Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 17 - 18, 1991

Mail from Todd Reese
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 02:15:43

Hi Rod,
 
Good to hear from you.  Things are going pretty good over here.  How's life
with you?

No, I don't think you are Jesus.  You do look like the standard looking
Jesus, though.
 
Have a good one.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:Good hearing from you, Todd.  Are you in Hawaii playing football for Jesus, 
2:so to speak?
3:
4:I am going to do a post on Atheist Morals here shortly, I have the first two
5:or three sentences worked out.  I think it will be a good explanation.
6:
7:Well, I am about to launch a "anti public prayer campaign" here on Apollo.
8:Wish me luck.   The base of it is the new testament Bible verse that states 
9:not to be like the hypocrites and pray in the square for all to see but go 
10:into your closet in private and heavenly father knows what you want, etc.
11:
12:                                Take care and have a good time.
13:                                        Rod

Mail from Melissa Dee
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 16:41:20

Your video camera or regular camera?  I hope to be there, too.  I will be
racing home on a motorcycle though, so we might be pretty tired.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an [*> to stop
1:Regular Camara.  A veggie product may keep the tiredness at bay.  Rod
2:
3:P.S.  Tell Dog that I am not skeptical about sending my dues.  They will be 
4:forthcoming.

*=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 7611
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Vote
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 00:07:22

  Actually the vote was biased against libertarians in that it did not offer
a "None of the Above" choice, which is why I did not vote.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 7612
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Cliff on Libs.
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 08:18:43

How would one know whether the Libertarian party "doesn't offer what the
majority of the people want"??? How does one go about finding out about that
party? It is not very well known considering it was on the ballot a few
times. You have to search out information in book stores etc. to get any
information and then there is really very little. Libertarians are like the
other two - some are radical, some are consertivive. Unfortunately, if
anything is published, it is always the radical that they listen to. 
 
You can bet your sweet Bippy that the Reps. and Dems. do not want a third
party and do their best to keep the Libs down. Come on! You knew that!
                            *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 7613
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod on Libs.
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 08:23:59

Yes, they want to eliminate the I.R.S. - says it's illegal. It is!
 
What people are so frightened of with the Libertarians - they want people to
be more self sufficient instead of relying on the government so much! Heck,
why should people want them in? it's more work. Also, money is involved!
                            *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 7614
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann on Libs
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 09:02:28

        I want *PROOF* Ann....  What you say is hearsay and paranoia on the
part of the libertarians.  I looked into the libertarian party.  Some of
their ideals are fine...some are the pits.  Enough so that I was turned off!
One of the biggest turn offs was them telling me 'not to vote'... how dare
they tell me not to use my RIGHTs!  I will now work just as hard against the
libertarians as I would the communist party.  One in the same to me, EVIL!

Message: 7615
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Strange
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 09:18:12

  When libertarianism and communism appear to be the same thing to you, you
must be standing outside reality.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 7616
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Libertarians
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 10:34:27

When did they tell you not to vote?

Message: 7617
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Politics
Subject: Dean
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 10:47:11

        They are the same in the fact they both promise fantastic things
that CAN"T be done.  If it sounds to good to be true, then it can't be true.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 7618
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Answer!
Subject: Michael James
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 10:50:53

        In the last governors election...

        Since I saw a BIG difference between the two running contendors, I
damn well used my rights and Voted.   That is when I decided to never
support libertarians for anything.  They were more interested in numbers for
themselves then local government for its citizens.  A self serving party!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 7619
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Last
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 13:40:50

  What actually happened is this: the Libertarian Party, not to be confused
with all libertarians, was not allowed on the ballot in the election for
governor and since many of the party's members consider the difference
between Republican statists and Democratic statists to be almost negligible
it was mentioned that anyone who did not support either party would be
better off not casting a vote since that vote would only raise the
threshold which a third party would have to cross to get ballot status in
the future.
  I did try to organize a libertarian vigilante committee to visit
prospective voters and force them to surrender their voting rights and stay
away from the polls, but the effort ran out of steam just before we got to
Cliff's house, our first stop.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.
p.s.(now that Cliff has penetrated the{wilderness of opposite goals
   separating libertarianism from communism and determined that they are
indeed the same thing, I suppose all communists and libertarians everywhere
will have to be alerted by their cell leaders that he is out to get them and
that they should respond appropriately. Long Live The Proletariat!)

Message: 7620
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Smoke
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 21:58:29

Re:  The fact that a joint may contain many of the same toxins as a tobacco
cigarette does not in itself prove that it is as harmful

I think that smoke, no matter what its source, would be detrimental to the
body, if it were continually inhaled. 

Message: 7621
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Politics
Subject: Dean
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 22:02:01

Re:  I think that you would agree with me in stating that the two parties of
government do not care so much for translating the will of the people into
deed as they do for maintaining themselves in office.

I can agree with that.

Message: 7622
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Cliff on libs
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 10:05:50

The Libertarian party is EVIL? Arne't you being a tad fanatical there with
that statement?
 
Re: your ... "some of their ideals are fine ... some are the pits"...
Well? Couldn't you say the same thing about the Republicans and Democrats?
 
I think NOT voting is a fabulous idea and always did and I didn't get that
from a Lib. In fact, I didn't know they believed in that. Voting for the
lessor of two evils seems idiotic to me and I, at times use my American
rights and not vote for them!! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 7623
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Question?
Subject: Dean on Cliff
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 10:08:02

Re: "him standing on the outside of reality ... isn't that the same as
fanatical?" 
I can't believe, knowing Cliff that he didn't read, possiably a lot about
the Libertarians - yet he totally acts as if he never read a thing but got
his ideas from some supermarket rag!! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 7624
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Politics
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 11:26:51

        By not voting you show no one nothing...  By not voting it is people
like YOU who have helped ruin this nation...  By not voting you may really
let evil take over...  I am sure the communists love people like yourself.
And when you do not vote... you have given up your rights and that includes
your right to BITCH!  If you don't like the people running get out and WORK
for someone you want to run... or you may as well just shut up, as doing
nothing is the stupidest excuse anyone could ever give and it's idiotic.

        It is always better if the LESSOR of two evils gets in then the
Greater evil getting in.

*=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

Message: 4938
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Rod/last
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 08:27:43

Then BY GOD scratch it MY GOD! *>>> ANN O. <<<*
 
P.S BTW - a couple months ago Sandy bought over that pin that says "Rod is
God" - finally. Said she had been carrying it around with her. That is on my
bulletin board along with you Christian Deprogramming card! You'd be
surprised at how many people that come over ask me what those things mean.
                           

Message: 4939
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/19/91  Time: 01:03:36

Sandy was probably worshipping that button and didn't want to give it up.  I
understand.  I have lots more buttons.  My favorite at the moment is "Smoke
a joint for Jesus" but there are others.

I visited Peter's store this evening and found out that a button I made was
sold.  It was Dean's, "Don't Edit Reality for the Sake of Simplicity".  Way
to go Dean, even if you don't remember it.

You have really survived one hell of a trial by fire here on Apollo this
past several years.  You are one strong lady.

                                        Rod

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 76737
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Nudity
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 00:11:08

  Having read the Library text file on the recent Supreme Court decision
on nude dancing, I find that it seems to boil down to a few major points.
  The two main thrusts which the majority of the Court followed in deciding
that the State of Indiana could, within the framework of the Constitution,
prohibit nude dancing in bars were that nudity in the presence of strangers
is an evil thing and that all manner of further evils are spawned by
allowing this activity to take place.
  The First Amendment was brushed aside on the grounds that it was the
dancer's nudity which was being prohibited, and that any expression was
contained in the dance itself, which could still be performed if the
minimum of clothing prescribed by the State of Indiana were worn.
  The Court's dissenters point out, quite validly I think, that the dance
is an entirely different expression when done nude and that it is this
altered expression, this kind of "speech", as it were, that is being
prohibited.  It was noted that the law has not been applied to other nude
performances, such as theatre, and that it is the difference in message, a
component of speech, which is being suppressed here. If nudity in the
presence of strangers was the true target of this law, its application
would not have been limited to venues specifically presenting openly erotic
performances.
  The only clearly valid reason for laws against public nudity is to
protect those who would be offended from witnessing nudity against their
will.  Applying such laws where the only spectators are willing adults goes
beyond reason to enforce the moral notions of a group which is not even
present against the victimless activities of those who are present.  This
same kind of thinking stands behind the decision that it was permissible
for the State of Georgia to outlaw homosexual acts even when committed
privately in the participants' own homes.
  The Court majority's second conclusion, that the state has a duty to
combat secondary effects of adult entertainment by prohibiting nude
dancing, seems almost like grasping at straws. Claiming that prostitution,
sexual assault, decaying neighborhoods, and general lawlessness arise in
the presence of nude dancing establishments, this was given as good reason
for prohibition. It was further stated that there was no need to show that
these conditions would actually occur or had in the past in the same city.
  The dissenters again make better sense as they argue that there is no
real evidence that these things result from nude dancing. If such problems
do exist nearby, they could easily result from a concentration of men who
are predisposed to indulge in such things. This could better be remedied by
enforcing the laws against the crimes themselves and possibly by dispersing
adult entertainment establishments around the city.
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 76739
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann on Roger
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 05:44:06

 He didn't leave, Annie. He just changed his name. Matter of fact, I sort of
smell a conspiracy here.
 Roger "Hey Cliff, let's fool everybody here. I'll make some sort of lame
crack to you, and you send me to the Zone. Then change my profile, $tatus
and all, to the Green Lantern."
 Cliff "OK Roger. That sounds like a good idea. Nobody will EVER know it's
you!"
 Too bad the leopard can't change it's spots, no matter what you call it.
The flame has gone out in the lantern and the Mannerisms show through.

Message: 76740
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie/pleasing Jesus
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 05:49:24

 Well, for one thing, you're destroting your body, which is the temple of
the Holy Spirit according to Scripture. I don't think that Jesus would be
overjoyed about that.
 Did you see the latest statistics compiled by the Arizona Dept. of Health?
Some 5600 people died as a direct result of smoking in Arizona in 1989, at a
cost of some $750 million dollars. I don't have the figures in front of me,
(they were in yesterday's paper), but I think that about 31 of them were
infants whose mothers smoked during pregnancy, and a significant number were
non-smokers who got theirs through second hand smoke.
Interesting facts and figures, eh?

Message: 76741
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger Lantern/76721
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 05:52:33

"I'm not a great-grandmother."
 Nope. He could never pass the physical.

Message: 76742
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Beauty
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 07:18:52

Yassuh.

Message: 76743
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 07:22:23

re:Mannerisms. Could you be more specific ? This Roger Mann sounds like a
real nasty guy.

Message: 76744
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on bird
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 07:54:40

Daryl drove by and gave you the bird! Hahahahahahaha. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76745
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on destruct
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 08:04:38

Whoa there fellow!  Where am I destroying my body? I have 4 or 5 drinks a
week, eat a little fat and a smithering of sweets - lots of beef. So
what? Moderation is my middle name. *>>> ANN O. <<<*
P.S. I swim at least 3 times a day - mostly more.

Message: 76746
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Question?
Subject: Cliff
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 08:05:42

Yes Cliff. Where is Roger. You have been strangely silent on the subject. Is
he still in the Zone rotting? *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76747
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike on free
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 08:12:32

I read that article about how the employees can and do fire people because
of their lifestyles and their high insurance rates. It made my blood run
cold to think where this could and probably will head. They will be so many
on the welfare dole if this keeps up - half the people won't be able to get
a job! We made a big mistake making insurance mandatory and not having some
control of it. 
One thing that would change all of that is to let the people get their own
insurance out of their own pay check - be responsible for themselves!!
 
We know a guy that works for the railroad for over 24 years and is getting a
fantastic salery - but they take out over $400 a month for insurance! This
seems awfully high to me. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76748
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 09:04:48

        Roger was let out of the Zone after the weekend......

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 76749
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paluxy River
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 09:34:12

How predictable, Mike.  There are only a few creationists still promoting
Paluxy River as evidence of human-dinosaur cohabitation.  This is not
"opinion", though I suppose I shouldn't expect you to recognize a fact.

Message: 76750
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Politics
Subject: Free Press?
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 09:39:07

Mike, a free press doesn't mean that any citizen is free to force the press
to publish his drivel.  It means that the press is free to print what it
likes -- smears against those it opposes, and laudatory material against
those it supports, for examples.
 
If you really want to exercise your freedom of the press, start up a
newspaper like Ev is doing (or join his staff?).  Or print handbills and
distribute them.  Just don't expect a business to kowtow to your interests.

Message: 76751
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 09:43:14

I just got mail from him.

Message: 76752
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 10:30:21

If you eat lots of beef, you don't eat "a little" fat.
 
I'd rather have everyone buy their own health insurance than have to be paid
less because other people smoke, get fat, have children, have chronic health
problems, or run to the doctor for every ache and pain.  Fortunately, I've
been working as a subcontractor for the past couple years so I buy my own
insurance from Blue Cross/Blue Shield at a very reasonable rate.

Message: 76757
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: There always be an
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 13:04:03

England. (Taken from the Computer-Risks Forum on the Internet:
 
[NY Times via, at least, Henry Cate III, [email protected], and Mark Brader,
SoftQuad, Inc., Toronto, utzoo!sq!msb, [email protected]]
According to a posting in rec.humor, the following story appeared in the
New York Times in April 1972.
  COMPUTER SHOWERS A BRITON WITH GIFTS
Eveahan, England. -- Joseph Begley saved 2,000 cigarette coupons and mailed
them in to a British cigarette company in order to get a watch. WHen the
watch didn't arrive he wrote and asked why.
Back came three watches. Mr. Begley only wanted one so he mailed back the
other two. The next day 10 parcels arrived from the cigarette company. The
following day 18 parcels arrived. The day after that 10 more parcels came.
All were trade-in gifts given by the cigarette company in exchange for
coupons Mr. Begley never had. Among the gifts were three tape recorders, a
doll, a golf bag, two electric blankets, a cot, saucepans, a pressure
cooker, and long-playing records.
Mr. Begley wrote a long, pleading letter to the company asking them to stop.
In the return mail came a reply saying: "It was a computer error."
The company gave Mr. Begley 10,000 coupons in compensation for his troubles.
With these Mr. Begley ordered some tools and a bedspread.
 
He received a plant stand and two stepladders.

Message: 76758
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Russians
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 13:47:23

  I saw Vladimier (sic?) Posner on tv last night and he was supporting a
more Yeltsin-like stand against Gorbachev's pleas for loans and in favor of
investment instead. It's disgusting to see this long time lackey of
totalitarian communism even being asked for an opinion today, but does it
mean he knows something about the future when he spouts free-market talk?
  See You Later,
    Dean H.

Message: 76759
Author: Thad Coons
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Hello again
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 17:00:44

Hello again! 
Well, at least I have no reason to complain that this is a dull place
or that no one ever uses this board. I've been busy just trying to keep up
with the various posts and get familiar with the board again:
The last time I tried, a couple of years ago, I only had a 300 baud
acoustic modem, and conversation flowed nearly faster than I could read it,
let alone join in or reply to anyone!
This time it only took a few days...
There are several interesting posts I have noticed, and I hope to post a few
replies and comments the next time I log on.

Message: 76760
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Prohiboholics Anon.
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 20:00:43

  That decision was short-lived.  In 1919 the Supreme Court,
led by Oliver Wendell Holmes and Louis Brandeis, changed its
mind by a 5-4 vote.  The court declared that indefinite
maintenance for "mere addiction" was outside legitimate
medical practice and that, consequently, prohibiting it did
not constitute interference with a state's right to regulate
physicians.  Second, because the person receiving the drugs
for maintenance was not a bona fide patient but just a
recipient of drugs, the transfer of narcotics defrauded the
government of taxes required under the Harrison Act.
  During the 1920s and 1930s, the opiate problem, chiefly
morphine and heroin, declined in the U.S., until much of the
problem was confined to the periphery of society and the 
outcasts of urban areas.  There were exceptions: some health
professionals and a few others of middle class or higher
status continued to take opiates.
  America's international efforts continued.  After World
War I, the British and U.S. governments proposed adding the
Hague Convention to the Versailles Treaty.  As a result,
ratifying the peace treaty meant ratifying the Hague
Convention and enacting a domestic law controlling 
narcotics.  This incorporation led to the British Dangerous
Drugs Act of 1920, an act often misattributed to a raging
heroin epidemic in Britain.  In the 1940s some Americans
argued that the British system provided heroin to addicts
and, by not relying on law enforcement, had almost 
eradicated the opium problem.  In fact, Britain had no
problem to begin with.  This argument serves as an 
interesting example of how the deperate need to solve the
drug problem in the U.S. tends to create misperceptions of a
foreign drug situation.
  The story of cocaine use in America is somewhat shorter 
than that of opium, but it follows a similar plot.  In 1884
purified cocaine became commercially available in the U.S.
At first the wholesale cost was very high--$5 to $10 a gram
--but it soon fell to 25 cents a gram and remained there 
until the price inflation of World War I.  Problems with
cocaine were evident almost from the beginning, buy popular
opinion and the voices of leading medical experts depicted
cocaine as a remarkable, harmless stimulant.
  William A. Hammond, one of America's most prominent
neurologists, extolled cocaine in print and lectures.  By
1887 Hammond was assuring audiences that cocaine was no more
habit-forming than coffee or tea.  He also told them of the
"cocaine wine" he had perfected with the help of a New York
druggist: two grains of cocaine to a pint of wine.  Hammond
claimed that this tonic was far more effective than the
popular French coca wine, probably a reference to 
Vin Mariani, which he complained had only a half a grain of
cocaine to the pint.
  Coca-Cola was also introduced in 1886 as a drink offering
the advantages of coca but lacking the danger of alcohol.
It amounted to a temperance coca beverage.  The cocaine was
removed in 1900, a year before the city of Atlanta, Ga.,
passed an ordinance (and a state statute the following year)
prohibiting provision of any cocaine to a consumer without a
prescription.
  Cocaine is one of the most powerful of the central nervous
system euphoriants.  This fact underlay cocaine's quickly
growing consumption and the ineffectiveness of the early
warnings.  How could anything that made users to confident 
and happy be bad?  Within a year of cocaine's introduction,
the Parke-Davis Company provided coca and cocaine in 15 
forms, including coca cigarettes, cocaine for injection and
cocaine for sniffing.  Parke-Davis and at least one other 
company also offered consumers a handy cocaine kit.  (The
Parke-Davis kit contained a hypodermic syringe.)  The firm
proudly supplied a drug that, it announced, "can supply the
place of food, make the coward brave, the silent eloquent
and ... render the sufferer insensitive to pain."
  Cocaine spread rapidly throughout the nation.  In 
September 1886 a physician in Puyallup, Washington
Territory, reported an adverse reaction to cocaine during an
operation.  Eventually reports of overdoses and 
idiosyncratic reactions shifted to accounts of the social
and behavioral effects of long-term cocaine use.  The ease
with which experimenters became regular users and the 
increasing instances of cocaine being linked with violence
and paranoia gradually took hold in popular and medical
thought.
  In 1907 an attempt was made in New York State to shift the
responsibility for cocaine's availability from the open
market to medical control.  Assemblyman Alfred E. Smith,
later the governor of New York and in 1928 the Democratic
party's presidential candidate, sponsored such a bill.  The
cost of cocaine on New York City's streets, as revealed by
newspaper and police accounts after the law's enactment, was
typically 25 cents a packet, or "deck."
  Although 25 cents may seem cheap, it was actually slightly
higher than the average industrial wage at that time, which
was about 20 cents an hour.  Packets, commonly glycine
envelopes, usually contained one to two grains (65 to 130
milligrams), or about a tenth of a gram.  The going rate was
roughly ten times that of the wholesale price, a ratio not
unlike recent cocaine street prices, although in the past
few years the street price has actually been lower in real
value than what it was in 1910.
  Several similar reports from the years before the
Harrison Act of 1914 suggest that both the profit margin and
the street price of cocaine were unaffected by the legal
availability of cocaine from a physician.  Perhaps the
formality of medical consultation and the growing antagonism
among physicians and the public toward cocaine helped to
sustain the illicit market.
  In 1910 William Howard Taft, then president of the U.S.,
sent to Congress a report that cocaine posed the most 
serious drug problem America had ever faced.  Four years later
President Woodrow Wilson signed into law the Harrison Act,
which, in addition to its opiate provisions, permitted the 
sale of cocaine only through prescriptions.  It also forbade
any trace of cocaine in patent remedies, the most severe
restriction on any habit-forming drug to that date.
(Opiates, including heroin, could still be present in small
amounts in nonprescription remedies, such as cough 
medicines.)
  Although the press continued to reveal Hollywood scandals
and underworld cocaine practices during the 1920s, cocaine
use gradually declined as a societal problem.  The laws
probably hastened the trend, and certainly the tremendous
public fear reduced demand.  By 1930 the New York City
Mayor's Committee on Drug Addiction was reporting that
"during the last 20 years cocaine as an addiction has ceased
to be a problem."
(continued)

Message: 76766
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peaches
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 20:59:57

Re:  You didn't comment on what Paul said. Will you interpret what YOU think
he meant in those posts?

I would have to end up with subjects like 1/10 etc. to get my point across. 
I think some of what he said was social of that age.  For example, women not
speaking in church.  Did he mean that literally?  I think not.  I don't know
of a single church that forbids women to speak (I know some must exist, but
they probably rank with the snake handlers and such).  There's a lot in the
Bible I don't understand, but there's a lot that's very clear.  I think that
anyone who studies the Bible with a desire to know and apply God's word to
their lives will understand what God intends for him to understand.  Those
who read the Bible with a desire to tear down and find fault will understand
nothing.  There seem to be quite a few of the latter here on Apollo.  

Message: 76767
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peaches
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 21:01:55

Re:  I WANT TO KEEP THE PHANTOM ZONE ON APOLLO

I think Cliff has shown very good judgement in the past on who he puts in
the Phantom Zone and for how long.  Keep up the good work Cliff!

Message: 76768
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Question?
Subject: Cliff
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 21:03:27

Is the "Green Lantern" a new member or an old member with a new name?

Message: 76769
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 21:07:24

Re:  Green Lantern? I wouldn't be surprised if Roger is already with us

The thought had entered my mind.

Message: 76770
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Peaches
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 21:18:39

Re:  I read that article about how the employees can and do fire people
because of their lifestyles and their high insurance rates.

You mean the "employees" are firing their "employers?"  How unusual! 

Message: 76771
Author: Thad Coons
Category: Politics
Subject: Justice System
Date: 07/17/91  Time: 21:34:37

I have a few comments of my own to add to the
  discussion on prisons and sentencing. Since
 long, involved posts seem to be common here,
 and I have several interconnected ideas,
 here is another one. (Not as long as some.)
    Mandatory prison sentences were not only
a public reaction to high crime rates, but also
to a perception that sentences were too lenient
to match the crimes or to serve as much of a 
deterrent. However--- 
    Mandatory sentencing is motivated by
a philosphy that might be crudely expressed
as "lock 'em up and throw away the key". As
evidence shows, this treatment neither serves
as a deterrent to crime, nor does it serve
to rehabilitate criminals. The only obvious
effect is to overload the prisons and distort
the criminal justice system, as Apro Poet
has so appro-poetly observed.

     A better idea would be to make better use
of an ancient biblical idea: that of
restitution. Rather than a prison sentence,
crimes of theft should be punished by
compelling the person convicted to restore
the amount stolen plus a penalty. The
amount and manner of repayment should be
determined in the trial.
     Similarly, drug dealers should be
compelled to pay for public drug
rehabilitation programs. Goods siezed under
RICO-like acts should be transferred to this
fund. Similarly, perpetrators of violent
crimes should be required to pay medical
expenses resulting from their acts of
violence.

    Those who commit murder for the purposes
of getting financial gain or in order to
cover up other criminal behavior are too much
a danger to society to be permitted to go
free. As their acts demonstrate a wanton
disregard for human life, the death penalty
is entirely appropriate. They should
certainly not be housed, fed, clothed,
given medical treatment and educated at
public expense for prolonged periods,
certainly not when there are growing
numbers of homeless, working poor, and
mentally ill people who cannot obtain
these necessities by their own best efforts.
    In order to be an effective deterrent
 against crime, a punishment needs to
 be both swift and certain, or as nearly
 so as possible without sacrificing
 justice. The death penalty for anything is
 neither swift nor certain, not by any stretch
 of the imagination.

Message: 76774
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: LAME JESUS STICKER
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 02:13:28

A bumper sticker I recently saw: 
  
It pictured a dolphin leaping out of the water.  The caption read, "Jesus
Gives Me Porpoise."  
 

Message: 76775
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Green thing
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 05:13:58

"This Roger Mann sonds like a real nasty guy."
 You oughta know. Or better yet, ask your wife. She's had to live with you,
poor lady.

Message: 76776
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Annie
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 05:17:42

 You know darn well I wasn't referring to your alcohol consumption, Annie! A
little alcohol, in moderation and under control, never hurt anyone. It's
only when the alcohol controls the drinker that the trouble begins.
 I was talking about your nicotine addiction. THose things are deadly in any
amount. More proof positive of that coming to light almost daily.

Message: 76777
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie/Roger
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 05:21:13

Annie! Roger Mann vowed just a couple of weeks ago, that, should he ever be
put in the Phantom Zone that he wold never log on again, as Roger Mann. The
day after he was put in the Zone, this "person" calling himself the Green
Lantern appears, $tatus and all, displaying the very same sort of sarcastic
garbage that made Mann famous.
 If you can't put 2 and 2 together and make that connection, well..........
 (Green things always remind me of some sort of slimy ooze, know what I
mean?)

Message: 76778
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Felix/Paul
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 05:30:43

 Paul's reference to women keeping silent in the church can be easily
explained if one understands the customs of the day. In the temple of Paul's
time, there was a curtain separating the sides of the temple, with the men
sitting on one side and the women the other. If something was said that the
women didn'T understand (they were kept in the dark on a lot of things back
then), they would yell to their husbands over the curtain.
 It was this practice that Paul was speaking out against with his statement
concerning women keeping silent in the church and asking their husbands when
they got home. It helps, when reading ancient writings, to know the
circumstances that prompted the words instead of merely taking the words at
face value.

Message: 76779
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Felix/Green thing
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 05:32:13

 It's just too obvious to question, Bob.

Message: 76780
Author: Thad Coons
Category: Religion
Subject: Paul
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 06:37:39

>>Paul was a known homosexual....
Are you kidding? if not, can you back that statement up?

Message: 76781
Author: Thad Coons
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Women
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 06:47:08

I disagree with you somewhat, Ann, on the idea that men and women have
"different roles- only on a very basic level and that is childbirth".
I don't think that justifies or excuses some of the treament that
men have given to women, and still do, but many of the differences
that femininsts have objected to have reasons for their existence.
I have more to add, but it will take a couple of messages-- let's see
if I can get it in 3 of them.

Message: 76782
Author: Thad Coons
Category: In search of
Subject: Free press
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 07:00:08

The R&G has a problem similar to what many other large corporations have.
It has a virtual monopoly on newspapers in Phoenix. (Entry into
the marketplace is difficult: you have to compete for advertisers
and subscribers against well-established competition.)
Newspapers don't even have the space to print all the news: they have to
make decisions, and it is the editors and publisher who decise what to
print. Of course, what they print will be influenced by a) their political
or other philosphy. If yours doesn't agree with theirs, you are more likely
to be edited out. b) What they percieve sells newspapers.
Reporters on the newspaper get familiar with what the editor's judgment
is or is likely to be: freelancers don't have that advantage.

Message: 76783
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Welcome Back
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 07:10:48

Well, just join in and enjoy the badinage.

Message: 76784
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/Problem?
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 07:17:27

Paul, you seem to have a problem relating to "Roger Mann". Would you like to
talk to me about it ?

Message: 76785
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/Green Lantern
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 07:18:41

If you are accusing me of sarcastic garbage, I would like you to be more
specific. Precisely what was I said that you consider to be sarcastic. And
why ?

Message: 76786
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Religion
Subject: Bible Interpretation
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 08:49:01

From Felix:
> I think that anyone who studies the Bible with a desire to know
> and apply God's word to their lives will understand what God
> intends for him to understand.  
 
From Paul Savage:
> It helps, when reading ancient writings, to know the
> circumstances that prompted the words instead of merely taking
> the words at face value.
 
In other words it's okay to (in the words of that (apparently) great
theologian Nilsson) "see what you wanna see and hear what you wanna hear,"
ignoring whatever doesn't fit in.
 
I think I'll ignore the parts against fornication.  Yeehaa!

Message: 76787
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Politics
Subject: Thad-Crim Justice
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 08:49:37

Your application of capitalist ideals to the criminal justice system is
interesting.
 
Are there not violent criminals who do not deserve death, yet should be kept
separate from the rest of us?  What about them?

Message: 76788
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Michael on insurance
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 09:32:14

Being in business for ourselves, we don't have health insurance and it is
totally amazing how much 'less' we pay than the insured! I'm talking
sometimes 50%!! We don't run to the doctor at every ache either and we don't
demand every test in the book. Dental work is cheaper without insurance
also.
 
The new great grandson in our life cost a whopping $10,000 altogether with
insurance - because he had some problems and it really ran up the bill. But
it shouldn't have been THAT much. He only stayed in the hospital one extra
day. Nothing was life threatening. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76789
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cat on typo
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 09:35:56

No. Employees are not firing their employers. Just a typo fellow.
                     *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76790
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on addiction
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 09:40:00

But I don't  smoke dearie and I still don't believe all those statistics and
never will. If they were complete, then maybe I would - such as ...
"how many people smoke all their lives and DON'T die from it"??? 
                          *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76791
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on green
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 09:42:35

Re: your .... " displaying the very same sort of sarcastic garbage that made
Mann Famous."
Hmmmm .... I wasn't aware that Roger put out garbage. I guess he is like
beauty - it's in the eye of the heholder! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76792
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on Paul
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 09:49:47

Oh I see! You can justify Paul because you know something we don't know
cause you 'read ancient writings??!!! Come on Pauley, that is so far
fetched. Over the years you have berated us for believing the Bible is
contridictory - yet here in another breath your telling me I can't believe
what I read and need something else. Of all the writers in the Bible, his is
the most clear and precise. Even a beginner need not have an interpreter! 
 
What about that bit with him saying women are to be NEVER over men - having
any authority!!??!! Do I need some ancient writings to inturpret that? 
BTW - just what is this supplement to the Bible? *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76793
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thad on women
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 09:59:10

Re: your .... " but many of the differences that feminists have objected to
have reasons for their existence."
 
ANYTHING that makes me less free because I am a woman have NO reason for
existence!!!! I am a human first and have every right to the choices on this
earth as any other human.
 
"Would you care to elaborate on what the femininsts object to that they
shouldn't??" *
 
                             *>>> ANN O. <<<*
 
 
 
 
* Said the spider to the fly! Heh heh.

Message: 76794
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul Savage
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 11:02:00

 Re: Post # 76777  'slimy ooze'  ?????  This is not what we do on the PUBlic
board Paul.  All this hate and name calling is not the Christian way.  Why
are you so angry?  Please pull yourself together or I will have no choice
but have you visit the Zone for a day or two, to cool down.  I do not really
wish to do this.... but fair is fair.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 76795
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 11:13:15

        But the statistics have been proven over and over again. Re: "How
many people smoke all their lives and DON'T die from it?" Well Ann, how do
you know they didn't die from it?  They may have lived longer had they not
smoked.  Also, how many people did they kill by smoking all their lives?
How many people did they make sick?

        On the news yesterday they stated it has been found in the state of
Arizona, smoking is the BIGGEST preventable cause of DEATH.  That Smoking
DIRECTLY caused one fifth of all deaths in this state last year.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- cough...gag...

Message: 76796
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/Hospital
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 12:41:02

Costs. There was an excellent TV-movie about a month ago on the subject of
keeping babies who are extremely pre-mature alive at ANY cost. The cost of
these heroic efforts was in the area of a million dollars. My suspicion is
that the good doctors in the hospital use these opportunities to climb
aboard the gravy train and get extra fees for "just being there." My
father-in-law who is 86 had to go to the hospital for a broken leg. We got
bills from doctors we never even knew we had. Something is really wrong
here.

Message: 76797
Author: Thad Coons
Category: Bulletins
Subject: Oops, Bill,...
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 17:56:58

 That should be politics. Yes, there are violent criminals who should
be kept apart from society, but who do not deserve death.
Crimes of assault and battery, (perhaps including rape) would generally
fall in that category. Manslaughter and the like might also be
punishable by imprisonment: although given the existing prison
system and its problems, there could be some improvements made.

Message: 76798
Author: Thad Coons
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Feminism
Date: 07/18/91  Time: 18:00:16

I intend to, but it may take a day or so to put my thoughts together.

Message: 76799
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/nudity
Date: 07/19/91  Time: 01:14:14

Man is the only animal who covers up, embarrassed or ashamed of their nude
body.  All others, the pig, the horse, sheep, etc. don't seem to mind so
much and I doubt they consider it lewd.  One could argue that these animals
do not have minds like the human species of animal.  Then what defect does
man have and how do we rid ourselves of it?

Hell, I was born nude and so was everyone else.  What's the big deal?

It is a problem with society and not with mother nature, it is how we humans
were taught by our teachers to view nudity.  That is the evil, if evil is
the right word.  Flaw may better serve the meaning.

But considering how big a business sex is I doubt if many want to change.

The human is just not very swift.  As Zappa said in a recent interview
(Mondo 2000), "Stupidity is more abundant than hydrogen."

                                Take care,
                                 Rod

Message: 76800
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/destroying body
Date: 07/19/91  Time: 01:24:34

We all are destroying our body.  This is what you call the holy temple.

Have another cup of coffee then go out into the square and say a prayer.  I
though you knew that praying in public was a definite no-no.  Not following
the rules will not mess up your holy temple (body) but will mess up your
afterlife pretty much.  Which is more important?

Even prayer in school is forbidden according to the only true word of God
set down on actual paper material for us to read.

The next time you go to church you should remind the minister of God who is
present to not pray in public but go instead into his closet.  God will know
what he wants.  You do the same and for the sake of your spirit, don't pray
openly.  

And further, every time you put on a pair of shoes you are hurting the holy
temple, remember that.