Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 25, 1987



*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

Message: 1617
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Writers Cramp
Subject: Story board
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 05:44:07

  I remember, way back when, when the subboards were added to Apollo, 
and
there was a story board at that time.  I got kind of interesting, 
with
earthquakes, and the Alamos (the Catholic haters) declaring Dan Rather 
the
anti-Christ.  BUT... while I was gone for a few days, someone, and 
I think
it was either Rod or Peter Petrisko (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) 
did
SOMETHING, and from what I understand, pretty much sabatoged the 
story.  I
think Cliff finally deleted the whole mess.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 1618
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: James/Art
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 14:25:42

If us mealy-mouthed little critics have to look at your art, then 
we have
business judging your work.

        So there!

Message: 1619
Author: $ Michelle Reynolds
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Mike H.
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 16:47:56

Where did you get into a fight?
My friends got into a fight
last night in Tempe, was it you
that they beat up? I mean, if it
wa....Why did you have to keep
swinging your leather jacket in
their face?

Message: 1620
Author: $ Michelle Reynolds
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Zak on Cliff
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 16:50:39

Oh Lord...
 
That looked so much like him, I could have totally died on the spot.
SERIOUSLY!!! That really did look
like him. (You did forget the BIG
ears thou)....
 
JUST KIDDING CLIFF!

Message: 1621
Author: $ Michelle Reynolds
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann on Art
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 16:53:48

I also vote for an Art board.
 
(just had to join in all the fun)

Message: 1622
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Michelle
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 17:27:32

Thanks for the vote and good to have you back. Did you go on a vacation? 
ANN

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Bulletin Board entered *=*

Message: 45319
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jim White
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 00:29:48

Please, please if you are going to continue this christian talk at least get
it right, it is Jesus the Christ, not Jesus Christ,  Christ was not his last
name, it is a title, got that...title.
                        Thank you for your patience,
                        Rod

Message: 45320
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Carol Graham
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 00:50:32

"Good question Carol", I fumed, "God is picking on me and he won't show
hisself so I can 'pop 'im a good one'."
  "So, why does you blame 'im then, what's the point?", carol protested.
  "Aw, gee, I says, God's been picking on me since I was thirteen and now
that I'm all grewn up, I'd just like to return the flavor, that's all!."
  Carol smiles, pats my hand, and asks, "But why since thirteen, what
happened Rod, you can tell ole Carol Poo, we may even have a book on the
subject where I work?"
  "Shucks Carol", I whined, "it's too embarasing for me to talk about it to
a woman, can't we just forget it?" 
  "Rod", pleads Carol, "God loves you, He loves every wart and dimple you
got, he made you Rod, give Him a chance"
  "Well", sez I, "What must I do in order to make total amends, ya know,
call off the war?"
  "Glad you asked, Rod, it is so very, very simply, it requires hardly any
effort at all, give it a try, please be willing?"
  "Shucks," I pouted, putting my head between my knees, "Okay, tell me, I'll
listen."
   Carol, my friend, nods, she nods that special way, showing the wisdom in
her features, "Look Rod, Accept Gods number one, numero uno, son, Jesus
Christ himself as your personal savior, that's all there is to it, nothing
more and you will see marvelous changes take place in your life."
  "But Carol," protested I, "Why do you think I named my first born,
'Christian Angelica, I already did that, it don't work except as a

Message: 45321
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Carol
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 01:04:46

temporary salve.  I was content when I was a Christian, it was real nice
just knowing that Everything would be handled for me and all I had to do was
believe in Jesus the Christ.  But I noticed things that bothered me, for
instance I had read in the Bible (I have read the NT from cover to cover
many times) that it was the chareltons, the fakers, who gave long winded
prayers in the houses of worship, and Carol, everywhere I went that is what
I saw among Christians.  Being with them for a spell I noted they had a
certain attitude, one of pride, of damnation towards ANY belief other than
their own.  Still, a Christian, I brushed the dust from my sandles and
chastised them for being 'brainwashed goons' ones that really didn't know
what to believe except what they had been taught.  I pointed out that into
this life they came, void of any belief at all and then the programming
begins, some are Mormon (heaven forbid, did I say a nasty word; to some I
did?) some are Muslims and many others.  Each belief they are correct and
many will argue it to the death, but if you examine each and EVERY religious
doctrine, you will notice they all have one thing in common,  NO, not the
idea of a all powerful god, but you will notice that it is all ancient dogma
that was passed down through the ages and they are all full of rituals and
superstitions that aren't in the least necessary for the growth and
continuance of life, period!  NONE OF IT IS NECESSARY.  Even if a god did
exist, it does not matter.  No god in its right mind would want to be
worshipped other than maybe, seeing its creations have fun and live together
in peace and harmony.  We have a pig sty here and for as many borders as we
have, we have many more religions and each religion is in itself another

Message: 45322
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Carol
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 01:12:06

BORDER.  They, the religions of the world are separations, divisions, if you
will and will remain so as long as people are superstitious, gullible and 
afraid of life.
  Carol, I ask questions and until someone answers them I keep asking, got 
that?  Besides, this religious stuff seems so old and tired, not to forget 
redundant, redundant, and you can't answer any of it, none.
  When the majority of the globe are evolutionists then the divisions will 
stop, the petty arguing and we can then get on with building and working 
together.  When religious churches no longer exist but neighborhood 
community centers do then will we see some straight shooting with really 
helping the unfortunate of the world.  If just one healer existed there 
would be no hospitals, but there isn't.  So, when you CAN answer the 
questions I 've been asking for three years, and answer them satisfactorily
then I'll be content.  Yes, I know you believe in an eternal hell, you have 
expressed that before and you probably also believe that the human animal 
are the only animals who have 'real' feelings, sorta goes together.
  It is never to late to learn, Carol, nor to late to change.  I suggest 
that you look deep into your mind and throw away that fear.  By the way, the
meal is on me, eat hearty."
  "Aaaaaarrrrrrrggggggggg!" blurps Carol.


I'm sitting, facing the door, anxiously awaiting the appearance of Rev.
James White, Christian extraordinary, I have a Pepsi and a 7-Up sitting
on the table, the light drink for him.  He is not late, I am early.
  Since I don't know what he looks like, I just keep looking for signs of
a super-Christian or at least what I believe one looks like.
  My prayers were soon answered as a man entered, toting a black book,
with a white cross on the front.  I knew this to be James as who else
would walk into the Devil House carrying such an item.
  "Sit down over here", I yelled, "Take a load off"
  "God bless you", he replied, "Don't mind if I do"
  "Which god ya got in mind", sez I? "There are so many to choose from."
  "Why the One and only True God, Jehovah, who else?" "By the Holy Blood
of Jesus, I am here with Him in my heart."
  "Is the pay good", I inquire?  "Or is it minimum wages?"
  "The monetary pay is almost nothing but the spiritual pay is ever-
lasting reward with my God"  "Jesus is Lord, He is come."
  "How long have you had this problem, James," I ask?
  "James, who is that?"  "My name is Bob"
  "Well excuse me Bob, but would you mind parking your butt somewhere
else, I have a meeting with James and take Jehovah with you."


Message: 45325
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 02:43:03

 
  Why not

Message: 45326
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 02:59:40

Because

Message: 45327
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: In search of
Subject: Last few
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 05:37:39

  Gee, how can I follow those?
 
  Anyway, yes, formally it *is* Jesus >the< Christ, sort of like 
Kermit the
Frog.  (Sorry, couldn't resist!)  But generally, the "the" is omitted.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 45328
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Hard/Software
Subject: Multitasking
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 05:38:42

  Multitasking enables a computer to screw up more than one thing 
at a time.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 45329
Author: $ James White
Category: Religion
Subject: Rod
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 07:44:14

I wouldn't expect you, Rod, to realize that "Jesus Christ" is a common
designation in the Scriptures.  Indeed, I firmly believe that its 
frequency
far exceeds the "Jesus the Christ" you insist on.  I personally don't 
think
its all that important, but just for accuracy's sake...
James>>>

Message: 45330
Author: Billi Idyll
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Jim White
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 09:13:49

        I finally stopped laughing and managed to ease my way back 
up onto
my chair and faced Jim White.  "I can mention Homer in the same breath 
with
 search of the
Trojan War,' Homer related a large number of facts in his work -- easily as
many facts as the NT.  Furthermore, I'd assert, histext is more objective
because he did not have a personal stake in relating it.  Face it, those who
wrote the gospels weren't there at the time, and they had to justify their
faith through the text they produced."
        Jim's fork, heavily laden with cake, stopped halfway between his
plate and mouth.  "However," I continued, "you're still not getting the
point about Jesus' obscurity.  He was a JEWISH messiah, but Paul turned him
into a universal saviour.  Furthermore, Europeans turned him into the 'Great
White Hope,' then impressed their religion on the rest of the peoples of the
world."
        "Even more obscure than Jesus, however," I continued, "are the
Essenes.  According to the information in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the
philosophy Jesus espoused is very Essene in nature -- and the supposition
that his 'lost years' and time in the desert were spent at an Essene
monastery is probably correct.  While this does not blunt the importance of
his message, it does call his sole authorship into question."
        "But," I conceded, "I'll allow you Jesus' life, and the fact that he
did walk the earth and teach, because if I don't we'll quote sources back
and forth for weeks.  So, how do you justify promoting the Christ as a
saviour for all humanity?"

Message: 45331
Author: Billi Idyll
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Zak Woodruff
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 09:17:18

        I turned, as Jim choked at my concession, and whispered over at Zak
and Rod.  "What are the odds up to?"
        Zak checked his book.  "5 to 1 that Jim tries to heal you, 3.5 to 1
that Cliff will dump both of you off the board and 1 to 1 that God will kill
Jim for citing obscure historical sources with questionable backgrounds."
        I nodded.  "Sounds good."  I hesitated.  "Zak?"
        "Yeah?"
        "You should do something about your breath.  It smells like
minnows."

Message: 45332
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James White
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 10:37:43

Boy James - your food bill must be small right now with all these people
taking you out to dinner so often!!!  

Message: 45333
Author: Enyo Face
Category: Bulletins
Subject: New FREE BBS
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 10:54:16

Attention all you Vision Quest Proving Grounds fans, or anyone
who likes to have fun on a BBS;

There is a new BBS identical to the VQ Proving Grounds, except the
access is ABSOLUTELY FREE!!  That's right, all dungeons, fights, 
adventures, etc. are free.  The old sysop has put it up for fun.  He
wants all callers possible to play so that it is as challenging as
possible.

The number is 991-0144 and it is simply called "Proving Grounds".
Once again, it is identical to VQ Proving Grounds, but all access is
free!!!  991-0144--TRY IT OUT!!!!!!!

Sincerely,
Enyo Face

Message: 45334
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: ALL
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 11:09:33

We arrived.  Restaurant was closed.  Damn.  I was hungry.  For knowledge.
Maybe it is better this way - heard they charged outrageous prices and
didn't give you your money's worth of food (for thought).

Message: 45335
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 45315
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 11:19:58

Actually, Jaynes is a professor at Princeton, not Harvard.

Message: 45336
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 45316
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 11:22:26

Omniscience is not required for induction--in fact, induction is necessary
for the very reason that we don't have omniscience.  By induction, we can
make probable conjectures.
   Do I think that the Iliad is of the same genre as Acts?  No, and I never
said so.  The Iliad is not preaching, it's telling a story.

Message: 45337
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 45317/Traci
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 11:23:12

The book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" by Baigent, Leigh, and Lincoln is
available in most bookstores in the religion section as a mass-market
paperback.

Message: 45338
Author: $ Robert Simpson
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Finally!
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 11:52:35

The Black Castle is finally 300/1200!
 
(I thought it'd NEVER happen!)
 
Oh....843-6782  24hrs, 300/1200, free access to everything but the SYSOP
menus!
              Robert

Message: 45339
Author: Greg Lawrence
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: GREETINGS
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 12:55:36

Hello , from Asheville NC. My name is Greg Lawrence. I'm 42 yrs old,
married, and have three children. I am a high school teacher (Band)
My interests include hiking, golf, humor, computers, and oddly
enough, music.

Message: 45340
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:29:31

Yea, but worms and flies are getting me sick.  Anyone like Mexican food?

Message: 45341
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Lippard's Omniscienc
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:30:45

Problem is Jim, given your position, you can't believe that the vast
majority of mankind was alive in the days of Jesus since you have no
evidence that they, as individuals, lived!  I guess we all just sort of
showed up one day about a hundred years ago?
James>>>

Message: 45342
Author: $ James White
Category: Religion
Subject: KFYI and Mormons
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:31:56

The following appeared in the 7/25/87 "Latter-day Sentinel":
When the anti-Mormons take to the air, the Mormons bristle.
Little wonder then that KFYI radio in Phoenix is quickly be-
coming the most unpopular station for LDS in the Salt River
Vally.
     In between its pokes at Gov. Evan Mecham, the station
regularly takes jabs at the Church.
     That has prompted local LDS officials to ignore the
station's request to send a spokesman to defend the Church
against the many broadsides hurled on that station.
     But not everyone can sit still.  Melvyn Johnson, a high
priest in the Phoenix 3rd Ward, Phoenix Stake, called in one
day, while two anti-Mormons were blasting away and station
program director Tom Leykis was berating the Church for not
sending a spokesman to respond.
     "You're emphasizing the wrong things.  Why destroy?  Why
not look for the good?"  asked Brother Johnson.
     "So why won't your Church send a spokesman?"  countered 
Leykis over the air.
     "Well, there's so much venemous poison there I just think
they didn't want to get into a squirting match with a skunk,"
replied Brother Johnson.

Message: 45343
Author: $ James White
Category: Religion
Subject: KFYI 2
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:32:50

He later recalled:  "They laughed then cut me off."
     "KfYI's format is controversy, and controversy sells,"
said Kim Garvey, area public communications director for the
Church.
     "We don't want to aid in the controversy concerning these
things, and we won't play into other people's hands.  There is
no way you can win such a situation, and it does not clear up
any misconceptions about the Church."
     Added Mesa Maricopa Stake President David K. Udall, who
is the Church's official spokesman in Arizona:  "KFYI, for
whatever reason, has chosen to feature our critics on a 
regular basis.  We do a disservice when we call in and 'make
their show,' and it makes us look bad."
     Other Phoenix-area stations, most notably KOY-AM and 
KTAR-AM, have invited Church leaders for interviews or talk
shows, and Brother Garvey said these shows have been positive
for both the stations and the Church.
     But that hasn't been KFYI's intent, he maintained.

Message: 45344
Author: $ James White
Category: Religion
Subject: KFYI 3
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:33:42

     Not so, responded KFYI's Tom Leykis, who defended the
station's most recent program featuring Saints Alive
founder Ed Decker (author of "The Godmakers") and Phoenix
fundamentalist Jim White.
     Leykis said he aired the program because of a newspaper
article he saw about an LDS author who discussed anti-Mormon
bigotry.
     "I'm against bigotry," Leykis said.  "What we are trying
to foster is open conversation between all faiths.  Religion
is a topic on the air a lot."
     Still, the Church declined to send a spokesman.
     Leykis responded:  "They (Church leaders) say they don't
have to defend their faith.  I understand that.  And I take
the side of the underdogs, but its hard to do that when 
they're not insterested in representing themselves."
     The Church sees it as only a "squirting match" and 
refuses to participate.

Message: 45345
Author: $ James White
Category: Religion
Subject: KFYI last
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:34:24

In fact, the Church leaders even encourage members not to call
in.
     Advises Brother Garvey: "Don't call in.  Members should
be assured that we are aware of these stations and we are
consciously making the decision not to go on them.  If members
are bothered by what they hear, they should simply turn it 
off."
     Added Phoenix Stake President William J. Monahan:  "Any
program designed simply to stir up controversy is an anathema
to the spirit.  I have made a personal decision to tone out
KFYI because their whole position is to stir up controversy,
and it simply is not productive."
     The Tempe South Stake presidency recently assigned high
councilors to go to the wards and caution members about 
playing into the hands of media programs only designed to stir
up controversy instead of enlighten.
(The above can be found on page 12 of the Latter-day Sentinel)
Seems to me someone doesn't want their members discussing the
truth or even following their own Scriptures at D&C 71:7-8!

Message: 45346
Author: $ James White
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Billi Idyll
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 13:59:43

     I finished the piece of cake on my fork and replied.  "Billi,
we are having a hard time communicating here because you seemingly
know so little about the New Testament.  The book does not just tell
stories or contain doctrine - major portions are, granted, simply
doctrinal.  But the Gospels themselves are stories that are intricately
connected with the historical narrative.  You cannot say that the 
Gospel events took place in a vaccum - indeed, the early preachers of
Jesus said "Hey, look at what happened - you can check it out!"
Just because Homer mentions historical events does not mean that
it is of the same kind of literature as the New Testament.  Tell me
Billi, have you ever studied the NT?  Have you looked at the picture
it presents of the Roman culture of its day?"
     Billi smiled again and said "No, not really.  But I have read
alot of books at B. Dalton like Holy Blood, Holy Grail."
     "That's the situation I often find myself in.  How can I discuss
the specifics of the NT with you if you don't know what the specifics
are?  You are also relying on non-scholarship for your information -
what little of it you've provided."
     "What do you mean by that?"
     "You just said that the Gospels were not written by eye-witnesses.
Who do you think wrote Matthew?  How about John?  I know that it is
common for people to say that these books were not written by those
whose names are attached, but give me some facts to back up your
statement."

Message: 45347
Author: $ James White
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Billi cont.
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 14:00:57

     "Well, Jim Lippard said something like that in his book."
     "Yeah, Billi, but Jim is relying on very poor scholarship too.
Haven't you been reading my posts on Apollo?"
     "Ah, that board is too busy.  Besides, I'm not $tatus like most of
the rest."
     "Anyway, Billi, back to the subject."  I noticed that there were
others in the room listening in.  One guy had waxy ears and the other 
didn't.  They were laughing about something all the while not noticing 
that the table they were sitting at was freshly painted.  "As for Jesus,
you seem to be forgetting his own words when he told the disciples, "Go
into ALL THE WORLD and preach the gospel..."  He included every living 
person in that commission.  Even as early in his ministry as John 3
Jesus was talking about his death bringing salvation to the WHOLE world.
Now, I know that you must get rid of the Gospels as accurate reflections
of Jesus' words and ministry, because if they aren't, then your whole
theory evaporates.  That is what liberal scholarship has been up to
for years now."
     Billi frowned and then remembered:  "But Jim, you didn't answer
my point on the Essenes."
     "I was hoping that you were kidding, Billi.  Jesus' teaching is
a world away from the legalism of the Essenes.  The fairy-tale crock
about Jesus living in a monastery is unbelievable - absolutely no
evidence whatsoever.  Jesus' preaching is very different from the
Essenic doctrines, Billi."

Message: 45348
Author: $ James White
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: Idyll last
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 14:02:06

     "Well, I disagree with you."
     "OK, Billi, give me a brief summary of the eschatological viewpoint
of the community at Qumran as given in the scrolls, and compare and
contrast it with the eschatology of Jesus as revealed in the Gospels."
     Billi pushed his chair back.  "Don't be ridiculous, White!  This
isn't a school assignment!"
     "Of course it isn't Billi.  But you don't seem to realize that if
you are going to say things about these subjects, you'd better know
what you are talking about.  You don't seem to realize that this whole
issue boils down to presuppositions.  The scholars you rely on have
presuppositions such as "the NT is inaccurate, unreliable, and should not
be used in a discussion of Jesus."  They assume naturalistic principles
that of course cannot allow for the miraculous element in the NT.  If
you are going to make independent decisions about any of this, you had
better do some independent study of the issues and facts involved!"
     "But aren't you glad I conceded that Jesus existed?"
     "Sure Billi - now we need to discuss what he taught and what he
said.  You asked how I could justify promoting Christ as a savior for
all humanity.  I justify that by his own statements as well as by
the statements of the Hebrew prophets as contained in the OT. Answer
your question?"
     I leaned over to Zak and Rod who were busily trying to wipe the
paint off of their pants.  "Hey guys, what are the odds that God knows
all about those "obscure historical sources"?

Bulletin Board command:EQ

You chose Question?

Subject:Jim White

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:Can Christians lose their salvation?  Explain please.
 2:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...
The message is 45349

Message: 45350
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Greg Lawrence
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 17:25:33

WELCOME Greg to Apollo. It may not seem right now that this board 
is
versatile in it's discussions - but it is.!! Theres a small war going 
on
right now - but it will pass. So - you like computers. What kind 
do you
have? I have a Tandy 1000 and love it. Tell us more about yourself 
and again
- welcome to Apollo - the best BBS in the valley! --- ANN ---

Message: 45351
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 18:03:57

  Language grows and evolves, leaving fossils behind.  The
individual words are like different species of animals.
Mutations occur.  Words fuse, and then mate.  Hybrid words
and wild varieties of compound words are the progeny.  Some
mixed words are dominated by one parent while the other is
recessive.  The way a word is used this year is its 
phenotype, but it has a deeply seated, immutable meaning,
often hidden, which is the genotype.
  The language of genetics might be used in some such way to
out 
both.

Message: 45352
Author: Tom Leykis
Category: Religion
Subject: KFYI AND MORMONS
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 18:27:39

I would like to thank Jim White for reprinting the Article from the Latter
Day Sentinel regarding the unusual relationship between KFYI and the LDS
Church.

For some time now, the so-called "official" position of the Mormons, not to
appear on radio or television talk shows has troubled me because of the
constant complaining of church members who don't like hearing any
anti-Mormon sentiment on the airwaves. When anti-Semetic statements are
made, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith is the first organization to
voice its opposition and to offer to appear and debunk bigotry. When
anti-black hatemongers appear on talk shows, no one jumps in faster than a
spokesperson from the NAACP. 

When anti-Mormon sentiments are expressed, rather than offering to make an
appearance and attack intolerance, LDS elders take to the pulpits, and to
more insidious means such as threatening boycotts against the "offending"
stations. The attitude is that the Mormon Church is above reproach, and that
anyone who disagrees will be punished. 

The idea is to try to stifle any discussion of religion that might include a
discouraging word for the Mormon faith. Rather than complaining and making
veiled threats, why doesn't the Church go on the offensive and blow away the
folks they feel are bigots? Anything less is, in my view, cowardly.
                                        Tom Leykis/910 KFYI/Mon-Fri 3-7 PM

Message: 45353
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: White
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 20:40:39

No, you are simplifying far too much.  What is questionable is whether any
particular individual existed.  In most cases, a simple mention in any
historical document is sufficient.  But when outrageous claims are made
about the person, that person's existence as an historical person is
questionable--particularly if other historians of the period fail to make
any mention of them.  Thus we don't believe that Zeus, Hercules, or William
Tell were historical figures.
  Suppose all documents (Marxist and non-Marxist) prior to 1960 and relating
to 20th century Russia made no reference to Lenin, and every writer after
1960 assumed that he organized the 1917 October Revolution.  This would be
good evidence that Lenin was mythical.

Message: 45354
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: gospels
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 20:44:23

The position that the gospels were not written by eyewitnesses is also very
mainstream.  Even the attribution of names to three of them is based on
tradition rather than any claim to authorship made by the documents
themselves.
   In general, it seems that when Jim White says "liberal scholarship", he
means mainstream.

Message: 45355
Author: $ Mark Adkins
Category: Answer!
Subject: J.T.
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 20:53:47

How about as an excersize in philosophy?

*=* Journey to a SIG *=*

*=* Late Night Bulletin Board entered *=*

Message: 1132
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Sleep
Date: 07/25/87  Time: 01:16:08

There are two very important phases of sleep. One, the so-called 'deep
sleep' restores the body. The second, REM sleep, seems to restore brain
functions (by letting some of the{free-run while 'repairs' are made to
others). Chemical imbalances are corrected for one thing.
 
Most people run on a 90-mute sleep cycle. So sleeping for 3 hours or 4.5
hours would be good if you want to wake up refreshed (toward the end of REM
sleep is bes, as I recall).
 
This info is from "Winston Churchill's Afternoon Nap" by Jeremy Campbell. I
highly recommend it if you are interested in how your body works.
 
Rev. Beau