Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 1, 1991

Mail from Melissa Dee
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 16:34:18

Yeah, I tried to be nice and sociable towards him and the next day he posted
some message on here about how all people are idiots and he pretends to like
them, or something.  I just do my part in helping him by not saying anything
at all and ignoring him.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Mark, well many of us had strange childhoods, as you know.  I see Mark as 
 2:very intelligent and I'd like to see him use it to help make some necessary 
 3:changes in our society.  But then again I feel that way about everyone I 
 4:meet.  The more the merrier.  I'd like to be part of the revolution and not 
 5:just a bystander without a position.
 6:
 7:It will be nice to see your books at Metrophobobia.  I'm going to have some 
 8:buttons there.
 9:
10:I will make one that says, "I am Woman, hear Me Bitch."  I'll give you a 
11:cut.
12:Say hi to Ron and I'll see you around.

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 7489
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod/Excretion
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 07:43:54

I'm glad I get bottled water.

Message: 7490
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Writers Cramp
Subject: Writing & Falling
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 08:16:14

> An impressive collection.  
 
I wish my income were more impressive.  :(
 
> How did you get into the tech writing biz?
 
        I've never quite been convinced I'm in the tech writing business. 
The majority of my writing projects could probably better be described as
"informational" in nature.  The software manual end of things is still kind
of an offshoot, although it's a relatively lucrative offshoot.
        I sort of fell into writing myself.  Once I found broadcasting was
too cutthroat for me, I managed to start producing training videotapes at
work and eventually moved into a full-time position doing that.  It soon
became apparent I enjoyed writing and designing programs much more than I
enjoyed producing them, so that's where I've tried to steer myself.  During
that process I found fun in just about any kind of writing.
 
> The IMT product is very impressive for the money.
 
I'll have to check it out.  Since working with Zuma Group's multimedia
package I've (once again) become very intrigued with the potential of
computer-based training and communication.

Message: 7491
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Dave Bolman
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 09:57:33

My HMO dropped my job shop a few months ago, apparently because too many
people got sick to be profitable.

Message: 7492
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Bill/Multimedia
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 13:03:59

Do you use the Amiga's multimedia tools ?

Message: 7493
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Roger/bottled
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:11:46

Perhaps if half to three fourths of the human animal population of the world
were to die in short order, another Renaissance would come about.  The Black
Plague, AIDS, earth upheaval, whatever, could make it happen again.  

X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 4876
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Who-dun-it
Subject: Mel's Poem
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 08:17:17

A lovely, painful poem, Melissa.  Thanks.

Message: 4877
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer !
Subject: Last two
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 16:42:08

Yes, and thank you, thank you.
I thought it would inhance the Ann/Gordon/Paul debate on abuse.

Message: 4878
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Melissa
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 23:23:35

That was inspired, Melissa!  Very poignant...  I hope it does.

X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:EC?

[$]#!+                   [A]nswer !
[B]eyond...              [C]osmos-Chatter
[E]rotic Stories         [H]OT-SEX !
[I]n & Out               [J]okes & Ha Ha's
[K]issing What?          [L]ove & Sex
[P]ositions Plus         [Q]uickie
[R]e-BuTTal              [S]hit-Chat!
[T]hang!                 [U]p Yours
[W]ho-dun-it

Enter category, [?] for list:I

You chose In & Out 

Subject:Poem

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:A worthy piece.
 2:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 4879

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 1858
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Expired Soul
Subject: Little Joe
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 18:28:13

        Well, it is pretty quiet on the Ponderosa now days.  Dan Blocker,
Lorren Green and now Michael Landon (age 54) are now gone.  Yes, you
probably have heard the news, Landon died today (7/01/91) of cancer.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- sniff (tm)

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:last

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Closer to the Renaissance.
 2:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 1859

End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:JN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Late Night Bulletin Board entered *=*

Late Night Bulletin Board command:$C

Press [A] to abort

Message: 2047
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Growl...
Subject: Daryl
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 08:16:43

Still in the bootleg business, Daryl?

Late Night Bulletin Board command:EC

You chose Chit-Chat

Subject:last

Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
 1:Not perfect, just forgiven.
 2:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 2048

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 76208
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 03:43:02

  MC>I think the $6.00 estimated rate is $3.00 too high and that these
  MC>leprous lipped, candy injesting rectifiers at the phone
  MC>company should provide the CID for free to start with.

This is quite true; the phone companies are only charging what they think
the market will bear, not what it costs *them* to provide the service.  It
probably costs them nothing apart from the initial setup.  It's worth noting
that the phone company charges for touch-tone service that costs them
nothing to provide.  In fact, frequently touch-tone service is actually
available on the line even if you haven't applied for it.  But they know if
you use it or not, and they then "ask" you to pay for it.  The only reason
the charge for touch-tone service has dropped is that the companies want to
encourage everyone to use it so that they can dump their old pulse-dial
equipment.

Message: 76209
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/abuse
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 03:43:58

  AO>I just don't think there are enough people from abusive homes that will
  AO>probably abuse their children to teach it in schools!

What percentage of abused kids do you think there ought to be before it does
become necessary to address the problem?  Ten percent?  Will twenty do?
I'll grant that the kind of horrible example Paul was quoting is a pretty
small minority (thank goodness), but I'd stake good money that a *minimum*
of ten percent of children are beaten a lot more severely than they ought to
be, and it wouldn't surprise me to see figures a lot higher.  Perhaps
someone else has definite statistics.  If you count various kinds of
emotional abuse that occur, you'd be looking at a good twenty or thirty
percent of homes where the children are being more or less damaged in some
way -- perhaps ways that don't show, but will handicap them in later life.

Even if we're not talking about "abuse", a huge percentage of parents could
probably do a better job than they do with handling their kids.  If all that
education did was to raise the general standard of parenting somewhat and
help relieve stresses within families that lead to abuse, it would be far
more worth while than PE.

The difficulty with statistics is in knowing where to draw the line that
defines physical abuse.  When does a mild spank become an overdone spank,
and when does it become a vicious beating?  For comparison, it's helpful to
look at sexual abuse, because sexual abuse either happens or it doesn't.

According to one study, seventy percent of young prostitutes and eighty
percent of all female drug users were found to have been sexually assaulted
in childhood by a family member.  Something like one in *four* girls are
subjected to sexual contact with an adult before the age of thirteen.  The
offender is likely to be a family member, frequently the father.  If this is
the rate of sexual abuse, what is the rate for physical abuse likely to be?

  AO>I don't fully go along with this excuse that people were abused so
  AO>therefore, they will abuse!!

First, there's a lot of difference between an excuse and a motivation.  Of
course being abused is not an *excuse* to abuse others, because we're all
responsible for our own actions.  But it *is* a motivation.  It's
justifiable and necessary to confront the abuser with his acts, and do
whatever is required to make him stop.  All the same, we'd be much better
off if we also used every method in the arsenal to help people confront
their own motivation to abuse, and prevent them from motivating the next
generation to perpetuate the pattern.

  AO>It seems to me that if a person were abused, they'd go just the
  AO>opposite and spoil their children.

Sorry, this just isn't true.  Studies bear it out without question.  Mind
you, if you are abused you don't have to be an abuser; we do have free will.

But the motivation will be there all the same, unless it's dealt with.  Not
all abused children become abusers, but there is a very high probability
that they will.

To understand why this happens, we must bear in mind that we're not dealing
with conscious, rational thought processes.  It's true that people do know
what cruelty is, they usually recognize that it's wrong, and the majority of
people do at least try to be good parents.  But -- surprise! they often find
that they are doing abusive things to their children *anyway*.  It's a lot
of buried anger that they've never confronted about their own abuse, and
unthinkingly -- subconsciously -- they take it out on their children.  More
often than not they will rationalize what they do by saying "well, it's the
way my parents raised me, and I turned out perfectly all right."  But the
truth is that they didn't "turn out all right"; they turned out to be
abusers.  And abusers, furthermore, who deny that they are abusive -- just
as their own parents did.

I had an interesting personal experience about this.  I knew a woman whom I
considered abusive.  She was always shouting at her children and hitting
them with a strap.  I rarely heard her say anything kind to them.  On one
occasion she was talking about her parents, and how she and her sisters were
raised very strictly and got hit a lot and so forth.  Then she went on to
say more or less exactly what you said about how it makes a child more
likely to appreciate kindness and use it when he or she becomes a parent.

So I told her no, that wasn't true, and it was usually just the opposite.
She then became *very* thoughtful and didn't say anything for a while...

  AO>I think basically, these people are cruel...  they just want to hurt
  AO>someone.

Absolutely true, they are.  But what do you think is the best way of
*raising* somebody to be cruel?  The overwhelming majority of violent
criminals, especially serial killers and so forth turn out to have a
background of severe abuse as children.  We have a vital interest in
stopping children from "learning" cruelty.

  AO>No education is going to change that.

Not overnight, no.  Unfortunately many kids are already severely damaged by
abuse by the time they get in school, and they continue to be abused through
their school life.  What education *can* hope to do is three things.

First, it should have a modest but significant effect over a broad front.
By teaching parenting techniques that are both effective and humane, it
should raise the overall standard of parenting for the next generation.  We
have to admit that there is more trouble with kids today than there was a
generation ago, and we can only attribute this to the way kids are being
raised.  We have to turn this around, even if it's a long process.

If good parents can be taught to be outstanding parents; if mediocre parents
can become halfway competent parents; if potentially abusive parents can at
least see ways to avoid or curb their worst abuses, this is a start.  Then
the next generation can be jacked up another notch, and so on.  I've
indicated in my posts a number of areas where specific techniques could be
taught to handle children more effectively and less stressfully.  These are
based on sound interpersonal psychology that works.

Secondly, those children who have already been abused can be taught
authoritatively that abuse is wrong.  Don't believe for a moment that
parents who abuse their children are necessarily "ostracized by society", or
even *used* to be.  The worst offenders would be ostracized when found out;
but the real crime is to be found out.  A massive amount of abuse is hidden.
Marginal cases of abuse are condoned by other parents who are doing the same
thing themselves.  Sexual abuse especially is hidden because it leaves no
scars -- externally -- and children don't speak out because they are
ashamed.  But all kinds of abuse are covered up by children out of loyalty
to their parents, on whom they are of course totally dependent.  And
eventually they internalize this loyalty to their parents' childrearing
methods as well.

Teaching children that abuse is wrong can encourage some of them to speak
out and enable intervention in the family to stop it.  Probably this scares
a lot of parents, which is why such education gets mixed support.

Finally, even those children who are abused and don't speak out can at least
gain some insight into what is being done to them.  They will be encouraged
to look at childrearing -- and into their own minds -- with a more critical
eye, and not swallow what their parents "taught" them unthinkingly.  They
may understand why they have various kinds of problems later.  Some of them
will be motivated to get professional help later, instead of making a
disaster of their lives and their own parenthood.

It would be very nice if communities would set high standards for parenting
and refuse to tolerate abuse.  But they don't.  Parenting has gone downhill.
Violent crime is increasing.  If "the people" aren't fixing these problems
themselves, then we *have* to do something in the schools.  Some parents
will object to this move because they know they are abusing their children.
Such objections should obviously be viewed with suspicion and strongly
resisted on principle.

But parenting always was a pretty haphazard business throughout history.
What *is* unfortunate is that many people may resist parenting
education, not because they are abusing children, but because it exposes
some shortcomings in the way they themselves were raised.  The temptation to
defend one's own parents is very strong.  It would be disastrous if this
kind of resistance prevented children from getting an education that is
desperately needed today, in the interests of everybody.

Message: 76215
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: TOPIC POLICE!
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 05:29:23

Hey Sysop or Sysop Jr.! Mr. Mann just insulted my intelligence! Isn't that
against the rules! 365 days in the Zone! (Or at least an Apollogy!)

Message: 76216
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 05:39:36

Once again, you put the cart before the horse and advocate the pound of cure
instead of the ounce of prevention. The causes of child abuse are many, and
they are known. The most prevalent one is ignorance born out of abused
childhoods. If beatings and other forms of cruelty are the only things a
child knows, case history after case history indicates that the abused child
will become the abusive parent. This is a cycle that has been proven time
and time again.
 How does the abusive parent get the opportunity to "turn over a new leaf"?
Only AFTER he or she has been caught causing unbelievable suffering in yet
another child! So, according to you, the preferred way of dealing with the
problem is to ostracize the abuser from society. Again, AFTER the fact!
 Education is the foundation of the nation! If the "three Rs" were all that
were taught in our schools, we wold be among all nations the poorest,
intellectually. In the case of child abuse, education is still the best
preventative. Why allow the cycle to continue, when it can be broken once
and for all?

Message: 76217
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon/last 6
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 05:50:54

 THank you, Gordon, for expressing my thoughts with such clarity.
 Admittedly, the extremes in child abuse that I mentioned are in a minority,
but they do indeed happen. If education aimed at breaking this vicious cycle
can prevent even one more such case, it would be worthwhile.
 God bless you and yours.

Message: 76218
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/Judgment
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 07:41:23

And I am sure you will remind God of Serrano's alleged sins.

Message: 76219
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Politics
Subject: Paul Savage
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 07:42:49

Read the 11th commandment, sap.

Message: 76220
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Answer!
Subject: Paul's Fine Whines
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 08:14:44

> Hey Sysop or Sysop Jr.! Mr. Mann just insulted my intelligence!
> Isn't that against the rules! 365 days in the Zone! (Or at
> least an Apollogy!)
 
        It would be helpful to the discussion if both of you were to try and
make positive statements.
        Understand, Roger?

Message: 76221
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Religion
Subject: Daryl's 99-44/100!
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 08:15:25

> "To the pure, all things are pure.  But to those who are
> corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure.  In fact, both
> their minds and consciences are corrupted.  They claim to know
> God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS they DENY HIM.  They are detestable,
> disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." [Titus 1:15-16]
 
Interesting how you never seem to find ANYthing pure -- except those few
things you decide are pure.

Message: 76222
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Bulletins
Subject: Apollo Grant $
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 08:40:09

During 1990, I was fortunate enough to be Apollo's 150,000th caller.  As a
result of that serendipitous achievement, I was awarded special Blue $tatus.
 That's lifetime $tatus with no renewal fees, ever.  In my case that's
proven so far to be a value of nearly $12.00! 
 
I really do enjoy Apollo.  I log onto several BBSes each week, plus BIX and
Compu$erve (my monthly CI$ bill is usually around $50).  Apollo is the only
one of these I try to log onto each and every day.  It's well worth $12 a
year and I'd like to continue to provide that small bit of financial
support.  
 
So, what Cliff and I worked out is the Bill Burkett Apollo Foundation. 
Using my Blue $tatus, I provide a grant each year of one year's regular
$tatus to an active, participating, non-$tatus user of Apollo.  I, alone,
choose who receives this grant each year.

There are only three restrictions on this grant:
 
     (1)  The grantee must log onto Apollo regularly. 
 
     (2)  The grantee must complete all procedures normally
          required of $tatus applicants, including (if he or she
          normally logs on with a handle) his or her true
          identity.
 
     (3)  Messages posted by the grantee in the non-Cosmos
          areas of Apollo must meet general standards of civil
          discourse.  Generally speaking, this means merely
          conforming to the [R]ules.  I am the sole judge of any
          violations of this standard, although the SysOps, may
          impose any other sanctions they feel are needed
          against the grantee.
 
If either of these conditions is violated, $tatus will, at my sole
discretion, be withdrawn and another non-$tatus user of the system will
receive the remainder of that year's grant.  In any case, a new grantee will
be announced each year on Apollo's birthday.

My hope in offering this grant is that it will get others "hooked" on Apollo
and, in some small way, help increase the subscribing membership. 
 
The second grantee will be announced on Apollo's upcoming birthday, July 31,
1991.

Message: 76225
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike Carter
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 09:41:57

I guess you didn't hear me point out that the state DOES sell vehicle
registration information.

Message: 76226
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 10:44:34

Very nice posts Gordon, but for the most part, I do not agree with you
anymore than I do Pauley! I do agree that education is the answer, but only
a small time spent on it while in school such as they now have for health
for example - NOT a whole term on how to be a parent!! No one can tell
anyone else how to be a parent and that includes abuse.
Your posts come across like written by a psychiatrist and that's fine - all
would apply if you were talking to an individual, not a group of prospective
parents that aren't dry behind the ears yet! 
I think education through the medias - such as they do drugs - wearing seat
belts - drinking - drinking and driving etc. etc. Warnings to the
prospective parents - to show them even the best of them can and will abuse
their children. At least enough education that when they are parents, just
maybe they will see themselves abusing their children and stop it! 
 
While we are here, maybe you can answer a couple of questions that Pauley
didn't answer - or refused to ....
1. What is a good parent?
2. What is an outstanding parent?
3. What EXACTLY would you teach the prospective parents on parenting?
 
You say approx. 10 % are abusive parents. You would be willing to inflict
mandatory education on the other 90%?? To me that doesn't make any sense -
especially in this day and age when the majority seems to be ruling over the
majority! We don't need any more of it. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76227
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley & Gordon
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 10:46:32

It is time to put this subject to rest. It is obvious not any of us is going
to change the other's mind. No use beating (abusing. ha) the subject to
death er?! At least we can start winding it down. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

Message: 76229
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Positive/Paul
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 13:02:50

Positive statements... OK, I'll try. (It goes against my nature) 

Message: 76230
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: Politics
Subject: Robber Barons
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 17:50:40

  It was in Texas that the Farmers Alliance movement began.
It was in the South that the crop-lien system was most
brutal.  By this system the farmer would get the things he
needed from the merchant: the use of the cotton gin at 
harvest time, whatever supplies were necessary.  He didn't
have money to pay, so the merchant would get a lien--a
mortgage on his crop--on which the farmer might pay 25 
percent interest.  Goodwyn says "the crop lien system became
for millions of Southerners, white and black, little more 
than a modified form of slavery."  The man with the ledger
became to the farmer "the furnishing man," to black
farmers simply "the Man."  The farmer would owe more money
every year until finally his farm was taken away and he
became a tenant.
  Goodwyn gives two personal histories to illustrate this.
A white farmer in South Carolina, between 1887 and 1895,
bought goods and services from the furnishing merchant for
$2,681.02 but was able to pay only $687.32, and finally he
had to give his land to the merchant.  A black farmer named
Matt Brown, in Black Hawk, Mississippi, between 1884 and
1901, bought his supplies from the Jones store, kept falling
further and further behind, and in 1905 the last entry in
the merchant's ledger is for a coffin and burial supplies.
  How many rebellions took place against this system we
don't know.  In Delhi, Louisiana, in 1889, a gathering of
small farmers rode into town and demolished the stores of 
merchants "to cancel their indebtedness," they said.
  In the height of the 1877 Depression, a group of white
farmers gathered together on a farm in Texas and formed the
first "Farmers Alliance."  In a few years, it was across the
state.  By 1882, there were 120 suballiances in twelve 
counties.  By 1886, 100,000 farmers had joined in two
thousand suballiances.  They began to offer alternatives to 
the old system: join the Alliance and form cooperatives; buy
things together and get lower prices.  They began putting
their cotton together and selling it cooperatively--they 
called it "bulking."
  In some states a Grange movement developed; it managed to
get laws passed to help farmers.  But the Grange, as one of 
its newspapers put it, "is essentially conservative and
furnishes a stable, well-organized, rational and orderly
opposition to encroachments upon the liberties of the 
people, in contrast to the lawless, desperate attempts of
communism."  It was a time of crisis, and the Grange was 
doing too little.  It lost members, while the Farmers
Alliance kept growing.
  From the beginning, the Farmers Alliance showed sympathy
with the labor movement.  When Knights of Labor men went on
strike against a steamship line in Galveston, Texas, one of
the radical leaders of the Texas Alliance, William Lamb,
spoke for many (but not all) Alliance members when he said 
in an open letter to Alliance people: "Knowing that the day 
is not far distant when the Farmers Alliance will have to 
use Boycott on manufacturers in order to get goods direct,
we think it is a good time to help the Knights of Labor...."
Goodwyn says: "Alliance radicalism--Populism--began with 
this letter."
  The Texas Alliance president opposed joining the boycott,
but a group of Alliance people in Texas passed a resolution:
       Whereas we see the unjust encroachments that the
     capitalists are making upon all the different 
     departments of labor ... we extend to the Knights of
     Labor our hearty sympathy in their manly struggle
     against monopolistic oppression and ... we propose to 
     stand by the Knights.

Message: 76233
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/Religion
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:14:15

Well, it is obvious that you *DON'T* read the Religion section of the
Republic, because it doesn't come "every single Sunday".  Pick another day
of the week (you now have a one-in-six chance of making your point).
 
Yes, I am talking about Kim Sue Lia Perkes, religion editor of the Republic,
 I have no idea of whom you are speaking.
 
How *is* one to choose a church except by the friendliness of the
parishioners and the quality of the baked goods?

Message: 76234
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Urine
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:15:13

Ummm, lessee, did God create urine?  Or was it SATAN?
 
Is God proud of her creations?

Message: 76235
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon/teaching
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:18:27

"...can be taught authoritatively that" their parents are wrong.  Hoo, boy,
you're swinging at a hornet's nest with that one.

Message: 76236
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Question?
Subject: Dog
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:45:18

Re:  and that people who have pulse phones are actually costing those who
have touch-tone phones more than just the extra monthly cost

I heard that one can pay a one-time fee for touch-tone service and not have
to continue paying every month.  Is that true?

Message: 76237
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Answer!
Subject: Peaches
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:48:05

Re:  he thought all that stuff woman's work and beneath him as a man

I don't get it?  What's wrong with that?

:-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

Message: 76238
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dog
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:58:05

Re:  Kim Sue Lia Perkes is one of the few *good* things about that paper!

The paper might as well appoint Rod Williams in her place.

Well, almost.

:-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

Message: 76239
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Question?
Subject: Paul
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 19:59:55

Re:  You wouldn't believe the mail I have gotten from Biddulph and Edward
Oldsmobile since I bought a used Olds, anad I didn't buy it from either of
them!

So that's how Larry Miller got my address?

Message: 76240
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 20:01:42

Re:  I met her and she gave me a hug.  She is the best religion editor the
Republic has, to my knowledge, ever had.

Hey!  Didn't I call it right??

:-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

Message: 76241
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Question?
Subject: Billy
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 20:06:32

Re:  During 1990, I was fortunate enough to be Apollo's 150,000th caller. As
a result of that serendipitous achievement, I was awarded special Blue
$tatus.  That's lifetime $tatus with no renewal fees, ever.

Why does this post keep popping up over and over?

Message: 76242
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Answer!
Subject: Dog
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 20:08:46

Re:  How *is* one to choose a church except by the friendliness of the
parishioners and the quality of the baked goods?

The proof is in the pudding!

Message: 76243
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Answer!
Subject: touch tone rates
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 21:45:52

Felix, I don't know about a "one-time" fee to prevent monthly touch-tone(tm)
service charge.  If there is such a thing, either it is well hidden or I
managed to miss the offer.
 
What happens if I move and get  new phone number?  Would the charge be the
equivalent of a few months' fees or a couple of years of fees?

Message: 76244
Author: $ Paul Carelli
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 22:35:52

  I've been over this bible twice now and I can not seem to find the part
about the crucifix being something held sacred by God.  Are you getting
priviledged information?                                             

Message: 76245
Author: $ Paul Carelli
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul Savage
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 22:49:49

  I was not trying to infringe upon you right of expression.  I was merely
trying to find out whether or not you knew the motives behind the artists
creation.   For me if he is simply trying to start a commotion over the
freedom of expression issue that's fine but rather common (e.g. flagburners,
nude dancers...).  On the other hand, if he is trying to convey another
message (like possibly his anger at the crucixion of Jesus, his dislike of
symbolism, something he might share with the big G himself, or some other
such thing) then his work would be at least more unique.  Of course I have
given the artist the benefit of the doubt here, but that you seem to have
not was what provoked my original question.  Does anyone know if the artist
ever gave his reason for the work?   Does anyone care?

Message: 76246
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 23:27:01

I wouldn't give kids "one whole term" on being a parent.  I'd embed it into
the curriculum in much smaller doses over a period of time, like Social
Studies.  So that they didn't miss the message.  After all, it IS "social
studies"!  And of course you can't talk to kids using abstruse psychological
terms.  But you can talk to them in language they can understand, and still
tell them the same thing.

That 10% figure is a bare minimum.  I'd bet more on 25% at least for
different kinds of abuse combined, including emotional.  And even where
"abuse" is not the issue, I'm sure that most of the other 75% or whatever
could benefit in *some* way to make better relationships with their kids.

An outstanding parent will raise a kid to allow him to make the maximum
possible use of his potential.  But the odd thing is that nobody will ever
know if it's achieved or not.  You can only say "I've done my level best."
It's a goal to strive for; but not one to worry about.  A "good-enough"
parent will succeed in raising well-adjusted kids who, like everyone else,
aren't perfect but who can contribute to the world and live reasonably
happy, satisfying lives themselves -- instead of staggering from one
disaster to another as many do.  Barring some innate flaw in the kid, of
course.

What would I teach?  Much of it's implied in my posts.  I suppose I could
organize it and propose a formal agenda.  But that will take longer.

Message: 76247
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/sun tea
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 23:27:53

Thanks for the info about "sun tea".  Have to try this some time.

It's obvious why I've never heard of it before.  Phoenix has the ideal
climate for boiling things in bottles just by standing them in the sun.  But
I'd hate to try it in England...

Message: 76248
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Electromotive force?
Date: 07/01/91  Time: 23:29:25

People who are into computers will be familiar with the little lightning-
flash symbol used to represent a communications link between two systems.
Others may have noticed that that same symbol replaces the slash in the logo
of the group "AC/DC".  But what is the symbol *called*?

The following is from a discussion of alleged Satanism in heavy-metal bands:

     Some vocal Pentecostals and other critics claim that the name of the...
     heavy-metal group, AC/DC, was not inspired by the two types of
     electrical current, alternating and direct, nor by use of the letters
     in common slang as a term for bisexuality.  They insist the letters are
     really an acronym for "Anti-Christ, Devil's Child," or, "After Christ,
     the Devil Comes."  These are claims which those in the music business
     scoff at as absurd.

     Defenders of the band point out that heavy metal is played with loud
     electrical sound, so the true meaning of AC/DC as the group's name is
     obvious.  It is used as an electrical term.  The band's logo even
     includes an electrical volt.

Until I read that, I thought I knew what "volts" were.  I thought you got
them by multiplying ohms and amperes.  But now we know what a volt *looks*
like, as well...

Message: 76249
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: exist
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:20:31

Something first has to exist.

Message: 76250
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Abuse/child
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:28:27

I was abused somewhat but I would imagine that all of us were at sometime or
other as a child.  I was never kicked in the head or threatened with eternal
hell as a child but my Father had his old U.S. Marine belt in a handy place.

It is sometimes difficult for an abused mother or father not to abuse their
children.  Often parents were badly abused when they were children and this
affected their entire life.  Many parents are being abused now by their
employer or another reason.  

It is very difficult to keep in touch with complete sanity while residing in
a fairly insane world.  

Insanities take form in many different ways.  Religion is a type of insanity
and so is drinking alcohol.  It sometimes come down to, "take away the pain,
the pain." 

                                        Rod

Message: 76251
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Abuse II
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:37:27

The amount of people (including children) abuse will go down in direct
proportion to the state of a nation.  This nation is in limbo, so to speak. 
It is the same tired crap decade after decade, the rich buying and selling
the working class, the working class being taken advantage of.

Monopolistic Capitalism serves the few over the sweat of the many.  There
are people who can enjoy perpetual spring on this planet just by jetting
from villa to villa.  The roots of the wealth of this nation are founded in
Robber Barons.

                                        Rod

Message: 76252
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Urine
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:39:30

Satan created urine and drugs.  God created alcohol.

Message: 76253
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Felix/R&G
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:41:43

I'd like to be the religion editor of the Republic.  I even asked to do a
guest column.  But I'd get Daryl's help in writing it.

Message: 76254
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Carelli/crucifix
Date: 07/02/91  Time: 01:44:22

Only if the crucifix glows in the dark, is it sacred.
                                Paul: v666