Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - June 10, 1991

Drugs... right or wrong?  

[A] I am for the legalization of marijuana
[B] I am against legalization of marijuana
[C] I am undecided

Poll results to date:
[A] 17   [B] 12   [C] 1

NOTE: nearly 57% Yes, nearly 40%, No, and almost 3% undecided, BY ROD

Main Menu command:P

*=* Post Office entered *=*

Mail from Steve Albany
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 13:11:16

[A]bort, [N]ew only, [R]ead or [S]kip:Read

        I don't have your number, silly.. And I wouldn't suggest leaving it
on here (since my account is NON-$Tatus).. My number howevere is 277-xxxx..
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:I don't think anyone would log on as Steve Albany except for you.
 2:
 3:My number is 277-xxxx.
 4:
 5:                                Rod
 6:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...

As for the message to which you replied...
[A]bort, [C]ontinue or [Z]ap:Zap

Post Office command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

Press [A] to abort

Message: 4814
Author: $ Chris Neal
Category: HOT-SEX !
Subject: Melissa
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 20:48:12

So, just out of curiosity, how old is your boyfriend, assuming that you have
one?  If not, how old would he have to be?    I founf it interesting that
you know what you want.  My girlfriend just turned 22 on the 31st of May,
graduated from NAU on the 10th of May, and doesn't have a clue on: Where she
wants to live, what kind of job she wants.
 
-Chris

Message: 4815
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Kissing What?
Subject: Roger Endangers!
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 08:07:38

] I admit I drove all the way home.
 
Where's Ruben Ortega or Rick Romley when you really need them?
 
(Hey, Ruben!  Don't let the door hitcha on the way out!)

Message: 4816
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Pot Music
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 08:15:17

         I once tried playing music while under the influence of pot ---
I had the strangest feeling in my fingers. 

Message: 4817
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Shit-Chat!
Subject: Roger you bad boy...
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 10:05:32

... getting high from playing with your organ. Why don't you get some
marijuana?? You don't want to wear your organ out do you?
                     *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 4818
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Shit-Chat!
Subject: Ann/ My Organ
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 13:10:36

}iActually, I didn't like marijuana when I tried it so I stopped. I much 
prefer alchohol for relaxing. In fact, I get so wired when I play I have to
calm down so I don't make mistakes. Blood pressure medicine affects this.
When I was taking Catapres, it made me feel nervous, so my playing suffered.
Now, I am on Tenormin, a beta-blocker which slows me down (e.g, my heart
rate is in the 50's) 
 
Hey, ain't this exciting talk for Cosmos sig ? Probably belongs in the Old
Farts Sig --- but I'd rather pretend I am talking sexy here.

Message: 4819
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer !
Subject: Chris
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 18:32:57

32.

Message: 4820
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Ortega
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 23:23:46

I can't believe it.  The City Manager actually convinced Ortega to take back
his resignation.  I think that it should have been accepted, and then the
stupid new regulations should have been rescinded.  Instead, we're at status
quo ante.

X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:EQ

You chose Quickie

Subject:Roger/fingers

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Did it feel like your fingers were going to close us and never again open?
 2:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 4821

X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board entered *=*

Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:$C

Press [A] to abort

Message: 1639
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Filmography
Subject: _Citizen Kane_
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 14:40:43

I hope everyone who wanted to go remembers the GT tonight.  Meet at Cine
Capri at 6:45.  I have about 6 friends that are showing up also so it should
be quite a lot of people!

Message: 1640
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Filmography
Subject: tonight
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 15:52:18

Cine Capri has switched the film's showing time to 7:30, instead of 7:10. 
I'll be there.

Message: 1641
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: CITIZEN KANE
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 22:54:40

     I would have gone if not for the fact six of Melissa's friends were
going to be there.  I met one of her friends many years ago and that was one
too many.

Message: 1642
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: C-Kane
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 23:04:01

        After the Rocket GT with all those strange people, I tend to shy
away from other such GT's.  However, this is not the reason Sandy and I did
not go.  Not feeling so great today, we fell asleep......

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- snoozing 

Message: 1643
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Junk Culture
Subject: last
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 03:12:58

What sort of strange people were at the rocket GT?  I didn't notice anything
strange about the people at the GT last evening.  Did it ever occur to you
that lots of people think that BBSers are strange?

The water was kind of warm, though.

Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* End of the Universe Bulletin Board entered *=*

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

Press [A] to abort

Message: 1789
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 15:59:02

Paul is right...and you ain't even cute.

Message: 1790
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Cliff & Paul
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 10:10:12

Rod is right and you're both wrong! All of you are cute though.
                       *>>> ANN O. <<<*
 
Hmmmm... Rod always seems to be right! Why is that?

Message: 1791
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Shut Up Already!
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 20:43:28

'cuz you and Rod both are wrong but cute isn't the answer.

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:Paul/whesmoke

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:he nation would be taking a step
19:backwards if this were to happen.
20:(1 of 2)
21:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 1792

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:Paul

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:ng Columbus
 9:discovered America.
10:                                        Rod
11:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 1793

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Late Night Bulletin Board entered *=*

Late Night Bulletin Board command:$C

Press [A] to abort

Message: 2041
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Question?
Subject: Apro ?
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 23:25:28

You forget to check this SIG?  Ever tried 'JN' at a command prompt?

Late Night Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Public Bulletin Board entered *=*

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Press [A] to abort

Message: 75644
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 12:09:53

From A People's History of The Unied States, by Howard Zinn:

Robber Barons and Rebels

In the year 1877, the signals were given for the rest of the
century: the black would be put back; the strikes of white
workers would not be tolerated; the industrial and political
elites of North and South would take hold of the country and
organize the greatest march of economic growth in human 
history.  They would do it with the aid of, and at the 
expense of, black labor, white labor, Chinese labor, 
European immigrant labor, female labor, rewarding them
differently by race, sex, national origin, and social class,
in such a way as to create separate levels of oppression --
a skillful terracing to stabilize the pyramid of wealth.
  Between the Civil War and 1900, steam and electricity
replaced human muscle, iron replaced wood, and steel 
replaced iron (before the Bessemer process, iron was 
hardened into steel at the rate of 3 to 5 tons a day; now 
the same amount could be processed in 15 minutes).  Machines
could now drive steel tools.  Oil could lubricate machines
and light homes, streets, factories.  People and goods could
move by railroad, propelled by steam along steel rails; by
1900 there were 193,000 miles of railroad.  The telephone,

Message: 75645
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 12:21:28

the typewriter, and the adding machine speeded up the work
of business.
  Machines changed farming.  Before the Civil War it took 61
hours of labor to produce an acre of wheat.  By 1900, it 
took 3 hours, 19 minutes.  Manufactured ice enabled the 
transport of food over long distances, and the industry of
meatpacking was born.
  Steam drove textile mill spindles; it drove sewing
machines.  It came from coal.  Pneumatic drills now drilled
deeper into the earth for coal.  In 1860, 14 million tons of
coal were mined; by 1884 it was 100 million tons.  More coal
meant more steel, because coal furnaces converted iron into
steel; by 1880 a million tons of steel were being produced;
by 1910, 25 million tons.  By now electricity was beginning
to replace steam.  Electrical wires needed copper, of which
30,000 tons were produced in 1880; 500,000 tons by 1910.
  To accomplish all this required ingenius inventors of new
processes and new machines, clever organizers and 
administrators of the new corporations, a country rich with
land and minerals, and a huge supply of human beings to do 
the back-breaking, unhealthful, and dangerous work.
Immigrants would come from Europe and China, to make the new
labor force.  Farmers unable to buy the new machinery or pay
the new railroad rates would move to the cities.  Between

Message: 75646
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 12:31:27

1860 and 1914, New York grew from 850,000 to 4 million,
Chicago from 110,000 to 2 million, Philadelphia from 650,000
to 1-1/2 million.
  In some cases the inventor himself became the organizer of
businesses -- like Thomas Edison, inventor of electrical
devices.  In other cases, the businessman compiled other
people's inventions, like Gustavus Swift, a Chicago butcher
who put together the ice-cooled railway car with the 
ice-cooled warehouse to make the first national meatpacking
company in 1885.  James Duke used a new cigarette-rolling
machine that could roll, paste, and cut tubes of tobacco 
into 100,000 cigarettes a day; in 1890 he combined the four
biggest cigarette producers to form the American Tobacco
Company.
  While some multimillionaires started in poverty, most did
not.  A study of the origins of 303 textile, railroad, and
steel executives of the 1870s showed that 90 percent came
from middle- or upper-class families.  The Horatio Alger
stories of "rags to riches" were true for a few men, but 
mostly a myth, and a useful myth for control.
  Most of the fortune building was done legally, with the
collaboration of the government and the courts.  Sometimes
the collaboration had to be paid for.  Thomas Edison 
promised New Jersey politicians $1,000 each in return for

Message: 75647
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 12:33:53

favorable legislation.  Daniel Drew and Jay Gould spent $1
million to bribe the New York legislature to legalize their
issue or $8 million in "watered stock" (stock not 
representing real value) on the Erie Railroad.

(to be continued)

Message: 75648
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 14:06:13

Re:  What, are we being graded by some cosmic giant who wants what if made
to run obstacle courses?

That's some concept you have of God.  It certainly differs from mine.

Message: 75649
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/opinion
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 16:54:00

  You insinuate that my positions on drugs are just picked out of
the air to suit my prejudices. I have seen studies on the relative toxicity
and other detrimental effects of various drugs. Alcohol has the worst long
term toxicity rating avialable for drugs. Marijuana is not even a contender.
This data would not be skewed by the relative number of users for each drug,
as that variable is taken into account in arriving at relative toxicity.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.
p.s.(since, to your knowledge, there have never been any such studies, does
that mean you looked for some and failed to find any, or that nobody ever
tied you down and forced you to look at some? This is not a threat, just a
question.)

Message: 75650
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Marijuana fiasco
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 21:48:42

After trying it myself I can say that it does inhibit your depth and
time perception considerably. In so much as that I even rode a
motorcycle while experiencing its effects, I was fortunate to make it
home in one piece. My balance was not affected nor was my hearing or
memory. My reaction time I can't say either way because I wasn't forced
into an emergency stop situation. I do know that I was slowing down
far before I should have been and that I would stop 10-12 feet before
the white line at the lights.  I can see how this drug could get
people into trouble, because of its effects, forgoing responsibilities
and short-changing the future could easily be the bad side-effects.
Getting high would take precedence over homework, writing a resume,
looking for a job for one day, spending time being high instead of
working. I've seen it with some of the people I knew back then. 
In Australia I remember watching a series a few months before we left for
the U.S. The series was produced in Britain. It was about alcohol and
marijuana and the driver. I think it was Eton school or one of those
higher profile educational facilities that conducted the test. They
took 4 guys (volunteers..willing no less) and as they were sober and
"down to earth" they had them drive around a closed track in a dual-
steering motor vehicle. The test involved one participant and two
testers. One sat in the rear of the vehicle and activated a device that
was mounted on the hood of the car. A red light. The driver was told to
drive at a constant speed. (Monitored and recorded).
(cont)

Message: 75651
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: marijuana
Date: 06/09/91  Time: 21:59:17

At different spots along the course, the red light was triggered and the
driver was instructed to brake to a normal stop.
On the rear of the vehicle were two pneumatic paint guns. One colored
red, the other green. The red paint gun was fired when the man in the rear
activate{ the{red light. The{green gun was fired when the driver pressed in
the brake pedal. The paint was shot at the ground and the distance
between them was measured. Each of the four volunteers were tested on each
of the four drugs over four days time. I have seen this documentary since
I left but I don't remember the full results. If one thing stuck in my
mind it's the reaction time with 4 martinis in this one guy. WOW. Keep
me out of his way. The marijuana affected each of them differently , one
guy spun the car out, that I do remember. 
It'd be well worth doing such a test and documenting it here..as I feel that
the proponents for legalization of POT don't realize something;
Accidents and deaths caused by this drug wont necessarily be recorded as
being caused by the drug...much like Liberace and Elvis's deaths...
Also, blood tests arent normally conducted unless foul play is suspected,
and with alcohol, it's pretty obvious just by the smell alone. Pot leaves
traces in the blood, but is very hard to detect otherwise. No one can
honestly say "There has been not one death from the use of marijuana.."
Because on April 22nd, 1980, a man was shot not 30 feet from me over a
marijuana ciagrette. It was my 5th day in America.

Message: 75652
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/question
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 06:02:33

Did I look for some studies dealing with relative toxicities and fail to
find any, or did nobody ever tie me down and force me to look at some?
 WEll Dean, I guess the most honest answer would fall somewhere in the
middle of those two extremes. I do read whatever comes before me on subjects
such as this, but don't really go out of my way to research such things. I
do read the newspaper (such as it is), and several periodicals which would
be likely to publish such findings if such existed. I don't do any personal
deep research into the topic, since I am affected by neither marijuana or
alcohol personally. So, with that qualification, no such research exists to
the best of my knowledge. Hope that answers your question.
 Since I believe that this conversation originated with a comment on the
events surrounding former judge Marquardt, my comments were more side issues
to the main issue, that being that he did violate the laws he was sworn to
uphold, and in doing so violated the public trust and his oath of office,
and in doing so abrogated his right to hold that office. Which law he
violated, or the relative justice of that particular law, are not really the
issue. Do you have a problem with that?

Message: 75653
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 17:40:48

  The first transcontinental railroad was built with blood,
sweat, politics and thievery, out of the meeting of the 
Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroads.  The Central
Pacific started on the West Coast going east; it spent 
$200,000 in Washington on bribes to get 9 million acres of
free land and $24 million in bonds, and paid $79 million, an
overpayment of $36 million, to a construction company which
really was its own.  The construction was done by three
thousand Irish and ten thousand Chinese, over a period of 
four years, working for one or two dollars a day.
  The Union Pacific started in Nebraska going west.  It had
been given 12 million acres of free land and $27 million in
government bonds.  It created the Credit Mobilier company
and gave them $94 million for construction when the actual
cost was $44 million.  Shares were sold cheaply to 
Congressmen to prevent investigation.  This was at the
suggestion of Massachusetts Congressman Oakes Ames, a shovel
manufacturer and director of Credit Mobilier, who said, 
"There is no difficulty in getting men to look after their 
own property."  The Union Pacific used twenty thousand 
workers -- war veterans and Irish immigrants, who laid 5 
miles of track a day and died by the hundreds in the heat,
the cold, and the battles with Indians opposing the invasion
of their territory.

Message: 75654
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 17:50:53

  Both railroads used longer, twisting routes to get 
subsidies from towns they went through.  In 1869, amid music
and speeches, the two crooked lines met in Utah.
  The wild fraud on the railroads led to more control of
railroad finances by bankers, who wanted more stability --
profit by law rather than by theft.  By the 1890s, most of 
the country's railway mileage was concentrated in six huge
systems.  Four of these were completely or partially 
controlled by the House of Morgan, and two others by the
bankers Kuhn, Loeb, and Company.
  J. P. Morgan had started before the war, as the son of a
banker who began selling stocks for the railroads for good
commissions.  During the Civil War he bought five thousand
rifles for $3.50 each from an army arsenal, and sold them to
a general in the field for $22 each.  The rifles were 
defective and would shoot off the thumbs of the soldiers
using them.  A congressional committee noted this in the 
small print of an obscure report, but a federal judge upheld
the deal as the fulfillment of a valid legal contract.
  Morgan had escaped military service in the Civil War by
paying $300 to a substitute.  So did John D. Rockefeller,
Andrew Carnegie, Phillip Armour, Jay Gould, and James
Mellon.  Mellon's father had written to him that "a man may
be a patriot without risking his own life or sacrificing his

Message: 75655
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 17:51:43

health.  There are plenty of lives less valuable."

Message: 75656
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: Pay raise?
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 20:53:44

In july the City employees will receive a meager 3.6% pay increase.
This year, so far, my insurance has gone up 20% between my house and
my truck, I paid more taxes and my medical insurance went up 40%.
There's some pencil necked geek down at an office called the
Metropolitan Phoenix consumer price index who determines how much
the cost of living goes up each year. This bird brain metes out single
and often 0 digit increases while the horde of legislature-backed
insurance companies make it a crime not to pay their profit increases.
Their increases are *never* below 10%. Between them, the Government
and the IRS, I'm being bled to death. Yet we have these self righteous
death merchants begging for tax dollars to slaughter unborn babies.
Wonderful.
Heaven forbid I slide over the speed limit some day. There's bound to
be a cash-register charlie behind some bushes at an insurance company
parking lot waving his shiny radar gun at me. Ready to explode from behind
those bushes on his Kawasaki to deliver his financial death penalty to me.
Gads, not that I'd want to flush more liquid platinum through my
fuel-injected OPEC partner anyway. The price of gas changes each time I
fill it and I'd swear it eeks a little laugh at me when I pay.
Yeah..3.6%, I'll take it and buy *me* a sharp stick to poke in THEIR eyes
when they complain about the lousy state of the economy. But the IRS
will want to borrow that sharp stick around April, so what's the use?
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!
Ooops. Look out, they just banned private ownership of firearms..........

Message: 75657
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: In search of
Subject: Little
Date: 06/10/91  Time: 23:28:20

        I saw his name in yesterdays [U]ser log....  He's lurking
around here somewhere....?

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-