Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - June 20, 1990

Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 66736
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C. on Dingbat
Date: 06/19/90  Time: 23:40:07

        He sure was a dingbat....  Too bad the people who hid under their
desks were not themselves armed.  Waiting for the POLICE to protect them did
not work...never does.   Had even ONE been armed and trained, s/he MAY have
stopped that 'dingbat' in his tracks.  But no, the do-gooders will try to
unarm more 'good-guys' thinking that will stop the bad guys.  Sigh!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 66737
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 00:36:06

Until one day when one of the armed citizens stop one of these
dingbats and *makes* the news. Of course, ice cubes will be forming
on the frozen pillars of hell when that happens. News wants 
soap to create foaming at the mouth. 
One day.
One day soon.

Message: 66738
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: A Dingbat
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 01:03:59

A sullen, defeated expression washed ashenly across his paled complexion.
It was the look of death from a shell of horror. A living being with
no motive to live and every motive to die and a reason to take company
with him. The AR-15 .223 Select Fire Military issue assault rifle remained
motionless. Its lethal muzzle projected into the soft lower half of the
mans torso. A frigid, trembling finger...pale white at the knuckles
poised like the sting on a scorpion. 
Their eyes met. Like orbs of cold steel in a demolition they wrecked
each other mentally. The tension like spring steel singing before the
last ounce of pressure releases a fury of explosive motion. Again their
eyes battled silently , one looking for a flicker of a soul and the
other searching for death. No one moved in that office. An office frozen
forever in a split second of time. Faces, meaningless features on walls
as plain as oats, details forgotten. The rush of lethal silence gripping
the area in a fist so tight that sound ceased to exist. 
A thin line of hair drifting on end from the wash of the overhead
fan changed angle and fell in the eyes of the man with the gun.
It was summer. 

Message: 66739
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Answer!
Subject: LOCHANSKY/SOC. MED.
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 01:27:13

     Yes, we concluded the discussion on socialized medicine.
We decided against it.
     

Message: 66740
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last?
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 05:21:54

        I didn't know that!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 66741
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: John C./Gary
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 05:54:20

 I think that from any Scriptural view, where the sanctity of life is basic,
suicide would be frowned upon.
 As to papal infallibility, that, in my opinion, is one of the greatest
fallacies of all time. ROmans 8:23 says ALL have sinned and come short of
the glory of God. That includes elected officials of the church. That makes
the pope an infallible sinner, eh? What's that? A contradiction of terms? I
knew that!

Message: 66742
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Clint
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 07:39:37

I wasn't aware that they give spinal blocks to terminally ill patients? Is
this a real option, or something you'd like to see?
Personally, I feel they ought to give heroin to the people in the last
stages - ones that have no hope! This has been very controversial in our
country but it has been a success in others. 1. Heroin is against the law.
2. They seem to be afraid of making an addict out of the ill. To me that is
ridiculous because Morphene is addictive also. 
You made a statement I'd like you to further comment on -- "Humans are not
animals and need to be given a chance, as small as it may seem??" A chance
for what? -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 66743
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gary on Bible
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 07:43:47

I do not know if it is in the Bible and being a former Catholic, I just may
have gotten it from that - somewhere in my sub-concious mind. I assume that
Christians think it's a sin. I might be wrong. 
Why it is against the law to take your own life?
You are certainly right about the Catholic church - they think it's a mortal
sin no matter what the circomstances and you will spend an eternity in hell
for doing it! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 66744
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Weapons again
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 08:05:59

It's interesting that the gun owners are reacting to this. I guess we should
just shrug our shoulders and tch-tch. Is there anything we can do about crap
like this or are we always going to be held hostage by lunatics such as
this. Ideas ?

Message: 66745
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Answer R. Mann
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 09:26:26

Well let me tell you what I did. first I bought myself a barebone IBM xt,
thats with no keyboard or anything. Just the case, powersupply and mother
board. The rest was rather simple, I put in a reconditioned 8 meg HD, 1 360
k floppy, hercules card, and a used modem that I bought for $30 at free
spirit computers. It was basiclly simple, except for the modem that is since
I could not find any documentation on it, and I had to experiment with the
right initialization string, but as you can see, it works now.The only real
problem there was, a friend was helping me, he took out the BIOS, and put it
back backwards, obviously the computer wasnt going to work, but We fixed
it.The main problem that took so long, was configuring the system to my
needs, like writing my autoexec.bat and such.I was at the begining totally
new to PC's since I had owned a RS color computer. About a week of sleeples
nights and a ton of books and reading, and I dare say I'm getting to be good
at this. Its an interesting little project, and it is that much more fun to
use the computer, since there is an obvious sense of arceivement every time
you use it.Next to putting it together, through all the bargening and going
to different sources for my components, I did though meet a lot of nice
people, and start a few new interesting relationships with folks in the
world of the PC.All I can really tell you is you propably would enjoy your
computer, and understand it and its functions better if you put it together
yourself. On thing is for shure, the experience I have gained through this
in of tremense value.
THE MAD MAX

Message: 66746
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:04:00

Re:  "Were the early popes more infallible than the later ones? Especially
the ones after 1850?"

They're all fallible!  The early, no more less than the later.  They are
only men with the weaknesses and strengths of man.

Message: 66747
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:06:59

Re:  "a bad case of AIDS"

All cases are "bad"!

:-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

Message: 66748
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:08:46

Re:  "Wouldn't it be cool if attempted suicide carried the death penalty?"

Very good Rod!  I got a good laugh out of that one.

Message: 66749
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:12:32

Re:  "Why it is against the law to take your own life?"

Is it against the law?  I don't think it is.  I think the general thought is
that anyone who tries to take their own live is considered crazy for the
time being and is treated accordingly.

Message: 66750
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JL/XT build
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 12:51:41

How much did you spend, if you don't mind my asking ?

Message: 66751
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Politics
Subject: Gmotor Massacre
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 14:05:01

Cliff, think about this: The employees most likely were not allowed to be
armed due to company policy. Of course, the gunman wasn't an employee, so he
wasn't bound by the rule.

s

Message: 66752
Author: John Groseclose
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Suicide. . .
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 15:27:06

   While at my father's cousin's funeral yesterday, I overheard a Southern
Baptist pastor telling a friend of the family about another pastor who had
committed suicide.  The one speaking had had to deliver the eulogy for the
one who had killed himself.  The deceased, after learning that he had a
large tumor in his skull (inoperable) with an estimated six months to a year
to live on chemotherapy.  The chemotherapy would have wiped his family's
saving out, so he placed enough money to cover the funeral in his personal
account, then wrote out his will.  After this, he took some anti-vomiting
medication and overdosed on a combination of painkillers and blood-pressure
medication.

   The (living) pastor's eulogy told the congregation that they must forgive
him his suicide, even as God would, for he gave his own life to preserve
what he was, and to keep his family "happy" and able to care for themselves.
 
   So, is suicide a sin?  Or do the circumstances dictate the morality of
the situation?  
 
                                John Groseclose

Message: 66753
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Massacre
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:16:27

  Too bad he didn't commit suicide before he got the idea of shooting all
those people.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 66754
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff L.
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:19:54

  Discussions don't get closed on Apollo, unless nobody wants to talk about
them anymore. Since you were the main proponent of socialized medicine, you
can resume anytime you wish. I am philisophically opposed to it, but the
question is begging me to find out more about it.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 66755
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Alan H.
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:22:01

  I love your explanation of the ban on flag burning as a thoughtcrime law.
I agree completely.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 66756
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bob T.
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:25:28

  Thanks, we enjoyed it too. The whole event was fun, and the events
following your departure may have been exaggerated to some extent.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 66757
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: New Times
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:30:40

  If anyone is interested I will post my letter as it was submitted to them.
I understand their need to shorten it, but they practically undid
its whole intent.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 66758
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Homemade XT
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 17:04:40

Well let me see.....about $200 for the barebone
XT(motherboard,powersupply,case,1 meg) $40 for a reconditioned Hard Disk,$25
for a reconditioned 360k floppy, $10 for a 84 key keyboard, got the HD
controller from a friend, floppy contoller about $10, monitor$65, hercules
card $10, 1200 internal modem $30.I'd like to thank the good folks at
Electronics Recovery for all their help in selling me the parts cheap and
trowing in a few freebees. The barebone XT by the way was only 2 weeks old,
I verified that with the manufacturer. I am seriously thinking about doing
this (uptting together systems) and making some extra$$. If anybody thinks
there is a market for that let me know, because I'd shure like to know if
its worth my time.
THE MAD MAX

Message: 66759
Author: Carla Ackley
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Suicide
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 17:27:32

 IN reply to Bob Thornburg:
 
 Hari_Kari is the term my Japanese friend used. (She is from Japan), I guess
that makes her a foreigner doesnt it?
 
 About suicide being illegal. I thought that it was a crime. Does anyone
know of the ARS code for it? 

Message: 66760
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger on Ideas...
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 18:40:46

        I wish I could think of some.  I did post about a weapons class for
everyone at school age level, when learning is at its best.  However, there
were no counter posts, so I assumed no one cared.  I mean, if it's a RIGHT
to own and carry weapons, then I think it should be taught correctly.

        In an FBI release, it seems police only hit their target once in
every four shots.  That is very poor shooting, and the FBI knows it.  Seems
the Shooting schools run by local government / police are so bogged down in
STUPID rules and LAWS, that teaching one how to shoot in combat, is NOT
possible.  Private schools not plagued with this RED tape and unreal moral
issues...turn out far better SHOOTERS!  This is from an FBI report.
Another LAW on the books will not fix this problem.  Getting more citizens
Qualified in weapons handling will correct this problem for the long haul.
Now, I said 'handling' and not 'shooting'.  Learning a gun is NOT a toy is
so very very important.  Our boys do not PLAY 'guns', instead they know the
TRUTH about guns.

        Roger, I bet my boy 'Travis' can unload and make safe any weapon he
might find...better then you.  Why I am willing to bet he can outshoot you
with a Wheel gun, Semi-Auto and Ranch (assault) carbine as well.  Travis is
13 years old.....

        Roger, (not poking at you sir)  Got any ideas on education? Or is it
just BAN them from the law abiding public?   Thanks -clif-

Message: 66761
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/suicide
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:29:04

        It is easy to imagine a situation in which the suicide of someone
would be of benefit to, or agreeable to, the family, the society, or even
the individual himself. But that is not what we're discussing. From a purely
pragmatic point of view, the suicide of the guy who intends to kill me
tomorrow is welcome to me. But pragmatism as a view of the world is simple
selfishness. Since about the time of Aristotle, a moral code has been
recognized which admits the sanctity of HUMAN life as separate from,
distinct from, and more valuable than, animal or plant life. Therefore, the
logical inconclusion is inescapable: suicide is wrong.   --John C.--

Message: 66762
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/popes
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:36:51

        Unless my dictionary needs a recall, there is nos contradiction of
terms re:infallible and sinner. Of course a sinner can be infallible. 
Infallibility simply indicates that statements of grave matter, when
propounded "ex cathedra," and relating to spirituality, do not err. But the
pope who propounds the statement might be a baby-killing car-stealing
lie-telling liberal conservationist. The statement would still be
infallible.  --John C.--

Message: 66763
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger/weapons
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:39:46

        One solutions might be to arm and train citizens so that many many
people would be carrying a weapon. I think the example of Switzerland, while
maybe not an exact simile, is worth studying.     --John C.--

Message: 66764
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mad Max/computer
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:42:53

Hey, congratulations!!! You've done what I have long wanted to do, and never
had the guts! Now, with your example, I think I'll try it, too.  Thanks
again.   --John C.--

Message: 66765
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Massacre
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 20:52:38

I wonder how many folks bent on suicide decide to take out as many
other folks with them. The hate and the hostility of such people must
be enormous. 

Message: 66766
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Homemade XT
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 20:55:41

Thanks for the lead on Electronic Recovery. I'd like to try a 386
with VGA and a VGA monitor so I could display Ann Oudin's excellent
GIF? pictures in all their colorful glory.

Message: 66767
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: maniac drivel
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 20:59:14

Actually, I was thinking more about how to prevent such occurrences in
the first place. The idea of a "fortress" workplace in which the folks
who work there arm themselves to blow away any potential maniac seems
repugnant to me. I guess the best way to start would be to try and 
understand WHY an individual commits such a crime in the first place.
Why out of the millions of law-abiding folks does one guy get a gun and
blow away a bunch of people ?                    

Message: 66768
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Politics
Subject: Crimes against Women
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 22:03:01

I heard on CNN tonight that crimes against women have increased.  Rape,
domestic violence, etc.  Today at CASA (the Center Against Sexual Assault)
we were called by channel 12, 3 and KFYI to give comments and interviews on
the incident on south mountain.  A woman was dragged away by two unarmed
men, no, one man dragged her off to his truck while the other held back her
boyfriend.  This happened in front of 3 dozen people and not ONE of them
said or did anything to stop them.  She was taked to a remote part of the
park and raped repeatedly.  
It's hard to say what one might do in that situation but I would like to
think that I would have at least yelled at them and once one person said
something that the other people would join in to help.  
Amelia, my supervisor, was interviewed and pointed out that this is not so
uncommon.  There was a lady that was raped on the hood of her car in the
parking lot of Park Central at 4pm.  I don't see how people could have
missed that.  I guess everyone is too afraid to get involved anymore.  It's
sad.  But something has got to change.

Message: 66769
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa/change
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 22:43:57

Well, we can start with our social structure.  Make it very easy for people
to own what they live in, not just pay and pay and pay for practically all of
their lives.

Start communes for homeless people where they can farm and supply their
needs.

Shorten the work week so the lower middle class can have more than one day
off per week.  This would open up more jobs to the unemployed.

Have a workable medical system that was affordable.

Get rid of all gasoline burning automobiles.

Build houses environmentally so they will not need the big power draw for
cooling and heating from dangerous power plants.

Make lots of safe bikeways and buy an electric auto for city travel.

At present this country is what we, ten years ago, accused Russia of being
like.

And smile more, it's catching just like AIDS.    -Rod

Message: 66770
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John Colling/equal
Date: 06/20/90  Time: 22:53:22

If someone said many eons ago that humans were the only life forms that had
feelings or souls does that make it true?

Go outside this minute and give your doggie a big kick in the ribs and then
come back in and tell me that he doesn't have feelings.

Even ants have them.  

Humans have always thought they were the superior animal and that shows true
ignorance on our part.

Like I said in my previous post to you, life is really cheap and should be
enjoyed while it exists.  Too bad it isn't.  People worry about their deaths
so much that it has actually caused them.  Death can really be fun and in
fact each of us will experience that great climax of life.

Let us each do our earth a favor by refusing to take up needed space in
death as we have in life.  I would like to see all cemeteries destroyed and
made ready for beautiful parks.  The children could play and swim there and
the parks could be made in memory for all who have passed before us if that
will make you or anyone else happy.

For me what has passed has passed..  We only have the future to look to and
let the dead take care of the dead.       -Rod