Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - May 16, 1990

Mail from Apollo SYSOP
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 09:12:05

Rod..
        Please review your post number 65679.....  You posted that on the
PUBlic board and I think you got a little carried away.  Please use the
COSmos SIG for that type of post.
                
                Thank You
                        clif-
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Okay but Peter was here and we both read that post together.  Then Dean 
 2:stopped by tonight to pick up the GT tape while showing me the Gun Tape 
 3:which, by the way, was really great.  Anyway, Dean could find nothing wrong 
 4:with it (the message) either.
 5:
 6:In it I was just being totally honest.  When I was a Christian I denied that
 7:I looked at other women's asses with lust in my heart but I still looked 
 8:anyway.  Now, any pretty woman's ass that I find good looking takes me 
 9:straight to fantasy ville.
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 65680
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Drug Talk
Subject: response
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 00:00:15

I did not call anybody a drug dealer!!!!! That would not be fair to do
without knowing the person.The only reason this suject is so important to
me,
is because drugs have once destroyed my life. And I was not the user.
I to have tryed drugs in my time, while in the US ARMY, but I saw they were
no good to anyone. I lost a woman I dearly loved and still do to drugs, I
also lost a child, because it went with her. I could not convince her to
stop using, and she still is,because she enjoys them. You would say that it
is her right to do as she pleases, and I agree, but she just bore a child
with severe  medical problems, because of her abuse. That child will never
live a normal life because of his mothers drug abuse, and there is no
justice in that, atleast not that I can see. I will not stop my fight
against drugs, nomatter what anbody says. I could not save my exWife,
because it was destroying me along with her, which by the way is called
codependency aand is just as adicctive as drug abuse. Do not tell me to
legalize drugs, because they would have to be persribed by a doctor. What
would a addict who is lets say pregnant do when she wants drugs? The doctor
would not perscribe them because of the child. what would she do then? She
would go back to her old dealer. So you see it wouldnt work. you say why get
a perscibtion for drugs? Because there are no addicts out there that would
stop using if a doctor told them so. By the way I am in no way or form an
athiest!!!!!!!!!!! I am roman catholic. I do not go to church regulary, but
I do believe in god. I just mentioned this to not be asocciated with the
athiest fraction of this board.

I mentioned earlier that my statement to drop the bomb on all Drug Dealers
was just a figure of speech. I want to get some responses and it worked.
I believe that we have to find a solution to the drug problem, and yes also
the alcohol problem. I dont agree with having to find a solution to
cigarretes, because I have yet to read about somebody killing because they
were desperate for a smoke. I will say again hoping that the D.P. will go
away is not going to solve it, I think is is going to get worse. But you
have to look at the root of it: Gangs young kid think gangmembers are cool
why? because they drive nice cars they have money which the kid looking at a
gang member probaly does not have. How do we solve this?, by making
education look good to this kid, let him see his or hers potential in a real
world. It all come's down to education. You say: but they buy drugs in
school. that would not happen if our educational system was worth a damm.
Our teachers are underpaid and therfore not motivated. How can a child take
example for such a person? IS THIS ALL GETTING TO LONG FOR YOU ALL? I hope
so because it is a HUGE PROBLEM. as you all can see it is not just drugs,
its lots of things. We have to attack it at the root, with better
education,counseling and guidence from others. please try to make me see it
your way, as long as there is still costructive criticisum there is still
hope. I am not a COP bytheway. 
Ive got to go see you all later
========================MAD MAX===========================

Message: 65682
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sigh...Rod!
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 00:30:44

        Re: Post # 65679

        I apollo-gize if anyone is offended...  Looks like Ol'Rod got
carried away with himself.  I hope Rod will correct it....  sigh!

                        clif-

Message: 65683
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ((SHIELDS))
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 01:12:38

        If you users can't keep the PUBlic board cleaner, then you will
force me to place the ((SHIELDS)) into the 100% mode to lock out all
possible children who may log in.  The problem is, it will lock out other
potential adults. 


*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 65684
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Question?
Subject: NO MORE
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 01:41:11

     No more questions by users posted in the (v)ote cmd.???
  
I think we should get to (v)ote on this.

Message: 65685
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Religion
Subject: BIBLE
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 01:47:16

     Why should you believe that the Bible is the Word of God?  Because God
told us it is.  Who says this God ain't logical!

Message: 65686
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ROD!
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 01:59:11

    Rod, will stop thinking about your penis for one minute?  This is
suppose to be a family-oriented board!

Message: 65687
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Drug Talk
Subject: LOCHANSKY
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 02:08:59

     How do you propose we make education (and a part-time job at McDonald's
to earn some spending money - $3.85 an hour at a time) look good to a kid
who KNOWS he can make $$thousands$$ a week selling drugs?  As long as there
is such a high profit margin in selling drugs you can't.  The only way to
take the profit OUT is to legalize.  This would effectively pull the rug out
from under the market.
     I'm sorry to hear about your ex-wife.  Maybe if our society was a
little more open, problems like this could be solved easier.  When you
have a gov't that intrudes upon the privacy of its citizens every day, what
can you expect but fear and misunderstanding?
     Just out of curiosity, did you support or oppose the war in Vietnam?

Message: 65688
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 03:26:37

Re:  "The religious view of sex, other than forgivenication, is that it is
destructive and must lead to ruined relationships, disease, and unwanted
pregnancy."

That's not quite true.  The Judeo-Christian concept does not forbid sex in
marriage.  In marriage, sex is given God's full blessing.  It is only
outside marriage that sex will "lead to ruined relationships, disease, and
unwanted  pregnancy" and is condemned.

Re:  "it is the ignorance fostered by religious attitudes which is most to
blame"

On the contrary, it is when we follow God's standard that we are free from
ruined relationships, disease, and  unwanted  pregnancy."

Message: 65689
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 03:33:58

Re:  "I'm sick of venom like this, spewed simply to raise the ire of the
Christians on this board."

I know just how you feel Daryl.  There's only 2 or 3 people on Apollo who
constantly do this.  I have developed the habit or either skipping their
messages or just refusing to reply to them.  You know the verse about
throwing pearls to pigs. 

Message: 65690
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dog
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 03:37:03

Re:  "the slightest tongue-in-cheek comments"

Get real Dog.  I would hardly consider your comment "the slightest
tongue-in-cheek comment."

Message: 65691
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger Mann
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 05:17:10

 I doubt that any human alive could convince you that the Bible is the Word
of God, Roger. That will have to be the work of the Holy Spirit in your
life. (And I sometimes wish He would hurry!)

Message: 65692
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger's theology
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 05:22:50

 As you stated your beliefs, Roger, I would not call you an atheist at all.
Your message sounded like a perfect example of a self-centered, humanistic,
if it feels good, do it, philosophy.
 Of course, it puts God in "His place" somewhere down the line of values,
but it's not atheistic.

Message: 65693
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: More Mann theology
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 05:26:40

"Discoveries made in the physical realm can be used to modify beliefs held
in the spiritual realm." R. Mann.
 Since man, created in God's image, is a spirit, having a soul, dwelling in
a physical body, it would seem to me that you have your priorities a bit in
reverse, Rog. Of course, that ties right in with the secular humanism you
stated in your earlier post. At least you're consistent.

Message: 65694
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean H.
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 05:29:58

 If I recall your statement correctly, you referred to "the religious view",
which, by omission would tend to isolate what you believe the view of the
religionists to be. Yes, that would be inaccurate.

Message: 65695
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: News Today
Subject: Jeff/DNA
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 08:53:12

I'll read it and we can discuss it.

Message: 65696
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: Rod/dejavu
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 08:55:57

At least we know we can go through this at least one more time. In an
infinite universe with an infinite amount of time...        

Message: 65697
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: Rod/Eve
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 08:56:32

And you have proved it time and time again !

Message: 65698
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: paul/bs
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 09:01:41

In other words, there is no reason to believe the Bible is the Word of
God.

Case closed.

Message: 65699
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: Paul's theology
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 09:05:18

Thank you for calling me humanistic. I believe in humanism. It will save
the world. As far as being self-centered, I don't see how you arrived at
that conclusion. Would you mind telling me ?

Message: 65700
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: paul.humanism
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 09:08:15

Not "secular" since my humanism is based upon the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Humanism, yes. You did not refute my statement that "discoveries made in
the physical realm can be used to modify beliefs held in the spiritual
realm". Indeed, you cannot, for my example cannot be refuted, can it ? As 
far as priorities are concerned it is better to live an integrated and
whole life based upon "truth" no matter where you find it.

Message: 65701
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Peter on [V]ote
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 09:19:15

        Okay Peter, how would you word such a [V]ote?  I know if I word it,
some users like B.D. might not [V]ote.   Seems I always leave some off the
wall option out.

                        clif-

Message: 65702
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: holy spirit
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 12:21:44

Paul has brought up an interesting problem. When asked to show me that the
Bible is the Word of God, he said that he believes it because the Holy
Spirit has led him to believe. I believe that Paul is deluded. This leads
to this poser: How do we tell if Paul is deluded ? If we were psychiatrists
testing a person for mental illness, and that person said that they believed
in an invisible being that tells them things, and when asked if that being
was real, we would commit them to a mental institution. Why shouldn't Paul
be committed ? He believes that the Holy Spirit is real and gives him faith
to believe in all sorts of impossible things. Perhaps we should ask Paul for
some proof (you know what I mean Cliff) that this invisible being really
exists.

Message: 65703
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 13:15:50

  On your first point you seem to have misunderstood what I said. On your
second point you are saying that if we submit to an authoritarian
dictatorship in the area of personal relationships some minor problems will
be solved. That is much like saying if we had a total police state with 24hr
surveilance (sic?) of everyone in the country there would be no crime. It
may be true, but it is defininately not worth that price. In the real world,
the ignorance fostered by trying to keep sex secret and dirty according to
the wishes of the religious contributes greatly to these problems.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 65704
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 13:27:31

  By referring to the religious view, meaning the view held by religious
people, I did not in anyway exclude the possibility that that view might
also be held by others. Understanding that, can you tell me how my statement
was inaccurate? You and Bob both seem to have missed the meaning entirely.
You assume that it had to be an exclusive view, although there was no
provision to that effect, and Bob seems to have inverted the context. Did
everyone else think I meant something else too, or just these two guys?
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 65705
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff L.
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 13:34:18

  It is too bad that your family was hurt by bad choices about drugs. You
will notice that drug laws did not stop it, and probably never could. What
drug laws do accomplish is to add violence and corruption to the
self-inflicted misery of drug abuse. Destroying a whole culture in a failed
attempt at keeping a minority of individuals from harming themselves is a
horrible policy. Drug users themselves would be much better off without a
drug war and that excuse for destroying one right guaranteed by the
Constitution after another could be ended before we end up in a worse police
state than Eastern Europe just overthrew.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 65706
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 14:13:34

Re:  "but it is defininately not worth that price"

I guess one could say there is a price to pay to be a Christian, but I
believe it is more than worth it.  If I had to make the decision all over a
again to become a Christian, I would grab it with all my strength.  You
might call me a very satisfied user.

Re:  "the ignorance fostered by trying to keep sex secret and dirty
according to the wishes of the religious"

Well, maybe you know some religious person who insists that sex is dirty and
should be kept some kind of a secret, but I don't agree with that, and I
can't find it in my Bible either.  Maybe you been talking to the wrong
people.  I'm just trying to point out that I think you are not seeing the
whole picture.  Actually I don't think you are looking at the picture I am
looking at.  Jim Jones had a picture; it definitely was the wrong picture. 
There were a number of others who are looking at the wrong picture.

Message: 65707
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 14:20:47

Re:  "Bob seems to have inverted the context"

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and go back and read your original
message.  But it seems you were blaming religion (or Christianity) for a lot
of problems.  The reality is there would be no problems like AIDS at all if
we were just to follow the 10 commands for example.  If I inverted your
context, I apologize.  But when I perceive a distortion or error made
against what I believe, I will usually speak up.  Sometimes not.  I have
decided not to reply to certain persons on this BBS when they rant and rave
against God and the Bible.

See you later Dean!

Message: 65708
Author: Mike Middleton
Category: Religion
Subject: Reed Sea
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 16:15:57

Paul, remember God's inerrant Word that we should honor and not twist around
for our own doctrines? It is REED SEA in there. Red Sea is an error in
translation. REED Sea, God said it, I believe it, Oceans don't "part." THat
is superstitious magic. God is the same fellow who set up the Law of Gravity
and would not break it our of Love for the Creation. When a doctrine and the
Bible do not match, consider the need to change the doctrine, however
cherished it is from our childhood or something. It was the Reed "Sea" which
was a swampy region and the mud stuck the Pharoah's chariots until high
tide. No mystery.
 
 .  _|_
 .   | 
 .   |          Mike

Message: 65709
Author: Mike Middleton
Category: Religion
Subject: Logos theos
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 16:21:20

Because developing Christianity need to compete with pagan religions who
claimed the Logos theos was in their possession, so some documents and
letters were "canonized" and anyone who didn't accept them as the Word of
God was an enemy of the Catholic Church. So, one good reason to accept the
Bible as verbally inspired is to keep the RCC from putting you on the rack
as a heretic. Another one is if you are real lonely and find a group of
people who will accept you and call you "brother" and pretend to care about
you, if you buy into their doctrines and "God wrote the Bible" is one of
those. Then you could have friends. There's the two big reasons people buy
into the absurdity about the Bible's nature and authorship. As it is clear
here, those same people don't have a clue what the Bible really says or
means or how to live lives dedicated to the teachings it contains.
 
 .     /\\
 .    {@.@}
 .     )"(     Mike

Message: 65710
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 17:03:34

  Maybe there wouldn't be any AIDS if everyone followed the ten
commandments, but that is like saying that there wouldn't be any racial
problems if{blacks were all enslaved or sent back to Africa. Imposing one
group's set of arbitrary rules upon everyone because they say that those
rules came from their God, (which many people do not agree with) is a
solution worse than the problem. It works out just great for the satisfied
user who buys into the rules, but the rest of the world   hasn't bought in
and there is no justification for trying to force them to based on the
Bible. Laws against fraud and coercion deal with human problems on a
rational basis, and free the individual to prosper or suffer as best he can.
Enforcing biblical law upon everyone, rather than the natural law (which
includes the rational parts of biblical law anyway) is repugnant to all but
the Christian (or it should be if it they aren't too apathetic to care).
   See You Later,
      Dean H.

Message: 65711
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Question?
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 18:07:31

        Just what Commandment is it that you don't like or find repugnant?

Just curious....

                        clif-

Message: 65712
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Repugnant...
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 18:23:07

        Speaking of repugnant...  MLK DAY for the THIRD time. Now we have to
honor this creep who was a womanizer and a Communist sympathizer.
I disliked this person when he was alive, and I still dislike him when he is
dead.   Might as well had Mofford raise the Hammer & Sickle over the State
Capital.
        
        Why do they KEEP taking the right for the PEOPLE to vote on this
issue away.  We got to go though collecting signatures on petitions all over
again...in the HOT summer months of Phoenix.

                        clif-

Message: 65713
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last/MLK
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 22:59:33

Martin Luther King, Jr. fought a much needed war without violence on his
armies part.  I lived in New Orleans when he was doing his stuff and I found
it deplorable that blacks could NOT sit in the front of the bus, had their
own separate restaurants or a outside window where they had to order from,
had their own drinking fountains, if any at all.

I heard many times the whites calling black men old enough to be their grand
father, BOY.  Boy, come here, do this, do that.  

I couldn't believe what I was seeing after having moved from Los Angeles
where I resided for two years to the deep south.  I found the experience
very interesting indeed.  It could have been done with a lot of violence and
somehow I wouldn't have blamed them because of the way they were constantly
being $hit upon.  

You don't see anyone calling for a Malcolm X day because that man taught
that all whites were of the devil.  On the other hand MLK believed that all
men were brothers of the same planet.

For the sake of all blacks everywhere there should be a special day honoring
a black person and of all of the blacks I can think of I choose MLK over the
rest.  He even beats out all the black athletes.

So what is a few woman here and there and believing that all are brothers??

Message: 65714
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Holy Ghost
Date: 05/16/90  Time: 23:04:38

Roger, Paul has been trying to sick the HG on me since 1984.  He, according
to him, has prayed for me time and again.  Something must be wrong
somewhere.

In the meanwhile I continue to raise a family of beautiful children
(although they do tend to bite Christians) and run a good business.  

As you probably realize debating a Christian is akin to debating either a
rock or a stuck record.  

It was recently pointed out to me that the only intelligent debates were
from the days when the likes of James Taranto, Lippard, Cervelli, Ianuzzi
and a few others debated with logic instead of referring to the same
out-dated crappy, error ridden book.  No fun in there.

Thanks to Dean Hathaways latest messages that there is logic on the board
and I wish that Gordon Little hurries back, not to mention Zak.
                                Rod