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Apollo BBS Archive - May 8 - 12, 1990
Mail from Apollo SYSOP
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 00:45:29
What Apollo GT tapes do you have? Dean would like to make the Apollo movie
and we are trying to find all tapes of Apollo users we can borrow.
With all the tapes, Dean can make "Apollo, the MOVIE".
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply
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1:I guess I have some footage of the "Rocket GT". Sounds like a good idea,
2:the Apollo Movie.
Mail from Apollo SYSOP
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 16:40:05
Thanks Rod, Got the check for Westfall's $tatus renewal for one year.
It will be added to the "BBS users for Christ" fund. Thanks and God bless
you Rod.
by the way, Gordon Little enjoyed the film with you at the Bob's Big
Boy GT. Your turned up eye-brows showed up real well. I hope we can put
together a good movie with all the tape we are getting. Ann said she has
two tapes that she is going to let us use.
clif-
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply
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1:Is Gordon any relation to Dean? I'm pleased my eyebrows showed up real good
2:and the fact I showed up at all just proves that I am not a vampire. See?
$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 6442
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Daryl / 6437
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 18:23:09
(BTW) Welcome back to $.
Egads...I'm trembling with a miasma of dead reckoning unbelief...
could it be true that SOCIETY is made up of individuals?
Arrghh!
That means that if personal accountability doesn't exist, nor can
societal accountability.
Me thinks Societal accountability is just another secularistic way
of conveniently disposing of responsibility altogether, without the
disposers being aware of that.
To me, Societal accountability is like having red herrings for the
main course .
Message: 6443
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/Agno-Christian
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 07:18:15
And people say I'M confused!
*grin*
Message: 6444
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger/6426
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 07:27:53
That is why I against the practice of an "altar call," as I've said earlier.
It can (IMHO) potentially pressure someone into "making a decision" that he
or she is unsure of in his or her mind. Pressure by one's peers during an
altar call can make one feel "forced" into Christianity.
This is why I feel that one should be given the opportunity to attend
classes on Biblical instruction, and THEN make a decision whether or not to
join that church. Furthermore, that decision should not be pressured, and
the person should not be looked down upon for desiring not to become a
member.
This was done for me at the church I currently attend, and I am thankful to
them for it.
Message: 6445
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Rebuttal
Subject: Roger/6439
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 07:31:23
(I did not mean to hit "R"ebuttal as the category, sorry.)
I didn't ask "how" you made the decision, but "where" you make the decision
of what is right and wrong in the Bible. Where do you draw your boundary
lines on what God can be or do? How do you make the decision to read the
Bible and say "this is true" or "this is untrue?" In short, what is your
yardstick for truth?
Message: 6446
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/Thanks/6441
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 07:32:01
You are certainly welcome!
Daryl
Message: 6447
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike/SociResponse
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 07:35:19
And if societal accountability does not exist due to the lack of an
existance of personal accountability, then, then since, um.... AAAAAA-
AAAAUURRRRRRAAAAAARRRRGHHHH!
Don't do that to me, Mike! (Heh heh heh)
Message: 6448
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Question?
Subject: That's RIGHT
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 07:35:56
How am I a $tatus user again?
(Spock eyebrows)
Message: 6449
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: daryl/confused
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 11:07:47
Who said I'm confused ? Actually it has taken these many years to wipe out
the emotional trauma inflicted by the Baptists church in its attempt to
brain-wash me into belief. It has only been in the last 15 years or so that
I have been able to think clearly about what religion is all about and what
the relation of the fundamentalists is to my own world-view.
Message: 6450
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: daryl/6445
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 11:14:51
I'll give an example. Take the Joshua stories in the old Testament. The
crimes committed by Joshua are clearly crimes because I don't believe
in a killing God. The idea of a killing God is in total opposition to the
idea of God that Jesus represents. That is, a God who is loving and
forgiving. So, one of the yardsticks I use is does this message increase or
decrease the idea of forgiveness, tolerance, love. Another example that I
reject is the story of Ananias and his wife in Acts. This story is a
regression to the OT kill-em God, and therefore not a message from God.
Likewise, when people use verses to bash others, those verses are most
likely
suspect. Another example. In Matthew Jesus utters some pretty strong
anti-Semitic words about the priests. This is so out of character and so
against the idea of tolerance and love that it must have been added by the
writer to bolster his or her own prejudice. So, in short, I think we take
the central message of Jesus which is love, tolerance, understanding,
turning the other cheek and compare it with the message of the passage. If
it does not fit, I reject it.
Message: 6452
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Entertainment
Subject: last
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 19:38:24
I goofed...sorry about the number skipping...I had to delete 6451
because it was an incomplete message and I meant to [A]bort it rather
than [S]ave it. Those keys are too close!
Anyone who reads the entire book of Matthew and turns around and says
what you just stated gives me the impression that you either;
(A) Wishfully use this as an example to suit your specific bent
or
(B) Is incapable of reading and connecting passages in context with
each other.
Kinda like when Jesus got riled with the money changers...it doesn't
mean he's not kind and loving at all. It means he felt strongly about
something so obviously destructive ...
Read into it whatever you wish. In fact, you could read into it that
Jesus was against bankers if you'd like. Or you could say that Jesus
*hated* money. Doesn't make it true, but you can say it does.
Message: 6453
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Daryl
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 05:59:23
It seems to me that you have a somewhat incorrect concept of the altar call
as it is given, at least anywhere I have ever heard it.
The altar call is not an invitation to join the church, or any church. It
is an invitation given to become one in the body of Jesus Christ by publicly
acknowledging Him as one's personal saviour, and the Lord of one's life.
People can come under conviction at any time, but are especially sensitive
to the moving of the Holy Spirit during a Spirit anointed service. I think
that any fellowship of believers that failed to give an individual the
opportunity to respond to the calling of the Spirit is negligent in their
responsibility before God.
Message: 6454
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/6449
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 06:02:52
Sure sounds like secular humanism to me. "Boy, am I ever great! I'm so
good, I'll just give GOd second place in my life, or maybe even third. Maybe
I'll even rewrite that silly book that everyone thinks He wrote. Hmmmm. The
Bible according to ROger. Sounds good."
barf
Message: 6455
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 06:11:05
So you don't believe in what you call a "killing God". THen I can presume
that you also don't believe in a righteous God, or a just God, or even a
dependable anad stable God, who can be depended on to be consistent in every
aspect of His being.
"The fear (reverence) of God is the beginning of wisdom". How could one
reverence a wishy-washy God who in one word condemns something as sin and
abomination, and in the next breath allows His creation to wallow in it
without any fear of righteous retribution?
Just as a child learns no respect for a parent who is inconsistent in
discipline or attitude, God's children could not be expected to respect or
revere a heavenly Father who can't make up His mind.
To say that such and such an act is worthy of death, and then not execute
the prescribed penalty is inconsistent with God's WOrd that says "I AM the
Lord. I change not." Praise God for his consistency and dependability!
Message: 6456
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/Scripture
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 06:58:41
I see that you understand God to be loving, and forgiving. But he is also
just, righteous, and holy. There are things about God that, given our limit-
ed knowledge and intellect, we cannot understand. I know that God is just
and fair, and does not dispense justice in an unfair manner, even though it
may not make sense to us why he did what he did. But to eliminate those
things about God that you do not understand, is to attempt to mold him into
your own image of what you think he should be. Rather than disregarding what
you do not understand, why don't you research into why these things
happened? There are some excellent commentaries out there that can shed some
historical and contextual light on some of the more difficult books and
passages. I highly recommend the "NIV Study Bible." You have to understand
that, though the message of the Bible is timeless, that there are some
things that come together a little better when you understand a few things
about the time and place in which they were written, along with being able
to view them in a wider context. If you would like to see an NIV Study Bible
sometime, let me know, and I would be more than happy to let you examine
mine.
Message: 6457
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike/Roger
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 07:16:21
Yes. Also, when Jesus was chastising the Scribes and Pharisees, he was not
being "anti-Semitic." One, he was a Jew himself... BUT, he knew their hearts
and minds. He chastised their hypocrisy, pride, greed, self-indulgence, and
wickedness. He did not hate them, but what they did. They honored God with
their lips, but their hearts were far from him, and their hearts were
hardened. They nitpicked at him over what they THOUGHT were infractions of
the Law by Jesus. When Jesus healed on the Sabbath, they did not praise God
for it; rather they tried to chastise him for working on the Sabbath, and
even said that he was driving out evil spirits by the power of Beelzebub.
They were ceremonially clean, but on the insides their hearts were black.
He chastised Christians no less (The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia
in Revelation).
Message: 6458
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Rebuttal
Subject: daryl/bad god
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:25:09
Let's read Joshua together. It doesn't take a commentary to understand
the use of YHWH to justify killing these poor people. It makes me sick.
It makes me want to puke. This stuff is evil ! By anybody's measure.
Message: 6459
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Pauley on Roger
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 10:34:57
I go along with Roger in not believing in a 'Killing God'! Doesn't make any
sense or goes along with what Jesus taught. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 6460
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 11:22:07
Ah shutup.. you haven't read the bible and the only time you get into
discussions is to take a knife and stab it into someone in the
middle of the discussion. Your poison is worthless here.
Message: 6461
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: killing god
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 13:17:54
Interesting. The book I am reading _Who Wrote The Bible_ states that the
folks who wrote the P version (Numbers, Leviticus) were Priests and they
had a view of God as the meanest man in town. The JE (Yahweh/Elohim) group
that wrote the other parts of the Pentateuch, viewed God as merciful and
forbearing. So, we get this difference of opinion even in the very earliest
days of the religion. I think we have hit on a fundamental (no pun intended,
HAH) difference that is manifested right here with the folks who want to
"hang 'em" and the "wimpy, bleeding-heart liberals". Guess which one Jesus
Christ was ? (he was no wimp, but think about it).
Message: 6462
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 15:19:02
Re: "It makes me sick. It makes me want to puke. This stuff is evil !"
Hey Cliff! I think we got a problem here. I think Rod Williams is logging
in under Roger's name and leaving messages!
Message: 6463
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 16:32:57
Nothing new really, I don't think it's Rod logging in under a different
name but who knows?
Unimportant. I see it as the usual attack on the Bible's validity and
truthfulness...this has been an ongoing effort since the Bible was out and
even before then. ANytime you get such a concentration of truths and
put them in one place, it's sure to attract the negative elements. Always
has always will.
There's literally thousands of anti-theist like books out. All pretty much
attempting to do the same thing. Sometimes they succeed in convincing
someone sometimes they don't.
Really, anymore I am kinda feeling like Paul is. Let them doubt and keep
doubting because they will doubt for the rest of their lives.
Uncertainty is a part of life we all accept. If they wish to remain in
doubt about something we know need not be doubted, let them. You can
lead a horse to water but you cannot force him to drink.
They are wasted time and effort anymore.
Message: 6464
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike/6460
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 20:51:47
Mike, careful with the words. Ok?
Message: 6465
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/Who Wrote
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 20:52:24
The book is THEORY, Roger.
Message: 6466
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike/Last
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 20:57:02
We can't change hearts; only God can. And obviously some hearts are so
hardened that no amount of Bible discussion is going to soften them up.
Message: 6467
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: biblical reality
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 22:01:33
Isn't better to believe in reality that fantasy ? If your belief is
based on a fantasy, your belief is worthless. Less than worthless because
you can never find the truth. If, on the other hand, one is awake to
new possibilities and greater understanding, then one's faith may become
strengthened because it is based firmly on stronger grounds.
I think it is extremely important to understand that the theological basis
for each of the various versions is based in part, anyway, on the politics
of the time. For example, the Aaronid priest who wrote the "P" version
of the Bible wanted to show that sacrifices should be made in one central
location, i.e., the Temple. The JE folks, however, had no prohibition
against sacrifices made anywhere. The JE folks, BTW, included Moses. Now,
why did the Aaronid priesthood want sacrifices to be made centrally ?
Because it established them as the only persons who could forgive sins. Now,
do you see echos of this in our own religion ? You bet ! We have Catholic
priests who are designated as the only ones who can forgive sins, and we
have the protestants who take the old JE approach and say that God forgives
sins for each individual. Now, how does this belittle the Bible ? How does
this make the Bible any less of a document ? It doesn't ! It brings it
alive, and makes it more useful to us.
Message: 6468
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: theory
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 22:02:23
And, my friend, what is wrong with THEORY ?
Message: 6469
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Daryl/hardhearted
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 22:03:16
I think it is the Bible-believers that have the hard hearts. Open
your eyes, that you may see. Wake up !!!!
Message: 6470
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Daryl/6465
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 06:08:08
"The book is THEORY, Roger."
The THEORY is HOGWASH, Daryl.
Message: 6471
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Faith By Evidence
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 07:08:07
I don't believe that faith can be attained by evidence, for that makes faith
a human work. If Christ himself came down and performed a miracle today on
live coast-to-coast television, the first response from non-believers would
be a mad rush to DISPROVE what just happened.
I believe that, though JEDP theory is interesting, the majority of evidence
rests upon Mosaic authorship. Neither possibility changes what is written in
the Pentateuch, so I think the emphasis should be placed upon what is
written, and not who wrote it.
Message: 6472
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/6469
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 07:09:17
Wake up and join the rest of the "world", huh?
Message: 6473
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Faith by evidence
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 09:24:14
I think that there is a difficult question that must be answered. When do
you use faith to believe ? (What?) and when do you accept evidence
indicating something contrary to opinion. Quite frankly, the idea of Mosaic
authorship is a tradition, certainly not something writ in the heavens by
God. Thus, the JEDP helps eliminate that confusion. Also, understanding how
things are put together helps understand why some stories seem to be
contradictory, for example the story of Noah where he either puts 2 of each
kind or 7 of each clean kind. Whether you accept the story of Noah is
another matter, likewise the story of the Garden of Eden. I think it is
important to understand the Garden of Eden, where the story arose (if
possible) and how it got into the Bible. Whether it is accepted literally or
not, it tells the message of the separation of man from God's grace. The
purpose of the Bible, as I see it, is to show the way back to God. The way
back is through the cross for us.
Message: 6474
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Theory
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 11:02:26
Theories are wonderful ideas, concepts and summaries derived from
puzzles of all varieties known. Nothing inherently wrong with a
theory at all. It's the use and abuse of them that is wrong.
WHen a theory is passed off as fact, hard evidence, irrefutable,
undenyable and impossible to change and anyone who doesn't follow this
regimented theory chastized for their differing viewpoint...
That's when theories are wrong.
When you understand something differently and are called "A sleeper",
and any one of a barrage of ad hominem insults, the perpetrators of
the insults are using their theory as fact and attempting to sell it as
such.
If the bible were to disappear today never to be seen again, my faith
in God would not bend, fold or mutate one iota. Because after all the
stones have been thrown, names and hatred sung, Jesus Christ who died
on a cross for my sins and yours is still there for me. I can feel
him in my heart, I can witness his will and rely on his love. These are
things not of this earth and not of limitation, bounds or other human
measuring sticks that will all one day be washed out and dissolve like
so many soap bubbles.
To think that one would live and die by what science says..the limited
and insignificant abilities of men alone. Science told us the world
was flat and anyone who didn't agree got the same as Christians today.
Nothing has changed. What science can't explain, it fears and hates.
Message: 6475
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike on me
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 14:12:32
Sorry, but I have read the Bible and that is the conclusion I come to. I
also am not spreading poison either. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 6476
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: The minister
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 14:21:43
At the risk of spreading some more of my poison that Mike accused me of -
let me tell a true story ..
Years ago when I belonged to the Lutheran church, we became very good
friends with the minister/pastor. In one conversation he told us that one of
the terrible things about going to Bible syminar was the atheists it
produced! The future Lutheran pastors go through many years of Bible study
and training. Evidently, through this study, they come to not believe in
what they are suppose to teach! He said out of his class of 75 or so, half
were atheists and they still went on to become pastors and have a church.
He said that the studies produced doubts about the Bible. I remember being
quite shocked at the time on hearing such a thing from our beloved pastor
and wondered if he was one of them, but didn't have the nerve to ask at that
time. Today I certainly would without hesitation.! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 6477
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Bible Study
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 18:42:26
That's one topic where I'd have to agree. So many people will call
themselves Christian and not have one idea of what it really is.
Sure. A lot of things are hard to grasp..like how God could always have been
and such...and how the universe never ends. In our finite capacity,
we can grasp but a small portion of the overall picture. How fascinating
it is to stand on a dark mountaintop far away from cities and stare upward
into the mass of tiny lights. It is then you begin to realize how just
uncertain things are, how small you are and your overall insignificance
in relation to where you are. The distances alone are staggering.
A lot of people..and I do mean a LOT of people are sheep. They'll go
along with whatever seems to be generally recognized as good and a normal
thing to do. Trying to be a pastor of any church without really knowing
or having Christ as your personal saviour would be iffy at best.
There's been a lot of people I have talked to who are not called to Christ
at all..but they often like to listen and puzzle over it. Nope, I doubt
it's a puzzle to them. It's a calling because they keep comming back
for more. As one gets older, ones heart gets harder and harder and
harder. It's inevitable due to the society and general condition of
a world hell bent on personal pleasures over responsibility.
In fact, I predict that within my lifetime I doubt I will ever hear of
Ann Oudin accepting Jesus as her personal saviour and allowing him to
be a major part of her life. Simply because I think she's incapable of
allowing herself to open her heart so full of hurt to a God she doens't
want to know.
Message: 6478
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike on Jesus
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 09:24:22
I do not profess to believing the way you do, but it might come as a shock
to you - I do believe in Jesus - always have, always will. I have NEVER said
EVER that I was an athiest or an agnostic. I have my way of believing is
all. You've just never asked! You assume I spread evil because I don't agree
with you. Wrong!
I have went the Bible route - the Sunday school teacher route - the church
going route - the doubting route - the reading against the Bible route - and
have come to my own conclusions about it all. I know in my heart that I
don't know if any of it's true or not - if there's a God - if Jesus existed
- if the Bible is 100% true or not - I choose to believe what I believe. It
is all excepted on faith and faith alone re: of what you or anybody else
says. You have no proof anymore than I have except what's in your heart.
I do not beleive that God is a God of killing either, but of love only and
understanding. We just don't know all that much about Him and if He is
indeed there, then he will know how I feel. See? God is a personal thing to
each individual that believes in Him. That is why Christians are at odds
many times. Who knows? Who cares who is right?
I find that if I live my life using Jesus as an example - not to go to
Heaven, but to just get along and find a little happiness in this world - to
get along with my fellow man, is enough for me. Leave it to God what happens
to me. I certainly can't out guess Him and what's His purpose for me - all
of us. I don't think you can either. If He is just a fantasy that mankind
has made up - I haven't lost much because I'm no religious fanatic.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 6479
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: ann/belief
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 11:28:40
That makes two us. And that answers the question of whether I'm alone
in the way I believe. I think there are millions of us, like you and me,
who are quiet believers who don't go around ranting and raving and making
a big deal out of it.
Message: 6480
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Religion
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 17:19:00
Boy, do I wish I had time to read these posts carefully! I, also,
wish I had time to reply. Suffice it to say, I am rather busy.
How about a synopsis of this argument?
Or, better yet ........... let me know who wins ........... (hehehe)
I have encountered people like Roger before. They consider religion from an
intellectual perspective and nothing else. They want to Reason and Reason
only. Not even a bolt of lightening striking their head with a note attached
saying something like "From me to you, God" will convince them because they
would be arguing the reality of the bolt and the authenticity of the note
and, indeed, if the God we are arguing about is the God that signed the
note.
You know, given the shape of the peanut, I conclude women evolved
from the peanut. (anyone want to dispute that statement?)
Then again, looking at the woman of an older age, I must conclude she first
evolved from the peanut then metamorphisized into an apple. There lies the
connection between the apple and the biblical account of the fall of man and
the apple and the reason why the bible keeps saying 'the fruit of thy womb'.
With that in mind, I suggest us thinkers and scientists concentrate our
efforts towards the apple, I think we can find the missing link.
Message: 6481
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 17:57:25
Re: "I do believe in Jesus - always have, always will."
See, I told you Annie was a Christian! :-) (-:
Message: 6482
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Sandy
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 05:47:28
Now I don't think I'll ever eat another apple! I may well be eating
somebody's granny! What a thought!
Message: 6483
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann/Pastor
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 07:55:20
Would you be willing to give me his name?
Message: 6484
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Daryl/name
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 08:36:15
Gads - that is a long time ago - I just remember his last name Pastor
Hindrix. Not even sure on the spelling. He had been the paster of the Holy
Cross Lutheran church, Missouri Synod for years - some where in La Puente,
Calif. Why - you think you might know him? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 6485
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 10:21:09
Yeah, his first name was Jimmy and he had this really awesome
choir...
Message: 6486
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann on Jesus
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 10:25:32
The poison I refer to is the spiritless and gutless side-attacks
I see you putting in when something hateful is written about
anyone who believes differently than you or roger or especially
Rod Williams.
You know what I'm talking about. It may not seem that way to you,
but I call the shots the way I see them and make no mistake,
if I think they're poison, I
will write it that way.
Message: 6487
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann / Roger
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 10:28:26
Tell you what.
Since Ann thinks I'm being unfair and Roger thinks I'm a hateful
individual because I disagree with him, I'll keep my posts
to the CHRistian SIG and the PUBlic sig.
That way life can be happier for them
Message: 6488
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann/Pastor Hindrix
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 22:12:03
No, just someone I would be interested in talking to.
Message: 6489
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike/6485
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 22:12:55
And it was really cool how he would burn his guitar in front of the pulpit
right after the sermon and just before the offering. DUDE!
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 65400
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last / Annie
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 18:12:18
I think it must be Anns negative attitude towards emotional responses
that clouds her judgement.
She's the only female I know of that doesn't acknowledge the diference.
I personally don't see where someone would classify one or the
other as inherently bad or faulty.
If we were all logical, then this world would be a terrible place to live
in.
If we were al emotional, the same applies.
The women have a distinct difference in the balance of these two...more
on the emotional. Suggesting that Anns response is more emotional than
logical to begin with.
Message: 65401
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Question?
Subject: Gordon
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 18:13:12
Yes, very nice...but I must have missed your personal viewpoint on
the whole issue.
Message: 65402
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: TONITES GT
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 18:13:56
Unfair!
Message: 65403
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak/modem
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 19:20:35
Dean, I'll raise you to a 1200bps modem. Where's Zak? He has a few of my
CDs...
Message: 65404
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on rights
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 19:23:10
Finally! Somebody sees the problem with a "kill them ASAP" policy. You
must remember that the Bill of Rights is there to protect YOU. Don't forget
that it prohibits "cruel or unusual punishment" (or is that AND?). You
bloodthirsty lot should think about that -- some of your proposed
punishments would be UNCONSTITUTIONAL !!!
Message: 65405
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean H.
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 20:32:35
You're right so far--either God or your crystals have to be posited
an existence without beginning. If there were a beginning, there must be a
Beginner--some one or some thing which starts it. So, the first starter has
to be an eternal something--something which was not started. (There is a
good logical argument to the effect that an unstarted something also can
have no ending, but that's for another day.)
Now, whether it is your crystals or God, something created or
started something which has developed into the world we presently know. If
that something is your crystals, then please be advised that I and many
others worship those crystals, we feel that they demand a certain homage
from us, and we call them God. Any body who is eternal and who can start
with a cloud of gas and let this world evolve (or can say, "Let there be
light," and find it good that there is light) can cause me to genuflect and
adore.
Message: 65406
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon/executions
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 20:42:38
There is not enough "killer instinct" in the world today, in spite
of what you beg the question with. Those warped twisted criminal who
perpetrate heinous crimes on innocent people deserve a fair trial, a
thorough review, the chance for appeal, and good counsel. But fourteen years
of expensive legal delays is a travesty of justice and a honey cart for
lawyers who suck an income from the community by demanding the system's
money to represent the criminal. We let this go on because there is too much
of the teary-eyed liberal limp-wristed anti-community force.
Message: 65407
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: execution.
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 20:49:08
Wish I had time to answer that last one--the execution of the criminal is
the right, duty, obligation, of society, after PROVING him guilty. It does
not take 14 years!
Message: 65408
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Emotions
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 22:03:12
I disagree with Mike C., Bob T. and who ever else said that woman are more
emotional than men by definition of their sex.
Little boys cry and little girls cry. At some point, the boys are not
rewarded for this behavior, i.e. "big boys don't cry" and the girls are
still rewarded for crying. Men are taught to withhold their emotions (for
the most part) by our society, if not by parents, than by TV and other such
mediums. Although, the advertising companies have banked in on the fact
that women like sensitive men. See the advertisement for _Cry Baby_ with
Johnny Dep shedding a (obvious airbrushed) tear?
I also learned not to cry and to withhold my anger from my step-mother. It
is acceptable for me to cry as in no one would really think I was a whimp or
whatever but I still would never do so in public. People are emotional.
They may or may not learn to control it.
Some women play off of the fact that it's "ok" to cry and are very
manipulative. But some men do the same thing; they just whine all the time.
I don't think you can paint all women (or men for that matter) with the same
brush.
(Gee, where have I heard this before?)
Message: 65409
Author: Hans Glans
Category: War!
Subject: Bodybuilding prejudi
Date: 05/07/90 Time: 23:43:47
I see that some people here seem to be prejudiced against those whose goal
is to build a better body. Quite narrow-minded. Why does accepting people
the way they are often include condemning those who try to change what they
are?
I saw a comment about female bodybuilders.
I also saw posts about accepting overweight women.
I don't mean to blast the obese, but I would much rather be with one of the
two female bodybuilders that I know personally, than some overweight woman
that doesn't care about how she looks. The difference, is, it is easy for
one to be out of shape, it takes NO effort. Being a competition bodybuilder
takes a lot of effort. I like the middle of the spectrum best, someone that
takes care of themselves, shapes up, but not to the obsessive side.
And to the person that said that most beautiful women are not nice people:
I have found that many unattractive women harbor resentment that makes them
unattractive of personality, also.
Message: 65410
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: In search of
Subject: lost tapes
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 00:52:17
Does anyone have 'lost tapes' of Apollo GTs. If so, please contact either
Dean Hathaway or I.
The next time Zak or Peter want to bring a camera, I won't object. Mr
Hathaway has shown me what he can do with such film... I AM IMPRESSED!
Where is Zak anyway, I was dissapointed he could not make the GT.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65411
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C./justice
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 05:33:53
You said it far better than anyone John.
It is my opinion that a criminal accused of a capital crime must be given a
fair trial. If that trial results in a conviction, then there should be ONE
appeal, just to make sure that nothing was missed or overlooked the first
time. If that appeal results in conviction, then execution of the death
penalty must be carried out swiftly and surely.
There is absolutely no reason for society to bear the burden of feeding,
clothing, housing and legal expenses for years of dragging a loser through a
court system that has evolved into nothing more than a money maker for the
greedy legal profession.
Message: 65413
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hans/Monks/Bible
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 08:32:29
The Monks feared God. With such a fear and reverence for Him, what makes you
think that they would change His words just to suit their own selfishness?
And what about the OLDER texts?
Message: 65414
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hans/My Last/Reply?
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 08:33:17
(tsi)
Message: 65415
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hans
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 08:57:04
Very well put!
Message: 65416
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bobby/why?
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 09:09:59
Re: Why wouldn't just the lethal injection be enough?"
If he was lethal injected first, then beheaded, then there would be no
chance of him escaping and killing people again! See Cliff's post! Ha ha.
Actually, I wasn't talking about doing both - think the injection is best,
with beheadment second best. I think throwing the murderer to the Crocodiles
is better than the electric chair! That way, the state doesn't have to pay
for Crocodile feed at the tax payers expense! *Heh
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65417
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bobby on emotions
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 09:19:55
Re: woman are not more emotional than men .......
You say they are, but lets look at that closer ... little boys start off
crying when they get mad just like girls do - but what is the classic thing
parents say to their little boys? "Stop that crying! Boys don't cry!" "Be a
man!" etc. etc. They DON'T say this to their little girls do they?
I say most of the differences are environmental! Look to the animals for
example - the male is usually the stud only - yes he fights for what's his
and the female sits back and lets him. But on the whole, it is the female of
the species that's the strongest in over all. Take the lioness for an
example. She is really the King of Beasts, not the male. Most females feed
and care for the young without the father's help - fighting off preditors
etc. Nothing is more formidable than a tigress, lioness, that have young to
protect. She doesn't cry, be emotional or have 'that time of the month'
problems. Because no one has told her how to act - she is just nature's way.
That is my point. -=*) ANN (*=-
Tell me where men and woman are so differently emotionally - not programmed,
really different and why. Tell me where the envirionment doesn't play a
role.
Message: 65418
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on emotions
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 09:22:48
You can say my response is more emotional than logical if you wish. I find
that a typical male response myself.
You say I'm the only female that you know of that doesn't acknowledge the
difference - well then, tell me the difference. And I'm NOT talking sexual
organs either. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65419
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa on emotions
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 09:28:51
You've did it again - said it better than I have.
Do you now see what I mean about starting a conversation with the men on
this board on this subject? Most don't respond but the rest have typical
male brain washed answers that they will hang on to regardless what women
tell them! You would think they'd jump at the chance to learn more about
women wouldn't you? I certainly would like to come to a better understanding
of men - but when hit with things such as "That's just the way men are" -
"women are more emotional" etc. etc. I learn nothing. Sad.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65420
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hans on building
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 09:30:36
I like both male and female body builders and admire them for what they
accomplish. Have you see the movie 'Pumping Iron'! I really enjoyed that. I
also watch the contest on TV every chance I get. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65421
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: bible writers
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 11:05:17
I am reading a fascinating book called _Who Wrote The Bible_ by Friedman.
Friedman "proves" that the first four books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus,
Leviticus, and Numbers were written by at least two different groups, and
perhaps as many as four and that the texts of the original documents were
interlaced into one document. The two groups are known as "J" and "E" for
their use of the God-name "Yahweh" and "Elohim". (Actually the "J" stands
for the Judah group and the E group is shown to be the priestly group based
in Shiloh in the northern kingdom. The evidence is pretty compelling, as
many of the common stories are told twice, e.g., the creation story of the
God El in Genesis 1 and the creation story of the God YHWH in Genesis 2-3.
Even more fascinating is the interlacing of the two texts in the story of
Noah which leads to some interesting and amusing conflicts. The two stories
can be separated by putting the parts that name God El (or Elohim) in one
version, and the God YHWH in another. If read separately they form a
complete story. I am now half-way through the book and am reading about
how these scholars determined that the prophet Jeremiah wrote and edited the
history of the Jews from Deuteronomy to the King Josiah. I will enter some
more information as I read it , as I am sure you will find it edifying.
Message: 65422
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 12:57:43
Nice to see a good attitude about it. Too many people are just stupid about
it. A comment I have often heard is, "Why would you want to do THAT", or,
about female bodybuilders, "Who would want to go to bed with that(actually,
a different word was used for go to bed)".
A funny story is about Andy Rooney. I didn't hear the show, but from second
hand, it seems he had footage of Pumping Iron II. When they were showing
Rachel McLish. He said, "Who would want to date THAT?". I would say that a
rather large portion of single men, as she is quite baeutiful, her muscles
are shapely and strong, but not overlarge. And she's a smart lady, too.
Perfect package! Now, Mr. Rooney on the other hand....
Message: 65423
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Religion
Subject: Wristfall
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 12:58:55
Ok, the monks could have been deluded into thinking they had devine guidance
in their changes. God has inspired your life, hasn't he?
Message: 65424
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike C
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 13:53:19
I can lend you the tape, or you can come and see it at my place if you
like.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65425
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Answer!
Subject: Beau/Modem
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 13:55:39
That's good, because it turned out that I didn't really have the 300 baud
modem after all. I called Zak and he wanted to borrow it, but when I tried
to find it I couldn't. I think I gave it to the guy who bought my old Epson
printer because he had a 64. By the way, Zak can only use a modem that is
made for a Commodore 64, since they don't have any rs232 interface on them.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65426
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C.
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 14:01:13
Is it a logical decision to worship the God/crystals, or is it something
you feel compelled to do regardless of whether there is reasonable evidence
of their existance or true nature?
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65427
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Question?
Subject: Dog
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 16:02:35
Re: ""cruel or unusual punishment" (or is that AND?)""
OK, I confess. Popping someone's head off because the drop was too long is
not cool. We just have to make sure the drop is a little shorter.
Message: 65428
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hands Glands
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 16:07:48
Re: "some overweight woman
that doesn't care about how she looks"
I don't think overweight women are overweight because they don't care how
they look. I think even the biggest care how they look. Could it be that
you are prejudiced against overweight women?
Message: 65429
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 16:11:18
Re: "That way, the state doesn't have to pay
for Crocodile feed at the tax payers expense!"
I know! We could feed them to the lions at the zoo. That could kill about
3 or 4 birds with one stone. (Am I mixing metaphors or what?)
Message: 65430
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 16:20:21
Re: "Look to the animals for example"
Hey right! I used to raise chickens when I was a kid. The rooster (that's
the male) is king of the chicken yard. The hen (that's the female)
literally lays down and lets the rooster rule. Good suggestion.
Re: "Tell me where the envirionment doesn't play a role."
That's hard to tell since no one is brought up in a non-envionment
situation. You ladies are just jealous because men are superior! Ha!
Message: 65431
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: hands on glands
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 19:29:08
Shapely women are indeed nice to look at. I must beg to differ however,
that women with "muscles" are not "shapely" in my definition. They're
masculine. And Masculinity in strict definition is something I don't
look for in a woman.
Some folks have their own tastes. I admire the devotion to body building,
but that's where it stops. Women with muscular physique remind me of
men with female physique..
Blech!
Message: 65432
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 19:50:00
Your question, or rather statement;
"Tell me where the environment doesn't play a role." is like saying;
Prove it, but leave Earth out of it.
Like Bob pointed out, with few exceptions, nature parallels the instincts
shown between the opposite sexes. Natural behaviour, escpecially if you're
a strong advocate of the psuedo-science of evolution, dictates that
behaviour of any kind be derived from adapting and conforming to the
environment. I.E. You sleep at night etc.
If the environment changed, so would behaviour.
This male-female interaction and pattern has been going on since we
started to record history...so stop belching this conspiracy theory already.
I have read a few psycology books dealing with the human behavioural
patterns. WHat is interesting is when each book, authored separately,
touches upon that unique topic of male - female relationships. What has
been substantiated is that, taking a purist form, a TOTAL female is all
emotional, sickly dainty, absolutely beautiful and speaks in high
tenor. The TOTAL male, a muscle bound cross between neanderthal and rocket
scientist is logicaly driven, (sometimes URGE driven) ;-) and
incapable of fully understanding the dainty, emotional female.
Speaks in a gutteral grunting language and farts obsessively.
Two complete (almost) opposites...and we should all know how strong the
atraction is between complete opposites.
I suppose that's why Atheists and Theists get along so well.
Message: 65433
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Mike
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 20:02:12
No. Nevermind.
Message: 65434
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak/modem
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 20:07:57
It turns out that Zak has a perfectly good 300/1200bps modem. What he
lacks is the RS232 interface in his C-64 (it is being loaned out for two
months). Since I have a perfectly good 300/1200bps modem as well (that is,
not a brain-dead C64-only modem), I can't help him.
Message: 65435
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/God
Date: 05/08/90 Time: 20:32:48
No, the logic just went to prove the existence of God/crystals--once
that concxlusion is arrived at, logically, then comes the response to
worship or not worship. The logical argument just went to the existence of
the creator. Whether to worship Him or not, is, I think, not a logical
decision, but rather simply a response to the Godhood/Crystalhood.
Message: 65437
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: CHIT CHAT
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 00:44:02
TO SYSOP
FROM JEFF LOCHANSKY
I FOUND OUT COCO
NET,COCO JET NO
LONGER IN OPERATION
SOMETHING ELSE:
I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE
A VIRUS OR SIMULAR
DEVICE IN YOUR BBS
IF I TRY TO SAVE DOWNLOA
DED INFO IT CRASHES
MY COMPUTER TOTALLY
IF SAVING DOWNLOAD
IS NOT POSSIBLE PLEASE
LEAVE ME A MESSAGE UND
CHIT CHAT
THANK YOU SO MUCH
Message: 65438
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 05:42:16
"The state doesn't have to pay for crocodile feed at taxpayers' expense."
I wasn't aware that we were feeding crocodiles too! I thought that the
politicians, sports entepreneurs and homeless were enough!
Message: 65439
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger/writers
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 05:49:36
God, theologians, archeologists and historians down through the ages are
pretty well agreed that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, as he
was inspired by God to do so.
But of course, I suppose Friedman, with all his wordiness, has convinced
you that the rest of them are all wrong.
What we seem to have here is just one more flawed personal opinion to throw
into the melting pot. Another voice attempting to discredit the divinely
inspired Word of God.
I'll stick with the guy that brung me. I'll take God over Friedman.
Message: 65440
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/"Who Wrote"
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:00:06
I've read the book also. Interesting theory, but I don't feel the evidence
is conclusive. Archaeological and literary research has tended
to undercut the challenges to Mosaic authorship.
Interesting reading, but take it with a grain of salt.
Message: 65441
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hans/Rooney
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:01:10
Maybe, just to bury the hatchet, he might venture dating a black homosexual
bodybuilder.
Message: 65442
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hans/65423
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:04:34
Ok, then how do you explain, as noted earlier, the fact that all discovered
copies of the OT and NT are virtually identical? Wait...wait! Let me guess,
they altered Scripture to suit their tastes, burned all evidence to the
contrary, and perpetrated their falsities to this day. Sorry, the Jehovah's
Witnesses have been trying that line to support their introduction of the
name Jehovah into the NT for years. Biblical scholars aren't having any.
Message: 65443
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Lochansky
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:07:51
HE LOOKS AS
IF HE IS IN
DIRE NEED
ANYONE WHO
CAN HELP
HIM MIGHT
WISH TO
DO SO
QUICKLY!
I might know someone who might have a term program fitting your needs. I'll
see if I can get in touch with him today.
Message: 65444
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff L./Virus
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:09:28
It sounds like the problem might be in your terminal program, as no one else
here seems to be having trouble downloading. What protocols does your
program support? Are you using a standard ASCII protocol? If so, then there
should be no problem. If XMODEM, then perhaps there is a bug in the download
section of your terminal program.
Message: 65445
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: daryl/who wrote
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 08:20:34
I think that it is pretty well established that the J, P, D, and E writers
did exist and that it primarily tradition that says the Moses wrote the
Pentateuch. Modern linguistic analysis also helps determine authorship. For
example, Friedman points out in the book that just one measure isn't enough
to fix authorship, but that three or four measures combining make a pretty
convincing case. I think knowing the author and the times in which the text
is written helps to understand the context of the writing, so that
mis-interpretations are less likely.
Message: 65446
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bobby
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 10:19:52
Yeah - we could throw them to the lions! It's been done before.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65447
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bobbly on the sexes
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 10:22:55
Have you ever tangled with hen sitting on a nest or with new chicks? Makes
the rooster look tame in comparison.
Men superior? How? Where? I have came to believe that woman are if there is
to be a superior sex. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65448
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on the sexes
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 10:31:00
"Sickly? Dainty? Muscle bound? Neanderthal? What phychology books are you
reading anyway? Muscle bound? Very few men are that I can see. Women sickly?
They out live men don't they? Neanderthal? I only see those types of men in
the movies.
As regard to the farting ..... that's a matter of expression and who want's
to express themselves. Gender does not matter. However, I have never heard
of a girl/women sitting around with a bunch of other girls, lighting them as
I've heard of men doing. I guess that would be neanderthalish alright! I
forgot about that. Hope I'm not thrown into the Zone for this message.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65449
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on belching
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 10:58:41
Re: "so stop belching this conspiracy theory" ''''
What conspiracy theory? I wasn't aware of one. Typical male response!
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65450
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last!
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 11:14:12
Ahahhhahahaaaaa!
Actually, the very first time I saw someone "light-up" their gasseous
expulsions was on a school bus in Australia...done by a teenage girl...
TRUE!
If you read my message concerning the psycho books, you would have read
something like; the **TOTAL** MALE and FEMALE. These were extreemes
presented by the authors to use as a yardstick. Unfortunately,
your typical female brain is incapable of descerning this and as
usual, off into a tizzy of emotional half-splattered sentences and fits
and convulsions over the presented extreemes you went.
You completely missed the point.
You have just proven my pointr entirely!
Message: 65451
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Question?
Subject: Last
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 12:59:54
Proven your pointr? What will your wife have to say about that...
Message: 65452
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ann/superior
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 13:13:05
No doubt. Although my father-in-law has lived to the ripe old age of 86 and
is "living" in a nursing home. The men are out-numbered by the women 10-1.
Women live longer. So, at least from one criterion, age, women are superior
to men. In fact, we men are so busy being macho and not crying and having
hypertension and drinking with the boys and eat REAL food, good red meat,
that we die 10 years sooner than women. We are also inferior from the
standpoint of stupid. We are stupid. We work our tails off for until we
retire, and then we die. The retirement pay WE earned is then "enjoyed" by
our surviving spouses. Dumb. We are dumb.
Message: 65453
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 15:05:43
Re: "Interesting theory, but I don't feel the evidence
is conclusive."
Gee, I thought that Roger said the author *proved* it?
Message: 65454
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 15:07:50
Re: "Yeah - we could throw them to the lions!"
Wait just a minute here. Wasn't it the Christians that were thrown to the
lions? Maybe that's not such a good idea! :-)
Message: 65455
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 15:10:35
Re: "Men superior? How? Where?"
Were are in charge aren't we? Men always dominate the top positions.
Maybe I should rephrase that. The English finally put a woman in charge and
look where they're at.
Message: 65456
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 15:13:40
Re: "What will your wife have to say about that..."
If you don't think I'm in charge, just ask my wife.
(My wife made me say that.)
Message: 65457
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: bob/proof
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 16:04:18
I may have said the evidence was compelling, but I am not sure I said
"proof". Nevertheless I would be interested in substantive criticism, and
not the I-know-it-all-so-I'm-going-to-ignore-it responses I usually get from
you and others. Daryl, at least, provides a response --- shows he thinks.
What do YOU think about the J,E,D,P writing theory for the OT. And why ?
What are the implications for fundamentalism ? Does it hurt the
fundamentalist position ? Strengthen it ? Have no effect ? And why ? I would
think that fundamentalists would be extremely interested in getting more
information about the context of the OT, in order that the words can be
interpreted even more accurately. So that sentences that don't make "sense"
start to make sense, when understood in their historical context. These are
all positive types of comments I would welcome from the conservative wing.
But so far, all I have received (except from Daryl) are messages like yours.
Message: 65458
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 16:18:49
I would like to take the time out and read through the text which
supports this theory..and be able to make my own mind up about what
I have read in it...however, I cannot spend the time at this point
and am unable to realy spend as much time developing replies to other
topics here on Apollo.
The topics and messages I do reply to are off the cuff, written as I go
and done in less than 3 minutes.
Sorry if you feel left out, but just because some{of us have busier
schedules doesn't mean we don't think, aren't capable of it
and care as much.
Message: 65459
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Melissa
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 16:25:47
Actually, she's chicken of open discussions, can't spell worth a damn
and has no idea of what I write on here...so it just goes to say
that whatever she thinks is moot.
I have many things I like to do, one of which is to log into here and other
boards and get into debates, arguments, all out brawls and open topics...
she, being female, timid and quite conservative about being in public
in any form has little to say normaly, keeps pretty much to herself and if
and when she does have something to say usually only lets it out after
two hours of intensive gentle coaxing. The only time she would worry
about where my "pointr" is, is when my stack and registers have
jumped to an address where I/O is immenent.
Besides, being the spiritual and physical leader of the household,
I'd say her being female and all that any response would be
70% emotional, 20% off topic and 10% logic directed at something else.
Pfffft!
Message: 65460
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: News Today
Subject: J.T. Lives
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 18:11:48
Mr. James Taranto is live and well and managing editor of 'Street
News', a Bi-Weekly paper in the BIG APPLE, New York City!
He is doing better then his old job at the Heritage Foundation in
D.C., and he now has his own office with WALLs, and get this, it even has a
closable 'DOOR'....
Good going James
Message: 65461
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Old age...Ann?
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 18:24:31
Women outlive men.... Well, that is true. However.... Since more
men are giving up smoking and more women are taking us smoking and drinking,
the gap is closing fast. Just keep puffing Ann, and refute all FACTS that
are presented you as 'rubbish' and you won't have to worry about a man
shortage.
In todays news, they said there is more proof that people who smoke
are KILLING about 3000 non smokers per year in this country. Lung disease
is a slow death... (worse then 3 jolts of electricity...Ann, who is so
concerned, UNLESS, her own pleasure is at stake!)
(Ann, don't you just hate it when smoking and drinking come up?)
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65462
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C.
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 20:02:24
Yes, logic shows us that there are questions we can't answer yet. Beyond
that we either don't go for now, or we leave logic behind. It's been nice
discussing this with you. My position hasn't really changed, but I see the
questions a little clearer after trying to think up my own explanations for
them as I did for an earlier message.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65464
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 65453/Bob/Roger
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 21:27:53
(GRIN!)
As I've said, I've read the book, and I'm not having any.
Message: 65465
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike/The Book
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 21:32:17
The book is available within the Phoenix Public Library system. I'm not sure
if Glendale has it, though. Their selection of Bible-related material
(Glendale) is quite limited. I'm all too tempted to go out and BUY books and
DONATE them to Glendale. Only problem is, can't afford it.
Message: 65466
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT Lives!
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 21:33:55
He hasn't had a craving for DOMINO'S PIZZA, has he?
I'll bet he still has the little cap hanging somewhere. Ah, memories.
Message: 65467
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger/Who Wrote
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 21:36:06
Everyone is trying to dissect and analyze the Bible. Whatever happened to
reading it and believing it? (GRIN - This is a RHETORICAL question, ROD, and
does not require an answer.)
Message: 65468
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: Daryl/belief
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 21:53:43
I should have realized we cannot talk to each other, because you are
asleep and I am awake.
Message: 65469
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: me
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 22:14:58
Hello.
No, in case there is any confusion, I have not been absent due to anything
related to Apollo. That Friday, my cousin arrived, and I was busy
entertaining her until she left the following Thursday. After that, I got a
new job and moved.
Did I mention that I hate the smell of cat piss?
Message: 65470
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Black homo bodybuild
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 22:28:18
There is one, believe it or not. I mean, everyone gets accused, but he was
open about it. Pretty good bodybuilder, but some people concentrate on
things like that.
Message: 65471
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak/bodybuild/fat
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 22:42:25
On Zak, I have several 300 baud commie modems...Tell him to leave me his
number.
On masculine women: Look at Rachel Mclish. You probably don't even know what
I am talking about. She is shapely, but not masculine...the difference is
that her shape is firm. And that she can bench press more than many men.
On me being against fat women(I try not to be against them, yuk yuk):
No, I am not, I am against ones with a bad attitude. "I'm fat and you have
to accept me!" No, I don't. Personality is part of determining who is your
friend, and attitudes like that don't win me.
If they don't care, fine, but they don't have the right to tell me I have to
accept them on the basis of a decision they make.
Most people will do anything to lose weight(fat), except exercising, which
is what works.
Message: 65472
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger on Daryl
Date: 05/09/90 Time: 23:47:22
Let me get this strait.....
Because Daryl does not buy the garbage that Roger thinks is
undisputable, Roger thinks it is Daryl that is asleep and only he is wide
awake. Typical atheist tactic at belittlement.
I'm afraid the Bible will be around long after that book Roger is
reading has rotted and been forgotten.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65473
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Executions
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 00:56:38
In response to Mike's comment, I don't see where my personal opinion didn't
come through. I think our notion of how to put criminals out of the way has
a lot more to do with satisfying feelings of anger after the event than with
solving the problem or preventing it in the first place. I think we're
kidding ourselves if we think a more brutal death for a criminal is somehow
a better solution to the problem of crime. Death is death.
At the same time, I can't possibly argue against killing criminals if it
would save lives. If Bundy's trial in Colorado could have been accomplished
in a few weeks and ended in a quick death sentence, that would have been far
better than having him crawl out the ceiling and hoof it down to Florida to
kill a couple more young women and maim others. I'd cheerfully pull a
switch or whatever on him myself if I knew that in the balance I was not
taking a life, but saving lives. Some things have a price.
We must also consider what to do with violent criminals as a whole. We
think some killers "deserve" to die because they are "evil", but if a killer
is genuinely, clinically insane then we keep him alive because he is "sick"
and presumably "can't help it". In reality some of the thinking behind this
may be that we know an insane person is probably in terrible mental pain
from his sickness and therefore is being punished already, so we feel sorry
for him. The criminal we class as "just evil", on the other hand, isn't
being punished in the same way, so we do it for him. But it doesn't make
any difference to the innocent victim whether he is killed by an insane
person or an "evil" person. From the point of view of the rest of us they
are both just "disordered people". It might actually make more sense to
kill an incurably insane person rather than have him linger on for forty or
fifty years of misery at everyone's expense, and to keep a more "sane"
criminal alive if we knew there was a reasonable chance of reforming him.
Most of our thinking unfortunately is oriented around punishment rather than
prevention, or minimizing the total amount of human suffering -- whether to
the offender or to all the rest of us.
We should not consider the problem of killers separately from that of other
criminals. We say "if you execute a killer then he can't kill again".
Fine. But some time last year, a guy was let out on parole in California.
Nothing unusual about that, except that he was having great difficulty
finding a place to live and work under supervision in accordance with the
conditions of his parole. Why? Very simple. His crime was that he had
kidnapped a fifteen-year-old girl, raped her, and then cut off both her
arms. He couldn't find a place to stay because no community wanted him
there. I don't blame them. Yet we don't execute such a person because he
isn't a killer. What do we do? Lock him up at enormous expense? If we do
our best to "punish" him -- let's say he got two dozen lashes every day for
ten years with a cat-o'-nine-tails -- then there comes a time when his
sentence is over and he is let out because he has "paid his debt to society"
according to law. Is he reformed? Is he hell! The first thing he's going
to do is find a victim to work off all that anger for being punished. My
daughter, or yours (if you have one)?
This man was an extreme example, but there are plenty more like him, and
literally millions of muggers and other people who should never be out on
the streets. What do we do with them?
In response to John Cummings: yes, I too have a very large problem with
fourteen years of delaying tactics. A man must have a fair trial that
brings out all the facts, allows him to present his full defense, and makes
room for reasonable doubt. And allows careful review upon appeal. But once
it's obvious beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty, it's totally
irrelevant to invoke rules saying that such-and-such a piece of evidence
should have been excluded. We all know he's guilty. We don't separate out
issues as we should. There is a strong argument for limiting the powers of
police so that we don't develop a police state where we're being snooped on
and intruded on all the time. So how do we counter that? We develop a
legal system that provides negative reinforcement for police who overstep
the bounds by saying "if you obtain evidence illegally, we won't give you a
conviction". So the killer walks jauntily out the door and maybe kills
again. We tie two things together that should never be tied together. If a
policeman obtained evidence illegally, *and* someone was proven guilty of a
crime as a result, those are two separate issues. We know that the
defendant is guilty, and that the policeman is also guilty. Two separate
facts. We should deal with the criminal as a criminal, and also,
separately, discipline or fire the policeman for violating our sacred
freedoms.
And half these delaying tactics have nothing whatever to do with whether the
defendant was guilty, but whether his execution would prejudice someone
else's chances of survival or offend someone else's sensibilities. Several
of these death row guys were just anxious to get it all over, starting with
Gary Gilmore. Prolonging the agony is totally absurd.
Who is responsible for all this mess? You can blame the lawyers, and indeed
lawyers are largely responsible and have a strong vested interest in keeping
the system at status quo. But I think that's an oversimplification.
Rather, I would blame the "lawyer philosophy" that exists among the people
at large. What I mean by that is that everything in life is treated as a
competition; you either win or lose. You win by hitting someone else harder
than you get hit yourself. If you lose one round, you go out and hit
somobody else weaker than yourself. Then he hits someone else back. It's
all a stupid game based on contention. Lawyers make their living out of
contention, but they are just the epitome of a certain spirit in society.
Notice how many divorce lawyers there are, and how few of them are into
divorce *mediation*? Does anybody even know what that is? How much human
energy is wasted on fighting other people? Nobody will get together and
find a cooperative solution. Lawyers play a game called "let's you and him
fight", and the rest of us fall for it. Lawyers are largely into power.
And what's the most popular professional background for being a legislator?
No wonder human society is so fucked up.
Message: 65478
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Men and Women
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 01:04:13
I wouldn't buy the idea that there is NO innate difference between males and
females; only that the difference is less than one might think.
For most of recorded history it was believed that people are the way they
are because they were born that way. Then in the twentieth century came the
realization that people are profoundly affected by the environment in which
they are raised. That realization is a true one, but the trouble was that
in the sixties lots of idealists jumped onto this bandwagon and said
"perhaps ALL the differences between people are environmentally induced."
People love an easy solution. Besides, that idea attracted all the social
engineers who said to themselves "if we just change the environment around a
bit, we can change the whole world. Hooray!"
I think it's true that if the whole human environment and the ways many kids
are raised *could* be changed, we really could change the whole world. But
that's a whole lot easier said than done -- which was the main problem in
the first place; so I won't get into that here. What I would emphasize,
though, is that "males" and "females" are the product both of their
environment and of real innate differences.
I can't deny that boys and girls get socialized differently. One vivid
memory that sticks out in my mind is of a company picnic where somebody
brought along their son, aged around five. A guy came up to him in a
friendly way and said "Hi Fred (or Dave, or Jason, or whatever his name
was), are ya TOUGH?" Perfect example of how boys (or girls) are shown what
is expected of them and what they are supposed to live up to. Of course if
the baby wears blue, we give him a truck to play with; and if the baby wears
pink, we give her a doll.
I always get a chuckle out of this, because you can get a girl very
interested in a hard science -- chemistry -- if you call it "cooking" and
disguise it as a "homemaking skill". It's no less a science. And you can
get a boy very interested in dolls if you give the doll a good solid
masculine name like "My Buddy", or -- more traditionally -- "G.I.Joe". It
isn't culturally biased either. In England you buy a little fellow called
"Action Man". Instead of brushing his hair and dressing him in a "beach"
outfit or a "disco" outfit like Barbie, you dress him in jungle camouflage
or Arctic combat gear. It's the same caring and grooming procedures. Only
Barbie has an "intimate" relationship -- with Ken. Action Man relates only
to his buddies. But if a relationship among men who fight together and
trust one another for life support isn't close, I don't know what is. It
just isn't sexual.
But studies clearly show that boys tend to be more aggressive in play from a
very young age, and girls tend to be more coooperative. Fact is, males are
more competitive and motivated toward domination of the physical world;
females are more cooperative and motivated toward the development of
supportive relationships. Only (a) nobody can get by with just one
motivation or the other; sometimes you have to compete, sometimes you have
to cooperate; (b) nobody is exclusively one way or the other; and (c) people
of either sex are different in the amount of these motivations they have.
Also, men and women tend to have a lot of the same underlying skills; they
just differ in their motivations to use and develop them. I remember a
girlfriend of mine who had trouble figuring out how to make her sewing
machine work. I gave her some help with it, and she said "I didn't think
men were interested in sewing machines". To her, it was something for
making dresses with. To me, it was a problem in engineering. I didn't see
any reason why we shouldn't put those two motivations together to achieve
something. Especially when she looked nice in that dress.
Modern research strongly suggests that differences between "masculine" and
"feminine" motivations is the result of different brain center development
stimulated by hormonal effects in utero. When this process goes wrong, it
may result in different sexual preference or in a different set of
motivations that are translated as a "gender identity" at odds with the
physical body. From a personal point of view, if I had slowly developed an
interest in the opposite sex that matured throughout childhood, I might have
bought the notion that I was "raised" to be heterosexual. When a sudden
intense interest in girls developed around the age of twelve, I have to say
that it was chemically stimulated. It has to be "hardware", or at the very
least, "firmware". (And before you come up with any funny remarks...)
One guy was a victim of the feminist thinking of the 60s and 70s that said
being male or female was just a matter of how you were raised. He was born
an identical twin around 1963, and lost his penis to a bungled circumcision.
Dr. John Money, a well-known researcher in the gender field, was then under
the sway of the idea that gender was solely a result of how a child was
raised. Because it was difficult to reconstruct a penis, he recommended
that the boy undergo a sex change operation and be raised as a girl, which
was duly done. This poor kid was the darling of the feminist movement all
through the 70s. They couldn't resist referring to his case in any book
that "proved" there was no innate difference between males and females. But
when puberty hit him, it was obvious that he wasn't going to make it as a
female. He was the world's first artificially created transsexual.
It is often said that "men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get
love". I think this is more or less bullcrap. I think men pay more
attention to their more prominent motivation, which is sexual conquest, and
women pay more attention to their more prominent motivation, which is the
maintenance of a relationship, but both of them are in some sense hiding
that secondary and complementary need that they have. Men hide their needs
for relationships because dependencies aren't considered masculine, and also
they hide their emotions partly because they are taught to but also because
they can function without them more readily than women can. That men need
relationships is obvious from the surveys showing that married men with
families are happier than those without. Women often hide their needs for
sex because many men don't seem to approve, and approval is necessary to
maintain a relationship. It's a question of which comes first.
The main point in my mind is that men and women have differences, but
society wants to focus those differences so that men are all one way and
women all the other way. This was OK in a primitive hunter-gatherer society
where clear-cut roles were appropriate, but in today's complex technological
world a mix of "masculine" and "feminine" skills fits in better; and in fact
"feminine" skills, which are stronger on the communications side, have
become more valuable. Time to reevaluate and stop pushing people into rigid
categories.
Message: 65483
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Absence
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 01:11:20
I probably won't be on this system for the better part of a month, so I'm
sorry if I can't reply to any posts. I'll be in places where a call to
Apollo is L-O-O-O-N-G distance, besides not having a modem with me. Just
thought I'd better mention this to forestall all the usual claims that
"someone on the board p!$$ed him off, and he went away in a huff."
Please arrange to get in touch with me URGENTLY if anyone succeeds in
proving logically and irrefutably, to the satisfaction of all on board, that
there IS a God, or alternatively that there definitely isn't. If either of
those events happens, I might need to revise my life plan in a hurry,
- Gordon
Message: 65484
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob T.
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 05:49:51
I think that Roger has reached the point in his life where he will believe
anything and anybody, as long as they refute what God hath said.
How sad. Other than that, he's really a pretty nice guy too.
Message: 65485
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/65467
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 05:55:03
AMEN!!!
Message: 65486
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger/65468
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 07:16:39
Gee, po' po' me. I'm just a po' igno'int li'l Crishchun. Ain't no hep fo'
me. I dunt b'leeve whut you b'leeve so I is jus' a dum bunny.
I guess this means that I have more free time to use constructively.
Message: 65487
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on women
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 08:03:19
Your typical male ego is showing. My point entirely! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65488
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger #65452
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 08:19:48
How refreshing you are - a man, yet you are not playing some role to prove
it. I say your more of a man! Your kind of thinking is what women want in
their husbands, live-ins, etc. etc. It's rare, but you prove it is at least
there.
I've often wondered why men will dedicate themselves to their job/career and
not really enjoy the fruits! They seem to use it for an excuse to let the
wife raise the kids, whether she works or not, to spend long hours away from
their homes they worked so hard for and to not have time to live while
alive! When retirement come, they have been so wrapped up in their work,
they just keel over and die soon afterwards. I read not too long ago that
even if both the men and women work in a family, the woman does nmost of the
raising and housework! Men simple refuse to help all that much, so the
woman's career never gets off the ground really because she can't dedicate
herself like her husband can. How nice it would be if both of them partook
of equal responsibilities on the home front and took their career's less
seriously as only a means of making a living, not a life style. I never
understood why people had children and let someone else raise them or bought
a house no one is ever in.
Society is now putting the presures on women to make a career - to think of
themselves first, etc. I wonder how they figure that is going to help?!
Pretty soon, why get married in the first place? It's all very complicated.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65489
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bobby on Christians
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 08:31:35
Sure, it was the Christians thrown to the lions, but remember, the Roman's
thought them criminals of the state, the empire!
Hey, I just might have solved a major problem here - take all murders, put
them in an arena - let the people pay for the tickets to gather revenue for
the state, put a sword in their hands and let them have a go at the lions!
(the lions would out count the criminals 5 to 1) If said criminal came out
alive, he was proven innocent and set free! All of this would be a boom to
this state alone and would ...
1. Ease the tax payers burdens with the money from the tickets and help pay
off the expense of the arena.
2. The sword makers could hire more people, thus the job market would be
healthier.
3. Not to mention all the salaries paid out to the construction workers on
the arena.
4. No costly trials would be held, thus holding up our courts.
5. No lawyer's fees paid by the state.
6. No prison cost - no new prisons - no electric chairs, hanging trees, etc.
7. All our prisons could be made into museums and people could pay to tour
them, thus more money in our gov. coffers.
8. All the lions, tigers, big cats, meat eating animals at the zoos would be
fed the prisoners that lost, thus, less expense.
See? Why not? All kidding aside - I find this less offensive than an
electric chair execution. It is just about a civilized. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65490
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bobby on men
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 08:40:48
Sure, you guys are in charge and look where it's gotten us! Wars and more
wars. Nuclear accidents - crooked politicians - AIDS (oh, that one will
cause controversy!) - high taxes - high insurance rates - oil spills - rain
forrest distruction - war between the states (Civil) - war between countries
- war within families - war between brothers - mass murderers (mostly men) -
rapes - revenge - gangs (mostly men) - spies - incest (mostly men) -
perversion (mostly men) - bank robbers - computer hackers - have I left
anything out? Now I know women have been involved in a lot of this but it is
rare compared to men being involved. Surely you men can see that. Right? Are
you beginning to perhaps see my point? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65491
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 08:46:17
No I don't hate it when smoking and drinking come up. You know my opinion on
them both - it hasn't changed.
What I do dislike, is you evading the subject of the men/woman thing and
bringing in the smoking subject, thus avoiding the issue.
You failed to mention that men and women that smoke and drink equally, the
women are still living longer. I personally don't think these things have as
much to do with long living as does the stress in a person's life. If women
enter in to a career like men do and take it as seriously, then you will see
the gap close and fast. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65492
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: cliff on sleep
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 08:56:37
All right answer me this, O sleeper. Why is it so important to you that
the Bible was not written by several different groups ? After all, the NT
has at least 5 different authors:the four Gospel writers and Paul, and
perhaps Peter. Why is it so disturbing to study the One book you all claim
to admire so much and discover its origins ? Why ?
Message: 65494
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: Daryl
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 09:03:11
If you ever want to discuss things in a rational manner, I suggest you
wake up and look around you. What is it about you "Christians" who revel
in sarcasm ? You refuse to even CONSIDER evidence, so you make fun of it and
ridicule those who are thinkers. Well, Mr. Daryl Smartypants Sleepwalker,
tell me WHY it is so bothersome to you to even CONSIDER that there are
several authors in the OT pentateuch ?
Message: 65495
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: men/women
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 09:05:40
My wife and I both work. We raised two children that way. I hate to do
clothes and washing and ironing, so I don't do that. I did, however, make
meals and wash dishes with the kids when my wife was off working. It was
a good time for me and them. I got to know them pretty well, and we still
have a lot of laughs and fond memories of the stuff we did together.
Message: 65496
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: bible origins
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 09:16:50
OK, the book _Who Wrote the Bible_ summarizes the evolution of the OT Bible
this way:
"J" version of "torah" exists post-Egypt in Judah
"E" version of "torah" exists post-Egypt in Israel
Assyria conquers Israel, and refugees enter Judah with "E" version
"J" and "E" versions merged
"P" version written during reign of Hezekiah
"D1" version written during reign of Josiah
"D2" version written after exile to Babylon in Egypt by Jeremiah
Ezra? combines JE, P, and D1;D1 versions into OT as we know it today using
the "P" version as the structure for the OT after the return of the Hebrews
to Judah from Babylon.
Now, there is a way to disprove this theory.If it can be shown that an OT
version of the first 4 books existed prior to Ezra (post-exilic), then the
theory would be disproved. If, on the on the other hand, the J, E, or JE, P
and D documents could be found as separate documents, that would confirm the
theory.
Message: 65497
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger/post 65492
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 10:09:24
Where, oh where did you get the opinion that it was important to me
that the Bible was not written by several different groups? I thought you
claimed to know my BRAND of Christianity? I happen to be one of them that
accept the Bible was witten by man, but inspired by God. And whenever there
is man involved, there will be some error. Like Kings having parts they did
not like removed from the text. Changes in interpretation, and so on.
But you on the other hand have not shown me any proof of anything,
just someone's theory on how they see the Bible being assembled. This does
not mean I don't want to know the Bibles origin, but I am not going to
change my life style because someone wanted to write and sell a book.
You never did tell me my brand of Christianity, Roger?
clif-
Message: 65498
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 10:36:22
It's because he can't
Message: 65499
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 10:37:28
Typical female..always blaming the male for everything.
You brought up all those points, none of which prove anything,
especially if you consider who "brought them up" in the first place eh?
Mommy!
Message: 65500
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: LAST
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 12:34:19
I side with Gordon Little on this men/women development arguement, but I
would like to mention that all the evils Ann attributes to men can be blamed
on women just as easily. The majority of all that men do wrong could be said
to stem from the treatment they receive from women if you want to get into a
useless and vindictive battle of finger pointing. Why don't men take care of
the kids? They may feel that the children were forced upon them before they
were ready. A woman's desire to have children is something that she often
won't have denied. Why do men start wars and murder each other for no
reason? Maybe its because someone tried to train them to urinate sitting
down, just because it would be nicer for those who have no choice but to do
so. I could go on and on. AIDS may be spread largely because women have
turned a lot of men into homosexuals. I am not claiming any of these things
to be true, and I happen to hold women to be one of the very best reasons
for living, I just wanted to counter Ann's diatribe against men with an
example of the same type.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65501
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: cliff/lifestyle
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 13:25:28
I have not asked you to change your lifestyle. This whole chain is about
the origin of the Bible. Instead I get a lot of flak about lifestyle bible
bashing and so-forth, without any constructive responses. So, I take it that
it doesn't matter to you how the Bible came to be formed, or the interesting
detective work that was done ? If that's the case, then I suspect there will
be a lot of silence on this subject (until I come up with some of the
implications of the JEPD (R) theory.
heh. heh. BTW, your brand of Christianity is only one variant on a whole
spectrum of absolute literalists who believe the world began in 4004 BC
(fairly rare these days, but more common when I was a kid) to evolution gap
theorists who suggest that God filled the gaps between species.
Message: 65502
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: women/homosex
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 13:26:50
What ? How do women turn men into homosexuals ? I've gotta hear this.
Message: 65503
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mikie on bringing ..
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 14:02:01
... up the kids! Ah - lets look at that one. Sure, mom stays home and raises
the kids (they used to anyway) but who is really in charge? Everyone knows
the old saying 'a man is the head of the household' don't they? Most
punishments are doled out by the father - he instructs his wife not to make
a sissy outta his boy - he usually has the purse strings in hand too - he
comes home from work and plops down with beer hin hand in front of the TV
set - maybe he grunts a few grunts during the course of the evening and then
retires - starts up all over the next day. Then comes the week end - he's
still glued to the TV set, only this times it's football, baseball, basket
ball, etc. etc. Now who is the role model for the son? How do you suppose
he'll grow up? He certainly won't grow up to be like mom - she's too busy
serving and cleaning up after Pop. If she's got little girls, she has them
in the kitchen teaching them to cook and sew for their future couch
potatoes. This scenaro might be a tad over done in this day and age, but
I've seen this very same thing in many families.
I don't know of one mother who raised her son to be a war monger - un-neat
- un-clean - an adulterer - a foul mouth individual - a macho dude. Do you?
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65504
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean on women
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 14:08:32
Yes - I could also turn things around and put mucho blame on women too.
Maybe in other posts - but right now we're talking about men.
You think women are turning men into homos? I say, men are turning women to
the viberators!
AIDs is spread because of men only. They started it regardless of what they
call themselves. Anyone that is promiscuious (sp?) runs the risk of
contacting and giving AIDS and other horrors. Women are not excluded either.
But men are at fault for starting it!
All of this could be avoided if the sexes understood each other - at least
begin to. I find that most women want to - try hard to, men do not! It's a
macho thing with them - don't cry - don't let out your emotions because
you'll be less of a man, etc. etc. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65505
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger last
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 14:10:48
I think Dean hinted that women perhaps 'de-ball' men somehow and they turn
to other men because of it! Just my guess - wish he'd elaborate more.
I can sure tell you why women turn to the viberators and other women though.
(and not be a lisbian either) -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65506
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 15:34:51
Re: "Ease the tax payers burdens with the money from the tickets and help
pay off the expense of the arena."
I know your post was tongue in cheek, but sad to say, it makes more sense
than the nonsesnse I hear coming from Washington.
Message: 65507
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 15:36:16
Re: "high taxes - high insurance rates - oil spills - rain
forrest distruction - war between the states"
That's cause you women have corrupted us.
Message: 65508
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Women
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 16:28:30
As I said in the post in question, it was not to be taken seriously, but
as an example of how either sex can be blamed if one wants to claim victim
status for the other. The case for women causing homosexuality among men
would include such things as sissifying (sic?) them as children, taunting
them as adolescents, and intimidating or rejecting them as young adults. The
blame could just as easily be placed on the way the men handle these things
instead, but the arguments are there for someone who wants to use them.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65509
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Question?
Subject: Ann
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 16:30:52
Why do women turn to vibrators and other women? What does your not being a
lisbian have to do with it? Is there something going on in Lisbon that I am
not aware of?
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65510
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pat Robertson
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 16:46:16
I happened to catch some of his show on cable TV last night. He is
convinced that the U.S. is entering a phase where Christians will be treated
exactly as Jews were treated in Nazi Germany. He showed religious protesters
being pulled away from a protest outside an abortion clinic and then ran
photos of Jews hanging from posts. As the 1-800 number flashed on the screen
for you to pledge your donations every few seconds, Pat and his support
staff detailed every atrocity purpetrated on the Jews and predicted that it
would happen to Christians here within a few years if they did not raise
whatever amount of money it was that they had determined would halt the tide
of Christian blood lust amok in the land.
They were particularly incensed that a couple of major newspapers had
carried an article entitled: Evangelical Christians, You Have No Right To
Erase The Line Between Church And State (or something to that effect). Pat
declared that this was absolute proof that Christians would soon be unable
to hold jobs in this country without hiding their faith, and that the whole
gamut of Nazi atrocities was next to implemented by the media elite. That
call to uphold the separation of church and state was likened to the
campaign by the Nazis to cast Jews as subhuman creatures.z{
Pat plays so fast and loose with the facts that it is hard to picture the
people who would fall for this and send money.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65511
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 16:51:35
Re: "I am reading a fascinating book called _Who Wrote The Bible_ by
Friedman. Friedman "proves" that the first four books of the Bible: Genesis,
Exodus,"
Re: "I may have said the evidence was compelling, but I am not sure I said
"proof"."
As usual Roger, you don't know what you say. You did say that Friedman
proves it. And your tactic of denying what you say, put downs, and name
calling is really tacky. You may have a lot of knowledge, but you sure lack
in the wisdom department. When you can reply in a civil manner and drop
your sanctimonious prattle, I may reply to your arguments in the depth you
seem to demand. Until then, StuffIt!
Message: 65512
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger on Bible
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 17:49:56
Of course I would like to know how the Bible came to be formed. I am
reading your posts with interest, but I take what you have to say with a
grain of salt. Just because some writer out to sell books did some
detective work reading other author's books who were out to make a buck,
does not prove a thing. If this writer is out to disprove the Bible, the
only data he is going to use is what goes along with his ideals. I am
afraid the real authors of the Bible are not avialable for verification, so
I have to assume todays writing are theories.
As I understand the Bible, it is God's word.... BUT... Men have
meddled with the Bible for so many centuries, Kings have had parts removed
they did not like, It has been translated down into English from words that
may have not had 100% the same meaning as they did when written. Heck, even
English words mean different things today then even 100 years ago, so, it
*MAY* seem a little confusing.
The bottom line is "I believe the message of the Bible is true, and
is the word of God"... even if you can in some cases get little
contradictions if you work at it.
You want to talk 'THEORY'... I will listen... I am awake however,
so don't try to tell me 'theory' is 'fact' because then you will lose
credibility real fast.
Message: 65513
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: War!
Subject: Ann
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 18:02:02
I don't know one father who raised his son to be a war monger -
un-neat - un-clean - an adulterer - a foul mouth individual - a macho dude,
and I come from a Navy family, so you would think I see a lot of that, but I
never did! I even HATE beer and I am not that fond of football games
either. It's like me saying ALL women watch soaps! A lable that is not
true.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 65514
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 18:29:08
You mean you actually switched the channel on your TV set and watched
that guy rant?
Geez, I'ma Christian and I can't stomach evangelical diatribe on TV
for more than 2 seconds.
I have yet to change the channel and see one evangelist on TV talk
to the people like they were capable individuals with an average IQ.
It always seems like they're trying to out-shout some hidden voice
in the audience and dance around to keep your eyes on him while
you wonder his sanity. Ulch. The 700 club is even worse.
From the pits of TV Evangelist Hell where such creatures like Tammy
Fae and company were spawned. Have you seen the hair-dos some of these
creatures wear? How about them there $900.00 cuff links and that
ego-stuffed shirt from Renee's in Holywood? I saw, witnessed, glared
in disbelief as some Van Gough nightmare in sequins mummified the audience
by one glance of her medusa make-up (dont smile too hard honey, your
face will fall off). The vacuumed beehive-n-starch hair style shook
dazzlingly as they begged to help poor Hodgey in his mudhole in India.
Yep, I have a fairly healthy imagination..it helps me with my cartoons
I draw...but to imagine the complete buffoon who would actually send
money to these geeks is indeed boggling. Then again...its just as
boggling to live in a state where Rose Mofford is Govenor and cops
get away with murder.
Message: 65515
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: bob
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 20:32:49
What's your problem, Bob ? I am only human. I am not divinely inspired
as others may seem to be. It is clear that this line of reasoning
bothers you. Would you like to tell me why, rather than "stuff it?".
Do you feel that the Friedman case, which is compelling, and arguably,
proves the case for the JEDP(R) formation of the bible threatens your
faith ? First, faith in what ? That the bible is a book filled with
absolutely true things because God wrote the book ? Well, you can
still have that faith, because the various authors "J", "E", "P", and
"D" and the redactor (R), could have been inspired by God. So, that doesn't
change. Is it that our understanding of what the Bible is and what it
means and what the times were like when the Bible was written detracts
from its meaning ? If so, then I suggest you throw away all your Bible
commentaries for they attempt to explain and throw light on this wonderful
book. All I have received is hateful contempt from you folks, rather than
thoughtful responses. I feel sorry for you. I hope you can find peace
somewhere, for it is clear that you don't have it from your current
religion.
Message: 65516
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: friedman
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 20:41:08
Let me quote Friedman in his conclusion: "The seeds of that reconciliation
[of the clergy and the bible scholars] were present from the days of the
earliest investigators. Simply put, the question all along was not "Who
inspired the Bible?" or "Who revealed the Bible?" The question was only
which human beings actually composed it. Whether they did so at divine
direction, dictation, or inspiration was always a matter of faith. Joseph
Ben Eliezer Bonfilss, perhaps the first Jewish scholar to sy outright
about{a verse of the Torah, 'Moses did not write this," made this point
six hundred years ago. He said:
...insofar as we are to believe in the received words and in the
words of prophecy, what is it to me if Moses wrote it or if another
prophet wrote it, since the words of all of them are truth and
through prophecy "
Message: 65517
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: peek a boo
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 22:11:55
I'm calling from a friend's computer. I probably won't be able to get
on at my own residence for quite a while. If Hans Glans would like to give
me his phone number, I would be happy to call him and borrow his modem.
On the recent messages: A swirl of emotional B.S. and half-decent
thinking, all jumbled up into hundreds of messages. Ouch. (Oh, and some
full-decent thinking too.)
Thumbs up to Gordon Little, whose messages offer a plateau of quality
in a sea of murky stale waters. Thumbs up also to Dean for not descending
to ad hominem in the religious debate about faith, even though everybody
else was, and giving a nice print-outable analysis of Thomas Acquinas's
argument for the existence of God. Thumbs down to Mike Carter for saying
"typical woman" too many times. I guess I'm all out of thumbs. (I actually
owe an extra one.)
Zak
Message: 65518
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Arizona Now & Then
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 22:23:01
Arizona Now & Then is a local show that runs on cable channel 6 in
Glendale and 32 in Phoenix. It's a talk-show format program, a half hour
long, and is shown on Tuesday nights at 7:00. Ron Bellus, Ev Mecham's
ex-press secretary, hosts.
The show is of a basic variety nature, though it tends to focus on
current affairs in Arizona and Arizona history. Recent shows have covered
the torture of the Indians (by a lady who studies Arizonan Indian history
and paints depictions of some of the things that have happened); Navajo code
talkers (used to fool the Japanese in wartime); the Mormon trails running
through lower Arizona (our guest was an auto mechanics teacher who has
extensively studied the trails and even built a special dune buggy to ride
along the trail in); Rusty McCabe - storyteller, who tells Western-style
folk tales to kids (on this particular program we had a problem with a
little girl who wouldn't stop picking her nose); and, as a final example,
guest Michael El-Legion, a UFO/newage/consipiracy theory fellow was a guest,
who gave arguments for government coverups of UFOs, etc.
Obviously, the show doesn't subscribe to one basic mold, and will cover
any topic as long as it's interesting and (hopefully) enlightening. In the
future we are planning to get the gubernatorial candidates on and ask
questions about where they stand on the issues.
My question is: does anybody out there have any ideas for
guests/shows? I am scouting for possible talent for future shows. If you
know somebody who is involved in something interesting and who is
serious, enthusiastic, and knowledgeable about it, please let me know via
phone or mail.
Possible shows I have considered:
-- a show featuring Sandy in which she presents all her data in support
of her theory of a corrupt, trying-to-subvert-children's-morals educational
system in Arizona. (with no negative bias from me to get in the way)
-- a show featuring Cliff in which he talks about Apollo, the world's
longest running BBS. Or something along the lines of getting BBS people to
come on and relate stories about the BBS, arguments, etc.
-- a show about gun ownership and safety courses in Arizona, the
positions on the laws, etc.
-- a show featuring local jugglers (perhaps even juggling dogs).
-- a show (or shows) in which local skeptics come on and present
evidence debunking local pseudo-science people (such as El-Legion).
-- a show featuring members of the local libertarian party, and their
views on Arizona issues.
...just some ideas. Please let me know what you think.
Thanks
Zak
Message: 65520
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: Stun Guns
Date: 05/10/90 Time: 23:08:04
Earlier this evening there was a discussion on KFYI about stun guns
and their use in this MOBILE bruhuha.
Some folks called up and stated that stun guns leave marks and or
burns. Others stated they don't.
Besides obvious external physical marks that may or may not be left by
a stun gun, the high voltage delivered from these devices is enough
to totally overload your nervous system in the area hit.
I've been indirectly and directly zapped by all kinds of voltages and
varying current deliveries. In my line of work it's expected.
One thing to bear in mind if you are considering trying out getting
stunned with one of these devices is to remember that these are
specially designed. I just hate it when radio anouncers get into
the generalization and figure all stun guns will or will not give certain
effects.
High voltage of any kind is a very dangerous form of power to mess with.
What a bunch of idiots on the radio. It's not always what the current or
voltage will do, it's your REACTION from it. IE, jerking hand away or
any automatic nervous system response to danger such as heat etc.
You can injure or be injured from the result of it. Ask my old instructor,
he's less three teeth from my elbow.
;-)
Message: 65521
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: sysop
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 00:17:05
from jeff lochansky
to sysop
thank you for the information about your BBS,it was appreciated
you are right, i am new to the computer world, and folks like you
make it a lot easier for me to learn. the reason my lines where
so short, is because i was using a program i had written myself
i work with a coco3 so i could view only 32 lines. also my parameters
where not set right, and i had no way to change them. i now have a
version of ultimate(term) and it works like a charm as you can see.
please exuse my typing, like i said i never even owned a typwriter
i hope that i'll get better soon. i hope to also be able to join
your BBS as a member, next payday, i think apollo is just great
you are doing a fine job keep up the great work
thank you again
jeff lochansky
Message: 65522
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: STUN GUNS
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 02:14:54
From my experience, a person is totally immobilized physically when the
juice is on. After effects were small welts where the current entered the
body (even through a shirt). These welts went away after two or three days.
Is the gov't trying to ban stun guns, or what?
Message: 65523
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: Scriptural authority
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 05:55:29
Let me turn Roger's question around, and ask the "two Ms" (Mann &
Middleton) why it is so vitally important to them to attack the authenticity
and inspiration of Scripture in order to prove or disprove anything? This is
the ploy of Secular Humanism, if it feels good, do it, modernistic religious
philosophy,not of believing people seeking truth.
God Himself, who is the embodiment of all truth, inspired every word and
every thought that went into the Bible. THose words were written by holy
men, as they were inspired by the Spirit of God. It has long been accepted
that Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Old Testament, with the rest being
written by those to whom credit has been given, (major & minor prophets,
etc.) THe New Testament was written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and
probably Peter. The book of Acts was written by Luke, and Revelation by the
same John who wrote the Gospel that carries his name.
THis has been the position of Bible scholars for centuries. Why has it all
of a sudden become necessary to challenge this, and in so doing, challenge
and attack the very heart of the Scripture, the divine inspiration of all
that is written? Why this urge to dissect, alphabetize and modernize that
which is eternal (remember, "My Word shall NEVER pass away."?).
If you are uncomfortable with that which God hath said, perhaps it is time
for self examination rather than trying to water down or change God's Word.
Message: 65524
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Question?
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 06:02:35
According to your last statement on the subject, am I to interpret this as
your opinion that women are not un-neat, un-clean, adulterous or
foul-mouthed?
If you really believe that, you haven't met too many women, have you?
Every adulterous male has to have a partner in crime, cleanliness is
certainly not a sexist feature, nor is uncleanliness, and some of the
foulest, most vulgar people I have met, even after serving in the Navy, have
been women.
Methinks you are trying to stretch your points to the breaking point Annie.
Message: 65525
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 08:25:39
There are no points to be made.
This discussion turned from something about what someone said into
its current disguise.
Annie wishes us to beleive that all the evil of the world is
perpetrated by men and that unclenliness is only to be found with
or around men. Before, and on this board, Annie wanted you to beleive
all the evil, vile and wrongdoing in the world is perpetrated by
Christians.
Next week;
All the evil, inclean and vulgar aspects of life will be blamed on
PeeWee Herman fans.
Message: 65526
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bobby
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 08:40:42
Re: "That's cause you women have corrupted us."
Yeah - VIVA LA CORRUPTION! I'm a pro at that. Just ask Dandy SAndy if that
isn't true. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65527
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 08:42:12
Please explain how a mother goes about 'sissifying' a son? Just courious as
to what you mean. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65528
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean on turning
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 08:55:40
Women turn to viberators and other women because of all this
misunderstanding between the sexes. Unfortunately, more and more women are
finding they can live without a man - I.E. they now have good paying
careers, holding their own, etc. Sexual satisfaction can be found else
where. They ask themselves, "why put up with the crap?" What crap? Machoism
for one - cheating for another. Women really do not understand either of
those deep down. Most women look for a life long companion - she usually
gets a man that won't communicate or show emotions or else he feels he's
being un-manly. Yet, a man looks for these qualities in a companion - one
that is considerate, communicative, interesting, interested, etc. etc.
Please believe that I am not putting all men in these catagories. OR women
either.
As far as turning to other women without being a Les. ..... that's an easy
one. She knows another women will understand her. They will also both know
what men are like and usualy both will want no part of them because of
something that's happened - a broken marriage - cheating by the man - abuse
- abondonment - finding out he's a transvestite, etc. Hahahahaha.
BTW - why is it that a man that dresses like a women has such a name as a
'Transvestite' and when a women dresses like a man, she's right in style?
Women's clothes certainly are more comfortable for the most part. Again,
just curious. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65529
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff #65513
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 08:57:16
Then Sandy is indeed a lucky lady - and that's NOT sarcasum. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65530
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on unclean
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 09:09:37
As I said, I wasn't talking about all men or women.
Yes, I will admit that the most foul mouthed people in general have been
women and this has been going on for a very long time - not just lately. But
it seems that now it's so exceptable for women to be so - they have
surpassed the men by far if they are so inclined to use profanity.
Even I am not beyond that - I remember way back in the 50s when it wasn't
exceptable for women to even say 'hell and damn' - had this girlfriend named
Betty and no two fouler mouths could be found! Of course, supposedly being
proper ladies, no one heard us but us!
Men for the most part commit adultry - but alas, women are catching up. I do
not look at that as progress! But this is what I mean about the sexes not
understanding each other - it just is getting worse.
Men are the war monger period! They teach their sons that in many ways -
they encourage them to go all out in sports - win at all cost, be a man!
Don't be a wimp! (what ever that means!) They also start and fight in wars.
Women do not. Under the guise of patriotism, they send them off to the wars
they started. Women do not want their sons going to wars, period!
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65531
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike/last
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 09:11:11
I'll go along with blaming all the Pee Wee Herman fans. But then again,
their probably all men fans! *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65532
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger on hateful
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 10:01:24
Re: "All I have received is hateful contempt from you folks,...."
Gee Roger, I thought I said "I am reading your posts with interest"
but wished you would call it what it is 'theory' and not proven 'fact'.
Just where was my 'hateful contempt'? If you took it as such, SORRY!
I am a clutz when it comes to English.... maybe I over worded my opinion?
Keep up your search for truth...just maybe you will find it.
clif-
Message: 65533
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: All this
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 11:17:27
I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS!!!
Message: 65534
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: cliff/contempt
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 11:26:37
I was not including you in the "you folks" The "you folks" are
Bob Thornburg, Mike Carter, Paul Savage. We'll have to start a
discussion on theory, proof, and fact. But not now.
Message: 65535
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on "acceptance"
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 13:11:21
When kids are small, they "accept" the "fact" that Santa brings presents,
etc. Why should it ever be necessary to learn the truth? Do kids often not
seek out the truth behind the "accepted facts" ? This is what
historical/biblical research is all about -- a better understanding o{
Truth, not just the acceptance of tradition.
Message: 65536
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dog on "acceptance"
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 13:56:47
Re: Last post.... "This is what historical/biblical research is all
about..."
I accept that Dog... BUT, when Atheist have their way, you will find
'religion' not even mentioned in public schools as they have won the right
to ram their evolution theory down on young school children as "accepted
facts". So, what happens to your better understanding of Truth then?
I see, it is alright when it is the other way around... yup!?
clif-
Message: 65537
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike C/700 Club
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 15:08:14
Actually I didn't switch the channel to it in this case. Something more
palatable had been on that channel earlier and the TV was left running for a
while as I was busy with my computer and payed it no mind. Later I saw the
incredible spectacle of recycled WWII propaganda begin and started to watch
it to see where it was leading.
I do watch a religious program intentionally once in a while. Some
preachers have always been very entertaining to hear, and there were some
aspects of the religious right I agreed with enough to pay attention to
them, until it became obvious that intolerance to everyone else was their
biggest motivation.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65538
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 15:18:25
By sissifyed I mean effeminate. This might be accomplished in a number of
ways, but an obvious one would be an upbringing in which everything male was
disparaged and feminine role models and activities were forced on the child
exclusively.
Since you have no trouble blaming men for women turning homosexual, I am
surprised that you even had to ask how women might do the same thing to men.
The failures of communication and trust which you speak of in the one case
surely apply just as well in the other, don't they?
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 65539
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peter
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 17:48:41
Re: "From my experience, a person is totally immobilized physically when
the juice is on."
Peter, tell us how you came to be stunned by a stun gun.
Message: 65540
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on me
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 18:15:41
Where did atheists having their way and schools enter into this discussion?
Roger has been providing information from a scholarly book on biblical
authors, and he is being "bashed" by people who swear up and down that Moses
wrote the first five books and nobody should try to say any different.
Daryl did say that there was "recent info" or words to that effect, that the
work that Roger is quoting from is wrong, but he didn't provide any
pointers, nor the evidence itself.
Message: 65541
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: bringing
Date: 05/11/90 Time: 22:33:33
to Ann
from Jeff Lochansky
about mes. 65503 I think it was called bringing
by the way, I am new at BBSing, so you have to exuse mistakes
to the point: I do not know where you got that idea you discribed,
but it sound to me like you watch to much TV (the Simpsons,Married with
children etc.) I dont think that is the norm any more today, as a
matter of fact when I was married it was reversed, my exwife laid on the
couch all day, did drugs insted of drinking beer ,I worked three jobs,
did the landry, changed the diapers on her daughter etc..then to top it all
of when I went to work she went to her boyfriends house which I didnt
know till she got pregnant, and left me because I wouldnt supply drug
money . I am glad to be rid of her , but I dont blame other women for
that, or think other women do the same thing, and I think you are
generalizing to much with you previous statement. I think that for
some odd reason you dont like men ,except your hubby. If Im wrong
Im sorry, please correct me. Sorry to have butted in on a conversation,
but that was a tuchy subject for me. I just had to show there is an other
side to the coin thanks for listnig to me
Jeff Lochansky
Message: 65542
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last on Jeff L
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 03:09:19
Butt in all you want Jeff.. that is the idea of BBSing. If a subject
hits a nerve, then go for it!
Your posts are improving.... Keep working at it and soon you could
be one of the regulars. (stuck by Modem Madness)
Message: 65543
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie on adultery
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 05:29:19
"Men for the most part commit adultery, but women are catching up."
THere's something wrong with your basic mathematics there Annie. Ever heard
the saying that it takes two to tango? The number of men an women who commit
adultery are exactly the same, since it takes one of each. Just in case you
hadn't noticed. (smile)
Message: 65544
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger Mann
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 05:38:59
Since I have been included in your list of contemptible, hateful people, I
suppose I am required to defend myself.
If you find me contemptible, Roger, that is your problem and your opinion,
not my personality. I hope it is not shared by too many. As to the hateful
part, I do not hate you Roger. I love you as a child of God, just as He
does. It is your humanistic, ungodly attempts at philosophizing and/or
explaining away the Bible, and especially those portions that you find
uncomfortable, that I find abominable, blasphemous and unworthy of a person
for whom Christ died.
I believe that every word of Scripture is God-breathed, and that it was
written by those people to whom credit has been given, as they were inspired
by the Spirit of God to write. I cannot abide this "bible by committee", all
alphabetized and categorized into myths, legends and flights of fancy that
you and Mike Middleton are attempting to foist on people.
My main concern is that you might find some easily misled people who are
gullible enough to buy into such nonsense. If that is hateful or
contemptible in your eyes, so be it, I guess, but I will not apologize for
my beliefs, nor will I back off from them for your convenience.
Message: 65545
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau D.
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 05:42:13
While it is proper to replace fantasy (such as Santa Claus) with truth, it
is not proper to replace truth with fantasy. Much of what passes for
Biblical "research" these days is little more than thinly veiled attempts to
discredit the Bible, the only book that has survived the most vicious of
attacks and attempts at destruction that the world has ever seen. I'm sure
that, as God is still on His throne, it will survive this effort also.
Message: 65546
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff on men
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 08:29:07
Wrong! I love men. Even prefer the company of them over most women (In
general) That is not to say I love machoism or snoose chewing, spitting
dudes that think their studs though. Ha. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65547
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on adultry
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 08:32:27
Yeah - I know it takes two to tango - but most men that commit adultry do so
with un married females on the average - secretary - college coed -
someone's sister. Ha. I think I read once the when a women commits adultry,
she usually does so with a married man. Strange er?
Re: adultry - isn't it adultry if your married and fornication if your not?
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 65548
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Msg # 65535
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 10:06:29
65535 is the largest number adressable by an 8-bit machine using a 16 bit
address...and it was a message about SANTA CLAUS!
This tidbit of stupidity brought to you by today's male.
Message: 65549
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Insults / Roger
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 10:17:46
Again I get insulted. Roger wants me to be a hateful, contemptable
person who isn't swallowing his B.S. hook line and sinker like
he has.
Buhddah once said;
If a man offers a gift to someone..and the someone refuses the gift,
who does it belong to?
To which the man answered, the one who gave it.
Right.
And so Buhddah then said, if a man insults another and the insulted
refuses to accept the insult, who then does it belong to?
To which the man answered, the one who gave it.
Hey Roger; I don't swallow your insult either.
Message: 65550
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul!
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 11:03:13
What hate and contempt there was in your last message to Roger!
Take a step back at your last message to me, and the messages of mine to
which you responded. Don't you see that your "I believe" "attributed to"
etc., all *exactly* correlate with my Santa Claus story? You say "it is
proper to replace fantasy with Truth", you then close your eyes to any
possible search for the truth.
By the way, I'm as sure that the Bible is going to survive as I am sure that
He is still on His throne.
Praise Bob! (2nd paragraph *not* part of argument, only there to inflame)
Message: 65551
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 11:10:10
Re: "The number of men an women who commit
adultery are exactly the same"
Not necessarily Paul. For example, 100 men could all be using the same
woman. I'm not sure about today, but a while back before woman's lib, it
probably was 100 men to 1 woman.
Message: 65552
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 11:11:43
Re: "It is your humanistic, ungodly attempts at philosophizing and/or
explaining away the Bible, and especially those portions that you find
uncomfortable, that I find abominable, blasphemous and unworthy of a person
for whom Christ died."
Well said Paul. I see it the same way.
Message: 65553
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Joke
Subject: Dyslexia
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 12:05:52
What do you call a dyslexic atheist?
Message: 65554
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dyslexia
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 12:06:31
A person who doesn't believe in dog.
Message: 65555
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Joke
Subject: Dyslexia
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 12:07:08
What do you call a dyslexic agnostic with insomnia?
Message: 65556
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dyslexia
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 12:07:44
A person who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog.
Message: 65557
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: paul
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 12:36:50
Well, Paul, to put it mildly, you are wrong.
Message: 65558
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: News Today
Subject: Noah's problem
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 12:53:40
In the story of Noah's ark, Noah has a problem. In Genesis 7:1 we have
YHWH speaking: "And YHWH said to Noah, 'Come, you and all your household,
to the ark, for I have seen you as righteous before me in this generation.
Of all the clean beasts, take yourself seven pairs, man and his woman; and
of the beasts which are not clean, two, man and his woman."
Then in verse 8:
"Of the clean beasts and of the beasts which were not clean, and of the
birds and of all those which creep upon the earth, two of each came to Noah
to the ark, male and female, as GOD had commanded Noah."
Noahs problem is that God has commanded Noah to take two of each of
clean and unclean beasts and YHWH has commanded Noah to take seven of each
of clean and two of unclean beasts. The dilemma: Which god should Noah
obey ? GOD or YHWH ? Since the bible is literally true, and god cannot
lie, then Noah must have been given contradictory instructions by YHWH and
God, and YHWH and God must be two different Gods.
How would you solve Noah's problem if you were in his shoes ?
Message: 65559
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: repley to Ann
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 13:31:14
from Jeff
to Ann
I am glad to hear that you are normal after all. I think you probaly are
a very nice person judging by your posts. I like most of your opinions,
so maybe Ill get in on a vew conversations later on.
see you later--------Jeff (also called Mad Max)-----------
Message: 65560
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: drugs
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 13:48:24
from Jeff Lochansky
to any one
I have an opinion and I wonder if I could get responses.
I think we should take all Drug dealers fly them to a certain south
american country and drop the bomb!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then we should take all the addicts and give them decent help (ie
counseling), not throw them into jail with hardcore criminals.
If any one like to comment on that.
========Jeff Lochansky ( Mad Max)============
Message: 65561
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Bob T
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 20:51:30
Ah, I think we already heard that one (or two for that matter). I thought
it was funny the first time, though.
Message: 65562
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/JEDP
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 22:38:18
I HAVE considered it, Roger. I read the book you seem to hold in such high
esteem. But I've read others. And I've read (and am still reading) the
Bible. I am not at all convinced with the JEDP theory. But I am more
convinced that the Bible is infinitely more important than all the theories
ever made about it put together.
Just because I will not agree with your "pet theory," you consider me to be
some braindead Christian sleepwalker. How can you possibly even CONSIDER
debating Scriptural authorship and authority when you simply disregard any
part of Scripture that you don't agree with. Joshua? Throw it away. Jesus
getting stern with the Scribes and Pharisees? Chuck it. Cut and snip any
part of the Bible that doesn't fit into your tiny pigeonhole category of
what you think God is. I cannot discuss Scriptural integrity with someone
who has no respect for it.
If my tone in this message sounds "un-Christian" to you, I'm sorry. It just
irks me when I find someone with such disregard for Scripture start jumping
on me because I won't believe whatever liberal theory is making the rounds
this week.
You keep telling me to wake up. According to Scripture, it is not I who is
asleep, O fair Roger.
Message: 65563
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Robertson
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 22:42:23
Sheesh.
I think I'll keep my offering in my humble home church collection plate,
thank YOU.
*grin*
Message: 65564
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/Hateful
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 22:52:10
Well, Roger, I think that it is fair to say that you have dished out your
share of "downglancing" ill emotions during this discussion. I have tried to
maintain calm, but given the high level of negativity generated by the other
side, it ain't always easy. Yes, Roger, we still are ONLY HUMAN.
You said that you hope we find peace because we OBVIOUSLY don't have it in
your religion (loose quote). How do YOU know that, Roger? Have you somehow
projected mentally into my brain? I will admit that some of the comments
from a few have been (IMHO) a tad too harsh. But that gives you no right to
make any claim of having insight into our faith and peace with God. I am
QUITE at peace. God has given me faith that does not easily falter in the
face of adversity. And he works it in me through my reading of His word. I
have His promise, I have my peace.
Daryl
Message: 65565
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Question?
Subject: Communication
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 23:27:19
I have a question, and I would very much appriciate any help I can get.
I am trying my luck at different BBSes, and with a lot of them I get so much
garbage on my screen that I can make no sense out of it. I have tried to
change my parameters, but that did not help. The program I am using is=
ULTIMATE(TERM). I did not get any info or operation instructions with it so
I really dont know if I am doing every thing right. So far the only BBS that
works almost perfct for me is Apollo. My setup is: Color Computer 3, 360K DD
disk, 160K SD disk, TRS-80 IB modem, 80 colum high res Mono monitor.
If any one could please take the time to help I would be eternaly grateful.
Thank You ===========Jeff Lochansky=(Mad Max)================
:
Message: 65566
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Gordon/God-proof
Date: 05/12/90 Time: 23:58:35
It's easy to disprove the existence of God. Of course, it all depends how
you define "God," doesn't it?
Message: 65567
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dean/AIDS
Date: 05/13/90 Time: 00:07:15
AIDS was released by a laboratory in Maryland in 1979. It is a government
project designed to combat the population explosion and the social unrest
that would occur as a result of the widespread starvation predicted by
social scientists.
Also, there is a hanger in Nevada where the government keeps the remnants of
a crash landed extra-terrestrial craft, as well as alien remains.
The government has had a cure for AIDS since they developed the virus: as of
this date they have only released part of the cure. The rest will follow
when Sgt. Bilko reruns have achieved saturation syndication.
Mary Jo West has a corner on the world market of Wolframite.
Message: 65568
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: STUN/THORNBOB
Date: 05/13/90 Time: 00:33:18
I enacted a performance art piece some time back, the message
was "violence is good" (tongue in cheek, of course). The audience was
pretty amused until I was repeatedly stunned with a stun gun.
I have it on video which I could bring to the next GT if anyone is
interested.
Message: 65569
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Question?
Subject: Jeff L./the bomb
Date: 05/13/90 Time: 01:24:00
What about drug dealers who are addicts? You know, the ones who are dealing
to support their habit. Do we "nuke" them or give them therapy or both?
I believe in what Pat Robertson said, 'that Christians, in a few years will
be treated like the Jews during WWII'. So, why not substitute Christian for
Drug Dealers and send them all to a middle eastern country and drop the
bomb. I do like to see bibical prophesy come true. I can harldy wait for
the Bear (Russia) and the Eagle (U.S.) to have an all out nuclear war so I
can finally go to heaven and be with my pop.
I also believe that all coffee brokers should be sent to Columbia and nuked
and those who drink the stuff be given therapy. What do you think?
And in a recent Scientific Study if has been proven that the common condom
causes cancer, not to mention red cool-aide.
I'd walk a mile for a Camel, what about you?
Give peace a chance. Don't dive in too deep because the water is shallow if
you know what I don't mean.
Well, gotta feed Harry.
Message: 65570
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/13/90 Time: 01:29:54
Just something to think about sometimes.
Rod
P.S. Roger, I noticed that you are trying to 'enlighten' the Christians.
Good luck, eh. Not a one of them ever answered my last few posts. They can
be blind as you are no doubt finding out.
But you can't really blame them because the alternative is reason and in
this cruel world most men would go stark raving mad without a crutch. Some
choose drugs, some religion.....me, I choose sex. Why not.
THE VOTE
posted 05/10/90
Do you believe the President Kennedy assassination as told to us was the
truth?
[A] Yes! I feel it was told as it happened and there was no conspiracy.
[B] No! I feel there was a cover-up of a conspiracy.
[C] I have no thoughts on this subject.
How do you vote [A-C] or [CR] to abort:B
Poll results to date:
[A] 2 [B] 13 [C] 4
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