Apollo BBS Archive - August 1991

Apollo BBS Archive - August 11, 1991

$tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 7916
Author: $ Wild Barbarian
Category: Answer!
Subject: Daryl/evidence
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 17:00:56

 So you don't want to believe that all things (humans included) don't
evolve.  Many of us here say they do, whether we believe in the bibble or
not.  You say that things only happen because your bibble says so.  Well,
how can you prove that the bibble is any more than a human artifact that may
or may not be an account of time in the middle east/southern Europe????? 
You ask us for proof of the process of evolution.  We have cited a fair
number of examples.  Granted we may not have all the answers and some
answers may be a little bit on the vague side.  But at least they are better
than the lame "because the bibble/god says so".

Message: 7917
Author: $ Wild Barbarian
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: daryl/evolution
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 17:04:47

 Where do you get the idea that evolution is a religion????????  It is NOT a
religion, but the mere passing of time along a continuim.  It doesn't care
if anyone prays to it, calls it god, steals money for it in the name of
tribute, etc.  It simple is an ongoing, continuious process that has been
going on for billions of years and will probably do so for a few billion
more.  Hmmmm...Care to tackle an answer to that one????????

Message: 7918
Author: $ Thad Coons
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: John/intervention
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 18:41:52

 When one looks at the fossil evidence of change in the earth, "evolutio"
looks very plausible...I have even heard it speculated that processes that
look to scientists as completely random, are in some cases being directed,
but by means that we are unable to observe. (Given some of the puzzles and
paradoxes of Quantum Mechanics, there are big holes in our understanding of
processes at the atomic and subatomic level of matter.)
  For the record, I do believe that God created the earth, and that it is a
result of conscious, intelligent, purposeful design. I am not so sure that
the Biblical account of the creation is entirely literal, complete, and
satisfactory...Evolutionary change seems a possible and plausible method of
creation, but unless and until there is further evidence on both sides of
the question, I am not going to claim that I "know" the answers...In this
area, I am willing to be open minded.

Message: 7919
Author: $ Thad Coons
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Watches and monkeys
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 18:58:18

  At the molecular level, although it has been demonstrated in the lab that
it is possible for the basic molecules of life to be "constructed" entirely
at random, and even higher orders of structure appear to 'arrange'
themselves (under proper conditions), I am not so sure that this process
continues at increasingly higher levels of complexity.
  (Idle thought....If someone could see an automobile dump which had been
used continuously over a period of years, would he conclude that automobiles
had evolved? But then again, automobiles don;t reproduce themselves.)
  Suppose the "evolutionary" changes we see are a result of conscious
design, and that "natural selection" is not random at all, but proceeding
according to a plan which is unknown to us and includes factors that we
are unable to comprehend or percieve?

Message: 7920
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Wild
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 19:12:50

#7874:

 GL>>Cliff thought the Barbarian was trying to be offensive by referring to
 GL>>the "bibble".  He could be right.  Only the Barbarian himself can tell
 GL>>us the truth.

#7916:

 WB>>Many of us here say they do, whether we believe in the bibble or
 WB>>not.  You say that things only happen because your bibble says so.

Thank you.  I always appreciate getting my questions answered.

Message: 7921
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Thad/Evolution
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 20:37:37

No, but if you are a Paleontologist and are able to classify fossils you
realize that the life forms we see today are related to the life forms found
in strata millions of years old. You also see the relationships of these
life forms found to present-day life form{ --- relationships which lead
inexorably to the fact that evolution has occurred. The question that Darwin
answered wasn't "Did Evolution occur ?", but "How did Evolution occur?"
The evidence is there.

Message: 7922
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod / Former Beliefs
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 22:55:02

     Sounds like your "head trip" was based on personal superstition.

Message: 7923
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Gordon/Appendix
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 22:57:14

    I think I heard something regarding the use of the appendix.  I will
have to try and look it up.  Talk to you soon.

Message: 7924
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ann / Evolution
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:00:58

     I have not been ridiculing you.  I have asked you to prove that
evolution has solid evidence to back it up.  You have only provided theories
and suppositions, and end each one with the conclusion that there is
"overwhelming evidence" (of which I have seen none to date), and that this
"overwhelming evidence" is obvious enough for a total novice to recognize.
 
     I still await this overwhelming evidence that you and Wild Barbarian
seem to have such an overabundance of.  C'mon, why you holding out? It's not
cool to hoard evidence!

Message: 7925
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Rod / Proof Of God
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:05:05

    Rod, again I ask the question that I have asked others that have asked
me to prove the existence of God and have not gotten a reply to.
 
    What evidence are you willing to accept?
 
    What type of evidence would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in your
mind that God exists?
 
Message: 7926
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Barbarian
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:14:23

     You say that evolution is "an ongoing, continuous process that has been
going on for billions of years and will probably do so for a few billion
more."  Can you prove it?  Were you there?  The answer to both questions is
NO.  You rely on faith, and trust that what the scientists say is true.
     Your definition of religion seems to imply that a god is necessary. 
But just ask American Atheists, and they will not deny that they are a
religion.  A religion is an adherence to a particular set of beliefs, not
necessarily a set of beliefs that includes God/a god.

Message: 7927
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Daryl/head trip
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:38:52

It was based on personal superstition.  At the time I called myself a
Christian just as you now do.  Of course your brand of it is correct and
mine wasn't.

Message: 7928
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Daryl/proof
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:41:31

Anything, anything at all that's solid and concrete.  Your god wouldn't have
to actually show itself, just do a big skywriting routine that would be
impossible for earthlings to fake.  It could say something like, "Hi Rod,
how's it hanging", or anything for that matter.

X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 4982
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer !
Subject: Melissa Pee
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 10:33:29

MD> In any case, people have already addressed your ignorance 
MD> about our supposed ignorance as to what the police were really
MD> doing there.  If cops really want to stop "criminal activity in
MD> their area", why don't they get out of the porno theatres and back
MD> on the streets.  [?]

Because if they went to the streets, they would catch less drug crime
than they would in the porno theatres. Simple. Something I have been
trying to point out to you ignorant fucks for awhile. But your blind assed
attitude is that the Cops can do no good, they "run roughshod over poor
people" and because they are busting people breaking the law you cry foul.
Note: When the cops aren't there to arrest the jerk who cut you off in
traffic, your response is "Where are the cops when you need them?"
So what I have seen posted in response is a bunch of whining about the
cops being bored and busting the small time druggies. I'd say it's
better than sitting at a doughnut shop....like Rod Williams wanted us
to believe before. I'd say it was a great job they were doing if they
even prevented *one* coke-snorting, LSD sucking, beer guzzling brain-dead
pervert from driving his 2 tons of mobile steel into an oncomming car
with a family inside.
If porno **WAS** crimeless, I'm positive they *wouldn't* be wasting their
time, but I have first-hand experience porno attracts crime like shit
attracts flies. Quit whining about poor PEE WEE. He fucked up.

Message: 4983
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer !
Subject: Sherif's response
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 10:42:45

I aggree on the asinine value of the response given. That Sheriff should
have his job taken away because it sounds like he has forgotten the
main thrust of his position. It smacks of the pervading attitude we
see in public office anymore; 'I'm above your laws and I'm here to stay'.
 
What one police force does on one side of the country compared to another
police force on the opposite end has nothing to do with the crime at
hand. Although I wont go as far as to say that the cops are perfect
and everything they do has my blessings.
It may well be an indication of frustration throughout the U.S. The cops
begin to go over the line to get some job satisfaction. I've heard it
before time and time again.
But that's another post entirely.
 
Like I said in my last post, porn shops attract crime like shit attracts
flies and the flies are what the cops are apparently after. They might
even mop up some of the shit (Child porn, Teenage prostitution etc)
while they're at it.
I get the impression people like Bill, Melissa, Rod and Gordon would rather
have the cops turn a blind eye to the porno scene than to go in there
and bust the drug dealers and such in exchange for spending their time
on the streets where they *might* see something happen. 

Message: 4984
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: ignorant fucks
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 15:17:13

Are you a Christian ? How can you claim to be one and say "ignorant fuck"?

Message: 4985
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Mike
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 15:47:05

How many of those arrested along with Pee Wee were charged with drug
offenses?  How many were *only* charged with other offenses?
 

Message: 4986
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer !
Subject: Mike
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 16:26:43

I agree, Pee Wee fucked up.  But the reason I want the cops back on the
streets is not to arrest druggies, per se.  I think the gang violence,
robbery and other such "major" crimes are more important than arresting
people for masterbating in an adult theatre.  The prostitution rings, big
drug smugglers, etc are usually the detectives' jobs, something that takes
planning.  These were just bored traffic cops (or the like) that found an
easy target.

Message: 4987
Author: $ Gordon Little
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Green/Question
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 19:04:19

Can you point to the line in the Bible where it says that Christians
shouldn't say "fuck"?

Message: 4988
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Gordon/4987
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 20:40:41

Yes, thank you o benevolent straight man. James 1:26:
"A man may think he is religious, but if he has no control over his tongue,
he is deceiving himself; that man's religion is futile."

Message: 4989
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Words
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 21:19:28

What do you suppose were "bad" words back when they were writing the bible?

Message: 4990
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Cosmos-Chatter
Subject: Beating Off
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:54:11

If someone is jerking his meat in a theater which has children present then
that person should be taken out and be made to seek treatment.

But in a XXX adult theatre, that's different.  I'd bet that some people go
to them not expecting to whip out their wang and having a climax.  I have
seen a total of one x rated movie in my life.  It was a video tape that a
friend loaned me.  I really didn't know what to expect, what my reaction
would actually be.  I can tell you frankly that I was coming all over the
place way before its end.  And that is the truth. And it just so happened
that there wasn't a female around at the time.

Perhaps Pee Wee was just killing a little time between appointments and
didn't realize that his Joe would get real big.  I don't really know because
I am too far removed from the facts just as the rest of us are.

FILm & Video Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 1755
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Review
Subject: Pornos
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 21:24:09

What were/are the best porno films?  I have heard that _The Devil in Ms.
Jones_ is a classic but found that to be pretty weird.  I haven't seen _Deep
Throat_ but don't know if I should bother.  Most sex movies they show on
cable are cut up and really stupid.  I was just wondering if there were any
out there worth watching.

Message: 1756
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: porno
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:55:48

Joel Genesys loaned me one about 7 years ago that was pretty good but I
forget its name.

Late Night Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 2070
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit-Chat
Subject: Ms. Dee
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 23:16:25

    That's just it.  You CAN'T buy the record.  It was on a very small indie
label that has been out of business almost eight years.

Public Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 77492
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/Green
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 09:47:51

You continue to confirm my conviction that there is nothing in your 
religion that is real. Keep it up.

Message: 77493
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Answer!
Subject: last
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 10:32:07

Then it would appear your convictions are shallow and unfounded,
because you need someone to massage them to stay in place?

Message: 77494
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Religion
Subject: witness
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 15:16:16

I don't see how it makes me weak. If you say you are a Christian, your
life had better show some evidence that you are a part of the body
of Christ. If there is no evidence at all --- indeed counter evidence
of mean-spiritedness --- I conclude there is nothing to your claims
of your "special" relationship with God. I also suggest you read St. Paul
and see what he has to say about the life of a Christian. 

Message: 77495
Author: $ Thad Coons
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/James
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 17:58:10

  Hmmm... I wonder. You might have guessed that I am a 'Mormon', from one of
my earlier posts. James White is as "anti-Mormon" as anyone I have ever met,
but from what he told me  our earlier encounters, he is not ignorant about
what "mormons" really do teach...but he persists in proclaiming that they
teach this and that doctrine...
  I have found that most people believe what they want to believe,
especially in religious matters. I would be interested in discussing what my
beliefs are to someone who is genuinely interested, but I see no point in
debating them with someone who has already decided that they are so much
foolishness or worse.

Message: 77496
Author: $ Green Lantern
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thad/last
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 20:29:33

I'd be interested in your beliefs.

Message: 77497
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Thad/Porno
Date: 08/11/91  Time: 22:30:03

  I think it is standard proceedure for any person who becomes
divorced to portray their ex-spouse as the lowest form of vermin. My wife's
sister also got divorced, and during and after the breakup she went back
over every minute of every day they were together with fine a toothed comb,
looking for perversities to accuse him of. I will not repeat the far-fetched
and baseless things she said about him, but they were most non-non-heinous,
as Bill and Ted might say. She eventually got over that phase of total
hatred, and even admitted once that she wished the marriage hadn't been
disolved. There is no person more ruthless and unfettered by the truth than
one who is in the midst of denying to themselves that they could be partly
responsible for a relationship that didn't work. I think divorce lawyers
must advise in favor of cooking up evidence of the ex-spouse's bad character
as ammunition in the battle over child custody, etc.
  Of course, it's possible that the guy really did turn mean, or change his
values (meaning the guy you were talking about). But laying the blame for it
on pornography is probably unjustified. For example, if he was of the view
that there was nothing wrong with pornography and enjoyed looking at it,
but his wife berated him for it constantly and told him he wasn't a fit
husband, etc., until he began to feel that he had married into a mental
prison where he didn't belong, then it could have been this difference of
opinion over the larger issue of personal freedom which drove them apart.
  This is only an example of one way it could work, but my point is that the
source of this data is probably biased and that the whole story may be
a much better one to draw any conclusions from than what we have here. D.H.