Apollo BBS Archive - Feburary 1990

Apollo BBS Archive - Feburary 16, 1990

Message: 63353
Author: Larry Michaels
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeff Beck
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 11:01:20

Adolph Hitler served in World War 1.  It was a war of economics and I
might add, a very miserable war.  It was drudgery, it was cruel, it was
bloody and it warped the minds of many people, like all wars do.  He came
out of that war into a country that had been defeated and was in the depth
of depression.  He, like most others did not know where his next potato or
pat of margarine was coming from.  It was the times, my friend, the
environment along with the personal experiences of that individual.  He was
warped but to be unwarped in an extremely warped environment would take the
fortitude of a god.

He was once a small baby crawling on the kitchen floor and reaching for the
breast of his mother and a pat from his father.  He like happy and good
things as all children do.  He just didn't say, one day, 'Hey, I think I
will be an evil person just for the hell of it.'  I will hurt and kill and
make people miserable and hungry.

Adolph, like so many others was caught up in the times.  He reacted the
best way he knew how.  He blew it but thus far so has everyone else.

How many living things were killed, maimed and tortured by U.S.
Imperialism in Viet Namn, Loas, Cambodia and many other places in the last
decade alone?  How many minds, on both sides, have been permanently damaged
by those actions?  How many family members saw a loved one blown apart in
the name of WHAT?  They didn't even know.

Message: 63354
Author: Larry Michaels
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeff
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 11:02:23

There are a lot of warped people in this society because of bad environment
and we do hear, from time to time, about a vet who went wild from their
flashback and committed violence.  It is not uncommon.  Many of them cannot
hold a job.  Many are confined to V.A. Hospitals in mental wards.

Can you name someone who has suffered more than Hitler or Manson?  And why
is it that people who have disfigured faces or are ugly to begin with more
often than so-called handsome people are more likely to become a criminal
element?  It is because of the way they are treated by the mass majority. 
They are shunned and made to feel worthless.

Who is or who was a sadistic, psychopathic individual that led a relative
ordinary life?

Message: 63355
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 14:31:03

Re:  "If you have assumed that is what I intend to do, you are quite
correct."

I have no idea what you intend to do.  At first I thought you would try to
back up your unkind accusation, but you haven't.  I can only assume you
either can't or you were only speaking tongue-in-cheek.

Re:  "I propose to show that you use "mind-gymnastics" in defense of a
position I think you will take with respect to literal interpretation of the
Bible."

I can't believe you said it again.  When are you going to do it and quit
talking about doing it?

Re:  "I started this by asking you a question about your belief of the age
of the universe."

I thought we were going to talk about the literal interpretation of the
Bible?  I haven't the faintest idea of how old the universe is.

Shall I take a guess?  How about 100 billion years old?

(I can hardly wait to see how you prove "mind-gymnastics" from this
unrelated question.)

Message: 63356
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cancer
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 14:44:14

Is anyone here walking up South Mountain for the cancer fund this weekend? 
My whole family will be there.

Message: 63357
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod on Hitler
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 14:59:21

Bullpucky!  Hitler had a warped mind from day one!  It was in his genes...
Remember, Hitler tried to wipe out the Jewish race.  How many family members
saw a loved one gassed, and in the name of WHAT?  They didn't even
understand.

How many people died in Vietnam and Cambodia after US troops pulled out?
Do not blame everything on Imperialism or Capitalism.

Rod...Take a look at the world, your communist ideals have failed.

Message: 63358
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 15:37:00

Just give this society another 10 years and you'll be eating your
opinion.

Message: 63359
Author: Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Melissa Dee
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 15:39:30

If I'm so blind, what are you doing to prevent suicide?
The same idiots with the same leprous diatribe are spewing
bull$hit into the open mouths of wailing youth.
...and they aren't stopping anything.
        
So if I'm so blind, tell me how you are so enlightened...

Message: 63360
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike Carter
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 17:31:17

Right.

Message: 63361
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: News Today
Subject: The Trumps
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 17:32:02

Well, Donald and Ivana are untie-ing the knot.  Pop! Goes the media!

Message: 63362
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 17:35:23

     I don't know where I stand on capital punishment.  There are good
arguments on both sides.  

Message: 63363
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/Cambodia
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 19:09:04

Pol Pot used the US invasion and meddling to stir up the people.  One could
easily blame part of that horror on our gov't.

Message: 63364
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: bob's lob's
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 21:16:18

Well, Bob, I can't prove YOU use mind-gymnastics if you won't cooperate.
If you are going to take reasonable positions, I'll just have to go
find someone who doesn't. 

Message: 63366
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Larry
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 21:53:44

You are a self-deluding fool.  All of us were once children, just as those
of us who survive grow old.  This does not make children or old people
inherently innocent, good, or nice.
A lot of people came out of WWI carrying traumatic experiences.  They went
back to living ordinary lives as best as they could.  They did not pick a
minority to exterminate.  You are a twit.  Hitler merely exploited the
the prejudices, fears, and greed of his people, intimidating, killing, or
jailing the rest, for his own evil purposes: to cause suffering, and to make
money and gain power from the suffering he caused.
 
I doubt that I will respond to any more of your messages on the subject,
since you are obviously making no attempt at rational analysis.

Message: 63367
Author: Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Larry
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 22:01:00

A relatively large number of Viet vets have suffered trauma from their
experiences, and this can manifest itself in "flashbacks."  Yet almost no
Viet vets go violently antisocial.  This indicates that some other factor is
involved.  All too often, "flashbacks" are used in the same way that
childhood or environmental trauma is used: as an excuse.
Can I name someone who has suffered more than Hitler?  Sure, I can name
about six million people.  As for Manson, how about Sharon Tate and the
other victims.  Manson was never stabbed to death, or had his entrails (in
Tate's case, her unborn child) ripped out of her.
As for ugly and handsome people, your theory is absurd.  Aside from the fact
that there are lots of ugly people who are not sociopaths (the majority, in
fact), I doubt if even a liberal sociologist would dare make such an
assertion.  He would be laughed out of the profession.
Furthermore, most criminals are of ordinary appearance, neither particularly
ugly nor particularly good looking.  Though there are in fact people of
exceptional good looks who commit some quite vile crimes.
Plenty of sadistic, psychopathic individuals lead relatively ordinary lives.
What was extraordinary about Hitler's life?  I don't recall reading any
biographies indicating that he was subjected to horrible beatings or
tortures as a child.  
I know it's scary for you to admit that there are people who behave like
monsters and have nothing even approaching a legitimate excuse, but it is
time to turn and face reality.

Message: 63368
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Apollo Trivia
Subject: the 15th again....
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 23:40:53

        Today (yawn) Apollo was backed up in full to fifteen 3.5 disks.
Just in case.......

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

Message: 63369
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: For sale
Subject: 9mm loads
Date: 02/15/90  Time: 23:57:22

        We are setting up a die set to do 223 ammo...and ran out of gun-fund
loot....  so since I have an excess amount of 9mm loads with 115 gr FMJ
(Full Metal Jacket) using 4.5 Gr of 231 powder...  we will sell a few.
        50 rounds for $8.50 with brass exchange....   Limit of 50 to first
time customers to see if they even like the load first.  This is a mediam
load, good for practice with out hammering your hands to death.
        
        This offer is a limited trial offer and may not be repeated.

Call me at 843-3346

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

P.S.  We will take 380 brass in place of the 9mm brass since we need it
more.

Message: 63370
Author: $ Peter Petrisko
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: PRISON
Date: 02/16/90  Time: 00:50:38

     Relieve prison overcrowding by releasing those people convicted of
crimes that shouldn't be "crimes" in the first place.  Like a guy put away
for eight years for possession of marijuana.  If someone commits a crime
against ANOTHER person, that person should be punished as determined by our
laws.  If a person commits a "crime" against him/herself why should our law
enforcement agencies have jurisdiction over it?  The gov't shouldn't have
jurisdiction over our bodies.  They're ours, we can do as we please with
them.
     Make an attempt to make the prison system more self-sufficent.  No, not
prison "summer camps" but I see nothing wrong with farming, etc. if
conducted in a structured manner. (I'd like to see more on here about this
prison experiment someone posted info on.....)  Why should you & I support
these people - with the amount of manpower in the prison system it should be
more self-sufficent.
  
     Stop lawyermania.  I can't agree with Paul that execution should
immediately follow the conviction - appeals are sometimes necessary. 
Appeals shouldn't take 10 or more years, however.  I don't have a pat answer
for this, I don't think there is one.  Maybe someone more acquainted with
our legal system could make suggestions as to what direction to take.

     That's my two-cents worth on prisons.

Message: 63371
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: $uper $aver Card
Date: 02/16/90  Time: 01:48:09

        We have a stack of $uper $aver cards from Shadow MTN. S.A.D.D.
(Students Against Drunk Drivers) and Say NO to drugs and alcohol.
These are discount cards that can be used at some local businesses.
Good for 20% off at all Carls Jr and Arby's, plus several other merchants.

We are to point out these cards will also get you one week FREE training at
American Karate (15227 N 32nd St. (at Greenway)) 971-9810)

The cards expire March 31st.

Camelback Hospitals Helpline 253-1334 (sponsor)

Anyway...  they are FREE to anyone who wishes to pick one up...  I have
plenty!

        *=* Say NO to Drugs & Alcohol *=*

Message: 63372
Author: Larry Michaels
Category: Answer!
Subject: Zak
Date: 02/16/90  Time: 02:06:15

In your last message to me you say:

    "For most people, once you're brought up with a value-system
(especially an extreme one), it takes a lot of experience and
self-evaluation to change that value system."

What you are saying here is what I have been trying to make clear all
along.  Children can, and often are, warped by their parents.  In other
words their environment has permanently affected them.

I am tired at the moment but I will answer the remainder of your post at my
next log on.

Should we not then punish the parents who warped the children in the first
place.  Or wait a minute, what if the parents of the parents are the guilty
ones.  Or could it be that the parents of the parents of the parents...etc.
passed on a ......

This whole punishment, just the word itself, rings of a sick mentality, a
Hitler type mentality, if you will.  But hey, that's the type of world we
live in and it is up to us to make it better, right?

It all sounds like a 'tit for tat' system: you steal my dog, I'll steal
your cat, or an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth.  It could never end.  It
is like a loop, a bad loop.  It has to change if we are going to advance
beyond illiteracy.  

And whoever it was that said that all convicted felons, including people
who deal in drugs should be put to death....well this really took
intelligence of the type I am talking about.  Imagine raising children with
these views.  This is my whole point....the person who made that statement
obviously believes it and as such would pass it on to a child who may then
believe it.  That child may one day become President or worse yet a person
who controls the power of the President.  Shudders!

The above is my whole point and unless we know what Hitlers and Manson's
youth were like we cannot honestly judge.  Of course if we read about it in
the newspaper or hear it on the 5 o'clock news it must be true, right?

Later...... 

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Subject:Jeff Beck

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