Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 4-5, 1987




*=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

Message: 1474
Author: $ Michelle Reynolds
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 14:20:26

No Rod, my turtles are GIRLS.
Does this make me kinda bi-sexual?
I mean I also love to kiss my
boyfriend. Totally Weird. Well,
we will start wearing condoms on
our tongues! Right Cliff?

Message: 1475
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: JT
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:25:36

I would think that would be a real incentive for you.
I know how you enjoy ripping apart people less intelligent than yourself.

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Message: 44875
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 14:57:23

  We are born knowing how to use language.  The capacity to
recognize syntax, to organize and deploy words into 
intelligible sentences, is innate in the human mind.  We are
programmed to identify patterns and generate grammer.  There
are invariant and variable structures in speech that are
common to all of us.  As chicks are endowed with an innate
capacity to read information in the shapes of overhanging
shadows, telling hawk from other birds, we can identify the
meaning of grammer in a string of words, and we are born 
this way.  According to Chomsky, who has examined it as a
biologist looks at live tissue, language "must simply be a
biological property of the human mind."  The universal
attributes of language are genetically set; we do not learn
them, or make them up as we go along.
  We work at this all our lives, and collectively we give it
life, but we do not exert the least control over language,
not as individuals or committees or academies or 
governments.  Language, once it comes alive, behaves like an
active, motile organism.  Parts of it are always being 
changed, by a ceasless activity to which all of us are 
committed; new words are invented and inserted, old ones
have their meaning altered and abandoned.  New ways of 
stringing words and sentences together come into fashion and
vanish again, but the underlying structure simply grows,

Message: 44876
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 15:03:44

enriches itself, expands.  Individual languages age away and
seem to die, but they leave progeny all over the place.
Separate languages can exist side by side for centuries
without touching each other, maintaining their integrity 
with the vigor of incompatible tissues.  At other times, two
languges may come together, fuse, replicate, and give rise
to nests of new tongues.
  If language is at the core of our social existence, 
holding us together, housing us in meaning, it may also be
safe to say that art and music are functions of the same
universal, genetically determined mechanism.  These are not
bad things to do together.  If we are social creatures 
because of this, and therefore like ants, I for one (or 
should I say we for one?) do not mind.

Message: 44877
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: James/final
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:51:27

Our conversation about men/women is done with James. No use going on/ We'll
never agree and both of us know that. Like I said perhaps your right or I'm
right or both. No doubt, in the furture we'll find another subject to banter
about. Anyway - I hope you are having a fun 4th of july --- ANN

Message: 44878
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Alan/farmers
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:55:29

You know - I have to agree with everything you said. I don't like it, but
can't do too much without giving up a real big part of my life . All causes
take a lot of time and effort and I guess in all honesty, that is one of the
lesser of my "dislikes" in society. But there has to be an end to madness
sometimes!! --- ANN

Message: 44879
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: To All
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:56:25

Well, I'm off to see the fireworks. Have a happy 4th and a safe one. -- ANN


Message: 1477
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Question?
Subject: Ripping people apart
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 23:04:01

What are you talking about, Burkhart?  I do not enjoy "ripping apart people
less intelligent" than myself.  I simply assume that people are capable of
bettering themselves, and that their stupid ideas are manifestations of
ignorance or prejudice, not of congenital stupidity.  And I hold people
responsible for their stupid ideas, and I do not shrink from calling them
what they are.  Sometimes it is irritating or even painful to have a
prejudice exposed or shattered, but that's what you get for being prejudiced
around me.

Message: 1478
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 00:01:48

But you enjoy it.

Message: 1479
Author: $ Mark Adkins
Category: Question?
Subject: Black Castle
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:39:13

I tried to call it (you said you needed support in a discussion on the music
board), but got garbage characters after the carrier.

Message: 1480
Author: $ Mark Adkins
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: DavidDavid
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:43:12

I once knew a girl who liked chewing bones, but only using rawhide condoms.
(tonight is my night for questionable jokes.)

Message: 1481
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: JT/prejudice
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 03:57:00

That certainly sounded impressive, but you described yourself the way you
want to see yourself, not the way you really are.

Message: 1482
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: David/ripping
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:33:33

See what I mean about James? HE only rips people apart LESS intelligent than
himself! HA!

Message: 1483
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: James
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:35:35

You honestly do not think your prejudiced?

Message: 1484
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Black Castle
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 15:19:21

Did you log on at 300 baud?  No parity, 8 bits, one stop bit?

Message: 1486
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 17:20:42

300 baud reminds me of those old Heinz ketchup commercials.



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Message: 44881
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod's Question
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 22:18:09

  I don't know, maybe something patriotic. 
See you later,
   Dean

Message: 44882
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Farmers
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 22:32:41

   I think its a bit like getting someone off an addictive drug to try
cutting farm subsidies. The farm products markets have been tampered with by
the government that the farmers need subsidies and price supports to get by,
so we pay a part of our food costs in taxes which are then paid out to
farmers through various government agencies.
   Ideally the government should get out of it and let farm products be sold
on the open market and establish fair prices based on supply and demand. We
would probably end up paying more at the market but it would be a fair
exchange which would make a profit for the producer.
   The problem is convincing the 'user' that he should go cold turkey and
take a chance that he not survive in honest competition. The government
programs which wrecked the nations farm economy were begun as an answer to
the fluctuations in commodity prices which made farming a speculative
venture, the cure has proven worse than the disease though since the farmer
is still not assured of any profit and is stuck with a type of welfare
program to keep him in business.

Message: 44883
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Answer!
Subject: Alan
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 22:58:48

No, the statement, "There are no absolute truths" is an absolute falsehood.

Message: 44884
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 23:00:24

Very well, if you wish to concede the argument you are welcome to do so.
Since I have offered justification for my position and you have merely stuck
by your position dogmatically, even though it is wrong, I take your message
as a concession, even though you are too pig-headed to admit that you are
backing down.

Message: 44886
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Economic rights
Date: 07/04/87  Time: 23:16:06

As some of you may know, President Reagan has recently proposed what he
calls an "economic bill of rights," which is, well, an economic bill of
rights, calling for lower taxes, lower government spending, and so forth. 
Well, today, in the Democratic response to the President's weekly radio
address, a congressman said that he agrees that an economic bill of rights
is needed, but that his conception of the "rights" it should guarantee
include the right to a high-paying job in good working conditions, the right
to own a home (not the right to own property, mind you, but the right to own
a home, presumably absent the need to pay for it), the right to go to
college, and so forth.  Of course, one can infer the sort of policies that
Democrats would call for in protecting these "rights"--higher taxes and big
government expenditures to pay for all those homes and college educations,
and maybe even a massive program to give civil-service jobs to all those
people who need high-paying jobs in pleasant surroundings.  Of course, this
suffers from the typical fallacy of the welfare state--it disregards the
fact that productivity is going to be less in an economy in which the
government, rather than free men and women, control resources and property.

One can only hope that the Democrats do not apply this principle to other
rights.  I can see it now:  "Freedom of the press doesn't mean that big
companies can print whatever they want, it means that every individual is
entitled to a morning paper and half an hour of evening news."  And to
insure this, of course, the government would confiscate all printing presses
and TV transmitters to make sure the news is provided.

Message: 44887
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 00:01:06

Good point.
There's a prevelant attitude that it is immoral to not have the government
provide for everyone.  The fact is that it is immoral to take away peoples'
freedoms, including the freedom Ann mentioned to "control one's money." 
When the government taxes to provide for everyone, they are really doing
more harm than good by trying to do something the free market would do
better.

Message: 44888
Author: $ Carol Graham
Category: Answer!
Subject: da Hamma
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:14:49

Go South on 70th Street to the light at Thomas.
Count
Count
and count again!
 
It is not sensored!
 
But my thoughts while I am dying there are censored!
 
Carol->

Message: 44889
Author: $ Carol Graham
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT/Ann
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:19:59

Ann conceded nothing, as far as I can see, she didn't
even imply concession - merely a weariness from throwing
facts against the brick wall of prejudice.
 
Why, James, is it that when I fill out the forms for
government contracts in my/hubbie's business that we get
extra points if we hire minorities and a GREAT BIG POINT
if the business should happen to be Woman-Owned?  I resent
that - It does show that we are considered part of the
great minority group. Why should my being a woman give our
business a great big PLUS?
 
Also, you really don't know the facts about the wage/salary
discrepencies. Ask around. Take a poll. Face the facts.
 
Carol->

Message: 44890
Author: $ Mark Adkins
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann's Dad
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:35:37

Naw, it's too easy. Oh well, I will anyway;
 
Your Dad must have an awfully long tongue...

Message: 44891
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod and Radio
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 08:30:22

No, Rod, the reason I wouldn't have you on is that I would not be able to
guarantee that you wouldn't go nuts and act like, well, like Rod.  Of
course, I'm taking
chance with Dennis McKinsey, but we'll see what happens..
     As for worship, what do you have against it?  You obviously worship
yourself, so why get mad at God for demanding worship.  He's a whole lot
more worthy of it than you, that's for sure!
     Also, you like to make it sound as if atheism is some sweeping world
movement that is rolling millions into its cause.  Actually, practical
atheism has always been the norm - most religious people are practical
atheists in that they do not live their lives as if God really existed. 
Indeed, most of the "terrible" crimes committed by "religious" people that
you like to point out were committed by practical atheists.  Then again,
maybe the word "religious" people up above was the wrong choice.  To be
religious one does not need to believe in a god - indeed, given your passion
on the subject, you would be accurately called a "religious" atheist, as you
seem to see it as some kind of cause to be pursued.  Anyway, if I want
another atheist I've got lots of choices - even Tom Leykis said he'd
participate if I wanted to.  I think I am being very fair with the whole
series, as there will be 3 atheists and 2 Christian apologists.  Anyway,
have a nice day, Rod, while all us Christians worship God because He is
worthy of that worship.

Message: 44892
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Dean/farmers
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:11:22

You put that all very nicely. I did want to mention - those farmers on the
whole that we talked to in Wyoming actually gloated they were getting paid
for nothing for the last 30 years!One told us that a government agent hadn't
been buy to check on things for 15 years! God - I wanted to say something,
but didn't dare!! It's such a close knit town and any outsiders are treated
as such. Even though I am a wife of a native, they looked upon me as a
wierd person being from the city. Women back there don't dye their hair
blond and have very long fingernails - and they keep "their place!!!" I do
all that - except "keep my place!" So they don't/would not consider anything
I said to have much value expecially if it hit their pocketbooks!! - ANN

Message: 44893
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: James/pigheaded
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:17:48

I did not back down, I backed off!! You have NOT changed my mind IN THE
LEAST!! How could I possibly learn a thing from you if you persist in stupid
name calling? There's a lot of people on this board that I might not agree
with or them me, but they discuss things in an intelligent manor. Therefore,
I pause and take thought at what they are saying. But I can't even agree
with you without you coming back with sarcasum. Who needs it? Not I!!! - ANN

Message: 44894
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Carol/J.T.
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:20:22

Thanks for the "more facts" post. I'm sure this will go over Jame's head
though. I don't know yet (after all our posts) where he gets his facts, but
you can bet he doesn't "ask around" or "take a poll"!! -- ANN

Message: 44895
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mark/dad
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:22:08

Boy - I missed something here - didn't understand your last post to me about
my dad's tongue. Please explain. Does that have anything to do with Cliff's
Cockatiel? Hahahahahahaha. -- Ann

Message: 44896
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: To who can answer
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:23:41

Can anyone tell me what religion Hitler belonged to. This is not a trivia
question - I don't know! I figured he might be a Lutheran!?

Message: 44897
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 15:06:26

  Although we are by all odds the most social of all social
animals - more interdependent, more attached to each other,
more inseparable in our behavior than bees - we do not often
feel our conjoined intelligence.  Perhaps, however, we are
linked in circuits for the storage, processing, and 
retrieval of information, since this appears to be the most
basic and universal of all human enterprises.  It may be our
biological function to build a certain kind of (termite-like)
Hill.  We have access to all the information of the 
biosphere, arriving as elementary units in the stream of 
solar photons.  When we have learned how these are
rearranged against randomness, to make, say, springtails,
quantum mechanics, and the late quartets, we may have a 
clearer notion how to proceed.  The circuitry seems to be 
there, even if the current is not always on.
...
  It is one of our problems that as we become crowded 
together, the sounds we make to each other, in our
increasingly complex communications systems, become more
random-sounding, accidental or incidental, and we have 
trouble selecting meaningful signals out of the noise.  One
reason is, of course, that we do not seem able to restrict 
our communication to information-bearing, relevant signals.
Given any new technology for transmitting information, we

Message: 44898
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 15:07:28

seem bound to use it for great quantities of small talk.  We
are only saved by music from being overwhelmed by nonsense.

Message: 44899
Author: Jacqueline Mitchell
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: to Ann Qudin
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 18:56:22

Jesus is actually pronounced (Hey-suce).  It is Mexican.  (Jesus) is
actually the way the English or Americans pronounce it.  It is a mexican
name.

Message: 44900
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Denton
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 19:25:30

Denton is an M.D.  Bethell's review should be taken with the additional
knowledge that Bethell does not understand natural selection (see Stephen
Jay Gould's response to his article in Harper's, it is in one of Gould's
first three collections of essays from Natural History).  Montagu is a quite
reputable source, so Denton's book is very probably worth reading.
(I assume this is "Evolution: Theory in Crisis".)
   It sounds to me like Denton's book is a critique of Darwinism, not of
evolution.  If so, it is not a defense of creationism (which is not a
scientific theory at all).

Message: 44901
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: JT
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 20:17:16

   Its kind of strange that he can be so irritating regardless of what he is
saying. Not long ago he was saying the exact opposite of everything he says
now and was just as overbearing and conceited sounding as he is now if not
more so. I agree with most of what he is saying now to some degree since I
had those views before he switched over to them, but his delivery is almost
enough to make anyone reconcider agreeing with him on anything.
   See you later,
     Dean

Message: 44902
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Politics
Subject: Farmers
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 20:32:32

  My wife and I both come from farm families and have relatives still
farming today. My relatives seem to avoid the government programs where
possible and complain about them a lot while hers take every possible
advantage of them and complain about them even more. My relatives are from
the northwest and deal in a variety of crops while hers are from the midwest
and raise mostly grain crops.
  If someone were to put together a private service to advise them on which
crops to grow in what quantity at a given time to make a profit so that they
didn't overproduce some crops and lose money on them while underproducing
others it would do a lot more good than the government price supports and
surplus food disposal system we have now. It would take a nationwide
database with input from enough farmers to be able to get an overall picture
of how much of each crop was being planted. Someone would have to find a way
to tell thier lobbyists and other political helpers that they were no longer
needed to promote and administer the farm welfare state however.
  See you later,
    Dean

Message: 44903
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: James White
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 22:15:53

I haven't gone 'nuts' in years......I could be likened to what I previously
stated, a counterpart of a Southern Baptist Preacher.  I have that right. 
You christians seem to think that you are the only ones who can 'bandwagon'
but you have another 'think' coming.   I find your god gross.
  I am NOT religious in any way, the thought sickens me.
James, can't you understand that anything that wants or needs worship from
its creations would have to be touched in the head?  Of course if you are
right and a creator exists, ya know, the one who designed the universe, well
just the way he placed our earth in relation to our sun shows signs of
stupidity.  I could have done so much better.
  Just as JT likes to attack  those he considers in error, so do I and hey,
what can I say, this god guy is the sickest one I know.
  Tell you what, why don't we grab a Pepsi together some evening and have a
nice pleasant chat......recall that Tim Toy & I had one....and I did not
breath fire and devour him.
  Your move.
                                Rod

Message: 44904
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ann/Mark/lick
Date: 07/05/87  Time: 22:17:28

You stated that your dad could lick James dad and Mark replied that your dad
must have a long tongue.   Got it now?