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Apollo BBS Archive - December 16, 1991
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$ Rod Williams 23:29:22 (1200)
$ Funky Alf 21:41:36 (2400)
$ Beauregard Dog 21:27:25 (2400)
$ Green Lantern 21:25:10 (2400)
$ Melissa Dee 19:57:32 (2400)
James Matlock 19:23:15 (1200)
$ Dan Derwin 18:44:08 (2400)
$ Dan Derwin 18:39:51 (2400)
Daniel Derwin 18:39:08 (2400)
Ray Morrell 17:59:06 (2400)
$ Dean McCarron 17:45:34 (2400)
$ Fred Smith 15:59:47 (2400)
$ Green Lantern 12:39:01 (1200)
$ Fred Smith 11:24:26 (2400)
$ Ann Oudin 10:48:44 (2400)
$ Daryl Westfall 10:34:46 (1200)
$ Fred Smith 08:08:31 (2400)
$ Fred Smith 07:32:25 (2400)
$ Green Lantern 07:29:22 (1200)
$ Archi Medes 07:21:10 (1200)
$ Mike McNeill 06:19:47 (2400)
$ Paul Savage 05:50:06 (1200)
$ Don Hicks 01:32:20 (1200)
$ Rod Williams 01:04:59 (1200)
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Message: 5253
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Cars/Shit
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 08:10:49
I wonder which produced more shit in the last 100 years - volcanos, kuwait
oil fields burning, or cars?
Message: 5254
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Answer !
Subject: Last
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 08:46:26
More shit in the LAST 100 years...
The Coal burning industrial complex.... Cars is a scap goat!
Message: 5255
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Quickie
Subject: Last few
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 20:01:13
Gee, I'm so glad we are using the X-rated sig for these Adult debates...
:)
X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:EC
You chose Cosmos-Chatter
Subject:Cars
Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
1:Fucking cars (hope that makes you feel better Melissa).
2:
3:Yes, that's it, the burning of coal for the manufacturing of cars, plus the
4:cars themselves.
5:
6:Which effects our health more, auto emissions, volcanos or oil fires in
7:Kuwait?
8:end
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Message: 1999
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Answer!
Subject: Saavik
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 06:45:23
I believe Kirstie Alley (now Rebecca on _Cheers_) played Saavik in II.
Whatever happened to that bald babe who was in one of the early ST films?
End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:EA
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Subject:Bald babe
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1:She got a wig?
2:end
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Message: 80592
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Missing Bill
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 05:55:27
Now I can't remember what surely must have been "one of the shining
moments" of my life! OH! Cruel world! I think I shall go out in the garden
and dig some worms for supper! WHen can we meet again, so that I can renew
my sagging memory?
Message: 80593
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Vote
Subject: XMAS TREE (?)
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 06:44:55
Uh... okay.
Thanks for the explanation.
Message: 80594
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul's Memory
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 06:49:28
Alas, Paul, your memory has long since passed out of warranty. It cannot be
renewed.
(Gosh. I'll have to make up something really good to tell you about
something hideous you did the first time we met. I believe it was at a bar
in Guadalupe...)
Message: 80595
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/Why save FRNs
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 07:45:12
Most people DON"T save FRNs. Arch has done a good job of confusing the
issue. FRNs serve two purposes - As a medium of exchange, and as a way for
the gvt to borrow money. They are NOT "wealth" and it is nonsensical to
"save" them. When you put them in a bank in a NON-interest bearing acct,
you ARE, for all practical purposes, saving them. But if you put them in an
interest bearing acct then you are no really "saving" them anymore - you are
investing them. The proper use of FRNs is to invest them and preferably in
such a way that they "gain" at least enough to offset the inflation rate.
That is not likely to be easy to do in a bank account, but that is not the
FRNs fault. Of course, the other proper use for FRNs is as a medium of
exchange. It's true that there is an appeal in the idea of having a "money"
that in and of itself has "true value" and that would be fine if such
systems actually worked but ther~re really is no historical basis to believe
that such a "true value money" will work any better then a paper system.
There are so many factors that impact on the economy that it is really
simplistic, IMHO, to try and ascribe all the good things that happen during
a 50 year period to the "gold" standard and to try and ascribe all the bad
things that happen during some other period to "paper" money. After all, we
did have the tremendous post war boom in the economy during a time of paper
money. And we had quite a good economy only a few years ago, again during a
"paper" money period. While some people seem to think that a gold standard
would somehow "keep the gvt in line" they seem to forget that there is
nothing stopping the gvt from simply taxing the hell out of people under a
gold standard and just as surely bleeding them dry as would happen with FRNs
Message: 80596
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/accept gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 07:49:52
Under what circumstances did you accept gold? How did you determine how much
to accept? HOnestly, if you had the cuda advertised for $3850 and someone
came to you and said they'd llike to buy it but didn't have any money, only
some gold, how much gold would you want from them? Would it be about 10
ounces?? And once you had the gold, what would you do with it? Gold could
only be expected to keep up with the inflation rate but if you INVESTED it
in the "right" investment (say apartments during a period of apts shortages
like we had 15 years ago) you would do far better then just keeping up with
inflation.
Message: 80597
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Modem trouble
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 07:51:08
I get line noise on this BBS all the time no matter what modem I use or
where I call from. I think CLiff has a noisy line!!
Message: 80598
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gold/Death
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 07:53:22
Rod,
Wouldn't it be a "trip" to die by having 216 cubic feet of gold fall on
you!!
Message: 80599
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 07:55:27
You are too kind. And obvious a very discerning person!
Message: 80600
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Death
Public Bulletin Board command:EA
You chose Answer!
Subject:Fred/216 cu.ft.gold
Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
1:Hey, I'd die rich, rich, rich. (Just joking) What is rich anyway?
2:end
Edit command:S
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The message is 80614
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Message: 80600
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Death
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 08:01:55
I can only think of two reasons for not being ready to die - 1) I'd miss my
loved ones and 2) I'd miss out on all the neat things that the future holds,
assuming the "neat" will outweigh the bad!! To be alive simply to not be
dead holds no attraction in and of itself.
Message: 80601
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category:
Public Bulletin Board command:EC
You chose Chit Chat
Subject:Fred/Death
Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
1:Scientifically speaking nothing dies, only changes. Perhaps I died and
2:changed into a human animal. Yuk. Better luck next time, eh?
3:end
Edit command:S
Saving message...
The message is 80615
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Message: 80601
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 09:09:38
I believe in the early years my uncle Walter told me it took him 20
ounces of gold to buy a car... It takes about 20 ounces today.
Or it took about 700 FRNs back then, and it takes about 16000 of
those FRNs to do it now.
I fail to see how to spend an apartment building, I can spend gold
easier... And I just might sell my Cuda for 10 ounces of Gold.
Message: 80602
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Question?
Subject: Fred Smith
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 09:47:46
Gee Fred, I know you can invest FRNs or anything of value if you
really want. But what bothers me a lot, is the government taxes you on
number differance.
You invest to try and fight inflation (invest 100 FRNs and get back 150
FRNs and the IRS takes it's 40% cut of the 50 FRNs because you made a PROFIT
(in numbers only) of 50 FRNs (now only 30 FRNs after taxes)) but before your
investment you could buy your cigarettes for one FRN, now it takes two FRNs.
With my gold... if I had 100 ounces and just kept them... I still have 100
ounces of gold... no profit but my gold will buy the same amount as it did
before.
Everyone could conceivably save gold or silver, but it is difficult
for everyone to save apartment buildings letting the low-life to strip out
the copper plumbing if not watched around the clock. I myself do not like
to be tied down this much.
Message: 80603
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 11:26:24
You spend your apt building by converting it into money de jur. What
difference does it make whether you convert it to FRNs, gold, or sea
shells?? Money is USELESS except as a medium of exchange.
Message: 80604
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 20 ounces of gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 11:31:19
Sounds fishy to me. Are you sure he was really remembering how many ounces
or was he recalling something from the past and did a fast mental conversion
from FRNs back to gold and hence came up with 20 ounces? But even if he
did, that was only due to the ARTIFICAL restraint that was put on the value
of gold by the US Gvt!! You guys want to have it both ways. You want the
gvt to get out of the monetary business but you also want the gvt to dictate
the value of Gold. You can't do BOTH!!!
Message: 80605
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: ARch 1/1
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 11:32:07
Arch, I didn't have time to properly address your mano-a-mano
response to my post on how you were going to build a bridge with just your
"skills". I think you entirely missed the point I was *trying* to make.
No matter how many or how good ones skills are they are pretty much
worthless without access to and control of "raw" material. The worlds
best apartment manager cannot make money if he doesn't have an apartment
building. The worlds best farmer cannot grow crops if he doesn't have a
farm. I'm trying to show the distinction between "real wealth" that is
used to either live directly off of (the farm) or to make money from (the
apt building). The man who owns some gold cannot eat it, nor can he live
off it for long since spending it will eventually result in it all being
gone. Gold is NOT real wealth. A Gold Mine IS real wealth in todays
world. But I don't think you had in mind that we would all own a gold
mine. Of course, if we did all own a gold mine it would ruin you system
anyways as the value of gold is based on scarcity, not plentitude.
Message: 80606
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: CLiff/gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 11:38:55
Even if gold did hold it's value that still fails to address the major
disparity between hoarding gold and thereby making nothing off of it, and
INVESTING your wealth and thereby INCREASING it. What wealthy person can
you name who got wealthy by hoarding gold? It just doesn't work that way.
The best you could hope for by hoarding is to live at a lower standard now
so that you have something to spend later when you aren't working. IN fact,
hoarding is such a bad idea that that is EXACTLY why banks make so much
money. The only difference is that many people hoard their "cash" and
thereby lose out rather then hoarding gold and lose out. You have to invest
your "money" if you want to make money. (Actually , it's your "wealth" you
are investing.)
Message: 80607
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Fred
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 12:19:55
The money you use (plastic and FRNs) is worthless as you say.
Gold and Silver have value and can be used for many things.. though out
history gold and silver has been there. Not just in this country, but in
any civilized country you can exchange gold/silver for whatever... even if
the United States Government totaly fails!
Message: 80608
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 16:06:38
I don't disagree that gold and silver have intrinsic value. I only disagree
with the idea that all (or really any) of our problems would be solved by
going to a gold standard. And as far as the fact that gold and silver can
be exchanged for whatever, that true of wheat and leather and etc when it
comes down to a situatin where we *really* need to concern ourselves with
using gold for trade. Doesn't it seem a little foolish to be planning for
something (total economic chaos) that has never occured and is not likely to
occur and that very very few of us could afford, in terms of stashing away
enough gold to be "enough" , anyways?? Do you also keep a years supply of
wheat on hand? Gasoline? Meat? Canned goods? Hows that bomb shelter these
days???? To me, I just don't see any rational economic reason to be
stashing away mass quantities of gold. In the long run it will do no more
then keep up with inflation which makes it a poor quality investment.
Message: 80609
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Fred
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 17:06:52
Keeping up with inflation is better then losing to inflation holding
FRNs. Let's face it, not everyone can be a landlord and own a building. Not
everyone can invest in sound adventures. Everyone paid in Coin of worth
could count on it to retain value without having to spend it the minute
they earn it as you would need to do now with FRNs to get its value in
goods. This also is not practical.
As for enough gold... In a collaps, things would be much cheaper..
An ounce of gold would buy more then what you could get for a wheelbarrow
full for FRNs. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING is backing FRNs. Gold, silver,
tin, (real tin) or almost any mineral has more value then 'paper'. To put
your faith in 'paper' is to live in a house of cards. Very fragile indeed.
For me to feel my 'dollars' would buy me just as many goods when I
retire as it would now, would be a good feeling indeed. Under the current
system, this can't happen. My hour of labor should still be worth an hour
of labor when I cash it in 20 years from now.
Fred...thinks we should invest, then pay a tax on the gain, when
there is no gain at all except in the number of FRNs that now have a lesser
value then the FRNs invested. Sigh... so smart, yet so blind.
Message: 80610
Author: James Matlock
Category: Question?
Subject: Cliff/gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 19:37:07
So what happened to the gold people bought back (in the 70's?) when it was
around $800 an ounce? Now it's less than $400 an ounce. Some investment!
It seems to me that, like the stock market, the precious metals commodities
market is only a good investment if you buy at the right time and sell at
the right time.
If I buy an ounce of gold and it retains about the same dollar value over
several months (and it's been pretty stable of late) I am not even keeping
up with inflation. I will admit I have not been following the price of
gold, but it would be interesting to stop by the library one day and see how
it has varied.
Message: 80611
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Vote
Subject: Interesting...
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 20:13:00
There are the same number of "Christians" who will not be having a real tree
this year as there are "Atheists". As for the Solstice tree, it's beyond
me why anyone who is celebrating the earth would rip out a tree from her
loins.
Since you already claim we atheists are bitter over wording, Cliff, I
thought it was interesting the only choices were christian or atheist. I
guess you meant anyone not believing in Christ so that would cover Buddists,
Jews, etc.
Message: 80612
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: last..
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 22:31:45
So far, only you atheists have complained about my wording. You miz
Dee, prove my point. Rod proves my point as well. While on the subject of
Rod, every time in the past, when at his home at Christmas time.. He had
a REAL tree... "Kill a tree to celebrate life" was his moto. I don't know
about now though... I may have shamed him into an artificial tree. I on
the other hand, have NEVER HAD A TREE in my house.
Miz Dee: Re: "the only choices were christian or atheist."
I also mentioned agnostics and etc... covering everyone who was NOT
a Christian in the last part of the question. The first part was ONLY for
those believeing in Christ... Hence CHRISTmas tree. Miz Dee, PLEASE
((((READ)))) the ote question again... You construct a strawman, then
proceed to push him into the fire....
I don't really care if people choose a tree to celebrate or not, I
just find it hypocritical when non-Christians do so... I am not bitter,
just amused.
Merry Christmas to all you Christians... A Merry (?) Whatever to
the rest of you...
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
Message: 80613
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James Matlock/Gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 23:22:08
Well, I think only a fool would buy gold on a 'high spike' in its
value curve. If Gold was readily used, there would be no panic buying and
it would remain more constant. When you get a sudden surge in buying almost
anything, the price may zoom up momentarily. However, you did bring up an
interesting point and I will ask an expert on his thoughts. I know a guy
who really has LOTS of gold. No, he is not a BBS user
I had better also admit, I am more into silver one ounce coins more
so then gold. If nothing else...I like them!
Message: 80614
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Fred/216 cu.ft.gold
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 23:37:18
Hey, I'd die rich, rich, rich. (Just joking) What is rich anyway?
Message: 80615
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Fred/Death
Date: 12/17/91 Time: 23:38:55
Scientifically speaking nothing dies, only changes. Perhaps I died and
changed into a human animal. Yuk. Better luck next time, eh?
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