*=* Journey to a SIG *=* *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C Press to abort Message: 6558 Author: $ John Cummings Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Sysop address Date: 05/28/90 Time: 19:44:49 If I should want to get into a few different SIGs, how do I do that? The program tells me to write to the Sysop. Must I send U.S. Postal service mail, or is there an address here on the board I can use to send msg to Sysop? Or maybe I just go on as heretofore? ? ? Message: 6559 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Writers Cramp Subject: Figments Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:27:42 You don't exist either until I decide to allow my computer to call and tell me otherwise. It does a daily reality check on you to see if you're still around. After all, the great GOD U.S. WEST could pull your realism right out from under you...;-) Message: 6560 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Answer! Subject: John Cummings Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:57:28 John, there is aost office cmd you can use to send any user PRIVATE mail, including me (the SYSOP).... It is also listed in the
elp files. SO, give the cmd a try! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 6561 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Cliff Date: 05/29/90 Time: 10:04:26 Thanks for imagining such a nice weekend for me. See You Later, Dean H. $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:JN *=* Journey to a SIG *=* *=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C Press to abort Message: 3856 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer ! Subject: last Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:43:47 No, Harllan....as in Brain-dead Ellison. The Sci-Fi Author. "A Boy and his dog" "Dangerous visions" etc etc etc Ellisonics; The Study of loud-mouthed micro-organisms. If I were to pull a trigger on anybody in my life, heaven forbid I do to begin with, first on my list is Dennis DeConcini..next is this shit-for-lack-of-brains openly psychopathic bed wetter and grandtsanding masturbator. Instead of the full metal jacketed slug however, I would doctor the case and make my own custom slug. An alloy between silver and lead (pewter) with a large cavity full of mercury. Using a 30-06 in this fashion would tend to blow someone's head apart much like the effect when a full balloon is introduced to a pin. I have a low opinion of it. I can imagine and dream and think terrible thoughts, but I am guilty of neither till the day they read my mind. Message: 3857 Author: $ Gary Jones Category: Cosmos-Chatter Subject: last Date: 05/29/90 Time: 12:34:59 Ellison Wonderland was the name of one of his anthologies. Message: 3858 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer ! Subject: last Date: 05/30/90 Time: 01:12:53 Isn't that special? His very own Wunderland. Message: 3859 Author: $ Gary Jones Category: Cosmos-Chatter Subject: last Date: 05/30/90 Time: 21:15:02 No thanks to Lewis Carroll. Message: 3860 Author: $ Steven Carls Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's Subject: X-Rated Date: 05/31/90 Time: 22:34:44 If the stork delivers white babies, and the wren delivers black babies and the robin delivers chinese babies, who delivers no babies???\ The SWALLOW... " The ATARI WILDCAT " Steven Carls X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:JN *=* Journey to a SIG *=* *=* Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board entered *=* Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:$C Press to abort Message: 750 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Review Subject: Chaplin Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:14:56 Wow. That was the first Chaplin film I had ever seen and I don't know how I could have gone through my life, being as interested in movies as I am, and not have seen one before. He really is a master of mime and direction. His "Hitler" (Henkyl) was great with the ranting of mock German. This was his first film in which he spoke and he seemed to want to make a real political statement. His speech at the end of the movie was broadcasted over the radio as a seperate speech. Very strong words from a quiet man. Message: 751 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Dean 4/4 Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:49:25 Thanks for the well written review. I figured as much like Ann. I will be in line in about 2 weeks; 1 week after the scheduled release of TOTAL RECALL. I seem to have total recall of what such a mass following and much publicized film will do to a theatre on opening day. I sat in line at Cine' Capri about 10 years ago for the 2nd installment of the Star Wars trilogy . It took me 4 hours and 900 feet to get a seat in the next to last front row. I predict that the opening few days will be utter mayhem. I have a nice excursion to 4 peaks planned for that Sunday and a gun class on Saturday. Schwartznegger can wait. Message: 752 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit-Chat Subject: BackToTheFuture Date: 05/29/90 Time: 10:10:18 I finally rented part 2, now that part 3 is out. I liked part 2, but I am glad I waited until 3 was available to watch right away because of the way they left the time travelers seperately stranded in the past at the end. I will probably need to hurry up and see part3 before it leaves the Cine Capri. See You Later, Dean H. Message: 753 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Dean/review Date: 05/29/90 Time: 18:04:17 Superb review! Let's assasinate Bob Fenster. Mike? Message: 754 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Trivia Subject: Who is Date: 05/30/90 Time: 01:13:42 Bob Fenster anyway? Message: 755 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Dean/BCTF Date: 05/30/90 Time: 05:23:55 The need of the people to see part 3 immediately, or at least very soon, was probably what t producers had in mind when they released part 2 to video on the day before part 3 showed up at the theaters. I feel the same way. I hate movies that end in the middle! Message: 756 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Junk Culture Subject: Bob Fenster Date: 05/30/90 Time: 21:56:14 ... is the movie reviewer for the Arizona Repugnant. Message: 757 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Fire Birds Date: 05/31/90 Time: 15:55:11 My boys took me to this movie for my birthday. I love chopper movies and I totaly enjoyed this one. Thanks Tyler and Travis! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* or Papa Cliff Message: 758 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Review Subject: Bird on a Wire Date: 05/31/90 Time: 22:28:13 Worth what I paid to see it (nothing). To be fair, it did move along fairly well, but it seemed to have a hard time choosing between being a light romantic comedy and a thriller. As a result, the filmmakers chose to introduce levity (really lame stuff, too) at just the right moments to destroy what little tension had been built up. The soundtrack didn't help either. It was heavy handed and solemn, in a pretentious, melodramatic way. I also think that the writers need to pull their head out of the sixties. BTW, those were Goldy's pert little haunches. Yummy. Message: 759 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Review Subject: The Package Date: 06/02/90 Time: 17:53:39 I rented the video. It was better than I expected. A good movie with lots of action and suspense. I recommend it. Message: 760 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Review Subject: Total Recall Date: 06/03/90 Time: 01:56:25 On a scale of one to five stars, this film rates -- ten stars. This is one of the best, and one of the most original films I have seen in my life. I would, and will, pay to see it again. Two suggestions: Don't drink coffee or other diaretics (sp?) before you go. I held a bladder full of piss longer than I ever had before in my life. When the movie ended and I got up, I had cramps and my lower stomach stuck out an inch and a half. Nevertheless, it was worth it: there is absolutely no part of the film which provides time enough to leave the theatre -- and not miss something important. It is an action film, and of course you'd miss the action, but more importantly, you'd miss some important plot clue -- it's also a film of ideas -- and how! Add excellent acting by Arnie along with some rather unusual and well-executed special effects, and you've got a top-notch film. My other suggestion? Don't read reviews. Don't listen to reviews from friends -- no matter how much they insist that they won't give anything away. You need to see this film with as few preconceptions as possible. There are surprises aplenty. Message: 761 Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Total Recall Date: 06/03/90 Time: 04:15:43 I thought the ending sequence was a bit goofy, but otherwise I enjoyed the film. Message: 762 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Review Subject: Look Who's Talking Date: 06/03/90 Time: 04:50:58 A somewhat unique and refreshing approach to comedy, it depicts many situations as they might appear throgh the eyes (and words) of an infant from birth up to about 2 years old. Lots of laughs. Well worth the watching. (Thanks for the revies on Total Recall. I'm not an Arnie fan, but will put that one high on my list of musts.) Message: 763 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Jeff Beck Date: 06/03/90 Time: 08:38:34 Thanks for the info on 'Total Recall'.... on your recommendation, I am going to see this ASAP. I generally do NOT see films by Arnie S. clif- Message: 764 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Jeff on Total Recall Date: 06/03/90 Time: 15:17:37 Nice review. You make me drool to see it. I don't think I will wait until it's in the video stores either. All the critics I've read give it the full stars - one said it rated along with The Terminator and Aliens (2) - two of my favorit movies. -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 765 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Cliffy/last Date: 06/03/90 Time: 15:22:34 You mean you have not seen the Ternimator, Preditor, Running man, Twins, Raw Deal, Commando, etc. etc.???? Baaaaaaad!!!! I recommend Pumping Iron too. -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 766 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Ann Date: 06/03/90 Time: 15:46:41 I see them when they make it to the video rental stores. I generaly do not waste my money seeing Mr. S. at the first run theaters. I will say his movies have gotten better over the last few years...Twins was nice as a rental (worth the 3 bucks for the whole family to see it) *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Zak's FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:JN *=* Journey to a SIG *=* *=* Late Night Bulletin Board entered *=* Late Night Bulletin Board command:$C Press to abort Message: 1805 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Insomniac & inspired Subject: bah! Date: 05/22/90 Time: 00:35:21 My roommate is sitting at my right shoulder, consuming iced tea, with a carcinogenic sweetener. I find it difficult to post messages with him looking on. He says, "I'm glad to hear that. Now maybe there will be more intelligent conversation." (This is punctuated by a lot of self-satisfied chuckling.) If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning, I'd hammer in the evening, all over the second step of this trailer, a step which is more than slightly moribund. P.S. Roger: what does "compact" mean with reference to a set, or a space? Message: 1806 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Zippy Date: 05/22/90 Time: 00:39:09 He's made the Sunday comics. What's next? (I understand that there will soon be a Zippy motion picture -- no foolin'.) Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that Zippy has become largely superfluous in the latest strips? It would seem that Zippy has gone from comic genius and master of the surreal non-sequitur, to a straight man, setting up lines for Griffy's whiny, self-indulgent social satires. Message: 1807 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Answer! Subject: What's next Date: 05/23/90 Time: 23:26:21 Loony Tunes are coming back -- 130 new cartoons will be made by Warner Bros. for use by AMC as shorts before feature films. Message: 1808 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Insomniac & inspired Subject: Loons,Tunes & Goons Date: 05/24/90 Time: 00:59:22 Whatever happened to Jonathan Brandmeyer's LOONS ? The snowbird song from the 80's et al ? As far as the Looney Tunes are concerned, I applaud that...these audiences need to be educated. ;-0 If someone has a copy of the Snowbird song...set to the tune of a song that escapes me..I remember the tune..not the name... Jonny was on KZZP back in '81-82.... Let me know..I'd very much like a copy. Message: 1809 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Beau/1807 Date: 05/24/90 Time: 23:14:52 It will be interesting to see if they meet the caliber of classic WB cartoons. Most of the stuff created for television was dreadful, especially in animation, secondly in story line. Message: 1810 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Mike C/Brandmeier Date: 05/24/90 Time: 23:16:04 I think I have a copy around here somewhere on 45. Message: 1811 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Insomniac & inspired Subject: yeah well Date: 05/25/90 Time: 23:35:08 but so like HEY and he danced backward and backward and back to the last grown horse that began to fly as it did "die!" she yelled as she fell into Hell - it's own heat set the beat to the street where they did meat that is ground and "Pound it in to me" she whispered with breathe that begged and pleaded to be scratched with the knife of his wife, the cook the thief and the love that came between their legs and runnth over her soft hair that she bare ask if he dare to stare into those wells that held tales of the ankles with shakles and shakes with the clanks of the shanks of the ass of the balls as they dance to the song of the moon that rose full as her 'loon with the knowledge that soon in this 'toon was her doom. Message: 1812 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Question? Subject: last Date: 05/26/90 Time: 00:01:06 Have you been sleeping with "Heavy D" again? Message: 1813 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Just a "let you know Date: 05/26/90 Time: 01:29:47 But this SIG is open to ALL $tatus users who can log on late... So do NOT get carried away with too many XXX Rated posts... Okay guys? This is just a double XX Rated SIG, not triple XXX *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 1814 Author: $ Steven Carls Category: Answer! Subject: Brandmeir Date: 05/28/90 Time: 00:10:42 Brandmeir got an offer from the LOOP, a Chicago radio station. The offer was in the vacinity of $250,000. He didn't do as weel as the radio station had originally thought. He has his following and he still writes comical songs. " The ATARI WILDCAT " Steven Carls Message: 1815 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Question? Subject: This SIG Date: 05/28/90 Time: 03:54:12 I was under the impression that *anyone* of any age can get into this sig as long as they are a $tatus user. I would be personally offended by the garbage that Melissa posted back a few if I had a younger son or daughter logging on here and running across that message. I think, much like the PUBLIC board, that this SIG should be kept clean and family oriented unless you otherwise post and warn. There is no such warning about the
ATE night SIG. I feel that message should be ZAPPED. Its garbage. Message: 1816 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Night-Life Subject: Brandmeier Date: 05/28/90 Time: 03:56:56 Yeah, I remember when he left for Chicago and some months later he was featured on somebody's daytime show or something...maybe donahue or Geraldo or whoever it was back then. I definitely would like to get a copy of the song from you Daryl. I was mentioning it to my wife after I posted that message and she expressed that it would be nice to have it as well because she remembers him too. Thanks in advance. You have my #..call! -Mike Message: 1817 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Mike Date: 05/29/90 Time: 23:30:50 You would let your children be up e at night to read Apollo??? Message: 1818 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Looney Toons Date: 05/29/90 Time: 23:32:05 Well, considering that the main theme of those old cartoons was _violence_, I am wondering if they are going to change that for the new ones. Also, will they keep Bugs, Porky, Daffy, et al, or will a new set of characters be created for the (non-violent?) new toons? Message: 1819 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Beau/Mike/Kids Date: 06/01/90 Time: 00:05:42 Oh God. Let's hope it hasn't reproduced. Message: 1820 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Question? Subject: Jeff Date: 06/01/90 Time: 00:07:11 What is Heavy D? Is that some new rap group or something? Message: 1821 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Melissa Date: 06/02/90 Time: 01:26:58 Garsh, I dunno! Lemme check my Encyclopedia o' hip-hop. Message: 1822 Author: $ Spaz Brown Category: Insomniac & inspired Subject: Dee's poem Date: 06/02/90 Time: 23:09:01 I want royalties for the use of "the void." I do have the trademark, you know. HB Message: 1823 Author: $ Spaz Brown Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Cliff & X-rating Date: 06/02/90 Time: 23:12:09 So what, if ANYTHING, has been X-rated? I don't think the words "balls" and "ass" qualify. You can hear them in ag & anatomy classes. Such sensitivity. HB Message: 1824 Author: $ Spaz Brown Category: Chit-Chat Subject: Brandmier Date: 06/02/90 Time: 23:13:52 Sorry about the misspelling, but he goes by Johnny B now and I never see his last name. Caught him in concert in Alpine, Wisconsin, in the summer of '88 -- wasn't a bad show. He certainly had a following there. The Loop is a fairly successful station, even in the Chicago meat market. HB Late Night Bulletin Board command:JN *=* Journey to a SIG *=* *=* Public & Free Bulletin Board entered *=* Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C Press to abort Message: 66055 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit Chat Subject: Veteran's Day? Date: 05/28/90 Time: 18:53:59 All of those war holidays just seem to merge together, you know? Message: 66056 Author: $ John Cummings Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jeff/Max Date: 05/28/90 Time: 19:22:38 Hey, I kinda like Mad Max--I liked Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle, too, but Mad Max is not too bad. Matter of fact, my son is finishing up four years in Schweinfurt, W. Germany, and he has a similar opinion: to wit, that the E. Germans have bveen spoiled by forty years of Communism, and now they are lazy slobs who want the welfare state to take care of them. The worst of it is, according to my son, they drive the E. German car, the Trabanti, on the autobahn, at top speed or 55 miles per hour, and they don't move aside for a Porsche. Or even for my son's Mustang at 130 m.p.h. John C. Message: 66057 Author: $ John Cummings Category: Drug Talk Subject: Dean/ Drugs Date: 05/28/90 Time: 19:32:27 It makes a better argument if you DO give it some thought. I submit that substance abusers have a diminished capacity, and they commit not only a crime (by using) but an obscene fraud by pretending that they are straight when they work on those devices (or really, even if they drive street sweepers.) The key here is the substance abuse, and their lying about it. If they do use, they should be in positions which do not endanger the lives of people who trust them. The country has the right to test those people who are in a pohition to harm others, just as the country has the right to demand testing before issuing driver's licences, etc. Those who do not want the test should not drive or snort, or smoke, or shoot up,OR they should go somewhere where they are allowed to do so. I understand Columbia just elected a hard liner anti-drug president, though, so Dean, I don't know what to recommend. John C. Message: 66059 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: x and not x Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:16:33 "I came here for an arguement!" "No you didn't." Message: 66060 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: News Today Subject: DeConcini Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:22:49 Did anyone watch channel 3 News at 6pm this evening? Did you hear what Dennis said about his proposed anti-gun law? He said; "It's not an anti-gun law..it's an anti-drug law.." Funny, this SKS 7.62 x 39 is the funniest looking key of coke I ever did see. Right after that they interviewed my ugly mug. I taped it for prosperity when and if we go to a state of revolution..the cops and pro-goverment supression types will know who to kill first. I hope Dennis gets what is comming to him. Message: 66061 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: War! Subject: And YOU Date: 05/28/90 Time: 20:25:57 I really think anyone who complains about losing rights of gun ownership useage and associated gun genre should shut up after todays miserable showing. If you're too damn busy well you're too damn busy to keep your rights. Don;t squawk when they make ownership illegal..you definitely WERE NOT there today. Did you even call DeConcini's offices in Washington? Probably not eh? After all..it's a long distance call. Yellow bellied pile of gum bashers. Message: 66062 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Gary/Memorial/Vet Date: 05/28/90 Time: 21:44:27 Yes Gary, how silly of me to confuse the two. How could I forget the eleventh month, eleventh day, eleventh hour...... Sorry if I got carried away....but it was to honor people and not WAR! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66063 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: lines and points Date: 05/29/90 Time: 00:41:05 From the Penguin Dictionary of Mathematics: "Continuum (plural continua) A compact connected set: a set of elements between which a third [element in the same set] can always be inserted. The real numbers form a continuum. For a line stretching from an origin to infinity, every point on the line corresponds to a real number, and every real number corresponds to a point on the line. The points form a continuum in one dimension of space. Time can also be regarded as a continuum." Please take note of the phrase "the points form a continuum". The terms "compact" and "connected" have a very precise mathematical meaning. I'm still working on trying to understand them. I'll elucidate when I do. Message: 66064 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: open and closed sets Date: 05/29/90 Time: 00:52:40 From the same dictionary: "Closed set (of points) A set A is closed if it contains all its limit points. For example, the points corresponding to the real numbers equal to or greater than zero and equal to or less than 1 constitute a closed set." "Open set (of points) A set of points A is open if every point that is a member of A has a neighborhood completely in the set A. For example, the points corresponding to the real numbers greater than zero and less than one constitute an open set." Note, however, that this is not the same as an open/closed/partially open or closed interval. There is a key difference between containing all limit points and containing end points, as well as a key difference between not containing end points and all points having a neighborhood entirely in the set. An infinite plane, for example, is both open and closed. It contains all its points, and therefore its limit points, and so is closed. But every point on the plane has a neighborhood entirely in the set of points in the plane, and so it is also open. This assumes, of course, a planar universe. To illustrate the importance of the relative dimensions of a set (or subspace) and the space in which it is defined, take the set of real numbers greater than zero and less than one along the real number line. (CONT.) Message: 66065 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: CONT.(last) Date: 05/29/90 Time: 00:56:34 Now, this set clearly does not contain all of its limit points, chiefly, zero and one. In a 1 dimensional space it is open, because every point in the set has a neighborhood entirely in the set. It is not closed, either, because it does not contain all its limit points. Put it in a space of higher dimension, say, place the real number line in the complex plane, and the set is no longer open, because no point in the interval (0,1) has a neighborhood entirely within the set. The set is neither open nor closed. Message: 66066 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Answer! Subject: melissa/arg Date: 05/29/90 Time: 07:53:11 Oh, yes I did. Message: 66067 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Roger/arg Date: 05/29/90 Time: 09:58:26 No you didn't! Message: 66068 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Drug Talk Subject: Cummings Date: 05/29/90 Time: 10:34:03 A driver's license exam is a test of performance. A drug test is search and seizure without probable cause. One does not excuse the other. A performance based test for diminished capacity would serve to detect any substance abuse which affected people on the job, but it is not being pushed by the government because it would not serve their real agenda, big brother in the workplace. People who favor drug testing for everyone seem to be motivated more by a loathing of anyone who might be doing something on their own time that society disapproves of than by any real concern for safety. If the focus were really safety, as so many claim, then non-invasive measures which would assure safety would be touted for those who are in positions to cause great harm. Instead, massive chemical analysis is demanded for everyone. This demonstrates the true motive behind drug testing, it is control and intimidation. Drug testing sounds better the more you think about it only if what you really desire is a society conditioned to accept the assumption of guilt until proven innocent. See You Later, Dean H. Message: 66069 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mike C. Date: 05/29/90 Time: 10:43:15 I accept your criticism. I should have been there, but I stayed up late and didn't wake up until 10:30. I have written and called his office, and the impression I get is that they couldn't care less what Arizonan's think. A big turnout and television coverage might influence somebody somewhere, even if it probably won't be Dennis. I remember the big rally I went to a while back. There was a huge turnout from all over the state, and many great speakers, including the Attorney General and other politicians. The TV coverage focused on the worst dressed, least intelligible, attendees and carried none of the points made by the speakers at all. It was worthwhile for the contacts that were made and the people I registered to vote, but it gave me the impression that we can't expect to get our message out through the media. See You Later, Dean H. Message: 66070 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Answer! Subject: Melissa/arg Date: 05/29/90 Time: 11:08:16 I distinctly remember coming here for the express purpose of argumentation. Message: 66071 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: J.Beck Date: 05/29/90 Time: 16:07:49 First of all let me say I'm sorry for any words that might slip out Who the hell are you to tell me I'm insecure? Are you a phycology proffessor or what if you are that still doent make you the ultimate authority. That nickname was given to me by so dear friends a long time ago, and I happend to like it, so dont judge my damm intelligence, I am halfways educatted, and in the proccess of getting more of it. I resent your statements you made about me ie. how much does a person with a nickname like Mad Max know. Are you so smart that you can look down on a person just because of a nickname? Have you ever meet me? No I didnt think so, so dont say things you know nothing about. Now if you ever should be so fortunate as to meet me in person, then you can make a judgement about me. Well I better not say anything else, I'm to mad. Bye and see you all later T H E M A D M A X ( and proud of it ) Message: 66072 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Chit Chat Subject: Roddy Date: 05/29/90 Time: 16:30:08 Re: "Are "alcohol babies" okay?" I'm not sure what an "alcohol baby" is? I haven't heard that there was a problem on the level that there is with cocaine babies. In answer to your question, I would think that anything that would cause pain and suffering to a baby would be wrong. And I don't see abortion as a solution. I am aware of the cocaine problem around the turn of the century. One of the weekly news magazines had a big write up on it a while back. It was Insight. Message: 66073 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mad Max Date: 05/29/90 Time: 16:35:39 Re: "I am halfways educatted" Spelling obviously wasn't in the half you received! :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: Message: 66074 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Opposites Date: 05/29/90 Time: 16:57:31 Where would you place matter and energy? Motion and position? Momentum and Energy? Wave nature and particle nature? Past and present? Are these opposites or "contraries" or different aspects of the same central "thing." Mysticism, science, and religion are not seeking different truths. There is just one truth. There is no conflict between science and religion, just between new science and old science-wrapped-in-dogma. We need to think, in our Spiritual and in our Scientific search for truth, less about opposites and more about how what appear to be opposites are really different aspects of the same. Truth and falsehood my be as exclusive as waves and particles, but that is to say humans are excluded from seeing both at the same time, not that both do not exist. We can set up a lab to make electrons act like waves and another to make them act like particles, never both-at-once. Still they ARE both at once. Heisenberg may have been here. Truth and falshood are both aspects of the search for the attribute whose different faces we have named "Truth" and "Falsehood," still it is ONE attribute, not two. . /\\ . {@.@} . )"( Mike Message: 66075 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: Measurement Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:03:32 You are still trying to obtain the length of an interval by integrating the points along that interval instead of just subtracting the initial from the final condition. The points may represent rationals or irrationals, no matter, that has nothing to do with measuring the length of the interval at all. Points have NO dimension, you can't pile enough of them shoulder-to-shoulder to mean anything. I think that is where you are confusing yourself. Thanks for the info on the Lebesque Integral. I am 20 years away from my last ADvanced Analysis class in college and admit to having forgotten much. I captured your post and will study and respond as I can later. Still, don't try to "account for" the length of an interval by "accounting for" all the points on the line. That would be an endless search. Mike Message: 66076 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Pie versus Pi Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:08:30 Yes, what you say may be true, but it was a tasty piece of fresh peach pie. I thought we were talking about Euclidean points. We weren't? Gosh, if you want to get non-Eucledian on me we can do anything we want to, all in how we define things, right? Do "your" points have a limit of "closeness" or neighborhood around which or into which other points are forbidden? Interesting... well, back to the pie... Hmmmmm I can sure differentiate between home made and store bought! . /\\ . {@.@} . )"( Mike Message: 66077 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Jeff Lochansky Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:22:33 Whatever. The point is, if you kick a dog, you're asking to get bitten. I don't like people telling me what to post (or what not to post) so long as the topic is within the bounds of what is allowed by the sysop for that particular area. You don't like people telling you you're insecure or childish, I don't like people telling me to shut up because I'm such a bloody bore. Message: 66078 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: alchohol babies Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:23:24 Fetal alcohol syndrome is the third leading cause of infant defects. Cocaine doesn't even come close. After all, there are far more alcoholics than there are coke addicts. Message: 66079 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mike/opposites Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:29:25 You give me complete, specific definitions of those things and I will tell you how they should be classified. Certainly, things that *appear* to be "opposites" might not in fact be "opposites," but then, we're talking about contraries and contradictories, not pseudo-opposites. Message: 66080 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mike/points Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:34:00 I suggest that you reread my messages on continua. There is nothing new or controversial about the definitions I gave. See also my next posts. Points in and of themselves have no dimension. No finite or enumerably infinite aggregation of points has dimension. A non-enumerably infinite, compact, connected set, such as the set of real numbers, HAS dimension. It is a continuum in one dimension. Which part of the real line is not a point? Message: 66081 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mike/Euclidian Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:35:22 We were talking about Euclidian points. That is why your pie analogy was inappropriate. Message: 66082 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: Continua Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:45:08 Continuum: a compact connected set. The real numbers form a continuum. For a line stretching from an origin to infinity, every point on the line corresponds to a real number and every real number corresponds to a point on the line. The points form a continuum in one dimension. There is no part of the interval which is not a real number, and therefore it is composed of points, packed in a compact, connected manner. The concept of zero magnitude does not preclude continuity in this case. Connected: a set A is connected if there do not exist disjoint nonempty subsets of A (X and Y) such that the union of X and Y = A, and such that X contains no limit points of Y and Y contains no limit points of X. Intuitively, this means that the set is all in one piece. Two sets are disjoint if they have no common members (that is, if the intersection of the two sets is the null set). I can think of many pairs of disjoint nonempty subsets of the real number set R whose sum is R. One such pair are the subsets X and Y of the rationals and the irrationals. Another pair are the subsets X and Y of the algebraic numbers and the transcendental numbers. However, in each case, X contains limit points of Y, and vice versa. In fact, in the first case (and I believe in the second) *every* point of X is a limit point of Y and the reverse is also true. Therefore, R is connected. CONT. Message: 66083 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: continua (CONT.) Date: 05/29/90 Time: 17:50:42 The set of rationals (S*1) on the other hand is not connected. For example, the set S*1 can be divided into two subsets consisting of those rationals less than the square root of two, and those rationals greater than the square root of two. These subsets sum to S*1, they are nonempty, and they are disjoint, and neither one contains a limit point of the other. Therefore, S*1 is disconnected. The set of rationals is, however, *dense* in itself because every neighborhood of any point of the set contains another point of the set (in other words, it is a set composed entirely of limit points, sometimes called a perfect set). Compact: a set S is compact if every infinite subset of S (every subset of S with an infinite number of points) has a limit point in the set S. Obviously, the set R of real numbers is compact: every infinite subset of R must have a limit point in the set, because R is perfect. Message: 66084 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mike/perception Date: 05/29/90 Time: 19:49:33 I think that your difficulty comes from the attempt to use common sense (rules of the finite realm) in the realm of the infinite. Common sense dictates that size is a concept which belongs to the finite realm -- that one does not speak of relative size between infinities. Yet I can demonstrate that some infinities are bigger than others, and furthermore, that there is an infinite hierarchy of infinities. Cantor's paradox intrudes, however, at that point. Message: 66085 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: B.Thornburg Date: 05/29/90 Time: 21:48:01 Hey gus, you know how that is with use dumb krauts, I just forget to much english when I'm mad, all my thinking is done in german. Have you ever tried writing in english and thinking in german? Let me tell you it is not easy. But I'll get better, I promise. 3 or 4 more years of college should do it. Later on THE MAD MAX Message: 66086 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: J Cummings/answer Date: 05/29/90 Time: 21:53:58 Hey dude, I'm glad you like my nickname. You are totally right about those east Germans, my mom just talked to me a couple of days ago from the BRD and said it was getting unberable over there. I guess the Russians just got sick of footing the bill for those east germans, and figured us dumb west germans would bail them out of the mess they where in. Believe me she tells me not all roses smell good in Germany anymore. Tell me, have you ever been in the BRD? I shure hope they get those east germans of the autobahn. well thats if for now THE MAD MAX Message: 66087 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: My spelling Date: 05/29/90 Time: 22:00:37 I shure am sorry I spell so bad. Like we say in Germany: I speak english very well, aber es geht noch nicht so schnell. What that means is I got my education in germany, but I'll try to get more here. Since I am a disabled american vet (believe it or not) the VA told me they were going to pay for my education. So I'll be able to spell better in about 3-4 years. See you all later THE MAD MAX Message: 66088 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: J.Beck Date: 05/29/90 Time: 22:03:34 I was not trying to tell you not to write posts, I was trying to get other people interested in an other topic. By the way I shoot dogs that bite me, dead Later dude THE MAD MAX Message: 66089 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jeff Lochansky Date: 05/29/90 Time: 22:29:59 Hey Jeff... Do NOT fret over your English spelling. i think you are doing rather well for a new user. I spell very poorly myself, and have learned to just ignor the jabs while I keep trying. Just don't let it get you down. As for your "MAD MAX", I as SysOP have NO problem with that handle. As for subject matter... That is up to the users for the most part. If you have something you wish to talk about, just start posting an if anyone is interested, they will or may respond. However, you should never call another person's posts boring because YOU don't find it stimulating. Just learn to use the [S]kip key. Just remember, You can't please all the people, all the time. And most important, just take things with a grain of salt and have fun. Hope to see you at the next GT (Get-Together) *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66090 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Chit Chat Subject: Gun rally Date: 05/29/90 Time: 23:28:05 Well, I considered going down to Dennis'. One thing that sort of put me off was the suggestion that there would be some brick-throwing. However, I really didn't plan to go, but did think about it several times. Message: 66091 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Brick-throwing Date: 05/30/90 Time: 00:46:37 It was said in jest I am sure. The 'cop-out' however, sorta puts me off. I guess your 'rights' are not worth the effort? *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66092 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Weapon Basic Date: 05/30/90 Time: 00:49:47 This Saturday.... I would like to know who will be going that would like to borrow a weapon and just how much ammo I have to make up for the Saturday class. If you are just going for the morning lecture, you will not need a weapon. clif- Message: 66093 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer! Subject: Cliff / Dog Date: 05/30/90 Time: 01:27:41 B. Dog is not much unlike many in this and other States who want to care but can't. They are indeed incapable. Until it affects someone personally, it will mean nothing to them. In that fashion, I think anyone who doesn't care should at least be honest about it. There's a poem I ran accross a while back. I fail to find it now when it would be appropriate, but it was words to the effect of; "They came and took the Germans today...ohh well, I'm not German anyway" "They came and took the jews today..ohh well, I'm not Jewish either.." "They came and took the Gun owners today..ohh well, I don't like guns.." "They came and took the Afghanni's today..ohh well, I'm American.." "They came for me today and I tried to protest..but there was no one left to march in my parade." No, I don't see more than two or three people besides myself with enough reason to figure out what can and ultimately will happen if they pass this bill. Sure, it's like cream and sugar now..that's the way they sell lemons. Deny it's even a gun law. DeConcini lied on National TV the other night..how many are raising hell about it? No. I wrote my letters. I made my calls and I stood my ground and I will live to hear the day these mindless sheep bleating for freedom and begging for the power to regain it. Only then it's much much too late. And all the "I told you so's" wont put America back together again. Message: 66094 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer! Subject: Brick throwing Date: 05/30/90 Time: 01:34:02 Yes, it was made in jest...and if it wasn't, if you don't feel strong enough about your constitutional rights being ripped up in front of your eyes to throw a brick, then don't buy a gun either. That kind of spineless excuse is exactly what the Senators are hoping for. My old man was right. He said the crap in the gene pool would float to the surface, yellow belly side up. They'd croak and cringe and ask for legislative hand-outs because they can't handle the workload of generations before them. If you're too yellow to hold a sign, voice your opinion in full view of the public and your detractors, go swim back to your deep dark hole and stay there. The next ten years promises to be a real dandy decade... Message: 66096 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Mike Date: 05/30/90 Time: 09:25:15 Funny how Dean was saying that the media always puts on these zelots to make the anti-gun control side look crazy. Then I hear that that Channel 3 picked you to interview, the "just in jest" brick thrower who now is stating that one is spineless unless they do so. I didn't know about the rally/protest until it was happening but the reason I didn't go and would not go is because I don't want to be associated with people like you who sound like they are ready to shoot anyone who doesn't agree with them. Maybe you are kidding, Mike, but I would not feel safe alone with you and your gun. (Note: I didn't not say I didn't want to be associated with Cliff or Sandy or Dean or Beau. I only singled out one person for his behavior) Message: 66097 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: MIke Date: 05/30/90 Time: 09:26:06 And by the way, if you think my writing is "garbage" why not skip my messages? That's what I do with yours. Message: 66098 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: GT's Date: 05/30/90 Time: 10:36:05 I hear a lot about GT'S, where are they and when? I would shure like to attend. I'd love to meet some of the folks I spend so much time talking to. See you all later THE MAD MAX Message: 66099 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit Chat Subject: LAST Date: 05/30/90 Time: 11:18:15 Work is progressing on a video compilation of past GT's. I would like to host a GT at my place to present it when it is done. I don't know for sure when that will be, but I will keep you posted. See You Later, Dean H. Message: 66100 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Melissa Dee Date: 05/30/90 Time: 12:25:30 I'm not advocating throwing bricks into windows. Since you're incapable of responsding rationally due to your emotional handicap, you should re-read my posts before attempting to put words in my mouth. Your inference of zealotry is about standard for someone with no idea of what was said, the reasons behind it or the cuase for which it has all been done. If I'm to be branded a zealot by a porn Queen that's o.k.. I just consider the source is all. If I'm branded a zealot for voicing my opinion on a news cast that's just fine as well...I at least have the intestinal fortitude to do so , unlike Melissa here who instead of listening before she mouths off about something automatically labels it without knowing anything about it. You are a mis-informed zealot yourself. I know the reason for which I stood, you, however, have made a totally un-informed attack based soley on presumption and assumptions. That is zealotry. This is what our society is made up of. A bunch of wheezing and frightened flaming liberals who strike out blindly at anything which threatens their lifestyle. Imagined forces of evil out to steal their cabbage patch dolls and shoot them with semi-automatic weapons. You're right about one thing, Melissa; You should be afraid of me with my gun..because I will use it against anyone who attacks me with like force. I'm no push-over and I *will* keep my freedom. Keep your fear, its the only thing you have that is real. Message: 66101 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer! Subject: Melissa Date: 05/30/90 Time: 12:36:21 My opinion of your messages remains unchanged. Nor can you do anything about it. Welcome to America. Message: 66102 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Pseudo semi opposite Date: 05/30/90 Time: 12:54:14 Well, I really can't define the prerequisite information to discuss the Hiesenberg Uncertanity Principle with you on this BBS. I am limited as to time, number of posts, and the like here. There is a free public BBS where we can have this conversation with unlimited posts, 99 lines long, a good editor, and no fee. 938-6866. COnsider this an invitation. Mike Message: 66103 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Continua - ation Date: 05/30/90 Time: 12:56:48 I agree with your definition of a continua and of the connected set of real numbers being one. No problem there. Doesn't that answer your original question? Is the question still on the floor? I think you answered yourself totally and quite well. No arguement here at all. Congratulations. . /\\ . {@.@} . )"( Mike Message: 66104 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: Peachy Analogies Date: 05/30/90 Time: 13:05:35 Perhaps not inappropriate, just not well-stated. To integrate the function to get the area under the curve is appropriate, right? That operation moves us from the one-dimension of the line as a limit to each infinitesmal slice of the area into the area itself; from one to two dimensions. Integration always does that, moves us "up" one level. The top view of the pie sliceing operation has lines to define the limits of the area of the top surface of my too-small piece. Same.. good analogy... good pie, too. You seemed to be trying to integrate the points along a line (no dimension) and come up with the length of the interval (1 dimension). I don't see how that can be done as the points do not carry any information or functional relationship to each other. The piece of pie does carry flavor, juice, pieces of crust and fruit, etc. Now we are getting somewhere! Otherwise we are packing points between each other all day only to find that as many as "fill" the entire interval can STILL fit between the closest two with room for a billion more to spare, not even having to squeeze them at all, then we start over and still don't need vaseline. Points! they only label a location. Is this an arguement or a discussion? . /\\ . {@.@} . )"( Mike Message: 66105 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jeff Date: 05/30/90 Time: 15:43:23 Re: "Cocaine doesn't even come close." I take your word for it that there are more alcohol babies then cocaine babies. It makes sense that there are more people doing booze then people doing cocaine. But, cocaine babies is a major problem today. I would say the number is well into the hundreds if not the thousands. The newspaper article I read probably gave numbers, but I don't remember them. Message: 66106 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: War! Subject: Jeff Lochansky Date: 05/30/90 Time: 19:02:59 Bah. I blow cigar smoke in your face, sonny boy. Now then, why don't you put on your Batman jammies, hunker down in front of the boob-tube, and watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for the 437th time. Message: 66107 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: Uncertainty principl Date: 05/30/90 Time: 19:16:33 Well, I have a general understanding of it. In effect, the observer has an affect on that which he is observing, and therefore certain measurements are necessarily innacurate. In particular, I believe that on a quantum level it is impossible to get accurate (uninfluenced by observation) measurements of the velocity AND position of particles. I am not sure, however, how this would extend to our discussion of classifications and logic. Unfortunately, and I am by no means implying that YOU of all people would commit such a heinous act, the uncertainty principle, along with various other relativity related concepts, have been stolen from their scientific niche and applied innapropriately to various mystical concepts. This seems to be commonplace: a (relatively) new and somewhat obscure scientific concept is developed for a highly specific application, and metaphysicians, mystics, and assorted other quacks, recognizing the potential of a concept which is both respected by the establishment and commonly misunderstood, apply the concept unscientifically toward illigitimate ends. Message: 66108 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mike/pie Date: 05/30/90 Time: 19:23:55 I have your message printed out and will give it due consideration before replying. At this moment I am preparing to see a 7:50pm movie (Bird On A Wire.) Message: 66109 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: $tatus users only Subject: Roger/66070 Date: 05/30/90 Time: 19:31:05 AHA! Thotso. :) Message: 66110 Author: $ Daryl Westfall Category: $tatus users only Subject: Dean/66099 Date: 05/30/90 Time: 19:34:53 Would be nice to include the video for the HVGT, but the problem is that it hasn't been shot yet, and when it does, it will already be too late. CHR--> :) Message: 66111 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: War! Subject: J.Beck Date: 05/30/90 Time: 19:53:40 Gee, I'm past mutant ninja turtles, my moomy told me there was to much violence. All she lets me watch now is US ARMY Ranger training films and movies about homocidale maniacs. I'll gladly trad you my batman Jammies for your Captain Kangoro outfit. Gee, I've gots to go, my mommy is calling and telling me to put back my Mack 10, otherwise she wouldn't let me play with my Uzi no more. Later on sucker THE MAD MAX Message: 66112 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: J. Beck & Lochansky Date: 05/30/90 Time: 20:14:48 Hey guys, what gives? I want you BOTH as users! Ditto for the M. Dee & Carter feud. Geesh, Only SysOp's are suppose to be GrUmPy! Message: 66113 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: In search of Subject: ... umbrellas Date: 05/30/90 Time: 21:53:44 Well, the last time that it rained for a few days in Phoenix, I thought to myself "no sweat, I ripped off JT's umbrella when I was in DC, I'll just use that." However, it had DISAPPEARED! It was *no where to be found* in the house. All of the usual hiding places, even the logical hiding places, were lacking umbrellas. Today I went sailing, and left one set of keys (with the house key) in the car, and kept a 'spare' key (just the car key) on my person. Well, I couldn't find the keys when we were done, so I just blew them off. I couldn't find them when we got home, so I just blew them off. Then, through some real bad luck, we got locked out of the house *except for the car keys which the car had stolen*. In my long search to find them (yes, the car finally 'fessed up), I came across: JT's umbrella. Too bad that he lives in NYC now or I could give it back to him in a few weeks. Message: 66114 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: SYSOP request Date: 05/30/90 Time: 22:17:10 I guess your right. I'm sorry didnt mean to offend anybody. I was just trying to outdo him. Guess I got caried away a bit you know how that is with use dumb folks( just kiding). I promise not to do it again because I enjoy your board emensly ( propably spelled wrong(so what)). I think Apollo is by far the best BBS in town and I wouldnt want to be locked out. Hey keep up the great work Cliff (no I'm not kissing up).I prpably wouldnt complain about those , what I thought was boring messages if I had more than 300 baud But that might be solved in a vew days ( I think I found a good deal on a new 383/st-16 awsome machine I'm in love with it) So wish me luck that my credit rating is good enough to get it. Honestly sorry THE MAD MAX Message: 66115 Author: John Groseclose Category: Chit Chat Subject: Beck vs. Lochansky? Date: 05/30/90 Time: 22:34:44 I haven't seen anything like this since it was James Taranto and Nick Ianuzzi vs. MYSELF! Hmmm. Seems like things don't change much, but the names do. BTW: Cliff, you don't happen to have the date I first logged on here, do you? This was the first board I ever logged on, and I'd like to mention it in the WAMUG newsletter article I'm writing. ABTW: WAMUG = Whittier Area Macintosh Users Group John Groseclose Message: 66116 Author: $ Steve MacGregor Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mike/Continua Date: 05/31/90 Time: 02:03:23 Actually, it was not a continua that was defined. It was a continuum. It's the same as someone saying he has a criteria for something, when in reality it's only a criterion. Or saying he's observed such-and-such a phenomena, when it was a phenomenon. Or saying he wants a geese for Christmas dinner instead of a turkey, when he really wants a goose. =(O,O)= Hoot! Message: 66117 Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi Category: Chit Chat Subject: Groseclose Date: 05/31/90 Time: 04:37:56 What a dweeb. Message: 66118 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Answer! Subject: peachy integration Date: 05/31/90 Time: 07:57:21 Integration from a point to a line is easy. it can be represented by the integral: x1 ( dx ) x0 Message: 66119 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Chit Chat Subject: beau/umbrellas Date: 05/31/90 Time: 08:00:15 You have discovered one of very few cosmic principles. In order to find a lost object, one must not look for it. Message: 66120 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Chit Chat Subject: Steve/ua Date: 05/31/90 Time: 08:02:00 But I feel like such a fool when I ask for datum. Message: 66121 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: John Groseclose Date: 05/31/90 Time: 08:28:24 I looked you up in the database and I see you joined Apollo as a $tatus user 01/26/85. You were 13 at that time. I am sure you did use the system earlier, but that is the oldest date I have on record for you. I hope this helps! clif- Message: 66122 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Vote Subject: what next? Date: 05/31/90 Time: 08:48:56 The current Vote should be ended soon. For those of you who seem reluctant to use the ote feature, I really wish you would try it anyway. I guarantee your selection is PRIVATE. Anyone have a GOOD suggestion for a new ote? Should OLD otes be stored somewhere for future viewing, in addition to being placed as a new message on this lic board? I am looking for input on this ote cmd for $tatus users, as I would like to see more of you participate. Apollo can be more fun when more of you add your two-cents worth. Apollo would like to build up its membership, as we plan being around a long time..... A VERY long time. For those of you who use other systems as well, please post plugs for Apollo BBS where ever you can if the SysOp of that system allows it. If Apollo is not listed in their ther Systems list, please ask them to do so. I am always pleased to list ther systems in mine when asked to do so. MOST SysOps do this with no problem. If you are reading this and you are not YET a member, please consider joining the Apollo Family if you LIKE what you see. However, if you still choose not too, this is fine, all we want is you to have fun. *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66123 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit Chat Subject: Daryl Date: 05/31/90 Time: 08:58:22 No problem, we just run the existing tape on one monitor, while recording the event and outputting the new version to another monitor. See You Later, Dean H. Message: 66124 Author: $ Dean Hathaway Category: Chit Chat Subject: J.T. Date: 05/31/90 Time: 09:04:09 I still need to get a tape of that J.T. interview on television the other night for my Apollo In The News segment. Does anyone have it recorded? See You Later, Dean H. Message: 66125 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: War! Subject: Mike Date: 05/31/90 Time: 09:41:09 I am responding emotionally? Please! Your testostorone(SP?) is spewing everywhere. You just proved my point beautifully. Thank you. And thanks for the warning. Me and my 1st ammendment right will be sure to stay clear of your second. Message: 66126 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Cliff Date: 05/31/90 Time: 09:43:58 How's this for a vote: "Which is more objectional in our society A. A Gun Zealot B. A Porn Queen C. A Dweeb Message: 66127 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Answer! Subject: last on Dee's Vote Date: 05/31/90 Time: 10:28:46 D. A SysOp Just what is a 'Dweeb' anyway? Message: 66128 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: A Christmas Goose Date: 05/31/90 Time: 20:35:33 Thank you again for correcting my plura in Greek-derivatived worda. I have only eaten a goosum once. It was kind of fatty, but that made the meat juicey. I usually like to have a nice ham on Christmas, but my mom and wife make turkeys and roast beef, too. We have a choice of meata. Do you like Christmas Goose? . /\\ . {@.@} . )"( Mike Message: 66129 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: dx Date: 05/31/90 Time: 20:38:54 Explain the meaning of the integral from x0 to x1 of dx. How's that end up a line or anything? I get the integral from x0 to x1 of f(x)dx to be the area under the curve just fine. Wouldn't the integral of just dx be just x? Teach me here, Roger, I'm listening. x1 ( Mike(x)dx ) x0 Message: 66130 Author: Mike Middleton Category: War! Subject: Mike M or C? Date: 05/31/90 Time: 20:43:19 I realize that "Mike" here means Mike Carter, but I always have to figure it out and since I totally disagree with his position on keeping guns available in the hands of the insecure and immature, it bothers me slightly. Now if I jump in here and take my stand totally in favor of resonable and much-needed gun control, AND I am also a "Mike" won't that really make a pretty mess? Wwll, maybe a pseudonym DOES make sense sometimes. Sign me, The Dancing Teddy Bear who hates guns....Teddy Bear for short. Message: 66131 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Mike M Date: 05/31/90 Time: 21:36:06 Why not just refer to you as Middleton? Message: 66132 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: "feud" ?? Date: 05/31/90 Time: 21:59:24 I think we're exchanging semi-friendly banter. Message: 66133 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: Jeff L. Date: 05/31/90 Time: 22:01:02 Nah, don't be intimidated into APOLLO-gizing. Message: 66134 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: Missing the point Date: 05/31/90 Time: 22:14:20 (Hyuk! Hyuk!) Yes, you can pack points between each other "all day" and still have enough room for a billion more. But here's the rub: we aren't talking about a billion, nor a billion to the billionth power, nor even an enumerable infinity of points. We are talking about a non-enumerable infinity of points, and, equally important, all of those points between any two points belong to the compact, connected set of real numbers. It is this non-enumerably *infinite* process of packing points which, taken by themselves or in finite or enumerably infinite aggregates, have zero dimension, which produces a one-dimensional continuum. Sort of a case of the quantum generating the continuous, to play fast and loose with words. Shades of the multi-faceted oneness of which you spoke. The number of points in an enumerably infinite set, such as the set of whole numbers or the set of rationals, for that matter, is the cardinal number "aleph-null." The number of subsets of a set of n elements is 2^n. The number of subsets of an enumerably infinite set is therefore 2^aleph-null, or aleph-1. This is the cardinality of the set of real numbers (and, it can consequently be shown, the number of irrationals). It is a transfinite number. It is generally believed, though not proven in a strict mathematical sense, that there are no transfinites between aleph-null and aleph-1. This is known as the Continuum Hypothesis. I can understand, however, why this makes no sense to you. At one stage, it was the same way for me. At a subsequent stage, I could rationally comprehend the definitions, but I had not achieved gestalt. It now makes intuitive sense to me. Message: 66135 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: integrating points Date: 05/31/90 Time: 22:22:36 Integrating a point set to find the length of an interval is precisely what a Lebesgue integral does. As you said, integration always moves us up one level. It is not always possible perform such an integration. For the class of sets which are additive sets, which are non-enumerable and discontinuous, and which due to their additive nature are *measurable*, it is possible when the integral limit does not tend to infinity. This is a somewhat complex subject, and one which I have not yet fully grasped even at a fundamental level, but I am willing to discuss it to the best of my ability. At this point, however, I would prefer to do a little more reading. I am also tired ot typing. Message: 66136 Author: $ Steve MacGregor Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mann/Datum Date: 06/01/90 Time: 01:11:17 If you feel like a fool when asking for a datum, then ask for some data. You might get all the data you want. How many data do you need? =(u,u)= Yawn! Message: 66137 Author: $ Steve MacGregor Category: Chit Chat Subject: Middleton/Geese Date: 06/01/90 Time: 01:12:15 I've never eaten a goose before, but I had a duck once. That was greasy enough. =(O,O)= Hoot! Message: 66138 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: Dee Date: 06/01/90 Time: 07:01:13 OK, you can call me Middleton if I can call you Dee. Ray Message: 66139 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Gestalt Date: 06/01/90 Time: 07:13:47 If you have acheived gestalt, then what's the question. It seemed to me that YOU were getting pretty mystical with trying to either "pave" the number line with rational and irrational Euclidian points (which we agree is useless) or else you were trying to pave the Universe with classes the things that were or were not classes of themselves (spoons and not spoons). I was perhaps not clear enough in stating that Euclidian points are not "paving squares." Roger offered the integral from x0 to x1 of plain old dx. Well, dx IS "paving squares." dx is NOT a Euclidian point, but the limit as epsilon approaches zero (I tries a new thread named e -> 0, but it didn't "set" well with you). Classes of spoons and not spoons are also poor ways to try to "pave" existence. I also tried to point out that Heisenberg (you did not state the HP correctly) showed us that what appear to be opposite things are really the same, but we are just prevented from seeing or sampling from more than one nature at a time. I am not confused, and I am quite willing to measure the length of an interval by just subtracting the end points coordinates (which is the easy way to do Roger's intergation suggestion). If there is a gestalt to be gained from trying to understand the duality of existence it is this, that is an illusion. Truth and falsehood, particles and waves, spoons and Not-spoons, rationals and irrational, male and female, life and death; all these are not opposites that can be joined like puzzle pieces to accrue to the pie-of-life. These are different aspects of the same central Truth. Greek thought does not offer the answer, even if you have not stuck to the question. Mike Message: 66140 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Answer! Subject: integral dx Date: 06/01/90 Time: 07:36:14 The integral of dx from x0 to x1 is x1 - x0 or the length of a line from x0 to x1 the indefinite integral of dx is x + C, which is the equation of a line whose slope is 1 at offset is x + C, the equation of line slope 1 at offset C. In general the integral of kdx produces a line of slope k at offset C. No mystery. Going the other way, the differential of Kx + C is Kdx. Message: 66141 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Chit Chat Subject: steve/mucho data Date: 06/01/90 Time: 07:40:08 I HATE saying how many data do you need ? I'd rather say how MUCH data do you need ? Of course when looking at a core dump, I guess I could say how MUCH data do you need. Message: 66142 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Middleton Date: 06/01/90 Time: 12:34:20 "I totally disagree with his position on keeping guns available in the hands of the insecure and immature, it bothers me slightly." So you're an advocate of deciding who is mature and secure enough to own a weapon? Will that be a federally mandated or state mandated task force that decides who gets to own one? There is a law now that prevents anyone under the age of 21 (The legal age of drinking et al) from buying a pistol of any description. My question is, how does one judge anothers level of maturity or security? ANother would be ; How does that affect the ability or the legality of owning a weapon? Are you then an advocate of limiting freedoms to those judged soley on their demonstrated and federally certified maturity and security ? Just what is your idea of a free society? P.S. My position isn't limited to the straw-man you make...I'm in favor of the un-adulterated , untouched and un modified constitution of the United States. With that comes responsibility...the fact that some people aren't responsible is not grounds to change the Constitution like you're advocating. Message: 66143 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer! Subject: Melissa Date: 06/01/90 Time: 12:44:48 But you're not keeping your 1st amendment rights separate from my 2nd. You're inferring that I'll use my 2nd ammendment rights to silence your 1st. You couldn't be more totally wrong. That lie is being perpetrated by a lot of people who are so near sighted about guns that they fear anyone owning them. The media hasn't helped much either sadly enough. Your vicious self-serving style of vindication is a result of several years of me-first attitudes being permitted in politics and in society. The blame here is on everyone. Control on society isn't dependant upon the tools which they use to be disruptive, but they themeselves as dishonest creatures of hate. Instead of gun control, people control. If we're going to control anything, it would be better to mandate moral teaching than to ban anything. Drugs have been banned. DWI is banned Rape is banned Murder is banned I guess all these bans are working so we'd better ban guns too eh? Message: 66144 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Free Spirit Ent. Date: 06/01/90 Time: 14:27:19 I found a nice little store that had all sorts of used hardware. I saw a TRS 80 mod I, A Sanyo CPM setup, Apple II's, IBM clones, Atari ST hardware, Dumb terminals, printers, monitors... and all sorts of other used and hard to find equipment. The General Manager (Chris Wiley) was also very nice and easy to chat with. The place is called 'Free Spirit Enterprises Inc. and is located at 15820 N. 35th Ave, suite 4 (just north of Greenway on the west side of the street. Phone number 843-6046 Tell him you saw it on Apollo BBS! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66145 Author: Mike Middleton Category: War! Subject: Unadulterated death Date: 06/01/90 Time: 15:13:01 There is no such thing as a "pure unadulterated Constitution of the United States." That is just a patriotic ruse to try and paint those who advocate gun control as somehow anti-American. The Constitution is and always a living and changing document, able to be amended and intrepreted for the times at hand. I suggest a good way to tell who is and who is not mature and secure enough to own a gun... those who have no desire to own one are the only ones mature enough. I can sure think of a few safer ways those with deep-seated feelings of inadequacy could try and compensate. How about lifting a pickup truck with big springs and a dozen shock absorbers. That would let you feel like a "big man" without the possibility of killing someone or a fatal or maiming accident. You could also consider wearing tee shirts with successful sports teams names on them... seems to work for other immature and insecure types. Take every gun you own and dispose of them. You don't need them to feel grown up and those around you don't need the danger they represent. There is far more power in humble service and loving submission than in every gun ever made put together. Think about it. Mike (Middleton) Message: 66146 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Last Date: 06/01/90 Time: 16:36:50 You think the Constitution should be changed from time to time... So, why don't we modify the freedom of religion so that it is, 'State controlled and approved.' Freedom of speech should also be changed to just include the Sunday funnies and only if they don't poke fun at the government. All kidding aside, the freedom you now enjoy was obtained by the bravery of people not fearing guns, but people who knew how to use them as tools. Cowards like yourself.... hid under the bed while MEN spilled their blood to get you these freedoms. And you want to change the freedoms you don't happen to like.... UP YOURS! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66147 Author: $ John Cummings Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mad Max/literacy Date: 06/01/90 Time: 19:06:02 Jeff/Mad Max: Willkommmen an den Apollo BBS! Es freut mich noch einmal Deutsch zu lesen. Und von einem echtigen Deutschen, sogar! Ich bin drei yahre in Berlin gewesen, neunzehnhundert zwei und fuenfzig bis vier und fuenfzig. Ich habe es geliebt. Damals, in jenen tagen, habe ich wirklich Deutsch sprechen koennen. Sie werden nastuerlich verstehen, in den passenden achtund dreissig yahre, ich habe beinahe meine ganze Deutsche Zunge vergessen und verloren. I still speak a bit of Spanish, tho--use it in Mexico. Most Mexicans are kind and polite--they don't make fun of my broken Spanish. Some Americans make fun of foreign accents, I notice, nicht wahr? You'll find this a really good board. There are some narrow minded bigots with visegrip brains and null acht fuenfzehn minds, argumentative and low intelligence. There are also some very intelligent, sharp witty people who agree with me. Rely on Sysop, he's great. John C. Message: 66148 Author: $ John Cummings Category: Chit Chat Subject: Sysop/guns Date: 06/01/90 Time: 19:20:56 Hey, Sysop, well said! A little emotional, perhaps, bvut right on! I've noticed that the people who want to do away with guns are almost always people who have never been trained to use them or have used them in defense of the liberty we have. Liberty is not free: brave men's blood was spilled to get it, and to keep it. Those who think it is not worth fighting for will lose it. John C. Message: 66149 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: BASIC Gun & Law Date: 06/01/90 Time: 22:46:34 For you users coming to the class tomorrow (Saturday), be sure to pack a lunch or bring munchies. Margarett brings cold soda, but that's 50 cents a 'Pop'... ha ha ha ha... (not funny?) SysOp Sandy will be there as one of the weapons instructers, and I will be there to get in the way. We leave from my place at 8am sharp.....(if you don't already know the way). If you go to the range on your own, we are meeting at 'Practical Pistol', Ben Avery (Black Canyon) shooting range, north on I-17. A Quote: "On every question of the Constitution let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson Message: 66150 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Carter Date: 06/01/90 Time: 23:32:05 "That lie is being perpetrated by a lot of people who are so near sighted about guns that they fear anyone owning them." No, Mike, I fear YOU owning one. It's not guns that kill people - it's people who kill people, right? Just like drugs ABUSE hurts people, not the drug itself. You don't even know my position on guns, never asked. You just ASS ume I am a "bleeding heart liberal" and start ranting. If you actually would like a debate, rather than a put down session, I will be glad to participate. Until then... "I came here for an arguement" "No, you didn't"... Message: 66151 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mike M. Date: 06/02/90 Time: 01:01:57 What exactly does "pave" mean, in this context? The gestalt does not alter my initial problem: How is it that the measure of a non-enumerable, discontinuous set is the same as that of the interval in which the set resides? You have never begun to approach this question, much less the answer, because you evidently cannot comprehend the concept of a continuum, in the mathematical sense. I have explained this in four or five messages, and I am beginning to suspect you of obscurantism. I do not think that there is anything mystical in the contemplation of a logical paradox, so long as one does not impute special powers to paradoxes, as you are wont to do, by spouting mindless babble about the oneness of the universe. When you start insisting that true and false, two mutually exclusive contradictories, are the same thing in different guises, you have surely stepped off the cliff of rationality and into the abyss of unreason, since you have absolutely no logical basis upon which to make such a claim. As for integration, I have tried to explain that the Lebesgue integral is no less a limiting sum than a Riemann integral -- to no avail. Your statement about the duality of existence being an illusion, and that everything is part of a central Truth (your capitalization) is very high-sounding. But then, that's what mystics specialize in, isn't it; vague, bombastic rhetoric which aspires to truth but never manages to escape the morass of its own self-contradictory, poorly defined, and unverifiable assertions, which are frequently so unintelligible that it is impossible to ascertain exactly what is being asserted. You are wasting my time. Message: 66152 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: guns/Mike M. Date: 06/02/90 Time: 01:07:40 Once again, some very pretty rhetoric. I suppose that if we lived in the best of all possible worlds, there would be something in what you said. The fact is, we live among predators and those who are unwilling to act against them are more vulnerable than those who ARE willing to act against them. Guns are merely one tool, to be applied in appropriate cases. For someone who believes that duality is an illusion, you certainly seem to have bought into some rather simplistic dichotomies. Message: 66153 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Chit Chat Subject: uncertainty principl Date: 06/02/90 Time: 01:21:56 "It is impossible to determine with accuracy both the position and the momentum of a particle (e.g. an electron) simultaneously." Momentum is a function of mass and *velocity*. Mass, in relativistic terms, is a function of rest mass, the speed of light, and the *velocity* of the particle. My definition was NOT incorrect. The act of observation of such a particle makes the aforementioned measurements unpredictable. Now, observation does not affect rest mass. Observation does not affect the speed of light. Observation CAN affect velocity. It is therefore obvious that the principle can be stated in terms of position and velocity, as well as position and momentum, since one is a partial function of the other, and the other variables are invariant under observation. Message: 66154 Author: $ Steve MacGregor Category: Chit Chat Subject: More Uncertainty Date: 06/02/90 Time: 03:27:26 From what I understand of the Uncertainty Principle, a particle does not even *have* both a definite position and a definite momentum. That's not the same as saying that you simply cannot know what they are. =(O,O)= Hoot! Message: 66156 Author: $ Steve MacGregor Category: Chit Chat Subject: Stuff and Things Date: 06/02/90 Time: 03:33:00 To Roger Mann: That's because the plural thing-word "data" is becoming a singular stuff-word, so that data is stuff (with no plural), whereas previously, data were things. You can't make the same argument about other words, though. The word "media" is still a plural thing-word (plural of medium, of course). =(O,O)= Hoot! Message: 66157 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit Chat Subject: Middleton/Constituti Date: 06/02/90 Time: 04:38:45 "The constitution is and always a living and changing document, able to be amended and interpreted to fit the times at hand." I see that Mr. Middleton feels the same way about the constitution as he does the Bible. Interesting. (It's almost too bad that I have ceased debating with him, but I couldn't resist that comment. Carry on.) Message: 66158 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Up with what Date: 06/02/90 Time: 07:07:02 Up MINE? Up with what, your imagined potency, a gun to replace your shrunken male anatomy? The only true freedom is "won" in vulnerability and the only bravery is to stand for what you believe WITHOUT a COlt 44 in your hand. No gun-nut DARE call anyone brave enough to call you out for what you are a coward. The bravery is in speaking the truth that guns in the hands of the insecure and immature babies of our society are a major threat to the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness and the time has come to amend the living COnstitution to protect American citizens from the toys of boys. Mike (Middleton) Message: 66159 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: Time wasting Date: 06/02/90 Time: 07:11:15 I think trying to twist the Lebesgue Integral into an operation that will let you accrue Euclidean points as though they were the same thing as dx is what is a waste of time. I think trying to account for all that is by thinking about spoons and Not-spoons is a waste of time. You are correct, there is time being wasted here, and poorly defined terms here, and unverifiable assertions here... like the question you ask. Mike Message: 66160 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Dichotomies Date: 06/02/90 Time: 07:20:27 It is rejecting dichotomies, power and weakness, right and wrong, us versus them, mine versus yours, my life versus your death, my GUN versus your bad attitude... it is rejecting those dichotomies that is the foundational philosophy to my statement that true power is in vulnerability and true supremacy is in humble service to others. I am you and you are me and we are all together, so lets drop our weapons and get busy helping each other. Then the "best of all possible worlds" (a world that is HERE NOW) will become manifest among us. Fear enslaves, those with such a level of fear and distrust that they want to own a weapon, are not free and are not liberated to be who they were created to be. We are only free when we give up our plans and schemes and self-defensiveness. As long as we try to be in control, we are slaves to our selfishness. As long as we buy into the illusion that we are the defenders or possessors of Truth, we remain in falsehood. We can not "dock" with the "starbase" to be "refueled" if our shields are up. So I recommend hope not guns, faith not feuds, and the love of the circle of humanity, side-by-side and co-equal all, rather than the dog-eat-dog ladder to heaven. . _|_ . | . | Mike Message: 66161 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Middleton Date: 06/02/90 Time: 07:36:23 You are a coward yourself. You're too chicken to admit that changing the constitution is for only cowards benefits. The trembling plastic faced brain dead yellow bellies of this nation think that by changing teh rules, the bad guys will obey. Somehow you get this utopian feather up your ---- that the weather is going to be peachy, life is a dance in the strawberry field and men will help men build a Godly nation. I hope you live to see the day when the other nations get their chance to put you into their submission. You will, if you get the chance to experience what freedom is worth, gnash your teeth and wish to almighty God you had behaved and listened instead of doing all the talking. Insecure as you are, I doubt if that makes a difference to the way you view yourself; you keep treating others as beneath your dignity and incapable of reaching your self-acclaimed maturity and height of ultimate manhood that seems to be some form of obnoxious self-gratification you insist on vomiting all over anyone in favor of keeping a gun around. Stick it in your nose, Middleton, and to hell with your rosy pink manhood idealisms. Your breed of crap will float to the top, yello belly side up just like the others are doing. Gutless worthless breed of crap. Message: 66162 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer! Subject: Melissa Date: 06/02/90 Time: 07:39:30 Look who's talking. I appear on T.V. for 10 seconds to debate DeConcini's logic on his proposed bill and I get labeled by *** YOU *** as a dangerous, brick-throwing, hate-stunned gun-nut who isn't safe to be around. Ontop of being called a zealot, it is you who didn't take the 50 seconds time out and ask yourself, well, gee, what did Mike say on TV, and what was his reason for being down at the protest for anyway? Well gee, since all you're interested in is making a mockery of something you don't understand, go shove it. Message: 66163 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Question? Subject: Mike M. on Mike C. Date: 06/02/90 Time: 08:25:50 Both of you are putting your points of views very well, even with the name calling. Unfortunately, I agree with Carter and Cliff. Re: your ... "the time has come to amend the living Constitution to protect American citizens from the toys of boys!!!" .... if you believe this, then we should ban fast cars - maybe even cars period er? Booze? It kills in the hands of the wrong people too. How many people a years gets killed with a knife. Ah yes, and swimming pools - they are boy toys too arn't They? The list is a long one. You make good points, but where do we stop? Also, do we not need to have some kind of protection from the people that have guns and use them against us? Not the Mike Carter's, the Cliff and Sandy's - but the criminal element??? The people that WOULD have them anyway regardless of the law? The police can't protect us - and certainly the courts will not. Last but not least, why take away a Constitutional right when our freedom is being eroded so regularly almost daily? You seem to be under the impression that if there is a gun law, they will be no guns! We have a drug law ........! You get the picture. -=*) ANN (*=- P.S. If our Constitution isn't a 'living one' then what is? I was under the impression it was written for the people and by the people??!! Message: 66164 Author: Hans Glans Category: War! Subject: Mike Middleton Date: 06/02/90 Time: 09:18:41 All people that own weapons for whatever reason are "boys". YOu seem to forget human nature. Men come in all shapes and sizes, Colt made the equalizer. Without guns, or any weapons, the larger and fiercer among us would still bully the weaker and meeker. You are probably one of those that think that women shouldn't fight a rapist. Just lay there and suffer. Fighting back is wrong, right? Oh, but in your dream world, people wouldn't do that first. Guns make people beat each other up, rape women, etc? Even if there were no crime, and people were all good to each other, I would have guns. It's called a hobby. Target shooting. Intelligent people don't ban things that can be used for negative purposes, they just don't use them for such purposes. Message: 66165 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: Name-calling Date: 06/02/90 Time: 10:25:11 Yes, your name calling PROVES you are not mature enough to handle a gun. One little post on one little BBS taking the position opposite yours and you explode with immaturity and insecurity. You should not be allowed within 10 miles of a gun. You imagine that you are a part of the civiliam militia protecting my freedoms from the saber-toothed tigers, Lord Have Mercy! You will protect my freedoms from YOU? You keep hiding behind your big }i"gun" and I'll stand naked for what I believe in... I am not afraid to be called a coward by a bully with a gun. First you want to stick something up my ass, then up my nose... say, who is it with homosexual rape for brains? Mike Message: 66166 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Living Words Date: 06/02/90 Time: 10:29:24 Exactly my point. Thanks, Ann. The Constitution is a living document. Paul (Mr. Pot-shot) wishes to point out how that is similar to the Living Word of God. Well, there are similarities. Fast cars are banned. 55 in town, 65 on the freeway. I drive a VW. You are also right that the police are not the answer, It is the moral committment of individuals that determines the moral level of the society. I have the info on owls for you. I looked them up in the library. I will leave a separate post. I'll be gone next week, so keep pointing out how our rights are being eroded, not by gun control, but because of our ignorance and the greed of the powerful. See you in a week! . /\\ . {@.@} . )"( Mike Message: 66167 Author: Mike Middleton Category: In search of Subject: Owls Date: 06/02/90 Time: 10:40:44 For Ann O. What I found on Owls as a symbol... The Romans called owls "strix" which became the same word for witch. The Greeks thought the owl was sacred to Athene, the "Eye-Goddess." The Mesopotamians showed Her as an Owl or an Owl-eye and these images are common to finds in the Middle East, especially in the digs around Mari, the City of the Mother. The Owl was the totem of Anath, and other versions of the Triune Goddess of the Moon (death and rebirth who ruled the darkness). According to Christian legends, the Owl was one of the "Three Disobedient Sisters" (as they referred te the Triune Goddess). She was cursed to be a bird who could never look at the sun (we could discuss Jesus as Sun God if you want). One medieval name for owls was the "night hag;" a bird in witch form. (or vice versa) We still wee owls associated with witches in the pagan holiday, Holloween. The Owl was thought by those who clung to their faith in the Goddess to be a symbol for Sophia, Her Wisdom. It was thought in the superstitions of those people that if an owl could be killed and its heart pulled out and laid on the left breast of a sleeping virgin, then the woman would talk in her sleep and reveal all her secrets and dreams. This superstition is the origin of our phrase "a heart-to-heart talk" to mean women sharing secrets of love and sexual activities together in private. So a HOOT to Steve and a thanks to you for the Owl drawings! Mike Message: 66168 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Question? Subject: Cliff Date: 06/02/90 Time: 12:04:21 Carter's homosexual threats are "squeky clean"? I guess violence isn't as unacceptable to you as sex. I wonder what Freud would have to say about that. Message: 66169 Author: David Nixon Category: Question? Subject: New BBS User Date: 06/02/90 Time: 14:19:35 My name is David Nixon and I am a new user. I have just recently acquired a modem and have now gotten it to work. I was wondering about the services that are available on the bulletin boards and would appreciate any advice anyone would care to offer. Thank you David Message: 66170 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: pretty certain Date: 06/02/90 Time: 15:56:31 The definition I quoted was from the Penguin Dictionary of Science. Here is part of another definition from Britannica: "Uncertainty principle, also called indeterminacy principle, discovered (1927) by the German physicist Werner Heisenberg, states that the position and the velocity of an object cannot both be measured exactly, at the same time, even in theory. The very concepts of exact position and exact velocity *together*, in fact, have no meaning in nature." Also -- "Any attempt to measure precisely the velocity of a subatomic particle, such as an electron, will knock it about in an unpredictable way, so that a simultaneous measurement of its position has no validity. This result has nothing to do with inadequacies in the measuring instruments, the technique, or the observer; it arises out of the intimate connection in nature between particles and waves in the realm of subatomic dimensions." Message: 66171 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mike Middleton Date: 06/02/90 Time: 15:59:12 Visualize world peace. Message: 66172 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Chit Chat Subject: Annie Date: 06/02/90 Time: 17:43:34 Re: "if you believe this, then we should ban fast cars" Gee Annie, does that include corvettes? [smile] :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: Message: 66173 Author: $ Bob Thornburg Category: Chit Chat Subject: Hands/Mike Date: 06/02/90 Time: 17:49:22 Re: "You are probably one of those that think that women shouldn't fight a rapist. Just lay there and suffer." No no! That's not what Mike said. He said, "So I recommend hope not guns, faith not feuds, and the love of the circle of humanity" I would think a rapist might enjoy this kind of attitude in his victims. Message: 66174 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Chit Chat Subject: steve/uncertainty Date: 06/02/90 Time: 19:08:39 Yes, it seems that "particles" exist in a sort of probability cloud until "observed", at which time either the position or velocity becomes fixed. Message: 66175 Author: $ Roger Mann Category: Chit Chat Subject: paul's blessing Date: 06/02/90 Time: 19:10:25 Thanks, Paul, for permitting us to "carry on". BTW, the Constitution is not a God-inspired document. (Or do you believe THAT too ?) Message: 66176 Author: $ Jeff Beck Category: Answer! Subject: Mann Date: 06/02/90 Time: 20:00:08 Probablity cloud, shmrobability cloud! Message: 66177 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: Free Spirit Computer Date: 06/02/90 Time: 20:45:01 Whach out for the guy, I purchased a used RS disk drive there once and the guy only warantied it for 48 hours, it fried a week later. If you want quality murcendise ( almost any thing you want used ) at a very reasonable price, try Electronics Materials Recovery on 31st ave and Thomas there in the phone book under used computers, dont both calling go down yourself, and I garanty you will end up spending money.They waranty their stuff unconditionaly for 30 days. They are extremly helpful if you go down in person. They even have used parts that fit my obsolete TRS 80 COCO3. Believe me you'll get a better deal there, but thats just my opinion because they treated me like a real customer not like a kid with a toy. See you later THE MAD MAX Message: 66178 Author: $ Steve MacGregor Category: Answer! Subject: Nixon/New User Date: 06/02/90 Time: 21:06:11 We're a friendly, though argumentative, bunch here. I think you'll like us. If not, then try the ther systems command from the main menu, and get a list of a *lot* of local BBSs to try. There's something there for everybody (like Trinity, with lots of religious discussions, or Pascalaholics Anonymous, for Borland techies, to name a couple that I haunt). Most of these are *free* *free* *free*, and worth every penny of it, if not more. Apollo here has [S]pecial [I]nterest [G]roups with specialized discussions in various fields. You'll have to $ign up for access to those. Note that *many* people think it's worth the price -- whenever you see a message posted by someone with a dollar-sign in his name, he's paid. Have fun! =(O,O)= Hoot! Message: 66179 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Drug Talk Subject: Melissa's drugs Date: 06/02/90 Time: 22:01:57 What kind and how much of 'em are you taking? I haven't made any threats here or anywhere else. What's with this homosexual diatribe? Why does every word you spew have to have a dirty connection with human reproductive organs? Freud says that these hangups are the result of too little attention being paid to the perpetrator. You know, drugs will not only get you messed up like this, but they'll also cost you a bunch. Message: 66180 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Answer! Subject: Middelton's Constit- Date: 06/02/90 Time: 22:09:11 Middelton here expouses changing the constitution. I'll bet he hasn't read it. In fact, if he was even partially informed, he'd realize a lot of this rhetoric he's belching is already come to pass. Sure, let's change the constitution. Lemme see. This is an election year in Arizona..so, since we have such a perfect government, let's ban the 1st ammendment, the second too and do away with the bill of rights...after all, we can't have the sleezo citizens barking up trees and disturbing the tranquility around here now can we? While we're at it, anyone who attempts to go .00001 miles / hour over the speedlimit will be faced with confiscation of the vehicle. After all, too many motorists die because of the insecure and immature idiots behind the wheel out there. If you can't drive under the limit you're not mature enough to own a car. Also, since we're changing the constitution around like our Great God Mike Middelton preaches, let's remove the right to own private property..hey..just think of all the housing problems we'll solve! That way, if some immature, insecure person decides to use their VCR too loudly on Sunday we can confiscate it and restore the ultimate tranquility in our ultimate utopian government controlling the perfect society. We'll have to ban everything that isn't mandatory. Message: 66181 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Get-Togethers (GTs) Subject: GUN GT Date: 06/02/90 Time: 22:48:27 Cliff, Sandy, Mike (C) and I were there... where were Peter P., Traci S., Nick, and the rest of you?? Message: 66182 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: bob(I think) Date: 06/02/90 Time: 22:53:16 Actually, some rapists get mad if a woman jsut lays there "dead". Part of the thrill for some rapists is seeing their victim be scared or scream. Message: 66183 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Carter Date: 06/02/90 Time: 23:01:00 "feather up your butt" "put you into their submission" "mastubatory self-gratification you insist on ejaculating all over anyone" "Stick it in your nose" "go shove it." These are some choice examples of your sexual hostility, taken out of context, from messages to myself and Middleton. I think I'm going to keep them; maybe use them in a story... But at least I'll put it on the cosmos sig. Message: 66184 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: J.Cummings/german Date: 06/03/90 Time: 00:14:25 Es freut mich echt einen menschen zu sehen der noch deutch spricht. Du brauchst nicht so formal zu sein, ich denke wir koennen uns dutzen. Dein deutsch ist nicht schlecht fuer einen amerikaner. Mein deutsch wird von tag zu tag schlechter. Ich merke das besonders wenn ich mit meinen eltern in deutschland an telephon spreche. I muss echt nachdenken bei manchen worten. Ich war das letzte mal 1987 in detschland, meine oma war am sterben, und die US ARMY hat mich kostenfrei nach detschland geflogen. Wenn es dir nichts asmach wuerde ich gerne unsere unterhaltungen in deutsch ausfueren. Ich kanns weisgotlich gebrauchen. Wenn du gerne deutsche zeitungen lesen wilst, ich habe genug von dennen. Die sind schon einpaar monate alt, aber ich lese sie trostdem gerne. Wenn du irgendwelche fragen ueber deutschland hast, ich spreche alle zwei wochen mit meinen eltern die in deutschland wohnen( meine eltern wohnenin Trier). Ich habe so manches erfahren das man hier nicht in denn zeitungen liest. Ich muss jetzt schluss machen da ich keine zeit mehre habe. Tschuess Jeff Lochansky Message: 66185 Author: $ Paul Savage Category: Chit Chat Subject: Roger Mann Date: 06/03/90 Time: 04:44:17 "BTW, the Constitution is not a God-inspired document." According to you and Middleton, neither is the Bible. What's the difference, in your economy? Message: 66186 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Melissa Date: 06/03/90 Time: 06:17:14 Yes, they're taken *way* out of context..in fact so far out that I almost went out of my way in the real context to avoid making them sound like hostile threats. But you're so hell bent on hating you can't see that. "At least I'll put it on the cosmos SIG" (1) You already re-posted the material (2) None of the material could ever be classified as foul, profane or slang. In fact, Webster's Deluxe second edition has some pretty graphic ways of describing some of the words you seem to be incapable of understanding their meaning. I recommend it..it's essential reading before you go blasting off at the mouth. [s]kip activated, I grow tired of your meaningless wretching. Message: 66187 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Here and now Date: 06/03/90 Time: 06:41:19 Last night I received a call from a good friend who advised me that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tabacco and firearms is taking steps towards banning certain types of ammunition. I know for some of you this is very good news. We won't bother wondering why at this point..just that it is important to listen to what each side on these matters say. One side wishes the Constitution to be changed daily without regard to its sanctity or what it really stands for. The other wishes the Constitution to remain unchanged. Well, I tell you what. The legislatures of each State in this Union have slowly been eroding at those rights of yours. You no longer have them. Why? Because nobody thought it would be a big deal...the people working on the laws figured the law they were passing was for the good of the people... We all really want peace to be in our lives. We all hope for better times and treasure the times like that in our past. Unfortunately there is the criminal element in our Cities, suburbs, schools and work places. It's inescapable. None of us wants to be a victim.. nobody here wants to get mugged or raped or any dozen things that can and might someday happen. It's truly annoying to live in these times with such fantastic potential to achieve in so many areas...and be threatened daily..intimidated by gangs, drugs, dispair. So what's happening is we're passing so many laws to "prevent" and put a "stop to" these threats and potential hazards. (CONT) Message: 66188 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Cont / Last Date: 06/03/90 Time: 06:48:46 We are passing bills, laws and enacting special stuff like that at a record pace. Have any of you , all arguments aside, really taken a few minutes out to look and see how many of these bills are going through? Have you had the time to read them all? I'm telling you, I haven't read them all and the ones I have read make me wonder. This **WILL** affect you. Maybe not today..tomorrow or even the next day. When it does, it will be all at once and you will feel like you are being singled out..because you really are. If there's anything you remember, remember that which I have just said. You're being singled out. Not just me and my guns, but everyone of you is being singled out. Separately. Bill by bill, right by right..State by state. It will be a laughing matter until it's your turn. I hope you are prepared. It wont be a gun fight. It wont be a fist fight...no, nothing like that... those are too intimate..too honest. It'll be when the cards are so stacked against you...all the marbles will be in their hands. It's true. You wont know who is your friend, who's your enemy. But you will know the fact you've lost your freedom and it will be too late to object because you, at that moment, will be a criminal. .....>> SAY GOODBYE TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS << Message: 66189 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mike M. Date: 06/03/90 Time: 08:49:06 No gun in my hand you yellow bellied traitor to freedom. The POINT was if you let them (the Government) change one part of the Constitution, what is stopping them from changing it all? Taking away ALL our freedoms?? Only an ignorant idiot would totally disarm the people. If you believe what you say, why don't you move to China... No one there ever gets killed....now do they? We FREE Americans don't want your kind! Being a Christian and a Vet, you make me SICK! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66190 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mizz Dee Date: 06/03/90 Time: 09:07:27 Gee, I was away yesterday and DID not see those 'Squeaky clean' words you are speaking of till JUST NOW! I agree with Mike C. in the basic facts...but I am not happy with his choice of wording. I feel I am part to blame as I said... "Up Yours" to Mike M. and then Middleton turned it into a SEX insult argument. (see Middleton's post # 66158, 1st and 2nd line) Mike Carter then countered that...and you know the rest. Next time I will tell Mike Middleton, I ment 'Up his nose with a rubber hose' and maybe he will keep his perverted mind in check. *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66191 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: The SYSOP Speaks Subject: Squeaky Clean Date: 06/03/90 Time: 09:32:55 PLEASE 'try' and keep sexual insults off this PUBlic board. I know in todays 'Living' world, it is all but too easy to let such things slip out. I am guilty of this myself, since I am only human... SysOps are *NOT* Gods, and we make mistakes! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* <--- sometimes Naughty Message: 66192 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: GUNS? Date: 06/03/90 Time: 10:07:23 If I REALLY thought banning weapons would make ALL crime vanish, and big bullies would not take over by pushing smaller people around... I would consider it! Better yet, I would support it! However, we are humans, and humans have been given free will by God to choose for ourselves the path we will follow. There were criminals before there were guns... so this proves guns did not invent criminals. What guns have done, is it has given big and small an EQUAL chance at defending themselves from such bullies who have chosen a path of shortcuts. Being educated on its use does NOT cause crime, but may prevent a crime. The key word here is 'educated', not 'banned' or being kept 'ignorant' about self defense. I do believe if you WISH to own a weapon of anysort, you should be educated correctly in its use. If you THINK you do not need this education, them maybe a GUN is not for you. Then there is SPORTS! We are not all Neanderthals, thus we all can't play 'football' or even 'baseball'. I myself have never played them games well, nor do I enjoy watching them. I however do like shooting at NON-Living targets. I don't even like to hunt! People like Middleton want to make this sport a CRIME! Yet people are injured EVERY day playing school football and baseball. Heck, people have even been killed playng golf! If you ban one, ban them all! Let's all sit around doing NOTHING! Yes, I have my EXPERT diploma in weapons handling. You will never get HURT around me by IGNORANCE if I should happen to be carring a weapon. *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66193 Author: $ Bill Burkett Category: Question? Subject: Cliff/Mike C. Date: 06/03/90 Time: 10:38:22 I see you've already addressed this issue, but... Cliff, I'm sorry to complain again, but I really must protest the language contained Mike Carter's post number 66161. Melissa has already outlined the specifics in her 66183. His continued references to matters of a homo- or autoerotic nature are clearly in violation of the precepts you've espoused for the public [B]ulletin Board. Additionally, I believe this message, and others recently posted by Mr. Carter, violate Apollo Commandments 4, 10 and, by all standards of common public decency, 2. Others have been publicly censured for such activity. Is Mr. Carter, for some reason, going to be allowed to continue this behavior, Cliff? Does virtually anything go on the [B]ulletin Board now? If so, this is a sad day for Apollo. Message: 66194 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Answer! Subject: Bill B. Date: 06/03/90 Time: 10:56:30 I guess I did not address it enough, Bill? As you SHOULD know, I have not kicked ANYONE off Apollo for any reason in many years. I have tried to get the users themselves to correct their own posts where they can. I will ASK Mr MIKE Carter to use the UIP (Up-Date-in-Place) cmd, and reword his post. I think his post had value, but he could have picked a few more accptable words. I like to think MOST of us on Apollo are adults... and we should act as such. Again I am sorry Bill! Mike...will you PLEASE re-read your posts mentioned by Bill and do your own fix? How does the PHAntom Zone sound for a summer visit if you don't? You think it is HOT in Phoenix..... Mizz Dee.... Will your outline of Mike's post be not so graphic if he does fix it. I have always been against the repeating of said crimes(sic) in follow up posts.... It just seems silly to repeat what one finds objectionable. There are times I love being a SysOp..then there are times I don't! clif- P.S. NO hard feelings by ANYONE...please! Forgive us Bill, for we have sinned! Message: 66195 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Apollo Tips & Tricks Subject: UIP cmd Date: 06/03/90 Time: 11:06:46 In that last post I mentioned the cmd... Up-Date-in-PLACE This is for when you find an error, such as spelling or grammar, you can fix it with out getting the post out of order. It Saves it in the same place with the same message number. This CMD is ONLY available for $tatus members however. At one time ALL users could use this CMD, but we had some NON-Members come in and rewrite their posts form an innocent message, and after I had read it and gone on, would come back and write in garbage, profanity and other such filth....thinking it would not have to pass under my eyes again. Well, they lost that cmd, and for that I APOLLO-gize to you other non-members who would never do such things. The [U]pdate cmd can be used by all...but that brings the post to the front of the line again. Any questions? *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66196 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Answer! Subject: Reasonable gun cont. Date: 06/03/90 Time: 12:38:23 So when faced with the suggestion of reaonable gun control and the facts about the US Constitution, that it is a living document via amendment and judicial intrepretation, you reply by going off the deep end and extend the position of your opponent to the absurd? We said that guns should not be in the hands of the insecure or immature, but then the question became, "How do we tell?" Interesting that you stepped up an volunteered to be the model for us of both traits. Reasonable gun control is needed exactly because we are not safe as a society when people can not tell the difference between playing a VCR too loudly, going .0000001 miles per hour over the speed limit, and defending their version of "rightness" by pulling a trigger and blowing someone away. Reasonable gun control is needed just because the legitamate recreational use of guns by mature and secure people is being seriously threatened by hot-tempered idiots who love guns more than common sense. Thank you for the offer to model for us the EXACT type of person who should not ever own a gun, at least not until they grow up. You can not hide yourself behind your gun, nor your distorted view of the Constitution, we see you. We see right through you. Mike Message: 66197 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: Gold Tablets Date: 06/03/90 Time: 12:41:39 You tell us the difference in the BIble and the Constitution, Paul. You brought it up. Tell us how they are different... I never heard God in the Constitution, but I never heard Jefferson in the Bible, either. Have you ever heard anyone speaking a Living Word to you from either? Mike Message: 66198 Author: Mike Middleton Category: Chit Chat Subject: "They" Date: 06/03/90 Time: 12:51:14 So who do you think "THEY" are, Mr. American Christian Vet? THe Constitution has been changed several times, both by amendment, and mostly by judicial intrepretation. The Constitution is a living document, not cast into stone. If gun nuts want to continue using one small part of it to self-justify a dangerous and pointless hobby, then yes, it may be time to consider changing that part of the Constitution. Nothing un-American about that. I'd rather see us move toward reasonable gun control, but fanatics may preclude such a course. Freedom comes when a Christian dies to his own plans and schemes and fears and hates and prejudices and allows God to make him free in Christ. The more tightly a person clings to a personal cause or the defense of self, the more enslaved that person is. It should make you sick, sick enough of your SELF to die with Christ on the Cross that is the Crown of true Freedom. You may want me to move to China, but this is America and here is where I am, so here is where I stand for what I believe. The Holy Spirit is moving in CHina and among Chinese Christians, too. The self-righteous and fearful there do not like it either. I think it makes the power-broker types in China sick, too. Maybe you can write to the Chinese Gun Lovers and share stories about tanks running over unarmed peace lovers. It might be healing for you to know that you are not alone in your disease. Mike Message: 66199 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: last few Date: 06/03/90 Time: 13:09:44 What a JERK! You can't even talk to this guy without him calling you a 'Gun-Nut'...just because I had TRAINING with the tool. Telling me because I have a sport it is a 'disease'... He tells me I am hiding behind a gun, even after I told him I was not. He talks about Christ like he was a Christian... he is not a Christian...he is a joke! A coward.... A trator to realistic freedom. And worse of all...if he believes this crap about if guns were controlled...bad guys would not have them...then he is a bigger fool then I can ever label him as. If they can smuggle in TONs of drugs, why not guns? If I as a lowly airospace machinest can make a gun in my little shop....what will stop the DRUG Lords who happen to own much bigger shops from making their own weapons (guns). Restrictive LAWs only hurt the honest people. Middleton, go to China.... they want jerks like you as sheep! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66200 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Gun Laws Date: 06/03/90 Time: 13:23:33 I lived in New York for several years... One of the toughest gun control law states there is. Well, I owned MORE hand guns when I lived there then I do here. They were very easy to get in the underground. Funny, there is more crime there per capita then there is where guns are legal. Bad guys don't fear breaking into homes there as they can almost bet, the home owner won't be facing them with a gun. Criminals favor gun control.... is there something you want to tell us Mr. Middleton? FACT: In 1967, Hawaii enacted a tough gun law. In the five years following, robbery was UP 180%, murder was up 183%, and rape skyrocketed 326%! The four contries with the highest gun ownership have the lowest crime rates. These countries are Switzerland, Israel, Denmark and Finland. *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66201 Author: $ Melissa Dee Category: Answer! Subject: Cliff on Carter Date: 06/03/90 Time: 13:39:55 I was merely repeating his statements to attract your attention. I know he is a friend of yours and you believe in his point of view rather than mine(even though you don't know what that is). But I only wanted you to be fair. I can debate with people without throwing insults and don't believe i have voilated any of the rules on the public board. I am insulted that he is allowed to use this form of "arguement" on here and get away with it. Message: 66202 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: M.Middleton/66198 Date: 06/03/90 Time: 14:07:05 I'm sorry I have to get in on this one. Where do you get of calling a sport that millions of people enjoy a quote * dangerous and pointless hobby * I agree with cliff, that if you are trained and educated on the use of a weapon, there is no reason except for a true accident for anybody to get hurt. Lots of poeple out there use cars to run somebody down, do you want to ban them to? That is a sport too, if I understand it correctly. How about baseball, how many people get killed because they are bashed over the head with a baseball bat. thats a sport, you want to ban that also, because you might find it " dangerous and pointless "? I think cliff is right , yellow bellied idiots like you should move to China, not Russia mind you , because they are trying to archive freedom and fools like you might spoil it for them if you carried your views over there. Thats all, I've got to say to you. Long live the NRA THE MAD MAX Message: 66203 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Dee Re:66201 Date: 06/03/90 Time: 14:19:40 Thank you for your support Miz Dee... Yes, Mike is a friend of mine, but no less there is a letter waiting (RAM-Gram) for Mr Carter on this problem you speak of. He is not 'getting away with it' as you suggest. I honestly was not on Apollo for a day and I did not see the post in question till this morning. Give me a break, Mike has got to log in to see my letter and make the fixes himself. I give all $tatus users that chance...where I can. Yes, I agree with Mike on the GUN issue, and I am not sure what your view is on this subject...but I have not seen anything that I consider negative. I don't understand your comment about Mike on TV and about 'Brick Throwing'. (I knew it was in jest since I KNOW Mike) Between you two, I am caught in the middle.... but rest assured, any complaint by you or Bill is not being ignored! SysOp's honor! Now, where is Mr. Carter? Dang the Fang anyway! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66204 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: War! Subject: Middleton Date: 06/03/90 Time: 14:47:13 Yes, the Constitution has been amended, but NEVER to remove a 'Right' or a 'Freedom'. It was amended to enhance the rights and equal freedoms for ALL. You may not understand, but if you try to remove my 'freedom of Religion' or 'Freedom of Speech', I am going to get just as *MAD* and fight just as hard. You ask who was 'Them'... well, to be honest, 'them' is people like you who try to shove their morals and likes and dislikes down on the rest of us PEOPLE, like God appointed you or something. Note that I am not wanting to remove any of your rights from the Consitution, it is you who are setting yourself up as judge wanting my rights removed or modified. You are the 'Righteous Invader' into the Constitution that works and is the best in the WORLD! Your ideals may sound nice like flowers, but is in reality unworkable because people are people (for lack of better words) Get out your copy of the BILL of Rights and start reading: Congress shall make no law..... And: the right of the people to KEEP and bear arms shall NOT be INFRINGED. Keep going...... *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66205 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mike M. on owls Date: 06/03/90 Time: 14:55:10 Thanks for the owl message. Very interesting. However, I drew them because I extremely like owls, plus, they were fairly easy to draw using the keyboard. Ha ha. Real deep ain't I? -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 66206 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Bobby on Vette Date: 06/03/90 Time: 14:56:25 Ban the Corvette? Heavens NO! -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 66207 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: On Gun owning Date: 06/03/90 Time: 15:03:02 Pardon me, but isn't being able to own guns one of the things that make us Americans? How many other countries are the people able to own them? England? No. France? I don't know, but I doubt there's many. Why take this right away from us and put us in the same category as the rest of them? Besides, we may need them someday to fight our very own government! Lets keep them a wee bit afraid of us least they go against us. -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 66208 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Question? Subject: Cliffy Date: 06/03/90 Time: 15:08:24 If you are gonna throw Mike Carter in the Zone, will you throw Miz Dee in with him (sorry Melissa!) and then let me in too? I don't want to miss this! Ha ha. Grin. Snicker. Smile <------- those words are so you'll all know I'm kidding!! -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 66209 Author: $ Ann Oudin Category: Chit Chat Subject: Mike M. on China Date: 06/03/90 Time: 15:11:16 The reason they ran over those peace lovers with tanks is because the Chinese populace isn't allowed to own guns and they REALLY do need them for protection! -=*) ANN (*=- Message: 66210 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: Chit Chat Subject: Middleton Date: 06/03/90 Time: 17:08:54 I remember my teenage years when I was so self-righteous that I spoke all truth , knew all knowledge and none could tell me otherwise. Fortunately I have left that ailment of raging hormones and have experienced life a day at a time. Through these years I've come{to understand some things...one of them being that I can tell when someone hides behind his religion and locks his eyes and ears out to anyone. WHat Middleton needs he can't get here. Though he may beg for it, this world is so messed up right now he'll probably never get it. But that's o.k. His particular brand of hate and despise cloaked over in a thinly veiled disguise of holier-than-thou rhetoric is not unlike much of what has been a key ingredient in our local politico. I actually really do hope that he and people like him get what they're begging for. I at least wont be a part of it. Heh heh. I have that ground well painted, covered and seasoned. I wont be there to say "I told you so" either. Waste of time. It's better to stay ahead and let them scramble their own miserable way up. Heh heh. Don't worry Mikey, you'll reap what you're seeding..that's fer sure. Message: 66211 Author: $ Mike Carter Category: War! Subject: Wretching Date: 06/03/90 Time: 17:20:58 ONly because Cliff has asked me as a friend have I re-edited any of my posts. You two squeamish neer-do-wells are so hypocritic the fake halo around your head is about to set fire to your wig. Nevertheless... You can bet , **guaranteed** I'll be watching yer verbiage real close and with that way-out-in-left-field-context eye as well. Mizzy Dee is not only incapable of opening communication with someone in a non-hostile manner , she's also incapable of responding to the posts. Instead she gives up and attcks anything but the issue. That's O.K. too. It's a guaranteed Constitutional right. You have the right to wretch. Mr Burkett only tarts up when someone offends his opinion. Needless to say I don't wish to offend anyone with *real* profanity...but this milk and toasties with honey bit is gonna make me puke all over your cream-n-tarts world here soon. It's ** T O U G H ** you can't stand my opinions...and this just gives me more fuel to be that salt in your festering wound. Do yourself a favor, Bill, [S]kip my posts. Message: 66212 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: The SYSOP Speaks Subject: Hard feelings Date: 06/03/90 Time: 17:49:52 I was HOPING there would be NO 'hard feelings'.... I value all posts even when I am NOT in agreement, so I would rather see Dee and Bill not [S]kip Mike C's posts and vise-a-verse-a (sp) I don't think Bill disagreed with Carters opinion on weapons, but just how it was said. (Correct me if I am wrong, Bill?) I am confused on the Dee/Mike C. thing... somehow I think it was a misunderstanding. Thank you Mike, for fixing your posts. *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66213 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Chit Chat Subject: Dee Date: 06/03/90 Time: 17:56:09 Well, you certainly have some good material for a new story. But PLEASE post it in the COSmos SIG. *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* Message: 66214 Author: $ Apollo SYSOP Category: Politics Subject: Estonia Date: 06/03/90 Time: 18:30:41 I am an Estonian (Kolostow), my great grandparents were Christians as I am. They however were unarmed and murdered. Where does the fault lie I often ask myself. Most likely because they listened to idiots like Middleton who think laying down weapons bring about peace and freedom. Yes, the reds shot and killed all the women and children as well. Not one of them was able to defend themselves and only my Grandpa escaped as he was not in the village the day of the massacre. When I hear stupid people speak of "standing there naked" and not fighting for liberty and life, it makes me so angry inside, it hurts. If M.M. believes this is what he wants for himself, fine, let him stand there and watch his wife and kids get raped and murdered. I don't care since he don't care. Now get your tail to China and tell the Communist Government you are a 'Freedom Fighter without a weapon'. Stand there in front of their tanks with your false doctrine, and....... SQUISH! Message: 66215 Author: Jeff Lochansky Category: Chit Chat Subject: Guns in other countr Date: 06/03/90 Time: 20:55:12 Somebody, I think Ann stated that america is the only country where you can own guns, not quite true. You can own a firearm in several countries of the world. Let me inform you all about which ones, if you are interested that is. Germany: You may own a firearm if and there are several conditions 1. You can prove you need one such as You are a buissness man that carries a lot of cash. 2. you are a licenced hunter ( such require a lot of education and you have to pass a test administered by the state ) 3. you are a licenced gun collector ( you will have trouble obtaining amunition since you need a licence for that to ) France: The same conditions as in germany apply there to except for Veterans of wars, which can keep the weapon they had in service Swiss: All male citizens are part of a military reserve, and are permanantly issued weapons and amunition. England: You may own a weapon if you are a licenced hunter or gun collector. Norway: No major restrictions aplly here if that hasnt changed since I was last there. Netherlands: From what I understand all you need there is a licence. well I hope that was interesting enough THE MAD MAX Message: 66216 Author: Hans Glans Category: War! Subject: Cliff Date: 06/03/90 Time: 21:22:35 What is the best weapon for self defense... s Message: 66217 Author: $ Beauregard Dog Category: Answer! Subject: last Date: 06/03/90 Time: 22:29:55 From what I have been told, a good double-action revolver is the best. Least likely to jam or have problems, reliable, etc. Something that won't fail in a pinch (if you take reasonable care of it). Public & Free Bulletin Board command:EC You chose Chit Chat Subject:Bob T. Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop 1:Caffeine and Nicotine babies are also a big problem, much bigger than 2:cocaine babies. 3: 4:Cocaine is not, in reality, a big problem but due to "our current drug war" 5:it is being blown way out of proportion. 6: 7:Substitute the word, 'DRUG' for Communism and/or Jew and you will begin to 8:understand what is really happening. 9: 10: Rod 11:end Edit command:S Saving message... The message is 66218 Public & Free Bulletin Board command:R66218 Message: 66218 Author: $ Rod Williams Category: Chit Chat Subject: Bob T. Date: 06/03/90 Time: 23:30:19 Caffeine and Nicotine babies are also a big problem, much bigger than cocaine babies. Cocaine is not, in reality, a big problem but due to "our current drug war" it is being blown way out of proportion. Substitute the word, 'DRUG' for Communism and/or Jew and you will begin to understand what is really happening. Rod