Apollo BBS Archive - April 1990

Apollo BBS Archive - April 13, 1990

Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

Message: 64724
Author: Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: NUDE GIRL V
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 19:02:32

Why don't you want to bring your Ranch Rifle along to the GT, Cliff?  I 
got the impression you thought that somebody might take your picture with 
it and use it to prove you were a "gun nut".  But that doesn't make 
sense.  Gun nuts don't use Ranch Rifles.  Everybody who complains about 
"gun nuts" knows what kind of guns they use.  They use bad guns.  Bad 
guns are constructed entirely from metal and plastic and are black and 
gray.  They are inelegant, with all kinds of weird high-tech shapes and 
lots of projecting screws and buttons, sometimes a wicked-looking spiky 
thing jutting out the front, and always a big long box sticking down in 
front of the trigger.  The black guns with the very curved boxes are 
especially dangerous, because Communists and Arab terrorists use those.  
You can tell just by looking at a bad gun how dangerous it is.  Only a 
nut would want to own one, because they have no sporting uses; they're 
only for killing people.  And bullets from bad guns are far more lethal 
than bullets from good guns.

Good guns are more streamlined, and they have nice polished brown wood on 
them.  Good guns have been around for generations.  They look familiar 
and friendly.  Great-Grandad used to hunt buffalo with them, and the 
cavalry used them when they galloped up to rescue you from the Injuns.  
Good guns look very much like that Ranch Rifle (as long as you don't fit 
a long magazine on it).  Yeah, I know some nut used one to wipe out a 
bunch of people in Canada, but the people who are most up in arms about 
that probably couldn't recognize a Ranch Rifle from a revolver anyway.

Message: 64725
Author: Gordon Little
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Previous message
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 19:07:21

I DID put "gun drivel" in the subject line, but there must be a
communications fault on my modem or something, because the letters seem to
have gotten mixed up.  I hope Roger didn't go ahead and read it expecting
something about ladies without any clothes on, because I'm sure he'd be very
disappointed.  Anyway, we seem to have succeeded in making a gun nut out of
Roger now, so I guess it doesn't matter.  :-)

Message: 64726
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: War!
Subject: Kid petting
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 19:45:13

What's all this nonsense about kid petting?  

If someone want to pet a baby goat I don't see ANY reason why this should be
prohibited.  It this DARN government taking away one more of our rights.

I'm very surprised that the zoo hasn't said something yet.  The next thing
you know they'll get rid of all pets and make you put a fence around your
pool. 
 
E. Lattella

Message: 64727
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: gordon/nude drivel
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:05:29

I kept looking for the nude drivel but all I saw was gun drivel. A
fine waste of my time.

Message: 64728
Author: $ Dean Hathaway
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Shootout
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:27:19

   Since my wife and most of the others would be able to attend on the 28th
of April I think we should plan on it then. I am sorry that Beau won't be
available then, but we can always have another one soon (assuming we survive
this one).
   See You Later
      Dean H.

Message: 64729
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
Subject: Shootout!
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:48:55

Go ahead and plan on the 28th.  Have fun!

Message: 64730
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/your posts
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:54:11

I skimmed them, been to under-the-weather to pay attention to them.

Initial reaction: Evangelical Xtians use a Bait-and-Switch tactic

Message: 64731
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/tt
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:54:28

So, seconds, hours, etc. exist. What are they?

Message: 64732
Author: John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: English
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 21:30:41

What this country needs is a good drive towards literacy among kids. Enough
of this petting nonsense! Teach them the parts of speech and the uses of
pronouns! Each year our high schools graduate an army of functionally
illiterate people who go into the job market and find they are qualified for
minimum wage labor. Even Rod, who feels sorry for the underpaid, has trouble
with the English language . (The object of the preposition takes the
objective case, not the nominative.) If we could teach English and grammar
from Kindergaten to 4th grade, and review it from then on, we'd get a bunch
of young adults who could learn math and science and maybe compete with the
Japanese and the Germans.   They should also learn how to field strip the
M-16 and lay down cover fire in three round bursts.  But English should be
primary.  Also, Ann O is very sexy. Is she more than 13?

Message: 64733
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gordon Little?
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:02:44

        I don't have a 'Ranch Rifle'....  I said I had a 'Ranch filer'...
You all know that is the tool for keeping the barbed wire points sharp!
And you are correct, I do not wish to be photographed, that is why I will
not be there on the 21st or the 28th.  Besides, them things scare the snot
out of me!

        Anyone for a PIZZA GT on the 28th?  

                        FLOWER POWER!

                                                i

Message: 64734
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Rod/64723
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:14:21

RW: "If petting had been illegal when you were 11-13 would you be considered
     a criminal?"
 
Nopers.

Message: 64735
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau/64730
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:20:57

  First of all, I sympathize with your condition, and I hope you enjoy a
speedy recovery.
  However, I would ask that you capture those posts and print them out or
save them or something (that is, if you think they might scroll off before
you are well enough to respond).
  I am not boasting, but I did spend a good amount of time thinking out and
researching my response to your initial post. Therefore, I would appreciate
an equally thought-out response from you. Trust that, as soon as you are
better, I am going to press you for more than a "one-liner" response. I
know you are an intelligent individual, and we can make this discussion
interesting as long as neither of us becomes condescending.
 
   BTW: That Be Bop Deluxe CD that showed in my catalog, never shipped from
the record label. As far as I know, it still doesn't exist.

Message: 64736
Author: $ James Hawley
Category: Answer!
Subject: Ranch refil
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:51:21

What a wimp.

Message: 64737
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: shotguns
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 23:19:46

As for penetraton, it depends on whether you are using shot or slugs.

Message: 64738
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: Sex & Love
Subject: James/kids
Date: 04/12/90  Time: 23:25:34

Hear! Hear!  After all, we're all creatures of the Earth.  (watch for this
one in the next thirty years or so)

Message: 64739
Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Ranch Lifer
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 00:14:26

        Refill has TWO 'L's dork!

        LIFER , FLIER, FILER

                But never ever did I mean to say 'RIFLE'  

                        i

Message: 64740
Author: $ Zak Woodruff
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: various
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 01:50:01

Cliff (aka "i"): "Refill" does not have TWO 'LL's.  If it did, it would be
"refillll."  (Two double-"L"s equals 4 Ls.  Dork!)

Daryl:  Those were good messages.  I have a lot to say, but will take the
opportunity, as you did, to organize my thoughts beforehand.

Steve Carls:  Are you studying Ameslan, or are you trying to offend all the
deaf Apollo users out there?  Instead of blank space, use the Garrett
Morris approach...
 
John Cummings:  Do you really think the U.S. Army during WWII consisted
mostly of gun nuts?  I'd like to see some statistics about how many trained
soldiers were already adept gun-owners.
 
Paul Savage:  You should write Hallmark cards.
 
Melissa Dee:  Petting at age 14 or under should be illegal.  Not because of
the age per se, but because they simply do not know what they are doing. 
Inexperienced petters should not be allowed to pet, PERIOD DOT.  ("...My
daughters both know how to pet...every weekend I take them out to the
petting range...")
 
Cliff (again):  Let's have a PIZZA GT.  Yay.  Is it OK if I bring my
camcorder?  Thanks.

Message: 64741
Author: $ Melissa Dee
Category: Answer!
Subject: Mr. Mann
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 02:22:52

No, I don't think they will ever have Sam grow up.  He gets too good of
rating for them to try and change him.  However, they are coming up on their
last season.  It'll be interesting to see what they do to all the
characters.  I haven't been paying much attention to the real time show but
I should be able to catch up during the summer.
I too prefer the earlier reruns but because of the Sam and Diane
relationship rather than for Coach.  I don't particually like the Woody
character though, either.  It's hard for me to find humor in stupidity, I
guess, since I see it everyday at ASU.

Message: 64742
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: News Today
Subject: Palo Verde
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 03:14:08

The following messages are quotes and paraphrasings from the 4-12-90
Republic article, and from a book called DOUBLESPEAK, by William Lutz,
subtitled "How government, business, advertisers, and others use language to
deceive you."

Message: 64743
Author: $ Jeff Beck
Category: News Today
Subject: the NRC
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 03:15:44

It should come as no surprise that federal regulators from the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission decided not to fine Palo Verde, despite the fact
that the head of the utilities division of the Arizona Corporation
Commission has said that "The fact that there's no fine is inconsistent
with what they found . . . the report doesn't seem to pull any punches,
but the action seems to."  He also said that a financial penalty seems in
order because of the severe safety implications.  Three instances were
found within four months during which access to high radiation areas were
left, according to the NRC, "open, unoccupied, and unguarded."  NRC's
regional director and a top radiation regulator told  Palo Verde management
during a closed-door meeting March 30 that access to those areas was
"unacceptable and was in need of immediate improvement."  Despite these
statements, found in minutes of the meeting which were made available
Wednesday, an NRC spokesman said that the violations this time were not
that serious.  A memo from the director of the NRC's radiation safety and
safeguards division said, "We urge that attention be directed toward
improving personnel performance to ensure the safety of licensed activities
is maintained."  
 
Note the wording of this last statement.  Despite the fact that Palo Verde
personnel have failed to correct longstanding problems of controlling
access to these sensitive areas, the NRC director talks of "ensuring that
safety is *maintained*.

How is it that, despite the 1975 Sunshine Act, which requires that all
meetings of governmental bodies be open to the public and that written
records of the meetings be kept, the NRC is holding closed-door meetings?
In 1985 the NRC amended its Sunshine Act regulations so that it could meet
in private "nonmeeting gatherings" without written records of what took
place in such "non-meetings."  Members of the NRC argued that closed
meetings fostered "congeniality" and that open meetings tended to have a
"chilling effect" when it came to testing ideas among its members.  So the
NRC decided that its general discussions, technical briefings, and "brain-
storming" sessions *about safety* were not meetings as defined by the
Sunshine Act.
In a 1988 series of articles on the problem plagued Oyster Creek nuclear
power plant in New Jersey, reporter David Vis of "The Press" in Atlantic
City discussed the double-speak of the NRC.  NRC inspectors never say
they've discovered machinery prone to breaking down; they say that "a
failure mode has been identified."  Equipment doesn't fail, fall apart,
crack, explode, or disintegrate; it "fails to meet functioning criteria as
per design requirements and specifications."  NRC personnel would never say
that a particular plan, action, or procedure was a bad idea, unsuccessful,
wrong, or just a plain waste of time; they say that "management attention
and initiatives to meet and address these concerns have not been entirely
successful."

The Oyster Creek nuclear power plant is located in the middle of a densely
populated area.  In case of a severe accident, the design of the plant is
such that, in the words of the NRC, it would allow "immediate high
consequences," meaning radioactive contamination to people living downwind.
The containment system at the Oyster Creek plant was designed to "absorb the
energy release of a maximum credible accident involving the rupture of the
reactor coolant system," according to a plant systems description prepared
by the plant operator.  But the list of "maximum credible" accidents did not
include a complete loss of coolant and emergency coolant, a failure of
safety systems, operator error, core damage, or meltdowns, because the NRC
believed the chance of any of these accidents occurring was "incredible."
In 1982 the Energy Department and the NRC spent $10,000 for a "Witness and
Media Skills Clinic" designed to teach employees how to answer questions
from reporters and members of Congress, especially during an emergency
situation.  Participants were told to give the "impression that things are
going well" and to "avoid embarrassment."  They were asked "what position
do you want the public to hear?" and were also told how to "handle
questions for which I don't want to give an answer," while still managing
to "look good." One participant was a Three Mile Island contractor executive
who acknowledged that TMI radiation detectors had malfunctioned and were
potentially dangerous.  If talking to the manufacturer he would say that the
devices had been "very misleading."  But "if the critic is anti-nuke," he
would say that "these are radiation monitors, not safety-related equipment,
and therefore not required to operate correctly under accident conditions."

The NRC uses similar double-speak when counting accidents at nuclear power
plants and reporting them to Congress.  In one report, the NRC counted as
one "abnormal occurrence" accidents at nineteen different reactors.  How do
nineteen accidents become one accident?  Since the nineteen reactors all
had the same design flaw, and since the NRC counts "generic" problems such
as design flaws built into many different reactors as one problem, the
"abnormal occurrence" caused by this design flaw was really only one
accident, even though it occurred at nineteen nuclear power plants in
different locations throughout the country.

 
(Note: if you really consider yourself a cynic, I suggest you pick up a copy
of this book; you might be surprised at your own naivete.

Message: 64747
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Politics
Subject: Cliff
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 06:22:37

 Yes, my friend, you heard me right. It seems that the more the government
gets involved in the lives and functions of the people, the more screwed up
things get.
 As of right now, I wouldn't go so far as to abandon my rights to speak in
primary elections by joining the Libertarian party, but I do, and will
continue, to voice my opinions where I think they might do some good. I have
no qualms about contacting representatives in city, state or federal offices
when I feel a wrong has been done, (or a right for that matter), and seeking
redress or change through the system. To join what is presently such a small
minority is, to me, too much of a sacrifice, one I am not yet willing to
make. 

Message: 64748
Author: $ Paul Savage
Category: Question?
Subject: Zak
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 06:31:01

 What do you think qualifies me to write Hallmark cards?
 Does the job pay well?

Message: 64749
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak/Posts
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 07:05:15

I agree. I will be looking forward to your response.

Message: 64750
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Paul/Hallmark/U & Me
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 07:09:18

We could be a team. Watch, check this out:
 
       I did something
       I shouldn't have
       And now our love's in limbo
       I hope I didn't
       Break your heart
       By sleeping with that bimbo.
       PLEASE FORGIVE ME
 
  (Little birdies on the front, lavender script on blue stock, $1.75)

Message: 64751
Author: $ Roger Mann
Category: Answer!
Subject: cheers/last season?
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 07:40:17

I hadn't heard that this would be the last season. I like the Diane/Sam
relationship better than the Sam/nobody relationship that exists now.
Many of the characters have become caricatured, such as Norm's character.
Mebbe it is a sign of the end. Sigh. Well, anyway there are the reruns.

Message: 64752
Author: John Groseclose
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Zak, again. . .
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 17:00:06

   As per your little comment to Melissa about petting:

"Inexperienced petters should not be allowed to pet, PERIOD DOT."

How would one get experience? Go out and find a trained, licensed petting
instructor?  I for one would like to know how much such an instructor
would be paid, or would it be strictly volunteer?  Would there be new
laws regulating the licensing of said instructors, and also the eligibility
of the students?

   John

Message: 64753
Author: $ Beauregard Dog
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 13-year-old love
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 17:41:43

I agree with Zak. Allowing "people" under 14 to experience the other sex
will only lead to things like this recent shooting of a 13-year-old girl by
her 14-year-old boyfriend.

Message: 64755
Author: $ Daryl Westfall
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John G.
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 18:55:07

Hey, I remember you!

Message: 64756
Author: John Groseclose
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 13-year-old love...
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 19:21:21

Beau, I don't know about you personally, but at 14 I was a member of
the "petters."  I don't see where anyone but those involved, or possibly
the parents of those involved, could have room to make judgement.

As for the 14-year-old that shot his girlfriend, I haven't seen any
evidence that it was anything other than a possibly psychotic youngster
"playing" with a gun he never should have been allowed access to in the
first place.

               John

Message: 64757
Author: John Cummings
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Gun nuts/Zak
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 21:27:16

Zak, WWII was extraordinary from this viewpoint: the American army had
rifles built to shoot straight and tried to train soldiers to do so. With
the M-1, a good soldier could "keep the enemy in his hole at 500 yards, hit
him good at 400, kill him at 300, make it a head shot at 200, and at 100,
call which eye to hit!" We were the only army in the world with that
attitude, and it was a result of the fact that many American boys had .22s
as they grew up, and learned to shoot. We were almost unique in this. Other
armies (except the Germans, who prided themselves on marksmanship) were
mostly young men who had never held a rifle before they were inducted, and
they were trained not to shoot straight, but to lay down a "field of fire"
as if squirting a hose. From this thinking developed the AK47, (designed by
Anton Kalishnikov and accepted by the Russian army as standard infantry
weapon in 1947.) This philosophy of combat depends upon masses of infantry
and exacts grave losses.  The American army fell into this trap with the
M-16, but is now modifying it to be a better weapon and to fire three round
bursts, not as a "Squirt-gun."
        Why does no one comment on the dismal state of teaching of English
in our schools?

Message: 64758
Author: $ Mike Carter
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: English in schools
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 22:49:07

Before I would worry about the state of the teaching of grammar in
our school system, I would fix the school system and its agenda before
I'd worry too much about that. If you are worried for your kids so much,
why don't you teach them YOURSELF?
"Ohh , well, I',m too BUSY.."
Parents seem to quick to judge the school... they seem to think it is the
schools responsibility in its entirety to foster their kids.
Somewhere the parents take this attitude and it bleeds into other aspects
of the childrens upbringing. The focus isn't on the parent, it's on the
school system.
Throw money at the problem .... but it hasn't gone away.
 
And it wont until the brain dammaged idiots who have the kids learn that
having kids also bears the responsibility of educating them properly.
 
You can't BUY education and you can'y BUY and upbringing....you work on it.
 
Quit bitching about the schools!

Message: 64759
Author: Hans Glans
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: schools
Date: 04/13/90  Time: 23:36:03

They are mostly just memorization clinics, with a healthy dose of
repression.

Message: 64760
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Beau/seconds, hours
Date: 04/14/90  Time: 02:49:12

An hour is 1/24th of the earth rotation period.  A minute is 1/60th of an
hour and a second.....just wait a sec.....I'll be right back

Message: 64761
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: John/english
Date: 04/14/90  Time: 02:52:31

That's my fault.  The last year I took english was in the eighth grade but I
was too busy trying to have fun.  I'm learning a bit at a time.  Todd Reese
has helped me with some of my problems but I think that when he found out he
was helping me, he quit...ha, ha.  "Oh well", as one famous Apolloite once
said.

Message: 64762
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: Daryl/criminal
Date: 04/14/90  Time: 02:54:18

Well, if it had been illegal when I was that age I would have been sent to
Alcatraz.  Ah, fond, fond memories.  

Message: 64763
Author: $ Rod Williams
Category: Chit Chat
Subject: 64759/Hans Glans
Date: 04/14/90  Time: 03:06:27

Great statement.  Would you mind if I quote you.....on MANY silk-screened
t-shirts.

By the way, Zak thought up an idea for a t-shirt slogan and for that he will
receive 25 cents for every shirt sold.  The slogan:

                Taxation without representation is tyranny.

                Taxation with representation ain't so hot either.

Great job Zak, may it earn you millions.