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Apollo BBS Archive - June 24, 1990
Mail from Jeff Beck
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 04:25:37
Ren or Chaffri?
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:Okay, I'll try to figure what it means. How long do I get?
2:
3:By the way, the word FAG instead of Flag was in my message on the main board
4:was done on purpose. An honest mistake, eh?
5:
6:Save a mouse, eat a pussy.
Mail from Bill Burkett
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 06:34:24
I let the exterminator's poison take care of the bugs. In
addition to destroying all that life, it probably shortens our
own lives and contributes to the destruction of the planet. All
that for only $24 a quarter. It's a steal!
BTW, although you're, of course, full of shit on this whole
topic (as with so many others), your writing has really improved!
There were several very deft touches in one of your longer posts
from Friday night or yesterday. And without pissing anybody off.
Imagine!
Call before you come over, just to make sure we're here.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:Thanks for the input. Please give me your phone number again.
2:
3:You are correct about the 'bug spray'. I have a friend who was a Truly
4:Nolan employee for awhile. The lawsuits those people get from pets dying
5:are real. If it is poison and affects bug, dogs, cats, etc. then we can be
6:damn sure that it affects the human animal, to be sure. We are doing
7:ourselves in by a lot of different methods, aren't we? -Roddy
Mail from Bill Burkett
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 16:48:33
My phone number: 242-xxxx.
I prefer to think of our various methods of self-genocide as
reflecting our ingenuity and diversity as a species.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:Better not say too much more. As you probably have noticed I used the
2:amunition you gave me in mail. Thanks for the tip about the bug spray. It
3:sure came in handy.
4:
5:The self-genocide is a nice one also. -Rod
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 66864
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: HOT!
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 14:45:52
I went out to the Range (Ben Avery) and did an afternoon QC shoot.
All I can say is, it was HOT! And not the 'sqeaky clean' kind of hot
either, but I am not allowed to tell you the kind of hot it was, so let your
imagination run wild and then add 10 degrees to that!
And I am the one who wanted to live in Arizona... I need my head
examined.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
P.S. My shooting was also HOT! wink (-;
Message: 66865
Author: Randy Sanders
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: MyPoetry
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 16:54:23
Tabori Awakens
We reached across the Sunset
Turning my Heart pale as Blue
Our Fingers intertwined in the Distance
Appeared as Dust beneath the somber Few
Forty Monks called upon the Telephone wishing You ahead
Behind your broken Veil brown Eyes shadowy camoflauged the Sun
Rememberence of The Moments Laughter faded preceding the Lizard
Aside Dome & Tail. You fell beneath the CLouds Waterbreaking
and reached for Earths gentle Limbs/beneath the broken Shadows
of Dawnslight desert Wheat boughed in waves of gentle Motion
Earths darkly impaled original Sin began to Dawn upon your Face
I passed behind The Monastery
The sagging Roofs caved in upon us All
Sheepskin, Sheepskin have You any Wool, sang the Lamb
The Plow trods at Daybreak the Fast is broken at Noon
We fell instride near the Baseline aware of the Droughts approaching
Callousness. Cactus were formed from Heads all green bristiling There
was a Pond/It was clear Black and Earth carpet Gold. In the Distance
Forty Monks cheered You on/You as a Cameljockey I upon my deaf Swan.
not previously published poetry I am not a member of the SIG yet.
Message: 66866
Author: Randy Sanders
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ed Sheridan
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 16:55:38
Hey DEADHEAD I have a later version of ProComm 2.4.3. not the latest but
give me a call sometime I will get in touch soon. bye
Message: 66867
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/murder
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:08:11
Rod, surely you are putting me on! I enjoy the joking, but even in
jest to compare the slaughter of six million Jews to the slaughter of cattle
for beef stretches the bounds of decency!
Besides, we are discussing the ability to reason, which is the mark
of the human as opposed to the animal. Am I to presume that you are unable
to reason, so you keep going back to the growling dog simile? Surely not!
Message: 66868
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/heroism
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:12:02
Here I am again, Rod. Just for curiosity, WHY would you give your
life to save a child, or to save another person. Would you also give it to
save a dog? an ant? a tree? a spotted owl, or a squirrel? --John C.--
Message: 66869
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Darryl/66847
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:14:17
Well said. Actually, GMAC probably thought they were doing the right
thing to take him out from the remainder of the car payments. Then they hit
him with a deficiency balance judgment, and that made him mad. --John C.--
Message: 66870
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hans/Sex and Love
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:19:01
A very good point, Hans--we don't really know for sure if dolphins
can reflect. Dolphins, the great apes, and some orangutans seem to be the
closest animals we can find; closest to human intelligence, that is. Apes
have been taught to speak sign language, but they flunk the test of being
able to reflect. Same with Orangs. Dolphins intrigue me, but most studies
have been done by the U.S. Navy, and the results are to a degree secret, but
they maintain that Dolphin intelligence is higher than dog or pig or ape,
but still not "rational" e.g. able to reflect. But there remains doubt.
--John C.--
Message: 66871
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/intelligence
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:25:16
Perhaps I have done a bloody poor job of examining the rest of
creation, and maybe I dont have the intellectual capacity to grapple with
this problem. In that event, may I ask for help? I'm unable to find any
species of animal (or plant or mineral) which is able to reflect and draw
conclusions, which wears clothes other than for animal reasons, which writes
books and reads them, which plans for the future and works the plans and
changes them to fit changed circumstances, which uses computers, autos, and
airplanes, and which can insult guys like me because I state a theory.
Maybe you can educate me. Please, I hope this doesn't sound condescending or
autocratic--I really would like some thoughts on this point. --John C.--
Message: 66872
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/66852
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:27:11
See previous, okay? No, I'm not telepathic. Yes, I have observed
dogs and I have read studies which cannot find reason there.
Message: 66873
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/animals
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 19:31:13
Rod, I never claimes "superiority' for the human, just "difference."
Inferiority or superiority is another arguments for another time. I'm just
stating that the human is essentially, or of essence, different from the
animal. And one big factor is the ability to reflect.
Message: 66874
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/God
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 20:23:18
You better hope God's hard-drive crashes before judgment day.
James>>>
Message: 66875
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff/Rod/Ann/All
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 20:35:23
Please, guys, don't pick on me any more just because I like people
better than animals. Actually, I know some animals which I like better than
some people I know.
Rod, I cannot agree with your socialism, but I think you probably
love your kids, even if you hate the flag and this country and this system.
Hey, one out of three ain't bad, right?
Jeff B. I'm sorry I'm unable to communicate to you what I'd like to
discuss: the definition of humankind and how it is discernable.
Ann, you're so damn sexy I can't argue with you any more than I
could that time when Marilyn Monroe scratched my back and kissed my ear, and
Sysop, eat your heart out!
Message: 66876
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mad Max/Homebrew
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 20:40:52
Jeff L.--I visited Electronics Materials Recovery on 31st Ave and
talked with Larry and with a very foxy gal in tee shirt named Deborah. They
quoted me a bunch of good prices, but have NO used gear at all left, and if
I want to build my XT with mono monitor and 20 meg hard drive, I'm up
against $750.00. I can't hack that, but I might do it step by step--buy the
case amd motherboard, and power supply, then next payday a disk drive and
card, etc. My hair is short, grey, and it stands straight up--think that
had anything to do with the prices? Nah, can't be. Probably I appreciated
that tee shirt too much. Ah, well. --John C.--
Message: 66877
Author: Ed Sheridan
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: recycling
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 21:38:49
Instead of recycling everything if the corporations run out of aluminum and
paper and plastic, maybe people will have to resort to a different
lifestyle. Oh no!! NO more Beer and coke!
Message: 66878
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/Buried Standing
Date: 06/23/90 Time: 22:29:14
That's the way the VA cemetery does it.
Daryl
(Ro 15:5-6)
Message: 66879
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: graves
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 03:58:48
In Japan land is such a scarce commodity that the dead who are not
immediately cremated are buried only for a few years. At that time, the
remains are dug up and cremated, and the spot is used by a new body.
Gruesome, but true. The Japanese also think it's a big deal to stand on
multi-level tiered buildings and drive balls out into a common space.
Golf balls, that is.
Message: 66880
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Cummings/intelligenc
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 04:15:38
I don't know what you mean by "I'm unable to find any species of animal
which is able to reflect and draw conclusions, which wears clothes other
than for animal reasons."
Am I to infer from this that you have found animal species which wear
clothes for "animal reasons"? What are animal reasons, anyway? As for
animal species which appear to draw conclusions and make inferences, I have
already pointed out several, namely dogs, many primates, whales, etc. Of
course their inferences, reflections, and conclusions involve those things
which are of importance to them, and perceivable to them, so it hardly
follows that they would use their faculties to run computers or create
civilizations. They certainly plan for the future, but only in the limited
manner of creatures whose prime activity is survival. Of course, I have
observed domesticated animals, who need not be overly concerned with mere
survival, planning, or shall I say, anticipating, but here again, we are
considering simple elements of simple lives; food, exercise, play,
companionship, protection. No one is asserting that animals come near our
stage of development of the rational faculties, merely that such faculties
are observably not uniquely human. That was your original contention, was it
not?
More importantly, by what arbitrary rule have you decided that the
possession of rational faculties is the criterion for deciding who or what
can be made to suffer for our benefit?
Message: 66881
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Cummings/reflection
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 04:21:45
Obviously, you have never seen a dog moping around because his owner chewed
him out an hour earlier, or one eagerly listening for the sound of his
owner's footsteps, or one conniving to get food by stealing shoes, or one
agitated and anxious over the mere prospect of a bath, or any number of
other mundane behaviors which indicate some degree of reflection. I have
never, of course, observed a dog pondering the origin of the universe or the
nature of the infinite, but these are not the sort of reflections one would
expect a dog to entertain.
Message: 66882
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Bumper Stickers
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 06:32:40
I saw an amusing pair of bumber stickers on a car yesterday:
KEEP ABORTION SAVE AND LEGAL
and
LOVE ANIMALS -- DON'T EAT THEM
The owner should have a single one that expresses both attitudes
simultaniously, to save space:
KILL BABIES -- NOT ANIMALS
=(O,o)= Ouch!
Message: 66883
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Vote
Subject: Old Flag Vote
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 08:17:36
Flag burning is a form of protest. The Flag is a SYMBOL of this
nations freedom. If they pass an 'Amendment', will we be as free and will
the Flag (Stars and Stripes) mean as much? Think about it, then [V]ote.
[A] I am FOR an 'Amendment' to the Constitution to prevent the desecration
of the 'Flag' by such things as 'Flag-Burning'.
[B] I am AGAINST an 'Amendment' to the Constitution to prevent the
desecration of the 'Flag' (for whatever reason)
[C] I do not care one way or another... or I have no opinion.
Poll results to date:
[A] 7 [B] 21 [C] 2
Any Ideas for a new [V]ote question or Poll?
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
Message: 66884
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/standing up
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 08:45:36
AW! All those poor vets standing up buried! Their knees must get tired. Is
that any way to treat war heros?? (Grin) -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66885
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John/animals
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 08:47:40
Well, I can tell you about one animal that wears clothes - I have this
little Pekingese that has quite a wardrobe - better than mine! His blood
line is purer than mine too and his teeth are better! *Heh
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 66886
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: Cliff
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 11:51:06
YEs.....it was you saying to me "At least I *CHOSE* to live in Arizona.."
Just as I was leaving, the Pachmayers starting to melt off the grips
and the ammo self-igniting in the boxes.
"..I chose to live in Arizona."
I said, GOD, DON'T JUDGE CLIFF NOW...JUST GIVE HIM AN IDEA OF WHAT HELL IS.
Heh heh.
Message: 66887
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 12:39:55
Re: "From what I've observed, other species seem to communicate just as
well as humans to each other . . ."
Oh yah? I haven't seen any dogs log on Apollo lately.
Oh, I forgot about B. Dog.
Sorry B.
:-) (-: :-) (-: :-) :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-:
Message: 66888
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 12:42:06
Re: "What female animal will turn up its nose at the placenta and eat a
lunch meat sandwich and drink a glass of milk instead?"
If you ever invite me over for lunch, I insist you tell me what you are
planning to serve before I accept.
:-) (-: :-) (-: :-) :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-: :-) (-:
Message: 66889
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: News Today
Subject: More on guns
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 12:48:34
Did anyone catch the editorial on gun-control laws in Sunday's Republic by
William P. Cheshire? He's the Editor of the Editorial Pages. He says
"gun-control laws don't work" and explains why. Sort of on the side, he
points out that the Orlando police had trained 2,500 women in the use of
firearms in response to an epidemic of rapes. One year later, rape in
Orlando dropped by 88%. It was the only major American city where rape
declined that year. Interesting, don't you think.
Message: 66890
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dear John, again
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 13:47:25
Oh I see, the human animal is the only animal that can reason. Isn't that
stretching it a bit far?
It does look like the human reasoning leaves a lot to be desired. You
probably have your house sprayed for bugs each month. You are killing them
but leaving dead critters in your walls plus the poison buildup that your
house experiences is cutting into your, and your neighbor's health. Poison
is poison no matter how you look at it.
When is the last time you took a flame thrower to your house in order to
neutralize it?
I do not see any extra reasoning ability between the human animal or any
other animal. Maybe you can fill me in.
Thanks,
Rod
Message: 66891
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hey John
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 13:57:39
If I saw a dog, tree or child in a dangerous situation, one that would cause
it permanent harm then I would take steps to help them out.
If I messed up and died in the process then that is my own stupid fault.
No, I would not give up this particular life in exchange for the above
mentioned unless there was a good reason. As said before, life is really
cheap and dying is no big thing. In a hundred of our years everyone you now
know will be dead so what is a few miliseconds in eternity. Nothing John,
nothing.
If you wish you can change that last sentence to 120 years.
I had a friend who was dying of cancer of the liver. He wanted to live to
the last possible second even though there was a great deal of suffering on
his and his families part. If he had committed suicide then he would have
saved everyone.
I used my reasoning on him but he elected instead to shoot morphine in place
of soon to be death. A million of our years is still nothing in eternity,
nothing at all. Think of all life that dies in such a very short period.
And as to the cows, just ask any cow its opinion and they would think of the
six million as a drop in the bucket compared to their collective numbers who
have gone before as slaves. -Rod
Message: 66892
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John/Question
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 14:00:33
Are you saying that a dog, cat, dolphin or any other species of animal does
not have as much right to live on this planet as the human animal?
Are you saying the human has more rights or is better?
Message: 66893
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James White
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 14:01:04
But I can whip that wimp.
Message: 66894
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 14:11:43
Dear John......yes, the human animal does wear clothes. And you know what
John......please give this some thought, okay? The taking up of wearing
clothing over our bodies was undoubtable one of the biggest errors that we
have made.
Look at the dog or cat for instance. Let us say that we took a family of
them and dressed them up in clothes, complete with hat. Since they have
shorter life spans than humans we could see results in a shorter period.
The net result after ten or so generations would be that these animals would
lose their NATURAL ability to insulate themselves. Now, take these families
and put them out into the summer sun or the winter cold and watch them dive
for artificial means to survive.
This is exactly what humans have done to themselves. We are, in essence,
turtles without shells.
When a dog or cat goes camping they need not take anything. Their natural
clothing protects them from all elements, save for fire. Humans gave this
ability up and now is paying a dear price.
If our early and fairly ignorant ancestors had elected to let nature protect
him instead of cutting open a bear or deer and climbing inside then the
health and strength of todays species of human would be much stronger.
Message: 66895
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sanders, Randy
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 14:20:38
I'll just bet the name of that poem was "Forty Monks".
Message: 66896
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Question?
Subject: Bob
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 14:22:17
You you be interested in coming over for dinner somewhere in the
neighborhood of July 8, this year?
We're have this really beautiful brisket of beef.
Message: 66897
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Human animal
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 15:07:54
Rod, you have your facts a little screwed up... but anyway, YES,
the human animal (as you call it) does have more rights... We have a better
brain, we can REASON, thus we are stronger. Note however, that does not
mean I run around killing everything for the sake of killing. But realize
now that even other animals do kill to eat and survive. It is a world where
you either 'eat' or 'be eaten'. Even plants are alive, so what is one to
do?
Let the cats and dogs live, let the dolphins swim free...but MAN
rules the earth. (and that is why it is getting screwed up)
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
Message: 66898
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff B/reflection
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 15:37:15
Why would one not expect a dog to entertain those notions? I submit
because the dog is ESSENTIALLY different from man. There is a difference of
kind, noit just of degree, between dogs' "feelings" and human
intellectualization. If we don't agree on this point, e.g., if you maintain
that the difference between man and beast is simply one of degree, not kind,
then we have reached an impasse. However, I might point out that your
argument is a variation on Nietzsche's, the one Hitler used to declare
Uebermensch, or the master race. Mine is that we must respect human life
over and above our respect for all life. This is not an argument of
superiority, simply one of essential difference. --John C.--
Message: 66899
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Steve/Bumper sticker
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 15:39:19
I like the one:
SAVE A JOJOBA BUSH -- KILL A WHALE
Message: 66900
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/clothes
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 15:46:57
You argue that man took to wearing clothes, and thus, as a result,
lost an ability to live without clothes. Your argument requires A PRIORI the
assumption that man would have continued without clothes. But I suggest that
as the ice ages advanced, man would have perished without the skin of the
deer or bear. Clothing, then, was the RESULT of the forces on man, not the
cause of the changes in man. --John C.--
Message: 66901
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 16:39:57
Yeah, you've been saying that for years--at max, you've got about 50 years
to go before you find out for certain.
James>>>
Message: 66902
Author: Randy Sanders
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: mypoem
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 17:47:27
Hey Dude did You read that?
I wrote that one a Lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiime ago
o well at least now I know someome is Out There. bye -r
Message: 66904
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: War!
Subject: Mike Carter
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 18:31:23
Your five hundred and one rounds of 9mm 115 grain FMJ 'plinkers'
is ready... you limp eared, FANGless wimp!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
Message: 66905
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: IRS
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 22:29:34
Today's Arizona Republic contains a story by Frank Lalli, entitled
"Death and taxes: Fight with IRS leads to suicide". It reports that
Alex and Kay Council had a $70,000 deduction for an art-lithograph
tax shelter disallowed by the IRS on their 1979 tax return, and that
the agency's subsequent handling of their case led to Alex's suicide
in June, 1988.
The Councils were audited for 1979 and told that the tax shelter
would be not be allowed, meaning that they would receive a notice of
additional taxes due. The IRS then made a typographical error which
caused all notices of the adjustment to be sent to the wrong address
for more than three years. By the time the Councils were finally
notified, the statute of limitations on their tax assessment had already
expired. Nonetheless, the IRS had added interest and penalties to the
bill and were now demanding $183,000.
The couple spent years entangled in the IRS's administrative web,
trying to get the agency to release the documents which would prove
that it did not notify the Councils in time for them to pay the original
amount, or even notify them within the statutory limit. The only result
was that the time wasted let the agency's demand rise to nearly $300,000.
In 1987 the Councils took the IRS to U.S. District Court. By this
time Alex Council was bankrupt, facing the loss of his home and
business, and could no longer afford an attorney. While he stood
ruined and running out of time, the IRS was granted an additional
delay to gather evidence against him. Council came to the conclusion
that he would not get a fair hearing while he was alive.
On the evening of June 9, 1988 Kay arrived home to find this note:
"My dearest Kay - I have taken my life in order to provide capital
for you. The IRS and its liens, which have been taken against our
property illegally by a runaway agency of our government, have dried
up all sources of credit for us. So I have made the only decision I
can. It's purely a business decision. I hope you can understand that.
- I love you completely. Alex." A postscript said she could find his
body on the northern side of the house. He had shot himself earlier
that evening after leaving the note and a 45 minute tape recording.
Kay is quoted as saying "I couldn't move, I kept thinking, 'Where
the hell is the north side of the house?' I didn't know. If I had
gone and found him then, I probably would have shot myself."
The death of Alex, who had been an accountant and a small real
estate developer, brought $250,000 in insurance money to Kay and
their four children. His instructions led her to use the money to sue
the IRS, and that suit uncovered the proof of IRS negligence which
they had refused to divulge for all those years. District Judge Frank
Bullock ruled that the tax code, "does not place upon plaintiffs the
burden of hounding the IRS for delivery of a possible notice of
deficiency." He voided the $289,282 tax bill and the agency's lien
against their home. He also awarded Kay the maximum allowable award
for legal fees, $27,971.
In interviews, IRS commissioner Fred Goldberg has been asked why
the IRS refuses to apologize for the Council affair. His reply, "We
do apologize - when we think the taxpayer deserves one".
There are several lessons here. A: The IRS's internal kangaroo
courts and administrative officers are there to serve the IRS and no
one else. They are not to be confused with the courts of the judicial
branch; they are not to be confused with impartial justice; and they
are to be avoided at all costs. B: If the IRS drives you to shoot
yourself, be sure to load only one round, so as not to provide a
ready means of suicide for a loved one who might be grief stricken at
finding your body. C: After your death, don't expect any sympathy
from the IRS. After all, earning money and wanting to keep it is a
very serious crime. See You Later, Dean H.
Message: 66908
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Animals
Date: 06/24/90 Time: 22:54:49
There is a difference between perceptual knowledge, which men and animals
gain by perceiving a thing, and conceptual knowledge, which only man can use
as far as we know. The dog can see and smell a shoe and recognize it from
previous experience. The man can do this, but he can also separate the
concept of shoe-ness from the shoe and see it as an abstract. He can
differentiate it from every other class of thing in his mind. He can design
and build a shoe, or communicate his need for a shoe using that conceptual
knowledge. Language depends on conceptual knowledge to rise above a very
simple level. Words often stand in for concepts rather than concrete
perceptions in human speech.
Rights are conceptual. A creature which can neither entertain nor
communicate the concept of gaining a right by granting it to others can only
have such 'rights' as are bestowed upon it as a gift by those who are in a
position to do it harm. That makes it not a right, but a priviledge. There
are reasons not to harm other creatures for nothing, but there is only a
right involved if harming it would violate someone's property right in it or
otherwise violate the rights of some other person.
See You Later,
Dean H.
Message: 66909
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John/Clothes
Date: 06/25/90 Time: 00:09:06
No, I had already considered that. If man hadn't been paranoid and afraid
of freezing to death then humans today would have thick coats much like the
Polar Bears. We would be better off in many ways. One is that we would be
more healthy and more comfortable.
True, not as many would have survived the bitter cold but the few that did
would have done our species a service, in the long run. Now man is
basically much weaker than he normally would be. The sun bakes us and the
cold makes us shiver. We need rain gear and all sorts of other stuff that
is more or less unconfortable.
The human animal would be a beautiful sight today with our long hair and we
would all have our own distinctive look. Of course the woman and some men
would continue to visit their beautician for a hair-do and manicure.
But we have lost many benefits and must pay the price. Of course it is
quite reversable but would take a few centuries.
The next time you feel like you are baking then thank your ancestors.
The human animal is a sad race indeed.
Message: 66910
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/species
Date: 06/25/90 Time: 00:23:11
I don't believe that man has garnered enough knowledge to be sure about the
brain and life force of other species of animal.
True, there are many apparent differences but who is to say that the cat for
instance is a lower species in any way. Mother cats give birth, protect
their young at all costs, teaches them how to survive, etc.
But we as a race do not fully understand exactly what it is they feel. I am
debating on behalf of all life forms even though I of course do not know for
certain.
I just do not feel superior to any other animal because all of us strike
down and eat the flesh of just about anything that moves. I think humans
have less to be proud of, as a whole, than say the cat family. We had
Hitler and his ilk, Marx, and of course the Inquisition among other things.
The cats of the world as well as most all other species did not evolve like
the human animal but our roots may have been basically the same with many
branches. These branches of life came about in order to allow a life form
to survive a particular set of circumstances that was in their immediate
environment.
Humans as well as all other species are not by a long shot finished
evolving. We would appear quite primitive as well as ugly to our
ancestors of say 10,000 earth years from now. What is to say that during
what remains of the history of this planet that a species, in order to
survive will develop intricate hands and brains as we did?
And what about the Dolphins and other sea creatures? They evolved to state
of the art beings in order to survive the water. Perhaps they were our
distant cousins that stayed in the sea. Perhaps also they have more
happiness than humans, save for oil spills and large explosions. WWII must
have been hell for them.
And the birds of the air are just what I would want to be except it probably
is difficult to find a good breath of fresh air, thanks to humans.
Humans, in their superior ignorance are messing this planet up for all
species of plant and animals.
If we had our natural insulation in the form of hair we could do without
energy draw for heating and cooling, washer and drier and a few other things
I haven't thought of.
In any case, I would like to be a bird where no boundaries, flags, systems,
IRS, or clothing existed.
Rod
Message: 66912
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Yup.
Date: 06/25/90 Time: 00:34:47
Life is cheap and it's easy to die.
Peace and Love,
Rod
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