Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 20, 1990

Mail from Apollo SYSOP
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 21:39:05

Hi Rod
        Are you kidiing about your friend and the auto repo (re:Smitty's)?

Can I get a copy of the police report please!

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:No, I am not kidding about Dwane and altercation with Rankins.  I said it 
 2:just as he told me.  However I did not get ANY opportunity to stop by the 
 3:lot today to see if he brought it as he said he would.  
 4:
 5:Today was shit-kicking busy to say the least.  (and hot).  I worked until 
 6:6:30 P.M.
 7:
 8:I will phone the lot tomorrow and see if it is there.

Mail from Jeff Beck
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:11:48

Wow...ya mean you used the name *I* suggested?  Geez, I almost feel like a
godfather.
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:{Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:Yes, Jasmine liked the name even after she had already picked Sierra.  So 
 2:one day I came home and the kids were calling her Katrina.
 3:
 4:You can be a godfather if you give me the southside of Chicago.
 5:
 6:Chow.
 7:
 8:By the way, we must be blowing John's mind somewhat because it seems that he
 9:has suddenly lost interest in the debate.
10:
11:But maybe we shouldn't be fooled and just wait and see what happens.
12:
13:Jeff L. is the new board philosopher, eh?

Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 67674
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Katrina Starr
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:48:53

That's a nice name, Jeff.  Way to go, Katrina Starr!  Have a good life!
 
Rod, you and Jasmine did well in naming the newborn "Katrina Starr".
 
Hmmm. Should I name a kid "Katrina Starr"?  

(There's $1 for you, Jeff.)

Message: 67675
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Melissa
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 20:58:46

Ok, I'll try.

Message: 67676
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Guest List
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 21:36:22

Ann Oudin
Beauregard Dog
Bill Burkett
Bob Thornburg
Daryl Westfall (unsure)
Gordon Little
James Hawley
Jeff Beck
Jeff Lochansky (Mad-Max)
Jim Lippard
Kim Paskiewicz
Melissa Dee
(( space ))
Mike Carter  (Fang)
(( space ))
Mike Kielsky
Pat Stoddard
Paul Savage
Ralph Blehm
Rod Williams
Roger Mann  (Ok, I'll try)
Shirley Bear
Steven Carls
Todd Reese                      And just maybe Jack Flash  (hope)

Message: 67677
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: birthday
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 22:10:47

Well rod, then next year I'll wish her an other year of health....darn are
you complicated!!!!!!
What did you think? I'd let her get sick or what?
He won't let me give more then one year of health to one person at one time.
(just kidding)
THE MAD MAX

Message: 67678
Author: Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: GT
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 22:12:17

Do we have to bring anything?
I really don't know, some people get offended if you do and some if you
don't. So I figured I'd ask to be safe.
THE MAD MAX

Message: 67679
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Birth
Date: 07/19/90  Time: 22:56:13

Good to hear of someone following their own common sense (about the milk)
instead of swallowing a load of guff from self-appointed "experts".

In Massachusetts, where Sarah was born, I believe I'm right in saying that
midwives actually are prohibited from operating independently.  There has to
be a doctor overseeing the procedure.  Needless to say, the overwhelming
majority of doctors aren't interested in running a flock of midwives and
would rather have the business themselves.

I'm not surprised Jasmine found that "somehow it was always easier at home
than at the hospital".  With a normal uncomplicated birth, it is bound to be
easier for a woman to do something herself that she is perfectly competent
to do, with *support* (that's people just helping and encouraging her)
rather than *intervention* (read "interference").

It's a pity more men haven't been involved in this stuff in the past,
because most guys wouldn't dream of putting up with the kind of interference
and paternalism women have historically gotten from many doctors.  A guy
would tell the fellow to go take a running jump.  Only most guys were
content to leave it all to someone else.  I remember flying to Phoenix with
some guy who was taking a three-month job out here, leaving his wife at home
to have a baby.  His comment was "well, I figure women are better at doing
that stuff than men are".  Actually he was right, they are, but try telling
the doctors that!

Message: 67680
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: GT/Mad Max
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 00:25:38

        No, just bring yourself....  Tom R. Slone (The original TRS-80 BBS)
has everything.    No fooling and no kidding...   We just want you to have
some fun (Don't tell Roger)....

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 67681
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: baby's name
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:16:01

Well, I'm glad you liked the name *Katrina* so much that you decided to use
the name *Katrina* to name your baby, *Katrina* (or Kat, for short).  
 
I'll collect the seventy-five cents at the GT.

Message: 67682
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau Dog
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:18:41

Well, I can only take credit for the Katrina, in Katrina Starr.  But I
really like the Starr in Katrina Starr, so I feel that my contribution,
though partial, in naming Katrina Starr, was helpful, in my attempt to
suggest a name (Katrina) for Katrina Starr.  
 
Let's see...that's $3.50 so far...

Message: 67683
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeff L./GT
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:20:16

Yes, condoms; lots of 'em.

Message: 67684
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: ANN!
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 06:08:11

 "It was of course, a fluke on Paul's team part!"
A fluke? A FLUKE????
 It was called superior playing, that's what it was! Now admit it!
Sheesh! What a sore loser!
(smile, of course)

Message: 67685
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Me
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 09:44:25

Thanks to all for the birthday wishes.  It's nice to feel loved.
(Leave it, Jeff)
Why should I have waited until the 25th, Rod?
I like the name as well.  I wont mention it since I am currently unemployed
and don't feel like giving my money to charity.

Message: 67686
Author: $ Gary Jones
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: computer talk
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 11:44:44

I've been working with computers for the past 32 years (not bragging) and
have always been amused by the names and sounds gived to various symbols
computer people use in everyday talk.

For Example, the file path and filename
     ^MOD400>SID>CLM_NET
was once pronounced by someone I knew as
"Hat Mod 400 arrow sid arrow clam underbar net."

another symbol used in various mainframe editors I've worked on is the
exclamation point (!) commpnly pronounced "Bang."

I`ve heard the asterisk called a "Splat."

Anyway, today I ran into the computer poe}im in the next post today and
wanted to share it:

Message: 67687
Author: $ Gary Jones
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Computer talk
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 11:46:08

From Brian Silverio, Bull HN Computer Techniques Billerica MA 7/17/90.
                                                                     
Subject:   A poem to brighten your day                                  
     The following poem is excerpted from Lee Leitner's "Viewpoint" column 
which is featured in a bimonthly periodical for Prime INFORMATION users 
called INFOCUS magazine. The original authors were Fred Bremmer and Steve 
Kroese of Calvin College & Seminary of Grand Rapids, MI.

(FYI - a "wahka" is the decidedly "proper" (by popular vote) name for the 
characters ">" and "<".)
                                                                     
To wit, it is -   "...a poem we think is about the lowly wahka. Maybe. 
Well,   perhaps---we're really not sure what the poem actually is about. 
Here it goes:"                                                            
                                                                     
    "WAHKA"                       ( Transliterated: )                       
  
                                                                     
    <>!*''#              Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash,        
    ^@`$$-               Caret at back-tick dollar dollar dash,      
    !*'$_                Bang splat tick dollar under-score,         
    %*<>#4               Percent splat waka waka number four,        
    &)../                Ampersand right-paren dot dot slash,        
    |{~~SYSTEM HALTED    Vertical-bar curly-bracket tilde tilde CRASH!

Message: 67688
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gary/poem
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 12:05:44

Thanks for the poem ! One question though. Why is <> waka waka instead
of waka akaw or waka kawa or some such.

Message: 67689
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mod400 !!!
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:09:37

Lessee... Gary Jones, Roger Mann, Gordon Little, and I all know about these
arcane systems... how strange!

Gary, are you Phoenix-area?  If so, are you coming to the GT?

Message: 67690
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: News Today
Subject: Heatwave!!!
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:24:10

From the Repugnant today:  HEAT WAVE TURNS BRITONS JOLLY MAD.

     A hot and unusually dry summer has Britons choking on pollution,
     swatting insects and snitching on their water-wasting neighbors.

     Joggers and the elderly have been warned to avoid strenuous exercise.

     Hordes of biting insects are plaguing everybody.

     A pharmacist said that "the shop is full of people complaining about
     the heat and saying that they are being bitten to death."

     A ban on watering gardens and washing cars begins Saturday; neighbors
     who spot people doing either can report suspects to local authorities,
     who can impose fines.

     But it wasn't until a visitor lost his temper and punched an attendant
     in Oxford's world-famous Botanical Garden, "a place considered only
     slightly less sacred than a church in England", that the seriousness of
     the heat wave became apparent to all.

And now for the punch line:

     Temperatures have been in the 80s on seven of the past eight days.

Message: 67691
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:26:07

I might be harping on this birth subject a bit, but last night there was a
*heck* of a coincidence.

I'd just finished entering that last post to you, logged off Apollo, and sat
down to look at the Repugnant.  Just five minutes later, I found an article
about a woman named Suzanne Arms who was visiting Scottsdale.  She has been
campaigning for better childbirth options, and in particular the issue you
raised -- breastfeeding.

When faced with a situation calling for skills, participation, and perhaps
decisions, I usually think it's a good idea to get educated on whatever the
topic is.  So seven years ago when we found out Jane was pregnant, one of my
earliest reactions was to wander downstairs into the den and see what books
we might have on the subject of pregnancy, childbirth, babies and children.
Though they were a bit thin on the ground, there was something.  (I also
have a book on CB radios, though I've never owned one, and a couple on UFOs,
though I've never seen one.)  The "library" consisted of (1) Spock's classic
"Baby and Child Care", (2) a Swedish book on fetal development with some
mrvelous photos, titled "A Child is Born", and (3) a book called "Immaculate
Deception", by that same Suzanne Arms.  I'd never read it before, but I read
it then.  I credit her book chiefly with forewarning and forearming us about
the nature of childbirth in America as it was in the early 70s (it has
changed somewhat since), and giving us the information we needed to make the
right decisions about a once-in-a-lifetime (so far, for us) event.

Message: 67692
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: News Today
Subject: Smitty's
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:28:29

It was interesting to hear the account of Ric Rankins's behavior in another
situation where he threatened someone with deadly force.  Interesting, and
well worth reading; but it shouldn't change anybody's opinions about the
case.

The account *ought* to dispose of those people who have attacked Smitty's
based on the ill-considered emotional view that Rankins is some kind of
heroic martyr.  I don't know if it will, because there will be plenty within
the black community to argue that Rankins pulled a gun to "defend himself
against persecution", or some such dialectic.  I did, however, drive past
that Smitty's today and I noticed there weren't any pickets there.

The account *may* make some people say "See?  He was a dangerous criminal,
so he deserved what he got."  If they say that, they would be exonerating
the Smitty's people for the wrong reason.  Negligent homicide is certainly
justifiable on the grounds of selg/defense, but not on the simple grounds
that somebody is an undesirable human being.

What the account *does* do is add further credibility to the assertion that
Rankin threatened the Smitty's employees.  But I don't think this assertion
needs much bolstering.  Several witnesses are in broad agreement that he
threatened to kill somebody, and specifically that he shouted "Give me the
gun", or something very like it.  That isn't in dispute.

To me the issue is, and always has been, confined to what happened in the
few minutes between the time the altercation began and the time it ended
with the arrival of police.  The crucial question is whether this man
presented a deadly threat in the minds of the Smitty's employees AT THE TIME
THAT THEY SET ON HIM.  Not previously, but actually at the time.

If the answer is yes, then they were justified in going into panic mode to
counter the threat.  I still think a company should be responsible for
proper training of employees expected to do "security" work -- like teaching
them *not* to use the bar lock on the neck, which can be fatal.  But at
least the employees did the best they knew how in the circumstances, and you
can't ask more than that.

But if the answer is no, as it could be if Rankins was clearly trying to
*leave* the scene when he was set upon, we effectively have a case of people
trying to detain and "punish" him for a *previous* threat that no longer
existed; and this is not "self defense".

It has been suggested that they were trying to stop him from fleeing the
"scene of a crime"; effectively a citizen's arrest.  But that was not their
intent, not to begin with at least, because Marvin Davis, the store manager,
stated that his reason for following Rankin outside was to tell him they
didn't want him coming back.

Up to now, most accounts printed in the Republic, when carefully examined,
have tended to support the "punishment after the event" scenario.  This view
was indicated by Wednesday's summary of the police report, in which Rankins,
after yelling for his gun and threatening to kill somebody, appeared to have
changed his mind and was sitting in the cab urging the cab driver to drive
away when the employees intervened to *stop* the cab and drag him out.  This
view was reinforced by several points in other accounts, including
allegations that the employees made references to "kicking [Rankins's] ass"
and threatened another bystander.

However, in today's account the plot thickens.  The manager Davis states
that Rankins did not appear to be trying to leave, but to be trying to get a
gun from the back seat; that only Rankins's body was inside the cab door,
with his feet on the ground outside; and that the driver started the cab by
accident by letting his foot off the brake.

If this turns out to be true, Davis's and the other employees' actions would
seem a lot more reasonable, so I might have to eat Smitty's cake after all.
The accounts printed in the newspaper are clearly conflicting.  What strikes
me is that if Davis is saying this now, then it ought to be in the police
report.  And if it is in the police report, then it ought to have been
reflected in the newspaper account published on Wednesday.

These are two separate "oughts", and there is not only a question about
which account is true, but also about which side the Republic is on and
whether the newspaper has accurately reflected what the police report said,
or whether it has expertly fueled a continuing controversy.  I hope we can
get the text of that police report posted on this board, or at least the
most relevant excerpts.

I'd have to agree with Rod that crime won't go away without some basic
changes in society.  However, I doubt that certain classes of people will
stop stealing, or using violence on others, because they get lots of
financial handouts.  I do think people "learn" that violence is justified
when they experience violence always being used to solve problems that could
be solved in other ways.  That's why we are justified in taking steps to
deter people from being the first to use unnecessary violence in a
confrontation, or from being the first to escalate a trivial aggression (a
push, an insult) into something much more serious.

Message: 67696
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Question?
Subject: sines
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 20:30:23

I don't have the foggiest intuitive notion of where the sine function comes
from.  I understand that it can be represented in various ways, for example,
given a real number s representing an arc on a unit circle, a second
coordinate of T is given to the terminal point of the arc, representing sine
s.  But so what?  What is the meaning of the sine function?  How did it
originate and for what purpose?

Message: 67697
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Question?
Subject: Melissa/cheek
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 20:33:48

Who do you think I am, Benny Hill?
 
BTW, if I told you you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?
 
Now you're supposed to ask me how I found the little native girl in the tall
grass.

Message: 67698
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: GT
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:21:05

I checked the user log this evening and lo and behold there was Dean
Hathaway's name.  I'll bet he will come to GT.

Melissa said that she though Peter Petrisko had something going that night
at his Gallery X, located at 800 W. Madison in beautiful downtown Phoenix.

Well, I am supposed to be in a musical play around that time at Gallery X. 
I haven't checked the date but I called Peter this evening and he was
neither at home or work.

Message: 67699
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon/babies
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:29:22

I enjoyed your posts on child birth.  If people only knew the advantages to
breast feeding their babies, oh my.  

Breast feeding not only helps the baby but the mother as well.  Everytime
the baby sucks, the tummy of the mother is pulled in.  Jasmine has had 8
children and has always breast fed for at least a year and has always had a
flat tummy.

So many women have told me that they wouldn't breast feed because they
didn't want to ruin their shape.  Little do they realize  that by not breast
feeding they are ruining their shape.  Oh well.

Also, I have never had to get up in the middle of the night to feed a child,
to heat the formula, to walk aimlessly around holding junior and all of the
other gross things that go with it.

Instead, Jasmine pulls the baby to her breast and all have a peaceful sleep.
She is well aware that a small baby is near and not to roll over onto it.

The perfect nipple is on the females breast and its shape and resistance
factor will help mold the babies face for later life.

I'll just bet that Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones was not breast fed. 
And neither was the rest of his band from the looks of that motley crew. 

Message: 67700
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:32:13

It's just a neat date, that's all.

Actually dear, dates are just made up and do not really repeats its
former actions in this universe of ours.

The VERY FIRST July 25th was in fact the only July 25th that ever existed. 
The rest were just copies and are solely for communication purposes.

About being unemployed:  Pray for war.
 

Message: 67701
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon/Smittys
Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:42:30

I can agree with what you say.  But just as the only way to stop harmful
drug use is education it is the same for theft and violence.

If you can show a person that stealing something will always result in
higher prices for everyone then that is a good start.  All I hear is "steal
something and you go to jail".  

I see the large Israel style Kibbutz as the answer to many of our problems. 
As World Peace is becoming more of a possibility so are mass lay-offs of
employees who work in defense plants and the like.

Something has to be done to solve the homeless problem.  If you would like
to see what the homeless look like and talk like then come to Peter's
Gallery X for one of his many openings.  Call 420-9390 for a list of his
next opening.  It is a recording, unless he is there and decides to answer
the phone.

It would appear that with mass layoffs the homeless situation will worsen.

I guess the quick 10 minute profit idea of U.S. corporations looks silly
when compared to the Japanese way.
@ATDT2461432
A/ BUSY