Apollo BBS Archive - August 11, 1990


Mail from John Cummings
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:44:36

        I always thought Jesus was shown as the Mideast model, and I've
always admired the black "doctor"--Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo.
        As to the Christian faith healers, they generally fall into the same
category as the atheist New Thought snake oil salesmen.  I do admire the
energy of the Christian groups which devote their lives to the care of the
sick and needy. --Incidentally, name me a few atheist groups who show that
much love and compassion for needy fellow man, ok?
[A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
 1:Well, let's see.  I ran the Digger's Free Store and Crash Pad for several 
 2:years.  I give away free work to those who are in bad financial shape.  I 
 3:buy $tatus for people on Apollo who do not have the funds (and I have done 
 4:this many times, even for Christians who disagree with me).  But besides 
 5:that I am not familiar with the five or six atheist groups that exist, at 
 6:least not at this time.
 7:
 8:I'll tell you what atheists do that Christians do not.  We do not pass out 
 9:lies by scaring our children into mental submission thereby making zombies 
10:out of them.  
11:
12:"Hell is an outrage against humanity...Every step which intelligence has 
13:made in Europe from the edge of darkness has been in spite of the church."
14:                        Victor Hugo
15:
16:That last paragraph pretty much sums it up, DON'T YOU THINK?
17:
18:                                Rod 
Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 68508
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: News Today
Subject: J.T. in New York
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 00:44:03

Mail from James Taranto
Date: 08/07/90  Time: 19:50:49

Hi, I found a new job as assistant culture editor of the New York City
Tribune.

Message: 68509
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Politics
Subject: Taxes
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 00:52:13

        The City of Phoenix is going to tax home owners who have security
systems (burglar alarms).  Only $10.00 per year....  ?????? (this WILL
go up)

        Now isn't that stupid.... penalized for trying to protect your
property or your lives.  They are going to tax us till we bleed.  Maybe we
should make them 'bleed' first!  VOTE these idiots out of OFFICE!

My two and a half cents worth! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 68510
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: In search of
Subject: Roger Mann
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 01:50:42

        Where is the old boy?

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 68511
Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: me
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 02:36:52

Hi.

Message: 68512
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: John C./68504
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:22:38

Well, we agree that each man makes his own God in his own image.  Where we
differ is your assertion that these inventions are real, in the sense that
they are not purely imaginary.
I don't think we can compare "the mores of atheism" to those of Thomas
Acquinas, since there are no general mores of atheism.  Each atheist decides
upon his own mores, just as each believer does.  With regard to Thomas
Acquinas, I am not very familiar with his personal mores.  I can say,
however, that anyone who would create and believe in a God as tyranical as
Thomas Acquinas' God was, is not at a very sophisticated stage of moral
development, and may even be morally corrupt in the sense that he is willing
to overlook the grossest injustices implied by and necessitated by the
tenets of his religion, merely because of the benifits he perceives.
The way Christianity (and to be fair, most religions; Christianity is no
worse in this regard than the others, merely more prominent in this country,
and hence more likely to be the subject of attack by American atheists)
treats unbelievers, is a little like the way human beings in general treat
animals.  Their suffering is (in some minds) to be considered an
unfortunate, but unavoidable fact of life, and we can justify their
suffering provided we reap (as a biproduct) sufficient benifits; for after
all, *we* are the sons of God, not those animals/infidels.  
I am continually surprised by how easily Christians are willing to accept
the eternal damnation of their neighbors, friends, and family, in exchange
for the security their religion affords them.

Message: 68513
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: John C./68505
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:29:02

It is not at all difficult to claim that Christianity is not based on a
loving, merciful God.  Historical arguments aside, have you read the Bible
lately?  What kind of merciful, loving God permits his creations to suffer? 
What kind of loving, merciful God decides the eternal fate of his creations
solely upon their acceptance of him/belief in him?  These are not the
attributes of a Father; these are the attributes of a madman, of a tyrant. 
I am an atheist, but if I were a theist, I would most likely conclude that
the Bible and the holy books of many religions were inspired not by God, but
by Satan; or the equivalent.  Satan is billed as a perverse, malicious,
selfish entity, but a subtle one.  

Message: 68514
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: 68506/pollution
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:31:18

My logic is irrefutable.  Using Sandi's own words, the oxygenated fuels
program reduced auto pollution "across the board (old cars and new)" by
twenty to fifty percent.  Because auto pollution is a substantial
contributor to pollution in general, that is a very significant reduction.

Message: 68515
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/68507
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:34:04

At first, the forces of nature were seen as under direct control of God.  In
order to appease this God-enemy, man offered sacrifices.  The only
difference today is that nature is now considered to be indirectly
influenced by God, and instead of meat and grain, we put money on the altar.

Message: 68516
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Sysop/alarm tax
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:36:34

I agree; its a rip-off, and the whole question of false alarms is merely an
excuse, in the same way that Sadaam Husein's invasion of Kuwait is a rip-off
excused by musty and questionable territorial claims. 
 

Message: 68517
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: 68510/Mann
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:38:22

I don't know.  I called his house on several different days, and never got
an answer.  They must be out of town.  A shame, too; many of my posts and
questions on physics, which I wanted his comment and answer on, are
scrolling off the board even as we post.

Message: 68518
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JB/religion
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 05:49:33

68512: Many Christians *don't* accept the security that their religion
affords them while they see that neighbors, friends, family members are
going to be condemned to hell: This is what turns them into fanatic
evangelicals.

Message: 68519
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: JT alive!
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 05:51:05

JT is an assistant culture editor?  Is that the kind of culture that gets
put in a Petri dish?
 
I thought that JT's definition of culture was pizza and a dirty movie...

Message: 68520
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff/J.T.
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 06:20:49

 Culture editor, huh?
 And we remember him when!
CULTURE?

Message: 68521
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Nicky baby!
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 06:21:33

 HI GUY! Howyadoin?

Message: 68522
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliffy on taxes
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 06:59:56

Pray tell why people are going to be taxed because the have security
systems??? I can't imagine??!!! More idiocy. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 68523
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Question?
Subject: Jeff. B. alarms
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 07:03:01

You mean they are going to tax them because their alarms go off at the wrong
times? My lord, when its this going to stop? -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 68524
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: News Today
Subject: Hopi's
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 07:13:08

I just can't believe the Hopi nation is up in arms over the Smoki dances up
in Prescott!! According to them, they have been fighting to get them to stop
for years and this time, they claim they will do it! It's just another one
of those minorty things over ruling the majority. I hope they do not win. 
The Smoki's have been preforming these dances since 1929. They are the most
mesmorizing thing I ever saw and once you see them, you'll never forget it! 
They, the Smoki's are saying they preserved the original indian dances and
the Hopi's say they aren't. Who is right? Who cares? I'm only sorry I won't
be up there tonight. -=*) ANN (*=-

Message: 68525
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: alarms/wrong times?
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 08:54:50

        If they go off at the wrong time...they are still going to FINE you!
The Tax is for all, even those who never had a false alarm.

*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- 

Message: 68526
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Question?
Subject: ??Nick
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 08:56:21

        Who is this 'Nick' guy?

Message: 68527
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: last/Nick
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:06:19

He is the Godfather of the South West.

Message: 68528
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Alarms/tax
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:10:05

In other words if you do not 'pay up' then your alarm will be taken out by
the PoLICE department and theives will be able to break in.
'
It's like the mafia of the olds days (right Nick) wherein if you don't pay
the protection money then beware.

But if the city figures they need such and such an amount then they will
just put this tax on somehthing else.  How about a shoe tax?  Five Dollars
per shoe per year.  Or maybe a toe tax, one dollar per toe per year.  Or a
butt tax, five dollars per side per year.

Well it's getting there.

Message: 68529
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Translation
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:11:56

A Renaissance literature class in an eastern university was assigned the
task of translating the 23rd Psalm from English to French, then to Spanish,
and back to English.

The final product revealed, not unsurprisingly that much is lost in the
translation.  The new version reads:
      
      God is my guide, but I don't want.  He brings me down in grassy 
      fields.  He brings out my spirits, and leads me to waters.  He sends
      me the right way: His way. etc. etc.

Imagine what has happened from early writing in Hebrew, through Greek, to
old English...to now.
                              From the Satiricon

P.S. Jeff, your messages on religion are so complete in their logic that I
doubt in any Christian will be able to understand them.  In fact I will
personally bet you $5. that they aren't understood and even argued against.

What say ye?                  Rod


Message: 68531
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: In search of
Subject: Old users
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:33:57

Hummmmm.  
Anyone else find it interesting that Nick and JT mysteriously show up after
mysteriously being gone for an unexplained (and therefore, mysterious) long
time?
 
Geez.  And just when JB was catching on...

Message: 68532
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: Taxes
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 15:23:12

Anyone else interested in buying an island out in the pacific with
me? 
We could purchase the isle, build houses on it, 1 Circle-K and
a couple clay-brick roads we could paint with left over white-wash
from our elected officials campaigns here in Phoenix.
Then we could raise the united islands of the pacific flag and
beat the tyranny of taxation in the kings land.
Of course the Red coats would be beating on our shores.....but we have
a weapon of great and awesome power that will send the dogs
scurrying for their washington offices.
Raise the cuban flag and threaten to go communist or worse, or else
send us $800 million in financial aid.
 
Hey Rod, wanna piece of the rock?

Message: 68533
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: War!
Subject: Tax ideas for Moffrd
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 15:31:35

Hey Rose, quit puffing on that cigar for a sec..here's some ideas
for you to rape us with..........................................
(1) Create a tax on stamps sold in Arizona! 
(2) Create a tax on letter boxes. Regulate their taxation value by
    size and color.
(3) Grass tax. For every square inch of grass in any given yard, tax
    the owner monthly. 
(4) Rock tax. For every square inch of desert landscaping in a given
    yard, tax the owner triple the grass tax. (They're turning phoneix
    into a frying pan).
(5) Concrete tax. Rape and pillage time Rose! For every square inch of
    heat sucking concrete, triple then quadruple the grass tax. They're
    making it hard for the aircraft to land because of the thermal
    updrafts.
(6) Computer tax. For every pixel of resolution, tax accordingly, for
    every byte of ram and storage space, tax an equal amount.
(7) Pool tax. Yeah. Stick it to em for wanting to cool off here in
    the summer. Besides, we hafta find a way to pay these muscle bound
    buffoons we call paraidiots, or is that paramedics?
(8) Last but not least. A political campaign tax. Creature entering a
    "polticial race" must pay the taxpayers $50,000,000 or else we
    wont vote.
There. Stick that in your freeway tax and stack it.
                        -Mike\

Message: 68534
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: pollution
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:03:17

Actually, at the time that was institigated, I noticed an immediate
difference in the lower mileage, lower performance and occasional stalling.
Coincidentally enough, about a month afterward everything under the hood of
my car was replaced--every part under there was absolutely new--and it ran
equally bad. About two tankfuls after the oxygenated garbage was gone, it
magically ran as before.
And although neither of you will listen to me, great strides have been made
to reduce pollution from cars...you wouldn't believe how much lower the
amounts of pollution in the air are now compared to, as I hypothetically
said, 20 years ago. There is no reason to torture vehicles when they are
already contributing about 33 times less pollution than the cars of twenty
years ago did. (and there are not 33 times as many vehicles in Phoenix now
as there were then.)

Message: 68535
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: alarms
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:16:03

True, but they are using the issue of false alarms and the expenses incurred
responding to them as a pretext for a blanket tax.

Message: 68536
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: Rod/bet
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:17:52

That's a sucker proposition.  (But thanks for the compliment).

Message: 68537
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Question?
Subject: Dee
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:20:09

Are you refering to certain pseudonymous multiple personalities?

Message: 68538
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Answer!
Subject: pollution
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:25:50

Really?  Everything under your hood was replaced?  My, my.  Well, I guess
that proves it, then.  
 
Oh, and you're right about auto emissions, too, of course.  These days, cars
hardly contribute to pollution at all.  Now they're far too efficient to
compete, what with all the other hot air that's blowing around.

Message: 68539
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Religion
Subject: Beau Dog
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:29:22

You may have something there.  On the other hand, only a small portion of
Christians are evangelicals; and of those evangelicals, only a small portion
are motivated by a desire to see others avoid the fires of hell.  They may
use the fires of hell as a tool of conversion, but their primary concern is
making God the center of their lives, and as proof of this they "witness"
for the Lord.

Message: 68540
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Answer!
Subject: pollution
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 17:32:09

No, that merely proves that the car is well maintained. Pardons for my last
note which was hurriedly written, as the only tv program I watch was coming
on(Daily recap from Saratoga racetrack).
What I meant to be getting at is that the improvement was very minimal in
comparison to expense and hassle for SOME of us. Most of us with older
vehicles watched our gas mileage plummet by up to 25%, meaning that we had
to buy that much more gas(at five or ten cents more a gallon than normal gas
prices). Fuel filters that would've lasted a long time more had to be
replaced by many people. I bought the MTBE gas because the alcohol additives
are bad for gaskets, plastic and rubber parts(and new cars have a lot of
those...I was just playing it safe since I was breaking in a rebuilt older
engine.)
Hard to start, hard to keep running when the car was cold, miserable gas
mileage and depressing performance were the rule rather than the exception
for me and my friends when it came to the oxygenated fuels.
At the same time, 20 to 50%(usually closer to the lower rather than the
upper part of the range, but I'm being fair and giving the honest range that
study results showed) reduction is not very much in comparison to what
twenty years of technology has done to help out cars(over a 3,000 %
improvement). Every year, pollution standards are tighter. In the long run,
I think it's better to improve our technology.
You talk about oil companies profiting and screaming about the fuel change,
which is certainly true, but I think its naive to believe that someone
is not profiting from alcohol-based fuels.

Message: 68541
Author: Chris Neal
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Iraq
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 18:20:28

If anyone hasn't already noticed, Saddam spelled backwards spells "Madd
As's'", I do believe this to be the case.  The guy is mad, not angry mad,
but stupid mad... Like rabies would make you.
 
I think this will be a Khadafy(sp) incedent.  The guy as put himself into a
position where he can't back down, and if we don't kill him, someone will,
maybe even his own people....
 
 
Chris
 

Message: 68542
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Mike Kielsky / Chaos
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:15:53

    Were you serious? Or were they making false claims? I recently read an
article concerning the Chaos incident. That is the one that started with the
investigation into an unpaid .75 online access fee, correct?

Message: 68543
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Speaking of Hussein
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:18:39

   Does anyone with connections into the black market know of a copy of
"International Guerillas" floating around on video? It is the film that
features a Moslem-hating terrorist whose name just happens to be Salman
Rushdie. He is supposed to meet his fate at the end of the film in a bolt of
divine retributionary lightning.

Message: 68544
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod on God
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:24:31

   There you go again, trying to mold God into the image of Rod Williams.

Message: 68545
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod on God again
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:38:33

   Sorry that last message was so short, but I ran out of online time.
   Rod, you seem so concerned with why God would allow any of His creation
to be punished as you attempt to liken it to child abuse.
   But what about GOD abuse, Rod? What about those, like yourself, who do
not, nor ever plan to, treat God with a single iota of respect? What about
those who delight in blaspheming God (does a certain post describing in
detail how you want to 'rub excrement in God's face' sound familiar)? What
about it, Rod? You love to wax eloquent about this 'perfect' (wishy-washy if
you ask me) god, made in the image of Rod's utopian imagination. And yet you
have not yet even attempted to try and live up to these high ideals you
expect of your god-image. You mock and despise those that dare to believe in
God. You lash them with verbal chains. In your state of percieved
superiority, you prove yourself to be nothing more than a pre-enlightened
Saul (I imagine you'd root for him if you ever read the account of the
stoning of Stephen). You stomp on others who dare to humble themselves
before their Creator, and then pound your chest and yell "Is there no one
greater than I? Where are you, God? I'll pound YOU into the ground, too!"
Funny thing is that I can just imagine how utterly small you must look in
the eyes of Almighty God as you do this.
   So, Rod. My question stands. What about God abuse? Do you honestly expect
God to usher those with an attitude like yours into his Kingdom? His grace
has been extended to you through the death of his Son; that measure of mercy
alone to such a God-hater as yourself is mind-boggling. But there will be a
time when that door of grace will be closed.

Message: 68546
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Bill / 68335
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:41:19

   I think you will find the root of this "new" word to be 'dunce.' I guess
it is supposed to be the opposite of Brainiac.

Message: 68547
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff on Mail
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:42:05

   I leave mail in my mailbox at home. Usually bills. Hopefully if they sit
there long enough, the postman will take them away.

Message: 68548
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John on Rod's...
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:44:14

...hellophobia.
 
   I mentioned something about that sometime back. I think it was sort of an
"is it just me, or..." type of post. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one
who has noticed that.

Message: 68549
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John on Rod's 68352
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:47:26

Rod: "I'll answer you in mail."
 
   This usually means that Rod is psyching himself up to unleash a profanity
laden tirade, the likes of which would get him booted off the board were it
posted here. Although I could be wrong, I'm not banking on it.
   By the way, if I am right, and if you captured them to disk, I would be
interested in seeing them. Rod has certainly nothing to hide from me that he
hasn't spewed from his well-oiled fangs already.

Message: 68550
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod on Middle East
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:53:53

   People won't publicly profess to be Christian in Middle Eastern countries
like Iraq because doing so can result in persecution, torture and death! I
know this to be a fact. I have a friend whose name is Sabah. He and his
wife and three children fled Iraq because they were in danger of being
killed because they were Christian. It truly breaks his heart to be away
from his homeland, but he has no other choice.
   In fact, Sabah lost his only Bible, an Arabic edition, when he fled the
country. He had been without a Bible for nearly a year and a half because he
did not know where to go to get one in Arizona. I found a store and ordered
two copies, and gave them to him as a gift. I've never seen a more grateful
look on a human face in my entire life.

Message: 68551
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff B./Acquinas
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:20:05

        I'm conmtinually amazed by the way atheists make up strange
attitudes which they then ascribe to Christians, because they are easy to
shoot down. Yes, if Acquinas were what you say, you'd be right.
Unfortunately, he promoted a kind and loving God--as a matter of fact, his
only real fault was a tendency to excuse women for faults because they are a
"weaker and thus less responsible sex."

Message: 68552
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeff B./God
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:24:39

        Once more, you describe a God I don't know  and have never known.He
does not "permit His creations to suffer." He wills them and gives them the
means to happiness.  He also gives them the gift of Free Will--something no
tother being can demonstrate--and IF THEY CHOOSE TO LEAVE HIM, they have the
will to do so. If they offend against Him and then want to come back to Him,
he welcomes them! Why is that madman or tyrant? I don't think I am that
forgiving to my own kids when they wreck my car, e.g.   --John C.--

Message: 68553
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Joke
Subject: Jeff B./logic
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:26:34

        Read Sandi's post again. Oxygen fuels reduced auto pollution, but
that reduced total pollution only by a barely measurably amount.

Message: 68554
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Satiricon
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:30:12

        You owe Jeff five bucks.       --John C--

Message: 68555
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: All/Hell
Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:39:02

        Remember when we used to discuss Hell? A long time ago--a week or
more.  I've been thinking about it, asking myself did I ever try to frighten
my kids with fearful images which might warp their minds? Yes, I did! I
warned them about socialism! I tried to be kind and loving and gentle, but I
had to be truthful, that socialism robs a person of personal identity and
refuses to reward good work, is therefore unjust. I always hoped none of my
kids would be warped by this, but one of them married a democrat. (I blush
with shame to confess it!) The others have lived good lives, so far.

Message: 68556
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Answer!
Subject: Mike/rock
Date: 08/12/90  Time: 01:57:23

Yes Mike I do.  I would like to start a really funky religion, something
new, you know.  We could up the stakes to 20% instead of ten because it's
new.  Okay?  (Don't worry, you be State & I'll be church, 60/40 split.)

Message: 68557
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandi/pollution
Date: 08/12/90  Time: 02:05:53

I ran MTBE in my van and I did not notice any difference in performance.  I
haven't had a tune up since I bought it 3 years ago and it has passed
emissions with ease.  I heard that it was not a good idea to mix additives
together such as MTBE and the alcohol but I did that by accident once but
then again nothing happened.

I would get a tune up though if my vehicle failed to start so readidly and
that is what I have been waiting for.  I heard that it was not a good idea
to fix something that was not broken.  I do change the air and oil cleaner
religiously, so to speak and have it lubed every 3000 miles.

Perhaps the reason that Phoenix is better off now, pollution wise, than 20
years ago is now we are using a different measuring device or maybe there is
some cheating going on for the benefit of Federal monies. 

Message: 68558
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Chit Chat/Daryl
Date: 08/12/90  Time: 02:19:54

You mention God abuse and I get quite a big kick (he-he) out of it.  It
seems to me that those many religious folks who believe so much in their
particular god try to do its job.  These gods according to the believers are
much more powerful than anything in existence and I do not see why these
gods do not handle the people who abuse them.  It seems to me that by
interjecting on these gods behalfs that you are denying its existence in a
fashion.

Hey, I can whip all gods, bar none.  In my present situation I am much more
intelligent than any god I've ever heard about.

They all refuse to talk to me although I once heard that talk was cheap. 
Hell my business has grown, I am doing new and exiciting things so what's
saappening?

Do you think that one or all of these gods will get me all at once and make
the remainder of my years on Planet Pig Farm intolerable and afterwards let
me bake, broil or fry in hell or hades?  Gee, I dunno, do you?

In any case my situation is far from perfect as a working class economic
slave.  Hey, maybe that's it.  If I worshipped the correct god then maybe I
wouldn't be an economic slave I'd be a rock n' roll star....no you say
because rock n' roll stars all go to lleh...well what about then a great
scientist such as Sagan....no you say cause those kind will go to lleh..then
a short order cook at Denny's.....no you say because the Dennys I'm thinking
of is a gay hangout....then what about me becoming a Catholic Priest...no
you say because all Catholic Priests are going to lleh....then what about a
television preacher because the word can be passed so much better and to so
many more people than just a simple church....no you say because tv
preachers are of the devil....hmmmmmm.

Damn, I think I'll be an atheist and have a free mind even though my
pocketbook is owned by the capitalists.  But I'll work on other things that
may allow me to escape my economic slavery.

Is this how your particular god is punishing me by making me an economic
slave?

Goodbye Daryl,

                                Rod

Message: 68560
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C.
Date: 08/12/90  Time: 02:33:55

If you do not teach anyone that if they do not believe such and such or will
go to a place or eternal punishment or be hindered in any way then I have
no argument with you.  So what's you beef?

There are those who do and they do it often.  These people are sick.

Since you do not then I invoke you to help me stamp out this bigotry.  Yes,
you can help by passing the word.

Thanking you in advance,

                                Rod