X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 3874
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Up Yours
Subject: Everyone
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 02:42:25
Bill B.; You do see my point then. My problem through all of this is
the fact that you cannot justify bashing one person for his posts (mine)
and take a blind-eye to the *rest*. That's exactly what happened.
Miz Dee wanted some gratification after her dismal crash and burn in the
debates. Her only avenue it seems has been to try to play favorites
with Cliff and get him to come down on material that she pretends to
find objectionable.
I realize you don't pretend to be offended and as I have clearly stated
before it is not my wish to offend you by any means.
Your initial complaint on the board seemed to be her only avenue for an
"ally" so she took it. Only it's backfired big time.
Like a spiteful child, she's cut her nose off to spite her face.
Myself, I really don't care either way. It's either something like this
or Religious debates all over again.
Apollo is the melting pot for some truly good interaction. It's sad
that one person is shallow enough to get this to such a stage.
But that's O.k. I'm not pretending to be an Angel in any of this
but I think you understand my objections. I wasn't objecting to your
requests....just the selective way you attacked me only.
So now we have a situation where MIZ DEE (AKA the SEX POLICE) has started
a neo-nazi gestapo for anyone daring to utter uteris or belch backsides.
Message: 3875
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer !
Subject: Last
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 06:12:53
I don't give a damn what you say. I only want Cliff to be fair. I wish the
public board was not censored. However, I don't think any of you are
listening to me at this point. There have been numberous posts against me,
saying that I have done this or that (sex police, etc) and only a few posts
by me, which I thought were very clear and to the point.
As for Carter's personal attacks, I don't know why he goes on and on
defending himself. If he really thinks he is right, why does have to prove
it to everyone, uncluding himself, in so many messages and in such a way as
to put me down for everything from being a censor to a porn queen? (a bit
inconsistant, don't you think?)
And Cliff, my ex-boyfriend's mother was from Austrailia. I think I know a
joke when I see it. And from his last post, that started off saying he
wouldn't throw a brick, to the middle of the post that described what he
would put on this note...
The more he trys to convince me the more he convinces me I was right.
Message: 3876
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Dee...
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 11:37:56
Ha ha ha, I thought the note was funny.... But again, you do
NOT know MIKE Carter!
As for Mikes Insults on the Public board, I saw nothing wrong with
"Up Yours" but I did have a problem when Mike got personal with other more
elaborate sexual verbage. I would rather *NOT* see name calling get that
hateful. It may have been in jest by Mike, but to the person targeted for
those kinds of slams, it is anything but funny.
Words such as 'ass', 'Got Balls' (as Zak used it) should not be
offensive for most people when used in a funny or un-insulting way.
Rod's use of "Fornicate" was used in such a way the post was ment to insult.
I was insulted anyway... and that does COUNT!
Maybe all the users should read the ules once again for the
first time. It's one thing to disagree with another user, and another thing
to spend three-quarters of your counter post using colorful verbage calling
the user in opposition names. Mike does this wery well, and that is a
problem. However, Miz Dee got carried away attacking every thing said by
Mike as a sexual slam. This just went to far.
Continued on next post!
Message: 3877
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: the SYSOP Speaks
Subject: Bleep Words
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 12:00:23
Go back to posting on the PUBlic board and just be *REASONABLE*, as
you would expect an adult to be. If I should find the insult to be
not resonable, I will either ZAP the post, or edit out the language in
question. If I do this on the PUBlic board and you have a gripe about it.
Bring that gripe to this SIG or maybe even the $tatus SIG since ALL members
have that SIG in their profile for access. Do NOT do what ZAK does and
smear it all over the PUBlic board... You will loose you $tatus in an
instant! This is MY board and I will be fair with you, if you are fair with
me.
The PUBlic board has got to be a G rating.... Children do log in
from time to time... They don't join nowdays as Apollo does not play games
such as D & D. We seem to attract only adults, but even many adults will
not see the humor in what looks like hatefull attacks. I have had many
first time users leave me mail wondering about all the fighting, and then
they never log back in to read my reply. I do not like Mike Middleton's
ideas on banning guns or his view of the Bible, but I hardly want him to
leave the system. His posts are valued by me, and they show you a view
point that you may even learn something from....even if it hurts.
Be fair... don't grip to be spiteful! I will listen! And for God's
sake, if someone complains about your post, live up to it like an adult!
I make boanheaded errors, and I know it!
I have spoken! -Mighty SysOp
Message: 3878
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: $#!+
Subject: Mr. Carter
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 15:01:24
> You do see my point then. My problem through all of this is
> the fact that you cannot justify bashing one person for his
> posts (mine) and take a blind-eye to the *rest*.
I see your point exactly, Mike. And fully agree with it.
However, in my opinion, it has been your comments that have
been taken with a "blind-eye." Perhaps not this particular time
(Cliff says he hadn't been on the board and I believe him.), but
certainly in the past. No, I can't cite examples.
After the recent bashing Rod took I wasn't about to sit by
and let your public outburst go.
Where did Melissa post something, publicly, that you found
objectionable? She recanted what you said, and that was perhaps
faulty judgment, but other than that, what was there?
And I'm not so sure I've seen any examples of a so-called
"Monthly rage of insanity" from Melissa. She seemed to be
holding her own quite well.
Mike, I think you're being petty and trying to get back at
those of us who objected to what you posted. If there are any
"rages of insanity" here they are yours; and they're more daily
than monthly. That's disappointing because I generally find
Apollo to be a source of reasoned, adult discussion. Well,
occasionally at least.
Message: 3879
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Shit-Chat!
Subject: CLIFF/1 of 2
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 15:02:07
> Blame Miz Dee for the level of the 'Squeaky Clean' campaign. With
> out her, we would not have banned such things as "Up Yours" and
> other simple harmless phrases...
That's unfair, Cliff. Melissa only complained about something to
which she had a right to complain, and only after I did, too. To my
knowledge, her posts on the non-mos side of Apollo have always
been squeaky clean. You're placing blame on one who objected to the
transgressions of others rather than on those who transgressed in the
first place. To my way of thinking both Melissa and I, acting
separately (There's been no non-public correspondence between us on
this or any other matter.) were both only trying to uphold Apollo's
long-held standards.
> By the way Bill B., did my Dog story upset you? msg 66307
No. Your use of "$hit" was objectionable, but it's been done so
many times before I felt there was no use in complaining. Besides, I
felt it would do harm to the points I'm currently trying to make.
> This is silly... I will shut down the PUBlic board to all out side
> non-members if you guys don't get real.
I don't blame you for being frustrated, Cliff. All I ask is that
you continue to apply Apollo's ules fairly and with common sense.
(CONT'D)
Message: 3880
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Shit-Chat!
Subject: CLIFF/ 2 of 2
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 15:02:41
> If Zak does not remove his word 'Testicle' by morning, do you
> want me to remove his $tatus? Come on, egg me on...give me the
> challenge. Dee? Dog? Carter? Bill?
I'm sorry if you feel I've been egging you on, Cliff. That's
really not my intent.
> I won't do it, but you guys are going nuts on me. let's do a
> livable real approach.
We've had one for years. This whole ruckus started (this time)
because I complained about the language used by Mike Carter. He
should be judged by the same standards as Rod or Zak or myself.
Why does my request that Mike be censured (NOT "censored") cause
such a commotion when complaints against Rod or Zak do not?
Message: 3881
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer !
Subject: Thanks
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 15:35:07
...to Dean and Bill. I couldn't have said it better myself. Mostly because
I've given up trying.
Message: 3882
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Dee
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 18:17:49
Don't give up trying Dee, that is NOT what I was saying.
However, where was your complaint about Zak? Why only Mike Carter?
If you want me to enforce the "Up Yours" that you listed as one amoung the
other gripes.. do you REALLY want that enforced for everyone that "Up
Yours" can NOT be used? It is not profane language, but you did object to
it. You say fair, or do you mean you just don't want Mike Carter saying
those words. This is where I am confused....
The "If the dog had not stopped to shit, It could have caught
the rabbit" is a little story in wisdom. The word 'shit' was not said to
offend, but was an important part of the story. Simple fact of life.
I honestly want the board kept a readable source of enjoyment for
all, but how far do you want this 'Sqeaky Clean' to go? I changed '$hit' to
'Poop'...but do you feel that is also just as offensive? Should we stop
writing to end the offensivness of writing?
I find Roger Mann's idea the American public should be REGISTERD to
have a fire arm or to not have one at all. I am more offended by that then
anyother thing he could possibly call me or say. But do I want his post
censored off the board... HELL NO! So tell me Bill and Dee and Zak and Rod
and Hawley and Roger .... the list of words and thoughts you want
banned from Apollo. I will bet you can't come up with a list that will
agree with anyone elses list. Yet you expect me to do this with out flaw.
Message: 3883
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Bill B
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 18:34:01
First off, I do think the PUBlic board should be kept cleanner then
it has been.
Second, Miz Dee posted something on the LATe Night Sig thinking it
was also an X-RATED SIG... Mike said something, and then Miz Dee attacked
back at Mike. In Mikes post there were some words that I thought were out
of line, but after reading Miz Dee's complaint, she listed things like
"Up Yours" as profane. She complained about "Throwing a brick though a
window"... and on and on. In all honestly, she did not think Mike should
have posted his thoughts on the subject at all. She was even upset that Mike
was on TV for the peaceful protest march we did on Memorial day.
On the other hand, I thought Mike came down hard on Miz Dee as
well.... Too hard, as I had already politly told her the LATe Night SIG was
not R-Rated. Her mistake is understandable and she Stopped such post right
away. I have no complaint there... But Mike rags on Dee and Dee rags on
Mike. What is a Sysop to do?
Bill, I had no problem with your complaint...and I was off the
system for one day and was not able to take care of it as fast as it should
have been done. In this time period, Dee probably though I was letting Mike
get away with it, when that is not the way it was. I Understand how this
could upset anyone. Fair is fair.. Now Rod thinks I don't follow my own
rules.. Someone please tell him I do edit and fix my posts when I slip up.
Message: 3884
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Cliff?
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 20:23:32
In your last post, I think you are mixing up political speech with speech
that takes exception to ules-flouting messages. How can you
misunderstand Dee's complaints about Carter's attitude on guns with her
comments on his language and attacks on users?
Message: 3885
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Beyond...
Subject: Shooting off
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 23:46:32
I sit on the edge of my couch with the loaded gun in my hand. It's slick
black surface feels nice against my hot skin. The fan is blowing slowly,
back and forth, attempting to bring life into the dead air. The radio is
talking at me, the tv is flashing images but none of it makes any sence. I
reach for my vibrator and burn my hand on the metal: it has been on all
day. It has been over worked today, just like me. I pick it up again by
the handle and place the hot metal on the seam of my jeans. I can still
feel the heat through the tough layer of blue. With my other hand, I bring
the gun to my face. It's cold steel tickles the small hairs on my face as I
drag it's barrel over my cheeks, over my neck, up to my mouth. I lick the
tip as I push it over my lips. I deep throat it, letting my tongue play
with the trigger. I feel the heat in my pussy begin to rise with the
vibrations from my over worked toy. I unbutton my jean shorts and slip them
off one leg, exposing my naked snatch. I reach for an ice cube and drop it
into my wet well for a few seconds. Then, popping it pass the barrel in my
mouth, I suck hard as I place the burning metal onto my clit. I bite down
hard into ice and metal, the ice crushing, the metal biting back. I choke
down the tears as I drop one hand down to my breast, pinching my nipple. I
bring the gun down slowly, between my breasts, over my stomach and lightly
tease the inside of my legs. "This time is it. This time I'll really do
it," I think. I feel the cold edge of the gun waiting to enter its target.
I swollow what's left of the ice and drop to the floor. I turn round so my
back is at the flashing tv and noisy radio that I can't really see or hear.
I stare up at the blank walls as I slowly push the gun into my cunt.
Message: 3886
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Beyond...
Subject: Pull my trigger...
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 23:57:25
I reach between my legs and place the vibrator on my clit as I rock back and
forth onto the gun. I buck wildly as I bite into the sofa, tearing it with
my teeth. I feel that sweet feeling begin to spread from my lips and I
try to stop it. I freeze. The gun is halfway inside of me. I dropped the
vibrator a few inches from my clit, the heat still rising, my heat still
climbing. "This time I'm going to do it," I command. And I know it's time.
I bring the buzzer back up to my pussy, leaving right where it left off. I
position my finger on the trigger of the gun as I continue to pump it into
my wet cunt. The radio and tv plant pictures on the wall in front of me in
neon and I close my eyes to block Him out. The noice engulfs my ears with
screams and yelling. I realize the screams are my own and I am beginning to
come. I wait until I find I am decending my climax and shout and shoot:
"He'll never have me again. NEVER!"
My come and blood mix as I slump onto the couch, leaving my memory as my
memories leave me.
Message: 3887
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: wisdom tooth
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 01:12:15
A classic example of a misplaced aphorism. If the little dog had not
stopped to shit, it would have suffered toxic shock. A moribund dog cannot
catch rabbits, smarmy parables notwithstanding.
Message: 3888
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Re-BuTTal
Subject: last
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 01:15:34
Er, you want I should get a sponge?
Message: 3889
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Shit-Chat!
Subject: Cliff
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 07:40:50
Thanks for the additional history, Cliff. I'm rarely up
early (or late) enough to log in to the ate Night SIG and
wasn't aware that Mike and Melissa (Sounds like a pop duo from
the 60s, no?) were at each other there, too.
One of my younger boys is currently in the "...but I didn't
MEAN to..." stage of avoiding responsibility. In your story
about the little dog, "shit" might not be intended to offend, but
surely would offend some readers. Your point can be made in
another way and should be. I agree with Beau that you're mixing
the censorship of ideas (which none of us supports) with the
censorship of certain expressions (which, it would seem, a large
number of us supports).
I'm sure you, more than just about anyone, knows how
difficult it is to tell when someone's joking on a BBS and when
they're serious. Maybe we should encourage the use of
"emoticons" (Those little ASCII faces such as :) ) or a simple
"" to indicate when a poster is joking. I, for one, cannot
tell when Mike writes in jest and his attacks, if taken at face
value, do get tiresome.
As for the list of offensive words you requested, there can
be none; and to try and build one is folly. You know how to
behave in public. Apply that knowledge here.
Message: 3890
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Up Yours
Subject: Oh My!
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 07:41:30
A rather nice mix of sex and horror, Melissa. It was
obvious from the start what was going to happen (Jeez, it was
hard not to say "coming" there.), but sort of like watching
something horrible on the news: riveting in a sick way.
I sure hope Jan Brewer doesn't see this. All you could have
added to make her happier would be to have Ozzy Osborn on the
radio and MTV on the television.
And be careful about mixing horror and sex: Sex is often
horrible enough on its own. :)
Message: 3891
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Dog on Dee
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 08:29:32
It is you who is confused. First off, Dee has the right to have her
view on guns. I however do not see her view as being negative. I was
however concerned that when one complains about 'Up Yours' from Mike Carter,
then lets Zak post something like 'Genitals' on the PUBlic board... and
keeps quite. This leads me to believe, it is okay for Dee's friends to post
gray area words, but not Mike. Is this PERSONAL, or is Dee truly concerned
with the quality of the lic board.
I would like to think this is over...I will try and use good
judgment in keeping the PUBlic area 'Sqeaky Clean'. I can do this BETTER
with YOUR help... YOUR being ALL the $tatus users. I find it no fun to Zap
or Edit posts. I *HATE* it in fact. But I want complaints to be FAIR! If
you complain about Mike for one word, and don't say anything about Rod, then
we still have a problem.
Speaking of Rod... I did NOT edit out 'ass' in Dean Hathaways post.
I DID edit my posts that I got complaints on.... ules apply to SysOP
as well as you.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 3892
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer !
Subject: JESUS CHRIST
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 08:45:36
I TOLD you, Cliff, that I hadn't seen Zak's message until the day after it
was posted and I DID say that the word "Balls" should be deleted. Just
because I didn't know the minute he said it doesn't mean I think it's ok.
I responded about it as soon as I saw it.
NOW then. Up yours. I was only pointing out that Mike seems to use a lot
of anal insults and was trying to get a rise out of him. I could care less
that anyone said it; words are not offensive to me. GEEZZ. Can we get on
with life now?
Message: 3893
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Question ?
Subject: Bill on sex
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 08:48:33
"is often horrible enough on its own"?
Now that is an interesting statement. Would you mind explaining?
Message: 3894
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Testicles??
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 09:36:50
What is so bad about the word 'testicles' being on the public board? Isn't
that what octipus' have? Hahahahahahahahahaha. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 3895
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer !
Subject: last/Octipussies
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 12:25:04
Only the males.
Message: 3896
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Kids
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 12:26:37
Any kid who is capable enough to use a computer and figure out how to log
on and read messages most probably knows more than you or I about sex and
dirty words. -Rod
End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 1337
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: LAST
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 01:39:31
Oh Lordy.....
Message: 1338
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Piss on it!
Subject: SLEEP?
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 01:54:08
You always seemed like such a polite lad in public......
Message: 1339
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Last
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 06:14:41
Yeah, until he started throwing bricks...
Message: 1340
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Answer!
Subject: Cliff/COS
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 08:06:30
It's a thought, but considering the messages which intervene between your
question and this answer, maybe one unrestricted SIG is more than enough for
me.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 1341
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike C.
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 11:05:29
Well I've got to admit you still hold the prize for the best insults! No one
is your peer. Your imagination is supurb - so is your syntax. I'm not
joking. I enjoy them fully. You never cease to amaze me. -=*) ANN (*=-
P.S. BTW - I download your headass picture. It's an old one, we have it
printed out some where, but it looks good in VGA! I also like your added
addition of the gradient fill on the lake Pleasant pix too.
Message: 1342
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Deep Doo Doo!
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 13:05:14
Hee-hee...
Message: 1343
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Deep Doo Doo!
Subject: last/yup!
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 12:29:22
And I'm saving the best for later. Do I feel like Rushdie or what?
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 66370
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Answer!
Subject: BECK/ALAMO
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 01:51:58
Yes, I am familiar with the Tony Alamo Church. He's just another
crackpot spreading hatred in the name of "God". I pretty much agree with
Savage's post earlier on this subject.
Have you had the pleasure to see the Jack Chick Christian mini-comics?
(While we're on the subject of kooks.....)
Message: 66371
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Joke
Subject: Rot Williams
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 02:14:15
For someone with the massive intolerance you exude like the stench from
a dead skunk, you sure have the mouth to match it.
Just as your wildest wide-eyed hate fit against anything no matter how
remotely connected with Theism is your spiteful despise for someone
you can't convince into your certifiably brain-warped senselessness.
Awww shuckola, Rotty, I see you're visibly upset.
That's what you wanted in the first place though...me thinks you
need it...kinda like a junkie needs LSD...right?
Message: 66372
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: socialized medicine
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 04:47:31
Perhaps a good place to begin would be to require hospitals to make a
available a comprehensive list of current fees. Fees for rooms, procedures,
and supplies can vary dramatically from hospital to hospital, so the
consumer should be armed with cost information before making a choice.
Message: 66373
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger on guns
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 05:10:27
So criminals should not be allowed to obtain guns. Agreed. Now, how do we
stop them? Pass another law? Enforce the laws already on the books that
clearly state that felons may not possess firearms?
If a criminal mind is going to ignore the laws against robbery, burglary,
murder or whatever his "thing" is, what makes you think that he is going to
obey a law that says he can't have a tool with which to ply his trade?
Message: 66374
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul on guns
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 07:37:47
I suggest at least a 24 hour waiting period in order to
check police records for any criminal record.
Message: 66375
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Roger/Guns
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 08:33:04
The NRA recently worked on a project with the Justice Department to check
out the feasibility of doing rapid background checks on prospective gun
purchasers. The idea was to create a database which would contain the
identies of people NOT legally eligible to purchase a firearm. The system
would have kept new guns from being sold directly to criminals, without
infringing the law-abiding purchasers rights any further.
The study found that law enforcement records are nearly worthless when it
comes to clearing or denying a purchase. The target had been an up to date
database which could be accessed right at the point of sale, but the finding
was that the necessary records are not available in a form which would allow
background checks to be done in ANY reasonable amount of time. These records
are in a different form in every jurisdiction, and they often do not reflect
the final outcome of the case, such as conviction or aquital.
Given the actual state of information available, waiting periods for
background check purposes are a farce. The check is not really being done to
any large degree even in places where the waiting period exists. California
has had a long waiting period since before I moved there in '76. The police
effort required for checking out every new gun purchaser is a huge drain on
law enforcement resources, which would be much more effective if used to
deal with actual crimes.
As CLiff mentioned, a waiting period is more likely to keep a law-abiding
person from getting a gun when they need it for self-defense than it is to
keep a person from getting one to attack someone. The total percentage of
guns used in crime is so tiny that a blanket waiting period is a bad idea.
Message: 66376
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Savage/Seat Belt
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 10:03:33
You misunderstood.
I didn't say that insurance companies would charge lower rates for those
who agreed to wear seat belts; I suggested that they charge lower rates for
those who wear seat belts.
That is, if you opt for the lower-cost insurance, but are injured while
*not* wearing one, you are simply not covered. You pay your medical
expenses out of your own pocket.
So who's going to be hurt by a policy like this? Only *stupid* people.
And they probably won't notice. It's simply a matter of protecting people
from the stupidity of others, but not from their own.
It's like smoking -- there should be places (like smokers' own homes)
where they can poison themselves all they want. But non-smokers should not
have to put up with the second-hand poison.
=(O,O)= Hoot!
Message: 66377
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/ditto
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 10:04:35
Yeah -- put the expense on those who agree to bear it, and reduce the
expense for the rest of us. What do you have against that?
=(O,O)= Hoot!
Message: 66378
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hoot!
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 10:19:05
I like your idea regarding seat belts. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66379
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/socialized
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 10:21:47
Ok then, what is your answer to the problem? With our longivity, chances are
we're all going to get sick - have major surgery - a major illness,
therefore, the chances of losing everything is great. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66380
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bobby on socialized
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 10:32:33
#66344 ... I had to laugh at that re: 'if it's anything like in the
military' ..... I felt the same way when my husband had the operation at the
veteran's hospital! It was scarey! They practically ignored him for the most
part. But, he did get an excellent operation at the hands of very good
doctors I will say that. At least it was there for him and he had a choice.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66381
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Question?
Subject: Pauley
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 10:52:17
I have a question Pauley. Yesterday while out with hubby, we met 3 'Born
again Christians'! Now I won't go into detail as to why/how we met them
because that's beside the point. After we got home, we discussed this thing
and came to the conclusion we don't understand what 'Born again Christian'
really means??!! These men all readily admitted to being previous alcholoics
too and their life was going nowhere - one even on the very brink of
suicide. I say a B.A.C. is one that believes in God but has slacked off at
some point in their life and they mean born again as an emotional experience
of coming back to God. Right? I assume one does not need to be an alcholic
to do this? I also assume that an athiest that suddenly finds God/Jesus
could not be considered a B.A.C.??!! Please believe Pauley these questions
are not to start a religious war at all. We really want to know. These men
certainly impressed us. We have heard the expression Born again Christian
all of our lives - yet, perhaps we do not know what this truly means. See?
We were just raised to believe. I know that the Catholics do not believe in
being born again. Do you consider yourself born again? If so, would you
elaborate on that?
Want to know something else funny about yesterday? We took a drive last
night and our little V-Weep V.W. just quit on us way out in the toolies on
Northern. No one would stop but an Assembly of God minister! He helped us
push! All of these B.A.C that we met yesterday all went to the Assembly of
God Church! Strange day er? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66382
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: ann/BAC
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 12:40:17
Strange you should mention Slack.
Message: 66383
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/derivatives
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 12:53:31
Well, in message number 66340 you stated, erroneously, that "If a curve is
expressed as Kx**3, then the first derivative of this curve is the rate of
change of the curve itself..."
Now, perhaps I misunderstood you, but the first derivative does not express
change of curvature. The first derivative expresses the slope of the curve
"at a point." The SECOND derivative expresses the rate of change of this
slope, also "at a point," or in other words, the rate of change of the
curve.
Message: 66384
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jack Chick comics
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 12:57:58
No, tell us about them...
Message: 66385
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 14:45:48
I think that resolving the problems of unlimited liability for health care
providers (i.e. they can be sued for $29 million and lose, when their
greatest possible gain for the proceedure might be less than $1000) and the
forced subsidizing of non-paying patients by paying patients would allow our
existing health care industry to become more efficient and affordable. This
would be a better alternative than a forced socialized system. I am
interested in how costs are kept down under socialized medicine. I would
guess that they limit liability in some way and possibly subsidize the whole
program from general tax revenues as well.
If you assume that everyone will have a major health problem sooner or
later, then there is no reason for socialized medicine or even health
insurance. All such schemes depend on there being enough people who pay into
the system without making major claims to pay all the costs of those who do.
If the system was designed so that everyone could be a major beneficiary,
then the taxes/payments would have to be so high that the average person
could just keep the money and pay all their own medical bills. Because most
people will not require more in expenses than they paid in, in the real
world, insurance can and does work and it makes sense for the average person
to have it.
Specialized insurances which offered greater flexibility could also
reduce costs (such as Steve S.'s low-cost auto insurance which does not
cover the policy holder if they are in an accident and not wearing a seat
belt). Less interference in medical and insurance issues by government would
allow cheaper alternatives and bring costs down. See You Later, Dean H.
Message: 66386
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: CLIFF
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 14:59:59
> I plead guilty Bill.... get a rope?
I'd prefer to shoot you. 8^O
> I feel most users agree that the PUBlic board, the SHOW CASE >
of Apollo, needs to be kept 'Squeaky Clean'..... even if I am
> not sure what 'Squeaky Clean' is.
Bravo! There's absolutely nothing wrong with not being able to
rationally explain everything you feel is right! Someone's got
to make judgments and "I know what it is, but I know it when I
see it" is as good a reason as any else!
> We would like more $tatus users on Apollo, but I fear we drive
> too many away, always sounding like a WAR board, then a bunch
> of friends who get over zealous in our posted debates.
Would that we could all keep Apollo's ules, especially the
last, in mind when we post.
Message: 66387
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: For sale
Subject: Booklets
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 15:46:02
Coming to a mailbox near you!
Now taking orders for "Doing Dishes"($3.00) and "Pool Side"($1.00), the new
stories. Also available are "Tanning Bed"($3.00) and "Loving Thyself"($1.00
Send E-mail here to order or write to
Mychele
P.O. Box 1892
Tempe, AZ 85280-1892
Message: 66388
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Glands
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 16:35:33
Re: "I don't believe in forced charity."
That is an interesting name for socialism. "Forced Charity"
Message: 66389
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 16:40:55
Re: "I'm just suggesting that criminals and mental patients shouldn't be
allowed to buy them."
Let's see, everyone who has ever been convicted of a felony, or anyone who
has escaped convection of a felony on the grounds of insanity, should never
be allowed to purchase or own a weapon of any kind. How does that sound?
Message: 66390
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 16:51:44
Re: "I had to laugh at that re: 'if it's anything like in the military'"
Her's another. A person went to the military hospital to get treatment for
an ingrown toenail. Now, granted, an ingrown toenail isn't the most serious
thing in the world, but it can get serious. The hospital told the patient
they didn't have time or material for things like ingrown toenails. They
sent him home to wait till they contacted him. 3 months later a letter
arrived saying there was still nothing available. He wrote back and said
the ingrown toenail had taken a bad turn with infection and he had to get
his leg amputated. The hospital never answered. I'm not sure what they
thought. Maybe they thought it was true and were afraid to say anything.
More than likely, they lost the letter.
Message: 66391
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Religion
Subject: The Rules
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 20:25:38
*=* Apollo's 10 Commandments *=*
<1> Thou shalt not crash SYSTEMs
<2> Thou shalt not use profanity
<3> Thou shalt not falsify thy name
<4> Thou shalt not demean other users
<5> Thou shalt not pirate software
<6> Thou shalt not hog system time
<7> Thou shalt not post codes & passwords
<8> Thou shalt use ost office for private mail
<9> Thou shalt ap mail after reading
<10> Thou shalt be a good sport an promote good BBSing
Message: 66392
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Max and all
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 20:52:36
Eine woche bin ich weg gewesen, in Mexico. Und ich glaube, wir
sollen uns auf Englisch unterhalten, Mensch. Du kannst Deutsche viel besser
als mein, und es dasuert zu lange an dem bord. I've been in Mexico for a
week, laying on the sand, drinking Corona and thinking kind thoughts about
all of you Apolloans. Glad to be back. CDlif, keep giving them hell about
the use of weapons. Sorry I spelled your name wrong. JohnC.
Message: 66393
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: jeff/derivatives
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 21:11:53
yes, you are absolutely right. I mispoke, I misunderstood, I screwed
up. Now think about this:
d(sin(theta)/d(theta) = cos(theta)
d(cos(theta)/d(theta) = sin(theta)
so,
3
d sin(theta)/
d(theta) = cos(theta)
Message: 66394
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 21:13:38
By golly, Bob, I've think you've got it !
Message: 66395
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Question?
Subject: reality
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 21:26:04
Jeff Beck raised a real interesting question in the movie sig that I
would like to ask in the public forum. How do you prove reality ?
How do you know that you are not just dreaming or hallucinating
everything you experience ? In other words, how would you prove to
yourself, unambiguously, that everyone around you and everything
you see is independent of you and not just a reflection of your own
mind.
Message: 66396
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: cliff/registration
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 21:33:03
Cliff mentioned that he found my attitude on gun registration more
objectionable than filthy language on a public board. So, let's talk
about. Convince me I'm wrong by your arguments, Cliff. Don't seethe,
let me hear you out. I MAY change my mind.
I think that the freedom to drive a car is as important, if not more
important, than the freedom to shoot a gun. Yet, no one seriously
wants to do away with driver's licenses that are obtained, at least
once in your life, on the successful completion of a driver's test.
Why, then, would it be objectionable to restrict gun ownership to
those who could demonstrate competency in firearms after taking a
class much like the one you have been promoting on this board. This
would result, I am sure, in fewer gun accidents(else, why take the
class ?), and also have the benefit of making it at least marginally
more difficult for criminals to obtain their guns.
Message: 66397
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 22:09:12
Roger, I don't think registration of CARS should be as is, but it is SILLY
to compare that with gun ownership. One big thing that comes to mind, in my
country of Estonia, they shot the owners of guns, not cars. This also holds
true in Poland, the Russians shot registerd gun owners. These are facts,
and you may as well been the one to have shot my relatives.
Second, do you really believe a CRIMINAL will bother taking a class and
registering? ha ha ha ha. Why hell, all he has to do is get the list from
the government of all legally registerd gun owners, hunt down one close to
him, and STEAL the weapon.... Or just get one from the underground that
smuggles in tons of drugs... Guns will be just as big of a business as
drugs. Why you think it will be more difficult is beyond me. Drugs are
illegal and it is NO problem to get them. Difficult for John Doe Good Guy,
yes... Bad guy...No Way. For the right kind of money..I will make him a
gun or sell him one of mine.
Third, you are violating my Constitutional Rights that are not to be
infringed. But once you let the camels nose (the government) into the tent,
all is lost! After registration always comes confiscation when guns have
been the issue. When the Government fears guns, then it is time to fear the
government. And it's coming brother...it's coming.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*
Message: 66398
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: SocializedMedicine
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 22:46:06
Well I've read the comments of a few folks now, so let me answer some more
misconceptions about socialized medicine.
First off, the cost in germany did not skyrocket, because the system was
set up with the idea that everybody might get ill at sometime or an other.
Second, the german system is not set up to make a profit, it is set up to
make shure that sick folks are taken care of. Thats the ONLY purpose of
socialized medicine in germany. Like I have stated before, I have NEVER
received inadequet care from any healthcare proffesional while in germany,
wether it was free or not, it did not make a difference. I would rather tend
to say I have received inadequete care in the US, mainly because they dont
care if you come back, there are millions of more suckers out there to take
money from. I personally work in some part of the healthfield myself, I am a
livein homehealth aid. That means I take care of old folks. When I see what
happens to these folks when they need medical care is despicable, to say the
least. For example ( I take care of 2 people, and dont make any profit )
The elderly lady I take care of. She is on a fixed income. When she has to
see a doctor he has the gall to send her a bill for the difference, even
though he know she only receives less than $600 a month out of that the
carehome gets some ( believe me it bearly enough to cover the costs ) and
the rest goes toward her medicine every month. Were does that doctor think
an elderly lady ( 80) could possibly get any money from, she obviously cant
work anymore, otherwise I wouldnt have to care for her. Her relatives are
not well to do, and they are only greatnieces for that fact. Yet this doctor
want to refuse to see her, because she can not Part1
Message: 66399
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: SOcialized Med. P2
Date: 06/08/90 Time: 23:00:21
pay the $25 difference. Does that say anything for his profession? My next
example a 98 year old man. He is in almost the same boat, except his doctor
is a familie friend of his, so he is kind of lucky I guess. This would not
happen with socialized medicine, nether would any of these folks receive
less adequete care. What do you tell a poor familie, and there are enough of
them, when their child needs a $100000 operation, they know they dont have
it , but they love their child. Will they be in debt for the rest of their
lives? Please dont tell me they should have thought about that before they
had children. In a recent report, I read that over 30% of the population in
AZ is only one month away from being homeless. That doesnt mean they will be
homeless, but one emergency room visit, and they will be. Not everybody has
the oportunity to be employed with a big company, because the smaller ones
cant afford the insurance premiums anymore. What do you tell those people,
go find an other job? Not with the way things are in this day and age. I am
lucky to be able to go to the VA, yea, its slow some times, but you are
taken care of. If there is a emergency, you will be seen there promtly, I
always have. A system like that would help millions I believe. Yes its not
perfect, but it would be a good start. With all the millions spent on the
defense budget and the war on drugs, loans to other countries (that never
get paid back) I think its time we the american public demand of our
government to a
start taking care of folks at home. We spent billions to research SDI, that
money could have been put to better use. Just think of all the people it
could have helped. Well enough sayed for today my fingertips are getting blo
Message: 66400
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: BECK/JACK CHICK
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 00:47:14
The comics by Jack Chick are beautifully drawn diatribes against
various groups : homosexuals, Mormons, Roman Catholics, D & D players, etc.
There are a few dozen in the set, but if you write them a sob story
letter you can probably get them for free. (I did.)
I will try to find mine & post the address soon. Who says the best
things in life aren't free?
Jack Chick comics are a MUST if you collect what I call "rabid
Christian" literature.
Message: 66401
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Question?
Subject: Kennedy/German
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 00:53:45
What he actually said translates to "I am a jelly doughnut."
Message: 66402
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 00:57:28
I am at a loss. Part of this is my neglect of trigonometric functions and
their derivatives, and part of this is the result of your notation, which I
find abstruse. Of course, it's hard to be clear and concise using an
alpha-numeric character set.
Message: 66403
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger/solipsism
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 00:58:54
You don't.
At least, not within any ordinary framework.
Message: 66404
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rogey{
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 01:30:26
Re: "By golly, Bob, I've think you've got it !"
We actually agree on something??
Message: 66405
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Politics
Subject: Socialized medicine
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 02:25:49
You think that I was only referring to socialized medicine as "forced
charity". What about our current programs? YOu are forced, through taxes to
pay for a woman who has 5 kids, for them to be born, fed, clothed, schooled.
And best of all, you could have spent the extra money on your own kids. But,
of course, you have no choice. I think there should be a choice beyond
certain logical programs.
"Give a ways" are ok...Give the person a way to learn to support themselves.
Giveaways are not ok.
Everyone that can do anything should have to do something for their money.
How about day care? Run a day care something like a bank...with interest.
You work for them for a certain numbers of hours without pay, then you can
send your kid there at a later date without you working there at the same
time. The working poor could put in their hours on the weekend. Those not so
bad off could put in their hours on weekdays. Those that don't want to work
there pay like normal, providing casf for bills.
But instead, those who chose not to have children are robbed in the name of
those who do. Just an example of how something could work...
s
Message: 66406
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JeffL Germany
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 02:26:43
Over there, they don't have as many baby machines pumping out more bodies to
be cared for.
Message: 66407
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: insurance
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 04:03:39
Insurance is routinely purchased with the comapany's full knowledge that
sooner or later there will be a major claim --- ever heard of life
insurance?
State Farm, for example, paid out more in claims last year than it received
in premiums. That they still were immensely profitable is the result of
wisely investing the dollars as they come in.
Message: 66408
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/guns
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 05:20:43
What you don't seem to understand, Roger, is that, if a criminal, or anyone
with a record, wants a gun, he is not going to go into a legitimate gun shop
to buy one. All sorts of weapons are available through sources that take
your money, ask no questions and couldn't give a rat's rear end about rules,
regulations or waiting periods. Even if I didn't know any black marketeers
in weapons, I could go to Prescott Valley swap meet this weekend (or any
other meet outside of Phoenix), and find guns galore openly displayed for
sale, and those dealers couldn't care less who they sell them to, as long as
the money is there.
What, then, does that do to your 24 hour waiting period, aside from keeping
an honest man from buying a gun without a police check and registration?
Message: 66409
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Annie/BAC
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 05:33:03
The term is really quite Scriptural, and comes from the words of Jesus
Christ, who said (I can'T recall chapter and verse) "You MUST be born
again." He went on to explain that while a person is born once physically,
and cannot return to the womb to do it over, he can, through coming to
Christ in a very personal relationship, be born spiritually. In other words,
the spirit that dwells in each of us becomes awakened to the presence of
God, and the Spirit of God dwells in the essence or spirit of the believer.
Thus, a person becomes "born again". It is really not the onerous thing that
some people would make it out to be, and does not necessarily indicate a
dark, dismal past from which an individual was snatched.
While it is true that many "born again" believers did have a rather dismal
life prior to coming to Christ, the Bible clearly states that ALL are
sinners, worthy of spiritual death (separation from God), and stand in need
of a saviour. God, through His love and grace (undeserved merit), provided
that way of escape from death in the person of His Son, Jesus, whose
sacrifice of Himself on the cross provided the payment in full for the
penalty of sin for all men. Those who recognize and accept that sacrifice as
being for them, then become "born again" whether they use the exact term or
not.
I hope this oversimplification answers your questions, Ann. God bless.
Message: 66410
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau Doggy
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 09:21:27
I don't go along with #4! -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66411
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley/last
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 09:30:00
Thanks you very much. You made it clear. However, does that mean when a
person becomes Born Again, he never believed before? Can a slacked off
believer become Born Again? Or would this term apply to a person that goes
back to God for what ever reason? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66412
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Religion
Subject: Last
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 10:51:59
I guess you missed the important distinction. The first birth, which
everyone gets, is the physical one. Being "born again" means to be born
spiritually.
=(O,O)= Hoot!
Message: 66413
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/sin & cos
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 10:54:13
The derivative of cos (theta) is *minus* sin (theta).
Now with the *hyperbolic* trig functions, the sinh and cosh functions are
each other's derivative.
#(O,O)# Hoot!
Message: 66414
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Roger #66395/reality
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 12:43:46
True reality is anyone's guess. We could all be a figment of YOUR
imagination.
Message: 66415
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Socialization
Date: 06/09/90 Time: 12:44:50
Notes on Socialized Medicine taken from John & Lorelei Barber of St. George
Australia.
There are different levels of SM. One level is for those on very limited
incomes wherein all services are free and for emergencies just as prompt
although a ward type recovery room is used.
There are some doctors who choose to work in private hospitals and receive
their fees. They do not have to partake in SM.
Another level is for government subsidy of the middle class. Office visits
as well as medicine is subsidized. A visit to the doctor would cost $23
but the patient pays only $7. wherein a prescription would be $10 but the
net cost would be $2.
Most interns start out in the socialized areas but after completion of
their degree can do whatever suits them. Graduate doctors are in
attendance, of course.
Then there are those who pay Blue Cross and can choose a specific doctor
along with having a private room. For non-emergencies the Blue Cross
insured can usually obtain quicker services as they do not go on the
waiting list, depending on circumstances.
All in all the people are happy with the medical situation. Each receives
needed and competent care.
I am told by these same folks that in England all medicine is socialized
and from a doctor friend of theirs, were told that it is a good system.
In any case, and I will probe some more through the thick Aussie accent, I
believe that reasonable cost medical care is a must. I personally know of
a family who has been financially wiped off the face of the map due to a
daughter becoming ill.
It is a threat to us all. More later....these are my notes and I haven't
quite digested everything that was told me just ten minutes ago.
I find Jeff L's messages on SM and Germany interesting and of course Dean's
logic is up to par.