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Apollo BBS Archive - December 12, 1991
Mail from James Hawley
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 00:29:32
Good messages, dude. Don't cut up your credit card, give it to me!
By the way, I now have a person on my mailing list named Charles Williams?
He has a speach impediment, maybe a twin taken away at birth?
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:Charles was the 'gay' one. We had him shipped out after being caught
2:swallowing. To bad though cause he had nice buttocks.
3:
4:I are awfully fucking, too damn busy. I thought we were having a recession.
5:Today seemed like the old hell that I've grown accustomed to.
6:
7:Let's manufactur a new product, something that is eaten like a snack and
8:would be 'pussy' flavored. We could have black pussy, Mexican pussy and
9:young white girl pussy snacks. Whadda you think. Let's hit the lab.
10:
11:Thanks for your input about the messages.
12:
13: Rod
Mail from Pete Fischer
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 23:19:03
Glad you enjoyed the Videos so much. Unfortunately I couldn't make it to
Video night this time around. I have not even seen the Video that I am in. I
tried to see it last night, but he couldn't find the thing. Adios, Pete
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:At first I thought it was only an actor protraying you but then I realized
2:that nobody else could look that much like you.
3:
4:Work is hell.
Main Menu command:U
$ Rod Williams 20:54:35 (1200)
$ Rod Williams 20:53:55 (1200)
$ Beauregard Dog 20:28:09 (2400)
$ Beauregard Dog 19:52:43 (2400)
$ Melissa Dee 19:41:59 (2400)
James Matlock 18:44:09 (1200)
Rusty Hostel 18:22:58 (1200)
Steve Stroblas 17:31:00 (2400)
Jared Clarke 16:35:42 (2400)
$ Felix Cat 14:09:28 (2400)
$ Archi Medes 13:10:49 (1200)
$ Green Lantern 13:03:24 (1200)
$ Gordon Little 12:15:21 (2400)
$ Fred Smith 12:09:09 (2400)
$ Fred Smith 10:56:00 (2400)
$ Fred Smith 10:55:14 (2400)
$ Ann Oudin 10:00:37 (2400)
$ Green Lantern 08:27:47 (1200)
$ Melissa Dee 08:03:20 (2400)
$ Fred Smith 07:41:48 (2400)
$ Mike McNeill 06:06:18 (2400)
$ Don Hicks 06:02:53 (1200)
$ Paul Savage 05:51:13 (1200)
$ Joe Bottomlee 04:29:51 (1200)
$ Nick Ianuzzi 04:10:23 (2400)
Bob Peters 04:00:05 (2400)
$ Gordon Little 03:29:53 (2400)
$ Mike Carter 03:10:00 (2400)
$ Joe Bottomlee 00:37:23 (1200)
$ James Hawley 00:29:10 (2400)
$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C
Message: 8743
Author: $ Joe Bottomlee
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: This N That
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 00:47:14
Hope everyone misses me while I'm gone to Houston. I leave this morning, for
a week. I notice there has not been much going on this SIG the last few
days. I know I haven't post anything lately. I've been busy with many of my
personal projects. I finish my computer course at GCC yesterday. I was under
the gun, because I was not going to get another extension. BTW I turn 44 on
the 10th. It's strange, but in my mind's view still thing of my self as
being in my early 20's.
<<< Joe >>>
Message: 8744
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Early 20's
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 08:02:04
Thinking of oneself as having ceased to age in the early 20's seems to be
fairly common. I feel the same way. My mental picture of myself i
much closer to when I was in college then anything else. Even many people
well over 60 still think of themselves as in their 20's and 30's. Of
course, when I wake up all stiff in the morning it takes a few minutes to
get the 20's mental picture in focus again!!
Message: 8745
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Early 20's
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 08:04:27
I often feel about 16.
Message: 8746
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Fred
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 14:16:08
Re: Thinking of oneself as having ceased to age in the early 20's seems to
be fairly common. I feel the same way.
I think it's called being "young at heart."
Message: 8747
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Feeling young
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 20:30:09
Naaaah, it's just how you old farts handle imminent death.
$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC
You chose Chit-Chat
Subject:Feeling young or old
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:Yesterday I was 63 and today I was 14. Time DOES NOT exist. I think, if
2:all goes well, that tomorrow I'll either be 8 or 10.
3:end
Edit command:S
Saving message...
The message is 8748
$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:JN
*=* Journey to a SIG *=*
*=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*
X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C
Press [A] to abort
Message: 5239
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Answer !
Subject: Fred/prejudice
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 03:06:13
Granted that "prejudice" means literally nothing more than a judgment formed
without an adequate assessment of all the facts. However, the word
"prejudice" (or its Latin equivalent) has been used in a pejorative sense
ever since Roman times. Certainly if you told yourself that a 20-year-old
car is *likely* to have some defect making it unsafe at high speed, you'd be
making a judgment based on previous (and not necessarily broad) experience
of old cars, rather than on the actual condition of this particular car.
You will be exercising caution, perhaps unnecessary caution, by driving it
extra carefully. The point is, you won't be doing anything wrong or unfair.
For a very long time, the word "prejudice" has had a moral dimension
inextricably associated with it in people's minds. The word denotes "prior
judgment", but it connotes "unfairness". The implication is that the "prior
judgment" was used in place of a careful assessment of the facts, in
situations where one *ought* to have made a careful assessment of the facts.
Self-delusion is admittedly a step further than just neglecting to examine
the facts. But when it comes to "prejudice" against minority groups -- if
we say the defendant probably *is* a thief because he's black -- everyone's
had ample opportunity to examine whether all black people are thieves, and
heard lots of people telling them "it's wrong to be prejudiced". So if
somebody insists on clinging to their prior judgment in the face of the
facts, or if they deliberately don't examine the facts when they ought to, I
think they're deluding themselves to protect their prejudice.
Message: 5240
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Answer !
Subject: Gordon L/Predjudice
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 14:59:35
I agree that the use of the term prejudice is almost always in a negative
sense but was trying to point out that that is not the complete definition
of the term. I would quibble somewhat with part of what you said. You
said, as part of your setup, "...the defendant probably *is* a thief because
he's black..." as an example of people assuming ALL blacks are thieves. But
if you go back to your own statement and examine what you really said, not
what you apparently thought you said, you see that you correctly used the
modifier "Probably". My point being, if you are confronted with the need to
make an assesement of whether a person is or is not a thief the facts are
that for some specific geographic and demographic groups there is a much
greater probability that a black would be a thief then a Caucasian would.
It is simply a statistical fact of life. It is no different then the fact
that there is a profile that the "authourities" have developed that they use
to try and spot terrorists or drug dealers in airports. They have examined
the past and figured out the probablities of who is and who isn't likely to
be in the targeted class.
X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:EC
You chose Cosmos-Chatter
Subject:Thief
Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
1:More downtrodden people tend to steal. More blacks are downtrodden
2:therefore more blacks steal. It isn't because of one's color that makes
3:them a thief, it is more of their position in the social order.
4:
5:Those lowest on the pecking order exhibit different qualities than the
6:higher ones. The higher ones can legally steal while the lower ones can
7:also but will go to jail if caught.
8:end
Edit command:S
Saving message...
The message is 5241
X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:JN
*=* Journey to a SIG *=*
*=* Public Bulletin Board entered *=*
Public Bulletin Board command:$C
Press [A] to abort
Message: 80449
Author: $ Apollo SysOp
Category: Politics
Subject: Down with Bush...
Date: 12/10/91 Time: 17:44:17
I believe we ALL should 'fire' Bush. I am disappointed in his
handling of U.S. economy, his failure to keep his "Read my lips" promise and
his unsure stand on 2nd Amendment rights, just to name a few.
At this time I am putting my support behind Pat Buchanan (A true
conservative Republican) for President.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif- fire them ALL!
Message: 80450
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Politics
Subject: Public Appearance
Date: 12/10/91 Time: 19:15:49
Oliver North will be autographing his new biography _Under Fire: An American
Story_ on Wed., Dec. 11, 1991 at 11am at Books, Etc. 901 S. Mill Ave, Tempe
Center, Tempe, 967-1111
(As I type this, he is autographing at Houle Books, 36 E. Camelback Rd.
Phoenix, until 9pm)
Message: 80451
Author: $ Felix Cat
Category: Entertainment/Movies
Subject: Gordon
Date: 12/10/91 Time: 19:33:30
Re: I spent this afternoon nourishing my spiritual self instead (along with
my family), by attending the First Assembly of God's Christmas Celebration.
We got tickets to go see it this Thursday night.
Message: 80452
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Politics
Subject: Sysop/Bush
Date: 12/10/91 Time: 21:11:40
I like Pat, but president ??? I think he is trying to force Bush back into
the right. That, IMO, is futile.
Message: 80453
Author: James Matlock
Category: Answer!
Subject: Beau/Ox.-Duden
Date: 12/10/91 Time: 21:42:13
Lessee...number 149 is called "Machine Tools I" and consists of 15 pictures
with 72 parts labeled. Numbers 238 and 239 are "Broadcasting (Radio and
Television)" parts I and II respectively. Number 240 is "Broadcasting III
(Television Engineering) and number 241 is "Music Systems (Audio Systems)".
Generally, these picture dictionaries are not at their best when dealing
with high-technology. All of mine, in varying degrees, are closer to a
museum brochure than a catalogue of contemporary items. This is only a
slight exaggeration: the Oxford-Duden for example was published in 1981, at
least the text was; the pictures are copyrighted 1979. Plenty of
reel-to-reel tapes, no CD players.
Message: 80454
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau/dictionary
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 03:08:09
The dictionary I have gives the names of objects in both English and French.
So you can use it to translate from one language to the other. As long as
the word is a concrete noun, that is. I have yet to find the French word
for "exacerbate" or "antidisestablishmentarianism" in this dictionary.
Message: 80455
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: James/counterfeit
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 03:10:08
Tungsten would be a lot nearer the mark. The color is wrong, but that's
easily fixed with a thin coating of gold. The chief difficulty with
tungsten is that it's extremely refractory and very hard to work; but
obviously it can be done. And the price is right.
This leads to the question of whether we could add any more bells and
whistles to our counterfeit-detecting machine that would still distinguish
(e.g.) a tungsten coin from a gold one, based on other physical properties
of the metals. It would be easy enough to tell a tungsten coin from a gold
one just by trying to cut it in half, but for practical purposes the test
would have to be nondestructive. So can we think of any other properties
that could be readily measured? Electrical conductivity is one, but I think
you'd need an extremely sensitive instrument to tell the difference in
conductivity between a gold coin and a tungsten-cored one. A poor contact
on the outside could mask the difference between the two. Induction
perhaps? How about transparency to X-rays? They must both be pretty
opaque. It would also add to the cost and complexity of the machine.
Message: 80456
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Parachute joke
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 03:16:33
This is an amazing coincidence. Although this was an old joke (another guy
I know had heard it years ago), it happened that I'd never heard it before;
and now I've heard it twice in three days. A guy was making a presentation
at a business meeting today, and he started right off by telling that joke.
His version had a different dramatis personae, but it was exactly the same
story.
So does this tell us something about the mysterious way jokes circulate in
the population? Or is it just that somebody told it on TV recently?
Message: 80457
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: counterfeiting
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 04:08:51
The purchase of the machinery necessary to make the dies for the coins would
probably attract a bit of attention.
Would tungsten have the same resonant characteristics as gold? In other
words, would dropping a tungsten based coin produce the same sound as the
original gold coin?
Message: 80458
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Answer!
Subject: Beau/Judgement
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 05:08:04
I don't have time to look up the quote online, but it is as I have
said."Judge not, lest ye be judged." The remainder says something to the
effect that we will be judged in the same manner in which we judge others.
I'm not sure that I understand your question, if it was a question. We will
ALLstand before God one day. He is the final judge, and the only one to whom
judgement is reserved. It is simply not up to us to judge another.
Message: 80459
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Fred
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 05:13:12
Really, Fred, your argument is not with me. It is with God, so why don't you
take it up with Him? Every disagreement we have had to date has been as a
result of your disbelief in God's Word. You seem to think that the Bible is
a bunch of gobbledegook written by men, and I believe it to be the complete,
perfect and unequivacable Word of Almighty God. If the basis of all our
disagreement is as unresolvable as this seems to be, what's the point in
continuing? Neither of us is about to convince the other of much of
anything. There are quite a few things on which we are in agreement. Let's
stick to those.
Message: 80460
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Nick/DING!
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 13:40:58
Resonance sounds like a very good idea. It occurred to me that the
coefficient of elasticity must be very different between gold and tungsten,
even though they're the same density. Tungsten, unlike gold, is very hard
and tough. If you tried to bend both coins, you could soon tell the
difference, but the test has to be nondestructive. You *could* measure very
small distortions resulting from the application of a more moderate force,
but that would take much more sensitive equipment.
It would have to make a difference in the resonant frequency, though. I'm
sure if you struck a tungsten coin it would go DING, and if you struck a
gold coin it would go DONK.
Message: 80461
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: CLiff/Pat B
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 14:33:12
How do you spell "lost cause"??
Message: 80462
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Politics
Subject: B Dog/O North
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 14:34:00
Was that an Endorsement??
Message: 80463
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gold Coins
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 14:40:28
Has anyone considered the amount of "money", "wealth" or "true value",
however you want to think of it, we would be tying up in our coins if we
were to use gold coins for currency. Or the time that would be wasted
makeing sure that we weren't taking in counterfeits -- think of the overhead
involved even a simple cash transaction????!!! Also consider that gold is
rarely used in pure form in jewelry because it is so soft - that is why it
is usually alloyed, most commonly to 14K (58% gold, not exactly pure). It
seems to me that it would be extremely unlikely that anyone would ever use a
true gold coin as currency which makes the likelyhood of counterfeiting much
greater due to the greater ease of counterfeiting alloyed coins.
Message: 80464
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 14:48:44
You are quite off the mark. My comments to you concerning you continuing
statements of judgment have nothing to do with my belief or disbelief in the
bible. For purposes of THIS discussion I am perfectly willing to accept the
bible exactly as YOU want to interpet it. That will change NOTHING about
the fact that you are judgeing people. Are you going to tell me that you
have NO opinion about David Duke? NO opinions about George Bush? NO
opinons about the Pope?? NO opinions about Me??? You can't form opinions
about things or people without making judgments about them. To quote just a
small part of the definition of Judgement => "The capacity to form an
opinion...to make sound and reasonable decisions....something, as an opinion
or estimate...an apprasial or opinion....."
Message: 80465
Author: James Matlock
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: guys/counterfeiting
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 20:11:07
I know that tungsten is ordinarily brittle at room temperatures, but that it
can be made malleable and ductile by mechanical working at higher
temperatures. What effect this would have on the accoustic properties of
the metal, I don't know. I'm just guessing, but I would think that once it
had been processed to the point where it could be drawn out into fine wire
spools and bent into eccentric shapes (*after* cooling) , its coefficient of
elasticity would be much closer to gold's than raw tungsten's would.
Whether a counterfeit coin would nevertheless sound the same as a real one,
when dropped, is probably something which would require empirical
investigation, though I tend to think that one dull thunk is much the same
as another, at least to the human ear, using a crude drop-test.
The question of using other properties to distinguish between them is an
interesting one. My flu (or whatever it is) tends to discourage diligent
research, but if a small effort reveals anything of interest, I'll let you
know.
Fred: good point.
Message: 80467
Author: James Matlock
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: analysis
Date: 12/11/91 Time: 23:45:56
Assuming that the ordinary sound test wouldn't prove anything, the most
practical method I can think of might involve a similar test using
high-energy ultrasonic waves. I know that ultrasound is used to detect
stress cracks and flaws in things like steel girders, by passing the wave
through the metal and noting "accoustic shadows" with a detector placed on
the other side. While this might not tell much about the composition of the
metal, it might reveal patterns characteristic of the plating process used
to cover the tungsten core with gold; that is, depending on the plating
process used, it might be possible to use ultrasound to detect plating in
general. Then again, I'm really just speculating, and have no idea whether
this is realistic. It would be fairly expensive, but certainly
non-destructive.
Another possibility is the use of fluorescent chemicals. The coin might be
dipped in a bath of non-destructive liquid which is invisible in visible
light. It would be absorbed by micro-cracks which would then shine
brilliantly under ultraviolet light. Of course, ordinary coins would
also demonstrate flaws, but it is possible that plated coins would display a
different, characteristic pattern.
Incidentally, I broke open an incandescent bulb and examined the tungsten
filament. It was quite elastic. Does anyone know whether pure tungsten is
used or whether a tungsten compound is used? (Disclaimer: if you decide to
try this, remember to wrap the bulb in thick cloth before you break it: the
implosion could send flying glass bits into your eyes.)
Message: 80468
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Tungsten filaments
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 03:45:51
Tungsten filaments are not only extremely fine, but they're usually coiled.
In fact, at least one manufacturer in the past said that his filaments were
a coiled coil. So I'd expect the filament to stretch very easily, since
it's like a very fine spring.
I'd suspect that the tungsten used in light bulb filaments is fairly pure,
because a major reason for using it is its very high melting point. This is
assuming that an appreciable quantity of other metals would lower the
melting point of the alloy.
Message: 80469
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: For sale
Subject: Xmas Toy suggestion
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 03:47:06
HAPPY FUN BALL(R)
-only $14.95-
CAUTION: HAPPY FUN BALL(R) may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
WARNING: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid
prolonged exposure to HAPPY FUN BALL(R). HAPPY FUN BALL(R) contains a
liquid core which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched,
inhaled, or looked at. Do not use HAPPY FUN BALL(R) on concrete.
Discontinue use of HAPPY FUN BALL(R) if any of the following occurs:
dizziness, vertigo, itching, tingling in extremities, loss of balance or
coordination, slurred speech, temporary blindness, profuse sweating, or
heart palpitations.
If HAPPY FUN BALL(R) begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter
and cover head.
HAPPY FUN BALL(R) may stick to certain types of skin.
When not in use, HAPPY FUN BALL(R) should be returned to its special
container and kept under refrigeration. Failure to do so relieves the
makers of HAPPY FUN BALL(R), Wacky Products Incorporated and its parent
company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.
Ingredients of HAPPY FUN BALL(R) include an unknown glowing substance which
fell to Earth, presumably from outer space. HAPPY FUN BALL(R) has been
shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our
warplanes on Iraq. Do not taunt HAPPY FUN BALL(R).
HAPPY FUN BALL(R) comes with a lifetime guarantee.
HAPPY FUN BALL(R). ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES! [Anon]
Message: 80470
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Fred
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 05:55:00
OK. You win. I judge people according to the definition you presented. Also,
according to that same definition, so does everyone else who has a brain at
all, since forming opinions is one of the basic functions of the brain. All
God's chillun got opinions. THanks for the compliment. Have a great day!
Message: 80471
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: On the Lighter Side
Subject: Happy Fun Ball
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 06:25:21
Isn't that a Saturday Night Live bit?
Message: 80472
Author: $ Fred Smith
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/Judgement
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 07:57:18
Well sure. Of course everyone else forms opinions and judgments. I don't
recall every saying the rest of us didn't. You can't get thru life without
doing so. I don't consider it a failing in you or anyone else that they
judge others; as you said, you'd have to be mindless NOT to do some judging
along the way. I don't recall the exact wording of the biblical admonition
that many seem to think condems and prohibits judging but I believe it goes
something along the lines of "Judge not lest ye be judged". Which often
seems to be interpreted to mean "Don't make judgements". It is possible to
read that in a different, and to me more logical and useful way, and still
believe fully in the bible and God as the person doing the FINAL judgement.
It can easily be read to simply be a warning that IF AND WHEN you engage ni
judging things/people you should do so within the framework you yourself
would like to be judged, i.e., judge others fairly. Wouldn't mean you
couldn't judge others, just be sure you are willing to have the same
"quality" of judgment applied to yourself when GOD comes back and it is you
on the hot seat. Do you see any inherent conflict with that or is it too
"open" to fit into your apparent desire to have a black and white rule for
every aspect of your actions?
Message: 80473
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Yes
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 08:09:26
The Happy Fun Ball is an old SNL "commercial".
Message: 80474
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Entertainment/Movies
Subject: Last/Melissa
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 12:25:14
Ah, thanks. See, I haven't spent all of my life in the U.S., so that makes
me culturally deprived.
I got that piece by E-mail, but the guy who forwarded it hadn't written it
himself, didn't say where it came from, and admitted that he couldn't even
quote it verbatim. I didn't have room to say all that, so I added "Anon".
Thanks for the info so that we can attribute it to the proper source!
Message: 80475
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Messages to come
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:11:59
Okay, I have about 27 messages ready to upload and more yet to write. But I
thought you folks might prefer that I take pity on you, so I'm only going to
upload 11 of them for now, and more later after a decent interval. Or
perhaps an indecent interval. These will run from Green Lantern through
Bill Burkett to the first batch of Fred Smith and, finally, to Beauregard
Dog about Ham Radio.
Thought I'd put in a notice, so y'all wouldn't think I'd forgotten the
messages following these.
Message: 80476
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Soviet gold
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:12:44
GL> Perhaps the Soviets have noticed you can't eat gold and farmers are
GL> smarter than that. They own the real gold.
Oh? Then why are the Soviets starving?
My point is that they could buy food from other countries with that gold.
My point *was* that the object of the exercise is to establish debt-money to
the benefit of the world banksters; bringing that gold into circulation
would reveal the Soviets as not being nearly as needy as they and the
banksters want everyone to believe they are. More briefly, bringing that
gold into circulation would set back the New World Order instead of
advancing it.
Message: 80477
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: The trick
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:13:36
GL> A little inflation is a good thing.
Not by any prudent standard of economic measurement. Absolutely not.
Without inflation, technology and innovation improve the living standard for
everyone, even the poor, *without* the cost of living increasing, *without*
increasing taxes, *without* redistributing the wealth of the producers among
the non-producers.
GL> Deflation or no inflation is bad. Excessive inflation is bad.
GL> Therefore a gold standard is ludicrous. The trick is to keep the
GL> inflation rate to a reasonable level. I would argue that we have
GL> managed to do that over the last several years.
"trick" is the operative word here. If you believe we have (or the FED or
the gov't has) kept the inflation rate to a reasonable level over the last
several years, you have surely been tricked.
Message: 80478
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Get Straight 1/3
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:14:39
RE: "Let me get this straight" from Bill Burkett.
In the order of points listed:
BB> ... have foisted all this fake money on us and have no expectation of
BB> payment in any kind of real money.
Oh, they *do* expect to get paid in some kind of "real money" -- either the
legal tender our laws require us to pay them (gold and silver coin) or
equivalent value in property and means of production and the labor of the
people.
BB> The Banksters will then truly be in charge because they'll have the
BB> only true source of wealth, the world's gold and silver supplies.
No, they will then truly be in charge because our laws say we owe them our
property, our means of production, and the labor of the people. Even the
Constitution has (purportedly, but fraudulently) been amended to prevent
challenge or repudiation of that debt: "The validity of the public debt of
the United States, authorized by law, ... shall not be questioned." (14th
Amendment, Section 4.)
[Continued]
Message: 80479
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Get Straight 2/3
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:15:50
BB> Additionally, in order to accomplish this charade, they have completely
BB> subverted our form of government.
Oh, beyond a doubt. Not without our ignorant and greedy help, of course; no
longer being taught principles to live by, we have descended into greed and
avarice and voluntarily sold out our liberty -- the soul of our nation --
for a few trinkets and baubles *some* people think improves their living
standard, *now,* and shoved the payment for these things off on generations
to come.
BB> The only way to protect one's self from the coming catastrophe is to
BB> have one's own gold and silver reserves.
No. Not the only way. The way to protect oneself is to establish a barter
community using lawful legal tender of gold and silver coin, and then, when
the crash comes, those in that community will not feel it as much as those
outside the community. Of course this requires a certain level of gold and
silver reserves, but merely having such reserves alone won't accomplish much
until many have begun to recover from the catastrophe.
[Continued]
Message: 80480
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Get Straight 3/3
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:16:36
There are many, many other steps people can take and must take to protect
themselves, many of which are valid, but none of which are conclusive or
guaranteed, and none of which will be very successful unless combined with
an overall plan (which includes barter ability), and ALL of which are
subject to the vagaries of life's decision-making.
A BIG advantage of establishing a barter community is that it tends to
offset catastrophes the same way the "underground economy" (which gov't is
now trying its darndest to throttle) has virtually supported the country
economically for the last few years. If enough people got involved in the
"underground economy" (and I'm not talking about drugs or smuggling; I'm
talking about bartering services and needs with others), then the
catastrophe would likely not happen at all. Gov't and the banksters don't
like underground economies; they are prevented from taking their unearned
cut off the top.
Message: 80481
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Backwards
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:17:12
BB> Our money would have been devalued only if we had more, but were paying
BB> the same amount, which is exactly what you seem to be advocating.
On the contrary, our money is 'devalued' when it is worth less than
previously. That situation occurs when we have less for paying the same
amount.
Message: 80482
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Evidence
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:18:10
FS> I still see no evidence of the "gold standard" working "so well"
FS> compared to how much better the average man was able to live AFTER we
FS> went OFF the gold standard.
I'd like to know what support you have for your presumption that the
"average man" was able to live better after we went off the gold standard.
Aside from the fact that the "average man" is a figment of the average man's
imagination, I know of no evidence at all that any member of the middle
class improved his living standard significantly as a result of the gold
being stolen from his investments.
On the other hand, if you see no evidence of the "gold standard" working "so
well" prior to its theft from our Constitutional Republic, then you know
nothing of our economic history at the time of the ratification of our
Constitution and for over a hundred years thereafter -- and, furthermore,
you have ignored the information and documentation I have provided you. If
you want evidence, download "America ... Occupied" from the library and read
it. There is ample documentation therein for you to research the matter
thoroughly on your own; I'm not going to re-write "America ... Occupied"
here for your benefit when you are ignoring what I give you anyway.
Message: 80483
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Preserving fortunes
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:19:20
FS> You seem more concerned with presevring the fortunes of the wealthy ...
Are you kidding me? Nothing "preserves the fortunes of the wealthy" like
the present system. When we have a recession today, the middle class moves
to the poverty class because the middle class is supporting the poverty
class and can't afford to feed themselves too. But to the wealthy, "it's
only paper;" their real wealth is never at risk. They are protected by the
buffer provided by the destruction of the middle class, and that is one of
the objectives of the current system.
Under a gold standard, the wealthy have to bring their gold into circulation
if they want to stay wealthy. Then *everyone* -- rich, comfortable, or poor
-- can have some of it in direct proportion to their willingness to work,
and the economy improves immeasurably. As a result, we all become equals
again -- not equals by artificial gov't fiat which doesn't work anyway, but
natural equals in opportunity and in risk.
Message: 80484
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Oxymoron
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:20:13
FS> I remain on the opinion that you are promoting a gold standard when
FS> what you are really desirous of is a decent government. If we could
FS> get a decent gvt the gold standard would not be needed.
If you think we are going to get a decent government without a
Constitutional monetary standard of intrinsic value, you are more naive than
I thought.
Wake up, Fred! There is no such thing as "a decent government." Never has
been and never will be. The whole purpose of the Constitution of the United
States, unlike documents formative of other national governments, was to
create a government which *could not* lawfully oppress the people,
politically *or* economically, regardless of how indecent and corrupt
government, by its very nature and operation, becomes.
Our government is oppressing us both politically and economically today. It
is still not doing so *lawfully,* and it cannot do so *lawfully,* under the
Constitution of the United States. But it will continue to do so
*un*lawfully so long as we, the people, permit it.
Message: 80485
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Ham Radio 1/2
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:21:46
BD> So, Mr. Archimedes, are you going to get a federally-issued license in
BD> order to operate HAM radio gear? Why don't you just power it on
BD> yourself and refuse to enter an equity relationship?
I received my "federally-issued license in order to operate HAM radio gear"
very nearly thirty years ago. My purpose in studying the code now is to
upgrade my class of license.
There is nothing wrong with entering into an "equity relationship" as long
as you do not waive any inherited and unalienable rights. I have not; my
license is signed "without prejudice." Furthermore, the equity relationship
pertaining to an Amateur Radio License is rather unique in that unlike other
government-issued licenses, the Amateur Radio Service is specifically
prohibited by statute from conducting any commercial activity. This
prevents the U.S. government from presuming that my activities as an Amateur
Radio Operator are subject to any *general* jurisdiction under the commerce
clause of the U.S. Constitution, as they do presume with all other licenses
(even state-issued licenses!).
Lastly, since an Amateur Radio License is compelled under criminal penalties
for anyone wishing to operate on Amateur frequencies, and since there is no
"commercial" involvement, the equity enforcement procedures currently used
to enforce the rules would very quickly get yanked out from
Message: 80486
Author: $ Archi Medes
Category: Politics
Subject: Ham Radio 2/2
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 13:23:03
under them if the FCC were to prosecute me for some infraction I didn't
think was appropriate.
Ultimately, if all else were to fail, the international treaty itself could
be overturned on the grounds that it conveys a jurisdiction over private
non-commercial individuals which is not conveyed in the U.S. Constitution.
Of course, personal responsibility weighs against that option; the result
would be unmitigated chaos on the airwaves.
So, I operate as an Amateur Radio Operator and I obey the rules. If I find
it necessary to preserve liberty (as Russian Amateurs did during the
abortive coup attempt) then I will exercise my inherited and unalienable
right to operate without obeying the rules (as they did).
[By the way, many people wondered how Yeltsin got the word out to the people
and the outlying provinces, etc., and you may have heard he had a small
radio station at Parliament. Well, that radio station was a ham radio
station operated by Russian Amateurs 'illegally,' and there was a network of
Russian Amateurs all across the country relaying messages back and forth to
local governments and citizen groups 'illegally.' The military tried to jam
them, but found it impossible -- they'd just change frequencies and
continue. It was written up in a glorious article in QST magazine a couple
of months ago.]
Message: 80488
Author: James Matlock
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: tungsten filaments
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 19:06:19
I tend to agree with your reasoning (Gordon) about the purity of the
filaments. On the other hand, carbon has similar properties, and was used
as a filament prior to the introduction of tungsten (which required the
discovery of the process which gives tungsten ductility). It's possible
that a tungsten-carbon compound is used.
I believe that this same process is responsible for the change in the
elasticity of tungsten from its raw state. One would not expect a material
of the extreme brittleness which tungsten ordinarily demonstrates, to be so
elastic, particularly as an extremely fine wire.
Message: 80489
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Judge
Date: 12/12/91 Time: 21:20:00
I believe that bible quote goes like this: Judge not lest you be judged.
By the measure you judge you shall be judged.