Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - May 25 - 27, 1998



*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

Press  to abort

Message: 3500
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod...
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 00:10:58

        If I had a choice between this world and Rod's robotic world, I
would not even hesitate....  I would take this one.  Rod's world is for
people with out brains that can't take a little stress.

Message: 3501
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Hamilton
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 01:42:47

The fact that an item is "essential" does not skew anything; it is part of
the supply/demand equation.  Have you ever been to a "going out of business"
sale?  Often at such sales, prices for goods are marked down
drastically--because it is essential that the store unload its stock as soon
as possible.  In order to encourage consumers to buy merchandise as soon as
possible, the store offers its products at bargain prices.  Again, both
sides get something they need:  the consumer gets goods at low prices and
the store gets rid of its stock and minimizes its losses. 

Similarly, when you need a job very badly, you cannot afford to be as choosy
about what kind of work or what kind of wages you will take.  Thus, you are
getting lower wages, but you are getting something else of value out of the
transaction--an alleviation of your immediate need for money.

Obviously it is not pleasant to be in a situation where you must take an
unpleasant or low-paid job.  But it is not the fault of your employer that
you were unwise or unlucky enough to wind up in such a situation.

Message: 3502
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Jobs
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 07:37:20

  Wisdom or the lack of it had nothing to do with the situation I was in,
nor was it responsible for me getting out of it.  It was pure luck, both
good and bad.  My getting out of the minimum wage job rut was a product of a
number of fortutitous circumstances comming together.  If any one of those
elements had been missing, I'd still be selling Slush Puppies.
  One thing that really annoys me is something I call "tacit colllusion" (if
there's a technical term for it, I don't know what it is).  It works like
this:  7-Eleven sets its wages by spying out what Circle K pays, and matches
it.  Circle K sets its wages by spying out what 7-Eleven pays, and matches
it.  As long as one doesn't raise wages, the other one doesn't.  Although,
as far as I know, they didn't get together in some smokey room somewhere,
and set the wages together, the end result is the same as if they had,
keeping the wages artificially low.
  There *are*, finally, cracks showing in this monolith, though.  Some
minimum wage establishemnts have raised their starting wages to a staggering
$4/hr in some locations.  Phoenix, lucky for us, is one of those areas.  As
more do this in more locations, Circle K/7-Eleven/McDonalds etc. are going
to have their wage cartel nibbled away, and they'll -- finally -- have to
break down and pay more.  I'm not denying that these market forces exist,
I'm just saying that they take years too long to work.  Once management gets
an ideas as to what a job is worth, they are reluctant to change that idea,
even to the point of their business -- and their employees -- being hurt.
  But anyway, I seem to be getting the message, "If you can't live one
$3.35, go ahead and starve, and decrease the surplus population."

Message: 3503
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Last....
Subject: 
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 07:38:29

Am I misunderstanding you?
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *
 
P.S.  That should have been "...can't live ON $3.35 ...."

Message: 3504
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Dean, trouble is ..
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 09:59:33

... 'the workable aspects of modern civilization' has gone amok! That's why
I'm looking into Libertarianism. They won't/couldn't solve all the problems,
but I sure like some of their ideas to some of the problems! =*--ANN--*=

Message: 3505
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Get-Togethers
Subject: Paint Gun Games
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 13:55:15

        Are there ANY brave souls here that would be interested in getting
their frustrations out by having a fun Paint Gun War Game?
The date this would be held is June 19th (Sunday)......
Experiance WAR (without getting killed) It's an experiance not ment for the
meek.
        Ann, you should sit this one out.... he he he

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 3506
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Hamilton
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 14:30:45

The point is, your bad luck is not the fault of your employer.  You were in
a bad position and you needed a job and money in a hurry.  Your employer
gave you something that you needed, and in exchange you gave him your labor.
I do not understand what you can possibly find to complain about in this
situation.

Message: 3507
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Cliff/paint war
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 08:22:30

Yes - I'll sit this one out. When I get the urge to see a war - I watch an
Arnie or Bronson movie and that satisfies my war mongering! Paint gun war??
Gads, couldn't you make it more interesting by using chocolate cream pies or
something? Tsh, tsh. =*--ANN--*=

Message: 3508
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Get-Togethers
Subject: Paint Warz

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:JT

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:        And to boil it all down, a corporate head is getting filthy rich 
 2:from the labors of underpaid employees.  The rule is, whatever the traffic 
 3:will bear.  An organization like that gets little respect from thier 
 4:employees, however the principals laugh all the way to the bank.
 5:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 3513

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$RC

Press  to abort

Message: 3508
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Get-Togethers
Subject: Paint Warz
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 22:51:13

Sure!

Message: 3509
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mini Wages
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 23:01:48

All too recently CNN News featured what has been termed a "Shortage"
of teenage workers. I think they mean't "Stupid, low wage robots".
At any rate, McDonalds' and a few others have expressed dismay at the lack
of job applicants for their minimum wage positions. Now we're seeing
starting wages increasing and I believe part of that is due to the 
fewer applicants of school age. The reasoning behind the wages offered by
Circle K et al is if they can keep folks and a supply of them for $3.35
an hour, why pay more? If they're lining up at your door for such jobs..why
pay anything over what they expect ? Minimum wage is just a formality in
this respect. Waiters/ Buss people used to be set at $2.01 an hour last I
knew due to TIPS being figured in. But if the supply of workers does not
dwindle at a given rate per hour, there is no sane reason to START employees
off at a higher wage. To compete in the market for workers (being a shortage
and all) some companies have made their employ more attractive by upping the
minimum they pay. Ever see price wars?
All in all, if you're that down and out on your luck, can't spend the 35
cents it costs for a newspaper and live in the street, Systems Parking Inc
at Sky Harbor Int'l Airport hires new people in @ 3.85 or better.
They also have a medical plan and some other stuff. So, Alan, there really
is no excuse to keep the wages low anymore...

Message: 3510
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 00:26:17

It's true; the minimum wage is become irrelevant.  It may be one of the
reasons the U.S. is at full employment now (actually, above what most
economists were saying was full employment), so of course, Congress wants to
mess with things.

Message: 3511
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Burkhart
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 01:18:06

If you was smarter, you might of proofred that last message more better.

Message: 3512
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Wages
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 09:11:44

   I agree, $3.35 is becomming irrelevent due to the increasing number of
jobs at the low end of the pay scale.  I'm not really in favor of raising it
-- just leaving it there as a floor.
   Question, JT:  If I find you bleeding in an alley, should I require that
you give me everything you own before I call the paramedics?  Isn't that
just capitalism?  After all, if the price for the service I'm rendering is
too high, you can just refuse to pay, right?  Of course, you'd die, but your
misfourtune isn't my fault.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 3513
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: JT
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 12:50:20

        And to boil it all down, a corporate head is getting filthy rich
from the labors of underpaid employees.  The rule is, whatever the traffic
will bear.  An organization like that gets little respect from thier
employees, however the principals laugh all the way to the bank.

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EA

You chose Answer!

Subject:Dean

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:        Yes, you are correct in your summary about me wanting people to be 
 2:different.  A farmer has to plant the seeds in order to get a crop.
 3:                                Rod
 4:P.S.  Did you hear about my children standing out in front of their 
 5:respective schools, shouting atheist propaganda?
 6:P.P.S.  Today is Christians 18th birthday celebration.
 7:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 3514

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Creative Corner Bulletin Board entered *=*

Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:$C

Press  to abort

Message: 816
Author: $ Rod Bias
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod Williams
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 02:07:03

     
     
     You are beginning to sound like a "closet" Christian.
     
     
     
     Come on, admit it.  You love the Lord Jesus.
     
     
     Right?
     

Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:Rod/No

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:        You have got to be joking there.  I seriously do not believe that 
 2:such a person ever existed except in old myths.  Sorta reminds me of the 
 3:superman episodes.  Gee, this guy was susposed to have been around 2000 
 4:years ago, maybe he became lost by making a wrong turn in the cosmos.
 5:                                        Rod
 6:end

Edit command:C

 6:P.S.  I call myself an atheist, you call yourself a Christian.  In reality 
 7:we are both agnostic because nobody really knows for sure, we each must have
 8:our faith.  Mine is based on the scientific method, yours on myth and 
 9:emotion.
10:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 817

Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Bulletin Board entered *=*

Bulletin Board command:$C

Press  to abort

Message: 52346
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Burkhart
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 01:08:15

How can you act as though you feel sorry to lose a user who has the
capability to threaten the lives of people you consider to be your friends?
Perhaps you just don't realize what has been going on, since your focus
still seems to be on just how the story got spread around, not on the
totally irrational way Mark has responded to the prank.

Message: 52347
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Adkins
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 01:31:32

Well, if you want to come out to Los Angeles, I suppose that is your
prerogative.  I do not understand why you would want to do so, however:  I
had nothing to do with the prank--I did not even hear the tape, and when I
was told about it, I decided it was so repugnant that I blew the whistle on
Hawley.

From what I have heard about the prank, I do not blame you for wanting
revenge.

Message: 52348
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 01:46:02

Watch it, JT, you're not that far away.

Message: 52349
Author: $ Rod Bias
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Adkins/Burkhart
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 02:34:52

     
     
     All I know is what I've read here.  I don't want to know more.
     
Mark, if you read this.  Give me a call sometime and let's get together.
     
Burkhart's post sounded like a sincere apology to me.  Of course, he
     
may have meant it tongue-in-cheek or have been insincere.  Mark, I don't
     
know Burkhart, but giving him the benefit of the doubt might be right.
     
I have no idea what was done to you, but I am sorry you are hurting so
     
badly from experiencing it.  Cliff may be right about keeping your name 
     
in the log to keep someone else logging on and pretending to be you.  That
     
could just exacerbate things.
     

Message: 52350
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Taranto
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 05:06:21

Your 'story' is so ridiculous, that I think you may have a job in your
future writing Sci-Fi.

This whole thing would not have escalated to the point it has if not for
you.  

Your claim that you found the whole thing repugnant is silly.  Burkhart told
me that you and Cervelli thought it was hilarious.  You pumped him for more
information for your enjoyment.  You have also pulled a similiar prank on
Dean McCarron, so don't give me your sanctimonious crap.

You entered half-truths and lies on the main board in your so called story
of what happened.  "This Sundays New York Times reported..."

You or Cervelli logged in under Marc Adkins and left a message trying to
provoke me.  You also prompted David Burkhart to call Mark pestiferious in a
post on the main board.  (This was part of the tape recording that JT &
Cervelli found most amusing.  Mark' common usage of large words.)

I ended up telling Mark about the prank because YOU were trying to embaress
him.  The final point is that you and Cervelli have always enjoyed
aggravating me, and this way you got to put me on the hot seat, and make fun
of your major debating competition.

Message: 52351
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 05:41:04

No, I have not had anything alcoholic for some 15 years now, and frankly
don't miss it a bit. Alcohol, as any other drug, including nicotine, are
escape valves for those who lack the courage or strength to face their
problems and overcome them in a victorious and permanent way.
 The major problem with the whole idea is that it never works. All the
problems you were facing before you looked to the narcotic for "relief" are
still there when you come back to reality, plus the problems, both physical
and emotional that you added to the list by running to the "great reliever"
in the first place.

Message: 52352
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 05:53:01

For crying out loud Rod! Stop blaming society for the flotsam and jetsam in
the gutters of life! THey are there because they want tobe there! THey are
there because the welfare system was good enough for their grandparents, and
their parents, so it's good enough for them. They don't rise above the
ghetto because they don't have the gumption to get off their butts and do
something about their circumstances!
As toyour ignorance about what I did for a living, let m set you straight on
that. In the first place, I worked for the Postal Service for 32 years, not
20, and in all that time I never once was ashamed to face the man full on
when he came around with the paychecks. I provided a necessary service to
the people in my area, did it professionally and with dignity, and was
genuinely concerned and involved with both my duties and my customers. Cushy
job? Your ass! For 32 years, I prepared and correctly delivered anywhere
from 1500-3000 pieces of mail per day to an average 300 homes a day. I
rarely used any overtime, put up with vicious dogs, (bitten 3 times in 32
years), inconsiderate jackasses who gt their driver's licenses in Cracker
Jack boxes, worked outside on an average of 5 hours a day, rain, shine
and/or 115 degrees, and was well thought of by all those with whom I came in
contact, be it customer, manager or fellow worker. Besides my regular duties
as a carrier, I served as the shop steward, representing the carriers in my
unit (and elected by them) in any contractual dispute or unfair labor
practice for 15 years, and did so with dedication, and with the ability to
resolve differences in a way that was suitable to all concerned. So take
your ideas back to the drawing board and think before you type!

Message: 52353

Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit Chat

Subject:Paul

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:       115 degree heat, your butt.  The news may say that it was 115 on a 
 2:given day but I carry a digital thermometer around with me and the average 
 3:'driving around tempature during the summer is more like 125 degrees.  When 
 4:you get on the blacktop it becomes more like 132 and my alarm goes off at 
 5:139 degrees and there hasn't been a year that it hasn't gone off.  It get 
 6:over 150 degrees in an automobile that is sitting on the pavement or from a 
 7:moving Postal Service Jeep that has a thin firewall.  You can quote me.
 8:        32 years, eh!  Wow.
 9:        I don't believe you are entirely correct about ghetto people wanting
10:to be that way.  Many of them start out with counts already against them and
11:by the time they are able to work the deck is stacked.
12:                                Rod
13:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 52379

Bulletin Board command:$RC

Press  to abort

Message: 52353
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peace?
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 06:10:20

Since all I know of the situation, or care to know, is what little I have
read on Apollo, I am in no position to poit a finger at anyone, and do not
intend to do so.
 It saddens me, however, that the use (or misuse) of a media such as this,
or the temporary "fun" of pulling what may be considered a harmless prank or
practical joke, has brought some people who have been friends in the past to
a point of hate and fear that seems to be permeating this situation between
Mark and Rod and a few others.
 Memories of a few years ago get jogged, memories of a good friend of a lot
of us who wound up dead on the front lawn of another hobbyist in his other
recreation, CB radio.
May God grant the participants in this situation a spirit of love and
forgiveness before things deteriorate any further. Not only do hate and
vengeance accomplish nothing. THey are extremely self-destructive and
debilitating. Please, dear Lord, let there be peace.

Message: 52354
Author: $ Alan Ha

Bulletin Board command:EA

You chose Answer!

Subject:Paul/Peace

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:        The funny part is that I had no prior knowledge of the prank and did
 2:not even find out about it until many weeks afterwards.  Burkhart, JT, Nick 
 3:and a few others knew about it long before me.  However, Mark Adkins thought
 4:he heard my voice in the background and that was good enough for him.  Mark 
 5:is not playing with a full deck.
 6:                                        
 7:        He has made 'nasty' phone calls to me as well as sending really 
 8:hateful mail.  At first I tried to reason with his sense of forgiveness but 
 9:gave that up when I saw that his mind was 'over the edge'.  
10:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 52380

Bulletin Board command:$RC

Press  to abort

Message: 52354
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: War!
Subject: ...and peace
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 07:14:30

   In regards to what Paul just said, dare I say "amen!"?
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 52355
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 08:59:43

Though Mark was wronged by the prank, a death threat is a serious issue even
if the whole thing is a practical joke.

Message: 52356
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: On the Prank ..
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 09:42:02

I agree with Paul - if this doesn't stop, many friendships will be ruined by
it. I hate losing Mark - but if a halt isn't called - a lot of you sound
like your on the verge of becoming enemies. Don't do this over a prank that
went sour. It's not worth it. Apologies were said and should be excepted and
then dropped. We're all human and make mistakes. It's one thing to argue
over a proposed freeway or abortion or smoking - but this thing is totally
negative and distructive. This is basically a happy board, but it's not now!
=*--ANN--*=

Message: 52357
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/drinking
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 09:49:08

Basically I do agree with you Paul. My primise is 'moderation' (in most
things) and I feel a drink now and then will not distroy anyone and is no
more harmful the the air we breath - probably a lot less. Not to mention
pestisides, food colorings etc. etc. - things it's hard to keep away from.
Remember, there are a lot of countries where the drinking of wine is a daily
thing by children and adults alike and they have no problems with it. The
problems start when people 'use' these things for stress or the like - or
think they need it. Am I right? =*--ANN--*=

Message: 52358
Author: $ Peter Cervelli
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mark Adkins
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 14:10:08

I, for one, am a bit disappointed that I was not included in Mark's "hit
list."  If anyone is deserving of being killed it is me--after all, the
entire prank was my idea.  It was through my doing that it was executed and
it was for my amusement that Mark suffered.

Message: 52359
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hawley
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 14:23:57

Look, I understand that you're in a tight spot.  Mark is extremely upset
over your nasty prank, and I do not blame him.  I think he is overreacting,
but, as you have found, this is an occupational hazard of cruelly
manipulating other people's emotions.  I hope that this blows over and
nothing serious happens to you, but I do not appreciate your dragging me
into this in order to take the heat off yourself.

Message: 52360
Author: Apro Poet
Category: Tales & Tall Stories
Subject: Tru Fax
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 17:43:38

  The following letter appeared in the syndicated advice
column "Dear Abby":
  "Dear Abby:  These so-called holidays are being blown up
way out of proportion.  Last June, a grandfather waited 
until evening, and still no Father's Day card, so he wrote a
note expressing his despair at being forgotten.  First he 
shot and killed three members of his family, then he killed
himself!  Sad?  And worse yet, he had the date of Father's
Day figured one week too early, so he killed three people 
and himself for nothing.  Signed: Ann Pratt, Homer, Mich."

  According to British Colombia's *Quesnel Cariboo 
Observer*, a Quesnel man fined three hundred dollars for
having no valid auto insurance was named Hap Hazzard.

  Don Ratchford, principal of East Gaston High School in
Mount Holly, North Carolina, requested that Pepsi-Cola be
substituted for Coke at the school's football concession
stands because Coke failed to service its vending machines.
  The Coka-Cola Company responded by sending in a work crew
to remove the electronic scoreboard they had donated to the
school in 1984.  *Sporting News*

Message: 52361
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hathaway/ammo
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 21:43:34

  I really doubt that you can make your own ammo.
  For one thing, how do you make the shells?  And how do you mold the
bullets?  And what formula for powder do you use?  I'll bet you're just
exaggerating, and that you simply do reloads.

==========  Pascal  #(O,O)# Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ==========

Message: 52362
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Answer!
Subject: Savage/drugs
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 21:44:55

  I'm with you, brother!  It sure is great not to be addicted to nicotine,
alcohol, marijuana, or any such terrible stuff, isn't it?
  (Now where did I put that Diet Pepsi?)

==========  Pascal  #(O,~)# Wink!  MacProgrammer  ==========

Message: 52363
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ammo
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 21:52:37

        I do not know about Dean, but I do have a machine shop and can make
the brass, molds for the lead and I have made powder in the past.   If need
be, I could make a bullet from scratch...and once I get the tooling set up,
It would be easy to crank out the suckers in large ammounts.
        For the most part, I do reload my oun ammo...  if they outlawed
bullets, I have enough supplies to last a very long time.  Sometimes I come
home with more brass than I went with.  Many shooters don't pick up their
brass, but I do.

Cliff

Message: 52364
Author: Karl Hakmiller
Category: Bulletins
Subject: Hello from CT
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 22:22:59

 
                 The Ivory Tower PCBoard
 
             24 Hours             Dataline:
             2400/1200/300        (203)-649-5611
 
                         8-N-1
 
            Manchester, CT       Karl Hakmiller, SYSOP
 
            *-  QMODEM SST spoken & supported
            *-  Full UL/DL registration On_Line
            *-  MSDOS/PCDOS flavored programs
            *-  TutoI%l & RT discussion files
            *-  PC PURSUIT Conference due soon
 
                    Since A, 1988
                  (but who's counting...)        5/24/88
 

Hello, folks.  Just passing thru.  Enjoyed the short visit.  Cheers...

Message: 52365
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Adkins
Date: 05/25/88  Time: 23:13:40

Well, it's clear Adkins has overreacted to this.  As long as we're bringing
things out, the nature of the prank was that Christian called Mark and
flirted with him.  Hawley wanted to hear what Mark was saying, so he pressed
record on his answering machine.  Mainly what Mark was saying was "come on
Christian, give it up.  This is a silly joke.  Is Hawley listening in?"
So I'm really not sure why Mark is so upset.  But I am sorry that he is, and
I regret that I happened to hear about the prank (though I doubt Adkins
would have refused to hear the tape were it of me).
I also think Dean McCarron was the victim of far worse pranks, and he dealt
with them quite well.  So there's no sense in dragging this out, or talking
of revenge (I went to Rich Fohl's rosary...)

Message: 52366
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann/habits
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 05:35:34

The countries you mentioned that start children on wine at an early age have
all the problems with substance abuse that are prevalent in the U.S.
And more.
They just don't have the communications media making major issues out of the
problems. Why do you suppose that you seldom if ever hear about the drug
problem, or sexual problems, etc. in the Soviet Union? It's not that they
aren't afflicted. It's a state controled press that will not allow such
detrimental things to be advertised.
And your comparison between your self-inflicted poison and that which we are
all forced to ingest due to our environment is nonsense.
The alcohol and tobacco you intentionally place in your system does much,
much more damage than the air we share. We can also justify the latter,
since we cannot prevent everyone from driving their vehicles, nor can we
shut down all industry.
 THere is no justification for self-induced poisoning of body and mind.
Sorry Ann, you lose again.

Message: 52367
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/ammo
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 05:44:56

I also doubt that most shooters own their own machine shop.
You'll have to admit that you are in a somwhat better position to make ammo
than Joe Average Hunter/Shooter.
However, the original premise, to allow guns but prevent the manufacture or
sale of ammo, is rather facetious, if not downright dangerous.
It's not much different than giving a kid a piece of lead pipe and some
gunpowder and telling him to g make a firecracker, is it?
Unless a person is well schooled in the art of ammo making, he could be
creating one bodacious monster.

Message: 52368
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/drugs
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 08:16:46

I guess I'll declare you winner here. Your right - I can't argue the points
you are making - but I will say, I do enjoy lots of things that others would
not enjoy - I eat salt, sugar, butter etc. etc. I try to do everything in
moderation. (smoking, I do not and will admit that) Through the media -
almost everything has been deemed bad for you. Now they are even saying that
the diet for your heart may be bad for cancer! - good for the heart - but
may cause cancer. A person could spend all of their life worried about what
they eat and drink in order to live a long healthy life. I know of some that
wouldn't touch coffee, but drink 6-7 cokes a day etc. Most of the people I
know and have known, never smoked or drank - yet they got sick in their old
age and finally died. I think your genes - what you have inheirited (sp)
from your parents has more to do with your health than any thing else. I'm
not saying you can't 'hurry' it up, but being over caucous (sp? sorry) is
not my cup of tea. I go to places like Apache Junction and Sun City and see
all the really old people, smoking, drinking - are in excellent health and
very active. That has been their life style for 50 or more years. If and
when they die, I hardly think it's because of their vices! We are two
different people Paul - for you, perhaps those habits are bad - for me, I do
not feel they are. I enjoy them and will continue to do so until I want to
change them - in moderation, of course! If I had to give up my so called
vices and exercize daily for the rest of my life and watch everything I ate
- I wouldn't want to live. It would be too boring for me. =*--ANN--*=

Message: 52369
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/ammo
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 08:19:13

I can see it all now - finally they pass a law taking away our guns - then
the machine shop business becomes very popular and first thing you know, it
will be against the law to have a un-licienced machine shop! Especially in
their garage! hahahaha. =*--ANN--*=

Message: 52370
Author: Apro Poet
Category: Joke
Subject: Wakebusters
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 17:59:16

         Nineteen Ways to Be Offensive at a Funeral

Tell the widow that the deceased's last wish was that she
have sex with you.
Tell the undertaker that he can't close the coffin until you
find your contact lens.
Punch the body and tell people that he hit you first.
Tell the widow that you're the deceased's gay lover.
Ask someone to take a snapshot of you shaking hands with the
deceased.
At the cemetery, play taps on a kazoo.
Walk around telling people that you've seen the will and
they're not in it.
Ask the widow to give you an enema.
Drive behind the widow's limo and keep honking your horn.
Tell the undertaker that your dog just died and ask if he 
can sneak him into the coffin.
Place a hard-boiled egg in the mouth of the deceased.
Slip a whoopee cushion under the widow.
Leave some phony dog $#!+ on top of the deceased.
Tell the widow that you have to leave early and ask if the
will can be read before the funeral is over.
Urge the widow to give the deceased's wooden leg to someone
poor who can't afford firewood.

Message: 52371
Author: Apro Poet
Category: Joke
Subject: Wakebusters
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 18:01:11

Walk around telling people that the deceased didn't like 
them.
Use the deceased's tongue to lick a stamp.
Ask the widow for money which the deceased owes you.
Take up a collection to pay off the deceased's gambling 
debts.

Message: 52372
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 19:16:16

Actually, under glasnost, there's been some mention of the big problem with
alcoholism in the Soviet Union.  Also, I can't remember the exact statistic,
but there is something like 3 times as many auto accidents in the USSR, even
though there's around a 5th as many cars.  The main reason for this is DWIs.
It's not just because their society is repressive, but because they have a
cultural tradition of lots of vodka drinking.
They also have growing problems with heroin (some of which may disappear now
that there aren't as many soldiers in Afghanistan).

Message: 52373
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Question?
Subject: Burkhart
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 19:42:45

Three times as many auto accidents as what?

Message: 52374
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Answer!
Subject: Above
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 20:20:13

  Obviously, he meant three times as many as they had before.

==========  Pascal  #(O,O)# Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ==========

Message: 52375
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: MacGregor/Ammo
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 21:51:56

  I don't make ammunition from scratch because I don't have to. If I
couldn't buy ammo or reloading components I could still get by. I have a
friend who casts bullets, I could make powder if I had to, and I have enough
empty cartridges to last a long time (then I could switch to a percussion
gun and not use cartridges at all). The fact of the matter is though, that
absolutely no good could possibly come from such a law. Ammunition and
components are easily made or smuggled and outlawing it would only prevent
law abiding citizens from using their guns for sporting purposes. Everyone
would still have guns and the crime rate could hardly be expected to go
down. Criminals already have to ignore a number of laws in order to commit a
crime with a gun, so one more won't make a lot of difference. It doesn't
take much ammo to be a criminal anyway. One revolver full would probably
hold you for years. It is the sportsman or citizen who wants to be in
practice for safety reasons who burns a lot of ammo.
  See you later,
   Dean H.

Message: 52376
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: USSR
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 00:22:59

Oops, that should have been three times as many as the U.S.  But again, I'm
grabbing those numbers from memory.  The main point is that they have a
disproportionate number of accidents.

Message: 52377
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Burkhart/USSR
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 01:17:13

Obviously the Politburo should consider instituting the 55 mph speed limit.

Message: 52378
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 09:02:50

    Except that, even in the US, most accidents happen under 45 mph.

    It has been suggested that, since most acccidents occur within 15 miles
of home, that everyone move 20 miles from where they are to cut the accident
rate.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 52379
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 13:08:37

       115 degree heat, your butt.  The news may say that it was 115 on a
given day but I carry a digital thermometer around with me and the average
'driving around tempature during the summer is more like 125 degrees.  When
you get on the blacktop it becomes more like 132 and my alarm goes off at
139 degrees and there hasn't been a year that it hasn't gone off.  It get
over 150 degrees in an automobile that is sitting on the pavement or from a
moving Postal Service Jeep that has a thin firewall.  You can quote me.
        32 years, eh!  Wow.
        I don't believe you are entirely correct about ghetto people wanting
to be that way.  Many of them start out with counts already against them and
by the time they are able to work the deck is stacked.
                                Rod

Message: 52380
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Paul/Peace
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 13:13:29

        The funny part is that I had no prior knowledge of the prank and did
not even find out about it until many weeks afterwards.  Burkhart, JT, Nick
and a few others knew about it long before me.  However, Mark Adkins thought
he heard my voice in the background and that was good enough for him.  Mark
is not playing with a full deck.
                                        
        He has made 'nasty' phone calls to me as well as sending really
hateful mail.  At first I tried to reason with his sense of forgiveness but
gave that up when I saw that his mind was 'over the edge'.  

Bulletin Board command:JVOI

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* VOID Bulletin Board entered *=*

VOID Bulletin Board command:$C

Press  to abort

Message: 1349
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Twisters
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 17:39:28

        Fischers Fritz fischt frische Fische
        Frische Fische fischt Fischers Fritz.

        Le ver vert va vers le verre vert.

        Yo no compro coco. Porque como poco coco,
           poco coco compro.

        Tres tristes tigres trillaron trigo en un trigal.

        Compre poco capa parda, porque el que poco
           capa parda compra poco capa parda paga.

        Rubber baby buggy bumpers.

        Round and round the rugged rock the ragged rascal ran.

        I thought a thought.
        But the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I thought.
        If the thought I thought I thought had been the thought I thought, I
           wouldn't have thought so much.

(none are original -- sniff)

Message: 1350
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: B.B.D.
Subject: last
Date: 05/26/88  Time: 23:07:26

She sells sea shells by the sea shore.
Peter piper picked a pickled pepper
etc etc etc
 
What warranted this outburst?

Message: 1351
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy/tongue twister
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 06:56:55

Say ...

'One smart fellow, he felt smart.
Two smart fellows, they felt smart.
Three smart fellow, they felt smart.

... say it very fast.

Message: 1352
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandy .. or
Date: 05/27/88  Time: 06:59:18

Say ..

I slit a sheet, a sheet I slit.
Upon a slitted sheet I sat.

...say it very fast.

Boy, this sig. has turned into an educational one hasn't it? Ha.

VOID Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit Chat

Subject:lasts

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:Big Black, Bugs Blood.
 2:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 1353