Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 21, 1987


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*=* Christians Haven Bulletin Board entered *=*

Christians Haven Bulletin Board command:R

Message: 245
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Last
Date: 07/17/87  Time: 15:19:05

This board is dead.
Maybe Oral Roberts could bring it back to life...

Message: 246
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Atheism
Date: 07/19/87  Time: 08:16:56

Next week (7/25) we will have Dr. Robert Morey on our radio program.  He is
the author of "The New Atheism and the Erosion of Freedom" as well as the
book "Death and the Afterlife."  The program is live and call-in, so if you
have some questions for him, feel free to call in between 3 and 4 PM at
278-5555.

Message: 247
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Theology
Subject: Oral Roberts
Date: 07/19/87  Time: 21:40:09

Oh Oral, who art on Heaven's right hand,
hollow is thy game,
Thy T.V. Kingdom come
On Cable as it is on Air
Forgive us our tresspasses
as you forgive those with grudges against you.
For thou art The Lord on Earth.
For ever and ever, past the Neilsen ratings
Ahmed.
                                  Well, exxxcuuuuuuuuuuuussse 
                                         Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
 
                               
                                     -Mike

Message: 248
Author: $ Carol Graham
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: just want to say
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 00:09:33

Hi!  First time I have been on in weeks and this is
the first board I visited.
Jesus also spoke a lot, Jim, about the Second Coming.
But I agree with you that he spoke about Hell more
than we would think. It is interesting that in the
Old Testament that subject is very hard to locate.
 
I can't recall where I was reading - but yesterday
I saw (in the Bible) that the separation from God
and from good is what is going to make hell a hell.
 
Interesting, too, that hell was created for Satan and
the fallen angels...not for mankind. However, those
that choose that side, I guess, will follow their
leader (and I didn't mean to be facetious about it).
 

carol

Message: 249
Author: $ Carol Graham
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: taste of hell
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 00:15:23

One time I had a tooth extracted under the calming 
influence of gas.
I could feel every single thing...yet I didn't realize
what I was feeling. There was a horrible buzzing in my
ears and this horrible, horrible pain that kept increasing
while I was swirling around and around. Each time around
- the pain increased. I remember (in my nightmare there)
thinking that I was in hell...and the thought of being
there eternally with each swirl increasing the pain, with
no relief in sight, forever and ever...my gosh, if I
hadn't been a Christian, I think that would have made
me fall on my knees after coming out of the anesthetic.
 
I was talking to a man one day about God. He was giving
me all his athiestic answers and laughing and scoffing
because I believed in God and Jesus. A week later he was
dead, and I suffered such anguish inside thinking of his
actually being in a state of separation from God, that it
was debilitating, to say the least. 
 
carol->

Message: 250
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James/Rod
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 11:40:19

        I try to make it a point not to discuss religion with Rod on the BBS
and even when I am over at his house.
        I told Rod about Jesus and Salvation and Believing and all the other
relevant points in the 'Salvation Package'. I have sown the seed as far as
Rod is concerned.
        I ignore, to the best of my ability, Rods slanderous statements. To
me, Rod has a real problem, and the only thing I know to do is to just Pray
for him.
        I find it sad to hear that other Christians refuse to log on to
Apollo because of a raving, tormented soul. Sometimes, the best thing to do
is to ignore a person who wants to argue for arguments sake, and wait for
that person to ask because he 'really' wants to know.
        I will be very distressed if Rod 'kicked' the bucket before turning
from his present ways as I am sure the Angels in Heaven will mourn for him
as well. And you, James, I am sure that you will feel a tinge of remorse for
Rod's eternal damnation and you just might wish that you had done more. Who
knows ..... right?
        Please, do not let Rod get to you. Try to see above his ploys and
tactics. He is obnoxious but he also needs help. If his help is to come by
way of a BBS then God will know that Apollo will be here for Rod.

                Sandy Sysop

Message: 251
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 14:59:58

I tend to agree, in one sense.  Rod is attempting to "enlighten" everyone,
and he does this by using methods he's seen Christians use -- repitition
and wearing down.  If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him.
Anyone who Rod drives away from this BBS has no business here; like it or
not (I like it) this BBS is a marketplace of ideas, some offensive, some
incredibly insightful.  Anyone who can't handle that isn't ready
for the Information Age, much less Apollo.
I also think your view of Rod as "tormented" is a bit condescending.  Rod is
content with his life the way it is, and he sees himself as having a mission
to remove the cloud of religion from peoples' eyes -- not an entirely
useless mission, in fact, since misguided Christians throughout history have
done much to set back scientific progress.  
So work on Rod.  Try to show him the error of his ways.  But do not reject
him, or attack him because of his beliefs.  He may be misguided, but he is
not hypocritical.  That may seem like a subtle point, but it wasn't to
Jesus.  Check out how Jesus dealt with the Samaritan woman in John 4.

Message: 252
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 12:24:42

Its not just Rod - though I have never spoken with a more blasphemous person
in my entire life - its the others who side with Rod.  I can't believe that
there are posts on the main board about how unfair I am!  Unbelievable!  The
double standards are so glaring, that I am spending what little time I have
either on the Christian boards or on CarolCom.  When it comes time to renew
my $tatus membership, I'll have to have a darn good reason to bother.
And about Rod - help him?  How?  Haven't we all tried?  He cannot enter into
rational conversation, that's for sure.  So Sandy's answer is the only one -
pray for him!  But I don't need a BBS to do that.

Message: 253
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 13:52:38

The problem is that Rod attacks God, and when you then attack Rod, you are
seen as the first one making a personal attack.  That's really true -- you
should keep the arguement on a better level.  I know that Rod attack
Christians in general, and occasionally specifically, but you shouldn't let
him get to you.  He doesn't really mean anything by it, he's just trying to
get them angry so they'll think, instead of just believing the things they
were taught to believe.
In any case, if you think the best way to help Rod is to run away, go ahead.


*=* Post Office entered *=*


Mail from Apollo SYSOP
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 00:56:40

I am taking these attacts that Christians are brain dead etc serious...
You are in violation of the ules and will be put in the antom Zome
if you get insulting with name calling again...  I have lost dozzens of
users because of you..and that is no exageration...    I am glad to be a
Christian and not to be like you... how insulting can you get?  MOST
CHRistians do not attack people like that...  Go prove your point on another
board if you wish to be rude to your fellow man.

SYSOP
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:I AM  just having a 'hearty' debate with my fellow men, although it is they 
 2:who cannot handle it.   Hmmmmmm Must be weak minds, that is the only 
 3:possible reason I can think of.
 4:end

Edit command:S

Saving message...



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Message: 1573
Author: $ Mike Howerton
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann/King
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 01:35:55

Yes,  they were all 4 released in a big book and I
read them all in that book. I am now attempting to collect
all 4 books in their original paperback versions.
I have 'The Long Walk' and I am having someone check on the 
other 3 for me now.  I also have 'The Dark Tower' 
and 'The Dark Tower II' in hard back.
There seems to be quite a bit of money in King books.
I have heard of an original first printing of Salem's Lot in
hardcover going for over $800.

Message: 1574
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Mike Howerton
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 08:49:24

I get a Stephen King newspaper once a month and they have a for sale page
with loads of S.K. books and yes your certainly right about some of those
books going for a fortune. When Pet Sematary came out I had bought it in
hardcover. I lent it to somebody and when I got it back, the cover was
missing. Didn't think too much about it til I got the paper and saw where
that particular hard cover with that cover would sell, if in good shape -
for $135!!!
This newspaper is called Castle Rock and is solely about S.k. and his
everyday doings. By the way - there is a rumor going around that "IT" is
going to either be his last horror novel or his last novel period!!! In that
paper they hinted he was giving up writing and in a Time book - there was a
big article about him and he said quite causally that It was the last book.
OF course, one never knows when his kidding or not. Gads - I can't conceive
of a life without Stephen King!!! --- ANN ---

Message: 1575
Author: $ Nikki Kalua
Category: Entertainment
Subject: Books
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 09:09:12

My mother bought me "When Rabbit Howls", a documentary written by a women
with 92 different personalities.  Should be interesting.  I have read
"Sybil" and "The Three Faces of Eve" but they were not written by Sybil and
Eve themselves.

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Message: 45247
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Question?
Subject: Lippard
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 22:47:44

If everything were already blue, what would be the point of painting it
blue?

Message: 45248
Author: $ Mark Adkins
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 23:43:02

But the second statement makes no mention of painting it blue.

Message: 45249
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Answer!
Subject: Adkins
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 01:10:46

Lippard's universe, then, would be a universe without paint.  This would be
terrible.  People would not be able to paint their cars, so they would rust
very quickly.  People would not be able to paint their houses, so the wood
would rot very quickly.  There would be no great paintings and many art
museums would have to close.  I'm sorry, but I would not want to live in
Lippard's universe.

Message: 45250
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Lippard's universe
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 01:13:24

Other things would be wrong with Lippard's universe as well.  There would be
nothing to eat (who's ever heard of blue food?), all movies would be
pornographic, and there would be no music to enjoy, unless you like the
blues.

Moreover, if Lippard is an empiricist, a universe in which everything is
blue would be logically impossible, because the lack of food would mean
people would be unable to survive, and no one would be able to experience
all the blueness, so there would be no blue.

Message: 45251
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 10:27:24

I'm glad I didn't choose red.

Message: 45252
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Taranto/blue
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 11:20:01

I'm sure we can all see that JT took a completely nonsensical TANGENT
instead of continuing the discussion about the need for a yang for a yin to
exist.
 
Rev. Beau

Message: 45254
Author: $ Michael James
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 11:59:04

Are you trying to say he blue it?

Anyway, I've seen blue corn chips (made from blue corn, of course) at
Hanson's.

Message: 45255
Author: $ James White
Category: Religion
Subject: Repentance/Lippard
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 12:20:43

     In regards to a point brought up by Dennis McKinsey on our
debate last Saturday - the term "perfect" (NASB: "blameless") used
of Job and Noah is the Hebrew term "tam" (or "tamim").  The 
major definition, according to the lexicon of Brown, Driver and
Briggs is "be complete, finished."  The noun form is defined as
"completeness, integrity."  The adjective form is used to de-
scribe something that is complete or sound.  From this it is 
clear that one can NOT attach the sense of "sinless" to the
term "tam."  Therefore, Mr. McKinsey's attempt to stretch the
word to mean this, as well as Jim Lippard's following of 
McKinsey's lead on page 8 of his "Fundamentalism is Non-
sense" are without foundation from the text itself.
    Also on page 8 of FIN we find the statement that the early
Hebrews were polytheists.  Untrue.  Henotheist, possibly.  In
the development of getting to monotheism, yes.  Their 
Scriptures were completely monotheistic; it may have taken
Abram and Isaac a little while to get it through their heads
that there was only one God - such can hardly be blamed on the
Scriptures.  However, the main point of bringing this up is
Jim's statement concerning "Elohim" and "El."  Both forms
occur throughout the OT, and the deciding factor in translation
is the verb used (singular or plural).  Therefore, Jim's statement
that it is "translated correctly" in Genesis 1:26 is completely
fallacious - the noun does not matter here - the verb does.

Message: 45256
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last few
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 13:56:42

So which is more relevant, Taranto's arguement with Lippard, or White's?
(I could have said James' arguement with Jim or James', but that wouldn't
have made much sense.)

Message: 45257
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: DEA BBS
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 14:49:39

The Phoenix Drug Enforcement Agency has a BBS.  It's 300/1200 bps, and the
number is 253-3891.
  Someone should upload the recent Reason magazine article about the DEA.

Message: 45258
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 18:05:25

...
  The idea that colonies of social insects are somehow
equivalent to vast, multicreatured organisms, possessing a
collective intelligence and a gift for adaptation far 
superior to the sum of the individual inhabitants, had its
origin in the papers of the eminent entomologist, William
Morton Wheeler, who proposed the term Superorganism to 
describe the arrangement.  From 1911 to the early 1950s this
ranked as a central notion in entomology, attracting the
attention of many fascinated nonentomologists.  Maeterlinck
and Marais wrote best-selling books on the presumed soul 
that must exist somewhere in the nests of ants and termites.
  Then, unaccountably, the whole idea abruptly dropped out 
of fashion and sight.  During the past quarter-century 
almost no mention of it is made in the proliferation of 
scientific literature in entomology.  It is not talked 
about.  It is not just that the idea has been forgotten; it 
is as though it had become unmentionable, an embarrassment.
  It is hard to explain.  The notion was not shown to be all
that mistaken, nor was it in conflict with any other, more
acceptable view of things.  It was simply that nobody could
figure out what to do with such an abstraction.  There it 
sat, occupying important intellectual ground, at just the
time when entomology was emerging as an experimental science

Message: 45259
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/21/87  Time: 18:16:58

of considerable power, capable of solving matters of 
intricate detail, a paradigm of the new reductionism.  This
huge idea - that individual organisms might be 
self-transcending in their relation to a dense society - was
not approachable by the new techniques, nor did it suggest
new experiments or methods.  It just sat there, in the way,
and was covered over by leaves and papers.  It needed
heuristic value to survive, and this was lacking.
  "Holism," a fabricated word, has been applied to concepts
like the Superorganism.  One wonders whether this word may 
not itself have scared off some investigators; it is a word 
with an alarming visage.  General Jan Smuts, who invented it
out of whole cloth in 1926, might have done better with
"Wholism"; it would have served the same etymological 
purpose and might have been just secular enough to survive 
this kind of century.  As it is, there is doubt for its 
future.  Holism is in some of the scientific glossaries but
has not yet made it into most standard dictionaries of 
English.  It got as far as the Supplement volume of the new
OED, which is something, but not enough to assure survival.
Perhaps it will die away, along with Superorganism.
  I cannot quarrel with any of this.  If an idea cannot move
on its own, pushing it doesn't help; best to let it lie 
there.