Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - June 19, 1991

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 75805
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: In search of
Subject: Abusive Bill
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 05:25:21

 I didn't mean to neglect the abusive fathers, Bill, although a lot of the
tolet training is left to mom and much of that abuse comes from her.
 As to the classes we could drop to make room for something as worthwhile as
practical lessons in living,how about some of the "skating" classes that the
kids who don't care to study are offered just so they can "skate"through to
a high school "education"? You know, like basket weaving 1 & 2 or some other
totally silly stuff? There's more fluff in H.S. cirriculums these days than
you can shake a stick at, and they are all costing us dearly, in a lot more
than money. I personally know of at least one functional illiterate who is
walking around with a high school diploma. Why? Because he played a pretty
good game of football! He never did anythin with his ability, (probably
wasn't all THAT good), never learned anything else, and is now married with
a couple of kids he has no way of supporting, since he has a bad knee that
won't let him do any physical work, and he can't read or write and has no
ambition or desire to learn. This, too, is a product of our "education"
system. (And the good Dr. Spock, by the way)

Message: 75806
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie! Annie! Annie!
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 05:33:51

 There you go again! Coming up with scenarios that nobody else ever
suggested or even alluded to!
 Nobody, least of all me, ever thought for a minute of depriving parents of
the joys or thrills of parenthood by instituionalizing all the children!
That would be a horrible plan!
 What sorely needs to be done in order to break this vicious cycle of abuse
is to educate people in the art of parenting BEFORE they become parents.
Parenting in today's society is hard enough as it is, without going into it
totally blind to and unprepared for the responsibilities that are demanded.
 So many parents today can't teach their kids this responsibility. Why?
Because they never learned in themselves. Child abuse is not something
unique to the present generation. Most abusers learned the pattern of abuse
from their parents, who learned it from their parents, etc. Something has to
be done to break this cycle, and if anyone can come up with something better
than education, let's hear it, by all means! And let's not bring Hitler into
the conversation. That's comparing apples and onions.

Message: 75807
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: caller ID
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 05:39:01

 So the number is already there, and all it takes is the technology to
retrieve it?
 That should be a fairly simple thing for some of our more electronically
technical minds to develop. How about some of the local cable pirate box
makers?
 How about some of our own electronic geniuses? Mike Carter? Anyone? If it's
not too complicated, somebody could make some money with a bunch of those
things.

Message: 75808
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger on blame
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 06:46:20

Yeah! Lets blame the Republicans!! Makes sense.
 
You are, of course, right about the media reporting on child abuse more now.
They are doing this with a lot of things, giving us the impression that
things are worse than ever in many cases, when they are not.
                  *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75809
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul Carelli
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 06:47:41

Welcome (back) Paul. Theres another Paul on this BBS too. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75810
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley, Pauley, Paul
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 06:59:23

We already have "Education in the art of parenting". Any parent or both can
attend classes on child raising. They might not be on every street cornor,
but if you look in the paper, you can find them - the schools - some private
and some public. They even had them way back when I was having babies.
 
You can come back now and say I got off the subject, but reality is, you
suggested people should not be allowed to have children until they are
trained. You backed off a little, but that is still the underlying theme of
your post. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75811
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod on tooth
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:01:27

Welcome back to the world of the living. Did you have the tooth pulled?
Sounded like a very bad infection. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 75812
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann on Media
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:41:47

We are a silly people. The media even tries to make up things to worry about
like the Scientologists that were on the cover of Time magazine a few weeks
ago. (You can see my copy , Beau)

Message: 75813
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Bulletins
Subject: Welcome Paul C.!
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:52:37

A prodigal returns!  Welcome back, Paul C.  
 
Now, see if you can whack some sense into the other Paul.  If for no other
reason than to save the honor of your name.

Message: 75814
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul Fudges!
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:53:02

> As to the classes we could drop to make room for something as
> worthwhile as practical lessons in living,how about some of the
> "skating" classes that the kids who don't care to study are
> offered just so they can "skate"through to a high school
> "education"? You know, like basket weaving 1 & 2 or some other
> totally silly stuff?
 
Come on, Paul.  You're skating on the assumption that there are classes like
basket weaving in our curricula.  If you're knowledgeable enough to say
something should be cut, you must know enough to tell us what.  So, what
should be cut?  Sex ed?  The American enterprise course the legislature
foisted on us a few years back?  Physical ed (Is there nothing to be learned
from sports and athletics)?  Drivers' ed?  What, Paul.

Message: 75815
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Politics
Subject: More Fudge
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:53:23

> Nobody, least of all me, ever thought for a minute of depriving
> parents of the joys or thrills of parenthood by
> instituionalizing all the children! That would be a horrible
> plan!
 
So, to return to my earlier question, Paul:  What is the penalty for failing
the class?  How do you suggest we go about making these parenting classes do
what they're supposed to and reach the people they need to reach?
 
Or would you prefer simply not to do the hard thinking that difficult
choices demand?

Message: 75816
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 09:33:48

I'm glad you have no fear of death, but you have a responsibility to the
large family you've chosen to create.  Refusing to handle a medical problem
immediately is NOT the same as putting off fixing a lock for a couple
days because the medical problem can deteriorate rapidly and cause other
medical problems while the lock's condition wouldn't change because it's
an inanimate object.
 
Thanks for sharing this experience with us, but don't expect anyone to be
impressed with the way you handled it.

Message: 75817
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 10:34:35

"Physical Education" should certainly be de-emphasized and removed as a
mandatory requirement.  Sports in general have little to do with the
educational process and I think they should be handled by groups like
Pop-Warner rather than tax-supported schools.
 
You can always come up with some secondary benefits of ANY extracurricular
activity that could be called "educational", but that doesn't mean everyone
should have to pay for them all.  I learned something about teamwork from
the rock band I was in during high school, but I didn't expect the school to
provide us with all the facilities we needed and force other students to
attend pep-rallies supporting US!

Message: 75818
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Nightline
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 11:00:00

  Did anyone else see Nightline last night? I caught part of it and saw
Boris Yeltsin taking some hard questions from Ted Koppel on the future of
the Russian republic and the Soviet Union. I was impressed with Yeltsin's
attitude and his ability to deal with real questions.
  He represents a total break from 70 years of socialism, and his own words,
wants to bring Russia back into the civilized world.
  He was opposed by the soviet media and existing bureaucracy, yet won the
Presidency by a vote of the people. Unless he turns out to be a fraud, a la
most western politicians, Russians could finally get the chance to earn the
good life they were falsely promised after the revolution. They would do
well to avoid following our example so closely as to create a government
which is foremost a tool for looting everyone for the benefit of whoever
gains favor, but that's probably too much to hope for.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 75819
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: News Today
Subject: Caller ID
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 12:16:41

  >> The Caller-ID option sounds great.

Not exactly.  The Caller ID option is great AS LONG AS the caller has the
option of blocking out his number when he makes the call.

Think about it.  Do you want EVERYBODY you call to automatically have a
record of your number?  Including businesses who will use it to pester and
deluge you with junk calls, or sell it to other businesses?  (The chief use
of Caller ID in terms of dollars will be those who make a profit out of it
in this way.)  Do you want everybody you call to see your number EVEN THOUGH
you may have taken the trouble to get an unlisted number to protect your own
privacy?

Caller ID is a serious issue that is being or has been fought in several
states.  It represents a major change in the way a telephone network
operates with respect to the balance of power (information is power) between
the caller and the recipient.  Before Caller ID, every caller using his own
phone could assume anonymity.  Now that is no longer true.  It is
potentially a serious threat to the privacy of the caller, unless the
caller is also provided with the option of blocking his number on making the
call.  We need some awareness of this issue around here.

Message: 75820
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Caller ID
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 12:28:35

        Those who have a blocking service will find I will not answer the
phone.  If you wish to call me, I had better know who you are.  As for the
BBS, it will not do a carrier detect till it gets a caller ID number.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 75821
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Question?
Subject: last
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:48:03

Are you telling me your equipment can see the caller ID now, Cliff?

(Nah, that doesn't make sense.  Otherwise you'd know who was Jeff Beck and
who wasn't, instead of having to guess all the time...)

Message: 75822
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod (1/3)
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:49:21

Thanks for telling us about your "vacation".  Your experience was a truly
symbolic one, and there are important lessons to be learned from it.

When somebody has a disorder, whether it lies in the body or in the mind,
the disorder often causes pain.  The pain is a symptom of the disorder, but
it's not the disorder itself.  Nevertheless, it's usually the pain that
presents the most immediate and noticeable indication to the sufferer.

Pain exists for a reason.  It's there to tell us that there's something
wrong, that we ought to find out what it is that's wrong and go fix it,
otherwise we may end up in worse shape, or even dead.  Seeking the cause and
fixing it is the right course of action.  But for the sufferer, the pain IS
the problem, and all too often the temptation is simply to block the pain
itself, rather than dealing with the root cause.

Many drugs exist to block pain, and they have a legitimate use when nothing
can profitably be done to stop the cause of the pain.  But at other times,
drugs do nothing but mask symptoms, allowing the underlying disorder to rage
on unchecked.

Message: 75823
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod (2/3)
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:50:13

Sometimes the disorder is not in the body but in the mind.  These disorders
too can have their cure -- but not unless they are examined.  All too often
people believe that psychic pain has no cause, that it is just "there".  Yet
their natural instincts tell them to medicate themselves.

So they do -- with drugs, with large amounts of alcohol, and with nature's
own medication: the blocking of their own awareness.  One can hardly blame
them for this, since other people encourage them to do it.  Drugs are
products that make money for people.  Much of the medical establishment
actually encourages such behavior.  Many people who are troubled enough to
seek psychiatric help are sent away with inappropriate drugs that mask the
symptoms of their problems, instead of investigating the problems
themselves.

This is why it's futile to wage a "war on drugs" -- as if "drugs" themselves
were the problem, when for so many people their use of drugs is only the
symptom of another problem that nobody wants to tackle.

Message: 75824
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod (3/3)
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:51:12

  RW> I knew I was coming out of shock when the pain started returning.

This was a perfect reminder of the experience of Douglas Bader, a British
flier who lost both his legs in an airplane crash around 1932.  Bader
recalled that after the accident and having both his legs amputated he was
lying in a hospital bed drifting away nicely, feeling nothing at all.
Vaguely he heard somebody outside his room talking loudly.  Then he heard a
nurses's voice saying "Shhh!  Don't make so much noise.  There's a young man
dying in there."

He lay there and thought about it, until the nurse's words sank in.  "Does
she mean me?" he asked himself.  "Me dying?  I'm not dying!"

And from that moment on, the pain came back in his legs.  Making the
decision not to die, but to fight instead, was extremely painful.

Bader recovered.  He went on to practice walking on artificial legs.  When
they told him he would never walk again without crutches, he retorted that
he would never walk *with* crutches.  He threw his crutches away immediately
and learned to walk on the legs alone.  He went on to drive a car, and
ultimately to fly an airplane again.  He flew Spitfires in WWII, was shot
down, then imprisoned as a POW.  The Germans put him in Colditz because he
kept trying to escape, in spite of being legless.  Quite a remarkable man.

Message: 75825
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod...
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 14:23:37

        Hey, Good posts there Rod, you explained your adventure (in pain)
rather well.   I enjoyed it....    Grin!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 75826
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Rog{r
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:18:29

Re:  On the other hand, we could blame the Republicans since they have held
the Presidential office for over ten years

It's not the Republicans or the Fundamentalists.  I know what the cause is. 
Once I explain the cause, you will all understand, and if we all join
together we can eradicate the cause of "Child Abuse!"

An in depth survey has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the cause is
"mashed potatoes!"  In 97.3% of the child abuse cases examined, it was
determined that "mashed potatoes" were eaten by the abuser within a 24 hour
period prior to the abuse.  In case after case it was discovered that people
who were repeat "child abusers", consumed "mashed potatoes" on a regular
basis.  The data is overwhelming.

The only correct course of action is to abolish mash potatoes from our diet.
 Who will join me in this worthwhile crusade?? 

Message: 75827
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Answer!
Subject: Gordon
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:28:39

Re:  Think about it.  Do you want EVERYBODY you call to automatically have a
record of your number?

I have nothing to hide.  My number is right there in the phone book.  I
intend to have "Caller ID" as soon as it is available here.  It is already
available in other places.  There is already a ton of various devices
available to decode the called ID signal.

And "no" it is not already here for those who know how to decode it.

Message: 75828
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Abuse Crusade
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:43:10

Quite frankly, I always thought it was Lima Beans that caused abuse. (Lima
Beans are a vegetable I would gladly get rid of)

Message: 75829
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: FELIX/ABUSE
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:53:20

  Ah, but it is also documented that 98.1 percent of the VICTIMS of child
abuse had consumed cow's milk within 24 hours of being abused. Data strongly
suggests that milk must trigger some reaction in those around the user
making them want to attack. Since children are much easier to attack, and
tend to drink more milk, they suffer the bulk of the dairy related abuse.
   See You Later,
     Dean (covering for Rod in the anti-milk crusade until he recovers) H.

Message: 75830
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thanks
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 17:47:48

Thanks for the various comments on my posts.  Yes Ann, I had that baby
yanked out at 1 P.M. today.  It took less than five minutes.  I never liked
that particular tooth as it was wedged inbetween two others.  I like space
between my teeth as I find it easier to relax.  When my mouth is at ease
then my brain has less trouble following suit.

Cliff, I'm glad you enjoyed it too.  It sure added a bit more depth to my
life and I am always appreciative of depth.

Michael, I realize what you have said and I feel the same way.  I just
didn't realize that the problem would be that severe.  I was going to have
it taken care of on the coming Monday.  My dentist has a family and I'm sure
he sees enough tooth ache related events during his normal working period. 
Dentists have a high rate of suicides because of seeing so much pain. 
Whenever I see him I make sure I smile and laugh as much as possible.  I
become like a robot in his chair and only allow emotion to escape through
the wiggling of my toes.  

Gordon, excellent posts.  I remember hearing about Bader and the loss of his
legs and how he learned to fly his Spitfire again.

I too realized that to die on my family at this particular moment was not
correct.  And it was easy to push back the 'cloud' and rejoin the living. 
The only hard part was leaving the peaceful realm of energy.

It is obvious that I could go out on the street today and die in a traffic
acccident but that would be different.  I do have a healthy fear of driving
and whenever I enter an expressway I take a deep breath.  Thank you for the
posts.

Message: 75832
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul "no lawyer"
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 17:50:41

Of course you aren't a lawyer, you're a clown.  (SHOOTING MSG.)

Message: 75833
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Potty training
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 18:01:15

I have eight children and feel that I am qualified to comment on this
subject.

Pick a place for the potty and let the child know where it is.  Keep the
diapers off the child during the day.  Explain to the child what the potty
is for.  Take the child into the bathroom and show them the correct
procedure.

Now, when the child messes on the carpet or tile floor then (let's assume it
was #2) gently take the child and with your hand on the back of his head
(they have small heads and very weak muscles during this period) rub it in
the bowel movement until it goes from ear to ear.

Then the next procedure is quite obvious.  Set the child on the potty.  

This procedure never takes more than a week unless you have a real stubborn
kid.

I can't take credit for this cure as I read it in Dr. Spocks book on child
rearing.

The only problems that I have observed is the child, even when full grown
will only use an infant's potty chair.  But the cure for this is to sign
them up for the military branch of your preference.      -Rod

Message: 75834
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bye animals
Date: 06/19/91  Time: 18:04:27

Okay, I got this straight from my crystal ball.  The earth is about to shift
magnetic poles again.  Soon we will be like those mound builders and Stone
Hedge people, among others.

A lot of interesting events are taking place in and around this planet at
this very moment.  Remember to set your clocks back one hour when it occurs.