Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - May 2, 1998


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Message: 3424
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Working
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 09:44:24

  Seeing a street bum holding a sign saying 'I will work for food' being
given food without being asked to work gave me an idea. Will we soon see
people standing at intersections holding signs that read, 'I will work for
sex', or 'I will work for appliances'?
  See you later,
     Dean H.

Message: 3425
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 09:55:37

Last time I saw one of those guys, I imagined a street hitman holding a sign
"Will Kill for Food".

Message: 3426
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Dean/sign
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 10:57:11

My husband encounter one of those guys holding up a sign on a street cornor
that said "Want any work - desparate!"
My husband was desparate for laborers and stopped. Said he'd pay $5 an hour
for clean up work on an apartment he was almost through with. The guy seemed
grateful and said he'd be there at 7:AM the next morning! He got there at
9:30 AM - someone dropped him off and he had two opened beers in his hand!
After my husband gave him a lexture about no drinking on the job - he gave
him a broom! That's all he did was sweep until noon and then he says to my
husband "I can't do this kind of hard work for only $5 an hour"! He did not
do anymore sweeping or anything else! My husband now has a policy not to
pick these guys up - he's been burned too many times. They don't want to
work and want a big pay check. Their classic excuse is - "I have a wife and
kids at home and can't work for $5 an hour. These guys never have any skills
either. If they did - then he'd pay them more if they worked for it.
=*--ANN--*=

Message: 3427
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Want work, desperate
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 13:11:50

I too have seen some of these guys sitting on corners.  The best are when
they have a few children with them.  I felt sorry for the first few I saw,
but now I think it has become a scam.  I was discussing this with Sandy a
few weeks ago, and she said that she watched one of these so called
desperate people for a few days in passing.  One day he was by himself, the
next he brought some little kids with him to heighten the effect.  Some of
these guys are pulling in $150 a day.  Perhaps I should borrow a couple of
Rods smaller children, dress them and myself in rags, and find a good
corner!

Message: 3428
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 14:26:33

Yeah, and if we're lucky, you'll all be run over by a truck.

Message: 3429
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Guys with signs
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 16:48:29

Hey, holding those signs is hard work.

Message: 3430
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Last....
Subject: Sign People
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 21:53:07

  I suppose we should be applauding them for pioneering a new tax-free
approach to capital formation. If we get in on the ground floor now, before
the industry becomes regulated to prevent further competition, we stand a
good chance of being able to clean up. The franchising rights alone could be
worth a fortune.
  See you later,
     Dean H.

Message: 3432
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: David/signs
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 11:21:15

Yeah - that is hard work. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting payment
for all that hard work! =*--ANN--*=
P.S. The worst guy my husband hired came to work the next day with four
kids! On a construction job no less! Said his wife worked and they didn't
have a baby sitter. That one, he was a real sucker for (my husband) - he let
him work the day. What happened? Almost at quitting time, one of the kids
got hurt and it cost my husband $150 for stitches at the doctor's office!
This guy just let his kids have the run of the site. It was an unfortunate
valuble lesson.

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Subject:WORK

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 1:        I get Central and Indian School.  Also, my children are for rent, 
 2:10% of the take.  Yes, I will work for sex.
 3:end

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Message: 51996
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Prophets of Oct. 19
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:07:36

Since October 19 of last year, 59 straight months of economic growth have
become 65 straight months of economic growth.  Following are a sampling of
prophecies from the immediate aftermath of the "crash of '87," compiled by
The American Spectator:

     "If it felt like the end of a world, that's because it was; last week's
global crash has created a whole new financial reality. . . . In disquieting
echoes of Herbert Hoover, Reagan and his men proclaimed that 'the economic
fundamentals in this country remain sound.'"
     --"Panic of 1987," news story, Newsweek, November 2

     "In a statement issued last night, the White House asserted that 'the
underlying economy remains sound.'  With the fire alarm wailing on Wall
Street and the country anxios for leadership, it gets an astonishing rerun
of Herbert Hoover.  When will Mr. Reagan start fighting the fire?"--The New
     --Editorial, The New York Times, October 20

     "The Binge is over.  It couldn't go on forever--the quick fortunes, the
midnight raids and computer driven program trades, the junk bonds, poison
pills, leveraged buyouts, options--all the glitz and glamour, the danger and
thrill.  It's over. . . .
     "But now it's morning and the binge seems to be over.  Many have
hangovers.  Many have worse.  The jackasses are clearly identifiable.  And
the rest of us, who pretended not to notice, are left with the job of

Message: 51997
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 10/19/87
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:10:16

cleaning up the mess."
     --Op-ed piece by Professor Robert B. Reich, New York Times, October 22

     "The noise you heard was not just the crash of the market.  It was the
crumbling of support for Ronald Reagan.
     "In a moment of frightening crisis, the President of the United States
was treated as essentially irrelevant.  The financial experts and politcians
who appeared on television, people of both parties, showed no expectation of
leadership from Mr. Reagan.  It was as if the were embarrassed to mention
his name.
     "The reason for this disregard is no great mystery.  Practically no one
in this country, not even those who admire Mr. Reagan as a person, thinks he
has any sense of economic reality . . .
     "The age of Reagan is over now, no matter what happens."
     -Anthony Lewis, The New York Times, October 22.

     "Imagine if the president and Congress had agreed last summer to cut
the federal deficit by $60 billion.  Let's say they did it through a
20-cent-a-gallon gasoline tax for about $20 billion, trimming middle-class
entitlements another $20 billion (ending the tax exemption for Social
Security payments is almost enough to do this alone), and raising tax rates
one percent for another $20 billion.  That may not be an ideally fair and
efficient formula.  It's just one of many possible variations on the theme
of getting America's appetites back under control.

Message: 51998
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Prophets of October
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:19:41

     "The pont is this:  Can anyone doubt that such an achievement would
have prevented the crash? . . .
     "Conservatives like to accuse liberals of a 'beltway mentality'--a
removal from the reality that lies outside the golden circle.  But inside
the Beltway is where the blinding mist of Reaganism has ben the thickets. 
Conservatives actually thought they had abolished the Phillips Curve.  That
much-mocked concept, which holds that there's a tradeoff between avoiding
inflation and avoiding recession, also expresses the broader principle that
economic policy choices cannot be pain-free.  The Phillips Curve is about to
boomerang upon us with a vengence.
     "For years the doom-and-gloomers have had to endure the taunt:  'What
do you know that the stock market doesn't?'  (Or, 'If you're so smart, how
come everyone else is getting rich?')  Nevertheless, this is hardly an
occasion for gloating."
     --Michael Kinsley, The New Republic, October 21

     "The usual way of handling crises at the White House--at least since
Herbert Hoover--has been for the president to call in the wise men to the
Oval Office, sit them down and tell them to fix it.
     "This is not Ronald Reagan's style. . . .
     "The first day, he shouted that the economy was in good shape.  The
second day, he said it was all Congress's fault.  The third day, he said
that only people who refused to buy, and, of course, the press, could bring
on a recession.  Embarrassed aides were explaining that his 'Who-me, what-

Message: 51999
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Prophets of October
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:24:41

crisis' approach was a considered strategy to avert panic. . . .
     "But the financial community is ready to admit that it is the morning
after the biggest binge in history.  The president hates to say the party's
over."
     --Mary McGrory, The Washington Post, October 22

     "We are on a nonstop binge, punishing our economy.  It's outrageous
that our elected officials say the fundamentals of the economy are sound;
NONE of the fundamentals are sound."
     --H. Ross Perot, Newsweek, November 2

     "Five years of economic prosperity, in which unemployment has steadily
dropped while inflation has remained surprisingly low, has infused much of
the nation with a false sense of well-being."
     --Editorial, Philadelphia Inquirer, October 20

     "In a sense, it was the Reagan Revolution come full circle:  the
excesses of the past six years, visible in deficits near $200 billion a year
in both the budget and trade, couldn't go on forever. . . .
     "Now, the joy ride is over, but so far, the staggering record stock
market collapse . . . has met with government denial reminiscent of 1929.
. . . 'The economy is fundamentally sound,' said Treasury Secretary James A.
Baker III.  And President Reagan, who gives every evidence of being totally
out of touch with reality, told reporters:  'I don't know what meaning it

Message: 52000
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Prophets of October
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:28:51

might have, all the business indexes are up--there's nothing wrong with the
economy."
     --Herbert Rowan, The Washington Post, October 21

     "A political scientist, Michael Nelson, has observed that the
Presidents from Franklin Roosevelt to John Kennedy were generally portrayed
as Saviors, Johnson and Nixon were cartooned as Satans, and Ford and Carter
as Samsons--weak Presidents shorn of their strength.  Reagan seems to invite
the thought that he has found a new model, the Salesman, in the last act,
standing on a stage about to go dark."
     --Lance Morrow, Time, November 9

     "Although the huge financial shakeout we have just experienced was not
inevitable, it was to some extent predictable.  As 20th century history
shows, a period of conservative Republican dominance leads to a failed
capitalim, while a period of liberal Democratic dominance creates and
sustains the conditions for successful capitalism."
     --Dr. Hyman P. Minsky, The New York Times, October 22

     "This debacle marks the last chapter of Reaganomics. . . . In 1929
every high member of the Hoover administration rushed to say that the
economy was 'fundamentally sound.'  That is exactly what I seem to be
hearing these days.  They seem to have dug out the old script.  The prospect
of the present administration doing anything is hampered by the fact that it

Message: 52001
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Prophets of October
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:31:24

believes that God is a Republican and will handle things."
     --John Kenneth Galbraith, Newsweek, November 2

     "Galbraith is uncharacteristically modest about his predictive powes. 
'It requires neither courage nor prescience to predict disaster,' he writes
on the first page of 'The Great Crash: 1929,' which Houghton Mifflin is
reissuing this month.  Still, in a clairvoyant article in the Atlantic last
winter, nine months before the crash of 1987, Galbraith set out what he saw
to be alarming parallels to 1928 . . ."
     --The Washington Post, March 30, 1988 [!]

By the way, the Consumer Price Index rose only 0.23 percent during February,
and the GNP rose 4.8 percent for the final quarter of 1987.

Message: 52002
Author: Dennis Connolly
Category: Bulletins
Subject: Coconet
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 01:41:44

Coconet is now run by Rob Wendling, with a temporary
number of 483-0690. It is run 10pm-3pm M-F, and 10pm-7am 
(I think) on weekends, till the 24 hour line is set up.
It is still 300/1200 baud.
Please help spread the word of the changes since most of
the calls I have been getting at the old number hang up as
soon as they hear a voice. 
Dennis Connolly, former Sysop of Coconet.

Message: 52003
Author: $ Mike Howerton
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Taranto
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 02:56:48

My, how he rambles.

Message: 52004
Author: Mike Stackpole
Category: War!
Subject: Fred Weber/KFYI
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 07:29:02

Listen up, folks...
        FRED WEBER, GM of KFYI has gotten an order restraining listeners
from writing to sponsors to express their displeasure with the dimissal of
Tom Leykis.  Whether or not you like Tom and his style, you must agree this
is a major violation of OUR constitutional rights.  Weber clearly feels that
he has enough money to intimidate people who are only exercising their
rights of free speech.
        Fine, if he wants to do that, let's make him spend all of his money.
 If we all write letters to the sponsors, we'll force Fred to have papers
served on all of us.  That costs money.  If we get lots of people to do it,
it will cost lots of money.  If Weber wants to intimidate us, let him pay
for it.
        I urge you to listen to KFYI long enough to get the names of some
sponsors, and then let them know how you feel about these heavy handed
tactics.  Weber clearly is feeling the pressure from the sponsors, and it is
our duty to turn the heat up.
        This is America, dammit, and we have rights, too!
Mike Stackpole

Message: 52005
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike who?
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 08:05:23

Who the heck is Mike Stackpole, anyway  - sounds a lot like some guy
that used to use a pseudonym...
    Anyway, I have watched this thing at KFYI with interest.  Hey, how in
the world can someone get such a restraining order?  What judge in this
entire nation would order it so?  Something is fishy here.  Are you sure
that it restrains people from writing letters - that would be a real first,
and it would, in my opinion, banish KFYI from any thinking person's mind as
a radio station one would wish to listen to, for they would, by such an
action, be denying that anyone BUT THEM has the right to free speech.  And
after listening to Barry Young, Bob Mohann et. al. talk all about how
precious that first amendment right is, one would have to hang a big sign on
the front of the building that said, "HYPOCRITES!!!"
James>>>

Message: 52006
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Answer!
Subject: KFYI
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 10:19:10

Yes, it admonishes the named persons and organizations not to write letters,
picket, or call for a boycott. It was a *temporary* restraining order, but I
think it should have been dismissed out-of-hand. If it gets made permanent,
then either Weber was able to afford a much better attorney, or the judge is
a severe mental case.
 
Rev. Beau

Message: 52007
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: War!
Subject: KFYI
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 12:50:34

   According to the *Republic* article, the order was issued by Judge Cecil
Patterson of Maricopa County Superior Court.
 
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 52008
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: War!
Subject: KFYI
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 13:25:34

   Don't miss the editorial on page C2 of the Sunday *Republic*.  Pat Murphy
wrote an editorial on this KFYI debacle, and he relates a conversation he
had with an excited Fred Weber over a column Bud Wilkinson wrote.  Basicly,
Wilkinson suggested, without specifying any station, that one way to
influence a station is to not write them in your Arbitron book if you are
being surveyed.  Mr. Weber was very upset with this suggestion, according to
Murphy, and demanded a retraction, claiming that that would cost him
"millions."  Murphy declined to do that, and Weber hung up with the old
you'll-hear-from-my-lawyer line.  I'd *love* to see Weber TRY to sue the
*Republic*.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 52009
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 16:46:29

It would really be a battle of titanic idiots.

Message: 52010
Author: $ Carol Graham
Category: Answer!
Subject: rod/jt/donate
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 00:40:46

 
Donate the hardware to me.
 
I'll store it for you till you find a buyer.
 
Carol->

Message: 52011
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Alan/David
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 00:51:11

Finally a bigger idiot than Pat Murphy!

Message: 52012
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Carol
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 01:31:18

Perhaps we could work something out where you could use the equipment until
it's sold, but you would make the effort to sell it.

Message: 52013
Author: $ Mike Howerton
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike Stackpole
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 02:13:08

I believe he is a software author for Interplay software.
 

Message: 52014
Author: Apro Poet
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Reality Club
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 18:14:17

  Another serious argument against machinate evolution is 
that they contain no DNA or RNA and tend not to be made of
carbon-nitrogen compounds in water.  But beehives, snail
shells, and insect exoskeletons lack DNA and RNA as well.
Machines - like beehives and exoskeletons - evolve retaining
their connections to our autopoietic selves.  Autopoiesis 
and evolution are not determined by composition, but by
function and composition.  The debate over what is and what
isn't capable of evolution takes on new fascination as a 
close study of waste transformations and an atmosphere 
steeped in biogenic (including anthropogenic) chemicals
reveals that no clear line can be drawn between organisms 
and their environment.  If life is defined as autopoietic 
reproducing entities based on reduced carbon compounds, then
at first glance machines can never be alive since they are 
not based on carbon.  Yet what is meant by "based"?  Surely
any invention of human beings is ultimately based on a 
variety of processes including that of DNA replication, no
matter the separation in space or time of that replication
from that invention.
  Civilization as we know it can no longer survive without
machines.  It seems likely that humans will survive to 
govern the transition from an organic to a technobic 
biosphere.  Just as termites making mounds from their feces

Message: 52015
Author: Apro Poet
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Reality Club
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 18:20:58

outgrew their ancestral wood-eating roaches that did not 
fashion homes from excrement, apparently human beings in
association with machines have a great selective advantage
over those alienated from machines.  Material processing of 
the external environment matters in evolution.  New elements
and chemical compounds are brought into the process of life.
Evidence of the selective advantage of people with machines
follows from observations of the rates at which 
"underdeveloped" countries are trying to catch up with
"developed" nations.  One imagines an even greater selection
advantage to those humans who totally reuse their waste, 
both cultural excretion such as pollution and organic wastes
such as sewage.

Message: 52016
Author: Darren Erickson
Category: War!
Subject: kfyi
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 19:38:07

I don't see how anybody could restrain a person from writing a letter.  Nor
do I see how KFYI could object to a private party writing a business, even
if it is one of their sponsors.  
'nuff said,
-----Darren

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Message: 1320
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 10:20:33

I'm going to be in your neighborhood this afternoon. A friend and I are
going to walk through the 'open houses' in the area.
 
Rev. Beau

Message: 1321
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/last
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 11:03:14

Chainsaws? Fire torches? Watermelons? Sounds like one hell of an interesting
dinner. Can I drop in afterwards to see whats going on? Ta ta =*--ANN--*=
P.S. You aren't starting another story without me are you? These things
sound like my kind of story - especially the chainsaw bit. Ta ta =*--ANN--*=

Message: 1322
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Chainsaws?
Date: 05/01/88  Time: 22:00:28

I don't do chainsaws. I like my fingers where they are, thank you very much.
 
Rev. Beau

Message: 1323
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Question?
Subject: Last
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 00:52:45

Where are your fingers?  And WHY do you like them where they are?  

Message: 1324
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau Dog
Date: 05/02/88  Time: 11:25:05

It's not your fingers that Rod was thinking about cutting off! Hahaha
=*--ANN--*=

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 1:        I juggle clients.