AppleLink
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
February 28, 1989    10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic:  Developer Support Issues
Forum Leader:  James Luther (AFL Jim)
 
JSchober   Ugh... and why are they CONFERENCE rooms??
AFL Marty  hi tim
AFA Parik  Alink updated its software today...
THE GIBBER has to go up soon...
AFA Parik  some new features.  like a HELP in downloads, and also a "MORE..."
           instead 
AFA Parik  of that !#*$#* continue button.
AFA Parik  Hi Dopper.
Dopper     HI ALL
AFA Gary J Yeah, Parik.  I like the "More..." instead of "Continue"
THE GIBBER I DID
JSchober   hehehehe... Yeah, I saw the changes, Parik.  Anything else besides
	   those?
AFL TimB   Hey, I haven't seen the changes yet!!
AFL Marty  HI TIM
JSchober   You did??  When??
AFL TimB   :)
JSchober   ;)
AFL TimB   Anyone able to help with a TML Pascal question??????
AFA Parik  Hello Matt.
AFA Gary J Hi Matt.
AFA Parik  Hi Tim & John.
Matt DTS   hello (brb)
AFL TimB   Last time to ask.  Anyone here know TML Pascal Speech toolkit?
AFA John   Evening everyone..
AFA Parik  I've seen it Tim!
JSchober   It's been a LONNNG time, Tim... :|
JSchober   Hi, John.
AFA Parik  It's a bunch of user tools that you use to make speech.  Wait,
	   I've got it
AFA Parik  laying around here SOMEWHERE...
BRCCMAIL   Hi Everyone
JSchober   Rehi John.
AFL Marty  You should stick to BASIC, Tim :)
THE GIBBER Modem droped me again....
AFA Parik  Hi BRCC & John.
JSchober   Hi Jim!  Hi Oli!
AFA Gary J Hi Jim.
AFA Parik  Wow, the first disk I pick out of the box its TML Speech
	   Toolkit...
AFL TimB   Using the Say command, (from  Speechintf) from a GS environemnt/ 
	   I'm having...
AFL TimB   problems.
AFL Jim    Howdy
AFA Parik  Hi Jim.
JSchober   Hi, Etmusta.
AFL Marty  Yeah.... Tim's GS won't speak with a British accent :))
AFL TimB   :)
AFL Jim    BRB
JSchober   LOL Marty...
AFA Parik  Did you put TOOL050, TOOL051, and TOOL052 in the tools
	   subdirectory?
AFA Parik  of your boot disk?
AFA Gary J test
AFL Marty  <can you say "bums"... I knew you could :)>
THE GIBBER "bums"  
AFL TimB   Yup, that's not the problem, it won't compile.  It behaves as if
	   its not ...
AFL Marty  sure
AFL TimB   accessing the Speechintf module.
JSchober   Did you remember including the proper USES Speechintf?
AFL TimB   I cut and pasted the code from Plaintalk, a plain vanilla talking
	   program.
AFA Parik  There goes Jim...
AFA John   Well, I guess your out-of-luck then! :)
Matt DTS   talk about slow nodes, Parik!
JSchober   Jim went off to get another node, I think...
AFA Gary J Jim went for a faster node.
THE GIBBER "And your little node, too :)
AFA Parik  :)
AFA John   your = you're
AFA Parik  This is ridiculous...
AFL TimB   rehi Jim
Matt DTS   No, this is AppleLink.  But that's not important right now.
JSchober   rehi Jim!
AFA Gary J Any better?  :)
AFL Jim    This one may be even slower....
Matt DTS   Jim:  Try it ONE MORE TIME then go on with things.  We're polite. 
	   We'll wait.
AFL Jim    OK, let's get started... if it looks like I'm not here, just
	   remember that
AFL Jim    my signal is being bounced off Mars.
AFA Parik  Mine's being bounced off Dom De Louis...
AFL TimB   :X
AFL Jim    Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. Tonight there is no
	   scheduled topic,
JSchober   Hi Floyd!
AFL Jim    so we're going to talk about developer support issues.
Matt DTS   We are.  Truly.
AFA Parik  Will it cost us any extra money?  :)
AFL TimB   :)
AFL Floyd  Hi all.
THE GIBBER Wait.... I have my visa and a bank loan :)
JSchober   $600, Parik, that's all...
AFL Jim    Floyd: we _were_ going to have an auditorium event, but it was
	   canceled.
Whistles   Hello there?
JSchober   Hi, Whistles.
AFL Marty  You're outta luck with $2.38 Joe :)
AFL Jim    Matt and I would like to find out what you think about a few ideas
	   that are
Dave Lyons Is that aud event rescheduled, by the way?
JSchober   I know, that's why I'm not a developer anymore... yo Vince!
AFL Jim    being tossed around in Apple Developer Technical Support.
Whistles   Jim how's the weather on the coast, You left KC just in time!
AFA Parik  keep going...
AFL Jim    I might be, Dave - it hasn't been yet.
AFL Jim    Matt, would you like to start out?
Matt DTS   No.  Go ahead.
AFL Jim    (I=It)
AFL Jim    Hmmm.. you know more about what was said last night...
Matt DTS   But I don't want to start, and you *did* ask.
Matt DTS   (It's such fun to annoy Jim like this.)
AFL Jim    Should I order him?
AFL Jim    :)
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Vince  now boys..........
AFA Parik  It must be FUN working with Matt...:)
Coach101   Try tossing a coin fellas
AFL TimB   GA Jim
AFA Gary J Go Matt!
JSchober   LOL... :)
AFL Marty  ----====$
AFL Jim    Besides... you can type faster, Matt
Matt DTS   Oh, all right <geez Louise>...
JSchober   (hey, Marty, if you're going to throw money, throw it this
	   way....>
Matt DTS   Realizing that Apple II AppleLink - Apple Edition (that's the one
	   we're not...
AFA Parik  LOL...//roll for it....:)
Matt DTS   ...using) is, in the words of David Szetela, "unconscionably
	   bad"...
Matt DTS   ...we in Developer Services (and Apple II DTS in particular) are
	   exploring...
Matt DTS   ...alternative ways of supporting the developer community
	   on-line.
Matt DTS   This would probably mean accepting AIIDTS E-mails on services
	   other than...
Matt DTS   ...AppleLink Apple Edition and MCI Mail, and could go so far as
	   to...
AFA Parik  heh, the DTS BBS...
THE GIBBER lol
Matt DTS   ...duplicate the entire Developer Services folder (a few megs of
	   information)..
Matt DTS   ...from AppleLink Apple Edition to another service.  The first
	   question is:
Matt DTS   What do you all think of expanding to AppleLink Personal
	   Edition?
HiddenLine !
AFA Parik  !
JSchober   ()()()()()  <=== do it Carson style... :)
THE GIBBER !
AFL Vince  GO FOR IT!
Dave Lyons Go for it!
Matt DTS   (we fully well realize this may be a biased audience.)
AFL Floyd  Yeah!
THE GIBBER Go Fer it, Dude
JSchober   Biased?  US??  Nahhhh...
AFL Vince  Easier operation, and cheeper daytime access... :)
Matt DTS   (The GEnie crowd last night didn't seem to like the idea at
	   all.)
HiddenLine I think it's a splendid idea!:)))))))))))))
Whistles   tell us more?
Dave Lyons :)  Nahhhh....
Matt DTS   Jim - I suggest protocol so you can get everyone's comments. 
	   (Sorry, but...
THE GIBBER I don't see why the Genie Crowd didn't like it.........:)
Matt DTS   ...I don't want anyone lost.)
AFL Jim    OK, WE'll use protocol.
AFA Gary J Q = (HiddenLine, Parik, Gibber)
AFL Jim    HiddenLine, a comment? GA
HiddenLine I really like the idea, when I talked to Jim this afternoon, he
	   mentioned the
HiddenLine idea, and at first I was doubtful, but comparing this software to
	   the ALAE
AFL TimB   ?
HiddenLine software will make this system a prime target for everyone who
	   develops on
AFA Gary J Q = (Hiddenline, Parik, Gibber), Tim
HiddenLine Apples! It will bring better support than ever before... IMHO...
	   GA
AFL Jim    Parik, you're up.. GA
AFA Parik  I think its a great idea, maybe a little unfair to the other
	   services though.
AFA Parik  but who said life's fair.  Would it be easier to do that or to
	   rewrite the
AFA Parik  interface/modem updates on the APAE software?  ga
AFA Parik  (you are after all the best programmers for the Apple :)
AFL Jim    I don't think the APAE software will be rewritten...
Matt DTS   Let's start by listing the evils of the Apple Edition software:
AFA Gary J Neither will the ALAE software  :)
HiddenLine (OH BOY!!!:))
AFA Parik  sorry, not enough time today Matt. :)
Matt DTS   1.  It's in Pascal.  It can only access 3.5 and 5.25" drives, and
	   the first...
Matt DTS   ...drive always has to contain the program disk.
Matt DTS   2.  It doesn't use clocks or clock cards.
AFA Gary J Q = (Gibber), Tim
Matt DTS   3.  It saves AppleWorks files that fall apart if you type in
	   them.
Matt DTS   4.  It can only handle 15K or less memos and messages.
Matt DTS   5.  It only transfers AppleWorks disk files.
Matt DTS   6.  It barely supports non-Apple equipment (modems, interfaces,
	   etc.)
Matt DTS   7.  It's just basically depressing to use.
Matt DTS   (that's it.)  Making something useful and good out of it could
	   add...
Matt DTS   ...20 years to some poor soul's life, where ALPE is already useful
	   and good.
AFA Parik  sounds like a plan then to me...
Matt DTS   And the time to rewrite it, test it and implement it could be over
	   a year.
AFL Jim    John, you're back, so GA
Matt DTS   I think letting it die is a noble thing. 
AFA Gary J Q = (Gibber), Tim
THE GIBBER Geez....Got dumped again :(    5th time tonight
Matt DTS   It's a Sign.
AFL Jim    GA Gib
THE GIBBER I like the idea of more developer support on applelink Pe... if
	   DOES happen
THE GIBBER What sorts of support are we talking...  The folders and all the
	   rest and 
THE GIBBER Hopefully ONLINE ordering??????
THE GIBBER ga
Coach101   ?
Matt DTS   Unknown.  We're just soliciting opinions at this point.
Matt DTS   On-line ordering of developer hardware is something I don't really
	   expect...
JSchober   (sheesh, Matt, didn't you see the NO SOLICITING sign when you
	   walked in??)
Matt DTS   ...ever to see.  Online APDA ordering is certainly possible if not
	   probable.
AFA Gary J Q = Tim, Coach
AFA Parik  :) Joe
AFL Jim    GA Tim
AFL TimB   What did the GEnie users dislike about the idea? :)
AFA Gary J :)
Matt DTS   There's a fear (expressed by me) that if we can't pull it ALL
	   off...
Matt DTS   ...in other words, if we can't get the entire Developer Services
	   BB from...
Matt DTS   ...AppleLink Apple Edition duplicated anywhere else, that the
	   Apple II Devs...
Matt DTS   ...could get a feeling of "second-class citizenship".
AFA Parik  you can do it...just think about the little train that could...
Matt DTS   (Also, a key factor is some way for AppleLink Apple Edition and
	   AppleLink PE...
JSchober   :)
Matt DTS   ...to have a mail interface, so that Developers on here could
	   contact anyone...
AFA Gary J Q = Coach
Matt DTS   ...at Apple through E-mail.  That's a primary advantage of
	   AppleLink which...
AFL Vince  Interlink for Quantum would solve that.
Matt DTS   ...would need to happen for us to go through with this.)  GA
AFL TimB   I suspect that it is unlikely that AE and PE will be
	   interconnected if that's..
AFL TimB   what you're thinking about.
Matt DTS   I don't know about "interconnected" - I'd settle for a mail
	   gateway.
Matt DTS   If we can duplicate the board and transport the mail, we've got it
	   down.
AFL Jim    Coach, GA
Coach101   With everyone on ALPE, 1) would that be too much more traffic
	   for
Coach101   ALPE (it is not hte fastest now) and 2) how would you distinguish
	   between
AFL Vince  !
Coach101   CDs (under their new name) and others (two citizenship classes on
	   ALPE?)  GA
Matt DTS   Jim - you take this one.
AFA Gary J Q = Coach (Vince)
AFL Jim    I think Quantum is prepared for a much heaver load than what we
	   have now.
AFL TimB   :)
Matt DTS   Heave...HO!  Heaver...HOR!e
AFA Gary J :)
AFL Jim    I'm not sure what can be done to identify paying from non-paying
	   developers,
AFA Parik  !
AFL Jim    but I'm sure something would be done.
AFL Jim    Vince, a comment?
AFL Jim    ga
AFA Gary J Q = Coach (Vince, Parik)
AFL Vince  One benifit is that the overall cost would be cheeper since access
	   time on ALPE's networks is 
AFL Vince  cheeper than GEISCO.  Also, since most developers work during the
	   day, I dont think system load would
AFL Vince  be a problem here.  It's pretty fast during the day most of the
	   time.
AFL Vince  GA
AFA Parik  You could give paying developers a free ALPE account and have a
	   identifying
AFA Parik  prefix (ie, DEV) which only developers can use.  [Quantum can
	   reserve letter
AFA Parik  combos in a name] GA
AFL Vince  Why identify the accounts at all.  Most companies would benifit by
	   using a secondary name for 
AFL Vince  marketing purposes.
AFL Marty  !
AFA Parik  For official questions though... 
AFL Vince  They're not here to answer questions, Parik. They're here to ask
	   them..  :)
AFA Parik  exactly :)
AFL Jim    Marty, GA
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Marty)
AFL Marty  You identify accounts for the purpose of maintaining an access
	   list....
AFL Marty  if message boards can be restricted to those appearing on an
	   access list...
AFL Marty  (they can), so can an Email gateway. GA
AFL Vince  valid point
AFA Parik  very.
AFL Jim    Anyone have any more comments?
AFL TimB   That's why they pay Marty the big bucks!
AFL Vince  it also solves any problems relating to keeping a message base
	   private... prices, etc..
AFL Marty  ha!
AFA Parik  :)
AFA Parik  everyone's node die?
AFL Vince  I think ALPE can handle it... the question is will it alienate the
	   other services?
AFL Jim    OK, I'd like to get some other opinions. What would you like to
	   see Apple II
Coach101   !
AFL Marty  !
THE GIBBER No....My node is just stuffed up ;)
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Coach, Marty)
AFL Jim    DTS supply on ALPE and other information services that we aren't
	   supplying now
AFL Jim    IF this WERE NOT to take place? (How can we help?)
AFA Parik  free food, parties, & women for starters...
Dave Lyons !
JSchober   LOL
AFL Vince  Jim...  how much support is DTS planning to give to non
	   Partner/Associate members?
HiddenLine !
AFL Marty  (not necessarily in that order)
AFA Parik  yup :)
Coach101   Who sets Parik's priorities?
AFA Gary J Q = Jim (Dave, HiddenLine), Vince (Coach, Marty)
Dave Lyons I want The Information Exchange in Apple II-readable format.
AFL Jim    We plan on putting out lots of Tech Notes and Source Code
	   Samples.
AFA Parik  Whats wrong with the binder version Dave?
AFA Gary J Not MPW
AFL Jim    We're also looking into a question and answer database.
AFL Jim    PROTOCOL!
AFL Jim    Dave, GA
Dave Lyons The problem is the Binder has no "Find" command.  :)
Dave Lyons And it takes up shelf space.
Dave Lyons (ga)
AFA Gary J Q = Jim (Dave, HiddenLine), Vince (Coach, Marty)
AFL Jim    HiddenLine, GA
HiddenLine I think Dave has hit the nail right on the head with his
	   Information Exchange
AFL TimB   {_}-------
AFL TimB    T
HiddenLine comment.. to add mine... I think if AIIDTS doesn't come to
	   AppleLink Pe.. the
HiddenLine next best thing would be to allow certified developers that are on
	   AppleLink
AFA Gary J Q = Jim (HiddenLine), Vince (Coach)
HiddenLine the ability to save some money by answering techincal questions
	   here.. I...
HiddenLine realize that you guys have your hands full keeping up with all the
	   mail you
HiddenLine get now, but the name of the game is support-regardless of where
	   the question
HiddenLine comes from... GA
AFL Jim    OK, Vince GA
AFL Vince  I think this queue entry was in relation to an earlier comment
	   about this move possibly alienating
AFL Vince  the other services...  wondering your opinion more than anything
	   else.  GA
AFL Marty  !
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Coach, Marty)
AFL Jim    My opinion: the more places we support, the better off the
	   developer community 
AFL Jim    will be, BUT we in DTS have to be able to keep up with the
	   resources we
AFL Jim    currently have.
AFL Jim    Coach, ga
Dave Lyons !
Coach101   As for alienating the other networks, if Apple has to pick
Coach101   a primary network to provide support via, it would seem
	   appropriate
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Coach, Marty, Dave)
Coach101   that it be AL? .  The fewer "services" that DTS has to scan to
	   find
Coach101   wquestions the less time will be spent getting in and out of
Coach101   networks and data bases!  In general, the whole idea sounds like
	   it
Coach101   would benefit all concerned (except those with other network
	   accesses
Coach101   that have not yet gotten to ALPE).  A positive move in my
	   opinion..  GA
AFL Jim    Marty, GA
AFL Marty  My first reaction was "who cares?"... I am not being completely
	   frivolous...
AFL Marty  in saying this however...
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Marty, Dave)
AFL Vince  (Agree, Coach)
AFL Marty  where else would anyone expect to find developer support if not on
	   the...
AFL Marty  system which bears Apple's name and the AppleLink logo?... also
AFL Marty  there is some precedent for doing something like this... witness
	   the ...
AFL Marty  embracing of ByteWorks (via APW) as an example...
AFL Marty  Of course, the best of all possible alternatives would be to
	   have
AFL Marty  DTS available on all the major services. GA
AFL Jim    Dave, GA
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Dave)
Dave Lyons I think it'd be nice for DTS to accept official questions _from
	   the same
Dave Lyons people that ask them now_.  That wouldn't increate the load on DTS
	   much.
Dave Lyons (ga)
Dave Lyons (I mean CDs...the people that can ask official questions now.)
Matt DTS   We know what that meant, but what the heck is "increate"?
AFL Jim    That's what I thought you meant, Dave.
AFL Vince  increased typed in dracoease
Dave Lyons Oh, "increate" has something to do with Greece, I think.
AFA Gary J LOL!
Matt DTS   ugh>
Guy Rice   :)
Matt DTS   Is that trailer right?
AFL Jim    Pay no attention to the BANNER on your screen....
AFA Parik  :)
Guy Rice   I thought those were worms... :)
AFL Jim    Wyme
Matt DTS   Nearly out of time, gang.
JSchober   Wrym...  ;)
Dave Lyons Seems like the organizers of events should have the ability to
	   send out
Dave Lyons correct wyrms real-time, instead of whatever the procedure is now.
	   Ick.
AFL Vince  What more do you need to know, Matt?
Matt DTS   I don't need any more; I was just pointing out that we're almost
	   done.
JSchober   I think Cust Rep can change 'em on the fly if a person with
	   sufficient ...
JSchober   authority requests it... I =think=...
AFL Vince  ah ha..  :)
HeckOfAGuy The wyrms are programed in advance and are difficult to change
AFA Gary J Oh Heck!
AFA Parik  :)
JSchober   (well, so much for my genius... %)
HeckOfAGuy Hi Gary
AFL Jim    OK, thanks for the comments.
AFL Marty  (guess you should find someone difficult to change it then :)
HeckOfAGuy :)
AFA Parik  I think the best thing would be for DTS to fly people to Cupertino
	   and let
AFL Jim    Does anyone have any pressing programming questions tonight that
	   they'd like
AFA Parik  them ask questions themselves face to face...
AFL Jim    to discuss?
Dave Lyons That shouldn't be too hard around here....
Guy Rice   :)
JSchober   LOL Parik
AFA Gary J Yes, Parik.  Right  :)
HeckOfAGuy programming questions in a Dev forum?
AFL Vince  Why wont my GS go fast?
AFL Vince   :)
AFL Marty  I'd rather have the free women, Parik :)
Dave Lyons (Finding difficult people shouldn't be too had, I mean.)
Matt DTS   Slow operator.  Next question?
AFL Jim    Right, HeckOf...
AFL Vince  :)
AFA Parik  WHat Marty?  You'd rather party with women than with matt & Jim? 
	   hehehe
AFA Gary J Vince, that IS a programming question.  Switch to assembly.
HeckOfAGuy What about you Parik, would you?
AFA Parik  any day...
AFL Marty  Tough decision... but yes (and the dumber she is the better :)
AFA Parik  No offense.  :)
HiddenLine LOL!
Matt DTS   Well, barring any pressing needs, I'm gonna bid y'all good
	   night.
Dave Lyons Print manager!  Anybody figured out why my little procedure isn't
	   working?
JSchober   'Night, Matt.  :)
AFL Jim    Which little procedure?
AFA Parik  Night Matt.
HiddenLine Night, Matt.
AFL Jim    Later, Matt
Coach101   If "she" has system talent, who cares if she programs?
Matt DTS   I didn't read it.  It looked suspiciously high-level to me. 
	   G'night.
HeckOfAGuy Seeya Matt
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Matt.
AFL Vince  prestigous?
Dave Lyons In the Print Manager folder of Apple IIGS Toolbox in Let's
	   Discuss.  (I haven't
Dave Lyons checked it today.)
JSchober   No, Vince, prestigious.
AFL Jim    I haven't either.
AFL Vince  :)
Dave Lyons I can tell I'm gonna have to add Print Manager data structures to
	   the list of
Dave Lyons things that Nifty List can dump (with ";").
AFL Marty  Think I'll go get some prestige :)
AFA Gary J There weren't any new answers, Dave.
AFL Vince  Me too, Marty...
AFA Parik  Bye Marty & Vince... 
HiddenLine Dave, I have another strange idea for Nifty List..
JSchober   Night Vince, Marty...
Dave Lyons Shoot, HL!
HiddenLine This one is kinda useful..How about the ability to interactively
	   define define
JSchober   Hi, Mike.
Dave Lyons Howdy, Mike L.
HiddenLine got me shaken.. your own data structures... like format the
	   output? Is that
AFA Parik  Hi Mike!
HiddenLine possible?
Dave Lyons Something like that would be nice...are you thinking about data
	   structures that
Dave Lyons you would dump like the ";" does, for ";W" or ";P" (windows and
	   ports)?  Or
Dave Lyons do you mean something more complicated (recognizing inline
	   parameters for
Dave Lyons certain subroutine calls, or something I haven't thought of)?
HiddenLine Well, something like  outputformat=8,4,8.. Where the numbers
	   indicate the
Mike Lutz  Hi Brccmail, HiddenLine, Floyd, Jim, HeckOfAGuy, Guy Rice, Parik,
	   JSchober...
HeckOfAGuy Hi Mike
Mike Lutz  Dave L., and Gary J!
HiddenLine width of a field and all a use does is supply a range of addresses
	   to dump..
Guy Rice   Hi Mike.  :)
HiddenLine simple, but I think it would be a good thing to have when I'm
	   looking at my
HiddenLine own data. GA
AFA Gary J Hi Mike
Dave Lyons Hmmm...that's a start, but it'd be much more useful if you could
	   specify that
Dave Lyons some of those 4-byte things were pointers to C-strings or
	   P-strings, or class-1
Dave Lyons GS/OS strings, or class-1 GS/OS result buffers, or rectangles, or
	   regions...
Dave Lyons in other words, something powerful enough that the existing ";P"
	   and ";W" 
Dave Lyons dumps would just be built-in templates.
HiddenLine Ok.. that's taking it one step further than I thought you would
	   care to go, 
HiddenLine but if it's possible, I'd like to see it.  It really makes looking
	   at dumps
HiddenLine easier! Thanks!
Dave Lyons Probably I'll get something like that implemented in the next
	   month or two--I'm
Dave Lyons making the data file format much more general, and I'm allowing
	   there to be
Dave Lyons more than one data file.  Coming up with a template for data
	   structures is
Dave Lyons definitely a good idea.  I'll also be adding "modules" (people
	   will be able to
Dave Lyons write their own Nifty List commands, and they'll be able to pick
	   and choose
Dave Lyons which modules they want to keep in their machine, so they don't
	   waste memory
AFA Gary J Great!
Dave Lyons with new things I write for it that they don't need).  Like Big
	   Brother, which
JSchober   Neat!  Making a terrific program BETTER??  I wanna SEE this...
Dave Lyons will slow things down a LOT and be used only when you're debugging
	   things.
HiddenLine That is FANTASTIC!!! 
Dave Lyons You'll see it!  Don't know exactly WHEN, yet!
JSchober   :))))
JSchober   That's fine... it sounds terrific!!
HiddenLine <-----been dumping a lot, in the past week...
Dave Lyons By the way, writing things like DIcEd is about 3 times more
	   profitable for me
Dave Lyons than things like Nifty List.  :(  On the other hand, I _used_
	   Nifty List to
AFL Floyd  You should make Nifty List a commercial product once you add all
	   that stuff.
Dave Lyons help me develop DIcEd.
AFL Jim    I agree with Floyd.
Dave Lyons Maybe I should...there are other options I'm considering, too,
	   which I suppose
AFA Gary J Me too.
HiddenLine Floyd, I agree.  And thanks for the stuff you sent me! I
	   appreciate it!
AFL Floyd  What stuff?
Dave Lyons I shouldn't bring up until it looks like they could happen.
HiddenLine <---Scott...  the gimme stuff, and the contacting companies stuff!
	   Really will
HiddenLine come in handy!
AFL Floyd  Oh.  I didn't know it was you. ;)
JSchober   "stuff"... technical terms are wonderful....
AFL Floyd  Your welcome.
AFL Floyd  Did ya ever hear the "stuff" skit by George Carlin?  Hilarious!
JSchober   Nope.  :(
HiddenLine One more little suggestion, Dave... Any thought about making Nifty
	   List..
HiddenLine programmable from the command line (ie not through files?)
Dave Lyons Programmable in what way?  Do you mean being able to accomplish
	   the same things
Dave Lyons you can by editing the data files in a text editor, or something
	   more, like
Dave Lyons a script language?
Dave Lyons (I _do_ intend to add the ability to evaluate "expression" from
	   the command
HiddenLine Kinda like a script language.. would that make it too big and
	   complex? 
Dave Lyons line--this would include arithmetic operators and toolbox
	   calls!)
Dave Lyons A script language would not necessarily make it bulky...what sorts
	   of things
Dave Lyons do you want to be able to do?
HiddenLine What I mean.. is something like this..   Dumpmemory
	   (range)|format(Handle),..
AFL Jim    Dave, I'd just like you to add disk support, so I can save what I
	   see.
HiddenLine Dumpmemory(range)|Format(special=xxxxxx), etc... things like that
	   ...
HiddenLine GA
JSchober   I agree with Jim...
HiddenLine Same here..
AFL Jim    (and fix the screen dump :)
Dave Lyons Jim, you want to be able to redirect output to a text file, or
	   something
Dave Lyons more complicated than that?
AFL Jim    What you just said
Dave Lyons Oh!  Actually, I forgot to say I've just released Nifty List 2.60;
	   not terribly
JSchober   Nope, Dave, that would be great... :))
AFA Gary J Where, Dave?
Dave Lyons exciting, but it _does_ fix the screen dump of inverse/mousetext
	   characters.
AFA Gary J Anything new in it?
Dave Lyons I said "released," not "uploaded."  :-)   Some recent DIcEd
	   customers have
Dave Lyons their disks in the mail w/ NL2.60 on there, and I'll upload it
	   tonight.
Dave Lyons New features:
Dave Lyons The ";" command remembers the last option you used, and subsequent
	   ";"s (with
Dave Lyons blanks, end-of-line, or other ";"s after them) default to that
	   option.  So
AFL Jim    (I can finally rid myself of Diversi-Hack)
Dave Lyons you can go ;;;;; to continue your last hex or ascii dump, or
	   whatever, and
Dave Lyons you can do things like 5/1000;a;;;; instead of 5/1000;a;a;a;a;a
Dave Lyons I already said the Apple-H was fixed; the only other additions are
	   to the
Dave Lyons Status command (S):  it displays the GET_LEVEL setting under P16
	   or GS/OS;
AFL Floyd  <Great.  I hated doing ;h;h;h;h> ;)
AFA Gary J Me too!
Dave Lyons it displays GET_SYS_PREFS and SESSION_STATUS under GS/OS; it
	   displays your
Dave Lyons ROM version (not too exciting, at least for most of us); and it
	   displays the
Dave Lyons values of all NON-NULL prefixes from 0 to 31.
Dave Lyons That's all for 2.60.  My to-do list is impressively long, though.
	   :)
JSchober   Hmmm... sounds good.  We gonna get monthly updates or something?? 
	   :)
AFA Gary J I like it, Dave.  :)
Dave Lyons Monthly?  We'll see....
AFA Gary J heheh
HiddenLine Dave, I hope you didn't take my "suggestions" the wrong way..I
	   love Nifty List!