Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - June 14, 1989

Mail from Dean Hathaway
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 23:38:10

   Congress found it necessary to create the IRS and give it an 
approval to violate the rights of American citizens because U.S. tax 
policy is basically immoral. Citizens can not be expected to cooperate 
with such a theft ring unless they are motivated by enough fear and 
comforted with enough lies to make compliance seem like the path of 
least resistance. So, it is the government's policy of stealing its 
citizen's earnings which mandates the oppressive nature of the IRS, and 
not some simple flaw in the organization itself.
    Obviously, taxation based on income (which was originally prohibited 
by the Constitution) must be eliminated in order to halt such abuse of 
the rights of Americans. There are forms of taxation which do not 
violate the intent of the Constitution, are not basically immoral, and 
would not require a Gestapo to administer.
   The idea that government should take more from some citizens than 
others based on their income has been practiced for so long that few 
people give it any serious thought, but it is a foul notion which can 
bring only degradation. It is a disincentive to work and investment 
because it treats them as something to be penalized. It absolutely 
destroys any right to privacy since the government must know what 
everyone has in order to steal from them properly. But, its greatest 
evil is yet worse. That evil is the underlying philosophy that the
citizen's life is owned by the state like some kind of livestock and it is 
fitting for the state to decide what percentage of this life's work 
shall be harvested now and what percentage shall be left to keep the 
beast producing.
    To ask how the IRS would be replaced is like asking how a cancerous 
tumor would be replaced. It is not the IRS which must be replaced, but 
the malignant income-based tax system of which IRS abuse is only a 
symptom. Almost any other kind of tax system would be better, 
considering that this one was specifically designed to destroy free-
market economies. The least intrusive system I know of so far would be 
the sales tax, as it could just be collected anonymously at the point of 
sale of any goods deemed taxable. The argument that this discriminates 
against the poor by causing them to pay a higher percentage of their 
income in taxes does not impress me very much.
    Current tax policy discourages the poor from legally earning enough 
to fall into the taxable income range, while paying a small but fair tax 
along with everyone else would encourage people to earn more and better 
their lives. If you are earning $12000 a year and paying $1200 of it in 
sales taxes (assuming a 10% rate, that all income is spent, and 
everything in the world is taxable) then you are getting $10800 a year 
for yourself. If you go out and earn another $1000 dollars and save it, 
you keep the whole thing. If you double your income and keep your
expenses the same, you still only pay $1200 a year in sales tax and the 
rest is yours.
    The lid which keeps many people in poverty would be lifted, and they 
could cease being second class citizens and clients of the state's dead-
end poverty industry. For those who hate the rich, they could take 
comfort in the fact that every Rolls Royce they saw on the street was 
now paying a large share of the national debt every time it changed 
hands.
    The fact that the current system of intimidation and theft 
provides revenue to run the government should not stop us from 
opposing it anymore than the contribution of slaves to the South's 
economy should have prevented opposition to slavery.
   See You Later
      Dean H.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Thanks for the answer.  It makes sense.  I will print it out and make some 
 2:copies.  Have you considered running for a political office?  Your position
 3:is supurb.

Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 2316
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Review/Critique
Subject: Last
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:50:10

        I take that to mean you were not the creative genius behind
the poems you posted ..........

Message: 2317
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Review/Critique
Subject: Star Treck V
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 22:03:08

        Saw it today .......

Expected more than what I saw, which lead to some disappointments.
I think they should have stopped with Star Treck IV.

Nice visuals, though.

The actors are getting too old to move around.

Very little action, if any.

The Klingon (sp) ship did not seem to have any real purpose.

Message: 2318
Author: $ Todd Reese
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 22:34:16

Three out of five ain't bad.

Message: 2319
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Question?
Subject: TREK
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:37:38

     Is it true Satan makes a cameo in ST5?

Message: 2320
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Peter/last
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:51:48

Nah, I stayed home.

Computer Hacker SIG Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 188
Author: $ Todd Reese
Category: Bit Bucket Talk
Subject: last
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 22:31:04

Naw - who has time to read anymore.

The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 3179
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Up Yours
Subject: James/last
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:53:15

        Are we talking about yours, now?

Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 59225
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT/#59216
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 06:44:44

And for you my good man, I will quote Stanley Meisler - "Your content in
your smugness!" No other sentence discribes you so perfectly.
                       -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 59226
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/China
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 06:53:12

Why should I go over there and protest? There's enough here to do that.
BTW - changing the subject a bit - were you aware that during world war ll
 there was a boat load of 900 Jewish refugees that came over here to
flee from Hitler's regime and we turned them away and most died in Nazi
prison camps? This is just one incident too. We are far from pure and
innocent! 
I still say all government's are alike - just the rules are different.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely!" If you do not think that statement
applies to our government - just think about the IRS for one! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 59227
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/amazing
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:00:27

Why should JT amaze the hell out of you re: Meisler? You should know by now
that if someone disagrees with his philosphy, he labels them such as
'liberal muck' for example! 
I printed that article. I thought the guy really said it like it is! Talk
about amazement - I can never understand why America can't/won't learn from
other countries? Hell, Glendale and Phoenix can't even learn from each
other! -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 59228
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Meisler/Ann
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 09:38:44

        Are you suggesting that we MUST agree with such an outlook as
written by Meisler?  I too feel it was 'liberal muck'.  And even if it was
true, one should be 'SAD'....  not full of 'GLEE' as Rod is when he states
that people liked it so much they cut it out and framed it...  Now that is
sick in the head!
        I will agree we do have some problems, but I at least am not
joyfull about them.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 59229
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: PAUL/AMOK
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 11:06:38

    Yes, I agree - the fact I'm there is incidental.  Goddard & gang have
gone stadium crazy!  The amphitheatre fiasco, the Suns arena (which will
wipe out over 16 artists' studios, not to mention the cost!), now this new
stadium for Bidwell....  How about the so-called ofice complex at the Thomas
Mall location?  Geez.  And just think of the things they MAY be planning
behind closed doors right now.  The mayor & council (at least some of them)
seem to be woefully out of touch with the people of Phoenix.
     My question is this - (to Paul and anyone else) -  What is OUR next
step?
     It's good that Phx. is growing, it just seems the city gov't is
overcompensating.... not thinking things through before rushing ahead.

Message: 59230
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Meisler
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 15:28:38

There was a single new idea or novel observation in that article.  It is the
boilerplate liberal whine about how bad America is.  If I hated this
country, I hope I would have better arguments than this guy does.

Message: 59231
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Oudin
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 15:34:20

The funny thing is, by saying this country is no different from China, you
are proving you are wrong.  If you were in China and leveled such criticism
against your country, you would be arrested and perhaps shot.  Here, as
obnoxious and obscene as your views are, they are tolerated.  You are
correct that absolute power corrupts absolutely.  And that is what makes
this country so great -- our government was deliberately set up not to have
absolute power.

Me, smug?  If I were smug, I would not be so outraged and offended to read
your vile opinions.  I think you are smug -- you seem to take pleasure in
making obnoxious and self-satisfied remarks about what a rotten country this
is.  I would be curious to know what you have done about any of your list of
complaints about America.  Talk is cheap.

Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit Chat

Subject:Clifford

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:        I have no glee where the article in question is concerned.  I am, 
 2:however, busy gathering signatures from registered voters in order to put 
 3:the Libertarians on the 1990 ballot in Arizona.
 4:
 5:        I am finding out some interesting items of interest in my quest.  
 6:Most people who I talk to, ones I have known for years, are not registered 
 7:to vote due to apathy.  The most common answer I receive is. "They are all 
 8:alike (politicians) and all corrupt.  I can'

The SYSOP intervenes...
:t just a sec...   you can't mean me... my name is not Clifford!
:Oh!  then I will edit 0
:thanks...you don't realize how I HATE that name...thanks again... I would 
:rather be called asshole or worse... but never Clifford.  bye.... have fun.
:*

 8:alike (politicians) and all corrupt. Although I can't really agree with 
 9:their feelings in total, I do see their point.  But if we the people can get
10:this together on a grassroots level, we just may be able to regain our 
11:freedom from such people as the IRS and a few others.  -Rod
12:end

Edit command:0

0 is an invalid command
Enter [H] for a list of valid commands

Edit command:E0

 0: Subject:Clifford
Find text:Clifford
Replace text:Cliff
Message: 59232
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 18:36:21

        I have no glee where the article in question is concerned.  I am,
however, busy gathering signatures from registered voters in order to put
the Libertarians on the 1990 ballot in Arizona.

        I am finding out some interesting items of interest in my quest. 
Most people who I talk to, ones I have known for years, are not registered
to vote due to apathy.  The most common answer I receive is. "They are all
alike (politicians) and all corrupt. Although I can't really agree with
their feelings in total, I do see their point.  But if we the people can get
this together on a grassroots level, we just may be able to regain our
freedom from such people as the IRS and a few others.  -Rod

Message: 59233
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 18:47:29

        We both have different perspectives from one another due to the
lifestyles we lead.  From my view I see a basically unhappy lot.  There are
many poor I have contact with and I am usually asked on a daily basis to
furnish keys for a repossessed automobile.  I have even had jobs on repoed
trailer homes and stationary residences.  This type of thing alters my mind.
 I guess I could have used the word, "shades" instead of alters but I'll let
both stand.
        You and I see a different America.  You are full of youthful zeal
and I have already seen it many times in many different people, myself
included.  You may or may not wake up.  It depends on a lot of things.  What
may help is that you take very long walks at night in the city you reside
in.  Of course the first may be your last.
        Perhaps after doing so, if you survive, then go to Paris and take a
walk of an equal distance.  Let us here at home know the differences you
encounter.  While you are in Europe take a side trip to Holland and spend a
few weeks there.  I would like your opinion on that too.
        I didn't totally agree with the article from Meisler but enough of
it to value his opinion as being in the position to judge better than I. 
Someone else must have saw value in it as well as it was printed in the
Sunday's Perspective Page.  I just hope that you didn't totally 'can' what
you read in that piece.  Try to keep an open mind.   -Rod

Message: 59234
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Libs and others
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 20:55:07

        I will sign your petition Rod!   I am even thinking of becoming a
registered Libertarian.
        As for the people that are not registerd to Vote because of apathy,
that is a pure 'Cop-Out'.  All politicians are NOT corrupt and all are not
alike.  There are many well meaning people out there that want to help their
country and I do not think it has anything to do with party lines.  And even
if they do not like politicians, there are many local issues to be voted on.
If you ask me, they sound un-educated and maybe don't deserve the right to
vote!  One thing for sure, they are LAZY!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 59235
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Drugs & prision
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:08:21

        Rod paints a rosy picture about the rest of the world when it comes
to drugs....  Hmmmm  In 1972 I was in the Mediterranean Sea anchored of
Istambul (sp) Turkey.  Apon leaving we found that a number of our shipmates
were missing.  Seems the local authorities had caught a few American sailors
with 'DRUGs', and promply threw them in some dirty prision without so much
as a trial.  They were not even trying to sell the drugs, but mere
possession was enough to get them 20 years.  Rod, tell me again how great it
is everywhere else in this world, and how it stinks here!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 59236
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 2 new uploads
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 23:27:59

Todd Reese sent in two files tonight.

        One is an interesting file on the top ten junk food "news" stories
of 1988.  This is an ASCII file....  In the [L]ibrary ask for JUNKNEWS.ASC

        
        Another interesting file is on the top ten UNDER-REPORTED stories of
1987......   Ask for the UNNEWS.ASC (another ASCII TEXT file)

Neither one is listed in the [L]ibrary, but they are there for [D]ownload.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 59237
Author: Margaret Shertzer
Category: Answer!
Subject: Poets/Paul C.
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:14:13

The students did not stand up for their friend in the figurative sense. 
They signed an affidavit which not only slandered their friend, but
terminated his employment and ruined his career.  They never recanted, and
the gesture at the end of the film was just that.  Driven by guilt (more
correctly, by the conflict between pragmatism and self-image), their
behavior was a token gesture which carried with it no real risk, and which
occured long after it could accomplish anything.  Cheap, after the fact,
ineffectual attempts at solidarity are worthless.
 
No, that the motivations in question are common, does not make them any more
sympathetic.  Does greed, lust for power, or sheepish toadying to the status
quo become any more desireable simply because these are common traits?

Message: 59238
Author: Margaret Shertzer
Category: Politics
Subject: China
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:22:44

As usual, our government is all bark (and pretty feeble barking, at that)
and no bite.  A foreign power, antithetical to human rights and all we
profess to admire, has screwed its own people and told the rest of the world
to go fuck themselves.  Bush, like every other President in recent memory,
stands there shaking his finger ineffectually, all the while insisting, in
effect, that China is far too important to rile with any serious measures.
1956, 1967, and now, 1989.  Sound and fury, signifying nothing.  If we
actually CARED about the ideals we so emptily pay lip service to, the
Berlin Wall would never have been built.

Message: 59239
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:54:20

        See Dean about signing the petition.  He is the one who gave me some
sheets to have filled out by registered voters.  Or I will send a sheet with
Hawley and you can, when filled out, send it, as I'm going to do, to Dean.
Thanks,   -Rod

Message: 59240
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/Drugs
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:57:53

        Turkey is noted for having some brutal laws concerning drugs as well
as some equally brutal prisons.  I wouldn't want to be caught dead or alive
in that country.  Now Holland, that's another story.  I would like to live
in a country, and America could be that country, that respects the rights of
its citizens.  We are not there, yet.  But we are working on it.  -Rod

Message: 59241
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Margaret
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:59:42

        REMEMBER Mai Lai and Kent State! 

Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 420
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Shit-Chat
Subject: Rod / last...
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:11:27

        Ha ha ha, it is funny how your mind is the first thing to go Rod.
Poor boy, you have me and James Hawley mixed up!  It was James you were
talking about....

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 421
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Correct, the mind
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 01:01:50

        Tonight my mind is hanging on by a thin sliver of spider web.  I am
sooooo tired that I can barely see the monitor so I will have to leave the
insults go for a day.  Must have something to do with the incredible heat.

Bulletin Board command:EC

Message: 59242
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: KFYI/Meisler
Date: 06/15/89  Time: 01:09:28

        Stanley Meisler was the guest, by phone, on KFYI this afternoon.  I
found this out from Petrisko and he said that he caught the last ten minutes
of the show.  At the end of the alloted time, there were many people still
waiting to get on and speak.  The host said that he would have to get
Meisler to be on again within the next few weeks.
        Peter told me, basically, that from what he heard, people were very
impressed with his article.
        Let me say this about that!  I believe that Mr. Meisler's article
was intended to help wake people up.  I know that it opened my eyes a little
wider because here was a man writing who had just spent five years in Europe
and he was comparing that area with this area.  I respected his opinion and
thought of him neither as a right or left winger but as a person who
observed and wrote about what he saw.
        Now, after JT called him a liberal I get the picture that a
conservative is a person who goes around saying things like, "America, love
it or leave it", "NOTHING IS WRONG", "Praise the lord and pass the
ammunition" and "Anyone who has a negative opinion of anything about this
country is a commie fag."  Sorry but from what I hear expressed on this
board I am afraid that I never want to be a conservative.


Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 413
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Shit-Chat
Subject: Last couple
Date: 06/13/89  Time: 23:44:59

Is this all leading into a flatulence contest or what?

Message: 414
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Shit-Chat
Subject: Peter
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:09:47

He hasn't kissed my ass! Why am I the only one left out? Sob.
                       -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 415
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Dear Cliffy
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:13:26

* Actually, I'm only joking about all this stuff 'ole Mighty Sysop' who is
so handsome and intelligent that to look upon your being, one must turn away
or the holy light that surrounds you would blind! -=*) ANN (*=-

* Trying to stay out of the dreaded Zone!

Message: 416
Author: $ Ralph Blehm
Category: Shit-Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:29:23

If I wanted to  to an asshole, I fart.
              Love Ya,
              Ralph

Message: 417
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Shit-Chat
Subject: Rod Msg 412
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 09:43:10

        If you kept your nose out of my butt, you might get a gasp of fresh
air.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 418
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: ANN'S LAST
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 11:08:04

Sometimes you're pathetic.
  

Message: 419
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann/blinded by Cliff
Date: 06/14/89  Time: 18:53:34

        Amen.  It ain't so much the light as the smell of feces from his not
wiping himself real good.  Why the last time I saw him he had this long
runner of toilet tissue running out the bottom of his pants leg, trailing
for a few feet.  It was white paper with brown splotches on it.  It was all
I could do to keep from throwing up.  But I did that one time, yes, I was at
Cliff's house and we were having dinner, Italian Spaghetti, and Cliff had
gone away for a moment and I saw this 'turd' falling from his trouser leg
and I just heaved....oh....boy...was it awful.   Luckily though I managed to
heave on his plate so it didn't get on the floor.  You know something,
Cliff never noticed and he said, after eating, that it was the best damn
spaghetti he ever had.   This is the HONEST, boyscout truth, so help me BOB.
I swear on BOB's grave that every word of this is an Apollo fact.  -Rod