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Apollo BBS Archive - August 1, 1990
And it is holding the human animal back from a better, more enlightened
world, a world that awaits brotherhood and decency to all, regardless of
race, color OR creed. -Rod (I had to use this name because Cliff is on my
case for speaking out. He breaks in on me and tries to influence through
bullying.)
Note: This is me logging on as Richard Smith
ATDT2461432
RINGING
CONNECT 1200
Type
Apollo 7.2 300/1200/2400
What is your first name:RICHARD
What is your last name:SMITH
Hello, Richard Smith
Is your name correct:Yes
Caller # 150937 (45 today)
It is now 08/01/90 23:49:34
Message range is (67890-68143)
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Message: 68106
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Religion
Subject: Cliff
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 01:13:38
What you are advocating under Freedom of Religion is that absolutely
anything is permissible.
This includes telling a child that unless they believe as they are told
that they will be punished forever without relief. Does this seem right
to you?
It could also include a host of other ideas all under the guise of
religious freedom, couldn't it?
The only other religious practice that I see as more damaging than messing
up a youths mind with blatant lies is the human sacrifice. The religion
that performs this ritual is rooted deep within Christianity.
From your message I gather that you support the right of religious
expression for all sects including the Devil Worshippers? You'd have to
because to deny other religions their freedom of expression would make you a
hypocrite, wouldn't it?
And while these Devil Worshippers are warping the minds of their young you
would just have to sit back and say, oh well, it's their religious freedom
in action.
But not me. As an atheist I see through the bull and outright lies that
are used to control the gullible human animal. And the poor children, many
of them will grow up carrying this torment around with them that there
exists a living eternal hell. How utterly gross.
This information when presented as a fact to a young person can and does
have effects that resounds for many years. This lie is with them for every
decision that they make during their life. This society would be much less
up tight if this ignorant practice was dropped and replaced with a thought
of kindness and love. Fat chance for now, eh? -Rod
Message: 68108
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Religion
Subject: Rod
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 01:42:37
Re: Religious FREEDOM (to express) Free speech and right to preach.
I never said Religious murder...I said 'Religious Belief'... Get your facts
straight!
Hell is not being with God as John said. It is not you being burnt on the
foot by hot brimstone.... Try and seperate facts... keeping them secret
from anyone is not education.
To pass a law that you can't talk about the Devil or HEll is
utterly stupid!
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
Message: 68109
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff Lochansky
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 02:15:25
I wouldn't be surprised that an Apollo mission detected time-dilation, but
I *would* be surprised if the difference were as great as 14 seconds. I
don't think I'd believe 14 milliseconds. But 14 microseconds is approaching
believability.
There was a time-dilation experiment with two extremely accurate clocks,
one at the bottom of a skyscraper, and one at the top. They detected the
time-difference caused by the difference in the Earth's gravitational field
at the two points.
====== Pascal =(O,O)= Hoot! MacProgrammer ======
Message: 68110
Author: $ Steve MacGregor
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beck/Relativity
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 02:19:38
You're missing the point; Doppler effect has nothing to do with the
*speed* of light. In fact, the effect was first noticed with sound. It's
what causes a car that passes you as you're standing by the road to have a
higher-pitched sound as it approaches you than as it recedes.
The color of light is not the same as the *speed* of light.
====== Pascal =(O,O)= Hoot! MacProgrammer ======
Message: 68111
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Religion
Subject: John Cummings
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 05:57:21
Good response to the latest Williams garbage, John. Personally, I have
refused to stoop to his level of ignorance a couple of years ago, and remain
adamant in my refusal to respond to his frequent attacks. For the most part
I just use the (S) key when his name shows up and let it go at that. One of
these days he will face his maker with all his wrong answers. That should be
interesting.
Message: 68112
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C. on Rod
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:19:16
I think his hell questions were real questions and deserve an answer. I am
not an athiest, but do not believe in hell per se - am interested in what
other's think about it. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68113
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon on Circus
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:27:07
Tell us about Picadillie (sp?) Circus! Are the English people as frustrated
as we are regarding our politicians? Does most of them love Maggie? Have
fond memories of Churchill? What about love for the queen? Don't they feel
that money paid to her wasted for the most part - An expensive tradition?
Like Jeff L. said at the GT - "too bad you can post with your accent"! Ha.
We didn't know you were English. Really liked your Jane too. You are a most
interesting fellow Gordon. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68114
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Pauley on tape
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:31:26
I will admit you are the hit on the small amount of tape I took. At least
with you, no film goes to waste - you do not just sit there or hide from the
camera. Yes, Melissa and Sandy are good looking - but your a cutie pie too.
Now you ought to print that out - may be the last compliment you get from me
- for an eternity! *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68115
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John C. & Sandi
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:34:44
It is well known among the older members that if there's a GT and new
members that the others have not met do not come, then they are suspected
automatically of being 'one of us' - with an alias. As a matter of fact - I
would venture to say all new members are suspect! Ha ha. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68116
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff L.
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:38:12
Congrats Jess on recieving the 1990 Bill Burkett Apollo Foundation grant!
You deserve it. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68117
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliffy on Jeff L.
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:40:30
I recommend that Jeff have access to the Cos sig and the Old Farts sig.
-=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68118
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Religion
Subject: Oh hell!
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:45:44
How many here believe that hell is right here - not on Apollo, but this
world? -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68119
Author: $ Ann Oudin
Category: Religion
Subject: Cliff on fire
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 07:50:36
If hell is not depicted as 'fire and brimstone - eternal pain - the devil
poking you in the butt with a pitch fork' - then where did all that come
from? Every religion I went to preached pain and suffering for eternity. No
one said anything about Separation from God as being the punishment - the
only punishment. Please explain. -=*) ANN (*=-
Message: 68120
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: rod/religion
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 08:03:12
When I was a kid I was told that if I made fun of the Holy Ghost I committed
the unforgivable sin and was condemned for all eternity. This, amongst other
things, has warped me for my entire life. On the other hand, I don't think
I'd like my sainted grandmother locked up for life (call me sentimental, but
you CAN go too far.)
Message: 68121
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: jeff/doppler
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 08:08:41
The velocity of sound through air is constant, just like light through a
vacuum. If you move relative to the sound source the sound rises or falls
accordingly, yet the velocity of sound with respect to you is still the
same. The same is true for light.
I think someone else mentioned confirmation of time dilation on the moon
journey. I believe that the difference in the clocks were measured in
milliseconds, which can be a very long time depending upon the accuracy
of the clocks (which I believe were some atomic clocks with fantastic
accuracy).
Message: 68122
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: jeff/purpose
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 08:16:03
Relativity has no purpose. It is a phenomenon "explained" by the special
theory of relativity. The equations allow us to calculate the mass of
an object moving relative to an observer. Since there is no preferred frame
of reference, we can only measure the physical attributes of an object with
respect to some observer. An object has "rest" mass that is the mass
measured at rest with respect to some observer. The object is not really
at rest, for it sits on a table on the earth rotatings at 1000 mph about
it's axis and at jillions of mph around the sun in a solar system moving
relative to other solar systems in a galaxy moving relative to other
galaxies. So, the only thing you can measure is the physical attribute
relative to yourself. So, everything is relative.
Message: 68123
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: Rod on Hell
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 08:16:51
I object. I think Rod has a very, very good point. As far as hell being
real, PROVE that hell is real.
Message: 68124
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: GT/strangers
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 08:20:34
I recommend : at we wear nametags at the next GT.
Message: 68125
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Hell
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 09:17:37
I don't think that all parents who tell their children about the horrors of
hell are purposely trying to be sadistic. In fact, I am sure many of them
believe it themselves and are trying to give warning.
However, does that excuse them of the damage done? I remember one uncle of
mine who would say that if I was bad the boogie man would come get me. I am
sure many of you out there heard something similar. Now, while that was
obviously a bad choice in trying to instill good behavior, it seems to be
working on the same level as "if you are bad, you go to hell". It is very
hard to prove mental or emotional child abuse. Calling up CPS and telling
them that a christian (or whatever religion) family is abusing their child
by threating them with hell would only make the caller look insane. Besides
it is not so much the words that parents use but the way and intent in
which they use them.
As for hell on earth: sure. Since I don't believe it exists as another
place in another dimention after death, and the people who thought it up are
on the earth, where else could it be?
Message: 68126
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Joke
Subject: Cliff's Kids
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 10:05:07
> My boys know about HELL... They have not been screwed up.
I noticed at the GT, and in my other visits to your house, that
your sons are always well-groomed and quiet, and seem to be
conducting themselves quite well. Pretty screwed up if you ask
me!
Message: 68127
Author: $ Bill Burkett
Category: Answer!
Subject: Crowded Apollo
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 10:05:56
I've seen a couple messages recently about difficulty
getting into Apollo because of busy signals.
$tatus users should be reminded they can answer with a "$"
when asked if their name is correct. This causes the system to
automatically go through all the user's SIGs (including the Post
Office) non-stop, reading all new messages. Now, of course you
should have a capture buffer open and dumping to disk as you go,
but it allows you to get everything on the board very quickly.
When it's done, go off-line and read at your leisure,
composing replies as you go (If your word processing software
allows it you can even have the original message on-screen as you
write!) and saving them as ASCII files. Then call again and
upload your replies.
I got through the entire system this morning in just over
two and a half minutes and expect to spend less than two more
sending four public messages and one letter.
Try it! It's painless and frees the system up for others!
Message: 68128
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Answer!
Subject: the real me/reprise
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 11:46:20
Like I said a while back, I exist as a separate entity, really I do!
Ha ha. By the way, I'm happy to be the newest $tatus member of this board
and I look forward to many philosophical debates...
Message: 68129
Author: $ Sandi Marlin
Category: Question?
Subject: buffer
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 11:50:08
In reference to the suggestion to load everything into a buffer, I'm not
sure what to do...I suppose I have something like that but I don't know how
to make it work since I just got this software. I'm running Procomm 1.0. Any
ideas?
Message: 68130
Author: Red Dwarf
Category: Religion
Subject: hell + c
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 12:17:52
It's strange to me how people who can understand the physics of light can
also belive in hell. As far as my beliefs, if something can not be described
with mathmatics it doesn't exist. Light can, hell can't. I suppose you can
scare children with relitivity too though....
Message: 68131
Author: Red Dwarf
Category: For sale
Subject: New BBS
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 12:21:35
John McCain is in big trouble...
Jim Wright has had it...
Dick Nixon never had a chance...
Don't let what happened to them happen to you.
Join the support group for wayward politicians:
The Tempe Twenty BBS - 24 hours -
Uncensored political discussion
The Jesse Helm Museum of Modern Art
Live communists...
call 731-9538 731-9538
7N1 300 baud
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Message: 68132
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Annie
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 14:26:20
Re: "How many here believe that hell is right here - not on Apollo, but
this world?"
Interesting statement Annie. I heard someone once say, "This world is the
only hell believers will ever know, but the only heaven unbelievers will
ever know."
Message: 68133
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Cliff
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 14:26:54
Re: "To pass a law that you can't talk about the Devil or Hell is
utterly stupid!"
Sad but true. But the way this old world is going we will probably see it
come to pass.
Message: 68134
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Roger
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 14:27:29
Re: "When I was a kid I was told that if I made fun of the Holy Ghost I
committed the unforgivable sin and was condemned for all eternity. This,
amongst other things, has warped me for my entire life."
For your entire life, Roger? I have always wondered how you got "warped"
like that. Ha!
Never-the-less, anyone who has studied the Bible very much knows the above
warning is false. Actually there are quite a few false teachings that are
based on Bible verses that never existed. I am very pleased thought that
you wouldn't lock up your grandmother.
P.S. I wonder how Rod got warped? I wonder if his grandma is in jail?
Re: "PROVE that hell is real"
PROVE that hell isn't real. I don't think one can prove either, this side
of death.
Message: 68135
Author: $ Bob Thornburg
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Sandi
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 14:27:52
Re: "I'm happy to be the newest $tatus member of this board and I look
forward to many philosophical debates..."
Congratulations Sandi! You sound like you're halfway intelligent. Apollo
needs more people like you on board.
Message: 68136
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Religion
Subject: bob/hell disproof
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 16:10:08
If something does not exist, it is impossible to prove that it doesn't. This
is one of the reasons that the prosecution has the burden of proving the
guilt of an accused person. Likewise, the burden of proof is on the person
who asserts "Hell exists." Consider the following fanciful assertion: The
Universe was created by a group of 3 super-beings from a parallel universe.
If you say to me (rightfully): "prove it" and I respond with "prove it is
not true" you would, again rightfully, say that it is impossible to prove
the non-existence of an entity that does not exist. Hell, God, and other
objects which may or may not exist, must be proven to be true, for the
prooff
of their non-existence, if they truly do not exist is impossible.
Now, we come to an interesting point. What unprovable things should we
believe ? Should we disregard all unprovable things ? Some folks, in fact,
hold to this paradigm.
Message: 68137
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ann/Old Farts
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 18:54:57
Jeff L's body hasn't been around the sun enough times to qualify him for the
Old Farts SIG.
Message: 68138
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Jeff B/Alias
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 21:35:44
I'm joking, I'm joking! I didn't do it. If I did do it, I would have
used a nom de guerre like Fidel Castro or something.
Message: 68139
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/Hell
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 21:43:23
Please elaborate on my sick sick puppyhood. If I teach my children
that breaking the law of the land in a serious manner can land them in
Florence for the rest of their life, do I abuse them? Do you teach your
children to ignore the laws re: murder, treason, etc? Do you protect their
young innocences from the fact that crime results often in punishment
or even sometimes bad times in hard circumstances?
Well, I try to be fair and teach my children that killing is wrong.
I also teach them not to reject God.
But the serious question is: Am I to take your unfounded statement
with no corroboration, just the fulmination, or do you have some reeasonably
serious logic behind that absurd accusation? --John C.--
Message: 68140
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/religion
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 21:47:45
Rod, are you really advocating kindness and love? Or are you
dictating Rod's version of kindness and love and demanding that the world
accept it?
Message: 68141
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Religion
Subject: Ann/Hell
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 21:56:42
In the early Middle Ages, the fire, brimstone and devil with
pitchfork were illustrations used to explain the point that separation from
God was the worst possible punishment, much worse than fire, brimstone, and
butt pokes from pitchforks. Artist found it easier to draw fire and
brimstone than separation, so it became common. It has always been used,
even in Old Testament times, as an example of real pain, but the Christian
theology says that the pain of Hell is in separation from God, not burning.
The theology is that the sinner who blinds himself from God and dies not
wanting God will be punished by the final knowledge of what he is missing.
That is not very coherent, but I think clear. --John C.--
Message: 68142
Author: $ John Cummings
Category: Religion
Subject: Roger/Hell
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 22:00:26
Hell, I don't want to prove that Hell is real! But I think a good
point can be made for believing in God, and by extension, allowance for
those whose Christianity calls for Justice. (Hell is the result of that long
argument on Justice. I don't want to pursue that here, ok?)
Message: 68143
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Religion
Subject: {Rod stuph
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 23:02:02
Parents who use religion have children that use religion...
"Where'd you learn to do the lord's prayer!?!?
"I learned it from watching you, ok?"
Message: 68144
Author: Richard Smith (NOTE: Rod Williams)
Category: Religion
Subject:The last
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 23:15:38
Finally and in conclusion I would like to point out that a great part of
our troubles in this world are a direct result of a belief system that is
dangerous to the mind. In fact this belief system has resulted in the
majority cases of mental illness, not only in this country but throughout
the world, save for a small percentage of the population.
When a person goes throughout their life, inwardly believing that what lies
ahead COULD be eternal punishment because they have been taught it but the
person has in their own eyes fell short of the goal demanded of them by
their peers then forms of insanity take over.
When a person believes this nonsense taught to them about hell being real
but knows that their mother or father is without their belief then the pain
suffered by the believer knowing the parent will spend eternity in the
punishment of hell will cause insanity.
Just trying to make a decision based on logic by a believer will find them
stuttering between faith and common sense and usually shades the results.
It is a world gone mad with many people passing onto others that unless
they believe like they or their pastor interprets then eternal damnation is
awaiting.
Public & Free Bulletin Board command ( for help):ER
Level of shields prevents message entry ROD'S NOTE: only one message
allowed.
Public & Free Bulletin Board command ( for help):G
Goodbye, Richard Smith
You were on 05:37
Please hang up now
>L!B +Pg` %|
VOICE
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CONNECT 1200
Type
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What is your first name:RICHARD
What is your last name:SMITH
Hello, Richard Smith
Is your name correct:Yes
Caller # 150938 (46 today)
It is now 08/01/90 23:55:36
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Message: 68145
Author: Richard Smith
Category: Religion
Subject: last of 2
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 23:28:13
And the biggest moral crime of all is for an adult to tell to a child that
a creator exists that has made a torture chamber far worse and for far
longer than any human ever devised. That unless they believe as they are
told that this torture chamber awaits them. And that this creator is all
knowing and all loving and does not lift a finger to cause anyone pain or
suffering but that the individual does it all to themselves. How sick.
But you can not hold to blame these mentally deranged people that spread
this evil because they have been taught it or have grasped it due to a
maddening and illogical world that is based on greed. It is in reality an
escape mechanism that may seem like a lesser of evils but this one part, the
one that says "eternal hell" is going to far. This idea of hell is from
mans basic hatred and the desire to see his inquisitor punished. It is
like, "I told you so and now you will be punished forever by my god because
you have hurt me and do not believe as I do." It is like a witch who puts a
curse on those she feels has done her wrong. It is from mans early
ignorance and has been passed down through the ages from person to person.
And it is holding the human animal back from a better, more enlightened
world, a world that awaits brotherhood and decency to all, regardless of
race, color OR creed. -Rod (I had to use this name because Cliff is on my
case for speaking out. He breaks in on me and tries to influence through
bullying.)
Message: 68146
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Jeffs
Date: 08/02/90 Time: 00:30:06
Since there are now TWO Jeffs with status, I propose that Jeff Beck be
refered to as JB since he seems to have replaced JT. The new Jeff will have
to earn his own reputation over time.
Message: 68147
Author: $ Jeff Lochansky
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Names
Date: 08/02/90 Time: 01:03:08
Well, to avoid the confusion, when addressing posts to me just refer to my
alias of Mad Max, believe me, it's one of a kind. That would kind of reduce
the confusion with all the jeff's on Apollo.
THE
M M A D M M A X
M M A D M M A X
M M A D M M A X
Mail from Melissa Dee
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 08:56:44
Damn! I wanted to go to Kinko's today to get my copies done. Oh well. I
hate it when I go to other places cuz people just sit there and read my
stuff as they copy it.
Well, happy fucking!
Mail from Apollo SYSOP
Date: 08/01/90 Time: 11:33:45
I tried to call you after I 'playfully' zapped you last night. But
you did not answer the phone to my amazment. Then I felt bad and waited by
the phone to 4 am this morning... but sniff..you did not come in.
I was up late last night because I was sick...and that does not
leave me in the best of moods. However, it is difficult tring to get into a
good mood when you call us Christians names, names, and more names. I can
say Atheist *without* putting a colorful metephor in front of it. Why don't
you try the same when you talk to us Christians? I don't mind your views,
but the hateful namecalling sends me up a wall. And you claim love..that is
a crock!
See ya....
Oh yea, if you did not see the post... Sandi is all set up on $tatus as you
asked.
*=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=* <-clif-
Goodbye, Richard Smith
You were on 00:49
Please hang up now
taQIgRod,_d> G'ENG
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