesses and therories as the whoelsome
and unchallengable truth. Well, at least they're dedicated! ;-)

Message: 65293
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: About Cliff
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 20:07:58

Cliff is happy and that makes me damn mad.  I'm furious as all get out.  I
just can't handle it.  -Rod

Message: 65294
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Chit Chat
Date: 05/03/90  Time: 20:13:14

A thought occured to me today and right now I just have the roots of it.  I
may elaborate on the point later on but if anyone cares to finish it, do so.

Christians say that unless you believe in Jesus you cannot be saved and
enjoy the fruits of heaven.  Okay, I got that far.

Christians say that Jesus and God are the same being.  Point two.

If they are the same then how come you gotta believe in a name?  Wouldn't
just believing in one OR the other be the same since they are the same?

I think they are both bogus but that's beside the point.  I had better words
to express this point but Peter has my micro-recorder.  

Anyone care to comment?

To send mail to operator use 
First name:SYSOP
Send mail to Apollo SYSOP:Yes

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:I wish to purchase $tatus for Daryl Westfall based on the sale of shirts 
 2:with his slogan.  In fact I got an order for one today.
 3:
 4:If this is acceptable to both you and Daryl then please give him $tatus, 
 5:leave me mail and the check will be in the mail pronto.
 6:
 7:                                Rod
 8:
 9:P.S.  You are a DORK, too.