Apollo BBS Archive

Apollo BBS Archive - July 20, 1987


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Message: 1569
Author: $ Mike Howerton
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: King/Bachman
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 01:54:42

You're right. I did know  that about King.
Now if I can just get my hands on the other three.
 
 
I too would be interested in that copy of Castle Of Wizardry.
The Anthony book is Out of Phaze. So far it is real good.

Message: 1570
Author: $ Alan Hamilton
Category: Writers Cramp
Subject: Rod
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 06:44:44

  Rod has a seriously one-track mind.  At least he didn't say that it was a
book of child molestation.
 
     /
 /  *  /  Alan
*     *

Message: 1571
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Answer!
Subject: Mike/King
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 09:17:40

What did you mean by the other three? Didn't that story come in a large book
with many stories? -- ANN


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Message: 45225
Author: $ James Taranto
Category: Answer!
Subject: Lippard
Date: 07/19/87  Time: 23:18:00

A universe in which everything is painted blue is a logical contradiction,
because it leads to an infinite regress:  how do you paint the blue paint
blue?

Message: 45226
Author: Jacqueline Mitchell
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: MAGIC
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 01:15:06

TO:  ROD WILLIAMS, I love the Magic poem, especially the part about prayer
and the holly ghost!  What a gass!

Message: 45227
Author: $ Mark Adkins
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: blue paint
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 02:53:02

There is no infinite regress; the statement assumes everything except the
paint to be painted.

Message: 45228
Author: Billi Idyll
Category: My Dinner with...
Subject: God
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 08:00:35

        I rubbed my eyes wearily and looked at God.  "So, are you as
ignorant as Rod suggests?  He says you've done a poor job because you allow
evil to exist."
        God smiled easily.  "Humans so often use logic in an attempt to
explain why something "miraculous" happened.  Logic does not always apply. 
Take Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated Equilibrium in which he
suggests a mutation and improves a species happens in a small population of
the creatures, then those improved creatures spread out to replace their
older, less effective cousins.  That's a logical explanation, but,
ultimately, that theory rests upon the idea that a random mutation proves
beneficial.  All that logic is based on a random occurance..."
        I nodded.  "I guess I understand.  I would also guess that man is
unable, from his viewpoint in the universe, to see the whole picture."
        God smiled.  "Very true.  Case in point: Christians today deny any
link between reincarnation and Christianity when their faith in the return
of my son really is a reincarnational belief.  Why can they not believe that
I will allow even the most evil person another chance to do good and redeem
himself?  Perhaps, by allowing evil, and by allowing redeption, I have not
done as bad a job as has been suggested.  As for the ignorance charge, I
think Rod forgets that knowing everything means that I may know the furthest
implication of all actions, so what he sees as ignorant in the short run,
proves to be very beneficial in the long run."
        I sighed.  "Want anything else to eat?"
        God nodded.  "A beer.  We don't have any in heaven."

Message: 45229
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Apollo's Standards
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 08:40:10

     When I first started logging onto Apollo, many Christians
on other boards warned me that I wouldn't like it around here.
What I thought they meant was that there would be opposition
and disagreement with my position, which is fine with me.  I
don't mind debate at all - in fact, I sort of make my living
at it.  But over the past few weeks I've figured out that that
was not what those Christians were talking about.  They were
talking about the massive set of double standards present 
on Apollo.  Witness, for example, last week.  Rod gets on here
and posts four disgusting messages.  That is all they were.
There was no value to them, they were meant only to make angry
and to build walls between people.  When I replied (and NOT
in kind to be sure) only one person backed me up - Cliff.
Everyone else was saying "well gee, Rod has a right..."  If
I had posted a bunch of pejorative comments about Rod or all
atheists in general, the flood of response would have been
enormous, and maybe even rightly so.
     I don't need to spend time attempting to deal with issues
with people who don't want to deal with issues.  That is 
ridiculous.  I prefer an open situation where the issues can
be aired without the foolishness present around here.  Hey,
anyone can get hold of me in a public forum every Saturday
and state their case - so why waste time here?  Who knows.

Message: 45230
Author: $ James White
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Apollo2
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 08:41:04

     I will finish up commenting on Jim Lippard's book and will
post those messages.  I feel his material requires an answer,
and at the very least it will help with the rewrite, right Jim?
By the way, if F.F. Bruce is ultra-conservative in your opinion,
you just proved to me that 1) you know little about NT scholar-
ship; 2) whatever professors you are relying on out there at
ASU don't know much about NT scholarship either.  Your biases
are showing all too clearly.
     And finally - Cliff.  You mentioned once that people like
Rod had chased off other users.  I certainly know why.  It is 
not that he is so smart and his questions can't be handled - you
know that.  See, most of the people I know who spend time
BBSing are people who attempt to respect those with whom they
are communicating.  Rod (and others) don't care if they offend
for no reason at all - they get a real kick out of it.  I put
a little blurb apologizing for saying this was an "atheist" 
board in the next issue of the Dividing Line (should get it
next week sometime if lucky) but, I'll be perfectly honest 
with you - if things keep going like they are, the only ones
left around here who won't be so offended that they won't bother
are the atheists, and then the description will be appropriate.
James>>>

Message: 45231
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Religion
Subject: James White
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 09:15:09

What do you mean there won't be anyone left on this board that won't be
offended but the atheists? I've been here for awhi1e and got the opinion
that it was basically a Christian board. I've got several questions to ask
you - to learn - not to argue with you. Yet - you have not bothered with me.
You sound like you want Rod to be banned from here or at least put in the
Phantom Zone because he believes the way he does. Not fair!! IF you don't
like what Rod has to say - there are others who will discuss the issue with
you - but don't cut down the board.!  I have not liked all that has been
said at times as they havn't liked what I've said either. Thats the point of
BBSes. To be able to say what you want - answer - or ignore. ---- To be
honest - I think this issue is going to make alot of enemies. Sad! -ANN

Message: 45232
Author: $ Jim Lippard
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: painted blue
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 10:38:29

Yeah, you can get an infinite regress if you misinterpret what I was saying.
Try this:  "a universe in which everything IS blue".

Message: 45233
Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
Category: Answer!
Subject: Alan/sex
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 10:52:53

        In answer to your question; 'don't you have a more than professional
relationship with the boss?'
        I say ....... If you can't beat 'em ....... join 'em.

                        Sandy

Message: 45234
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike Carter
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 15:09:08

Not a good analogy.  Rod does take responsibility for his own actions.
I agree with Ann -- the doctrine of original sin assumes that we are sinners
from the start, and have no control over it.  I'd rather take responsibilty
for my own sins, thank you.

Message: 45235
Author: $ David Burkhart
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James White
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 15:17:30

OK, if it'll make you feel better, I'll tell Rod he's a jerk next time I see
him.
It doesn't change my opinion about YOU, however.

Message: 45236
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 18:07:03

...
  The small tribe of Iks, formerly nomadic hunters and
gatherers in the mountain valleys of northern Uganda, have
become celebrities, literary symbols for the ultimate fate of
disheartened, heartless mankind at large.  ... the 
government decided to have a national park, so they were
compelled by law to give up hunting in the valleys and 
become farmers on poor hillside soil...
  ...the Iks have transformed themselves into an 
irreversibly disagreeable collection of unattached, brutish
creatures, totally selfish and loveless, in response to the
dismantling of their traditional culture.  Moreover, this is
what the rest of us are like in our inner selves, and we 
will all turn into Iks when the structure of our society 
comes all unhinged.
  The argument rests, of course, on certain assumptions 
about the core of human beings, and is necessarily 
speculative.  You have to agree in advance that man is
fundamentally a bad lot, out for himself alone, displaying
such graces as affection and compassion only as learned 
habits.  If you take this view, the story of the Iks can be
used to confirm it.  These people seem to be living 
together, clustered in small, dense villages, but they are
really solitary, unrelated individuals with no evident use

Message: 45237
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 18:18:10

for each other.  They talk, but only to make ill-tempered
demands and cold refusals.  They share nothing.  They never
sing.  They turn the children out to forage as soon as they
can walk, and desert the elders to starve whenever they can,
and the foraging children snatch food from the mouths of the
helpless elders.  It is a mean society.
  They breed without love or even casual regard.  They
defecate on each other's doorsteps.  They watch their
neighbors for signs of misfortune, and only then do they
laugh.
...
  I have a theory then.  The Iks have gone crazy.
  The solitary Ik, isolated in the ruins of an exploded
culture, has built a new defense for himself.  If you live
in an unworkable society you can make up one of your own, 
and this is what the Iks have done.  Each Ik has become a
group, a one-man tribe on its own, a constituency.
  Now everything falls into place.  This is why they do 
seem, after all, vaguely familiar to all of us.  We've seen
them before.  This is precisely the way groups of one size 
or another, ranging from committees to nations, behave.  It
is, of course, this aspect of humanity that has lagged 
behind the rest of evolution, and this is why the Ik seems 
so primitive.  In his absolute selfishness, his incapacity

Message: 45238
Author: $ Apro Poet
Category: In search of
Subject: Life
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 18:27:13

to give anything away, no matter what, he is a successful
committee.  When he stands at the door of his hut, shouting
insults at his neighbors in a loud harangue, he is city
addressing another city.
  Cities have all the Ik characteristics.  They defecate on
doorsteps, in rivers and lakes, their own or anyone else's.
They leave rubbish.  They detest all neighboring cities, 
give nothing away.  They even build institutions for 
deserting elders out of sight.
  Nations are the most Iklike of all.  No wonder the Iks
seem familiar.  For total greed, rapacity, heartlessness and
irresponsibility there is nothing to match a nation.  
Nations, by law, are solitary, self-centered, withdrawn into
themselves.  There is no such thing as affection between
nations, and certainly no nation ever loved another.  They
bawl insults from their doorsteps, defecate into whole 
oceans, snatch all the food, survive by detestation, take 
joy in the bad luck of others, celebrate the death of 
others, live for the death of others.

Message: 45239
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod & David
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 19:04:45

        Fact...  Rod is a friend... but... he is VERY rude to people who
want to believe in the Christian faith.  I can not ZAP him off this system
because he wants to express his ideals ( as wrong as they are )... That
would be against my ideals!  However I will ask him in person to please be
polite and hold back on his blasphemy.
        James... read Sandy's post in the istian SIG.  There ARE more
Christians here, but they are a quiet bunch... or maybe they are afraid of
Rod's snake lips.   

ClifFORD

Message: 45240
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Apollo Trivia
Subject: Tom R Sloan
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 19:08:07

        Tom R. Sloan will be on line for it's B-Day... Watch for time and
Phone number to be posted.   See posts from 85 and 86

SYSOP ClifFORD

Message: 45241
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Politics
Subject: Toshiba's Apology
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 20:18:04

   TOSHIBA CORPORATION EXTENDS ITS DEEPEST REGRETS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Toshiba Corporation shares the shock and anger of the American people,
the Administration and Congress at the recent conduct of one of our 50 major
subsidiaries, Toshiba Machine Company. We are equally concerned about the
serious impact of TMC's diversion on the security of the United States,
Japan, and other countries of the Free World.

   Toshiba Corporation had no knowledge of this unauthorized action by TMC.
And the United States and Japanese Governments have not claimed that Toshiba
Corporation itself had any knowledge or involvement.

   Nevertheless, Toshiba Corporation, as a majority shareholder of TMC,
profoundly apologizes for these past actions by a subsidiary of Toshiba.
   * As a measure of PERSONAL recognition of the grievous nature of TMC's
action, both the Chairman and the President of Toshiba Corporation have
resigned.FOR THE JAPANESE BUSINESS WORLD, THIS IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF
APOLOGY.
   * In TMC, the subsidiary where the diversion occurred, wrongdoers are now
being prosecuted.
 
   For the future, Toshiba Corporation takes full responsibility to insure
that never again will such activity take place within the Toshiba Group of
companies.

Message: 45242
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Politics
Subject: Toshiba (2)
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 20:23:46

   * We are working with the Governments of the United States and Japan in
this endeavor.

   The relationship of Toshiba Corporation, its subsidiaries and their
American employees with the American people, one marked by mutual trust and
cooperation, has developed over many years of doing business together. We
pledge to do whatever it takes to repair, preserve, and enhance this
relationship.

   Toshiba Corporation already has begun to take corrective measures
throughout its hundreds of subsidaries and affiliate companies:
   * We immediately directed all our companies to institute stringent
measures guarding more securely against this kind of misconduct.
   * we obtained the resignation of the President of TMC and the three other
Board members who had corporate responsibility for the conduct of those TMC
employees actually involved.
   * We also obtained TMC's commitment to stop exports to the Soviet Bloc
countries for an unlimited time.
   * We have authorized an extensive investigation to find out all the facts
concerning TMC's actions and to design safeguards to prevent repetition of
such conduct. This investigation is being directed by American counsel,
assisted by a major independent accounting firm.
   * We will discharge all officers and employees found to have knowingly
participated in this wrongful export sale.

Message: 45243
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Politics
Subject: Toshiba (3)
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 20:28:51

   * We have appointed the former senior auditing official of Toshiba
Corporation to TMC's Board with direct responsibility for Toshiba's policy
of full observance of the law and of Japan's security arrangements with its
allies.
   * We are going to develop a rigid compliance program in cooperation with
the Governments of Japan and the United States.
   * We intend to establish Toshiba's new compliance program as a model for
all future export controls throughout Japanese industry.

   In its 22 years of doing business with the Unites States, Toshiba
Corportation has been a leader in introducing American products to the
Japanese market, and also has significantly shifted the manufacture of
Toshiba products to the United States. At a time when many of the U.S.-based
corporations competing with Toshiba are moving productions facilities and
jobs abroad, Toshiba's American companies are steadily expanding the extent
to which their products are manufactured in the United States. Today,
Toshiba employs thousands of Americans in 21 states from New York to Texas
to California. It is these Americans who have played a large and crucial
part in earning Toshiba its reputation for producing top quality products,
reliable service, and ongoing innovation that millions of American consumers
and industrial customers know they can trust.

   These bonds of cooperation are signs of our commitment to America. We
earnestly wish to continue our efforts to develop our relationship with

Message: 45244
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Politics
Subject: Toshiba (4)
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 20:33:00

America.

   We ask our American friends to work with us and help us to do so.


                                                       Joichi Aoi
                                                       President/CEO
                                                       Toshiba Corporation
 

Mudge Rose Guthrie Alexander & Ferdon, 2121 K Street N.W., Suite 700,
Washington, D.C. 20037, is registered under the Foreign Agents Registration
Act as an agent of Toshiba Corporation for the research, writing,
publication and dissemination of this document. The material is filed with
the Department of Justice, Washington, D.C., where the registration
statement is available for public inspection. Registration does not indicate
approval of the contents of this document by the United States Government.

Message: 45245
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last few
Date: 07/20/87  Time: 21:31:49

I hear they rehired the people who resigned.
 
Rev. Beau